Thune: Help Workers by Taking Away Overtime Protections, and Other Economic Bushwah
Published 2016-12-19 by
Cory Allen Heidelberger
Senator John Thune played David Novstrup on national TV yesterday, pretending that taking things away from workers is good for them. Asked by Fox’s Maria Martiromo what the Trump Administration should do in its first days, Senator Thune laid out this list of foolish policies:
Thune on Fox, 2016.12.18
Well I think, he has a really unique opportunity, Maria, because the previous administration did so many things by executive action that this president can come in and reverse and undo a lot of the damage that’s been done. He can, for example, approve the Keystone Pipeline very quickly, which would be immediately create a lot of jobs in the economy. He can roll back the Department of Labor overtime rules, which would be a devastating shot to the economy if they were implemented. So he could undo that damage, he could undo a lot of Obama administration’s attack on affordable energy that have been waged, largely through the EPA.
These are all things that have had a profound negative impact on the economy. Repealing and replacing Obamacare obviously is something that Congress will have to be involved with. We intend to be involved with that. We think that Obamacare has been extremely harmful across this country. Skyrocketing premiums and insurance markets collapsing and dwindling choices for consumers in this country, and so that’s something that needs to be dealt with on day one.
The issue of tax reform was mentioned earlier by Jason Miller. It’s a huge issue when it comes to getting the growth rate back in our economy. I think if this president focuses on getting that growth rate back up to three to four percent, creating better paying jobs, getting wages back up and policies that would create conditions that are favorable to that along the lines of those I just mentioned, I think you’ll have a lot of support among the American people and will enable him to do many of the harder things he’ll have to do down the road [Senator John Thune, on Fox’s
The Department of Labor also notes that the added wages and regulatory cost—the person-hour cost of every affected firm’s HR rep taking five minutes to look up the new overtime threshold; 75 minutes to make decisions, notify employees, and update payroll systems, and five minutes a week to monitor hours—won’t take any “devastating shot” at the economy:
The $1.2 billion in increased pay to employees and the $295 million in average annual direct costs to businesses will together result in roughly $1.5 billion dollars per year in increased payroll costs for businesses. But that’s well under one-tenth of one percent of total U.S. payroll costs, which in the aggregate are more than $6.5 trillion. (See pages 32496-32498 for details.) While the rule will have a meaningful effect for workers who see higher pay, work fewer hours, and/or gain clarity about their status as overtime-eligible, it will not have a disruptive effect on the broader economy [U.S. Department of Labor, Wage and Hour Division, “Overtime Final Rule: Summary of the Economic Impact Study,” 2016, p. 8].
Along with making 4.2 million employees eligible for overtime pay, the Obama Administration rule also gives greater protection to 8.9 million employees who qualify for overtime right now but aren’t getting it. 3.2 million of those workers are blue collar. The total 13.1 million employees helped by this rule make between $23,660 and $47,476. So President Obama’s overtime rule is another example of how we Democrats have been working for the working class all along; Senator Thune’s desire to take that overtime rule away from workers is another example of how Trumpist Republicans are fighting for the 1% to get our labor without paying full price.
Bonus Rebuttal! As if Senator Thune’s overtime propaganda isn’t bushwah enough, let’s knock down his other points:
WORKERS REPENT … It wasn’t we liberals who sent white working class jobs to Mexico. It was conservative business owners. It wasn’t we liberals who broke up your unions, stole your job security and kept your wages down. It was conservative business owners. It wasn’t we liberals who looked the other way while the rich got super-rich on 99% of the new wealth and the white working class got screwed. Liberals couldn’t be farther away from responsibility for the demise of the white working class. It was conservative selfishness that put you workers where you are and now you’re not we liberals problem any more. You voted us out and we liberals aren’t around Washington to blame, now. It’s high time the white working class got a mouthful of who’s really their masters. Take a long look at Trump’s cabinet and ask yourself, “Who among you is highly concerned about the white working class?” None of them are. Take a long look at John Thune and ask yourself, “Is he concerned about the white working class or is he concerned about the conservative business owners?” This will be a good four years for the bosses.
mike from iowa
Creating millions of jobs and getting people insured sure hurts the economy. No wonder wingnuts get elected to clean up Dems messes. Marlboro Barbie’s word salad is near as bad as Snowgrift Snookie’s word salad. Remedial English is the order of the day.
Darin Larson
Yes, of course, we have to pay workers less for the economy to flourish so workers can make more. It makes perfect sense. Just like Lightning McQueen has to turn right to go left on a dirt track:
Your presumption is that all of these people who were previously salaried want to become hourly employees and eligible for overtime. You are grossly incorrect. They enjoy the privilege of being able to work when the job requires them to work and be able to cut out early when there is nothing happening or work/answer emails from home. It was as ill-conceived, poorly received (by those it intended to benefit) as anything Obama did.
I know of one company who met with all their lower managers and presented a conforming plan. They were then asked if in the event the court case was successful (a Court put an injunction on it) they would have the option of going back to salary. 100% of the managers chose to go back to salary.
Darin Larson
Troy says “They enjoy the privilege of being able to work when the job requires them to work and be able to cut out early when there is nothing happening or work/answer emails from home.”
They can still do this, Troy. They just have to keep track of their hours.
Troy says “I know of one company who met with all their lower managers and presented a conforming plan. They were then asked if in the event the court case was successful (a Court put an injunction on it) they would have the option of going back to salary. 100% of the managers chose to go back to salary.”
Who is going to be the lower or mid-level manager who says, nah, “I know the company wants us to stay on salary so they can work us all the time, but I’m not a team player and I’d prefer hourly.” Thenceforth, count that person out of being promoted or good evaluations. They would immediately start hearing in their reviews that they are not enough of a team player and they don’t have what it takes to advance in the company.
Companies are exploiting these workers by calling them managers and working the heck out of them without commensurate compensation.
jerry
Troy, oh clever you. 100% of the managers chose to go back to salary. Duh. The rank and file got overtime protection because those managers abused the hell out of them. What Thune and you are doing is called a dog whistle. You know as well as me who this overtime benefited. Get up earlier.
Troy
Darin and Jerry,
I want to thank you for holding so strongly to the false impression you are doing good for others. People who like their job, understand their job and appreciate the terms of their employment with regard to the flexibility being salaried offers don’t appreciate your efforts to “do something” for them and disagree with you. But, you keep trying to force stuff down their throat (especially millenials) for sooner they’ll become committed Republicans.
Dicta
I think it’s a mistake to paint employees as 100% for or against the overtime protection stuff. Many of my coworkers who were moved to hourly were upset about it and enjoyed the flexibility salaried work offered them. They also weren’t raked over the coals on overtime, and probably worked 5 overtime hours a week on average, if that. Some of my friends working in other industries were thrilled about the law because their employers abused the hell out of overtime and worked them to the bone. As with damn near all policies: there are winners and losers here.
Darin Larson
So, you are not going to speak to the substance of what I took issue with in your previous statement?
I love it when Republicans claim to speak for the working class in the midst of tearing down protections for wage earners.
Moses6
Amazing coming from somebody who has never worked for a living.course if you have a piece of straw in your mouth standing between two bales of hay, and say ethanol, people will vote for you.
Moses6
AsI said before he is no thing but lip service and photo ops.
Darin Larson
Dicta, I agree. The question is should the exploitation of the workers that are abused by the no overtime provisions for “manager” be allowed to continue so that some workers that are not exploited get to continue a more flexible job schedule? Furthermore, why couldn’t the flexible job schedule for the latter group continue within certain parameters? If they are just working 5 hours of overtime a week, surely the company could work out something that would serve both the company and its workforce.
