Why is South Dakota’s suicide rate double that of New York? According to new research from the Boston University School of Public Health, the youth portion of our sad outpacing of our urban neighbors is tied to all the guns we have around the house:
A state’s rate of gun ownership accounted for 55 percent of the differences seen from one state to another, the team found.
…In Alaska, for instance, the youth suicide rate is 15.2 suicides per 100,000 people aged 19 and under. Just under 60 percent of households have guns. In South Dakota, the suicide rate is 14.9 per 100,000 and again, just under 60 percent of homes had guns in 2004.
In New York and New Jersey, the youth suicide rate is 2.7 and 2.6 per 100,000. In New York, 18.5 percent of households had guns and in New Jersey, 11.4 percent did.
“This study demonstrates that the strongest single predictor of a state’s youth suicide rate is the prevalence of household gun ownership in that state,” [Dr. Michael] Siegel said [Maggie Fox, “State-by-State Study Links Gun Ownership with Youth Suicide,” NBC News, 2019.01.17].
Own fewer guns, fewer kids kill themselves. Seems pretty simple.
The study found the only other factors showing clear association with youth suicide rates were the suicide attempt rate (um, duh) and the percentage of youth who are Native American. Given how we treat our American Indian neighbors, that association should surprise no one.
Meanwhile, every bill filed with the South Dakota Legislature this year (seven so far: HB 1041, HB 1054, HB 1056, SB 9, SB 38, SB 47, SB 50) would make it easier to get one’s hands on a gun and/or tote one around.
While we have seven bills expanding gun privileges, we have one bill (SB 8) seeking to expand a mental health hotline and one resolution (SCR 2) to create five task forces to study mental health services. Neither of those measures mentions suicide specifically.
But why worry? Pass the guns, and trust God to sort everything out.
If memory serves about the youth suicides on the Pine Ridge Reservation it seems that most were either by hanging or overdoses.
A friend suggested that teen boys committed suicide by hanging and teen girls by overdoses.
This isn’t public health data, simply my memory finally engaging a bit.
Over the past few years, the young’uns have debated various sorts of gun topics. This point is an argument that was frequently run. From Harvard Public Health,
“Though guns are not the most common method by which people attempt suicide, they are the most lethal. About 85 percent of suicide attempts with a firearm end in death. (Drug overdose, the most widely used method in suicide attempts, is fatal in less than 3 percent of cases.) Moreover, guns are an irreversible solution to what is often a passing crisis. Suicidal individuals who take pills or inhale car exhaust or use razors have time to reconsider their actions or summon help. With a firearm, once the trigger is pulled, there’s no turning back.”
I can’t find the full card quickly, but if memory serves, we had a stat about how guns are used in 35-40% of the attempts. (Someone can feel free to check out that number and use a reputable source to correct me.)
I testified against SB 47 at its committee hearing this past Thursday morning. This is the bill introduced by Senator Greenfield that would allow Permitless Carry, or “constitutional carry” as its proponents have euphemistally termed it in order to, I suspect, make it more palatable.
While I discussed the trauma of my own experience with gun violence, I made it clear that my opposition wasn’t just based on emotion, but also fact. I shared statistics from Missouri and Arizona, showing increases in violent crimes and assaults involving guns after those states passed Permitless carry.
I tried to convey that the majority of those of us against this bill, and for common-sense gun legislation, are not gun grabbers out to take away and ban everyone’s guns. We are not against gun ownership or gun owners, many of us own guns ourselves. I said that I appreciated that we have a citizens legislature, unlike my home state where the legislature is year-round and the Capitol isn’t nearly as open to the public as ours is. A citizens legislature is supposed to be more open to its constituents’ wishes, so I discussed a survey taken last year by an independent polling firm and published in the Argus Leader, that showed that 83 percent of South Dakotans do not approve of Permitless carry.
I was pleased that reps for the state’s sheriff’s and prosecutor’s organizations also spoke against it. All of this testimony did seem to have an impact, as several on the committee asked some good questions and, in the end, it only passed out of committee by one vote.
