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ACLU Launches Billboards Calling for Less Incarceration

Is the bail-bond industry on the same page as the American Civil Liberties Union?

ACLU billboard, Minnesota Avenue, Sioux Falls, SD, 2018.08.06.
ACLU billboard, Minnesota Avenue, Sioux Falls, SD, 2018.08.06.

Not likely.

As part of its new Smart Justice campaign to turn South Dakota away from policies that promote mass incarceration, ACLU is putting up billboards to suggest we put people first, not prisons. The above photo shows the ACLU’s message across the street from the Minnehaha County Jail, which will cost $48 million.

$48 million: that money could pay for a lot of substance-abuse counselors, mental health treatment, job training, classroom expansions….

The Smart Justice campaign doesn’t mention the bail-bond industry. But a shift from incarceration to addiction treatment and other alternatives could certainly take the wind out of the sails of an industry that exploits desperate people facing separation from their families and jobs.


  1. Ryan 2018-08-08 17:00

    I am all for community corrections and reducing the number of people in jail and prison – yay common sense!

    But…bail bonds is “an industry that exploits desperate people facing separation from their families and jobs.”? Really? RRREEEEEAAALLLYY? Give me a break. What was the point of even adding that to the post?

    That has the same flavor as saying that a grocery store exploits desperate people facing starvation from not hunting and gathering. What a silly thing to say just to try to belittle people who you think you are better than. If you actually think it’s true, it’s even worse.

  2. mike from iowa 2018-08-08 17:28

    Opines the Pompatus of Pablum.

  3. OldSarg 2018-08-08 18:09

    I don’t know anyone that ever voted one way or another because someone wasted money on a billboard. . . As far as your ACLU statement “we put people first, not prisons” shouldn’t it actually be “We put civil behavior first, not criminal acts”?

  4. Debbo 2018-08-09 00:09

    I want the laws to stop incarcerating some “civil behaviors”, as OS called them. Using weed is the first thing that comes to mind. Not being able to pay fines, costs, etc., for minor traffic violations is another.

    Widespread use of drug courts would cut down on incarceration rates and save $.

    I’ll have to think about what other things, but I’m sure other commenters have plenty of ideas.

  5. Ryan 2018-08-09 08:16

    Both of those articles seem to suggest my underlying thoughts on it. The criminal justice system is the broken, exploitative system. The bail bond market is an expected and rational response to that system. If all of the people who bond out had to sit in jail until they were acquitted or sent to prison, our already over-taxed jails and courts would implode and be an even bigger failure than they are now. If judges and legislators keep making bail a part of the process, there will be lenders there to lend cash to folks who can’t afford their own bail. That is not exploitation, that is supply and demand.

  6. happy camper 2018-08-09 09:31

    And include private prisons. It’s an industry. Judges have been caught sending people to prison for minor crimes because they got payoffs. Certain government functions should not be privatized and/or monetized.

    As a side note there are some really brilliant and beautiful minds that are/were part of the ACLU like Nadine Strossen. She gives an amazing interview on the importance of free speech:

  7. happy camper 2018-08-09 10:21

    She explains why the ACLU actually supported Citizens United and was against the McCain-Feingold Act – without it Planned Parenthood, Sierra Club, etc wouldn’t be able to express their views, maybe they couldn’t even have put that sign up.

  8. mike from iowa 2018-08-09 11:46

    Incarceration rates are all about filling pay to stay private prisons with virtually no government oversight. Should sound familiar to South Dakota Dems. Profits (from Uncle Sam scam) and there are companies making millions charging inmates fees to email.

    One last thingie about prisons- California got a couple thousand inmate volunteers to fight forest fires and not a one of them will be eligible to join a fire department when their time is up. Trying to keep prisoners imprisoned after they are released.

  9. OldSarg 2018-08-09 15:42


    1) South Dakota prisons are not private prisons.

    2) Who on earth would hire a felon to protect their lives?

    3) mike doesn’t live in South Dakota. He’s a welfare queen from iowa.

  10. Debbo 2018-08-09 16:01

    OS, I know Mike. Mike is definitely not a Queen. I guarantee it. He might be the court’s barrister or gardener, but certainly not a Queen.

    Are you a Queen?

    BTW OS, you know that anyone who receives a paycheck, pays into or has paid into the Social Security fund and paid contributions to disability funds and similar programs.

    Without too much divergence from the topic at hand, I have one more question for you:
    Are people born with Downs Syndrome, spina bifida, cerebral palsy, or other severe birth defects “welfare queens” since they’ve never paid into the funds? How about someone who develops schizophrenia at age 19, before they’ve managed to pay much in?
    (Oops. Thats 2 questions. Guess I’m the curious type.)

  11. mike from iowa 2018-08-09 16:20

    Old Snotface- all states have prisons

    Desperate states that need cheap labor to fight fires get help where they can find it.

    Opinions don’t worry about state lines, maroon. There are people all across the country that check out DFP and see the non-sense you spew, troll. Tell them they can’t lurk. You will probably be in for a rude awakening when they tell you where to get off. I can hardly wait.

  12. OldSarg 2018-08-09 17:29

    Guys, none of it matters unless you change your party. Your party is totally corrupt. This is just the truth that is as plain as the noses on your face. You have lost, are losing and will continue to lose because your “party” has turned against the values of this Nation. You have ostracized yourselves from society. I’m only here to point out the obvious. Oh, I can see a cruise ship out my window at the moment.

  13. Cory Allen Heidelberger Post author | 2018-08-09 22:13

    introducing the profit motive into the justice system leads to bad results. Consider how the profit motive here acts against the interests of liberty and small government. If businesses are making lots of money on bail, they’ll lobby for more police, stricter laws, more arrests, and stricter bail standards that make it harder for accused individuals to get out while awaiting trial. If businesses are making money running private detention facilities, they’ll lobby for the same things, plus stricter sentencing guidelines. By allowing bailbondsmen and private prison companies to profit from the justice system, we incentivize bigger government, a police state, and less liberty.

    Putting fewer people behind bars would reduce the profiteering of private prisons and bail bondsmen. The ACLU campaign is on the right track in multiple ways that should appeal to both civil liberty-minded Democrats and conservative, small-government-minded Republicans.

  14. Jason 2018-08-09 22:17

    Don’t break the law and you won’t have to deal with bail.

    Are you saying people don’t have a choice to break the law Cory?

  15. Ryan 2018-08-10 08:52

    Jason, I think somewhere around 40% of arrests don’t lead to a conviction. So people have a choice whether or not to break the law, but plenty of people find themselves needing bail even if they didn’t break a law.

    But really, we all break laws. Some of us just don’t get caught. Or we know the right people. Or we have money. Or we are smooth talkers. Or whatever.

  16. Jason 2018-08-10 09:24


    How much of the 40% is due to them not breaking a law at all?

  17. Ryan 2018-08-10 09:34

    No idea, I just guessed at the number in the first place. If there was one arrest without a crime, your theory falls apart, and I am comfortable with that likelihood.

  18. Jason 2018-08-10 09:39

    If you are illegally arrested, you can sue, so my “theory” is still relevant.

  19. Ryan 2018-08-10 09:44

    If a police department violates certain rights, you may have standing to sue for an unlawful arrest. You will likely lose. But that only applies if they violate certain rights. Good faith mistakes happen and people are wrongfully arrested all the time without recourse. Your theory is relevant only in a fantasy world where cops know what they are doing 100% of the time.

  20. Jason 2018-08-10 09:47

    For the record, I have no problem not putting people caught with drugs in jail except dealers.

    They do need to be put in mandatory rehab paid for by them or by loans from the bail bond industry or payday loans.

  21. Jason 2018-08-10 09:50

    Ryan wrote:

    and people are wrongfully arrested all the time without recourse.

    Please provide some evidence of this? I agree it may happen, but I don’t think it happens a lot.

  22. Ryan 2018-08-10 09:50

    I say legalize all drugs – black-market dealers disappear and we can let natural selection weed out the people who can’t handle their vices.

