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Whitman Shows Weak Rounds-Thune-Noem How to Call out Trump’s Fascism

Our Congressional delegation isn’t speaking out as forcefully as it should to protect their party and their country from Donald Trump’s fascism.

Senator Mike Rounds isn’t offering any moral leadership in condemning Trump. John Thune told WNAX last week that Donald Trump’s rhetoric about Muslims isn’t “helpful.” That’s the same milquetoasty word, helpful, that Thune used to avoid direct moral condemnation of Trump’s misogyny last summer.

Rep. Kristi Noem told WNAX last week that Donald Trump is not her candidate. South Dakota’s lone Congresswoman says, “people came to this country for religious freedom,” so Trump’s proposal to ban Muslims from entering the United States is “un-American.” A couple breaths later, Rep. Noem blames Obama for the xenohphobia Trump is fanning, saying that “everybody in this country is very frustrated” because “this President and this administration have shown us how not to run a country and have placed a lot of burdens on individuals and people are struggling and so I think that frustration is evident at times.”

The man Noem has endorsed, Senator Marco Rubio, played the same blame-Obama game in Tuesday’s debate, saying he understands why Republicans would support Trump’s proposal, “because this President hasn’t kept us safe.” Noem has not weighed in on whether it was un-American for her man Marco to suggest shutting down mosques and other places where Muslims may gather.

Former New Jersey governor and EPA chief Christine Todd Whitman shows Rounds, Thune, and Noem how Republicans ought to respond to Trump’s fear-mongering. Rebuking Trump’s “selfishness, arrogance, and bigotry,” Whitman says Trump and other candidates are leading the Republican Party and the nation toward fascism:

Christine Todd Whitman (screen cap, interview with Eagleton Institute of Politics, 2013)
Christine Todd Whitman (screen cap, interview with Eagleton Institute of Politics, 2013)

It is no longer a stretch to compare Donald Trump, and some of the other current Republican candidates for president, to some of the worst dictators in history. Trump especially is employing the kind of hateful rhetoric and exploiting the insecurities of this nation, in much the same way that allowed Hitler and Mussolini to rise to power in the lead-up to World War II. The parallels are chilling. In pre-WWII Germany, the economy was in ruins, people were scared, and they wanted someone to blame. Today we find ourselves with a nation of people who feel under attack both physically and economically and are fearful. The middle class has never fully recovered economically from the Great Recession. Income disparity is growing, but demonizing with a broad-brush all “immigrants,” forgetting that nearly all of our ancestors were exactly that at one point in the past 400 years, is both dangerous and contrary to all this nation stands for. After Paris and San Bernardino, attacking Muslims, the vast majority of whom are peaceful adherents to their faith, has become fashionable [Christine Todd Whitman, “The Republican Party Must Defeat Trump Now,” Politico, 2015.12.16].

Maybe because she’s not running for office this cycle (unless this attack on Trump extremism is a signal that she’d like to enter the race late as a unity candidate at a brokered convention), Whitman doesn’t feel the need to shift the blame to President Obama. Whitman makes clear the people doing the damage to the party and the country are the hatemongers like Trump:

Language shapes behavior. Hateful language gives susceptible people permission to act on their fears. Preying on the marginalized who are scared of the future is the time-honored tactic of bullies and dictators. When times are difficult, people always look for someone to blame: It is easy to pick out a target. Today it is Muslims, but tomorrow it could be anyone. Hatred knows no bounds. As a Republican, I am particularly concerned by the rise of hate rhetoric within our party. We cannot ignore it, and we can no longer dismiss it as a passing fluke. The damage it is inflicting and the behavior it is inciting can last for years to come [Whitman, 2015.12.16].

In a call to rhetorical arms that should guide every candidate, Whitman says that rather than pandering to fear, “we must give hope… and a greater vision for America[] than the xenophobic slurry with which Trump has stained our party and our national discourse.” Now that’s how to call out fascism. It’s too bad South Dakota can’t produce leaders with the moral courage to make such statements.


  1. Donald Pay 2015-12-17 09:34

    Yeah, Steve, this equating of the first black president to Trump/Hitler is an example of Republicans failing to take responsibility for the hatred and fascism in their party.

    Obama is nothing if not a complete and total centrist. He ran as a centrist, and he’s governed like a technocratic centrist. And he’s never espoused any sort of hatred against anyone. At most, he’s made fun of the birtherism and its chief author (Trump). Like most bullies who got taken down a couple notches by sarcasm, Trump has gone on to bully other folks. He doesn’t want to defend his birtherism. Yeah, he’s really “tough.” He’s got a big mouth and that’s it. Everything else is puny: brain, soul and, well, you can fill in the blank.