The full vote on the bill will be Tuesday and, unfortunately, I think it’s likely to pass, as it did last year; Dauggard’s veto is what stopped its implementation into law. However, we won’t be so lucky this time as Noem will surely sign it.
I will say that it was interesting to finally see Sen. Nelson in action in person. He’s quieter and taller than I’d expected. In his speech in support of the bill, he discussed several biblical verses and how his interpretation of them provide support for his position. As I recently graduated from seminary with both Master of Divinity and M.A. in Theology and the Arts degrees, I found that interesting as I do not share those interpretations. I didn’t get the chance to discuss it with him, however.
I was incredibly nervous just before my testimony, (a page even had to show me how to turn my microphone on, Lol), but grew much more confident and resolved as I spoke. And I felt exhilarated afterwards; there’s something about such hands-on participation in the legislative process that brings that feeling on. More citizens should engage in such participation.
Thank you for speaking up Leslie.
I appreciate your courage to testify Laurisa. I did so once many years ago on a topic of a very personal nature and was extremely nervous. It’s not easy.
A friend and ordained Lutheran pastor, Rev. Nancy Nord Bence, is the executive director of Protect Minnesota, an organization that works to do that very thing, make Minnesotans safer. Like you Laurisa, they have no wish to take anyone’s gun, except people who have a court ordered restraining order or other special circumstance usually referred to as a “red flag.” And like South Dakotans, a large majority of Minnesotans strongly support reasonable gun laws.
The following is a sterling example of just how out of whack the SD lege is:
“Meanwhile, every bill filed with the South Dakota Legislature this year (seven so far: HB 1041, HB 1054, HB 1056, SB 9, SB 38, SB 47, SB 50) would make it easier to get one’s hands on a gun and/or tote one around.” Cory
I guess whatever Kochs/ALEC/NRA want, they get. Good citizens of SD, you’ll have to wait your turn waaaaay back at the end of the line. Big guys with more $ will always cut in front of you too, with the SDGOP’s encouragement.
You get the government you vote for.
Since i can not be present to offer testimony permission to post these comments is Granted by Robert Kolbe.
There are few if any people in So. Dak. that grew up in a house hold that had more weapons than our home. My father collected as well as delt in firearms. He had a FFL, Federal Firearms License for 50 years. Those were the days when it took something to acquire them. Not as today.
My father was as I am a life member of the NRA, National Rifle Association. His montra consisted of Two Admonitions , EVERY GUN IS LOADED,and YOU NEVER POINT A GUN AT ANY THING YOU DO NOT WANT TO SHOOT.
Guns are Power. Too many people treat them a an equalizer. They are metal testosterone. Thus the NRA statement over looks the first half of the Second Amendment, they emphasize THE RIGHT OF PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS ,SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. This does not support those that support “Constitutional Carry”.
Why not , well here are the words that proceed and are the beginning of the Second Amendment. A WELL REGULATED MILITIA,BEING NECESSARY TO THE SECURITY OF A FREE STATE
the right———- ( see second half above).
The history of second amendment that 99% of the people do not know goes back to( of course) pre adoption days. There were states that were concerned that the central government could march in and take over,also these were pirate days and other foreign governments could attack them . These states wanted assurance that They Could Protect Themselves. Thus A Well Regulated Militia. That has morphed into Our National Guard.
Antone Scalia U S Supreme Court Justice stated that the Second Amendment is N OT Beyond Regulation…
Now for those who support Constitutional Carry.
How many people who reads this say, I do not want that S.O.B . to be able to carry a concealed weapon? Lets carry this further How Many of OUR Legislators would you or I trust to have a Concealed Weapon? Would you trust even our Governor?
We have Law Enforcement , people that are trained in use of weapons, and there are unfortunately mistakes made. Now how many people take and re up training in the use of fire arms?
Guns do not Kill People, People with Guns Kill people. So people kill people with poison, knives, cars ,dynamite and even empty bottles. (etc.) When was the last time there was amass Killing with any of the above?
There is a great article published as an Editorial in Deadwood in the Black Hills Pioneer July 13,1876.