Porter Lansing
Troy tries to be funny and says,”Darin and Jerry,
I want to thank you for holding so strongly to the false impression you are doing good for others.”
~ As any liberal well knows, “When Troy comments on something a liberal has said, it means what the liberal has said is legitimate, factual, on target and is damaging to his Republican one-party oppression of South Dakota workers.”
Hear, hear Moses, Darin and Jerry. Keep up the good work. Let’s keep Troy backstroking until he hits the wall of the pool with his head. ~ Power To The Worker!!
Troy
Darin,
Take exception with all it means is they have to keep track of hours? Well, besides the reality neither they or their employer wants to watch their hours, they won’t have the flexibility to work light hours during the seasonal down-time knowing they have to work more hours during the busy season because the timeframe for overtime is during the two week period.
At the end of the day, large swaths of salaried people don’t want you getting in their business. And, I’m happy to accept them into the Republican Party. The reaction of millennials who like flexibility has been negative.
Dicta is right. Salaried people very often work 45 hours and they incorporate these expectations into their salary and accept it gladly in exchange for the flexibility they get. Nobody watches whether they take extra time at noon to run errands. Nobody cares if they leave early to miss rush hour traffic or go to a child’s event. Nobody monitors them if they really worked at home that evening.
Further, those employers who abuse their salaried employees lose those employees to better employers over time and ultimately are less successful. If some State believes there is “abuse” in a particular industry or type of job, they can deal with it as they see fit. But, the federal government moving the minimum of who can be salaried from under $25,000 a year to almost $50,000 a year for every business and type of job? Not well-received no matter how good your intentions.
Personally, I wish the judge hadn’t stopped it as an illegal over-reach of the US Department of Labor and these managers had had to have lived under it for at least six months. It would have done more to offend the millennials and moved them more firmly and quickly in the Republican camp.
Argumentum ad hominem – the claim that a position is incorrect or an argument invalid because of something not about the position but about the person taking it.
But, hey, if that is all the intellectual heft you got, you got to go with the best you have.
Porter Lansing
Troy Jones equals FAKE NEWS. This man has one agenda. To make the owners more money by holding the paychecks of workers hostage. Putting workers on salary and working them until their kids don’t recognize ’em makes owner’s profit line fatter and the worker half insane with overwork at underpaid jobs they can’t leave, just for a health insurance policy. Reject this conservative propaganda and join Democrats to fight the oppression.
jerry
First off, Thune is not speaking to South Dakota with his dog whistle. Troy hears it all to well and so do many others. The fact is that overtime mainly goes to minority workers, and that is not acceptable in today’s market. In South Dakota, just the one place? Hmmm, what is Thune representing? Who is he representing? Certainly not his constituents except the one. Who is that Troy? Poet?
Porter Lansing
Gotcha, didn’t I Troy? When you’ve claimed ad hominem, I’ve never lost an argument with you. It’s your last excuse after you’ve said something ridiculous.
Dicta
He’s not wrong, Porter, that you resorted to ad hominem. You literally fell back on “When Troy comments on something he disagrees with, you can assume the other person is right,” which I hope was satirical on your part. If you were serious, that is some mind-numbingly dumb reasoning.
Porter Lansing
DickTa … My statement wasn’t an argument. It was a statement to the readers about the person who posted before me. My opinion, if you will. No need to apologize.
jerry
How much revenue has the State of South Dakota received in payroll tax for the thousands of workers on the DAPL? The excise tax alone should be incredible for the state’s coffers. How much was made by the state Troy, without overtime?
Dicta
So it was a personal attack in lieu of an actual point. I guess you can admit it, at least. Also: DickTA! Get it boys and girls? He made a joke about me using a mnemonic device with my username! Hilarity!
o
Porter, while I agree wit the core of your original post, but Democrats’ hands are not clean. NAFTA and other trade agreements championed by two different Democratic presidents helped ease the movement of good-paying American Jobs to lower paying foreign factories. Now we see the very men that the Obama Administration chose not to prosecute for bank and securities fraud being picked for the Trump cabinet. The Democrats were not the watchdogs for the very people they speak to now – and that fact cost Secretary Clinton the election (and on her coattails, the Senate and House seats). Sanders, Warren, and others want to address some of this, but too much of the structure of both political parties has been coopted by those who profit from the exploitation and destruction of the US workforce.
“Trump/GOP is worse” doesn’t completely clean the Dem’s hands.
Porter Lansing
The joke is that you started a sentence with the word “so”. Yes, it was a personal observation that many don’t see as an attack but merely a confirmation of the obvious.
Porter Lansing
o … I’ve been waiting for that argument. If you’re saying that it was partially Dems fault for making it easier then I’m grasping what you’re asserting. Helping ease the movement is like putting a gun on the table and then blaming the manufacturer if it gets picked up and used to kill someone. Conservative businesses were already moving overseas before NAFTA. Cheap labor and the ability to pollute at will were so enticing that NAFTA only helped USA get something from the defection of businesses.
Porter Lansing
Dicta … one commenter’s “user name” is another commenter’s “anonymity shield against personal embarrassment”. If you’d use your real name, you’d get respect against auto-correction.
Troy
Dichta,
The last two subjects where i’ve gotten a response from Porter were basically: “If Troy says it, we are on the opposite side good liberals.” The guy can’t even figure out how to say “uh uh.”
Kinda fun having that much power over him. Thinking about saying I’m a Bronco fan. Throw him into a such a tizzy I’m afraid he might pop his bow tie off his neck and someone might get hurt.
Darin Larson
Troy says “At the end of the day, large swaths of salaried people don’t want you getting in their business. And, I’m happy to accept them into the Republican Party. The reaction of millennials who like flexibility has been negative.”
Troy, where is your evidence? How is it that you are speaking for salaried workers making not just squat, but didily squat. How is it that calling someone a manager allows a business to exploit a worker so that they have no time for family, leisure or community?
Your arguments about flexibility are a smokescreen and a false choice. If this is just about flexibility, there are a thousand ways to retain flexibility, but make sure that workers are not being exploited. This isn’t the 20th century where you have to punch a clock at the office. There are many hourly workers that work from home. There are certainly apps that would make it easy and simple to work from home and keep track of the hours worked.
Millennials are not going to put up with workers being exploited.
o
Porter, I agree of course that cheap labor and environmental/safety regulation is more lax in many other countries – NAFTA did not cause that. I think the US had to make a decision to put our factories/workers/regulation in direct competition with those lower costs productions or we could take a stand to get those other standards up to ours. We went cheap. There certainly would have been “protectionist” claims and fights, but if we were serious about employee rights and environmental protection, that should have been the path Democrats looked toward. Fair trade over free trade.
Domestically “right to work” and other anti-union legislation led to the destruction of the largest democratic (small d) institutions this country has seen. We are paying a hefty price for their decline now.
Porter Lansing
Troy talking to Dicta is like Troy talking to himself. Hmmmm? OK, Troy. Uh, huh. If you says it, we liberals are on the opposite opinion. That’s because you a self-serving, oppressive capitalist manipulator of workers rights. No reference to the porcine is appropriate.
Darin … according to current research, millennials are famously not choosing a political party. That’s why Troy is after them so hard. His party is dwindling and not being refreshed with young ideas, like ours is. Millennials are highly observant and no amount of anti-worker Republican propaganda will penetrate their politics. They’ll vote for our side, if we don’t run another Clinton. hehe
mike from iowa
t was as ill-conceived, poorly received (by those it intended to benefit) as anything Obama did.
