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Moms Want Discussion of Red-Flag Laws to Prevent Gun Deaths

Gun owner, gun user, and journalist Kevin Woster went to an organizational meeting of “Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense” in Rapid City last week. Part of the discussion was about red-flag laws, which allow judges to order guns taken from folks the judges think pose a threat to themselves or others. Woster agrees with these moms that we should discuss such measures:

The laws are popular with Moms Demand Action, a relatively new group here in Rapid City but with a more established presence East River. The South Dakota Chapter leader is Shannon Hoime, a pediatrician in Sioux Falls who got involved in the gun-safety issue because of jarring statistics from real-life tragedies.

“Based on CDC statistics from 2017, South Dakota is seventh in the nation in suicides, and firearms are the most common means people use,” Hoime said.

In South Dakota suicide is the second-leading cause of death in age groups from children to 44-year-old adults.

“My take is anytime we’re facing statistics like that we should use any and all available tools we have to help save lives,” Hoime said [Kevin Woster, “Red-Flag Law Deserves Discussion,” Rapid City Journal, 2019.05.05].

Of course, when I mention a story about another casual-carry devotee fumbling his gun and causing injury by intentional discharge and a state legislator feels the need to distract from the discussion of the danger gun absolutism poses to civilians by screaming about socialism in Venezuela, we can be sure that a red-flag law will go nowhere in Pierre.


  1. Nick Nemec 2019-05-06 10:06

    A comment at the bottom of the Twitter thread you linked to got me thinking. If an elected official communicates with constituents through Twitter can they block a constituent?
    Have the courts ever addressed this issue?

  2. mike from iowa 2019-05-06 10:41

    Dead guy in link reacted in a way consistent with needing to have his guns taken away. Ammosexuals and NRA thugs pushing the ideas your gun rights are inviolate need to be held liable.

  3. leslie 2019-05-06 10:47

    Stace: yawwwn

    larry kurtzMay 4, 2019 at 7:00 AM
    Socialized agriculture, socialized dairies, socialized cheese, socialized livestock production, a socialized timber industry, socialized air service, socialized freight rail and now a socialized nursing home industry are all fine with Republicans in South Dakota but then they insist single-payer medical insurance is socialized medicine. It’s red state hypocrisy on parade.

    (replying to
    “…in the genitals.” Is where Socialism kicks the people when it’s not running them over them with armored personnel carriers.)
    Guess who? Stace of course, still in diapers.

  4. Porter Lansing 2019-05-06 12:58

    DENVER (CBS4) – Colorado Gov. Jared Polis signed a controversial gun control measure into law on Friday. The Red Flag law will allow authorities to take guns from people determined to pose a threat to themselves or others.
    *This law would have stopped Columbine High School mass shooting and Aurora Movie Theatre mass shooting as all the shooters were under surveillance. We also have restrictions on ammunition magazine size and gun purchases.
    PS … Stace Nelson only knows what the Marine Corps taught him about socialism and that knowledge was tailored to promote fear not understanding. His mail order college degree was little better. All in all he doesn’t know the difference between socialism and buying as a group to get a better price.

  5. Jenny 2019-05-06 21:23

    Oh, come on, you guys. I think Stace and Cory respect each other. Don’t be so hard on him, we’ll get him to see the light one of these days.

  6. Jenny 2019-05-06 21:30

    If a constituent is ‘harassing’ a public official I would think they would be able to block that constituent. bcb?

  7. Debbo 2019-05-06 22:06

    “Stace”??? What’s that about? Was a comment removed?

    My grad school pal, Nancy Nord Bence is the exec dir of Protect Minnesota, this state’s most active and hardest working gun safety nonprofit.

    Minnesota also has another very good one that might be the big sister to the SD group, Moms Demand Action.

