KELO TV mentions that South Dakota had a record number of suicides in 2017. The state is using federal grant money to promote a number of anti-suicide websites and helplines.
Sadly, one way to reduce suicide may be to move from South Dakota to New York City. Compare these CDC maps of suicide rates by county for South Dakota and New York:
From 2008 through 2014, South Dakota’s annualized crude rate of suicide per 100,000 population was 16.44, a touch more than double the New York state rate of 8.15. We don’t have reliable rates for most our rural, low-population counties, but our tribal populations in Oglala Lakota, Todd, and Corson counties have shocking suicide rates (41.34, 55.60, and 76.86, respectively). Pierre, Watertown, Mitchell, and Yankton all have higher suicide rates than the larger towns of Aberdeen (12.33) and Sioux Falls (15.48). Strangely, suicide is higher in the Black Hills, where my experience has been that the opportunities to climb, hike, and mountain bike in more thrilling terrain should make a guy much happier and much less likely to end his own life… but then what does an optimistic outdoorsman know about depression and suicide?
New York’s lowest suicide rates are in and around America’s biggest, most bustling city. Manhattan’s rate is the highest in the metro at 7.70. Staten Island is 6.63. Queens is 6.23. The Bronx is 5.39. Brooklyn is 5.06.
A resident of Aberdeen is almost two and a half times more likely to kill herself than a resident of Brooklyn. A resident of Sioux Falls is twice as likely to jump off an overpass than a resident of Manhattan is to bid farewell to the cruel world from a skyscraper window.
Flip those numbers, and maybe the differences aren’t that great. 99,984 out of every 100,000 people in Sioux Falls think life is worth living. 99,992 Manhattanites feel the same. But our conception that life in the big big city isn’t as good as life out in the country misses some key points of what makes life too hard to bear for a small fraction of our friends and neighbors.
What is the murder rate for New York vs South Dakota?
What is the number of gangs in New York vs South Dakota?
Can you safely keep your door unlocked in New York vs rural parts of South Dakota?
In short … living in a big city is better for your mental health than living in the sticks. Why? Big cities are liberal. Liberals care for each other whereas conservatives are selfish, overly competitive and insular.
Porter, if you have time, cross reference the voter registration rolls to see if it’s those nasty conservatives who are committing suicide in the sticks. If so, you can squeal with joy. If it turns out to be caring liberals, then somebody screwed the pooch.
ERX … Making light of such a serious subject is something I don’t want on my soul. Your remarks are insular. Do you feel a competitive advantage when young Indian kids see no future worth living? I think you do and that’s disgusting.
Bye, Felicia (GOOGLE IT)
Suicide rates drop by moving to New York??? Wow, that’s asinine. So is the “In Short”….Porter. We get it, you hate conservatives. Got it. What we don’t need is statements such as that with NO proof. Otherwise do more than just put forth that opinion simply from the suicide rate. My God. SMH
Jason, you lie! New York has never murdered South Dakota, not even a single time. Troll!
SP, I hate to point to the obvious, but, How do you know Porter hates wingnuts without proof? Is it intuitive or just made up bulloney?
From the Conservative University … The Denver Post
Two American Indian men who were touring Colorado State University were pulled off the organized visit by campus police when a parent called to report that she was nervous about their presence, school officials said Wednesday.
Police questioned the men and allowed them to rejoin the tour, but by the time they were released, the group had moved on without them. The men then returned to CSU’s Ammons Hall before leaving campus and going home to New Mexico.
Thanks, Mike. I don’t hate anybody. I hate what a lot of people do.
Ain’t it amazing how commenters can turn a tongue in cheek observation on the power of statistics political.
Good post Porter. So that we are clear, the suicide numbers wherever they are, are appalling. I am sorry Mr. Pearson but this does have to do with the republican leadership in South Dakota. It has to do with each legislator who sits on their hands and does nothing to further the availability of mental health treatments for prevention of suicide. The republican votes are consistent to stop Medicaid Expansion by the lie of the state cannot afford it, while we bury our dead. The republican party will never come to grips on this because they don’t give a damn until they need the help.