Well here is one stoopid white man’s holiday wish that bin-ladin was still alive because it was ill-conceived and poorly received by all those innocents bin-ladin didn’t get to kill because the screw up Obama got his ass first. Happy Holidays, Troy, you rat bastard!
o
Darin, “Millennials are not going to put up with workers being exploited.” I disagree. It comes down to price and cost. Millennials are more willing to look at things like Uber/Air B&B as wonderful ways to reduce costs and not see how this undermines men and women who do this job for real/full-time/career salaries. The “shared economy” is not a boon to many full-time workers.
Donald Pay
When I worked for a state lab in the 1980s, we (all hourly workers) had the flexibility that Troy was talking about. I thought it worked well for us.
It may have just been our little group bending the rules. The state didn’t want us to take overtime, but overtime was sometimes necessary to get the job done. They never ordered us to work overtime, but they would offer a pretty good deal. It was all voluntary. The state (or at least our supervisors) would give us comp time at two hours for every hour worked over 40 hours per week, and we could usually bundle that up over the busy time, then take comp time during slack time.
I actually think it shouldn’t be one hard and fast rule, but that workers should be able to negotiate for overtime pay or comp time at 2/1. Some will opt for flexibility in scheduling, and some will opt for overtime pay.
Porter Lansing
o … Even baby boomers are looking to Uber and AirBnB’s to reduce costs. I don’t ride in cabs or stay in motels, anymore. Even many of the Uber drivers and AirBnB operators are retired folks looking for a side hustle. They do absolutely hurt full time workers as well as motel owners and self-employed cab drivers. Do you have any ideas that would help them compete with the new “shared economy”?
Roger Cornelius
Who are the companies that Troy has referred to in his earlier comments?
Are we all expected to take his word for it that such comments like 100% of their managers actually exist?
Would Troy believe me if I were to say that I know a company and their managers that fully agree with President Obama on his labor policies?
o
Porter, the short answer is regulation. Ensure that the standards and requirements of an industry are placed on ALL in that industry. Cabbies in many cities have to have certifications and insurance to do that job. Their cars must meet safety inspections. Really it is the whole free trade-versus-fair trade discussion on the international level. Regulation has become a dirty word in politics, but they are what ensure safety, environmental protection, and prohibit exploitation. Regulations are the rules of decency we think everyone should play by. That is the heart of my objection to NAFTA/Free Trade, we let slide concepts of decency for a better price through exploitation. That was wrong – Dem’s should have fought on that hill.
Troy
Porter, did you say this with a straight face? “His party is dwindling and not being refreshed with young ideas, like ours is.”
Anyway, if we are “dwindling” like this, I guess I’ll accept it. Since 2009:
– Republicans in the White House: +1
– Republicans in the US Senate: +11
– Republicans in the US House: +61
– Republicans Governors: +11
– State Senates controlled by GOP +18
– State Houses controlled by GOP +16
– Change in State Senators by GOP: +201
– Change in State Reps by GOP: +695
In all cases above, the GOP went from a minority to a majority. I’m not going to do all your research for you but you should look at the average age and average tenure of your US Senators, US House members, and Governors. Been awhile since you’ve had an infusion of new blood outside of President Obama.
Porter Lansing
What’s your party’s age demographic, Troy?
Porter Lansing
You, know. The average of your older, angry white male party.
Troy
Donald Pay,
The flexibility you mention is expressly prohibited in the Obama regulation recently stopped by a federal judge. It was blanket one-size fits all without regard to industry, company or specific wishes of the employee, or anything the two could/would negotiate. No exceptions if you employed more than 50 employees (not to mention contract employees now sometimes count toward the 50 employees*).
* I know of a company which had a specific employee assigned to them by their supplier who was on-site to the customer which was deemed an employee of the customer and not the supplier because they spent their time primarily there and interracting with those employees. You just can’t make up this crap.
Porter Lansing
Troy, you could easily “make it up”. What’s the name of the company?
jerry
Actually the average age looks like between 24 and 54 and yes, they are angry. They are angry because they have been left behind. Their representatives in government let them down by not educating them into a more advanced work environment. Once again, Bernie was spot on.
The jobs they see are not going to them for their labors, they are going to urban areas in the service industry. They know full well that science and technology is passing them by in the wink of an eye. Yes, there are no republicans and democrats, only voters, really pissed off voters that are not really expecting anything other than staying the way they are.
Thune and company think that this smoke they are presenting will satisfy white workers, but it will only inflame them further. Sometimes when you blow the dog whistle you get bitten on the arse cheeks.
The war on drugs is being won by the drug companies, how much do they give to Thune, Rounds, NOem and Daugaard? Troy, as you always seem to be in the know on this, how much?
Porter Lansing
My research shows that the average age of Republican voters is 50 and the same of Democrats is 47. Actuarially that’s a huge spread. Here’s an article about Republicans starving for new young blood.
~ But, what’s the tell, here is that Troy understood my assertion was about voter’s age and he tried to misdirect and misinform the readers by posting ages of elected officials. That’s a false equivalency and blatant “fake news”. Can you really be believed anymore, Mr. Jones? http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/05/the-gop-is-dying-off-literally-118035
mike from iowa
I actually think it shouldn’t be one hard and fast rule, but that workers should be able to negotiate for overtime pay or comp time at 2/1. Some will opt for flexibility in scheduling, and some will opt for overtime pay.
Wingnuts aren’t real keen on collective bargaining or any bargaining at all. Seems they prefer you be dictated to.
John Kennedy Claussen, Sr.
Troy says, “100% of the managers chose to go back to salary.” Well, a course they did, because they fear reprisal otherwise. If these managers’ opinions really mattered to begin with , then collectively they would have never allowed the pay abuse to start with and or continue….Especially, if they really speak with 100% solidarity…..
Dicta
“Troy talking to Dicta is like Troy talking to himself.”
I disagree with Troy almost as frequently as I disagree with you, Porter. I disagreed with so many people on the R side of the aisle that I can’t post on the war college anymore after I kept giving Powers crap for mocking Cory for being a stay at home dad, as if it was something to be embarrassed about. The difference is, Troy and I can actually discuss our disagreements, much like Cory and I can. For some reason, that can’t be done with you.
Porter Lansing
Uh, huh …
Porter Lansing
o … Wow, you sound like a union person. I am and I like what you just said, there. Regulations are so very important. Don’t you think business unregulated leads to runaway greed and societal deterioration, Troy and Dicta?
Dicta
Wait: do you seriously think we are the same person? Cory and Drey Samuelson can attest that we aren’t, if that is really your concern.
By taking the overtime hours from those who were finally able to see relief, Thune and company are gonna alienate workers yet again. What Troy is missing is that these are not Republican and these are not Democrats or Independent, these are voters who will cross lines just like they did for Trump. I say go ahead and do that Mr. Thune. Get that done before mid terms, you buddy, jerry
jerry
Mr. Dicta, I like you just the way you are you big lug.
Dicta
*blushes at Jerry*
You. I like you.
jerry
Kindly correct my anonymous name then to jerry, so we can move on.
Porter Lansing
Jerry … The bell tolls for the GOP. As I opined, whenever something is said that is a dagger to the belly of Republicans and their open assault against workers, Troy and the lot of ’em come out of the woodwork to try and misdirect and misinform. Fact are Facts and Jerry has it down. John Thune’s support for taking away the new overtime protections the Obama Administration offers to 9,232 South Dakota workers will be his anchor to swim with. Time to push him off the boat dock.