  23. Jason 2018-08-10 09:51

    I’m ok with that except for pregnant women.

  24. OldSarg 2018-08-11 01:40

    FACT: Not a single person o this site has EVER been helped or assisted by the ACLU. This is an argument over nothing. Back in Rapid had a good time.

  25. OldSarg 2018-08-11 10:22

    FACT: It’s a “billboard” Cory. In the midwest the cost to post a billboard is $3K-5K for just 4 weeks. FACT: The ACLU could have better spent the money defending Alex Jones from Corporations shutting down his free speech. The money at least would have gone “directly” to an issue as opposed to just sitting on a pole.

    mikey you have no say in who is a minority and who isn’t and your stupid response was off topic as well. I’m sorry. I shouldn’t have used the word stupid. I don’t think you are stupid. I do think the majority of your posts are nothing more than nasty off the cuff responses from someone who has never really contributed to society which doesn’t quite meet the definition of stupid so, my bad. I take it back.

  26. happy camper 2018-08-11 10:30

    Funny how some people on both sides don’t like the ACLU and their commitment to free speech – necessary to keep what we love – but also tolerate what we hate which is lost on those who want to shut it down, most hypocritically the far left, Progressives, and Antifa. It may be caused by a lack of civic education making it all the more disgraceful since Education is filled with those from the left. Many didn’t agree with the ACLUs fight for the KKK to march in Skogie – we’re at the anniversary of Charlottesville where they also fought to allow the right-wing rally. Looks like they have walked back their policy a little and will allow local chapters to decide what cases to take and feel more strongly about not defending groups who will be armed. In Stokie the KKK marched without guns and in silence. It probably is too ripe for violence but we have to blame the far left antagonists who are too ignorant to realize by restricting speech we’ll lose it all, everything we hold dear, so the important work they do must continue and be appreciated. A couple quotes from a recent interview below:

    “My view has always been that the more power that we give to authorities to restrict or censor speech in any way, the worse that will be for communities that are powerless.”

    “That when Jeff Sessions thinks about hate speech he’s not thinking about the KKK, he’s thinking about Black Lives Matter, he’s thinking about BDS protesters of Israel. And so to me and, I think, in our daily work — while I recognize the emotional and political difficulty of representing people who we loathe — I think that our commitment to equality requires it.”

  27. bearcreekbat 2018-08-11 10:46

    I have seen OS and Jason (in other threads) frequently use the acronym “FACT” in various posts. Since these statements often have no relation to reality I think I have figured out what they stand for:

    FACT (as used by OS and Jason) = False Allegations from Confused Trumpists.

    As an exmple, OS claims the 1st Amendment right to free speech limits the right of private corporations to censure speech they disagree with, such as Alex Jones many lies and incitments to violence and hatred. OS’s confusion seems to stem from his failure to understand that the 1st Amendment limits only the power of government, not the power of private entities, such as corporations.

  28. mike from iowa 2018-08-11 10:47

    OldSawnieBean, yer a troll and not a very good one. My post was spot on the subject of people in South Dakota being helped by the ACLU. My comment is a gazillion times more accurate than the snot drivel you posted claiming no one has been helped. There is absolutely no possibility of you knowing that for a fact, but then it is you we are talking about.

    Now start yer paid talking points about how Dems are hurting themselves by pointing out obvious crooked activity by the powers that be. You are just dying to.

  29. mike from iowa 2018-08-11 10:51

    I feel pretty certain Roger Cornelius, Spike and possibly bcb know of Native families who had their kids taken illegally and returned with the ACLU’s help. Debbo, herself, may know from her time as pastor, teacher, and social worker.

    Even if this statement proves to be untrue, it is still more relevant and accurate than you ever hope to be.

  30. Porter Lansing 2018-08-11 10:54

    To you who despise the NFL players who take a knee during our National Anthem to protest the killing of unarmed black men by over zealous and inwardly fearful police officers …
    You say the flag and the anthem are about honoring the military. That kneeling during the anthem is a disgrace and dishonors those who’ve made the ultimate sacrifice. That’s only slightly true. You see, the military is about honoring America’s equality for all. Equality is what the military defends in battle. The military doesn’t fight for honor. The military displays honor. Military members throughout history have died and become disabled fighting for America’s equality for all. Military members haven’t fought, died and become disabled to be recognized and honored. That would be selfish and that’s opposite of the military mission.
    A protest over the lack of equality for black men is wholly appropriate, warranted and necessary.
    PS … Notice how the incidents of unarmed black men killed by police has been mitigated since BLM and NFL players have stood up for their rights.
    Those who choose not to watch NFL because they feel the military is being dishonored are cutting off their nose because they think their face is too ugly.

  31. OldSarg 2018-08-11 10:58

    happy, I used to think the world of the ACLU.

    Their original goal was “defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed to every person by the Bill of Rights of the U.S. Constitution and laws of the United States.”

    Now their stated goal is “The ACLU works tirelessly in courts, legislatures, and communities to defend and preserve the Constitution’s promise of liberty for everyone in our country.”

    They are lobbyist just like Koch Industries. No different.

    mike, the post was about a billboard. You are reading too much into it.

  32. mike from iowa 2018-08-11 11:00

    The biggest billboard size allowed in South Dakota is 1,200 square feet, and the annual fee for a billboard of that size is $32.

  33. OldSarg 2018-08-11 11:03

    mike, reread you post and ask yourself honestly who would lease a pice of land next to a road to have someone erect a 1200 SF sign for only $32/year.

    Please ask Cory to have that post removed. Your post does not make you “sound” stupid. It is an all out, over the wall stupid mental invasion. You need help.

  34. OldSarg 2018-08-11 11:04

    Porter is off his meds again. . .

  35. mike from iowa 2018-08-11 11:04

    2018-08-11 at 01:40

    FACT: Not a single person o this site has EVER been helped or assisted by the ACLU. This is an argument over nothing. Back in Rapid had a good time.

    mike, the post was about a billboard. You are reading too much into it.

    I see nothing about a billboard. I think you got caught blowing smoke and are looking to cover yer arse.

  36. OldSarg 2018-08-11 11:05

    mike, read the title “ACLU Launches Billboards”

  37. mike from iowa 2018-08-11 11:11

    OldSawnieBean, re read yer very first comment. Nope, no billboards in it.

  38. Debbo 2018-08-11 11:52

    Somewhere in this mishmash of comments, and I lost track of it exactly, someone said people on the political Left or Liberal/Progressive side hate the ACLU.

    Hmmm. I find that very odd given the sentiments I read from righties. I can’t think of a liberal/progressive I know who hates the ACLU. They defend liberty as described in the Constitution, regardless of who it affects, even nasty people like the KKK, Rush Limpbals, etc. I sometimes wish they wouldn’t defend those people, but admire them for sticking to their principles. That takes courage.

  39. happy camper 2018-08-11 12:40

    I said some on each side don’t like the ACLU. I witnessed the PC culture develop on the Progressive side: You can’t say that! It became a form of self-censorship, and what do you think all the protests are against Jordan Peterson, Dave Shapiro, Dave Rubin etc., people from “The Intellectual Dark Web?” It might be true the ACLU is reversing its gears, quote follows:

    The American Civil Liberties Union has explicitly endorsed the view that free speech can harm “marginalized” groups by undermining their civil rights. “Speech that denigrates such groups can inflict serious harms and is intended to and often will impede progress toward equality,” the ACLU declares in new guidelines governing case selection and “Conflicts Between Competing Values or Priorities.”

    This is presented as an explanation rather than a change of policy, and free-speech advocates know the ACLU has already lost its zeal for vigorously defending the speech it hates. ACLU leaders previously avoided acknowledging that retreat, however, in the apparent hope of preserving its reputation as the nation’s premier champion of the First Amendment.”

  40. bearcreekbat 2018-08-11 13:00

    happy, the link you provided to the Wall Street Journal is a pay site that I cannot access without subscribing to the WSJ, which I do not want to do. In the accessible portion of the link the WSJ labels the piece an “opinion” piece.