    There was a time when Republicans came up with ideas that didn’t have something to do with bullying some racial minority or kicking some religious minority. Cap and trade, the core of Obamacare—Republican ideas. What the Republicans are doing is turning on themselves and their ideas to satisfy a fascist-style racism.

  2. Steve Hickey 2015-12-17 10:17

    You brought up race. Not me. Didn’t even cross my mind. Centrist? Maybe the centre of the left.

    Trump is being misquoted. He has never said no more Muslims in America though that is what people want him to believe. They are escalating this issue as much as he is. He has clearly said until sufficient vetting can be done, no more Muslim immigration. Again, I’m not a Trumper.

  3. Richard Schriever 2015-12-17 10:24

    Noem; “… not to run a country…. (is to)….have placed a lot of burdens on individuals….”

    What?? Is Snooki saying that a properly run government relieves “burdens” from individuals? Doesn’t that sound like socialism to you?

  4. Richard Schriever 2015-12-17 10:29

    That the Reverend Hickey finds a way to defend the Fascist Trump on a semantic technicality – is telling.

  5. Don Coyote 2015-12-17 10:35

    “unless this attack on Trump extremism is a signal that she’d like to enter the race late as a unity candidate at a brokered convention”

    Bwahahaha. Good one Cory. Tell me why you think so highly of Whitman, whose election to New Jersey’s governor’s seat was predicated on the suppression of the black vote by her campaign manager Ed Rollins?

  6. larry kurtz 2015-12-17 10:37

    Trump is the best thing to happen to the GOP since Eisenhower.

  7. Steve Hickey 2015-12-17 10:39

    O please Richard, semantic technicality?

    “You can’t see Star Wars” is very very different than “you can’t see Star Wars until my machine here can scan your ticket.”

    There is enough to hammer on any candidate without resorting to misinformation campaigns against them.

  8. Bill Fleming 2015-12-17 10:49

    Let’s bring this home for you Hickey. Change one word:

    “…until sufficient vetting can be done, no more Christian immigration.”
    “…until sufficient vetting can be done, no more Jewish immigration.”
    “…until sufficient vetting can be done, no more Catholic immigration.”
    “…until sufficient vetting can be done, no more Athiest immigration.”

    You okay with ALL those? If not, why not?

    Time to put your American hat back on, brother, and lose the tinfoil.

  9. Bill Fleming 2015-12-17 11:10

    From Larry’s link:

    “Trump calls for a cutoff of immigration of Muslims “until we can figure out what the hell is going on” — which, given our political culture’s seeming propensity to never figure out much of anything, might be forever. Then again, he’s raising a real question. Says Trump: “There’s tremendous hatred. Where it comes from, I don’t know.” Now, a reasonable stance would be to say let’s stop bombing until “we can figure out what the hell is going on.”

  10. larry kurtz 2015-12-17 11:14

    Trump runs the risk of committing Fiorina’s sin when she lied about Planned Parenthood further radicalizing jihadists in the Republican Party but it looks like he’s okay with that.

  11. Steve Hickey 2015-12-17 11:24

    No Bill, please don’t miss the obvious. If Christian, Jewish, Catholic and Atheists were waging jihad on America and exploiting a legitimate refugee crisis then, yes, these groups wait until they can be cleared. It is not fascist to be prudent?

    Didn’t I mention here a week ago my dad telling me of the chaos of going village to village in Vietnam… no VC, no VC, no VC …the people said. But they exercised extreme caution (prudence is the virtue) anyway. This is a global war we are in. Why is that so hard to see?

    I read this morning about a couple Muslim immigrants Sweden welcomed in murdering a gay man, dressing him in women clothes and wrapping a snake around his neck.

    The left probably has more reason to resist Islam than the right at least on the gay issue. Shouldn’t we be intolerant of those who hate our lifestyles?

  12. Steve Sibson 2015-12-17 11:31

    ‘Trump’s proposal to ban Muslim’s from entering the United States is “un-American.”’

    Taking Trump out of context so that you can protect the President from his pro-Islamic, anti-American agenda is liberal journalism, but not the truth. Trump’s position is suppose to be temporary, unless the immigration officials can’t tell the difference between apostate Muslims and those who understand the Jihadist doctrine inherent in the Islamic worldview.

  13. larry kurtz 2015-12-17 11:39

    Sibby’s right, Cory: you did make Muslims a possessive and not a plural in your post.

  14. Donald Pay 2015-12-17 11:51

    But the issue here, Steve, is that Muslims are NOT waging jihad on America. And Christians are NOT committing terrorism on Planned Parenthood. In each case these are extremist groups consisting of very few individuals who claim to be Muslim or Christian. They choose to use distortion of truth along with guns and bombs to make themselves appear “tough,” to use a favorite Trumpism.