    Minnesota has a split lege, Democratic House, GOP Senate, Democratic Governor. Protect and Moms are working very hard on 2 bills. 1 is the Red Flag law. 2 is universal background checks for all gun sales. (I think there are exceptions for within a family.) They’ve passed the House and Gov. Walz supports them, but Senate leader Gazelka, GOP, is trying to emulate his hero, the most despised man in the USA, Chinless Wonder McTurtle. He’s finally agreed to give them a hearing, but vowed not to pass them.

    GOP leadership are scum, whatever rock they’re under, in any state.

  8. Porter Lansing 2019-05-06 22:22

    Debbo … Click on the last paragraph where Cory talks about “socialism in Venezuela” If it’s not been deleted, it’s Stace Nelson lazer focused on solving the mass murder problem in USA.

  9. Debbo 2019-05-06 22:29

    I see. That is stupid of Nelson. Childish.

    Thanks Porter.

  10. Senator Stace Nelson (R-Fulton) 2019-05-06 23:24

    @Nick Nemec My personal Twitter account, my personal time, my free-speech. No legislator more approachable and who answers. If someone wants to abuse that with juvenile comments designed to disrespect and disrupt vice converse? Then I am happy to block such and I am well within my freedom of speech to do so. No one is entitled to my personal time. They meet the adage “play stupid games, win stupid prizes.” How do such juvenile fascist conduct of these people help honest Democrats like you? I would argue they greatly harm you. I look forward to Porter suing the state of SD though for being blocked 😉

    @Porter “Mass murder problem?” There are numerous things topping crazies like you who start murdering innocent people. In Venezuela right now, and across the world’s news? It’s your political ideology Socialism that people understand is the real threat to mankind. You are the poster child for military hating scumbags in the USA. You are such a coward that you would spit on us veterans if it was the 70’s again; however, that kind of conduct is considered assault in many jurisdictions and you know you would be bent into a pretzel and sent to jail by the first veteran you tried your Colorado cowardice on. The world is seeing the newest example of your damn Socialism, only “intellectuals” like you think that Socialism just hasn’t been done right yet after hundreds of millions have died as a result of it having been done right.

    @Debbo Like getting called ugly by a blob fish. Please, you folks continue to push gun control and Socialism as Venezuela implodes in terror at another scene in history of that evil freedom killing ideology unfolds with blood on the streets and adds to its hundreds of millions murdered body count. Even as Democrats here in the USA continue to push to subvert our Constitution with that ideology. I am sure that those two unAmerican policies will be real vote getters this next election.

    Conspicuously absent here, and which incited the responses to begin with? Where is the dialogue on the gun control and the carnage being caused as a result of another socialist state that was successful in disarming the people and jack booting itself across the freedoms of the people you claim it lifts up..

    Since there is nothing left but more of Porter’s low-brow personal attacks and other such frantic distractions of these immovable facts, feel free to carry on with out any further responses from yours truly. Been busy, rain ruined my getting caught up on life schedule and I caught this little gem. 🤣

  11. Porter Lansing 2019-05-07 00:04

    Good one, Stace Nelson. Feel better, son?
    Q – What’s the difference between socialism and buying as a group to get a better price?
    A – The first is what Communists do. The second is what Americans do.
    PS … wash your tractor 🚜

  12. Kurt Evans 2019-05-07 00:30

    Porter Lansing writes:

    Q – What’s the difference between socialism and buying as a group to get a better price?

    A – The first is imposed by government force and threats of force. The second is voluntary.

  13. cibvet 2019-05-07 00:49

    I see nelson is victimization by being a veteran. No doubt his military sacrifice was as a REMF.

  14. Porter Lansing 2019-05-07 02:32

    Evans is trying to put his selfish Libertarian spin on the beautiful thing that is buying as a group. Not everyone in the group has to be in favor of the purchase. The majority of members have to be in favor of the purchase. e.g. If most of the town wants a new park, all the tax payers of the town share the cost.
    Libertarians are selfish, want the benefits of being in the group but see their obligation as being forced to comply when they disagree.
    Several of the regular readers of DFP have come to this realization of what the core belief of Libertarianism really is. Quite simply, selfishness.