    I tried to find other sources addressing the opinion piece’s argument and could only find right wing sources, such as Breitbart and others. There seems to be no support for the WSJ opinion on mainstream news web sites nor on the ACLU site that I could find. Can you direct us to any links with accessable more objective factual information about the ACLU’s official policy changes on defending free speech from governmental restrictions?

  41. happy camper 2018-08-11 13:27

    OK – a search ACLU changes its goals and ACLU new goals comes up with a few links. They’re saying the ACLU doesn’t want to make their change obvious which is why they are referencing a leaked memo.

    Charlottesville violence prompts ACLU to change policy on hate groups protesting with guns

    Reason magazine article: Leaked Internal Memo Reveals the ACLU Is Wavering on Free Speech

    Alan Dershowitz – The Final Nail in the ACLU’s Coffin

    National Review – The ACLU Abandons Its Free-Speech Absolutism

    In Trump’s America, the ACLU takes a new approach to free speech

    Want to Defend Civil Liberties? Don’t Look to the ACLU

  42. happy camper 2018-08-11 13:43

    Well, I found about 5 links after doing a search of ACLU new goals and ACLU changes goals but it won’t post. It says already posted duplicate. They are saying the ACLU doesn’t want this change to be known. They were Reason Magazine, PBS, Newmax, National Review, New Republic. Also try a search ACLU leaked memo.

  43. happy camper 2018-08-11 13:57

    Other articles say the memo was leaked to Reason Magazine, and Reason links to the memo itself second link. Quote from Reason as follows:

    The American Civil Liberties Union will weigh its interest in protecting the First Amendment against its other commitments to social justice, racial equality, and women’s rights, given the possibility that offensive speech might undermine ACLU goals.

    “Our defense of speech may have a greater or lesser harmful impact on the equality and justice work to which we are also committed,” wrote ACLU staffers in a confidential memo obtained by former board member Wendy Kaminer.

  44. bearcreekbat 2018-08-11 13:57

    Thanks mfi! I consider Volokh a reliable objective source. His post sheds quite a bit of light on the matter, most of which was omitted or ignored by happy’s post. I would anyone that relies on happy’s post to read Volokh’s material before jumping to any conclusions.

  45. Porter Lansing 2018-08-11 14:03

    I Google’d “ACLU changes goals” and found just what the new goals are. (Since the repeal of net neutrality I now have the new SUPER GOOGLE beta)
    1. Demand government accountability and transparency
    2. Protect the rights of immigrants
    3. Defend reproductive rights
    4. Protect First Amendment rights
    Respond aggressively to threats against Arab, Middle Eastern, Muslim and South Asian (AMEMSA) communities
    5. Defend LGBT rights
    6. Defend core civil rights and civil liberties from erosion
    7. Mobilize the American people

  46. OldSarg 2018-08-11 14:14

    They are lobbyist. That is all.

  47. mike from iowa 2018-08-11 14:24

    They are lobbyist. That is all.

    Bull feathers. That is akin to saying Planned Parenthood only does abortions. Try harder.

  48. happy camper 2018-08-11 14:24

    Sadly Old Sarg appears to be right thanks for letting us know. They have been invaded by Progressives and are now just a bunch of Social Justice Warriors. They think they know what’s best for us and what we should think. The point of free speech is to let us sort it out!

    Thanks for providing the list Porter.

  49. Porter Lansing 2018-08-11 14:55

    You’re welcome, HC. I’m willing to bury the rhetoric and give you respect. Welcome back. 👍🏻

  50. mike from iowa 2018-08-11 14:59

    Sure hate to see how you wingnuts and Russian trolls define lobbyist. OldSawnieBean wouldn’t know right from left from wrong.

  51. bearcreekbat 2018-08-11 15:21

    One of happy’s links has a link to the actual leaked memo. It is worth reading before criticizing the ACLU. OS and happy seem to insist on some version of ideological purity, which is unrealistic without unlimited resources. Public interest organizations like the ACLU do not have unlimited resources and must decide on competing constitutional interests and objectives in considering taking on any case. Reading this memo, I could not find a single objectionable factor or criteria that the memo encourages (not mandates) be considered in choosing whether to take on a case. Moreover, neither OS nor happy have identified any objectionable criteria from the actual memo. So there is that. Anyway, if you are truely interested in this issue it would assist you to read the memo in its entirely before passing any judgment.

    Thanks for the link happy, it was helpful and informative! From the memo’s conclusion:

    The guidelines and practices outlined here are not a panacea. They do not dictate outcomes in particular cases. In our view, that would be both unwise and inconsistent with ACLU policy. We are deeply committed to a wide range of rights and to the extension of those rights to all, and at times those rights will come into conflict. When conflicts do arise, the best we can do is work toward a response that is true to our principles, recognizes the costs associated with acting and not acting, includes a process that ensures attention to all of the competing values of the organization, and seeks to mitigate the costs of acting or not acting. . . .

  52. happy camper 2018-08-11 15:35

    I have a feeling some don’t understand why there are such strong feelings about free speech and adherence to Constition, especially since Progessive positions may be in support of something like gay rights. Well, these positions change with the wind and are way too subject to tea leaves Obama didn’t support gay marriage for example, and in a conservative town I am never mistreated. I’ll put my confidence in the law not some group thinking they’re my self-appointed defender/protector (and probably want a donation) many of the Walkaways don’t want to see themselves as minorities, victims, etc. and don’t want any label other than American.

    Thanks Porter.

  53. Debbo 2018-08-11 15:47

    HC, just keep hanging on to your Russian walk away myth if it makes you feel better. That’s why Pootie’s boys troll the righties. It works.

  54. Debbo 2018-08-11 15:51

    BTW, nobody does victimhood better than Tangerine Wankmaggot and his white supporters. Liberals are picking on them, taking their rights, destroying their jobs, ruining their culture, crushing their religion, etc, ad infinitum. Never mind that their beloved Russpublicans control all 3 branches in DC and many of the states.

    Sad. Very sad.

  55. Porter Lansing 2018-08-11 16:10

    Any gay man, lesbian or transgender, African American, Native American, Latino y Latina or other minority that “walks away” from this Democratic platform to join the Don Trump hate machine deserves what they encounter. Self loathing is real and explains a lot, psychologically. Dems will win the Conogress without you. And, we’ll always be on your side even if you feel the need to leave.
    1. Demand government accountability and transparency
    2. Protect the rights of immigrants
    3. Defend reproductive rights
    4. Protect First Amendment rights
    Respond aggressively to threats against Arab, Middle Eastern, Muslim and South Asian (AMEMSA) communities
    5. Defend LGBT rights
    6. Defend core civil rights and civil liberties from erosion
    7. Mobilize the American people

  56. mike from iowa 2018-08-11 16:18

    I have a feeling some don’t understand why there are such strong feelings about free speech and adherence to Constition, especially since Progessive positions may be in support of something like gay rights.

    HC do you ever bother to read what you put in print? Gays have the exact same rights as you and all other whiteys. What don’t you get about equal rights? It is in the constitution- the one yer side claims to love and adhere to all the while you ignore it because you have control of all branches of the government.

  57. happy camper 2018-08-11 17:10

    The thing you’re missing modern people don’t want to be labeled and prejudged. I’m reminded of Cory’s contradictory thinking there is no such thing as race he would say in one breath, but support quotas and affirmative action in another. Either you believe in equal opportunity or you don’t. You can believe in equality of opportunity, and accept there are biological and racial differences, but the moment you dictate equality of outcome you’ve destroyed the possiblity of there ever being equal opportunity. This is just another reason why people are walking away.

  58. OldSarg 2018-08-11 17:14

    happy camper = Classic Liberal

  59. mike from iowa 2018-08-11 17:18

    People are hightailing it away from you and yers, HC. You still aren’t for equal rights, equal outcomes. You want special rights so you can have unequal outcomes.