    The Republican Party is so chicken s— that it cowers behind idiotic phrases that people like Trump and Cruz spew. I mean, really, Cruz is going to “carpet bomb” civilians, Muslims, Christians and Jews, who have every reason to hate ISIS more than we do, because there is no desire to really understand the complexity of other human beings who live under the ISIS terror. Just accuse them all of “waging Jihad,” and you can excuse a lot of sins. Well, you can, but would God? Maybe we should be questioning all Christians over the terrorist attacks on Planned Parenthood. But then that wouldn’t be fair, would it?

  15. caheidelberger Post author | 2015-12-17 11:51

    [Good grief, I did slip in an incorrect apostrophe! Sorry! Editing now!]

  16. mike from iowa 2015-12-17 11:53

    It is a global war,one pretty much fabricated and facilitated by some of the stupidest,gawd-forsaken,fauxknee kristian politicians known to history.Did I mention they’re fake kristians?

  17. caheidelberger Post author | 2015-12-17 12:02

    Donald’s opening comment gets me thinking… some Republicans could parse centrist Obama’s statements, proposals, and background into fake fascism, but now, unlike Whitman and other sensible voices, those same anti-Obama Nazi criers can’t call out a real fascist in their midst.

    Come on, Republicans! Where do you think Trump’s people are going to go? I’ll bet a third are making noise but won’t show up to vote and wouldn’t have otherwise. Half will get past the primary and vote GOP anyway. The remaining sixth will split between folks who will mark D in November and folks who will mark whatever third-party option is available as a protest vote. That sixth of the Trump vote that you might lose for whacking Trump will be made up for by the moderate masses who would line up behind you and admire your guts for whacking Trump as a fascist and taking up the banner of principle and tradition that Whitman is waving. Showing moral leadership in destroying Trump and saying “America and the Republican Party are better than this” could be the path to distinction from the remaining GOP field.

  18. Bill Fleming 2015-12-17 12:05

    No Pastor H., I didn’t miss the obvious, I pointed out the obvious. All of the religious groups I mentioned at one time or the other have had sub-sects who committed horrific atrocities on a global scale, and to this day it’s questionable whether anyone alive has ever “figured out what the hell (was) going on.”

    Religious affiliation should never be used as criteria for immigration. Period. It’s in violation of the Constitution you yourself have many times sworn to uphold and defend.

  19. mike from iowa 2015-12-17 12:05

    Hickey,many of us have chastened your side for sleeping with the koch bros and others who absolutely despise the lifestyles of the elderly and poor and the people themselves. Trump just happens to be the face and loudmouth voice that gets the publicity for you and yours.

    Trump and his ilk are the very types of people your lord and saviour warned you about. Do the world a favor and cast the first of many stones.

  20. bearcreekbat 2015-12-17 12:21

    Hickey is right to condemn those who murder homosexuals. But I wonder why he only mentions when a Muslim advocates killing them.

    What about Pastor Kevin Swanson, an American “Christian” who openly argues that God tells us gays should be killed and the Presidential candidates (Cruz, Huckabee, Jindal) that he invites to speak at his events and cheer his anti-gay jihad?

    As Cory’s reporting shows, words matter and hate speech matters. People with fringe beliefs are encouraged by such words to harm or kill members of groups demonized by the likes of Swanson, Trump, Fiorina, Cruz, Huckabee, Carson, et al.

    As an anti-death sentence Republican, why doesn’t Hickey condemn this behavior instead of making semantic apology arguments and spreading more hate toward innocent Muslims by focusing of the criminal actions of the extremists?

  21. Jenny 2015-12-17 13:06

    It’s almost bordering on mental illness with this paranoia and fear of Muslims, which is precisely why millions of Americans, many of them young millennials, want absolutely nothing to do with religion these days.
    Muslims are the bastard these days for the GOP. I wonder who the next targeted group will be next year. Got to give it to the GOP, they sure know how to promote hate and fear. Meanwhile, they’re just screwing themselves over on losing next year. You think they would learn with their anti-gay stance that hate doesn’t win elections except in uneducated unimportant states like SD.

  22. Roger Cornelius 2015-12-17 13:20

    Another ingredient of fascism besides bullying are the lies that liars tell. (I endured the full 4 1/2hours of the debate and heard so many lies it is difficult to recall all of them.
    Among the biggest and most repeated was Trump’s claim that immigrants and refugees aren’t properly vetted. It has been widely reported here and other media that the vetting process for the Syrian refugees can take 18 to 24 months. That should be more than adequate.
    Another whopper and repeated often was that Homeland Security and other government agencies can’t use social media to investigate refugees and immigrants, but Trumps says the feds can use that same social media to investigate Americans.
    Another one of Trump’s ideas was to shutdown “our” Internet in countries where there were suspected terrorists. The audience widely booed him for this is it goes against our 1st Amendments beliefs.
    Hitler lied, Mussolini lied, and Trump more than either one of themv

  23. Steve Sibson 2015-12-17 13:30

    “Republicans could parse centrist Obama’s statements, proposals, and background into fake fascism”

    Cory, you are promoting fake fascism:

    ” Rational discussions about National Socialism are often hard to come by. The word “Nazi” has become a vitriolic buzzword that only the Left has a license to use, especially against conservatives where many on the so-called political right are metaphorically and wrongfully characterized as present day fascists.”

