Clinton Rises as Trump Further Disqualifies Self with Jail Threat, San Bernadino Lie, Pence Diss

I wondered for a moment if Hillary Clinton had made an error in stagecraft in declining to approach Donald Trump and shake his hand at the beginning of last night’s Presidential debate. After all, as a friend noted to me, as President, her job will include having to shake hands with much worse foreign leaders to grease diplomacy.

But I’ll back Clinton’s willingness to reject Trump’s hand just as I will back Dennis Daugaard’s willingness to reject Trump’s nomination. I’m only surprised that she allowed Trump to shake her hand (and grab her elbow—one more male-domination move) after the new disqualifying remarks Trump made in stubborn defiance of Clinton’s straightforward, fact-based, Presidential performance.

  1. Trump said to Clinton that, if elected, he will order his Attorney General “to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation.” In a later interruption, he told her that if he were in charge, “you’d be in jail.” Former Attorney General Eric Holder likened that dangerous promise to Richard Nixon’s post-Watergate actions and said, “In the USA we do not threaten to jail political opponents.”
  2. Asked by a Muslim woman to address what he will do to help American Muslims “deal with the consequences of being labeled as a threat to the country,” Trump talked past her to the camera (as he did on all audience questions) and blamed Muslims for not reporting suspicious activity to help fight “radical Islamic terrorism.” Trump said many people (and the implication was, many Muslims) “saw the bombs all over the apartment” of the San Bernadino shooters, a claim for which there is no evidence. Trump this responded to a question about Islamophobia by stoking Islamophobia with another false accusation.
  3. Asked about intervening in Syria and Aleppo, Trump rambled incoherently toward what sounded like a refusal to intervene militarily (despite his complaint that the U.S. has “weak foreign policy”) and to let Assad, Russia, and Iran have a free hand in Syria because they are “killing ISIS” (which is false). Moderator Martha Raddatz reminded Trump that Mike Pence, in the Vice-Presidential debate five days earlier, said the U.S. should “immediately establish safe zones,” meet “the provocations by Russia… with American strength,” and “use military force to strike military targets of the Assad regime” to relieve the besieged city of Aleppo. Of his running mate’s Syria statement, Trump said, “He and I haven’t spoken, and I disagree.” Wait: five days go by, and Trump walks into his next Presidential debate without having discussed with Pence what the press immediately recognized as a major policy disagreement? Instead, Trump goes on live national TV and cuts the legs out from under his running mate? Never mind getting Trump to withdraw; Mike Pence shouldn’t have to stick around for that kind of abuse.

Trump asked in his Syria ramble, “How stupid is our country?” Not stupid enough, we can hope, to elect a tinpot dictator who threatens to jail his opponent, blames Muslims for the stereotypes he perpetuates, and ignores his running mate’s advice in favor his love for fellow tyrants. We don’t shake the hand of a beast who says such stupid things. We definitely don’t let that hand lie on the Chief Justice’s Bible on January 20, or on the nuclear codes moments afterward.

185 Responses to Clinton Rises as Trump Further Disqualifies Self with Jail Threat, San Bernadino Lie, Pence Diss

  1. Nice job addressing the email discussion. It is when HRC put Trump back in the race with an assist by Martha Radditch.

  2. I thought the debate was actually a tie. Yes, Clinton had more facts correct. Yes, Trump sidestepped a lot of questions without answering them. Yes, Trump interrupted Clinton rudely – again. But he held his own. He landed some punches, as did Clinton. Probably nobody is going to change their minds – except those GOP party officeholders who haven’t abandoned Trump yet but were thinking about it. He stopped the bleeding. Everybody (who didn’t already) now knows that Trump doesn’t respect women and wants to put them in their place. So put that one on the shelf with all the other things that make Trump totally unfit to be President. Put some more bracing under the shelf too. The campaign will now move on to other things, and Trump will continue lying and insulting his way to defeat. Less than a month to go!