Dicta
Understood, jerry. I did not mean to dox you, and I hope you accept my humble apology.
jerry
Indeed Mr. Dicta, indeed. No harm, no foul in the joust in the ring of opinion.
jerry
Porter, now as you have some contacts within the bowels of State government. I am curious to see how many overtime hours and payroll in general, the DAPL workers received for those thousands of jobs that were promised. Did they pay the same amount as the Koreans who built the EB5 plant in Aberdeen? How about the Workmen’s Compensation fund, that is probably still overflowing from the Koreans and the Energy Transfer boys?
Troy
Guys,
If you think I made it up or those employees feared reprisal, keep doing what you are doing. I couldn’t care less. Actually, I hope you will keep doing it. Except for the number of US Senators, in the last 80+ years, the GOP has record numbers in every state and federal category of office holders. Totally open to setting new records.
knocking low wage workers in a low wage state will come back to haunt him someday.
o
One point that seems ignored so far is the question of need: were hourly workers being exploited by being required to work overtime hours for no or low overtime pay? The Obama order was to address the imbalance of power between management and labor that lead to labor being unfairly compensated for work. Porter has brought me to the conclusion that this is a labor/collective bargaining issue that in the absence of equal power had to have big brother step in with regulation to even the playing field and protect a fundamental value of worth.
A fair discussion of the unintended or negative consequences of the President’s actions is fair game, but let us not leave out what caused him to implement the order in the first place. Left to their own devices, those in charge were acting unfairly to those in their charge and doing so with impunity not because they were right, but because they have been given all the power. That is fundamentally un-democratic (small “d” again).
o
Jerry and Roger, do either of you think this (or any labor issue) is large enough to overcome the Republican or Pro-Life brand our elected officials enjoy now? Can the (SD or National) GOP loose their labor support the way the Dems did nationally in the Rust Belt?
mike from iowa
Does not matter who or what groups wingnuts intentionally alienate. They run ads blaming Dems and HRC in particular and these stoopid people fall for it every time.
Newt Dingbich is suggesting congress re-write ethics rules for the billionaire, pathological lying, Russian puppet set to be coronated.He also suggests if someone in the cabinet breaks the law, Drumpf should just pardon them. Then they can drag HRC back in front of congress and Benghazi her some more.
Jenny
Most people I’ve worked with prefer hourly wages versus salaried b/c of the OT pay which is usually time and a half. The place I work at has also offered double OT when there is a backlog.
jerry
o, here is my take on the pro life thingy these guys have hung their hats too, it will not become anything other than what it now is. They will not abolish it because it draws votes. They used to beat hell out of the gays and now, we all see rainbows while singing Barry Manilow tunes..er..maybe that was a little too far. Anyway, labor will never be a problem in South Dakota because we have no economic development. I wonder if the 35 guys that are trying to sell economic development here draw any overtime? Lets ask Troy, do they Troy?
Here is how the GOP, or whatever the hell Trump is, will loose the rust belt. Time. The clock is ticking right now. They cannot sing “Yesterday” and blame it on the Black dude. Nope, the lack of buck stops right there in their laps. Like a dollop of hot taters and gravy. Its there baby now. Midterms are coming and rust belters will probably see their error.
Porter Lansing
Good one, Jerry.
bearcreekbat
You are an optimist jerry, I salute you!
gtr
Troy says “In all cases above, the GOP went from a minority to a majority. I’m not going to do all your research for you…”
I’ll explain how the GOP is getting there majorities, and you don’t need to do any research Troy, because you knows this as well as anyone.
1) Gerrymandering
2) Gutting the voting rights act
3) Citizen’s United – now corporations are people ( except when they don’t want to be)
4) Purging of voters from voting rolls (Look at the work Greg Palst has done researching this)
5) Eliminated or reduced early voting
6) Reduced the number of polling places, especially in poor areas
7) Voter ID laws designed to make it as hard as possible for poor people to meet the requirements.
8) Voter intimidation
Here’s a couple of local tricks the GOP uses to do this
1) attempts to increase the number of signatures to get on the ballot as a candidate
2) attempts to limit from which party can sign to get a candidate on a ballot
3) attempts to shorten the time for a candidate to get on the ballot
Gee, I don’t know how they have achieved their recent majorities. I still go with the idea that we should be the beacon of the world for open and free elections. We ought to make it easier for everyone to vote, not harder. I’ll take that idea over the GOP’s idea any day.
Darin Larson
gtr, don’t forget about the Russians getting Trump elected. That’s kind of a big one.
grudznick
I wish the Russians would have focused on Mr. Johnson.
Damn Russians.
Don Coyote
@Porter Lansing:
From the Vox link – “Modern labor law dates back to 1938, when Congress passed the Fair Labor Standards Act. A key requirement of that law was that workers receive time-and-a-half pay any time they’re asked to work more than 40 hours per week.”
The Vox article neglects to explain the real reasoning behind the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938. At the time the unemployment rate stood at 19%. The main reason for overtime pay was not to protect workers but an attempt to create more jobs by spreading out the work by penalizing companies with overtime pay and to cut down on the increasing number of involuntary part time employees by giving them more hours. Similar reasoning was also true for minimum wage which was enacted at the same time. By forcing employers to pay a minimum wage, employers were more likely to hire men (who were impacted more by the Depression) since they would be paying the same rate for women and children, who comprised a smaller part of the workforce.
Darrell Reifenrath
He won’t have to worry about getting paid for overtime considering how little the Senate works.
jerry
Don Coyote, the overtime rule will not be a factor in South Dakota because the $47,000.00 rule is not really an issue that some feller in Stickney is going to be fretting over. To that guy, anyone making 47 grand a year is way overpaid from his 28 grand that he just got a raise on. The truth is that the feller in Stickney is much the same as the fellers all over the state, underpaid for the hard work they do. BTW, I have always liked Stickney and mean no disrespect to anyone who lives there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stickney,_South_Dakota
jerry
Thune is clearly speaking to his patrons around the country, not to his constituents here in South Dakota. You do not have 10 million in your piggy bank saying cool things about working people anyplace. You only get the kind of patronage by selling your soul to the highest greedy bidder. Work on that tan Thune, keep working on that tan! He will have plenty of time for that with this congress getting ready to do nothing once again.
Troy
Jerry, when I was at GOED, most of the people were salaried and did not get overtime. My salaried staff averaged over 2,300 hours a year and nobody got overtime.
jerry
You must be proud of that mistreatment of your staff Troy as that comes out to 57.5 hours a week. No wonder they were salaried so you could duck and dodge. The poor saps that were hourly must have been living on weak porridge and table scraps. The abuse of workers seems to be the theme then for the GOED so Thune’s words are like rose pedals dancing on your ear. Perfect timing for Scrooge of the times.
Darin Larson
Troy, what the heck? How do you know your salaried staff worked an average of 2300 hours a year. I thought the one thing that made being on a salary great was not keeping track of your hours?
jerry
Troy, how much did the Energy Transfer boys pay the state in excise for those thousands of workers on the DAPL? How about to Workmen’s comp? Any overtime?
jerry
The staff must have been partying and raising hell at the watering hole. The designated sober one would call Troy and tell him they had just landed a whale or were about to. Then they would party on. The advantage of salary, take the state for whatever you can. The bosses do it so why not? Hey, wasn’t that EB5 time?