    Environmentalists, including Obama, are the real Nazi styled fascists:

    “Romanticism is an early form of what is otherwise known today as environmentalism. National Socialism also borrowed heavily from the anti-Semitic environmental ethics and natural existentialism of Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860) together with the atheistic earth based superman values of Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900). Schopenhauer and Nietzsche were the Fuhrer’s favorite philosophers.”

    So in regard to fascism, where does this place you Cory?

  24. larry kurtz 2015-12-17 13:32

    Yeah, Cory: you and your environmental fascist sidekicks are bad hombres!

  25. larry kurtz 2015-12-17 13:34

    Sibby, you’re aware Hitler was a puppet of American industrialists, right?

  26. larry kurtz 2015-12-17 13:38

    If i could unilaterally take Mitchell off coal, hydroelectric and natural gas i’d do it, Sibby.

  27. larry kurtz 2015-12-17 13:47

    If i could order EPA to make South Dakota sue to clean up the James, Big Sioux and Cheyenne Rivers i’d do it.

  28. larry kurtz 2015-12-17 13:48

    If i could order the US Army Corps of Engineers to tear out all the Missouri River dams i’d do it.

  29. Steve Hickey 2015-12-17 13:51

    Lots of progressive left Europeans over here wanting to shut the borders saying enough is enough. O those fear-mongering fascists picking on one religion that has declared one on the West, no religion is perfect.

    The labelling disinterests me. We do it, you do it. It totally shuts the conversation down to be arguing over whether Trump is a fascist. Remember that time the SCOTUS shut down Roosevelt’s economic fascism and the implementation of a Mussolini-type fascist economic system in America. Which party today is more for a fascist/paternalistic government over the citizenry?

    See this gets us nowhere. Let’s talk about what Trump actually said or we are just minions.

  30. Loren 2015-12-17 13:54

    Couldn’t SD save a lot of money by just having our delegation stay home and each of us subscribing to “Weekly Republican Talking Points”?

  31. larry kurtz 2015-12-17 13:54

    There is a shadow government over which no American president, congress or supreme court has any control. The American Constitution survives an extinction level event whether we like it or not.

  32. Donald Pay 2015-12-17 14:01

    I would hardly call Obama an environmentalist, Sibby. His administration’s record on the environment is certainly mixed, even if he talks a good line.

  33. Lanny V Stricherz 2015-12-17 14:06

    Interesting article Reverend Hickey. But fascist, really? Why hasn’t the SCOTUS said anything about the government instituted FED, which is the most fascist institution that this country has ever had. It protects the banks and in the last 15 years has actually given the banks free money. That 5% that you got on your passbook saving when you were a kid allowed the banks to lend the money out at 7, 8, 9 even 10 per cent. Lending it at 10 meant that they were making 50% profit or doubling their money. When they pay nothing because the government is not charging them anything and they lend it out at 2.9 or 5 or 6% their profit is infinitesimal.

    And to top it all off, when it does a crappy job of regulating the economy, the FED talks the government into having the taxpayers bail the banks out as it has done twice in the last thirty years.

  34. Lanny V Stricherz 2015-12-17 14:10

    Just got this email from Faithful America.

    Dear Faithful America member,

    Wheaton College, sometimes described as the Harvard of the evangelical world, has suspended a professor after she wore a hijab in solidarity with Muslims facing persecution.

    Larycia Hawkins, who has taught at Wheaton for almost a decade, decided to wear the hijab during Advent after a rise in violent attacks on Muslims and mosques across America. When asked why, she quoted Pope Francis’s statement that Muslims and Christians “worship the same God.”

    Wheaton reacted by suspending Hawkins, claiming that her comments violated the school’s statement of faith. She now faces a formal review and could be fired.

    With the story making national headlines, we need to show Wheaton that Christians across the country support Professor Hawkins’ gesture of solidarity with Muslims.

    Tell Wheaton College: Reinstate Christian professor who wore a hijab in solidarity


    – Michael

  35. Steve Hickey 2015-12-17 14:12

    Couldn’t agree more, Lanny. Down with the Fed.

    “Give me control of a nation’s money and I care not who makes it’s laws.”
    — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

  36. Steve Hickey 2015-12-17 14:15

    But again, we need to get the story right. She wasn’t fired for wearing a hijab in solidarity with Muslims. I’ll wear one tomorrow in solidarity with Muslims.

