State Historical Society chief Ben Jones works a little Christofascism into his discussion of a possible revamp of South Dakota’s flag, which currently includes the state seal and the Christian-specific state motto:
The state seal also includes the state motto, “Under God the people rule,” which Jones said has seen some controversy.
“Sometimes the meaning of those things, some people take that in ways it’s not intended,” Jones said. “If it was understood in the manner of Thomas Jefferson and then the state founders meant it, as a secular reminder of where our rights come from, even the deist Jefferson thought they were created by ‘the creator.’ I think that’s important politically because if the government didn’t give you your rights, the creator did, then the government can’t take them away. I think that’s a key part that’s in our flag that isn’t in other state flags” [Makenzie Huber, “‘Let It Speak for Us’: Legislator Plans to Pursue South Dakota Flag Redesign,” South Dakota Searchlight, 2023.12.10].
No, Ben, you don’t get to slip your personal religious belief into formal state doctrine. We don’t need your God or any other to posit the notion of rights. Absent government, we have no rights—i.e., we have no enforceable claim to life, liberty, or property. Supernatural beings generally don’t drop in to stop muggers and marauders from swiping our apples or our children. Gods have proven pretty useless at enforcing claims. Thus, we collaborate on the earthly plane to create and operate institutions that really do give us enforceable claims, that allow us to say, “Hey, those are my apples and my kids, and you don’t get to take them away. I don’t just have those things; I have a right to keep those things.”
And because of the nature of the deal we strike with each other to establish rights, we do empower our government to take rights away from those who don’t respect the deal. If you steal my apples, you lose your right to move freely about the community. You lose your right to some of the cash you may have earned as you pay a fine to the government to pay for the trouble it had to go to bring you to justice and get my apples back.
Dr. Jones’s sly theism is at best irrelevant to the discussion of rights. Whether or not God or Gods or the Flying Spaghetti Monster injected “rights” into their creation, those supernatural beings do nothing to actualize those rights. To make rights stick, to make this talk of rights meaningful, we human beings institute governments amongst ourselves to escape a state of constant fear and conflict and enjoy civil life and practical liberty.
“Under God the people rule” is just a slogan Jones and his fellow dominionists use to elevate their personal religion and bully believers of other stripes or no stripes to get with their program or sit on the sidelines of society. But our daily experience shows that his vaunted motto would more accurately read, “Maybe we’re under God, but that absent God is apparently too busy to give a darn, so we have to rule ourselves.”
Very good article.
The US is a secular nation, one of the few without a national religion. And it must be that way if those that are religious want freedom of religion.
But with that also comes freedom _from_ religion :)
Was this Ben Jones the “Cooter Davenport” from Dukes of Hazzard tv? Used to be a blue dog Dem in Georgia for one term?
Well, of course, people read into the state motto whatever they want. I’m sure that many folks believe the God part, and many folks believe the people rule part. And some people believe both. Certainly the Republicans have made it clear that, if the people overrule their corrupt misrule, the government, not God and not the people rule.
As far as the state flag makeover in 1992, I never gave it one thought. It was a branding issue, and not an issue that was going to unify the state. I had more important, and divisive issues I was involved in, such as keeping South Dakota from being the nation’s garbage dump. My opinion: take the current flag, excise the state seal, have a stylized blue river running through the middle of the sun, and take out all the lettering. Keep it simple. Of course, neither water nor the sun has been a unifying issue in South Dakota. People fight over things constantly. Don’t be so naive that any flag is going to unify the state.
Uncle Shelby nails gawd’s proper demeanor as regards magats….
https://nukabombshideout.blogspot.com/2011/05/vengeance-is-mine-poem-by-shel.html
Last time I checked, the God of the Christians, Jews, and Muslims was the same God and not three different ones as noted that all three religions accept the first five books of the Old Testament as part of their scripture. All three major religions and their followers go their separate ways after that. Jefferson wrote in the Declaration of Independence that “governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.” I would suggest Dr. Jones emphasize “the consent of the governed” if he plans to redesign our state flag.
“Under God the people rule” = “God’s work must truly be our own.”
How about…The Sunshine State?”
Donald, you have a way of acknowledging reality that Cory has
not yet mastered.