Jana
Oh Troy, do please continue. Tell us again about the story of the Christmas trickle down economy! So you had a lot of people working for you (thanks for pointing out that they worked for you as opposed to with you)
So you made each salaried staff give you 4 hours a week away from their family. What a guy! That 4 hours a week of bad management cost each kid 219 hours a year away from their parent who worked for you. You must be proud.
How many of those employee hours were spent raising money for the Governor at the Hunt, Golf, Round up etc. under the guise of recruiting new industry.
Since you were top dog at GOED, how much of your employees time was spent making sure you could keep your patronage job?
Do you see how using the possessive ‘my staff’ shows how you considered your staff as just a tool for you and not as good public servants working for South Dakota taxpayers.
Tell us how their wages compared to the private sector.
Tell us what their taxpayer paid benefits were compared to today under GOP control.
Then tell us how increased productivity out of US workers has benefited them vs. stagnating middle class wages.
While you’re at it, tell us how GOED is not just a tool to keep the GOP power structure in place with taxpayer money. Think about it, how much has SD spent on left leaning companies? What are the chances of getting corporate welfare if you are a member of the opposition party?
Sometimes I think that the corporate welfare that GOED dishes out is nothing more than a game and not even close to good governance and expenditure of taxpayer funds.
I think you are trying to “hoodwink” us Mr. Jones. Unlike the Governor (or his ventriloquist son-in-law) I will not call you a scam artist.
Jana
gtr, you left off the biggest factor. The threat of being blacklisted for being a member of the opposition party.
Want GOED money…not so much.
Want to go against the local chamber’s GOP sycophancy and risk state dollars …not so much.
Want a local GOP legislator to go to bat for you…not so much.
Being a Dem in SD is bad business because the GOP will black list you.
Being a Dem or in opposition to the establishment carries a risk at both the personal and business level.
WORKERS REPENT … It wasn’t we liberals who sent white working class jobs to Mexico. It was conservative business owners. It wasn’t we liberals who broke up your unions, stole your job security and kept your wages down. It was conservative business owners. It wasn’t we liberals who looked the other way while the rich got super-rich on 99% of the new wealth and the white working class got screwed. Liberals couldn’t be farther away from responsibility for the demise of the white working class. It was conservative selfishness that put you workers where you are and now you’re not we liberals problem any more. You voted us out and we liberals aren’t around Washington to blame, now. It’s high time the white working class got a mouthful of who’s really their masters. Take a long look at Trump’s cabinet and ask yourself, “Who among you is highly concerned about the white working class?” None of them are. Take a long look at John Thune and ask yourself, “Is he concerned about the white working class or is he concerned about the conservative business owners?” This will be a good four years for the bosses.
Creating millions of jobs and getting people insured sure hurts the economy. No wonder wingnuts get elected to clean up Dems messes. Marlboro Barbie’s word salad is near as bad as Snowgrift Snookie’s word salad. Remedial English is the order of the day.
Yes, of course, we have to pay workers less for the economy to flourish so workers can make more. It makes perfect sense. Just like Lightning McQueen has to turn right to go left on a dirt track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LR6eS2NWf4
CH,
Your presumption is that all of these people who were previously salaried want to become hourly employees and eligible for overtime. You are grossly incorrect. They enjoy the privilege of being able to work when the job requires them to work and be able to cut out early when there is nothing happening or work/answer emails from home. It was as ill-conceived, poorly received (by those it intended to benefit) as anything Obama did.
I know of one company who met with all their lower managers and presented a conforming plan. They were then asked if in the event the court case was successful (a Court put an injunction on it) they would have the option of going back to salary. 100% of the managers chose to go back to salary.
Troy says “They enjoy the privilege of being able to work when the job requires them to work and be able to cut out early when there is nothing happening or work/answer emails from home.”
They can still do this, Troy. They just have to keep track of their hours.
Troy says “I know of one company who met with all their lower managers and presented a conforming plan. They were then asked if in the event the court case was successful (a Court put an injunction on it) they would have the option of going back to salary. 100% of the managers chose to go back to salary.”
Who is going to be the lower or mid-level manager who says, nah, “I know the company wants us to stay on salary so they can work us all the time, but I’m not a team player and I’d prefer hourly.” Thenceforth, count that person out of being promoted or good evaluations. They would immediately start hearing in their reviews that they are not enough of a team player and they don’t have what it takes to advance in the company.
Companies are exploiting these workers by calling them managers and working the heck out of them without commensurate compensation.
Troy, oh clever you. 100% of the managers chose to go back to salary. Duh. The rank and file got overtime protection because those managers abused the hell out of them. What Thune and you are doing is called a dog whistle. You know as well as me who this overtime benefited. Get up earlier.
Darin and Jerry,
I want to thank you for holding so strongly to the false impression you are doing good for others. People who like their job, understand their job and appreciate the terms of their employment with regard to the flexibility being salaried offers don’t appreciate your efforts to “do something” for them and disagree with you. But, you keep trying to force stuff down their throat (especially millenials) for sooner they’ll become committed Republicans.
I think it’s a mistake to paint employees as 100% for or against the overtime protection stuff. Many of my coworkers who were moved to hourly were upset about it and enjoyed the flexibility salaried work offered them. They also weren’t raked over the coals on overtime, and probably worked 5 overtime hours a week on average, if that. Some of my friends working in other industries were thrilled about the law because their employers abused the hell out of overtime and worked them to the bone. As with damn near all policies: there are winners and losers here.
So, you are not going to speak to the substance of what I took issue with in your previous statement?
I love it when Republicans claim to speak for the working class in the midst of tearing down protections for wage earners.
Amazing coming from somebody who has never worked for a living.course if you have a piece of straw in your mouth standing between two bales of hay, and say ethanol, people will vote for you.
AsI said before he is no thing but lip service and photo ops.
Dicta, I agree. The question is should the exploitation of the workers that are abused by the no overtime provisions for “manager” be allowed to continue so that some workers that are not exploited get to continue a more flexible job schedule? Furthermore, why couldn’t the flexible job schedule for the latter group continue within certain parameters? If they are just working 5 hours of overtime a week, surely the company could work out something that would serve both the company and its workforce.
Troy tries to be funny and says,”Darin and Jerry,
I want to thank you for holding so strongly to the false impression you are doing good for others.”
~ As any liberal well knows, “When Troy comments on something a liberal has said, it means what the liberal has said is legitimate, factual, on target and is damaging to his Republican one-party oppression of South Dakota workers.”
Hear, hear Moses, Darin and Jerry. Keep up the good work. Let’s keep Troy backstroking until he hits the wall of the pool with his head. ~ Power To The Worker!!
Darin,
Take exception with all it means is they have to keep track of hours? Well, besides the reality neither they or their employer wants to watch their hours, they won’t have the flexibility to work light hours during the seasonal down-time knowing they have to work more hours during the busy season because the timeframe for overtime is during the two week period.
At the end of the day, large swaths of salaried people don’t want you getting in their business. And, I’m happy to accept them into the Republican Party. The reaction of millennials who like flexibility has been negative.
Dicta is right. Salaried people very often work 45 hours and they incorporate these expectations into their salary and accept it gladly in exchange for the flexibility they get. Nobody watches whether they take extra time at noon to run errands. Nobody cares if they leave early to miss rush hour traffic or go to a child’s event. Nobody monitors them if they really worked at home that evening.
Further, those employers who abuse their salaried employees lose those employees to better employers over time and ultimately are less successful. If some State believes there is “abuse” in a particular industry or type of job, they can deal with it as they see fit. But, the federal government moving the minimum of who can be salaried from under $25,000 a year to almost $50,000 a year for every business and type of job? Not well-received no matter how good your intentions.