    She was fired for a significant doctrinal statement that runs counter to the institutions accepted beliefs. A private Christian school has every right to make sure their professors profess their faith.

  37. larry kurtz 2015-12-17 14:20

    faith is to truth as dragons are to fossils.

  38. larry kurtz 2015-12-17 14:25

    Trump is a Republican like Sanders is a Democrat.

  39. Lanny V Stricherz 2015-12-17 15:22

    With some people following Trump as their hero, says a lot about the American people. One needs to remember that Hitler and Mussolini were able to stir up the fascist attitudes in people in the 1930s because after the First World War, the Spanish Grippe killed between 20 and 40 million people. It was followed quickly by the world wide stock market crash and Depression. Millions of people were going hungry and had lost everything that they owned. Even in the United States, there was no safety net like we have now with social security and medicare and now medicaid.

    My point being, the Trump followers are probably not the people who are hurting the most in this country right now, but they have it a little tougher possibly than they would like, but more than likely are Trumpers because they don’t like the Black President, or don’t like Hispanics or Muslims, not because they are starving to death or lost everything.

  40. leslie 2015-12-17 15:22

    that private christian school (not that there is anything wrong with that!) has a tax-free exemption right?

  41. Les 2015-12-17 16:13

    There is one force in the universe perpetuating everything the above posters are fighting over. Follow the money.

    While we fight each other over ignorance and misunderstanding they continue driving their agenda.

    Jihadists hate us for killing them.

    Americans have no faith in anything so yes they are frightened.

    Most members of both parties voted for these GD wars.

  42. caheidelberger Post author | 2015-12-17 16:17

    Roger C, your comment about fascists’ lying tactic takes me to the Aberdeen library thread. A couple of commenters mentioned that some people didn’t vote because they couldn’t sort out the claims and counterclaims. I wondered how we get people to do stick around for the vote, to exercise their critical thinking, identify reliable authorities, and take a reasonable side. The fascist approach appears to be to establish authority simply shouting more. Pick a big lie, repeat it audaciously, count on a bunch of folks to get worn out and stay home, count on other folks to buy your lie (because why would anyone say such a lie so boldly, so often? it must be true!), and then call the brownshirts to scare away anyone left who might vote against you.

    Democrats can call Trump a fascist. So can the media. But to make the message stick, Republicans need to help. We need people like Whitman to say, “Trump’s a fascist,” over and over and over again, as vigorously as Trump says any of his lies. it shouldn’t be hard for the candidates on stage with Trump to say this F-word, because in this case, they’d be telling the truth.

  43. caheidelberger Post author | 2015-12-17 16:20

    Sibby, you’re trying to build a real car out of Legos. It’s fun and diverting, but you’ll never get something that will carry us down the street to Kessler’s to buy booze and bullets (dang—only 7 hours 40 minutes left on that sale).

    I’m not a fascist. Whitman is telling you that Republicans aren’t, either. The Left has no lock on that word, and this isn’t just a word game. It’s a real discussion of real threats to the GOP and our national principles.

  44. leslie 2015-12-17 16:41

    oh, les…its a republicans’ war; quit trying to say dems are as bad as u guys…they are not by any stretch of exaggeration. before obstruction, there was “you are not a patriot” while NYC was steaming.

  45. caheidelberger Post author | 2015-12-17 16:43

    We’re going to get distracted if we leap from Whitman to Wheaton. I’ll just note that, on cursory review of the reportage, Wheaton’s Statement of Faith, and the school’s official statement on placing Dr. Hawkins on paid administrative leave, I agree tentatively with Hickey: she didn’t get in trouble for wearing a hijab; she got canned for making a theological statement that runs counter to Wheaton’s Statement of Faith and arguably to Wheaton’s Community Covenant (Hickey, help me out: can one be said to “acknowledge the Lordship of Christ over all of life and thought” and “give faithful witness to the Gospel” when one claims that Muslims, who do not acknowledge said Lordship and who tell a frankly whackier tale of Jesus’s life and death than the Gospels, worship the same God as Christians? Do Christians and Muslims believe in the same God if Muslims deny the divinity and the saving death of Jesus on the cross?).

    Wheaton is not engaged in fascism. Wheaton is a private institution exercising its private authority over its workforce. Its students can also exercise their private right to associate with the school or transfer to the University of Chicago or Northwestern if they disagree with the administration.

    But whatever’s happening at Wheaton, Trump is still a fascist.