  3. Darin Larson

    Trump’s disgusting excuse for his vile comments on women that it was just “locker room talk” is ridiculous. I have been in plenty of locker rooms in my life and I have never heard anything approaching what this man said. The guy is so used to be the unquestioned king of his castle that he thinks women are put on this earth for his pleasure and dominance. He is a sicko of the first order and the narcissism that dominates his psyche is carried over into his relationships with women and how he views women.

    I cannot understand how anyone with a shred of dignity would still support Trump, especially anyone purporting to be an evangelical Christian. I don’t think Trump has any idea what being a Christian is all about and his conduct is usually the exact opposite of the answer to the question of What Would Jesus Do?

  4. As goes Ohio, so goes the nation. Ohio has moved into HRC territory. Florida is holding steady with HRC also, same with Colorado, No Carolina and Nevada. I call a landslide for election day.
    Maybe Trump never wanted to be president and just wanted to make money off of his run like a bestselling book, who knows.

  5. Darin Larson

    I was glad that HRC didn’t shake his hand at the beginning of the debate and I would have preferred she not shake his hand at the end of the debate. He is a vile human being who deserves pariah status. A guy who just threatened to jail HRC to further his own political ambitions like some tin-horn dictator doesn’t deserve to be shown respect–only disdain.

  6. Donald Pay

    Complete implosion by Trump–pointing fingers at Hillary every few minutes in a threatening way, pacing like a lion in a cage, stalking Clinton, and sniffing like a coke fiend. The hate he exhibited throughout for everyone, especially anyone who stands up to him, was palpable. He was a seething maniac. His threatening to put Hillary in jail is right in line with his Putin-worship. The guy should be in an insane asylum, not in the White House.

    Locker room talk? Yeah, I have been in male locker rooms, but apparently not in the upper class ones Trump inhabits. I’ve never heard that kind of talk at the Y, or any of the fitness clubs I’ve been in. I’ve heard similar talk only in dive bars by half-potted losers, and that’s where you’ll be able to find Trump on November 9.

  7. Darin Larson

    Mr. Pay, I noted what you observed and I was wondering if the secret service was going to have to step in between them. Trump was clearly trying to intimidate HRC like the insecure bully that he is. She ignored it and stuck to answering the questions with poise and mastery of the issues.

    The snorting and sniffling by Trump was distracting. His rambling answers that amounted to saying everything sucks and he will fix everything were almost incoherent. He really has no interest in policy and cares not a whit to learn it.

  8. Darin Larson

    Reported on CNN: one in four Republicans now believe that Trump should not be president. It should be higher given who Trump is, but it is unprecedented less than 30 days before the election.

  9. mike from iowa

    CNN reported last night Pence was trying to bail on Drumpf.

    This Drumpf advisor must be bucking for cabinet slot as Secretary of Hating Everyone Because….

  10. mike from iowa

    This is Hillarious-

    Re Trump and the GOP and their current relationship, I think it’s time to revisit this classic:

    The Famous Pig Song
    (Clarke Van Ness, music by F. Henri Klickmann)

    ‘Twas an evening in October, I’ll confess I wasn’t sober,
    I was carting home a load with manly pride,
    When my feet began to stutter and I fell into the gutter,
    And a pig came up and lay down by my side.
    Then I lay there in the gutter and my heart was all a-flutter,
    Till a lady, passing by, did chance to say:
    “You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses,”
    Then the pig got up and slowly walked away.

    Walked away, walked away,
    He was really too particular to stay.
    “You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses,”
    Then the pig got up and slowly walked away.

    Though I think the GOP is sprinting at this point.

  11. And yet Trump will still easily win South Dakota. That just goes to show you that party loyalty runs far ahead of logic.

    I can understand a Republican not wanting to support Clinton as that makes sense. But Trump is as much of a Republican as Clinton is. This is a man who has had three wives, has filed bankruptcy six times, has admitted not paying income tax in nearly 20 years, has resorted to cheap imported materials for his brand, has mistreated minorities and women, and who is more than happy to switch his stance on an issue if he feels it will earn him a vote.

    Imagine if a woman or a minority had the same characteristics and how the GOP would be attacking it at every turn.