  60. Porter Lansing 2018-08-11 17:29

    If #WalkAway was real (It’s real, alright. Real Russian fake social media.) then Republican Party membership would be rising. Republican Party affiliation isn’t rising.
    If Happy Camper and Jason and Ryan and Ol Sarg and Miranda and Lynn feel the need to be part of a group, more power to them. What ever it takes to make our LGBTQ Americans feel good is best for all of us.
    ~ “Republican’s party identification took a sharp drop at the end of George W. Bush’s second term and never really recovered. The trend seems to have taken another drop after Trump’s election.” –

  61. happy camper 2018-08-11 18:34

    Yes Old Sarg although I will have to say I found the interview Dave Rubin did with Nadine Strossen, the former head of the ACLU to be very moving, and she is obviously a Civil Libertarian. I didn’t know Progressives had invaded their camp although that appears to be the case. Old school liberals are quite Libertarian I find but they can’t relate to the Democratic party as it is today so they’re walking away. How do we prove they aren’t Russian bots!

  62. Debbo 2018-08-11 21:07

    “modern people don’t want to be labeled and prejudged.”

    HC, where do you get this stuff? Except for the “prejudged” you slipped in there. If that’s true, why are there white supremacist groups, Czech Days, Black Lives Matter, Germans from Russia,, August the Deuce celebration, etc.

    People discovering or celebrating their labels/heritage is a thriving industry! It looks like what you’re doing is conflating one’s heritage or skin color with something negative or blanket assumptions, hence your use of the word “prejudged”.

    From what I can see in Minnesota’s diversity, people are happy with their labels. In fact, Asian people prefer more specificity. What they’re saying is, “I’m not Asian, I’m Hmong.” Or Karen or Tibetan, etc. They want to be recognized but Not Prejudged. That’s prejudice. Acknowledging one’s ethnicity or skin color does not have to equate with prejudice. Recognition is simply an observation, like noticing hair color, nothing more, nothing less.

    What they want is a fair chance, and the USA doesn’t offer that because this nation has a distinct bias for the white male Christian. They can see that. Women can see that. It’s more difficult for white male Christians to see because it’s your culture. You have to listen to the Other tell you about it, believe them and open your eyes to look for it.

  63. Jason 2018-08-11 21:38


    Please list below the “facts” you think I posted on this website that are false.

  64. Jason 2018-08-11 21:43

    Debbo wrote:

    USA doesn’t offer that because this nation has a distinct bias for the white male Christian.


    Please explain how you know someone’s religion that you meet in your life?

    Please explain how a white female Christian is considered in this bias?

    What happens if a black male Christian tells you they are Christian?

  65. happy camper 2018-08-11 23:07

    Except you’re just wrong Deb. To borrow your lens Asians outperform whites in education and income, and I was careful to use the word modern to describe those who cast off the old labels, or they are very secondary in their lives. It’s also been shown the gap between men and women is a farse for many reasons. Women decide to quit work or work limited hours to raise a family, and therefore have less experience if they return, and they gravitate to jobs most suited to their biology by choice. Discrimination is largely something internalized. Modern people want no part of identity politics and intersectionality which the Democrats promote to maintain their base. They’re walking away cause they’ve turned the page – you’re looking for something you need to find.

  66. Debbo 2018-08-11 23:30

    Denial of white male privilege might fit your narrative, but if you take a look around you’ll see that it is denial.

    How many friends and acquaintances do you have who are POC? Are you getting all this “information” from the Russian videos?

  67. Debbo 2018-08-11 23:32

    HC, look at all the law making bodies in the US. Look at the legal system. Look in the executive suites of businesses. Who do you see?

  68. Jason 2018-08-11 23:37


    Let me know when you have the intellectual honesty to answer my questions.

  69. Jason 2018-08-11 23:44

    Meet the Family That Was Forced To Close Their Food Truck That Raised Money For The Homeless Because Of Anti-ICE Protestors

    The food truck was called “The Happy Camper” and originally had a chef who was homeless named Greg. Greg is featured in an emotional video on the Operation Off The Grid website in which the family and he discuss homelessness and how Greg joined the organization.

  70. mike from iowa 2018-08-12 07:30

    Furthermore, Jason, let the world know when you have an honest, intellectual question that deserves an answer. We’ll wait.

  71. mike from iowa 2018-08-12 07:35

    Happy et al are toe tapping their way from sanity to white male identity of Drumpf wingnuts.

    Wahhhhhhhh, we want furriners to assimilate and become like us. Doesn’t matter how they assimilate they will never be white like us. We don’t want them here in Whitopia.

  72. happy camper 2018-08-12 09:37

    The truth is the people who are successful adapt and leave the old behind. The only thing the Democrats know is Victimhood Politics and the left is teaching new generations they are Micro-Victims subject to microagressions which is an insult to those who really suffered and got us where we are today, which is a pretty good place. There are so many jobs that go unfilled one friend tells me the “white people” stick their nose up at the manufacturing jobs in his small Iowa town, so it’s become a magnet for “minorities.” Another tells me they can’t meet the quotas for women because the work is too physical (for most). People can sit around bellyaching all day long there will always be a group (of any color) that don’t want to work or be responsible for themselves. Still the highest indicator of success is being responsible it’s just griping at this point people can go out and make good lives but the Democrats keep telling them you can’t, the deck is stacked against you, you need us. It’s malarkey. Way too many professional gripers stirring the pot.

    Yes Deb I’ve had many “minority” friends. And what about this Lawrence Diggs, he says you can’t even define race. At 4:40 he explains how when he came to Roslyn, SD the neighbor came over to ask if he was moving in, he thought he was about to get some racial prejudice, but instead the guy offered his pickup and said just let the wife know so she doesn’t think some kids have taken it, and he goes on to say he would stack up the people of SD to those he’s met anywhere around the world.

  73. mike from iowa 2018-08-12 10:27

    Nice try, HC. Your video is damn near as old as I am and yer anecdotes from iowa and elsewhere sound just exactly like talking points. Like it or not, it all sounds made up.

  74. mike from iowa 2018-08-12 10:35

    The biggest victim the world has ever seen and heard resides in the Kremlin Annex-1600 Pennsylvania Ave, Washington DC.
    No slight is too small for the spoiled orange colored clown to whine about.

    No one ever has been mistreated and accused of lying as he has. Just ask him.

  75. happy camper 2018-08-12 11:08

    It’s not made up: Harlan IA, population 5,000 – they make bacon almost all the bacon you get in a restaurant now is pre-cooked. That’s all they do. Willmar, MN process turkeys – much harder work. Both friends told me “white people” won’t do the work.

    Lawrence Diggs is a real guy, a poet and storyteller Cory references from time to time who made a life in SD – a place Deb describes as highly racist – just ain’t true. It’s baggage talking the psychological need to continue to see things the same way is called Belief Perseverance. Quote: Peter Marris suggests that the process of abandoning a conviction is similar to the working out of grief. “The impulse to defend the predictability of life is a fundamental and universal principle of human psychology.” Human beings possess “a deep-rooted and insistent need for continuity”.

  76. Porter Lansing 2018-08-12 12:29

    “Magnet for minorities?”

  77. Debbo 2018-08-12 13:24

    HC, I appreciate your anecdotal stories. We all have them and are aware of anecdotal stories to “prove” anything, except they don’t. Your story about Mr. Diggs proves that he is not discriminated against in Roslyn. No more, no less.

    I haven’t had that many “minority friends.” I’ve just lived in the midst of POC and been a minority as a white woman. There are areas and places in Minneapolis and St. Paul where POC are the majority. It’s an interesting experience. You should try it some time. Those pockets of the country where white male privilege does not exist are really refreshing and different.

    The thing is HC, from your perspective, your arguments may look more accurate, and from your position, you can simply ignore the arguments you don’t like and collect scraps and bits and pieces to create scenarios more amenable to your view. That’s exactly how your privilege works.

  78. mike from iowa 2018-08-12 13:58

    Monogram Meats sez right up front they have a’ highly diverse’ work force and employees need to be ready to work in extreme heat/cold conditions as the need arises.

    I suspect since the company does meats and bacon the work force is reliant on immigrant labor. They seem to gravitate towards meat packer jobs.