  46. Roger Cornelius 2015-12-17 16:46

    The real talk is not to explain or justify what Trump has repeatedly lied about and repeated often. That is Muslims should be banned from this country. He said it, he owns it.
    A few days later Trump was confronted on CNN about this fascist comment, he than changed his stance to all refugees and immigrants should be temporarily band while we figure this out.
    Trump is trying to figure something out that the rest of the country already knows. Terrorist have infiltrated and they aren’t necessarily Syrians and we are likely to see more of it. The question is how do stop the terrorism and how do we stop Trump and GOP from inciting them?
    I listened to the full debate and didn’t come away with much on how the GOP can protect America, just more fear and lies.
    The one bright spot was to hear Jeb Bush take on Trump for his idiocy, the other candidates remained lords to Trump. Bush said at one point that Trump “would be a chaos president”.

  47. mike from iowa 2015-12-17 16:52

    Roger-you are a very brave man for putting up with 4 plus hours of drivel. Did you catch this whopper from Christie? In the debate the other night, Chris Christi said —

    “When I stand across from King Hussein of Jordan, I say to him you have a friend sir who will stand with you to fight this fight,” Christie said during Tuesday’s Republican primary debate, making the case that the president is not trusted by the leaders of Jordan and Saudi Arabia because of the nuclear deal with Iran.

    King Hussein of Jordan has been dead since 1999, so you gotta kinda wonder where Christie is gonna go to capitalized on that trust.

  48. mike from iowa 2015-12-17 16:54

    Wasn’t Wheaton the school that absolutely could not comply with federal regs and fill out a form so they would not have to pay for contraceptives. They convinced the Scotus it was too much of a burden to overcome?

  49. bearcreekbat 2015-12-17 16:56

    And how about that Carly Fiorina (Hickey’s choice). She spit out two whoppers in a single sentence.

    ” . . . Fiorina listed off a number of retired generals – “Petraeus, McChrystal, Mattis, Keane, Flynn” – whom she would “bring back” into service. “Every one was retired early because they told President Obama things that he didn’t want to hear,” she said. Citing David Petraeus made absolutely no sense – he retired because Obama nominated him as CIA director, and then he resigned because of a security breach related to the extramarital affair he was having. But invoking Gen. Jack Keane was the real howler of the bunch, given that he retired in 2003, a full five years before Obama was elected president. Keane confirmed to Fox News that he’s never even spoken to President Obama, and that Fiorina’s assessment was “not accurate.”

  50. larry kurtz 2015-12-17 16:58

    Fiorina and Huck are on life support, bat. Hickey is not the enemy.

  51. leslie 2015-12-17 17:05

    jeb has been watchin survivor cambodia

  52. bearcreekbat 2015-12-17 17:07

    larry, I agree that Hickey is not the enemy. Indeed, I fully supported his view on the death penalty repeal.

    The real enemy includes various policy proposals that he supports and his defense of demagogues like Fiorina and Trump whose inflammatory statements lead the unhinged to commit murder, assault and arson.

    I really hope you are right about Huckabee and Fiorina being toast. Otherwise we could be looking at a theocratic World War III of Christians vs Muslims.

  53. Roger Cornelius 2015-12-17 17:18

    mfi and bat,
    The post debate fact checkers caught these blatant lies by Christie and Fiorina. How can we trust these republicans with our national security when they don’t know fact from fiction?

    The lies swirling at the liars club meeting should scare any God fearing American.

    I did enjoy watching Trump sputtering when he was called out for his internet comment, it pissed him off royally.

    There wasn’t a candidate on that stage that I would trust my personal security with, let alone national security.

  54. caheidelberger Post author | 2015-12-17 17:19

    World War III? That’s what Rand Paul said in Tuesday’s debate that Chris Christie is angling for… as might every other GOP candidate

    Roger C: chaos president isn’t a bad line. Is that the closest any of the GOP candidates have come to Whitman’s stern assessment of Trump? Maybe I should start cheering for Jeb. Didn’t his brother George W. come back from an apparent decline in 1999 to win the nomination?

  55. Roger Cornelius 2015-12-17 17:34

    Yeah Cory, George was seriously down in the 1999 campaign, daddy and brother had to jump in and save him with their big bucks. Wasn’t his candidacy also saved by a multitude of lies such as Swiftboating Kerry?

    The other good line delivered by Jeb was, “Donald you can’t bully your way into the White House”.

    I could be seriously wrong, but I’m keeping my eye on Bush as a dark horse. He has the financial backing (50 to 100 million in PAC money) to hang in there and hope Trump loses one or two of the early primaries.

  56. Bill Fleming 2015-12-17 17:34

    The thing that frustrates me is how many lies the press lets past unchallenged. Chuck Todd on Meet the Press is just awful about it. I’ve gotta think Tim Russert rolls over in his grave almost every Sunday Morning. I have an idea on how to fix that. Have a team of 5 live fact-checkers on staff with “false” buttons in front of them, and every time somebody tells an obvious lie, have them hit it. Then at the end of each interview, show us how many lies the guy told. You know… news as public service. What a concept.