    Newsflash Republicans – you don’t have to support Clinton, but if you support Trump it merely proves you don’t care about our country or our citizens… you merely care about your “team”.

  12. A dictatorship under Trump was avoided perhaps. It still makes me cringe to think that given all the knowledge that our republican elected officials had of Trump, they will still vote for him or already have. They are as enslaved to him as he is to his sniff. There was really no need to fact check Trump, as with all coke snorters, they have lost all sense of reality. The war on drugs had a face last night that proves once and for all its failure.

  13. Paul Ryan may..just may, revoke his endorsement of Trump. See that is where the rubber meets the road. Our clowns here have bitched and moaned about Trump, but as far as I can see, they still are endorsing him. So they have really done nothing whatsoever except to pull the wool over our eyes. What a crude bunch of sheepherders (no offense to real sheep producers), our elected officials are the problems to all our problems here.

  14. Well we could have had a good decent man named Bernie but the HRC forces were never going to let that happen.
    Sorriest election ever and I have never seen so few presidential signs on either side. I think I’ve seen two HRC signs and just one for Trump in my town of over 100,000 people.

  15. We do have a good decent man named Bernie Sanders still viable in the race. He is now supporting Hillary Clinton as I am. One thing that should be noticed about how blues and those that like to think they are is this, we have a tendency of wanting purity. When that does not happen in our judgement, we stomp our feet and sit on the couch complaining about what we got. Bernie is a good man that would have made a great president, but now he will still be a good man in the senate getting the points across that he was working on. That is if blues will stop pouting long enough to do some good. Yard signs mean nothing, boots on the ground mean everything.

  16. 1. I agree with Ror: this was a push, essentially. What’s maddening about that fact is that there is clearly a curve here. So long as Trump doesn’t defecate directly into the mouth of a moderator, he’ll appear reserved. He lies. Constantly. But it just doesn’t matter.

    2. Clinton flubbed a couple questions. The wikileaks question about her speeches almost seemed to catch her off guard, which surprised the hell out of me. Her answer was awkward and non-responsive, which is usually Donald’s gig. The fact she does it so rarely made the miss stand out even more.

    3. The final question, while inconsequential in the grand scheme of things, really gave her a chance to appear more “approachable,” which is a common critique. Her response made her come across as petty.

    I still can’t get over him threatening to jail her and the special prosecutor thing. The FBI already investigated the email situation. She’s been investigated on Benghazi, what, 7 times? This is a dude clearly attempting to strong arm a political opponent. And yet, I still say tie.

    We’re through the looking glass here, folks.

  17. Jenny, here in Aberdeen, I’ve seen two HRC signs. Gary Johnson signs are competing with Trump signs.

  18. Jenny: “I have never seen so few presidential signs on either side.”

    Come to think of it – you’re right. I have only seen a couple of the actual candidates signs in yards – a few from each side. I have also seen a couple of homemade Trump signs in windows as well… but far from what I have seen in years past. The number of Romney and Obama signs I saw the last time was exponentially greater than what I’ve seen this time.

    I can somewhat understand it though – why would the candidates spend campaign cash in South Dakota when the conclusion is predetermined? Plus, if we are honest – a lot of voters may vote for their candidate behind the curtain, but they are too ashamed to put their support on display.

  19. Don Coyote

    Trump only showed how much of a political neophyte he is by promising to investigate Hillary if elected President. FDR used the IRS to harass and intimidate his political opponents, as did JFK, Nixon, Clinton and Obama. Remember, revenge is a dish best served cold.

  20. mike from iowa

    CSM says Coolidge, FDR, Nixon, Kennedy, Clinton and dumbass dubya used the IRS to harass enemies.

  21. The IRS and the DOJ are two separate entities Coyote. Can you show where, outside of Nixon. any of these used the DOJ to go after there political opponent in the race for the White House…

    How did the harassment work against political enemies, were they audited?