  79. happy camper 2018-08-12 15:22

    Deb I’ve lived in Suitland, MD 92% black, 3% white. Most of this privilege talk is nonsense. Do you know any conservatives? I don’t mean far out right wingers, but just moderate people who may be Republican? They’re not what I assumed when I was drinking all that Liberal Kool-Aid. I used to hate Republicans for no other reason but they had an R. How dumb I was!

    Yes Porter some of these small towns are magnets: “Since October 15, 1989, the rural city (of Willmar) has experienced a large influx of immigrants from Latin America and Northeast Africa, mostly due to the demand for labor at the Jennie-O poultry plant. In 2001, the city was recognized as an “All America City” by the National Civic League, in part for its success as growing numbers of immigrants became part of the community. Granted the video below is by Monogram, but my friend says they work hard to keep people there and the jobs are all clean, pretty easy work.,_Minnesota

  80. Porter Lansing 2018-08-12 15:55

    HappyCamper … You say you used to hate Republicans. From the highly negative things you post about Democrats, you now hate us. As I told you, self loathing is real. You’re certainly showing symptoms of hating yourself. Why should we consider your thoughts valid, as you appear to be a natural born hater?

  81. happy camper 2018-08-12 16:16

    I’ve come to dislike the extremes. They draw us in with easy black and white answers and point to the enemy. I was part of a group of liberals who enjoyed trashing Republicans, they were the haters, the oppressors, that line of thinking I accepted at the time. But if you step back, and really start reading and move toward the middle, that is a rich place with no easy answers. There’s not enough thinking on either extreme. The horrible things that are said in Breitbart comments for example are just as bad and keep these two sides antagonistic. Maybe we could throw the Dakota War College in there too. I have wondered why I was so sucked into it and I think it’s because years ago the liberals were the only ones who seemed accepting of gay rights, but we’re in a different place now. A better place and we shouldn’t be anchored to the past.

  82. mike from iowa 2018-08-12 16:30

    People have to be willfully ignorant if they claim their whiteness hasn’t saved their hides from police harassment or un – necessary background checks for employment or loans. Whitey always gets the benefit of the doubt especially if there is a POC within visual range.

  83. mike from iowa 2018-08-12 16:36

    have wondered why I was so sucked into it and I think it’s because years ago the liberals were the only ones who seemed accepting of gay rights, but we’re in a different place now. A better place and we shouldn’t be anchored to the past.

    We are in a worse place now. Don’t allow yerself to be fooled. Drumpf has the white racists and Nazis stirred up against fellow Americans and immigrants of every color because he is a racist hater. His past actions and present actions prove beyond a doubt he is racist and whites love him for that.

    All these different media report the same thing. The majority believe race relations have gotten worse in less than 2 years of the racist in the Kremlin Annex.

  84. happy camper 2018-08-12 16:51

    I don’t know Mike I voted for Obama twice – I thought he would pull us together. He being of mixed race, but it was a terrible economic time, but I think he played it. He has real ties to the far left and he’s just a politician. We were a little bit gullible. But what also should be said while the Republicans were out of power their behavior was horrendous, anything to get back in it felt, now that they have the power they’re genteel, but that’s not individual people who are your neighbors, most of whom are just moderate people trying to get along.

  85. jerry 2018-08-12 17:11

    Dude, do you even know what the word “genteel” means? I think you are thinking of Gentile, which is more like it. Oh, and so what if you voted for Obama, it was either him or Palin, not even much to think about there. We were gullible alright, in 2008, we were sunk. Obama did great things for your people happy camper, now your Gentiles are working to rescind those strides.

  86. happy camper 2018-08-12 17:27

    I think you’re oversimplifying Jerry. Obama was against gay marriage until it penciled out, then he “evolved.” We have this tendency to let our side off the hook. Palin was a little bit right in mocking the hope and change slogan and McCain might have been ok. So again Obama didn’t do anything great for “my people” until the political tea leaves allowed it. He’s just a politician. I’m not convinced gay marriage was the best answer civil unions make more sense.

  87. mike from iowa 2018-08-12 17:30

    Remember when Obama was legally elected, the first thing he said was they were not going to file charges or investigate the previos administration crooks. No, Sir. The country needed to be fixed after wingnuts divided us so bad under dumbass dubya.

    Remember 2010 wingnuts begged to be handed the reins of congress so they could create jobs and immediately went after a woman’s right to an abortion and other social programs. They tried their damndest to keep America divided against a Black Potus and they should never be trusted to run America ever again.

    2016 they elected a known, practicing racist with help from Russia.

  88. mike from iowa 2018-08-12 17:35

    I’m not convinced gay marriage was the best answer civil unions make more sense.

    Another case where you want one group to have special rights. How about civil unions for all? Good luck getting that past phony wingnut kristians.

  89. jerry 2018-08-12 17:40

    Here is what President Obama did for your people under his watch “June 26, 2015
    On June 26, 2015, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down all state bans on same-sex marriage, legalized it in all fifty states, and required states to honor out-of-state same-sex marriage licenses in the case Obergefell v. Hodges.”

    Without President Obama working for equal rights for all, your people would have been left behind as they have since the place was a colony. Now get out your Pride Flag and put it in front of your crib man. Wave that sucker and thank the Black dude.

    Palin liked black basketball players for hoop and change.

  90. happy camper 2018-08-12 17:51

    I don’t know Mike, but you sound an awful like a Libertarian to me. I meant civil unions for all and let churches do their own thing – government hands off. I think the ACLU has done wonderful things in the past which was the main point of this post but I am saddened they are becoming an advocacy group. The point of free speech is that we should be shaking it out amongst ourselves, not big brother or those who think they are smarter than us. I have been wanting to read On Liberty by John Stuart Mill. We can and must make our own decisions is my take.

  91. mike from iowa 2018-08-12 18:50

    Happy, you and Grudz are more likely to be blood relatives than I have ever been to being a Libertarian.

    And if I had my way, churches would be banned until they could actually prove the non-sense they spew.

    You will find out soon enough if Marvel Comics ever grant me the superpowers I asked for so I could straighten out the entire world-starting in this place.

  92. Debbo 2018-08-12 21:23

    “Most of this privilege talk is nonsense.”

    You’re kidding HC, right? That’s a basic bedrock of the USA. This nation was founded on white male privilege and it’s only somewhat abated.
    ” Most of this privilege talk is nonsense,” is like saying the sky isn’t blue. I’m dumbfounded that anyone would say that.

  93. happy camper 2018-08-12 23:19

    Deb you have such a very strange standard. What was the rest of the world like in 1776? Look how far western ideals have pushed things forward in a relatively short period of time you have to give it historical context. That privilege does not hold true today.

    Mike people get to believe whatever stupid things they want, and just one post away from a minister preaching against authority. Hello. Religion, dogma, authority. I’m dumbfounded.

  94. Debbo 2018-08-13 00:51

    Oh HC. Ask POC if they think white male privilege exists. Not one or 2 people you know. It’s due to your white male privilege that you can deny it. Therefore I’m sure you’ll continue to deny as long as it pleases you.

    The mind reels.

  95. OldSarg 2018-08-13 06:26

    Debbie you are searching for someone to enable your excuse for your failures. No one chose to make you a woman any more than someone choosing to make me a man. You cannot force me or anyone else to make things better for you because you see being a woman as a disability. Sure there is male privilege just as there is female privilege but you can’t change that and neither can anyone else. You will never be a physically strong as the average man and a man will never be as caring as the average woman. Your true privilege is the gray matter between your ears and when you accept that you will stop searching for things to take offense too. Peace

  96. mike from iowa 2018-08-13 07:36

    Silly Debbo, it wasn’t on;y rich white landowners that got vote in early America. It was some other guys, too.

    It wasn’t only rich white men who got to own land or slaves. It was them other guys, too.

    It wasn’t only rich white landowners who got to govern. It was them other guys, too.

    Problem is wingnuts fail to remember who them other guys were, they’re just certain it wasn’t white privilege.

    Today, even though POC and women can vote (when whitey feels benevolent enough to allow them) they are still fighting for equality once afforded only to white privileged.