There’s no need to fear,
Underdog is here.
“Buddhism is a faith that was founded by Siddhartha Gautama—also known as “the Buddha”—more than 2,500 years ago in India. With an estimated 500 million to one billion followers, scholars consider Buddhism one of the major world religions. As a non-theistic faith with no god or deity to worship, some scholars describe Buddhism as a philosophy or a moral code rather than an organized religion.” https://www.history.com/topics/religion/buddhism
How about “South Dakota, be ____________.”
Under people, the people rule?
Under wisdom, the people rule?
Under anarchy, each person rules and does not infringe upon any person.
Under capitalism, everyone with a nickel rules?
We have driven the fascists out! In South Dakota everyone rules!
A lot of choices for new mottos!
With a good enough motto, maybe the lag-islature can be re engineered and given less powers?
Lag-islature. Job is to lag and be late. Instead of budget and laws, budget is passed only by majority vote of voters in March and laws are only made laws after voters vote in March, each law will be a line item yes or no vote. Each lag-islater term limited to max of 4 years total
Governor. More ceremonial than before. Governor never signs laws or budget, the people vote yes or no on each law and budget. Each Governor term limited to one 2 year term.
Supreme Court. 10 year terms only. May rule on newly people ratified law after law has been in effect 6 months.
Motto. Biggest branch of government is Motto and People. Motto can only be changed by Majority vote of people. Governor , Lag and Court have maybe 30% power, People have 70%. Motto can be sold on bumperstickers too. Laws and budget only get passed by vote of people in March.
Government should be ceremonial. People have the power under a good motto and vote in March affirming or denying laws and budget
How ‘bout we change the motto to reflect our current reality: “Under GOP the people are ruled.”
The STATES agreed to establish a full-time, permanent Central Government as long as it does NOT create a National Religion, nor Disrespect the Peoples Rights to Organize their Own Religoun. There is NO Separatation of Church and State in America, we simply restricted the Federal Govt in intervening in our natural right to organize Our People in the Name of Religion. We do this throughout our Individual, Sovereign, and Indepednent States. Since a STATE is in fact WE THE PEOPLE aka the Republic of South Dakota, We the Peope adopted Our Preamble to the S.D Constitution in 1889 to be an oath, a pledge to Our Lord, God Almighty, to whom Created us, to whom provided to all of us our Natural Unliegnable Rights, and to whom gave to the PEOPLE the authority to govern themselves and to create their own State Government, County Administrations, and Local Cities, Township, and School Units of Government. Article 6 of the United States Constitution protects our right to form our own Republic as we so desire, and the PRESIDENT is chosen, elected by a Group of Electors to are then sent to a National Convention by the Qualified Voters of OUR REPUBLIC to cast ballots for our choice of a National Executive, to whom Protects, Preserves, and Defends that U.S Constitution, to which restricts the Federal Government to 4 delegations of power given to it by the Republic of States – Foreign Affairs, Monetary, Immigration, and National Defense of Our Common Borders.
We the People of the People of the Republic aka 50 States, are ABOVE the Federal Government, so remember that, next time you attack the people.
WE are a Christian, Predominanty Protestant State made up of German Lutherans, Scottish Prysbertians, and the Tribe of Dan…
Hey Mike Z.,
According to your plan, what will happen to federal prisoners once you sucessfully complete your revolution/coup against the Federal government?
Under Zitt the people spit.
Chris, I never described a coup, nor did I defined the current period of years 2007 to 2040 as a Second Revolutionary Period with all the idealogical divisions being played out today. In my plan, in whch you are asking, is utilizing the mechanism built into our Founding Documents, to transfer power from the current government, to the new government. In a well organized plan, this transfer takes proceeds by means of a well, orchestrated plan, usually adopted by the State’s themselves by means of resolutions, ordinances, and schedules. The Public Assets of the fedral government would be frozen, the Departments, Offices, Agencies, National Parks would be held in public trust, while the new government officials are elected ito their seats – Executive, U.S Senators, U.S Representatives, Secretaries, Managers, and Employees. Typically the current Secretaries, Managers, Agents, and Employees are transferred to the newly created Departments, Offices, Agencies, or where department of office is closed, their jobs are permanently closed. Keep in mind, typically a Provisional Government is put into place, while the transfer is being conducted. Usually takes a period of 5-10 years to be completed.