  22. bearcreekbat

    Craig, until recently I also thought that SD would go for Trump by double digits. But now I am beginning to wonder. I know many conservatives and not one supports sexual assault talk, not one. And the fact that Daugaard and Thune now say Trump should not be President seems a strong indicator that they have doubts about whether SD will support Trump. I am going to go out on a limb here and say that absent some major screw up by Hillary in the next month, SD is going to reject Trump and Hillary will win our 3 electoral votes.

  23. If I could imagine going back to that day in June of 1876, I think what I saw last night was the arrogance of Custer projected unto Trump when he realized that the he was not going back to Fort Lincoln. Happy Native American Day, may your day be filled.

  24. bcb you must have more moderate conservatives in your circle, because what I have witnessed thus far consists of many excuses. In the past 48 hours I’ve seen many comments from my conservative associates, relatives, and friends which can be boiled down to one of two basic premises… number one, that anything Donald Trump has said isn’t as bad as what Bill Clinton has done, and number two, that Trump’s comments are just locker room speak which is quite normal for many men.

    To the first point I counter that Bill Clinton isn’t running for office, and the things he has been accused of doing are just that… accusations. Say what you will about Monica Lewinsky, but it was very much a consensual relationship. If we are going to consider accusations then by default we must also consider that Trump is accused not only of raping his former wife, but that he has also raped a 13 year old girl (that case is currently working its way through the court system although you wouldn’t know it from our MSM).

    To the second point, it is true that many men engage in that type of locker room speak. However that doesn’t make it ok, and at the very least we should expect better from the person we place in the highest office of the land. It speaks to character and to the type of person he is. If someone believes they could do whatever they want and take advantage of women with no repercussions, it suggests they don’t value those people as humans but merely as tools.

    Anyway my point is I still see a lot of people making excuses and it is clear they will still support Trump regardless. Some of these people think like him and although they won’t admit it in public, they have no qualms about voting for him in private. I still see South Dakota going to Trump quite easily but I’d be happy to be wrong. At least that could give me hope that most of our state’s citizens aren’t (mentally) living in the dark ages.

  25. I think if Bill Clinton was running today, social media would have destroyed him. Really, Bill Clinton and Donald Trump are a lot alike. They’re both horny ol’ bastards that should have been neutered years ago.

  26. I bust my chops trying to offer some links and analysis, while Pat Powers rolls out of bed and writes three non-analytical sentences about the debate, with one measly link to the conservative Powerline blog saying Trump won. Pfft.

  27. bearcreekbat

    Craig, unfortunately after i posted my prediction a relative of mine linked a you tube apologist video for Trump that made me want to puke. Thus, you are right that Trump still has supporters. But many South Dakotans are “Republican supporters,” not Trump supporters. So when our Republican Governor and senior Republican Senator dismiss Trump, this has to raise some eyebrows. I stand by my prediction, and will claim to be the first to accurately predict the outcome in SD if I happen to be right.

    By the way, my last election prediction about what Obama would get done if elected President failed. I thought he would accomplish the closing of Gitmo. I was naive, as I didn’t anticipate a republican House denying him the funding needed to close it.

  28. “To the second point, it is true that many men engage in that type of locker room speak.”

    No, many men do not. Locker room talk is stuff like “That girl is so hot, what I wouldn’t give…” or “I’m such a player, I got with three women AT THE SAME TIME look at me!” Things like “I grab women’s genitals whether they like it or not” is rape speech, and it’s not normal.

    What the hell locker rooms do some of you change in?

  29. Douglas Wiken

    Of course, Trump’s problems are all Obama’s fault, just like Republicans voting to allow citizens to sue Saudi Arabia was all Obama’s fault. Next they will blame him for Iraq suing the US for the Bush war. Logic has nothing to do with SD Republicans. Rounds discusses failure to produce a congressional budget for years without mentioning the GOP majority or minority blocking everything positive.

  30. Dicta – first of all you’re naïve if you don’t believe there are many men who feel the same way Trump does or talk the same way Trump talks. They exist, they are everywhere at all levels of society, and they are a primary reason women are still not treated as equals to men in many areas.