  97. Cory Allen Heidelberger Post author | 2018-08-13 07:49

    WOw, OS, you really can’t resist the cheap personal attack, can you?

    White privilege exists, as surely as the water in which fish swim. Similar perception problem.

    And as Libby Skarin of the ACLU points out in our podcast, whites are incarcerated far less frequently than people of color, at rates incommensurate with population and commission of crime.

  98. Jason 2018-08-13 07:53


    Why doesn’t the ACLU defend unborn black babies?

    Black unborn babies are murdered at a far higher rate in proportion to white unborn babies?

  99. Jason 2018-08-13 07:55


    You left out the word “male” when you tried to defend Debbo’s false narrative.

  100. happy camper 2018-08-13 08:46

    The thing is, Deb throws every white man in a bucket of privilege. All of them she doesn’t even use a paint sprayer, so we could say she’s been part of an institution that has suppressed, murdered, tortured to force people into a doctrine there’s an all-knowing god do as the church tells you …… Rhetorically we could use huge buckets like she uses them for “white men” but she doesn’t see it.

    So if there is SOME white privilege left, that should be explored from a humanist perspective. My experience in other cultures people use power when they can not inherent to skin color. People just exploit it’s what they do, so civil liberties, equality of opportunity, the Constitution and Bill of Rights is the basis of the nation even if paradoxically it wasn’t written for everyone at the time. It’s the best thing we got going, people thinking for themselves, tyranny can come from the left which is again why the ACLUs change of goals is so disheartening.

  101. happy camper 2018-08-13 09:06

    And Mike you need a wakeup call. I’ve posted it before during America’s time of slavery, freed blacks owned other blacks, Native Americans owned blacks, Native Americans owned and sold other Native Americans in Canada, probably here, some Native Americans fought for the south. Your simple, simple narrative is not true. In all other parts of the world slavery was widespread it was no American invention. Look deeper.

  102. Porter Lansing 2018-08-13 09:10

    Every race testifies that white males have more privileges than they do. What’s the only race with a few deniers of what every other race in the world knows?
    Happless … you may deny white privilege but only because you have it.

  103. Ryan 2018-08-13 09:17

    Saying privilege exists is pointless. Doesn’t matter if it is “white privilege,” or “white male privilege,” or “crazy christian privilege,” or “female privilege,” or “wealthy privilege.” If you whine about somebody having more than you, you are playing a victim. There is always somebody with more. There is always somebody with less.

    People who say they want equality often seem to want favor. If you want equality, you have to understand that fair and equal are not the same. If you want fairness, you have to understand that what you want will never exist and you are childish. I support equality because this is the real world and actual equality is better than fantasy fairness.

  104. mike from iowa 2018-08-13 09:27

    What does ignoring or pretending white privilege doesn’t exist get you?

    Whitey claims people that demand equal rights are wanting special rights when it is exactly backwards. Privileged whites want to maintain that privilege.

  105. Ryan 2018-08-13 09:38

    mike, all people who want different rules for different people are the problem.

    If those people are wealthy and think wealthy people should have more freedoms, they are the problem.

    If those people are poor and think poor people should receive everything for free, they are the problem.

    If those people are white and they think white people deserve to be treated better than others, they are the problem.

    The problem is ego. The problem is greed. The problem is desire. The problem is perception. The problem is global. The problem is the human condition. The problem is not “american whitey.”

  106. happy camper 2018-08-13 09:50

    No Porter there are many “minorities” walking away from the Democratic party cause they don’t accept your narrative.

    Mike, privilege has nothing to do with color it’s racist of you to say it does. India/Muslim versus Pakistan/Hindu endless list of inequality around the world – slavery has existed since the beginning of human existence. Civil Rights is a very new concept and no Libertarians have it right – simple equality for all no special protections, no quotas, etc. This is why Libertarianism makes the most sense. Civil, Classic, not the Ron Paul thing.

    Read about the history of slavery it’s very eye opening. Ugh. Horrible, but to point one finger at “white people” is ludicrous.

  107. Jenny 2018-08-13 09:50

    Mollie Tibbetts is an example of white privilege. It is nice she is getting name recognition but
    what about all the African American and Native American women that go missing each year? Why aren’t their names in the news? Aren’t they just as important?

    Also, thanks Randy Moss for wearing that tie on your Hall of Fame moment to increase awareness of blacks killed by police.

  108. Ryan 2018-08-13 10:25

    Jenny, lots of people of all races and genders go missing each year. Few get any attention, regardless of their characteristics. This Mollie Tibbetts situation is terribly sad and is an exception to the general rule that most people don’t pay attention to anybody but themselves. Her disappearance is a compelling mystery and she is a young good looking girl. She is not getting attention because she’s white, that is a coincidence.

  109. happy camper 2018-08-13 10:29

    Oh lord Jerry, the people on the right say the leftist media only cares about Black Lives Matter, now that darn leftist media is covering Mollie Tibbetts because of her white privilege. People are so twisted up it’s no wonder I’m a misanthrope – oh I mean Privileged White Guy. I gotta go to work – it’s fun to argue now and then – have a good day.

  110. happy camper 2018-08-13 10:32

    Oh, sorry, that was Jenny, not Jerry. You’re just as wrong privileged white girl.

  111. Porter Lansing 2018-08-13 10:51

    Happy, Ryan and Jason. You could live with, observe and study Indians every day for the rest of your life and you’d still never really know what it’s like to be Indian. Indian’s say you have white privilege. It’s undeniable!
    You also have the classic “Dakota Contrary” – “There’s nothing I can do about it, so why try.” attitude. I care about white privilege and I intend to do as much as I can to mitigate it.
    ~ Ryan, Jason and Happy Camper all know there’s another blog with people that agree with them. But, they choose to post here, obviously because they feel a need to convince liberals that their ideas are better. I personally feel little need to convince them of anything. Their vote and their minds appear made up. The floor is yours, boys.
    ~ Dem’s are solidly behind the message and intend to win Congress in November.

  112. Jenny 2018-08-13 10:54

    Where is all the money put up to find ‘young and good looking native American and African American girls, Ryan? You just said it – young and good looking.

    Same with the white guy that stole the plane. He had a mental illness so people feel bad for him. He was just a poor misunderstood nice, white Christian boy.
    If he had been a black Muslim = people would be all mad and disgusted.
    Meanwhile were is the rage for how easy it was for him to go do that? Where the heck was security????? After all the billions that have been spent on Homeland Security how could that have happened? Everyone is making excuses for him.

  113. Ryan 2018-08-13 11:16

    Jenny, feel free to donate money to any missing person fund you would like. I don’t know who donated all that money to help find that girl, but it has nothing to do with white privilege. Like I said, lots of white people are missing that you will never hear of and there are no six-figure funds for them.

    Also, I had not seen any mention of the plane-thief’s race or religion until you just brought it up. Maybe you are focusing on race and religion more than the rest of the world.

  114. Jenny 2018-08-13 11:22

    People like Ryan and HC are in such denial and the sad thing is, they don’t know they are. They are so far away from reality.

  115. Debbo 2018-08-13 11:33

    Agreed Jenny. It’s so ironic that their white privilege itself is what enables them to live in denial. It’s like fish living in the ocean denying that water exists.

    I give up on educating you boys, at least for now. Others more determined and energetic than me can try.

  116. mike from iowa 2018-08-13 11:35

    Now we are going down this rabbit hole-

    36 in the past 8 days, all front page daily stor….wait, what? They aren’t front page daily stories.

  117. Ryan 2018-08-13 12:12

    mike, that’s a pretty crazy list. Thanks for helping me prove my point to Jenny that being white is not why mollie is in the news every day. Lots of unknown missing folks of all sorts out there. Tragic stuff.

    jenny and debbo, you use the phrase “in denial” like it is a bad thing in this context. I deny the implication that either of you know what you are talking about, sure. You deny that I am correct in my opinions, so you two are also “in denial.” You two seem convinced that being a white male is the optimal gender and race for all people, but that is just your own internal feelings. Just because you two are apparently disappointed you weren’t born white males doesn’t mean everyone else blames race and gender for everything.