Porter has a real point to consider: we “tax and spend” liberals tend to spend those taxes on programming that has social safety benefits: hospitals and clinics that work with mental health for example. Ask the conservatives in Kansas what happens to mental health facilities when the tax money dries up; what happens to suicide rates in the absence of that help? This all applies to the SD-NY comparison in that I am willing to bet all the money in my pocket that Steve’s quip about lowering suicide rates by moving to NY really would be true because one would be moving from low mental heath service to higher service – thereby lowering the rate of suicide. I suppose that is an example of tangible, real caring Porter speaks of.
“experience has been that the opportunities to climb, hike and mountain bike in more thrilling terrain should make a guy much happier and much less likely to end his own life…” No.
American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. “Years and years of research has taught us that the overwhelming number of people who die by suicide had a diagnosable mental disorder at the time of their death.”… failing to look at the other contributing factors, from depression to family life to the ending of a relationship, is problematic and even perilous from a suicide prevention standpoint. “I am very concerned about the narrative that these stories collectively are writing, which is that suicide is a normal, understandable response to this terrible [bullying] behavior”. “In suicide prevention, we tend to favor the explanation that there are multiple causes.”
meade county stats are interesting (poor word)
Porter is on the right track. For instance, bigger cities have better access to Healthcare services, support groups, and especially psychiatric healthcare services for low income people which can be extremely hard to find. This is depressing to read about South Dakota and my first thought is to think that nothing will happen here. I can only hope that some good legislators will really try to work hard at changing these depressing suicide rates and especially on the reservations.
Also, metropolitan areas tend to be more tolerant of a person’s sexual Identity. We all know that transgender people have very very high suicide rates.
After the Parkland shooting when Trump finally responded to the shooting he said there needs to be more done for people with mental health needs. Nothing further has been done by Trump.
Today Trump also asked congress to cut the budget by $11 Billion, you can be assured that the republican congress and Trump will put funding for any behavioral health programs first on the chopping block.
The facts of lack of care and support in SD are very telling. Jenny, Porter, Roger and others have very aptly described the dangers of lack of adequate health care. Its a choice the SDGOP has made, so the burden lies on their shoulders. It’s a great pity and a much greater loss that they are unwilling to feel that willful responsibility for suicides in the state.
What’s asinine, Steve, is to use the word asinine just because you like the sound of a fancy vocabulary word that sounds like “ass” on the front but failing realize that the statement you’re criticizing is based on simple statistical fact. Suicide rates in New York City are less than half the rates in Sioux Falls and Aberdeen. Suicide is a significant indicator of mental distress. There is nothing stupid or foolish about Porter’s hypothesis that mental health may be better in places with lower suicide rates… however, it turns out that, by one source’s assessment, South Dakota ranks in the top ten for mental health while New York ranks in the top twenty. That’s an interesting, unsuspected disconnect, indicating that suicide rates don’t reflect every aspect of mental health. But the CDC data show that mortal despair is more often successfully acted upon in South Dakota than in New York.
One factor appears to be guns. The data are spotty, but South Dakota has a far larger percentage of suicides committed by firearms (50%) than does New York (29%… and far lower in NYC).
Cory wrote:
One factor appears to be guns. The data are spotty, but South Dakota has a far larger percentage of suicides committed by firearms (50%) than does New York (29%… and far lower in NYC).
I hope you are not saying a gun caused a person to commit suicide.
It’s not guns. It’s not South Dakotans. It is the cultural collapse of the Americans living on reservations.
Are reservations sovereign states? If so they should not be counted in our states suicide rates. If they were not counted we would be one of the lowest, if not the lowest suicide rates in the United States.
If you want to truly address the suicide you have to address the failed reservation communities.
OldSarg brings up some interesting points. Anybody have an easy way to separate on-reservation and off-reservation numbers? The most concerning counties for suicides in Cory’s map certainly match up about 70% with SD reservations based on a quick glance at a google map.
I agree with Ryan that the suicide rates seem to come from the reservations. The “cultural collapse of Americans living on the reservations” is a difficult phrase to unpack, given what the Sioux have been through at the hands of the United States.
Jason,
Murder rates in South Dakota (2.3/100k) are half the rates in New York (4.6/100k).
Murder is also a significant indicator of mental distress – just as much as suicide – would you agree?
Note* There is a greater difference between SD and NY suicide rates than there is between SD and NY murder rates.