    To admit there are those types of men out there does not mean a person is ok with what they are saying. It is merely admitting it exists – and although I haven’t heard the exact phrasing that Trump chose in my first hand encounters, I have heard similar statements from the type of men who feel women are inferior or are to be treated as possessions. That these people exist doesn’t surprise me, but that one has managed to earn the nomination of a major political party does.

    BTW – when people say “locker room talk” I’m sure you understand they aren’t referring to a literal locker room. It is merely a phrase used as an attempt to deflect by saying the words spoken between men in private are less important than those spoke in public, in a board room, in a classroom or elsewhere. What a man says in private or to another man shouldn’t be treated as less important obviously – but again there are things said in such circles that are rarely said elsewhere. Trump and his supporters are trying to claim such banter doesn’t matter because of the context, but I dare say most would disagree. Say it in public, say it in a locker room, or say it in your kitchen… it doesn’t really matter where because what does matter is the mindset of the person saying it.

  31. I’ve been in the sort of areas this stuff is largely expected: military, actual athletic locker rooms, etc. Usually the bragging is about how alpha the person bragging is, how they could impregnate a woman with a wink, how many women they’ve slept with and the varied ways they did it. But bragging about literally assaulting someone wasn’t a thing. The fact that he attempts to normalize it in such a way bothers me. I guess I’ll take the naïve label.

  32. “The fact that he attempts to normalize it in such a way bothers me.”

    As it should. It isn’t normal behavior – quite the contrary. However this mentality does exist in more people than I’d like to admit. This is why we continue to have a major problem with sexual assaults on college campuses and why we see this type of mentality at work in Fortune 500 companies. Most people aren’t probably quite as crass and open about it as Trump, but there is obviously a group out there which thinks this way even if they don’t openly admit it.

    Granted even for those that don’t talk this way – by refusing to distance themselves from Trump aren’t they essentially endorsing his behavior? Kristi Noem has yet to pull her support for Trump thus I can only imagine she isn’t really bothered by his comments. She is a woman and a mother yet the idea of her party’s nominee assaulting someone doesn’t phase her. Amazing.

  33. Richard Schriever

    Sounds more like jail-house talk than locker room talk to me.

  34. Roger Cornelius

    To be clear, Trump made his crude comments while getting off a bus in a public location with video and microphones on, it was not a locker room
    Trump needs to be reminded that the White House is not a locker room and by voting for Hillary it won’t be.
    Over the Powers Dump Site Troy Jones made it quite clear that he was supporting and voting for a sexual predator. Way to go Troy.
    And one last thing, I heard today that even Putin has cancelled all further campaign appearances with Donald Trump.

  35. Darin Larson

    I love all the Trump apologists referencing this conduct as 11 years old as if it is ancient history. Of course, Trump at the same time is bringing up allegations against Bill Clinton more than 35 years old.

  36. What?!? Bill Clinton has been molesting women for more than 35 years??? This is why I encourage everybody everywhere to vote NO on Everything.
    The bumper stickers are being printed I am sure.

  37. Roger Cornelius


    Repeat after me, very slowly, “Bill Clinton is not running for the presidency”.
    Now repeat it until understand.

  38. Roger Cornelius

    Way to go Darin, Excellent Point!!!

  39. Darin Larson

    Grudz– Trump doesn’t know the meaning of NO. Haven’t you been watching the news?

    You can’t tell Donald Trump No on everything. To him, it’s Yes on everything. He is a star in his own mind and thinks he can get away with whatever he wants to do–which is usually disgusting and demeaning.

  40. Don Coyote

    I believe all of Bill’s sexual peccadilloes are relevant. Let there be no doubt, Bill Clinton won’t be picking out drape colors, china patterns or floral arrangements for State dinners if Hillary is elected. He will have a prominent position within the West Wing such as “special advisor to the President”. Or as Bubba was wont to say, “you get two for the price of one”. I doubt there’ll be much pillow talk though.

  41. Darin Larson

    Trump says if they expose him saying any more “inappropriate things” that he will really go after Bill and Hillary Clinton. I think Trump has been exposing himself as a disgusting human being for much of his life.