    You both seem like the type of people who blame traffic lights for being late to work rather than realizing you should leave the house a few minutes earlier.

  118. bearcreekbat 2018-08-13 12:33

    Interesting debate on white privilege. There is one factor that seems to be missing from the discussion: How do we explain the following discrepancies without reference to “white privilege?”

    Compare the percentages of non-white persons to the percentages of white persons:

    – in prison and jail

    – below the poverty line

    – receiving home loans

    – receiving business start up loans

    – in college

    – mortality rates

    – police shootings

    – birth problems

    – unemployment rates

    – achievement rates in school

    – pretrial detainees held pending trial

    – length of sentence for the same or comparable offenses

    If memory serves me correctly, minorities seem to do much worse than whites in all these (and other) categories. It would seem that such comparisons would provide significant evidence either for or against the determination whether white privilege exists, absent alternative explanations for any measureable differences.

  119. Jenny 2018-08-13 12:37

    “All of this hate mail I’m getting for wearing a tie and talking about the truth. But I can handle it because I’ve been dealing with racism my whole life. … But that’s fine because I can speak out. A lot of guys don’t feel comfortable doing that.”
    – Randy Moss on wearing a tie at his NFL Hall of Fame with the names of 13 black men and women killed by police

  120. mike from iowa 2018-08-13 12:42

    Dear Ryan, I am afraid my post went right over yer head, again. All those other missing children are not front page news everyday, not even the white ones. So what makes Mollie Tibbetts good looking, young, white girl front page news?

  121. Ryan 2018-08-13 13:44

    mike, your post apparently went over your own head. Jenny thinks Mollie is getting attention because she is white. I said lots of missing white people don’t get attention. The article you linked confirms the fact that lots of missing white people aren’t getting any attention. Were you waterboarded as a child or something?

    bcb – that was quite a list. I think there are a lot of variables in play for each item you mentioned. Race is probably a factor in some. I didn’t think about it until you made the list, but it would be interesting to see the numbers among races and genders for all of those things, but not just in a “white versus other races” comparison, but in a “race versus race versus race” comparison. What I am getting at is this – is it really “white privilege” or just “privilege.”

    My thought process on this is complex, but it’s a complex issue: When it comes to american citizens who appear to be of asian descent, are they more or less likely to be in college than citizens who appear to be of african descent? Then compare that to those who appear hispanic. Then compare that to those who appear native american. Then cross-reference gender. Keep economic factors in mind. When considering all these factors, is it really white males that come out ahead in each category? I don’t think so. Without doing the research, I would make some guesses: women receive lighter sentences for the same crimes as men; asian folks in the US have higher education than non-asian folks; white folks in the US probably have fewer home loans per capita than asians; white folks probably have higher unemployment rates than some specific races; white people are probably shot by cops more often than asians per capita. If you just make it a “white versus other races” comparison, the truth gets lost in the vagueness.

  122. Porter Lansing 2018-08-13 13:56

    American culture conditions white folk to not fully grasp how society privileges them. They are surrounded by the pieces of the puzzle. But they have been miseducated on how to complete the image that portrays their racial group in an unflattering light.
    American culture has taught whites to believe they represent the intellectual and cultural vanguard, to conclude that racial inequalities cannot be traced to their past or present behavior and to view their dominant status — their privilege — as natural.

  123. bearcreekbat 2018-08-13 14:12

    Ryan, first your comments about the treatment of Asians is worth exploring. It seems that the idea that Asians have better results than blacks in education, employment, and other settings seems to be a frequent fact used to challenge the idea of white privilege. Yet, there is apparently much more to the story. A recent N.Y, Times artivle addresses some of these issues.

    Some observations from the article:

    . . . Asian-Americans have been among the most vocal and visible opponents of race-based affirmative action policies, creating a popular perception that they are at odds with black and Latino people, who remain underrepresented in many elite educational institutions. But that framing obscures the reality of national surveys that show that most Asian-Americans favor affirmative action in education. Many find solidarity with other minorities. . . .

    Southeast Asian communities, for instance, have high rates of poverty and their interests often align with black and Latino communities on affirmative action and other social justice causes. South Asians, who surveys show are often not perceived as Asian, are among the highest earners and educational achievers; they are also strong supporters of affirmative action. They report experiencing more discrimination than other Asians in the United States. . . .

    Black and Asian-American people have often been pitted against one another over the years, dating to the mid-20th century, when white people praised the work ethic and ability of Asian-Americans as a way to disparage the African-American struggle. . . .

    “The question of how Asian-Americans are positioned relative to black people is a very serious and important question that Asian-Americans have not grappled with,” Professor Kim said. “Asians in general are getting certain types of advantages by not being black.”

    That is not to discount the ugly history of violence, racism and exclusion that Asian-Americans have and continue to endure. Studies have found that Asian-Americans are the least likely of any race to be promoted to management roles in the professional world. They have the highest poverty rates in some communities. And some Asian-Americans say their causes usually get little mainstream political support. . . .

    The entire article is well worth the read.

  124. mike from iowa 2018-08-13 14:19

    Poor Ryan, not all those missing are white- get it? There are POC missing. Do you understand that? If you do we are making progress. Now tell me why those missing non-white kids aren’t daily front page news when a white girl is.

    It couldn’t appear to be more obvious why children of color aren’t on the front page every day.

    Women, on average receive less time than even white men, but Black men receive more time than whitey for the same crime. Nope no white privilege here.

  125. Ryan 2018-08-13 14:29

    OK mike, try it a fourth time (fifth…?) Tell me why all of those white kids on the list have never been on tv? Same reason all of other kids have never been on tv. Now, tell me how mollie’s race has anything to do with the attention she is receiving, in light of the fact that lots of other people of her same race are missing and are receiving no attention. Maybe it’s white privilege? Oh wait, there are lots of white people on the list who you and I have never heard of. Maybe it’s girl privilege. Oh wait, there are other girls on the list, too. I don’t know why mollie is receiving this much coverage, but I am confident it is not her skin color.

    bcb – i think your comment and that article support my underlying theory: privilege is variable. Does “white privilege” exist? Yes, sometimes. Does “chinese privilege” exist? Yes, sometimes. Does male privilege exist? Does female privilege exist? Yes, of course. Privilege exists in every walk of life, in every city, every day, but the characteristics that create privilege are not always white skin and a penis.

  126. mike from iowa 2018-08-13 14:30

    From bcb’s link- If they’re sending the message that Asians are actually less personable and less likable and generally less human than other people, that’s why it’s O.K. to exclude them from these places, then of course young Asian-Americans are going to grow up internalizing that message,”

    I imagine Native Americans can tell some stories about being considered less human and having this drivel internalized by generations of young personable Indian children.

  127. mike from iowa 2018-08-13 14:33

    Maybe it’s white privilege? Oh wait, there are lots of white people on the list who you and I have never heard of. Maybe it’s girl privilege. Oh wait, there are other girls on the list, too. I don’t know why mollie is receiving this much coverage, but I am confident it is not her skin color.

    You eliminated all possible avenues for you to crawl down rabbit holes and are left with white privilege.

  128. mike from iowa 2018-08-13 14:36

    Ryan, me old piglet, what is the one defining characteristic of white privilege that no other race has? You know this.

  129. Ryan 2018-08-13 14:53

    mike, go slow and see if you can keep up:

    If mollie’s coverage is due to white privilege, why have none of the other white people on that list received any media attention?

    Try not to hurt yourself in dancing around an answer.

  130. mike from iowa 2018-08-13 15:03

    Ryan, try to keep up, if it isn’t white privilege why aren’t any children of color on the front page?

  131. Ryan 2018-08-13 15:17

    mike, i can’t tell anymore if you are actually as dense as you come across, or if you like to use nonsense to confuse people.