Personally, I wish the judge hadn’t stopped it as an illegal over-reach of the US Department of Labor and these managers had had to have lived under it for at least six months. It would have done more to offend the millennials and moved them more firmly and quickly in the Republican camp.
“Brilliant” response Porter. Textbook logic fallacy.
Argumentum ad hominem – the claim that a position is incorrect or an argument invalid because of something not about the position but about the person taking it.
But, hey, if that is all the intellectual heft you got, you got to go with the best you have.
Troy Jones equals FAKE NEWS. This man has one agenda. To make the owners more money by holding the paychecks of workers hostage. Putting workers on salary and working them until their kids don’t recognize ’em makes owner’s profit line fatter and the worker half insane with overwork at underpaid jobs they can’t leave, just for a health insurance policy. Reject this conservative propaganda and join Democrats to fight the oppression.
First off, Thune is not speaking to South Dakota with his dog whistle. Troy hears it all to well and so do many others. The fact is that overtime mainly goes to minority workers, and that is not acceptable in today’s market. In South Dakota, just the one place? Hmmm, what is Thune representing? Who is he representing? Certainly not his constituents except the one. Who is that Troy? Poet?
Gotcha, didn’t I Troy? When you’ve claimed ad hominem, I’ve never lost an argument with you. It’s your last excuse after you’ve said something ridiculous.
He’s not wrong, Porter, that you resorted to ad hominem. You literally fell back on “When Troy comments on something he disagrees with, you can assume the other person is right,” which I hope was satirical on your part. If you were serious, that is some mind-numbingly dumb reasoning.
DickTa … My statement wasn’t an argument. It was a statement to the readers about the person who posted before me. My opinion, if you will. No need to apologize.
How much revenue has the State of South Dakota received in payroll tax for the thousands of workers on the DAPL? The excise tax alone should be incredible for the state’s coffers. How much was made by the state Troy, without overtime?
So it was a personal attack in lieu of an actual point. I guess you can admit it, at least. Also: DickTA! Get it boys and girls? He made a joke about me using a mnemonic device with my username! Hilarity!
Porter, while I agree wit the core of your original post, but Democrats’ hands are not clean. NAFTA and other trade agreements championed by two different Democratic presidents helped ease the movement of good-paying American Jobs to lower paying foreign factories. Now we see the very men that the Obama Administration chose not to prosecute for bank and securities fraud being picked for the Trump cabinet. The Democrats were not the watchdogs for the very people they speak to now – and that fact cost Secretary Clinton the election (and on her coattails, the Senate and House seats). Sanders, Warren, and others want to address some of this, but too much of the structure of both political parties has been coopted by those who profit from the exploitation and destruction of the US workforce.
“Trump/GOP is worse” doesn’t completely clean the Dem’s hands.
The joke is that you started a sentence with the word “so”. Yes, it was a personal observation that many don’t see as an attack but merely a confirmation of the obvious.
o … I’ve been waiting for that argument. If you’re saying that it was partially Dems fault for making it easier then I’m grasping what you’re asserting. Helping ease the movement is like putting a gun on the table and then blaming the manufacturer if it gets picked up and used to kill someone. Conservative businesses were already moving overseas before NAFTA. Cheap labor and the ability to pollute at will were so enticing that NAFTA only helped USA get something from the defection of businesses.
Dicta … one commenter’s “user name” is another commenter’s “anonymity shield against personal embarrassment”. If you’d use your real name, you’d get respect against auto-correction.
Dichta,
The last two subjects where i’ve gotten a response from Porter were basically: “If Troy says it, we are on the opposite side good liberals.” The guy can’t even figure out how to say “uh uh.”
Kinda fun having that much power over him. Thinking about saying I’m a Bronco fan. Throw him into a such a tizzy I’m afraid he might pop his bow tie off his neck and someone might get hurt.
Troy says “At the end of the day, large swaths of salaried people don’t want you getting in their business. And, I’m happy to accept them into the Republican Party. The reaction of millennials who like flexibility has been negative.”
Troy, where is your evidence? How is it that you are speaking for salaried workers making not just squat, but didily squat. How is it that calling someone a manager allows a business to exploit a worker so that they have no time for family, leisure or community?
Your arguments about flexibility are a smokescreen and a false choice. If this is just about flexibility, there are a thousand ways to retain flexibility, but make sure that workers are not being exploited. This isn’t the 20th century where you have to punch a clock at the office. There are many hourly workers that work from home. There are certainly apps that would make it easy and simple to work from home and keep track of the hours worked.
Millennials are not going to put up with workers being exploited.
Porter, I agree of course that cheap labor and environmental/safety regulation is more lax in many other countries – NAFTA did not cause that. I think the US had to make a decision to put our factories/workers/regulation in direct competition with those lower costs productions or we could take a stand to get those other standards up to ours. We went cheap. There certainly would have been “protectionist” claims and fights, but if we were serious about employee rights and environmental protection, that should have been the path Democrats looked toward. Fair trade over free trade.
Domestically “right to work” and other anti-union legislation led to the destruction of the largest democratic (small d) institutions this country has seen. We are paying a hefty price for their decline now.
Troy talking to Dicta is like Troy talking to himself. Hmmmm? OK, Troy. Uh, huh. If you says it, we liberals are on the opposite opinion. That’s because you a self-serving, oppressive capitalist manipulator of workers rights. No reference to the porcine is appropriate.
Darin … according to current research, millennials are famously not choosing a political party. That’s why Troy is after them so hard. His party is dwindling and not being refreshed with young ideas, like ours is. Millennials are highly observant and no amount of anti-worker Republican propaganda will penetrate their politics. They’ll vote for our side, if we don’t run another Clinton. hehe
t was as ill-conceived, poorly received (by those it intended to benefit) as anything Obama did.
Well here is one stoopid white man’s holiday wish that bin-ladin was still alive because it was ill-conceived and poorly received by all those innocents bin-ladin didn’t get to kill because the screw up Obama got his ass first. Happy Holidays, Troy, you rat bastard!
Darin, “Millennials are not going to put up with workers being exploited.” I disagree. It comes down to price and cost. Millennials are more willing to look at things like Uber/Air B&B as wonderful ways to reduce costs and not see how this undermines men and women who do this job for real/full-time/career salaries. The “shared economy” is not a boon to many full-time workers.
When I worked for a state lab in the 1980s, we (all hourly workers) had the flexibility that Troy was talking about. I thought it worked well for us.
It may have just been our little group bending the rules. The state didn’t want us to take overtime, but overtime was sometimes necessary to get the job done. They never ordered us to work overtime, but they would offer a pretty good deal. It was all voluntary. The state (or at least our supervisors) would give us comp time at two hours for every hour worked over 40 hours per week, and we could usually bundle that up over the busy time, then take comp time during slack time.
I actually think it shouldn’t be one hard and fast rule, but that workers should be able to negotiate for overtime pay or comp time at 2/1. Some will opt for flexibility in scheduling, and some will opt for overtime pay.
o … Even baby boomers are looking to Uber and AirBnB’s to reduce costs. I don’t ride in cabs or stay in motels, anymore. Even many of the Uber drivers and AirBnB operators are retired folks looking for a side hustle. They do absolutely hurt full time workers as well as motel owners and self-employed cab drivers. Do you have any ideas that would help them compete with the new “shared economy”?
Who are the companies that Troy has referred to in his earlier comments?