—-On the other hand it can not be assumed that because a man posses a pistol,that he is qualified as judge,jury and executioner. ——- Surely we do not have to wait for the tragic murder of some valued citizen or citizens before we organize to halt this indiscriminate shooting and brawling. It can not be expected that the law of the pistol will be either just or reasonable.
Again do you want any one or every one to be carrying a concealed weapon ? How much would you bet there is a NO CARRY POLICY IN THE STATE CAPITOL!
Constitutional Concealed Carry is at least Two steps back in Civilization.
The second amendment does not say “no relegation”. Ban all semi automatic pistols, rifles and shotguns.Only legal firearms for the public allowed are those which carry 6 rounds or less in revolvers and bolt,lever and pump action rifles.Four round limit in bolt, lever or pump shotguns.
Its a compromise as it doesn’t stop concealed carry fools with their fantasies nor will it stop all the suicides. Definitely slow down mass shootings and if your wish is to fire semi or automatic weapons, give the military a call. They might even send you where you can fulfill your fantasy.
Thanks for that testimony, Robert. And don’t forget: contrary to the sponsors’ propaganda line but coherent with your statement, cibvet’s, and Justice Scalia’s explanation, concealing a weapon on one’s person is not a Constitutional right.
Laurisa, thank you for your testimony! You evidently got legislators to ask questions and think about their vote. Your in-person testimony is a model for all citizens who want to stand up, be heard, and participate in government.
Alas, as Laurisa says, if this bill survives the Senate, it will likely sail through the even more conservative (some would say wacky) House.
When was the last time there was amass Killing with any of the above?
No offense, but, yesterday it was reported an Oregon man killed 4 people, including a 9 month old baby, with possibly a sword and was shot by police as he attempted to kill 2 more victims.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/man-who-murdered-4-in-oregon-home-trying-to-kill-child-shot-dead-by-deputies-police-say
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/27/world/asia/china-attack-school-knife.html
In China here have been numerous knife attacks on school children. Nobody seems to know why.
China does not have a bill of rights worth a damn. (I included this because I read it in a book somewhere and thought it was neat) paraphrased
Let’s not forget militias were used to enforce slavery under predessor 2nd amendment laws so written.
Personally, I reached out to Sens Adelstein and Tseitsen (former police chief) after our family’s suicide; and even Sen Hennies ( a year earlier) was contacted concerning my child’s theft of a handgun from a rally hotel room as a maid. The boss was watching. NRA trained in hunter safety, we hunted and shot targets together. I grew up too in a house full of hunting guns, ammo loading and skeet. I soured on cruel prairie dog shooting myself in junior high school with high velocity rounds used by a relative.
My senior, with birthday cash I gave, bought a military assault rifle from Scheels, 1000 rounds somewhere, and applied for a concealed carry permit, all without my knowledge, kept in the trunk in a portable chair tote-bag. Young friends and some of their parents participated at a target range somewhere. Within a month the last bullet was used for suicide. A depression diagnosis was rendered that last month. The destruction was complete, for my child and the rest of the family. This young person attended State moot honors political program that spring, could have waited on your table, and the concealed carry permit was mailed after death. Native friends participated in ceremonial sweats.
A brilliant young person. But who also used drugs and alcohol with high school and church school friends. ISP was on the CD player in the car.
In his classic stupidity, Sen Stace Nelson questioned the veracity of this account here in a previous thread.
So sorry for your horrendous loss, Leslie. My heart broke when I read your story.
Thanks Porter. I only tell the account as young legislators like Dennert do not have the knowledge to understand the impact of NRA policy on real people, and others cannot conceive the depth of the loss without experiencing it that close. Reasonable gun regulation is just that. Republicans advocate laws which have lost any anchor in rationality. By purpose. Since 1964 and the Goldwater years. The GOP must be checked.
I see that Rep. Sue Peterson and Sen. Lynn DiSanto have brought HB 1056 to protect people’s right to leave guns lying around in unlocked vehicles. Sioux Falls thought about bringing an ordinance to prohibit that, but HB 1056 says that no city or county can infringe the rights of gun owners to leave their guns lying around wherever and whenever they want. Whew! Careless gun owners dodged a bullet there. Whoever said that rights should carry responsibilities didn’t understand the South Dakota way.