    If all the missing white kids got media attention and the missing kids who aren’t white received less attention, it would seem to be a race issue. Since one person is receiving media attention and 35 others aren’t, with presumably numerous races represented, I don’t see how you can pick one characteristic of the attention-receiver and claim that is the reason for the attention, despite the fact that most of the rest of the non-attention-receivers share that characteristic and received no attention.

  132. mike from iowa 2018-08-13 15:31

    I don’t see how you can pick one characteristic of the attention-receiver and claim that is the reason for the attention, despite the fact that most of the rest of the non-attention-receivers share that characteristic and received no attention.

    How can you dismiss it, since not all the rest are white?

  133. Ryan 2018-08-13 15:43

    mike, here you go:

    you have supper 36 days in a row;
    on 20 of those days you had a glass of milk with supper;
    you felt fine 35 out of 36 days;
    you were sick one out of the 36 days.

    Would you think the milk made you sick, or is it more likely that it was something else? If you blame the milk, you are ignorant.

  134. Jenny 2018-08-13 15:50

    Ryan wants to think that there could never ever ever be white privilege. He wants to believe that well, maybe just a little bit there is some white privilege if you are a pretty girl, but it’s not really that big of a problem. You are not going to win your argument on here, Ryan. Go over to the War Toilet, they will gladly take your side over there.
    I am disappointed in you, Ryan. You usually have a good read when it comes to philosophical issues. You are wrong on this. I know you have probably read a book or heard stories from your grandpa about the nonsense of white privilege that you are deadest against the thought that it could be true.
    If white men and women could be a native American or black person for a day in America, then maybe they would see things in a different light.
    There has never and I mean never been this much coverage on a black girl or Native American girl missing, and you know it.

  135. OldSarg 2018-08-13 16:57

    Okay,I’m at a crossroads. After reading all these comments since this morning it is clear to me we have one group that thinks everything is unfair and one that thinks the rest of you need to grow up and accept your own shortfalls in life. I can’t fix and neither can any of you so just grow up. Life is unfair but how you handle it is a mark of maturity. Whining is not.

  136. mike from iowa 2018-08-13 17:45

    Ryan, R U on drugs? OldSnakebite yer analogy is dumber than Ryan’s, but I’m certain he is on drugs.

    You can’t fix it because you won’t admit it exists, let alone that people could have a problem with it.

  137. Ryan 2018-08-13 18:07

    mike, definitely. I’m on drugs.

    Jenny, you are disappointed in your own imagination. I never said white privilege doesn’t exist. I just said it is not absolute or exclusive. Pick any country or state or region in the world, check out the most populous skin tone in that area, and a similarly-colored person will enjoy more social and cultural acceptance there than a person who visually stands apart from the majority or plurality. It’s not a US problem and not a white person issue, it’s global and variable. You have been hyped up by people with their own motives. Go think for yourself a while. It’s incredible.

  138. Porter Lansing 2018-08-13 18:16

    If you’ve ever seen a white person in Asia and how they’re treated there, you’ll have no doubt White privilege exists all over the world, if not globally. China feels like White privilege on steroids. It’s not really detectable as a white person in USA and western countries. Much of the time, white privilege in the West is just getting treated with the respect everyone should get, but doesn’t. But in China it’s obvious and blatant and even a little overwhelming at times.
    The historical reasons are clear, too. Although in the US, for instance, white privilege derives from the legacy of slavery, it exists globally for a slightly different reasons. For most of living memory, White has been synonymous with rich, developed, and culturally influential countries, Europe and North America and the British empire. So white people get stereotyped in those ways, people treat them favourably as a result, and that’s global white privilege. – Ben Smith, former ESOL Teacher at Jiangsu Institute of Economic and Trade Technology

  139. Ryan 2018-08-13 21:24

    Ok, here’s a quote from a different total stranger on the internet that says the opposite:

    “Any country that incorporates a race component in its legal system is racist. Conversely, a lack of race components makes the country itself not racist, but there is no guarantee that a portion of its inhabitants are not racist.

    “However, application of law can have consequences for people of a certain race disproportionately to others based on non-race components such as economic class or nationality. For example, have you ever lived in a country where gaining access to necessary resources (a place to live, telephone service, credit, etc) depends on having a ‘guarantor’? They are not racist in themselves, however if it is not possible to find someone you know who can act as a guarantor, you have severely limited options in life. These issues can be reduced if you have enforced laws against discriminating against people based on religion, creed, national origin and the like. White people can be caught up in that just as anyone else, especially when they are a minority. There are many places in the world where you’ll see openly posted “we don’t serve or rent to foreigners” – and any place that allows that, and whites are typically foreigners, then what do you have?

    So yes, you’ll find racism towards whites in many countries where whites are a minority.”

    Convinced of my position? No? I’m not convinced of yours, either.

  140. Porter Lansing 2018-08-13 21:56

    Ryan … I’ll defer to Jack Nicholson ~ “I’m not concerned about what you believe. I don’t think about you at all.”

  141. Debbo 2018-08-13 23:29

    Porter, my hero. 😁

  142. Ryan 2018-08-14 08:14

    porter, you put a lot of effort into not thinking about me.

    debbo, you believe that angels are real. porter being a hero makes the same amount of sense.

  143. Ryan 2018-08-14 19:57

    If you are suggesting it’s due to her skin color, you have to at least try to justify why all the other missing people with her same skin tone have received no media attention whatsoever.

  144. OldSarg 2018-08-28 18:45

    mike in idiocy: No, it is not illegal just because you don’t like something. The President is not subject to the Hatch Act. Neither is Pence so when you spew your hate at him it still won’t work.

  145. Cory Allen Heidelberger Post author | 2018-08-28 19:09

    The ACLU helps everyone, even ammosexuals:

    The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) threw its weight behind the National Rifle Association (NRA), filing an amicus brief on the gun rights group’s behalf in its lawsuit against New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D).

    The ACLU’s action comes after the NRA filed a lawsuit earlier this year against Cuomo and New York’s financial regulation agency, alleging a “blacklisting campaign” aimed at getting banks to cut ties with the gun group.

    “In the ACLU’s view, targeting a nonprofit advocacy group and seeking to deny it financial services because it promotes a lawful activity (the use of guns) violates the First Amendment,” ACLU legal director David Cole wrote in his announcement of the filing on Friday.

    “If the NRA’s charges are true, the state’s actions would clearly violate the First Amendment,” Cole wrote [Megan Keller, “ACLU Backs NRA in Lawsuit Against New York Governor,” Governing, 2018.08.28].

  146. bearcreekbat 2018-08-28 20:14

    It looks to me like OS misses mfi’s point. Trump apparently is encouraging preachers to violate the rules for 503(c)(3) religious tax exemption status that the preachers’ have sworn to uphold in their application and yearly filings in support of continued tax exempt status. Thus, mfi has not accused Trump of violating the Hatch Act. Rather mfi seems to be asking whether Trump is trying to create some conspiracy among preachers to violate IRS regulations.

  147. Debbo 2018-08-28 20:33

    Preachers telling their congregations how they should vote is just about as destructive to Christianity as the Roman Catholic Church’s child trafficking scandal.

    Shame on those “preachers” for even being there. I doubt even one of them was surprised by his suggestion.

  148. Debbo 2018-08-28 20:36

    ” a nonprofit advocacy group.” Now that’s funny. I realize the ACLU is using the NRA’s legal status, but that’s what makes it funny — in a sarcastic/ironic way.

  149. Debbo 2018-08-28 20:54

    Speaking of the “Holy Roman Kiddie Diddlers”, Marty Two Bull’s is a member of the OST and lives on the Pine Ridge. He draws editorial cartoons that are usually outstanding. His latest concerns those in the backwards collar who victimized children and women on the reservations.

  150. Porter Lansing 2018-08-28 21:07

    WOW, Deb. I’m a frequent reader of GoComics (All the hard to find cartoons are there. Even Hagar the Horrible.) I didn’t know Marty Two Bulls was from the Ridge. Thanks for the 411.
    From what I read, Catholics are in turmoil. The over zealous haters on DWC (and their ilk) are trying to oust the Pope. Not because of the abused kids but because of the Pope’s liberal love of humanity.

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