Are we all expected to take his word for it that such comments like 100% of their managers actually exist?
Would Troy believe me if I were to say that I know a company and their managers that fully agree with President Obama on his labor policies?
Porter, the short answer is regulation. Ensure that the standards and requirements of an industry are placed on ALL in that industry. Cabbies in many cities have to have certifications and insurance to do that job. Their cars must meet safety inspections. Really it is the whole free trade-versus-fair trade discussion on the international level. Regulation has become a dirty word in politics, but they are what ensure safety, environmental protection, and prohibit exploitation. Regulations are the rules of decency we think everyone should play by. That is the heart of my objection to NAFTA/Free Trade, we let slide concepts of decency for a better price through exploitation. That was wrong – Dem’s should have fought on that hill.
Porter, did you say this with a straight face? “His party is dwindling and not being refreshed with young ideas, like ours is.”
Anyway, if we are “dwindling” like this, I guess I’ll accept it. Since 2009:
– Republicans in the White House: +1
– Republicans in the US Senate: +11
– Republicans in the US House: +61
– Republicans Governors: +11
– State Senates controlled by GOP +18
– State Houses controlled by GOP +16
– Change in State Senators by GOP: +201
– Change in State Reps by GOP: +695
In all cases above, the GOP went from a minority to a majority. I’m not going to do all your research for you but you should look at the average age and average tenure of your US Senators, US House members, and Governors. Been awhile since you’ve had an infusion of new blood outside of President Obama.
What’s your party’s age demographic, Troy?
You, know. The average of your older, angry white male party.
Donald Pay,
The flexibility you mention is expressly prohibited in the Obama regulation recently stopped by a federal judge. It was blanket one-size fits all without regard to industry, company or specific wishes of the employee, or anything the two could/would negotiate. No exceptions if you employed more than 50 employees (not to mention contract employees now sometimes count toward the 50 employees*).
* I know of a company which had a specific employee assigned to them by their supplier who was on-site to the customer which was deemed an employee of the customer and not the supplier because they spent their time primarily there and interracting with those employees. You just can’t make up this crap.
Troy, you could easily “make it up”. What’s the name of the company?
Actually the average age looks like between 24 and 54 and yes, they are angry. They are angry because they have been left behind. Their representatives in government let them down by not educating them into a more advanced work environment. Once again, Bernie was spot on.
The jobs they see are not going to them for their labors, they are going to urban areas in the service industry. They know full well that science and technology is passing them by in the wink of an eye. Yes, there are no republicans and democrats, only voters, really pissed off voters that are not really expecting anything other than staying the way they are.
Thune and company think that this smoke they are presenting will satisfy white workers, but it will only inflame them further. Sometimes when you blow the dog whistle you get bitten on the arse cheeks.
Let us hope that legislation will take care of this http://www.wvgazettemail.com/news-health/20161217/drug-firms-poured-780m-painkillers-into-wv-amid-rise-of-overdoses
The war on drugs is being won by the drug companies, how much do they give to Thune, Rounds, NOem and Daugaard? Troy, as you always seem to be in the know on this, how much?
My research shows that the average age of Republican voters is 50 and the same of Democrats is 47. Actuarially that’s a huge spread. Here’s an article about Republicans starving for new young blood.
~ But, what’s the tell, here is that Troy understood my assertion was about voter’s age and he tried to misdirect and misinform the readers by posting ages of elected officials. That’s a false equivalency and blatant “fake news”. Can you really be believed anymore, Mr. Jones?
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/05/the-gop-is-dying-off-literally-118035
I actually think it shouldn’t be one hard and fast rule, but that workers should be able to negotiate for overtime pay or comp time at 2/1. Some will opt for flexibility in scheduling, and some will opt for overtime pay.
Wingnuts aren’t real keen on collective bargaining or any bargaining at all. Seems they prefer you be dictated to.
Troy says, “100% of the managers chose to go back to salary.” Well, a course they did, because they fear reprisal otherwise. If these managers’ opinions really mattered to begin with , then collectively they would have never allowed the pay abuse to start with and or continue….Especially, if they really speak with 100% solidarity…..
“Troy talking to Dicta is like Troy talking to himself.”
I disagree with Troy almost as frequently as I disagree with you, Porter. I disagreed with so many people on the R side of the aisle that I can’t post on the war college anymore after I kept giving Powers crap for mocking Cory for being a stay at home dad, as if it was something to be embarrassed about. The difference is, Troy and I can actually discuss our disagreements, much like Cory and I can. For some reason, that can’t be done with you.
Uh, huh …
o … Wow, you sound like a union person. I am and I like what you just said, there. Regulations are so very important. Don’t you think business unregulated leads to runaway greed and societal deterioration, Troy and Dicta?
Wait: do you seriously think we are the same person? Cory and Drey Samuelson can attest that we aren’t, if that is really your concern.
Porter, here for whom the bell tolls
“The racial and ethnic divide is starker among workers in their prime. Whites ages 25 to 54 lost some 6.5 million jobs more than they gained over the period. Hispanics in their prime, by contrast, gained some three million jobs net, Asians 1.5 million and blacks one million.” http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/business/economy/jobs-economy-voters.html?ref=business&_r=2
By taking the overtime hours from those who were finally able to see relief, Thune and company are gonna alienate workers yet again. What Troy is missing is that these are not Republican and these are not Democrats or Independent, these are voters who will cross lines just like they did for Trump. I say go ahead and do that Mr. Thune. Get that done before mid terms, you buddy, jerry
Mr. Dicta, I like you just the way you are you big lug.
*blushes at Jerry*
You. I like you.
Kindly correct my anonymous name then to jerry, so we can move on.
Jerry … The bell tolls for the GOP. As I opined, whenever something is said that is a dagger to the belly of Republicans and their open assault against workers, Troy and the lot of ’em come out of the woodwork to try and misdirect and misinform. Fact are Facts and Jerry has it down. John Thune’s support for taking away the new overtime protections the Obama Administration offers to 9,232 South Dakota workers will be his anchor to swim with. Time to push him off the boat dock.
Understood, jerry. I did not mean to dox you, and I hope you accept my humble apology.
Indeed Mr. Dicta, indeed. No harm, no foul in the joust in the ring of opinion.
Porter, now as you have some contacts within the bowels of State government. I am curious to see how many overtime hours and payroll in general, the DAPL workers received for those thousands of jobs that were promised. Did they pay the same amount as the Koreans who built the EB5 plant in Aberdeen? How about the Workmen’s Compensation fund, that is probably still overflowing from the Koreans and the Energy Transfer boys?
Guys,
If you think I made it up or those employees feared reprisal, keep doing what you are doing. I couldn’t care less. Actually, I hope you will keep doing it. Except for the number of US Senators, in the last 80+ years, the GOP has record numbers in every state and federal category of office holders. Totally open to setting new records.
Here’s an explanation of what Troy is so happy about. i.e. Thousands of workers that now can’t get overtime.
http://www.vox.com/new-money/2016/11/23/13721724/obama-judge-overtime-doomed
knocking low wage workers in a low wage state will come back to haunt him someday.
One point that seems ignored so far is the question of need: were hourly workers being exploited by being required to work overtime hours for no or low overtime pay? The Obama order was to address the imbalance of power between management and labor that lead to labor being unfairly compensated for work. Porter has brought me to the conclusion that this is a labor/collective bargaining issue that in the absence of equal power had to have big brother step in with regulation to even the playing field and protect a fundamental value of worth.