Wait until gangbangers start openly carrying arsenals. See how long before that law gets changed. Gawd, the stoopid is strong in Pierre.
So even though the strongest predictor of teen suicide is the easy availability of guns, even though tragic stories like Leslie’s are not extremely rare, even though the SDGOP could act to protect people more effectively, they’re pushing these Let’s-make-it-easier-for-kids-to-kill-themselves-while-gun-manufacturers-get-richer laws.
The rot and shame oozes from the pores of the SDGOP on this.
Today the NRA tweeted“Today, the men and women of the @NRA honor the profound life and legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Dr. King applied for a concealed carry permit in a “may issue” state and was denied. We will never stop fighting for every law-abiding citizen’s right to self-defense. #MLKDay”
I expect a few proponents of permitless carry supporters to cite this example tomorrow
It’s important to remember that King changed his mind.
“In 2001’s ‘The Autobiography of Martin Luther King,’ a book cobbled together from King’s writing and speeches by Clayborne Carson, director of Stanford University’s Martin Luther King, Jr., Research and Education Institute, King wrote, ‘I was much more afraid in Montgomery when I had a gun in my house. When I decided that I couldn’t keep a gun, I came face-to-face with the question of death and I dealt with it. From that point on, I no longer needed a gun nor have I been afraid.’”
Only the NRA could so totally (self-servingly) miss the point on MLK day. How did King die again?
What is the “acceptable loss” rate for the ardent proponents of the Second Amendment?
Cory you look at Murder rates. I think you will find the harder it is to get a gun the higher the per capita murder rate.
Chicago and Washington DC come TM mind as high crime low gun ownership.
This goes along with Kal Lis comment. https://www.rawstory.com/2019/01/go-back-russia-nra-scorched-using-martin-luther-kings-assassination-push-pro-gun-agenda/
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/glanton/ct-met-gun-control-chicago-dahleen-glanton-20171003-story.html
Peoploe are sadly misinformed about Chicago’s gun laws.
Sam, this article is about suicide. You comment in no way refutes the science presented.
Kal Lis, I hear in the NRA’s and VP Pence’s and even Kristi Noem’s co-optation of the man we honor a certain political necrophilia, in which they view Dr. King as a mere corpse into which they may stuff whatever meaning they want for their own gratification.
I’ve always liked this Emerson passage:
“Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.”
I would add: To be great is also to be misquoted and have your words and deeds misconstrued by all future generations.
I looked as suggested by Sam and didn’t see any supporting links for his assertion about murder rates and gun regulation or ownership. Page 1 of the Google results linked mostly articles suggesting little or no relationship between murder rates and gun ownership. On the other hand, as relative to Cory’s topic, research on gun ownership and suicide found an astounding drop in suicides in Australia after the implementation of their policy buying back guns.
The article also points out a huge drop in the number of mass shootings in Australia.
https://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9212725/australia-buyback
While the belief that unfettered or at least liberal gun ownership is more valuable than the number of lives saved may be a permissible view in a free society, attempting to disguise such a view with false or careless and unsupported claims about the risk and increase in deaths from open ownership policies undermines the credibility of such a view. It would much more honest to contend, or at least simply acknowledge, that saving lives is less important than restrictions on gun ownership.
MLK was murdered by a sniper from a considerable distance. All the handguns and CC permits at that time would not have saved his life. He recognized the fact and accepted life on life’s terms.
@Sam … Wise up. I’ll wager a weeks pay that you’ve never lived in either Chicago or Washington DC. It’s incredibly easy to get a gun in either place. White people in Wisconsin make an easy living running pistols into Chicago as do gun runners from South Carolina into DC. Your stats are talking about a high crime – low LEGAL gun ownership. Big difference.
FoxNews has a hook in your cheek and you’re swimming towards their boat as fast as you can.
“political necrophilia, in which they view Dr. King as a mere corpse into which they may stuff whatever meaning they want for their own gratification.”
Brilliant, Cory. I’d like to find ways to insert that into discussions whenever possible, with your permission, of course. 😊
I’m here to serve, Debbo. Take my words and give them flight. :-)
👍👍👍