After getting quotes from a couple California radicals opposed to vaccines, KELO-TV’s Tom Hanson gets a local Avera psychiatrist to characterize the choice between getting a coronavirus vaccine and losing one’s job with an employer who requires shots as a “tough decision“:
“What a tough decision to make if you really are contemplating leaving your job versus getting the vaccine,” said Dr. Mathew Stanley [Tom Hanson, “Unvaccinated Facing Mounting Pressure to Get Vaccinated or Lose Their Job,” KELO-TV, 2021.08.26].
KELO itself referred to that “tough decision” in its Twitter-tease for the story:
So let’s say your choice is get vaccinated or get fired.
You can get a safe and effective vaccine that will cost you one or two 15-minute appointments and not one penny. The vaccine will reduce the chances that coronavirus will send you, your loved ones, and people in your community to the hospital or the morgue. You will increase the chances that the pandemic will finally die down and that restaurants and stores and other businesses in your community will be able to stay open, make money, and generate tax revenues. Or you can lose your job and your paycheck while remaining at higher risk of getting covid, infecting others, and extending the social and economic damage of the pandemic.
If you are rational, that’s not a tough choice. You get the shot.
Even if you irrational—i.e., Republican—it’s not a tough choice. You don’t want to stick around some office or factory where management is a bunch of science-reading, socially conscious, Sino-Commie-dupe sissies! You want your Freedom™!
Choosing between getting a required vaccine and quitting your job is an easy choice, for both sides.
I don’t see any “tough decision.” Lots of jobs require various vaccinations. I worked with clients who had various health conditions. I had to be fully vaccinated. The issue for me wasn’t so much the job as not wanting to endanger the health of individuals with delicate health. I worked with a number of Down Syndrome adults who are very prone to respiratory diseases, and are 10 times more likely to die from Covid-19, if infected, than the rest of the population. I realize that vaccinated people can pass the virus on, but the viral load seems to be lower.
In my view, schools should require all those (students and staff) who can be vaccinated to get the shot, because to do otherwise is to unfairly put some special education students at risk. And masks need to be required. I think schools that fail to do this are putting themselves at risk of being held in violation of the various laws that protect the education of disabled students.
The following is a censored column with my opinions on the push/pull between creeping corporate governance and feckless government execution of responsibility.
—–
“conservatives want to regulate businesses to prevent them from requiring a Covid vaccine as a condition of employment”
I’m seeing a lot of folks across the political spectrum making this argument.
It assumes the premise that the shots are safe and effective.
Please allow me a moment to frame the issue correctly and address the false false premise that the shots are safe and effective.
It’s a fallacy of reasoning to claim that fully informed employers are just trying to keep their employees safe. Employers have been informed of the dangers, and the global context in which these shots are being administered is dubious.
I would call it negligence in the best case if any employee suffers an adverse effect from the experimental MRNA shots, whose manufacturers enjoy the indemnity that comes with the Emergency Use Authorization still in effect despite the crafty alleged approval from the FDA (no labels, but we have other reasons to question the FDA’s approval and track record).
Employers should not be compelled, coerced, or forced to do things to hurt their employees. If so, the Governor and South Dakota Law Enforcement should be ready to pounce on those doing the compelling, coercion, or forcing. Given the documented potential violence of the shots, whose efficacy is in question, could Sanford administration be prosecuted for extortion? Who is making the money from these shots?
Should employers be prosecuted appropriately if harm comes from actions taken to protect employees in the suggested fashion? Are employers liable if they take no forced action and someone contracts and dies of a coronavirus? Both of these issues have been settled in philosophy, common sense, and law; yes and no. Taking a person’s life or livelihood in such a violent fashion (shots) is worthy of prosecutorial consideration, and nobody can reasonably prevent all human death.
One example to help us understand is installing asbestos tiles to prevent fire, but giving installers and others lung (and other) cancers. This mistake was the gift that kept on giving since the cost of removing asbestos was externalized to subsequent property owners, as was the harm given to demolitionists and those in their vicinity. Consider the Twin Towers on 9/11.