    What is Trump going to do to go lower than he already has? He just paraded out the Clinton accusers before the debate. Now maybe he can bring out Monica’s blue dress at the next debate? Or he could describe the locker-room talk that he and Bill would share during their golf outings?

  42. In your mind Coyote, in your mind. Your kind get all warm and flush at the thought of such things. Either get a girl friend, flower or pet. You are sounding like a one of the boys from sexually repressed countries..Oh wait, you are here. Good news though. With the now released tape of Crooked Donald, we can all say sexual words that are acceptable even with church goers . So you can utter the word in mixed company and giggle and hunch your shoulders, lucky you.

  43. Bill learned his lesson, you can tell by that look that we all get when we finally tame down with no more broncs to ride, dances without worrying about your old girlfriends new boyfriend, you know, life in the fast lane. With coked out Crooked Donald, all you get is sniffs from a fat ass rich guy who thinks he is good looking.
    Bill has aged out and will do a fine job as an ambassador to some of the things that matter most in this country, like all of its people, all of them. Sniffing Crooked Donald, would only try to relax his dealers access to him. Anyone who thinks that is an allergy, go talk to a rehab counselor.

  44. Hey, Coyote—interesting that Trump tells us that his foreign policy brilliance lies in not telling the enemy what he’s going to do… and then last night, he telegraphs to his enemy Hillary Clinton that he’ll take her out with a special prosecutor. Which is it, Donald? Surprise the enemy, or broadcast your plan to score ratings?

  45. Jenny, Bill and Donald may have some horndog similarities, but Bill also happens to be a true policy wonk and scholar. Bill’s brains do not excuse his dude-sluttiness any more than Donald’s wealth, but his brains do distinguish him from the GOP nominee.

    I also saw a third Hillary sign in town today. I don’t think that HRC sign was in that yard on Saturday. Momentum?

  46. For the record, I don’t think I have spoken of women in Donald’s terms in a locker room or anywhere else to any other men.

  47. happy camper

    Hillary has no integrity. From AP article: In private paid speeches to financial firms and interest groups before she declared her candidacy, the Democratic presidential nominee comes off as a knowing insider, willing to cut backroom deals, embrace open trade and grant Wall Street a central role in crafting financial regulations, according to excerpts obtained last week through hacked campaign emails provided to WikiLeaks.

    “Politics is like sausage being made,” she said. “It is unsavory, and it always has been that way, but we usually end up where we need to be. But if everybody’s watching, you know, all of the backroom discussions and the deals, you know, then people get a little nervous, to say the least. So, you need both a public and a private position.”

  48. mike from iowa

    In private paid speeches to financial firms and interest groups BEFORE she declared her candidacy,

    HC-you should know it is a woman’s prerogative to change her mind a million times. Not a lack of integrity.

  49. Hap, we all say things in private that we don’t say in public. Perhaps more to the point, we can have private positions that differ from our public positions.

    For instance, in her private life, a woman may never choose to have an abortion. She may think it is wrong to have an abortion purely to end a perfectly healthy but inconvenient pregnancy. But she may still take the public position that it is not her place as a legislator or governor to pass laws forbidding all women from having abortions.

    What matters is how the candidate/elected official translates her private positions in public policy. We can see the policy being proposed, and we can see the policy that will be enacted. If proposals and enactments don’t square, we can raise holy heck, dig in our heels on other legislation, revolt in the mid-term elections, throw out the President after one term.

    Clinton’s statement about practical politics (and I’m actually thinking her Lincoln comment, related to ending slavery, has merit) does not disqualify her from the Presidency any more than it disqualifies every preceding President who held the same view. Trump’s statements outlined above do disqualify him from the Presidency.

  50. Darin Larson

    Happy Camper– that is shocking that politicians don’t tell us everything they are thinking. I’m shocked I tell you.

  51. happy camper

    But Cory don’t give her a pass. Along those lines Trump thought his conversation with Bush was private. She’s stating things completely against your policy positions: letting Wall Street craft legislation. The article is powerful so I didn’t want to contaminate it with my words, but they all stink! Trump, Bill, Hillary, even Chelsea from what I’ve read, and Hillary turns out worked hard with help from media to get Trump as the nominee because their camp believed everyone else would beat her. That’s not democracy. I suppose now I’ll have to find that link. At this level they’re all dirty rotten stanks Hillary and Trump are cut from the same cloth.