A fair discussion of the unintended or negative consequences of the President’s actions is fair game, but let us not leave out what caused him to implement the order in the first place. Left to their own devices, those in charge were acting unfairly to those in their charge and doing so with impunity not because they were right, but because they have been given all the power. That is fundamentally un-democratic (small “d” again).
Jerry and Roger, do either of you think this (or any labor issue) is large enough to overcome the Republican or Pro-Life brand our elected officials enjoy now? Can the (SD or National) GOP loose their labor support the way the Dems did nationally in the Rust Belt?
Does not matter who or what groups wingnuts intentionally alienate. They run ads blaming Dems and HRC in particular and these stoopid people fall for it every time.
Newt Dingbich is suggesting congress re-write ethics rules for the billionaire, pathological lying, Russian puppet set to be coronated.He also suggests if someone in the cabinet breaks the law, Drumpf should just pardon them. Then they can drag HRC back in front of congress and Benghazi her some more.
Most people I’ve worked with prefer hourly wages versus salaried b/c of the OT pay which is usually time and a half. The place I work at has also offered double OT when there is a backlog.
o, here is my take on the pro life thingy these guys have hung their hats too, it will not become anything other than what it now is. They will not abolish it because it draws votes. They used to beat hell out of the gays and now, we all see rainbows while singing Barry Manilow tunes..er..maybe that was a little too far. Anyway, labor will never be a problem in South Dakota because we have no economic development. I wonder if the 35 guys that are trying to sell economic development here draw any overtime? Lets ask Troy, do they Troy?
Here is how the GOP, or whatever the hell Trump is, will loose the rust belt. Time. The clock is ticking right now. They cannot sing “Yesterday” and blame it on the Black dude. Nope, the lack of buck stops right there in their laps. Like a dollop of hot taters and gravy. Its there baby now. Midterms are coming and rust belters will probably see their error.
Good one, Jerry.
You are an optimist jerry, I salute you!
Troy says “In all cases above, the GOP went from a minority to a majority. I’m not going to do all your research for you…”
I’ll explain how the GOP is getting there majorities, and you don’t need to do any research Troy, because you knows this as well as anyone.
1) Gerrymandering
2) Gutting the voting rights act
3) Citizen’s United – now corporations are people ( except when they don’t want to be)
4) Purging of voters from voting rolls (Look at the work Greg Palst has done researching this)
5) Eliminated or reduced early voting
6) Reduced the number of polling places, especially in poor areas
7) Voter ID laws designed to make it as hard as possible for poor people to meet the requirements.
8) Voter intimidation
Here’s a couple of local tricks the GOP uses to do this
1) attempts to increase the number of signatures to get on the ballot as a candidate
2) attempts to limit from which party can sign to get a candidate on a ballot
3) attempts to shorten the time for a candidate to get on the ballot
Gee, I don’t know how they have achieved their recent majorities. I still go with the idea that we should be the beacon of the world for open and free elections. We ought to make it easier for everyone to vote, not harder. I’ll take that idea over the GOP’s idea any day.
gtr, don’t forget about the Russians getting Trump elected. That’s kind of a big one.
I wish the Russians would have focused on Mr. Johnson.
Damn Russians.
@Porter Lansing:
From the Vox link – “Modern labor law dates back to 1938, when Congress passed the Fair Labor Standards Act. A key requirement of that law was that workers receive time-and-a-half pay any time they’re asked to work more than 40 hours per week.”
The Vox article neglects to explain the real reasoning behind the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938. At the time the unemployment rate stood at 19%. The main reason for overtime pay was not to protect workers but an attempt to create more jobs by spreading out the work by penalizing companies with overtime pay and to cut down on the increasing number of involuntary part time employees by giving them more hours. Similar reasoning was also true for minimum wage which was enacted at the same time. By forcing employers to pay a minimum wage, employers were more likely to hire men (who were impacted more by the Depression) since they would be paying the same rate for women and children, who comprised a smaller part of the workforce.
He won’t have to worry about getting paid for overtime considering how little the Senate works.
Don Coyote, the overtime rule will not be a factor in South Dakota because the $47,000.00 rule is not really an issue that some feller in Stickney is going to be fretting over. To that guy, anyone making 47 grand a year is way overpaid from his 28 grand that he just got a raise on. The truth is that the feller in Stickney is much the same as the fellers all over the state, underpaid for the hard work they do. BTW, I have always liked Stickney and mean no disrespect to anyone who lives there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stickney,_South_Dakota
Thune is clearly speaking to his patrons around the country, not to his constituents here in South Dakota. You do not have 10 million in your piggy bank saying cool things about working people anyplace. You only get the kind of patronage by selling your soul to the highest greedy bidder. Work on that tan Thune, keep working on that tan! He will have plenty of time for that with this congress getting ready to do nothing once again.
Jerry, when I was at GOED, most of the people were salaried and did not get overtime. My salaried staff averaged over 2,300 hours a year and nobody got overtime.
You must be proud of that mistreatment of your staff Troy as that comes out to 57.5 hours a week. No wonder they were salaried so you could duck and dodge. The poor saps that were hourly must have been living on weak porridge and table scraps. The abuse of workers seems to be the theme then for the GOED so Thune’s words are like rose pedals dancing on your ear. Perfect timing for Scrooge of the times.
Troy, what the heck? How do you know your salaried staff worked an average of 2300 hours a year. I thought the one thing that made being on a salary great was not keeping track of your hours?
Troy, how much did the Energy Transfer boys pay the state in excise for those thousands of workers on the DAPL? How about to Workmen’s comp? Any overtime?
The staff must have been partying and raising hell at the watering hole. The designated sober one would call Troy and tell him they had just landed a whale or were about to. Then they would party on. The advantage of salary, take the state for whatever you can. The bosses do it so why not? Hey, wasn’t that EB5 time?
Oh Troy, do please continue. Tell us again about the story of the Christmas trickle down economy! So you had a lot of people working for you (thanks for pointing out that they worked for you as opposed to with you)
So you made each salaried staff give you 4 hours a week away from their family. What a guy! That 4 hours a week of bad management cost each kid 219 hours a year away from their parent who worked for you. You must be proud.
How many of those employee hours were spent raising money for the Governor at the Hunt, Golf, Round up etc. under the guise of recruiting new industry.
Since you were top dog at GOED, how much of your employees time was spent making sure you could keep your patronage job?
Do you see how using the possessive ‘my staff’ shows how you considered your staff as just a tool for you and not as good public servants working for South Dakota taxpayers.
Tell us how their wages compared to the private sector.
Tell us what their taxpayer paid benefits were compared to today under GOP control.
Then tell us how increased productivity out of US workers has benefited them vs. stagnating middle class wages.
While you’re at it, tell us how GOED is not just a tool to keep the GOP power structure in place with taxpayer money. Think about it, how much has SD spent on left leaning companies? What are the chances of getting corporate welfare if you are a member of the opposition party?
Sometimes I think that the corporate welfare that GOED dishes out is nothing more than a game and not even close to good governance and expenditure of taxpayer funds.
I think you are trying to “hoodwink” us Mr. Jones. Unlike the Governor (or his ventriloquist son-in-law) I will not call you a scam artist.
gtr, you left off the biggest factor. The threat of being blacklisted for being a member of the opposition party.
Want GOED money…not so much.
Want to go against the local chamber’s GOP sycophancy and risk state dollars …not so much.
Want a local GOP legislator to go to bat for you…not so much.
Being a Dem in SD is bad business because the GOP will black list you.
Being a Dem or in opposition to the establishment carries a risk at both the personal and business level.