If employers are informed of the dangers, informed that the FDA approval doesn’t take effect until the labels are on the vials, informed of the possibility for death, informed of the possibility of a litany of drastic and shocking side effects, and informed of the inefficacious nature of this hurried (and therefore not conservative by definition) procedure, but still proceed, the employer should be prosecuted criminally; murder and felony assault (or nuanced sub-definitions applicable to the medical industry) may apply in cases of informed consent of the employer. No need for a new law necessarily, but clarification from a dutiful deliberation by our legislature could help clarify the issue and identify those in our legislature who are not doing the job (along with their respective staffs) of being correct on important issues.
The protests outside of Sanford, and likely the stream of letters informing Sanford administration (and others) of the dangers constitutes informed consent of the employer.
When it comes to shots and logic, garbage in, garbage out.
Conservatism does not dictate we allow corporations to become so large and monopolistic that South Dakota should change one of its most beautiful and important mottos from “Under God the People Rule” to “Under Corporate Rule you will take the shot to feed your family and pay back your student loans”.
Governor Noem’s staff and donors bear responsibility for our governor being so woefully misinformed in my opinion.
I would fire the lot of them and start issuing refunds.
The answer is not necessarily legislation and “larger government”, a phrase that gets bandied about by those in corporate America lacking moral conscience in lusting for profits at the expense of human health. That said, convening our deliberative body around this issue would be the most conservative thing to do since our representatives can TAKE THE TIME TO ferret out the right answer before we would allow a corporation and an army of nameless, international, distributed activist stockholders to penetrate the bodies of South Dakota’s people, thereby opening a wound into which an unverifiable substance is injected with known and documented disastrous consequences (VAERS).
Slow down. Convene the legislature. Convening the legislature is not making law or big government. It is allowing our representatives to deliberate, a most important task we the people of South Dakota have entrusted.
Most important, find out who in our South Dakota government and bureaucracy keeps fumbling the proverbial “conservative” football.
“Employers should not be compelled, coerced, or forced to do things to hurt their employees.”
EXACTLY. And this is why Noem shouldn’t put any mandates with regard businesses enforcing vaccinations in the workplace so COVID can run roughshod over people. Thanks John!
‘Public health is now under attack in a way that it has not been before’
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/cnns-leana-wen-public-health-is-now-under-attack-in-a-way-that-it-has-not-been-before/2021/08/19/42c76184-ef0b-11eb-a452-4da5fe48582d_story.html
Why anyone would pay $30,000+ for a hospital stay instead of a free inoculation and wearing a mask while shopping or in class remains a mystery.
South Dakota’s unregulated medical industry triopoly is cutting a fat hog for sure but when staffing becomes impossible no doubt Governor Noem will just send in the National Guard with Jason Ravnsborg commanding.
Anti-masker-vaxer proves a point.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/texas-anti-mask-covid-caleb-wallace_n_61285af4e4b0f562f3dc5224
Only insurance premiums will save the day as they are now rising for the unvaccinated. Money speaks loudly and makes me smile to watch this. So there ya go. Who knew that Delta Airlines would open the door to kick the Delta variance arse. Even the State of South Dakota is an employer who is being hit by high claims. So they can only do what they can do, charge more. Gotta love it. Do the same as what happens if you use tobacco, pay to play.
Thankfully John Dale and yours truly, are vaccinated.
The main reason people resist vaccinations and masks is that they fixate on what is perceived as “giving up freedom” instead of focusing on not dying or causing others to die. Regardless, those same people will take worming medicine made for horse and cows while discrediting a free inoculation or concealing their unhygienic mugs.
Well…I can’t be “free” if I’m dead.
I’m a veteran,vaccinated and wear a mask. Never lost a bit of freedom. My parents taught me to respect and care for others as I might need the favor returned some day.
Been around horses that have been given the medication. Me, if I cough, I don’t want to fill my pants and that is likely to happen if a human takes that medication, in fact, it’s a sure bet. Social distancing by crapping oneself doesn’t make much sense.
Go ahead republicans, take that Ivermectin just to humor the hell out of me. ghwahahah what entertainment https://static5.businessinsider.com/people-on-ivermectin-think-theyre-pooping-worms-but-its-vegetables-2021-8?op=1
Science, is just a word to republicans, clueless on what it means.