You do realize these mechanisms are used annually, cause Countys, Cities, and Other Public Organizations are often being transferred to newly creaed units of governments all the time. You realize, the Town of Sioux Falls and its assets was transferred to the City of Sioux Falls with the adoption of the Charter 1994, the transfer period took place between 1995-1999.
When did Sioux Falls become a city?
Sioux Falls History | Experience Sioux Falls
The village of Sioux Falls was incorporated in 1876 and became a city in March
Now tell us where in the constitution are the words kristian or god?
The village of Sioux Falls was incorporated in 1876 and became a city in March of 1889.
Mike, when one makes decisions based on belief instead of fact, one tends to be wrong. Beliefs become a huge problem when making legislation. I don’t care what one believes as long as those beliefs aren’t putting up stupid laws that affect me or the 10 tribes.
Wrong, wrong, wrong..
The People of Dubuqe Iowa formed the Dubuque Land Company in 1856, which became the Western Town Company the following years. They drafted, and adopted a charter, to establish the Village of Sioux Falls, and it was approved in 1857 by the Iowa Territorial Legislature. They come to the Big Sioux County in and claim 320 acres of land, and begin their village.
There was also a Group of Businessmen, Democrat Politicians, and Investors who formed and chartered a company called Dakota Land Company out of St. Paul, MN – they arrived about a year later, and claimed 320 acres of land just south of the first establishment called Sioux Falls City.
These two groups operated their Organizations from 1857 to 1866 whereas during the Dakota War of ,62 the two towns became abandoned, and plundered by the Natives, the residents moved back to their original states.
Between 1872-75, Wilmot W Brookings and George Sceney acting as agents of the Western Town Company come back to the area, this time after the organization of Dakota Territory, and reseed, and plant their residency back into the area, Incorporating themselves as the Village of Sioux Falls. They would be acting under the original 1857 Iowa Charter, but began to draft, write, and publish a new charter, to which Mr. Brookings would petition the Dakota Territory Legislature, to hold a Special Session to formally adopt, and create the City of Sioux Falls. This took place during the winter of 1883-84, and once complete they held a common election of all 21 Year Old Males, to whom had resided in Dakota Territory for at least 90 days, and this qualified them to elect a Mayor, and 4 Alderman, 1 per each of the 4 wards, and together, appointed a City Attorney, Engineer, Treasurer, Clerk, Secretary, etc.
This Government was put into place for the period between 1884 to 1902, while the People of Sioux Falls then under the State Constitution, adoped and changed their form of government again, by transferring all powersto a Commission Form of Government (1902-1994).
As Sioux Falls grew, it annexed and incoporated East Sioux Falls, Sioux Falls, and West Sioux Falls, as well as other lands held by Homesteaders, Farm-Steaders, and other People, creating a Municipality in 1972, and this leads us to the 5th Form of Government for Sioux Falls.
Between 1987 to 1993, the Concerned Citizens of Sioux Falls, led by the Downtown Corporation, Foward Sioux Falls, the Greater Chamber Commerce of Sioux Falls, and Sioux Falls Development Foundation came together to discuss drafting, writing, and publishing a Home Rule Charter, thus creating the current Strong Mayor, Strong City Council form of Government to which the qualified voters adopted in 1994. This transfer of power transpired between 1995 to 1999 and once in place, We then adopted a Planning, Zonning Ordinence in 2013, the 2040 Shape Sioux Falls Plan, and installed many Steering Committees within the City of Sioux Falls, as well as Establishing Our Enterprise Funds – Sioux Falls Utilities, Public Parking, Landfill, Water and Sewer, etc.
As you can see, 5 Different Governments have been created to operate the City of Sioux Falls as a Public Organization.