  15. Cory Allen Heidelberger Post author | 2019-05-07 07:09

    Nick, on blocking: a federal district court says no, that’s unconstitutional, but Trump is appealing that ruling in the Second Circuit. The Fourth Circuit in January ruled such blocking by public officials is unconstitutional.

    Now if we could just get back to blocking public officials from carrying guns in sacred public places like the Capitol, we’d all be much safer.

  16. bearcreekbat 2019-05-07 11:13

    Stace’s comment,

    the carnage being caused as a result of another socialist state that was successful in disarming the people

    seems to echo the idea that a civilian populace should be armed.

    It appears that the only reason to support arming civilians is to encourage the use of guns as weapons to kill any government workers, such as members of the military or police, who are tasked with enforcing public policies the civilian might find objectionable.

    Do I correctly understand the pro-gun philosophy? And if so, where does the killing stop?

    Logically, under such a philosophy it follows that there necessarily is a continuous cycle of violence during which every time an individual found himself in disagreement with those in power, he would be justified in using his guns to kill anyone seeking to enforce a disagreeable public policy.

  17. mike from iowa 2019-05-07 11:22

    2nd Circuit Court for New York is gonna come under fire if they don’t rule for Drumpf. Guaranteed.

  18. bearcreekbat 2019-05-07 11:37

    Porter’s analysis of libertarian philosophy as premised on selfishness seems quite accurate. Indeed, if I understand Ayn Rand’s objections to “altruism” correctly, any Rand style libertarians (are there any other types?) would readily declare proudly that they are motivated by pure and plain selfishness.

    As an example, selfishness is the sole factor supporting libertarian opposition to laws restricting gun possession and ownership. The libertarian idea is that individual personal preference (i.e., selfishness) outweighs known dangers to other people from lack of gun laws.

    I would be curious to read rational arguments, if any there be, that Porter and I are mistaken in concluding that selfishness is the foundation libertarian philosophy.

  19. bearcreekbat 2019-05-07 12:16

    Jenny, on the blocking issue I’m not sure I agree with the district court ruling linked by Cory, but I note that Trump’s blocking was not based on “harassment,” rather it was based on Trump’s disagreement with the content or ideas of the blocked comments. One problem with the ruling is that the Twitter account is a private company rather than any official government site, and as such Trump simply exercised his right to implement the private company rules on blocking. Had this been a government site, or premised on a government rule or law, then blocking would more likely be a violation of the 1st Amendment.

    As for actual harassment of a public official, that is awfully close to criminal conduct and for the most part falls outside 1st Amendment protection in my view.

  20. bearcreekbat 2019-05-07 12:24

    Porter, thanks for the interesting link arguing that the libertarian philosophy is not premised on selfishness. I have to leave for a while, but I will address several of the comments in that article later today or tomorrow.

  21. mike from iowa 2019-05-07 12:30

    Can Drumpf access Twitter from a personal device, ala HRC, since it has been reported regularly everyone in the kremlin annex is using them?

  22. o 2019-05-07 13:59

    Kurt, on libertarianism: what I can never shake is the failure of the claim that libertarianism is not selfish – that the social fabric of those less fortunate is important to libertarians – when played out in the real world. As taxes are reduced – the “theft” of your personal property – in both the US nationally and states like Kansas, social programs die. There is no move to fill financial gaps in need voluntarily. I have referenced the “Starve the Beast” ideology of Grover Norquist. As you and your article’s author claim that your politics still advocate helping the needs, I only see that NOT being the case in practice when tax burdens are lowered.

    If libertarians helped the needy, government would back off. Instead, your political philosophy causes a need then complains when government takes effort to fill that need.