Anne
Thank you for the link to Dr. Leana Wen’s interview. She specifies:
“…The second thing is the Biden administration really needs to get behind a vaccine verification system. There are many private enterprises, including concert venues, gyms, workplaces, universities, that want to create safe environments where people can be unmasked, but that only works if they are vaccinated.
And then third, I think that the federal government needs to move in the direction of vaccine mandates. Another way to reframe this is, everybody needs to do a health screen. So everybody needs to go for twice-weekly testing. But you can opt out of it if you have a vaccine.”
Disincentives/incentives/expectations are necessary to cut through the objections of those who don’t follow social contract theory but will if they have something to lose or gain. (Cory has clearly addressed the social contract in a recent response of his). “Social contract theory says that people live together in society in accordance with an agreement that establishes moral and political rules of behavior. ” And hygienic behavior, ie., matters of public health.
Well John is impressing himself with his own intelligence again, but he’s got a good point in a reverse way of course. People who aren’t vaccinated are currently driving the outbreak. They should be charged with manslaughter since the ratio of deaths by covid is millions more than the vaccine. The employee would lose in court not the employer. Its as simple as you are John.
I am an old RA (Regular Army) veteran. I have two documents I’ve saved from my service; shot records from Fort Anniston, and a DD-214 from Fort Carson.
My cohorts and I stood in line and received measles, rubella, mumps, tetanus, whooping cough, polio, and smallpox vaccinations. We had no choice, and we didn’t bitch about it.
If I recall correctly, in 1975 or 1976 all service members were required to receive the Swine Flu shot. Did that.
I have cheerfully and gratefully received my Covid-19 shots and have masked since March 2020 and can do this standing on my head to prevent the spread of disease.
I am an old RA (Regular Army) veteran. I have two documents I’ve saved from my service; shot records from Fort McLellan, and a DD-214 from Fort Carson.
My cohorts and I stood in line and received measles, rubella, mumps, tetanus, whooping cough, polio, and smallpox vaccinations. We had no choice, and we didn’t bitch about it.
If I recall correctly, in 1975 or 1976 all service members were required to receive the Swine Flu shot. Did that.
I have cheerfully and gratefully received my Covid-19 shots and have masked since March 2020 and can do this standing on my head to prevent the spread of disease.
There’s always a price to pay, no matter the decision, something the “freedom lovers” who think they are “immune” (hah!) from any consequences whatsoever have yet to grasp. (They need read more Freud on just what castration involves).
Ms. Fairbank, good trooper that you are, here is some unasked for advice from another old soldier. File your DD214 at the Register of Deeds so that it will be safe. Whenever you may need a copy, they will give you a certified copy of the one that you registered.
Bonnie B Fairbank
Thank you for sharing you vaccination testimony and for your service.
I filed my DD214 with the Register, but they got the copy, I have the original.
Good deal cibvet. I’ve had mine on file for a long time. Needed it when I had my roof replaced. GAF rebated me $250.00 with proof of service that I sent to them. Had to be a certified copy or no waling around money. Walking around money is a good thing.
Fantastic news for anti-vaxxers, just what you want to hear…..
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/north-bay/26-covid-19-cases-linked-to-unvaccinated-marin-county-elementary-school-teacher-cdc/2642763/
Louis Cypher has a special place for you in Hell!
The pandemic is a war we are fighting, at least according to former President Trump. How do we win a war?
To win a war, be it with Afghanistan or covid is with solidarity, wartime solidarity. Sadly, we haven’t had enough in either war, Afghanistan or covid
Mr. H, please stop claiming all Republicans are against the covid bug shots. grudznick got them and encourages, nay, demands all others get them too.
I say if you are not vaccinated you should get no sick leave from your employer.
grudznick doesn’t speak for SoDak Republicans.
He actually knows how to read.
Grudz are you a Lincoln project pub? I won’t call you a RINO but the trumpies would for sure even though they are the reals RINOs. It’s very difficult to place a real Republican anymore since their standards have sunk so low in terms of honesty and integrity. Its a beech isn’t it?
Joe Rogan has antibodies, now.
So do I.
We’re the antibody brothers.