The Western Town Company, a Group of IOWANS laid down our Government Form of Organized Government, and
The Investors of the Dakota Land Company a group of Minnesotans laid down, and created the foundation for our Economic Development.,
This Group of Landowners, Property Holders then allow Americans to come to Sioux Falls to reside and transact business as as Residents
Lets also pay homage to the people of Dakota Land Company, they were a Organization of Business, Democrat Politicians to who also came to beknown a conspirators, they made up fictional precincts, and voters in make beleived towns, to which led to getting may Democrats elected in Minnesota, giving us sense of prophecy of things to come that the Democrat Party was corrupt, manipulative, and conspiring to steal elections. Mindless to say, the Dakota land Company went broke during the Panic of 1873, and ceased to exist by the year 1868.
Another side note, under the laws of Dakota Territory, it was forbidden for white people to marry black people, and it was legal for a 16 year old male to marry, as well as the age for females to marry was 14 years of age.
I print more truth in 4 sentences than the troll does in half a novel. epo wins the internets again.
Mr. Ziterich-this country is not going to revoke the Constitution and revert to the failed and discredited Articles of Confederation. Even Patrick Henry, after extensive lobbying by George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, rejected the Articles of Confederation and supported the adoption of the Constitution. In my 76 years, you are the only person I have ever known who expressed a preference for the Articles of Confederation.
Mr. Jones joins with Mr. Zitterich in proposing the supremacy of a brand of “muscular Protestantism” to replace our Constitutional preference for tolerance of Religious belief. Like Mr. Pay, I find our present State Motto as relatively and historically benign and in line with our Constitutional Rights. Better to leave well enough alone.
At least Mike commented on a black person without discussing the size of their lips or comparing them to apes. PROGRESS. Good decision to keep Mike here, Cory. VALUABLE. CONTRIBUTIONS.
‘Under government the people rule’? ‘The people rule under government’? Nah, just doesn’t have a nice ring to it.
Better consult Hallmark on this one, or have that AI guy that posts here run it through his contraption.
Over the People the Dollar Rules
‘Wokeism stills a bleating heart’
Mike Z. A tyrannical Dakota territorial government violated the constitutional rights of white people as well as black people by passing laws that prevented blacks and whites from marriage. I believe that law extended to Chinese and perhaps to other nationalities as well, but, interestingly, not to Native Americans. I suppose that was because there was quite a lot of intermarriage between whites and Indians, and to do so would have invalidated many relationships. That law, of course, violated the Constitution, and all such laws were invalidated by Loving v. Virginia. About three years before that Supreme Court case, South Dakota Legislature passed a law repealing that miscegenation law. It was sponsored by Herb Heidepriem, a Republian.
May the Lord Open.
I say we pay tribute to Kurt Vonnegut Jr. (who has nothing to do with SD): “So it goes.” I would also advocate for the Vonnegut asterisk: ” * “
Kurt Vonnegut was a faculty member of the prestigious iowa’s writers workshop at the U of iowa which everyone knows is right next door to Northern Mississippi, O.
Where did Kurt Vonnegut live in Iowa?
LitCity
800 North Van Buren St.
During his time in Iowa City, Kurt Vonnegut lived at 800 North Van Buren St. — a Victorian brick mansion in the tree-lined Brown Street neighborhood of northside Iowa City. In this house, Vonnegut began his work on Slaughterhouse-Five.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident…all men are… endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men.”
nb: “That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men.”
Cory rules: “…those supernatural beings do nothing to actualize those rights. To make rights stick, to make this talk of rights meaningful, we human beings institute governments amongst ourselves to escape a state of constant fear and conflict and enjoy civil life and practical liberty.”
Problems, Arlo?
I wonder what Mr. Zitterich’s precinct flag is. I’m guessing a mollusk of some sort, on a field of tie-dye.
A piston surrounded by the gadsden flag and various psychotropic medications.
Maybe we could have topical state flags that reflect the administration of the moment. For instance, with the Noem administration the flag could have a photo of cowgirl Kristi pointing a gun at us, over a motto that reads: “I channel God, so this is how it’s going to go down, pardner.”
IF I created a Precinct Flag, it would be a white flag, with the GERMAN-LUTHERAN CROSS with the “Ulster-Scott Yellow Shield/Red Lion in the middle of it” representing the House of Zarah..
You absolutely should create a Precinct Flag, Mr. Zitterich. Representing the House of Zarah, for sure.
I can get a bunch of bed sheets sent to you. I will just buy them on the Amazon and have them mailed to your former business.