I haven’t found any gang stats yet.
From Indians Country Today- The report stated that while suicide in the state and in the nation was a
major problem, on the reservations of South Dakota it was an epidemic.
It is a statewide issue. The majority of suicides are white men, 85
percent. Fifteen percent of the state suicide deaths are American Indian,
but the Native population is only 8 percent – statistics that illustrate a
major problem.
“Now we find out if the people of South Dakota want to answer the challenge
of making suicide prevention a priority,” Cook said. “I believe if the
people of South Dakota believe prevention ought to be a priority, this is a
blueprint to suicide prevention and we created the spark to get
implemented.”
Cook said that some reservation communities like Eagle Butte or the Crow
Creek Reservation have implemented programs that are working and could add
their ideas to the state wide prevention program.
Two percent of all American Indians reside in South Dakota, yet 5 percent
of all suicide deaths among American Indians occur in the state.
mfi, is there a cite for your quote? thx
https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/news/suicide-rate-high-in-sd-higher-on-reservations/
My bad, Leslie, I went and rechecked the date to find this is outdated- from 2005 instead of what I thought said was 2015.
I’m pretty sure the demographic group with the highest per capita suicide rate nationwide is white male adults. I’m not good at online research, but I know others here are, so this comment will surely be confirmed or corrected.
What surprises me is Cory’s comment that SD ranks in the top 10 “for mental health.” What does that mean? Availability? Accessibility? State $ support? Use per capita?
And Debbo would be correct as per usual- https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/slideshows/these-10-states-have-the-best-mental-health?slide=11
According to this South Dakota is number 1.
I have heard that South Dakota ranks in the top 10 for Hypnagogia, as well. SD is 9th, while Iowegians suffer more at 7th.
Great job finding the sites mfi, thank you. The 2nd site doesn’t clarify what is meant by “best mental health,” but I’m guessing it’s some kind of survey, and not scientific.
The American Foundation for Suicide Prevention site is really excellent. It contains lots of info and ways to break it down.
It was very interesting to read that in their youth girls are more likely to have feelings of hopelessness and suicide than boys. Yet in adulthood, that reverses. Why is that? I imagine ending that switch for men is critical.
I wonder if the isolation of most white American males is important? When they’re younger males have parents to lean on and be heard by. Culturally it is acceptable for them to show vulnerability to their mothers, but once they’re married that often ends. Also, by the time they’re in their 40s and older their parents may not be as emotionally available or even deceased. It’s just about impossible, emotionally draining and burdensome for one person (wife) to meet all the emotional needs of another. (husband)
A surprising number of women say their husbands have no male friends. Many more say the husbands have no male friends with whom they can share emotional intimacy. That’s crippling.
That’s my theory based on close observation and hundreds of conversations. You mostly white males who comment here, how many of you have male friends? Close male friends? What do you think of my theory?
Women are generally quite good at forming social support networks. Sometimes it just happens, but it also takes deliberate effort and a risk that the friendship won’t work out.
I wonder if “toxic masculinity,” a condition not all males have, limits male willingness to admit vulnerability, limits, weakness, emotional struggles, etc, to another male. Is that why males won’t take the risk of reaching out to another that women do?
Gentlemen?
Ms. Geelsdottir, I have read that it is because women are so anti-social and catty as youngsters that most of them burn that hellfire and selfishness out of their brains by the time they are supposed to have children. You have heard of “mean girls” no doubt. It is toxic, the mean girl syndrome. It permeates middle schools across the upper midwest.
Men are tougher. They suck it up. And just work harder when they feel the tears coming. Or hit something.
Debbo
I can’t speak to the depression and emotions of white American males other then what I have observed or talked with them.
After my first retirement a friend urged me to become a chemical dependency counselor at an all male treatment center. The program was mostly comprised of involuntary commitments, prisoners paroled to the program, court ordered and the homeless.
Of all the people I had as clients, 100’s actually, there were six that committed suicide and all were related to alcohol and drugs.
The same is true of the youth suicides and suicides in general on the Pine Ridge reservation, alcohol and drugs are involved and seem to provide the motivation to act.
There is one area that we haven’t discussed on this thread and that is passive suicide. We see it everyday, but do not recognize it. The homeless, the hopeless alcoholics, those living in poverty are committing passive suicide by their life choices or not feeling they have any choices.