  52. Here is something that is being talked about in public.
    Think of this, with complete support of the South Dakota federal elected officials, full support for a man who is compromised by one of our nations biggest threats. NOem has come out and not only is for full support of a Putin puppet, but will continue and even vote for the treasonous turd. Talk about lies as much as you will, here is the truth that is being conveniently ignored by our congressional officials right here in a state that houses an essential part of our arsenal for defense. Who is kidding who? So is Trump a commie, I dunno, he certainly is compromised by the money. Do we really want that? Do we really want those who support him to continue to be our voice? By voting for NOem and Thune, voters are saying nyet to democracy.

  53. Darin Larson

    When you think about it, we probably don’t to hear everything that Trump thinks about. In public, he is merely a narcissistic, xenophobic, misogynistic, race baiting imbecile. In private, he is a vulgar sicko with no regard for the sanctity of marriage who brags about his penchant for sexual assault and the fact that he can get away with it because he thinks he is an entitled star.

    It is as if the party of family values has chosen their lecherous drunk uncle to go represent the family at public functions.

  54. happy camper

    The difference Trump is less fake we know he’s a jerk doesn’t mean the Clintons aren’t also dirty. Didn’t recognize these two sources so they need scrutiny although they came up on Yahoo home page. Hillary may be a little better but at least admit you’re supporting a very flawed candiate. More may come out from Wikileaks:

    WikiLeaks Reveals DNC Elevated Trump to Help Clinton

    WikiLeaks: Bill and Chelsea Clinton’s ‘Office Crap’ Almost Drove Clinton Foundation Official to Suicide

  55. WikiLeaks has been comprimised by the Russians. Here are the facts as reported with the linky

    Complain as you will about Hillary Clinton or face the facts of how treason works. Pretty simple stuff if you care to read about it and how it is proven. Or you can be like NOem and Thune, willing participants in the con. These two are in the federal government. Thune is the number 3 man in leadership of the republican party, he is privy to all of this and yet he cares only for this republican party as it trumps the democracy of all the people. NOem gets briefed as well, although her position is not as well placed as Thune, she knows the score as well.

  56. Hillary is a flawed candidate. If it were her and Romney, her and Huntsman, her and Jeb, or any myriad of other candidates, she would not have my vote. But they aren’t the noms. Trump is. And as much as I am not a fan of hers and her tendency to blow with the political winds, she is a much, MUCH better candidate than a narcissistic sociopath who can’t keep his trap shut, has the temperament of a wounded animal and a trash business record. The fact that people like Troy Jones, who I usually find to be considered in his opinions, support this guy is utterly flabbergasting.

  57. We are all flawed in many ways Dicta. Here is an endorsement for Hillary Clinton from Glenn Beck, yeah, that Glenn Beck “It is not acceptable to ask a moral, dignified man to cast his vote to help elect an immoral man who is absent decency or dignity,” Beck wrote in a Facebook post Saturday. “If the consequence of standing against Trump and for principles is indeed the election of Hillary Clinton, so be it. At least it is a moral, ethical choice.”

    Those that stand with Trump are a menace to what we got right in America, indeed,morals and ethics. You will not find that in Trump nor his base supporters. One really has to question their stance on what their belief is of what is right and just. How can NOem, Thune, Rounds the rest of these folks find support in such a clearly dishonest dangerous man. How can they support a voice such as his that wants to build walls like the Russians did in Germany to separate us rather than unite us? What kind of treachery do these folks subscribe too?

  58. happy camper

    But Jerry you and Cory didn’t like Hillary. You can’t say all Trump supporters are bad people they see some really bad things in Hillary. I’m still gonna vote for her but I think it’s better we know who she is rather than pat her on the back cause she’s part of the home team. It would be more healthy if we all thought of ourselves as independent voters. Hillary will likely win but that doesn’t mean you should let your guard down and trust her.