Am I remembering correctly
In the New Testament it states
Render Unto Cesar that which is
Cesar’s and God that which is Gods.
For all people the Heavens are above
Many believe God is above that.
Under the Heavens the People Rule.
Many people think that God Rules thru the Heavens. However that doesn’t explain Hitler, Pol Pot, Jim Jones or even our former President.
Interesting that when things are the way they want it’s God when not then we try to get “our way” by asking God but not blame humanity.
John Adams is quoted as saying ,”Our constitution was made only for a moral
and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the governance of any other.”
(possibly paraphrasing)
The godless and immoral fellows, like grudznick and my close personal friend Lar and my good friend Bob, probably don’t fit that bill of lading. Bob for sure, what with the moral clause.
Mikey – the charter form of city self-organization (Sioux falls and 10 others of various sizes use the charter forms) is PRESCRIBED BY STATE law as an alternative for those municipalities with enough gumption and intelligence to make some different operating rules for themselves. to the state provided TEMPLATE that is simply adapted by those without enough time or ambition to design their own corporate structure and rules. I.E., there is no “transfer” of authority – just an ALLOWANCE for a different structural template. The ultimate or eminent source of authority for both forms is the SAME ONE – The State. As usual, you attempt to insert some sort lack of dependency where there is none. https://www.sdmunicipalleague.org/index.asp?Type=B_PR&SEC=%7B33E9C767-2065-4201-8F6B-DBDA8625A402%7D&DE=%7B8ED171C6-7486-4770-B412-C99E60303C64%7D
Oh, and FWIW, I, as a NON-CITIZEN of Sioux Falls (living in a different municipality altogether) have been part of the committee(s) engaged in the various Shape Sioux Falls policy development processes. Not for hire as a consultant, but as volunteer from outside of town whose voice was intentionally included, specifically for the purpose of providing an outside perspective.
John Adams said, “Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” Morality and virtue are the foundation of our republic and necessary for a society to be free.
I would also remind us of Jon Stewart’s wise words about our founding fathers: they were slave owners who pooped in buckets. The point is that they were imperfect men, so let’s not deify them or over-import their views.
The story of how Sioux Falls, S.D was established really began in Northern Europe, and as they began to migrate to America between 1600-1700, they began to form their own beliefs, foundations, and organizations to what would lead them to further migrate westward into what would become known as Dakota Territory. This is an interesting story of a people, who may be able to trace their ancestory to the Ancient Israelites, and the Laws of Moses.
The Story of Sioux Falls truly begins as far back as the year 1620, a year that two groups of people began to migrate to America. The Ulster-Scots and the German-Lutherans to came to America to start a new life, and over the years, they gradually migrated westward to escape persecution, to which led to forming colonies of people, to what would become known as Dakota Territory. Below, is a google document to this complete, and narrative story, if you like to obtain a p.d.f document, send an email to the address listed below:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTv-FNeyMFnHIv2fPU_DZY4vGfOdNOOCgWeydyLozvBPvUdbTfq4uOLf0_KcRgH7J-lTBHa0j67RZW0/pub?urp=gmail_link
The Story of Sioux Falls,
Mike Zitterich
zitterich76@gmail.com
Imagine pulling a clan up the Little Missouri River in dugout canoes 12,000 years ago.
Exploiting the gap between the Cordilleran and Laurentide ice sheets during the Wisconsin Glacial Episode those Clovis People were the first humans to see the Missouri Buttes and Devils Tower. They settled Paradise only to have their descendants watch it be destroyed by colonization. The tower, a remnant of an intrusive laccolith, has been called Mahto Tipila or Bear Lodge for centuries by the Lakota.
Restoring the dignity of endangered cultures is one tiny part of eliminating American Indian suicides and despair in South Dakota and Wyoming.
Of course, the South Dakota Democratic Party should urge President Biden to dissolve the Black Hills National Forest, move management of the land from the US Department of Agriculture into the Department of Interior; and, in cooperation with Bureau of Indian Affairs Division of Forestry and Wildfire Management, rename it Okawita Paha or He Sapa National Monument eventually becoming part of the Greater Missouri Basin National Wildlife Refuge. Mato Paha (Bear Butte), the associated national grasslands and the Sioux Ranger District of the Custer/Gallatin National Forest should be included in the move.