Indeed. The homeless, the hopeless alcoholics, and those living in poverty are slowly committing passive suicide by their life choices. How do we teach them to choose better?
grudz
You start by not criticizing and condemning them. They are human beings, just like you.
Grudz said, “Men are tougher. They suck it up. And just work harder when they feel the tears coming. Or hit something.”
What they do Grudz, is kill themselves. That’s not toughness. That’s the end of them, and devastating for everyone who loves them.
How do they need to change so that they don’t suicide? What do American white males need to do differently in their lives so that suicide doesn’t seem like the only way to deal with their feelings?
“Mean girls” is a popular name for girl bullies. There are boy bullies too of course. Per the website, girls have a more difficult time with bullies than boys. Yet when they become adults, women do much better mentally than males. Why?
The human mind is a tricky thing. I think it’s unfortunate when somebody with potential dies young from any cause, but I think there’s something to be said about a person’s right to die when and how they want. I don’t condone suicide and I’m sure it often absolutely devastates a lot of innocent people, but it’s really the ultimate expression of autonomy.
We as a society should make mental health resources universally available to save anybody who is able of being saved, but not all people want to or can be saved. We are animals, after all. With billions of us, there are bound to be oddities and sad realities.
I only know my own experiences, so if a person believes death is more attractive than life, I can’t honestly tell them they’re wrong because I have never looked through their eyes.
And by the way, national statistics aside, anybody find anything regarding on-reservation versus off-reservation numbers in SD?
Interesting what you said about women doing better mentally Debbo.
I have read that women suffer from greater rates of depression.
I’ve sure never heard that women outgrow their mean girlness. I Think That it is more of feeling bad that they treated other girls badly when they were growing up. There are many women, myself included that find greater connectionwith men. Perhaps it is because of being treated badly by the mean girls When growing up.
Loneliness is an epidemic today, especially, with everybody addicted to their smart phones. People, especially younger generations have lost the art of communication.
So is the alleged “cultural collapse” of our Lakota neighbors responsible for Aberdeen and Sioux Falls having higher rates of suicide than New York City?
Some people like to blame “the other” for our problems. Don’t fall for it. South Dakotans kills themselves at higher rates than New Yorkers. That’s on us, not someone else.
I found this site with some suicide rates for South Dakota and it breaks it down by demographics: America Health Rankings https://www.americashealthrankings.org/explore/annual/measure/Suicide/state/SD?edition-year=2016
Good for you, OS. Now tell me how higher rates of suicide in Aberdeen, Sioux Falls, Pierre, Huron, Mitchell, and Yankton fit into your effort to blame the Indians for South Dakota’s suicide problem. Are Indians the only people killing themselves in South Dakota’s cities?
My hypothesis on guns (with no evidence, and I invite your rebuttals and links): if you have an ammosexual culture with easy access to guns, it will be easier for suicidal people to access the means of their self-termination and to internally mythologize their death by suicide as some brave final expression of phallic power.
Higher gun ownership rates in SD than in NY:
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/07/gun-owners-study-one-in-three/
Guns in home triple risk of suicide:
https://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2014/01/guns-home-double-homicide-risk-and-triple-suicide-risk-study-finds
Cory,
Guns don’t make a person commit suicide. That’s a fact.
I made no such claim. But it appears that guns make it easier for people to commit suicide.
Sleeping pills are far easier to get than guns.
A bed sheet or rope is far easier to gen than a gun.
*get
Jason, a Severelydepressed person is more likely to kill himself if there is a gun available in the house.
Jenny,
You can prove this how? Can you talk to dead people?
Rope, bed sheets, sleeping pills are in more homes than guns.
Cory, don’t be silly. Your method is no different than throwing away a new car because it has a flat. You can’t just blame the whole state. Well, I guess you can but it’s silly. You have to figure out what the common factors and contributing issues and address those specific items.
It’s about being truthful in addressing the problem. What are the demographics of those committing suicide in every area.
According to Cory: There are more suicides in states with a Corn Palace than in New York. Burn down the Corn Palace. . .
Jason why do you think they have more restrictions on allowing people with mental illness to purchase guns?