  57. larry kurtz 2015-12-17 17:39

    While Trump gets the press the Bushes are getting away with legalized murder. Makes me wanna puke.

  58. Richard Schriever 2015-12-17 17:54

    Sibson; “Environmentalists, including Obama, are the real Nazi styled fascists…”

    Actually Sibby – that is the OPPOSITE to what Fascism is. Fascism is the OWNERSHIP of the state by private industry interests. Fascism is also the OPPOSITE to what Socialism is (the ownership of industry by the state) People – expressing their concerns over the ABUSE of the environment – which we all depend on for life itself – by a FEW corporate profiteers is NEITHER one.

  59. Roger Cornelius 2015-12-17 18:03

    Brother Bill,
    Tim would likely give Todd a good schooling, Chuck will say whatever is necessary to placate a guest.
    The other interesting part of the debate was that the candidates didn’t know when to call out the lies others were telling. You’d think that everyone on that stage would be prepared enough to recognize a lie, instead they only reinforced each other.

  60. Richard Schriever 2015-12-17 18:06

    And, FWIW, GW never did get “saved” by daddy and bro’s $$$. he got saved by the SCOTUS and their election interference/fraud.

  61. Roger Cornelius 2015-12-17 18:08

    Richard S.
    Therein lies the problems with conservatives like Sibson or Hickey, they can’t recognize what true Fascism is. Fascism isn’t what you chose to call it or just another word to incite hate it has a real meaning.
    President Obama is the furthest thing from an fascist.

  62. larry kurtz 2015-12-17 18:11

    Anyone still using commercial teevee for their news is an idiot.

  63. Roger Cornelius 2015-12-17 18:13

    You’re right Richard S., I messed up years. Attribute it to a failing memory.

  64. Roger Cornelius 2015-12-17 18:14

    I don’t feel like an idiot, Larry.
    In fact I use a multiple of news sources.

  65. larry kurtz 2015-12-17 18:17

    Roger: how should Democrats unseat Noem and Thune?

  66. mike from iowa 2015-12-17 18:22

    And don’t forget dumbass dubya and his band of liars were lying about Clinton before the inaugural saying the Clinton administration did millions of dollars of damage on their way out of the White House. Bushes first press spokeweasel Ari Fleischer started his first conference(I believe) stating that he would be disseminating false press releases from time to time.

  67. mike from iowa 2015-12-17 18:23


  68. grudznick 2015-12-17 18:29

    Mr. kurtz might be right. Twitter and blogs are the only accurate source of news. But teevee still has those news girls!

  69. Roger Cornelius 2015-12-17 18:35

    To unseat Thune and Noem, we need to do it the old fashion way through the democratic process.
    If that doesn’t work, we cheat like hell!!

  70. grudznick 2015-12-17 19:15

    Lar’s Libertarians have a better shot of unseating Ms. Noem or Mr. Thune than the SDDP does. At least, unless Lar signs back on board the donkey and starts leading the way. Which he can’t do from his home down there in New Mexico where he writes bitter missives to that pretty young governor they have.

  71. larry kurtz 2015-12-17 19:50

    Lynn, are you going to respect your sidekick grud in the morning?

  72. grudznick 2015-12-17 20:01

    She always does, Lar. She always does.

  73. Les 2015-12-17 21:46

    Most lies are just mistakes, Cory. If you’d have known better you could have twisted the truth! ;)

  74. Donald Pay 2015-12-17 22:14

    Here’s what gets me. We all understand there are people like Trump who can lie repeatedly and say the most outrageous and hateful things. We all come to understand these people have various personality disorders. We all know someone in our personal lives who does this. We all figure out that person rather quickly, and we stay away as much as we can.

    What is it about someone like Trump that causes mass mental problems in otherwise decent people? I understand that some of them are outright racists, and IQ challenged folks. Still, I saw a number of his supporters in a Frank Luntz focus group. They didn’t appear to be flakes, yet they are under no illusion about the truth about what Trump says. Most of them say they understand that Trump “exaggerates.” Many say that much of what he says is wrong or bullying, but they like the fact that he has the courage to say it. Huh? Now I understand how Hitler rose to power.

    Yeah, politicians all lie, or at least shade the truth, but there are lies and then there is completely fabricated fantasy life that picks people to bully. Trump lives in a fantasy world, and he’s kicking people, and these folks don’t seem to care. He projects the kind of “toughness” these people like. Pipsqueaks like Trump don’t scare me. It’s his supporters you have to worry about.

  75. leslie 2015-12-18 00:28

    hilarious bill f. a red light flashing in front of a candidate on the “tv”. could change the total face of news delivery in the world. very funny. too expensive of overhead though.