It’s time for the State of South Dakota to abandon Bear Butte State Park that it claimed through colonization and remand it to the tribes for governance so they can restore its name to Mato Paha and for the US Park Service to add the name Mahto Tipila to Devils Tower National Monument.
No. Devils Tower is a way more neat-o name.
Mr. Ziterich–Wrong again…While there were a minority of Ulster Scots…ie Scotch Irish…that is Scotsmen forcibly exported to northern Ireland by the English King to establish a sizable population loyal to England…who were among the many nationalities settling Dakota Territory, the vast majority of settlers were English Yankees from the New England states who had first settled in Wisconsin and Iowa, largely second, third, and down the line sons from large families looking for land of their own.Another substantial group, were men with families from a variety of ethnic backgrounds who had failed in the their first attempts at homesteading or business and who were looking for a second chance. For years, Dakota was known as the Second Chance Place, to make it big in farming or business. Second Chance folks were especially common in Sioux Falls and surrounding area.By the 1880’s the most common immigrant group were Germans from Russia who originally settled in Yankton and Hutchison counties but who quickly fanned out across what is now the state.Throughout the settlement period there was a steady influx of Irish Catholics “who came with the railroad” and settled nearly everywhere in the state, from Sioux Falls to the mining districts of the Black Hills. They had escaped the Great Famine and had a strong desire to own land and properties, which had been denied them by the English King.Scotch Irish Presbyterians also fanned out over the state…while Presbyterian Churches were common it was rare when a Presbyterian Church was the largest in a community. It was common in South Dakota for Presbyterians to merge with Episcopalian parishes and vice versa. Protestants from Great Britain were often heavily represented in the Merchant class. German, Norwegian, and Swedish Lutherans come during the late years of the Great Dakota Boom and just after statehood. They tended to settle in enclaves and kept some religious and social separation from other settlers, were mostly farmers, distrusting the English speaking business community, and kept their language and cultural norms longer than other immigrants, thus being seen as “backward.”
Arlo Blundt again proves Zit wrong. Upon arrival in America, my paternal English ancestors settled in Connecticut before moving west to the Milwaukee and Fond du Lac areas. In 1877, my second great aunt and her family moved to Sioux Falls, soon followed by my second and third great grandparents. My family is considered a “Pioneer Family” by the state because our ancestors settled here prior to statehood. When my maternal Swede-Finn ancestors arrived between 1887 and 1891, they all headed straight for northern Wisconsin and permanently settled there.
There is no Devils Tower in Sioux Falls, Mr. Zitterich, outside of that flower mill down by the water fall.
But I bet there are ungodly covens in the basements of the various Catholic churches, and those damnable “service clubs” like the Odd Fellows, the Lions, and the Shriners are in bed with the overgodders and the corporate monsters, no doubt. grudznick, myownself, knows a bunch of high-falooting business fellows who wear masks at night and are part of covens and witcheries in the basements of downtown Sioux Falls.
Yikes Grudznick…check the dosage and expiration date on your medications and consult a pharmacist
Mr. Blundt usually gives good advice, and grudznick often follows his advice.
Unfortunately, most of the pharmacists I know are Odd Fellows, or Shriners. And I really hate clowns at the circus.
Now really grudznick, is that healthy reasoning —-just keep your grip on things….or the front of your shirt will be covered with gravy
“We Do Not Agree On A Motto”. Put that on the flag
iowa’s guv Reynold’s Warp does not agree all religions should be expressed in iowas’s warped capitol bldg. A Satanic religious display was damaged by a Mississippi man.
https://www.kcci.com/article/satanic-temple-display-inside-iowa-capitol-building-damaged-beyond-repair/46133104#
drumpf loving guv calls satanic display outrageous. Seeing magats and their phony kristian values in the capitol is even more objectionable to me.
How ’bout we just eliminate the state slogan altogether?
Jones is playing fast and loose with his hypothetical “if” statement in “If it was understood in the manner of Thomas Jefferson…”
From truth tables,
If “p” then “q,” p can be false but q can still be true.
If q is false, however, we cannot imply that p is true.