  23. Kurt Evans 2019-05-07 14:42

    “o” writes:

    Kurt … As you and your article’s author claim that your politics still advocate helping the needs …

    I’m not sure what you’re identifying as my article, and it’s my Christian religion, not my politics, that advocates special help for the needy.

  24. o 2019-05-07 14:46

    Kurt, my apologies, Porter posted the article I incorrectly attributed as “your” article.

  25. Kurt Evans 2019-05-07 14:49

    Kurt, my apologies, Porter posted the article I incorrectly attributed as “your” article.

    No problem. Thanks for clarifying.

  26. Stace Nelson 2019-05-07 14:54

    @Porter “Son?!” Give what’s left of your THC cured gray matter a break. You weren’t man enough to father this child, a king amongst men was my daddy. But you keep fantasizing 😉
    @cibvet You’re a coward. 18 1/2 years overseas at the tip of the spear, clown. Stick to the gutters, it’s safe there.

    @CAH Claiming a part-time state legislator blocking disrespectful trolls (not from his district) on his personal social media accounts to be “unconstitutional?” is almost as ridiculous as claiming abortion is a “Constitutional right.” You would have to show my actions were official, which means you would have to sue the state of SD if you are claiming my acts were in fact official and not personal. You can’t get to unconstitutional and you know it. If it was as you and others claim? There would be lawsuits stacked up like cordwood whining their Constitutional rights to be jack-wagons were violated when I exercised my freedom of speech and wiped them off my feed line 😉

  27. o 2019-05-07 15:26

    Stace, what am I missing: I thought Supreme Court cases affirmed or denied Constitutional issues and rights. If Roe v Wade affirmed a right women have – why is that not a Constitutional Right? I though the whole thesis of the Supreme Court packing was because legislative (or executive) action cannot contradict a Constitutional right.

  28. Porter Lansing 2019-05-07 15:26

    L’il Nelly … Son is a term used to address someone younger with much to learn. Don’t provoke me or I’ll send you home crying Pinoy tears, like the last time. Remember? When you ran away and blocked me, R.E.M.F’er. I never touch that THC stuff but I hear you’re a big consumer of the kratom habit you brought home from the Phillipines, for your chronic pain.

  29. jerry 2019-05-07 16:24

    Hey tip of the spear guy, those socialists in Venezuela don’t seem to be scared. Maybe peace is a better way than meddling with other governments. We need to fix our own yards before we Insist the other guy’s lawn needs mowing. The outlaws in Washington have everything in order so it’s safe for you big feller.

    “Venezuela is ready to see off any attack from the United States, the country’s Foreign Minister Jorge Arreaza said on Monday in Moscow.

    “We are ready for all scenarios. The first is diplomacy, dialogue, peace,” Arreaza told a press conference after a meeting with his Russian counterpart Sergey Lavrov.

    But if Washington “opts for the military path, we have an armed force, a people, a national guard that will be able not just to resist and fight, but also to win,” he added.” We can’t win a drug war there so how in the hell we gonna win any other kind of war in the same area?

  30. Porter Lansing 2019-05-07 16:43

    Jerry … I just got a message from Washington that Pompeo is headed to the Middle East because Iran is set to attack our troops in Iraq. Stace’s lack of courage is his problem. Trump’s over a barrel now that Mueller’s going to testify in Congress and what do Republicans do, when scared? Start a war!!

  31. mike from iowa 2019-05-07 17:20

    Four B-52s are on their way to their way to the Middle East just in case another wingnut moron in the kremlin annex starts another easy to win war.

  32. Porter Lansing 2019-05-07 17:23

    If you can’t antagonize peaceful Muslims during Ramadan, what kind of a President are you? Hmmmmmm?

  33. Roger Cornelius 2019-05-07 17:33

    So, whatever happened to that crisis at the Mexican border?

  34. Porter Lansing 2019-05-07 17:37

    Thanks, Mike. That’s less than a couple miles from me.

  35. Porter Lansing 2019-05-07 17:45

    Two shooters taken into custody.