  76. leslie 2015-12-18 00:32


  77. mike from iowa 2015-12-18 07:28

    Might just as well make a buck or two off Trump hysteria

  78. mike from iowa 2015-12-18 07:36

    Chauvinist Grudz and the Fake Noise Bimbo Eruptions and Fabricated Wardrobe Malfunctions to keep the masses drooling while they are spoon fed lie after lie as gospel.

    My ex-morning sunshine woman,Robin Meade,from HLN has every one of FNO’s bimbos beat seven ways from Sunday and she is a class act as well. Fabulous legs,infectious humor and laugh and reports actual.factual news. We broke up because I needed the money I was paying Dish Network(17 years) to pay other.more important obligations. I am w/o tv programming and it feels great.

  79. larry kurtz 2015-12-18 08:45

    From a media outlet based in a town and county named for a war criminal who led a genocide then murdered women and children:

    Allowing more people from Muslim countries to enter the United State now will forever change the face of America. We certainly don’t agree with everything Trump says, but we think it is overdue to have a timeout and discuss this serious immigration/refugee issue before it is too late.

  80. Mike Quinlivan 2015-12-19 09:58

    Submitted as a quick aside to the topic at hand, I find it slightly funny that Rev. Hickey is linking to Capitalism Magazine. It is run by Ayn Rand objectiveists (sic) who state freely that belief in the Lord is a weakness of character, and not logical.

  81. bearcreekbat 2015-12-19 11:06

    There was an enlightening story in today’s (12-19-15) RC Journal describing some of the harm caused to Muslim American young children by the Trump, et al, hate speech demonizing Muslims. ABC News confirms this problem.

    “After seeing presidential candidate Donald Trump call on television for barring Muslims from entering the country, 8-year-old Sofia Yassini checked the locks on her family’s home in Plano, Texas, imagining the Army would take them away. She raced to her room and stuffed a pair of Barbie dolls, a tub of peanut butter and a toothbrush into a bag. She insisted on bringing boots for the long boat ride she imagined was coming.

    When her mother, Melissa, arrived home from her work as a human resources manager, Sofia ran into her arms and cried. . . .”

    “Ahad Khan, 12, came home from school in rural Westminster, Maryland, in tears because his best friend called him a future terrorist who couldn’t be trusted, according to Ahad’s father, Raza Khan.”

    “In the minds of children — many long on imagination and short on political understanding — phrases like “total and complete shutdown of Muslims” can be traumatic, experts say.

    “Children expect that society will be nurturing and protective,” said Mark DeAntonio, a child psychiatry professor at the University of California Los Angeles. “Statements implying detainment or exclusion for arbitrary reason like race ethnicity or religion create anxiety and trauma.”

    Pew research reports that approximately 1 million Muslim children live in the USA. That is 1 million reasons for conservatives to stop defending Trump’s, et al, demonization of Muslims. Are you listening Pastor?

  82. Lanny V Stricherz 2015-12-19 11:11

    Excellent post bcb.

    “Statements implying detainment or exclusion for arbitrary reason like race ethnicity or religion create anxiety and trauma.”

    Yeah, it’s not like we haven’t done it before and in fact aren’t doing it now.

  83. bearcreekbat 2015-12-19 11:21

    Thanks Lanny. As an atheist I never imagined I would find myself defending any particular religion, especially against people who say they are religious. Go figure.

  84. Lanny V Stricherz 2015-12-19 11:29

    Well bcb, for the past 13 or so years, I haven’t been able to discern whether I was an atheist or an agnostic, but just as the old saying, “there are no atheists in foxholes,” I had a situation in my life just recently that convinced me that I am neither. I am back to being a believer, I am just not sure as to where I fit. Thanks for giving me the chance to admit it.

  85. Porter Lansing 2015-12-19 11:34

    Excellent, bcb

  86. caheidelberger Post author | 2015-12-19 14:05

    Lanny, you’ve traveled full circle! Remarkable!

    Bearcreekbat, your excerpts on the psychic harm xenophobes like Trump are doing to a million American children who happen to be Muslim is very important. The kids don’t hear complex arguments about theology or national security. They hear powerful grownups saying, “We don’t like you. We’re coming to get you.”

    And not that you need my reassurances, BCB, but as I read your comment, you’re not necessarily defending a religion. You are defending children, human beings, from hatred.

  87. Lanny V Stricherz 2015-12-19 15:39

    Cory, Christians like to call it the Holy Spirit. Native Americans call it the Great Spirit. Pretty sure it is the same person, male or female.

    But yesterday, You and the good Reverend Hickey were defending the firing of the Professor who wore a Hijab. I think that somewhere in the Bible or Kiran, I have seen where, Jews, Muslims and Christians have the same Father, Abraham. Point being, yes if we are worshipers, we are worshiping the same God. I remember the time when women could not enter a Catholic Church without their head being covered.

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