Jenny,
So they don’t kill other people.
Now please prove your above statement that people commit suicide because of a gun?
Also so they don’t, kill themselves,Jason.
Sorry for all the commas
You missed your period Jenny.
I meant on that last statement.
stupid misogynistic, prejudiced trolls. we can’t teach someone to avoid addiction. no more than we can teach one to avoid cancer… stigma producing grudz. join the human race. question the republican party. someday, maybe with science applied we can dice out the sophisticated factors, choices, nurture and nature that produce the illness. or we can ignore medical science, like we do gun science. like John Wayne.
And Meade county, ditca?
Guns are much quicker, Troll. Be nice if you had a point instead of injecting you disagreeeable disagreements in every post because Cory allows it.
When I said women do better mentally, I was referring to their lower suicide rates. I agree with Jenny, that women report higher rates of depression. “Report.” Apparently men have higher “UNreported” rates per their greater suicide levels.
In my personal experience Jenny, I’ve found women to be very nice people. However, I do not want to set up a women v. men contest here. What I want is fewer males suiciding.
I’m trying to understand why the rate for males is significantly higher than women. And why are boys healthier emotionally than girls and what happens that changes that in adulthood?
So, what is different about men from boys? I’ve heard and read a great deal about how few men have emotionally intimate friendships with other males of a similar age. It seems likely that could be an important clue.
Overall, research shows that women do better at creating and maintaining intimate friendships with other women of a similar age. If lack of such a relationship and the resulting social/emotional isolation plays a role in male suicides, it needs to be addressed.
We don’t want to divert into women v. men stuff or who is best. We want to understand what’s happening and that requires sometimes uncomfortable conversations . . . but it could save lives.
Bah. Everybody just needs to take a chill out beverage and relax. If Ms. Geelsdottir cannot figure this out it cannot be figured out and Mr. Spock and Freud took this all to their graves.
Mr. C, I was quoting you directly and then you lecture me. Do you not know your own words when you read them a scant period later? grudznick mocking. grudznick mocking.
grudz
You asked a question and I answered, I wasn’t aware my answer would offend you.
Old Sarge, now that was funny about me missing a period! I Really like the microphone instead of typing.
I really do understand what you are saying
Debbo. I wasn’t trying to badmouth women.
I honestly think men and women aren’t really all that different. We all have our hopes and dreams and tragedies in life. We all suffer. It is a good thing if Women can find friendships with men. Men can learn a lot emotionally from women. They can let their guard down a little bit. I have had very enjoyable conversations with men about this very subject. Most of them would say that coming from an abusive home made them disconnect emotionally. Having an abusive father can really mess up a guy.
One thing that really stuck out with me in my conversations with guys. They told me that they are more comfortable around women. Now these are straight men, Very nice guys that I have worked with.
Why were these guys more comfortable with women? They were not weirdos. Nothing strange about them and I thought it was so nice that they could be vulnerable and admit that. They connected emotionally and they appreciated that.
Do men not treat other men very nice? We always hear about women and mean girls treating each other bad, but
Are there just as many male jerks?
Minnesota ranks 4th highest for depression.
SD ranks towards the bottom and is lower than NY.
https://www.bcbs.com/the-health-of-america/reports/major-depression-the-impact-overall-health
Yet we kill ourselves more frequently. What pushes us over the edge over which Minnesotans and New Yorkers are not as frequently pushed?
The BCB link doesn’t answer Cory’s basic question about why South Dakotans kill themselves twice as often then New York.
Cory,
Based on the link from Sarge, it’s the Native Americans.
I’m going to guess because I don’t know, but I am going to guess the reservations in NY are way different than SD.
Cory … I wrote two posts on this topic that didn’t post. Just delete them, I guess. thanks
Maybe some of the South Dakotan suicides are due to others trying to cover up criminal behavior and then calling it a suicide. But hopefully that would only be a handful of events and wouldn’t explain such a large number. (Plus that could be happening in New York too.)
Couple items worth noting- https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mussels-test-positive-for-opioids-seattle-puget-sound/
Even edible mussels are junkies and this is scary- https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/25/health/nebraska-fentanyl-bust/index.html
Enough fentanyl in one truck to kill 26 million people. Imagine if that was dumped in a water supply.