  36. mike from iowa 2019-05-07 17:55

    So, whatever happened to that crisis at the Mexican border? It is still in the kremlin annex dec laring it should get an extra 2 years of being king because investigations stole two years of Putie’s first term.

  37. mike from iowa 2019-05-07 17:57

    Drumpf’s crisis center is like Detroit and rolls out a new model crisis every now and then and gets wingnut base reactions.

  38. bearcreekbat 2019-05-07 18:03

    Libertarians are not complete anarchists. Libertarians support taxation for certain government activities, usually including military defense and whatever law enforcement and prison system is needed to deal with those among us that want to murder people.

    Thus, the claim that “taxation is simply a glorified form of theft” is disingenuous. What they really mean is that using tax dollars to support policies they might disagree with is “theft.” While everyone would like to see tax dollars used to support policies they support, only libertarian selfishness can rationalize calling taxation “theft” simply because tax revenue is used in a manner that doesn’t directly benefit an individual libertarian.

    As o points out, the idea that libertarians want to help anyone but themselves is contrary to their fundamental premise – government should use tax dollars only for the policies that libertarians like and any policy of using tax dollars to help others is an anathema to the libertarian philosophy.

    The article’s argument that welfare has not eliminated all poverty or doesn’t benefit people is nothing more than an argument against using tax dollars to fund a program libertarian’s oppose. Libertarians have not proposed a better or alternative means of using tax dollars to support the poor that might work better, hence the claim that they only oppose it because it doesn’t work is just as disingenuous as the theft claims.

    The linked article references a lack of hatred as evidence that libertarians are not selfish, but hate is not really evidence of selfishness; envy maybe, but not hate. The most generous among us are fully capable of experiencing hate.

    The argument that charity is an appropriate substitute for using tax dollars rings hollow. While the article recognizes

    If government could eliminate poverty, it would have done so by now. History has yet to show us a case where the redistribution of wealth has brought people out of poverty on a permanent basis.

    The article simply avoids the corresponding truth that

    If charity could eliminate poverty, it would have done so by now. History has yet to show us a case where the charitable redistribution of wealth has brought people out of poverty on a permanent basis.

    Finally, I note the while article acknowledges that

    Altruism comes from the hand that voluntarily extends to those that need the help,

    it fails to mention the Ayn Rand libertarian view that:

    As to altruism — it has never been alive. It is the poison of death in the blood of Western civilization, and men survived it only to the extent to which they neither believed nor practiced it.

  39. Porter Lansing 2019-05-07 18:03

    Just to keep on topic … neither of the students who were shooters were under treatment or surveillance before the incident, today. The new CO Red Flag Law would have been no assistance.
    Aside: My daughter was in class nearby at the Columbine shooting and the cops respond a whole lot quicker and with sharper focus these days.

  40. Porter Lansing 2019-05-07 18:12

    Well analyzed, BCB. Bravo!! Nothing to add except the small irony that Ayn Rand finished her life accepting Social Security and Medicare in America.

  41. Porter Lansing 2019-05-07 18:16

    Maybe one observation. The Libertarians I know are semi-outcasts in society. They grasp on the Libertarian model as something, somewhere, anywhere that they can feel part of a group. Isn’t that an irony in itself.

  42. jerry 2019-05-08 02:44

    Pompous is heading to the Mid East because of a new restaurant opening. Iran has got us right where they want us, spending a fortune running up gas prices domestically. BTW, gas prices in Rapid City are $1.00 higher a gallon than they were just 2 months ago. Republican leadership is expensive but great for oil producing nations like Saudi Arabia and Russia.

  43. Kurt Evans 2019-05-08 23:58

    Porter Lansing writes:

    Evans is trying to put his selfish Libertarian spin on the beautiful thing that is buying as a group.

    All I’d said about buying as a group is that it’s voluntary, whereas socialism is imposed by government force and threats of force.

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