  59. mike from iowa

    Kremlin is writing Drumpf’s talking points.

    How about some ties to the mob? Long read from Politico.

  60. mike from iowa

    This election isn’t about which candidate is the better boy scout. This is about the future and direction we set for our children and their children. Drumpf and wingnuts want to take America back to where the wealthy owned the government and controlled all purse strings.

    Clinton will surely follow Obama and progress this country civilly and inclusively for the majority. Wingnuts don’t like being civil or inclusive. Too freakin’ bad.

  61. “We are all flawed in many ways Dicta.”

    I agreed. Anyone who has ever dated me will nod their head so hard at that statement they risk neck injuries. As always, voting is a balancing process. You measure the flaws against the strengths and vote for the one who does better in your eyes. Clinton beats the piss out of Trump in my eyes. The fact that some are so beholden to him makes me sad.

  62. I make no secret of my preference for Bernie over Hillary, for that you are correct. That train left the station with Hillary at the throttle with Bernie stoking the engine. His support of Hillary Clinton is my support for Hillary Clinton. On the contrary, I can and do say that Trump supporters are bad people because of what they support. This is not democracy they support, it is fascism at its ugliest. The hatred of women, the hatred of minorities and those who are different than what they perceive as pure, makes them horrible. They do not even try to compromise, it is hate, pure hate.

    The United States is my home team happy camper. As an Independent voter, I take a hard look at candidates and go for the ones that will make this place a place for all.

  63. bearcreekbat

    Seeing that Noem has publicly declared that she will vote for Trump (I forget – did she also support Ted Klaudt after he got caught abusing girls since he towed the party line and voted as the party wanted him to?), one has to speculate about her rationale. Publicly Noem says her vote is because Trump will support Republican proposals and legislation. In other words, party above women’s safety, integrity and morality.

    On the other hand Trump has now come out and publicly stated he will harm any Republicans who do not support him. It seems understandable that Noem, a woman, would fear what Trump might do to her if she is deemed uncooperative. He has said that he will direct a special prosecutor to investigate his political opponent Hillary. I wonder if Noem fears being targeted by a Trump special prosecutor if she says something he doesn’t like?

    As for our other Republican Trump supporters, did they also support Klaudt after learning about Klaudt’s alleged sexual abuse of teen age girls? If not, can anyone please explain the difference between Klaudt who was charged with sexually abusing teenagers and Trump who has also been charged with sexually abusing teenagers? Klaudt allegedly lied and tricked his victims into allowing him to examine their private parts. Trump allegedly tied his victim to a bed and violently raped her (and, of course told Bush he can grab women’s genitals)

    According to the Plaintiff in the pending Trump rape case,

    Defendant Trump had sexual contact with me at four different parties in the summer of 1994. On the fourth and final sexual encounter with Defendant Trump, Defendant Trump tied me to a bed, exposed himself to me, and then proceeded to forcibly rape me. During the course of this savage sexual attack, I loudly pleaded with Defendant Trump to stop but he did not. Defendant Trump responded to my pleas by violently striking me in the face with his open hand and screaming that he would do whatever he wanted.

    Immediately following this rape, Defendant Trump threatened me that, were I ever to reveal any of the details of Defendant Trump’s sexual and physical abuse of me, my family and I wold be physically harmed if not killed.

    There is a video of her statement at the link. And all this was publicly known before Trump’s admission on camera to sexually assaulting women. Incidentally, the statement to Bush as well as the many other comments he has made publicly about exploiting women (see the Howard Stern tapes) will likely be admissible in the rape case if it goes to trial to show Trump’s proclivities and propensity to commit unwanted advances toward women. This type of evidence has a profound effect on jurors.

  64. bcb – I have no idea if the allegations against Mr. Trump are accurate. However what I find interesting is how so many on the right are quick to point out the accusations against Bill Clinton (who isn’t running for office) and they just assume they must be true. They are bringing up accusations that are 20-30 years old and claiming they somehow make his wife unfit to lead yet these same people ignore accusations against Trump.

    We have even seen the media reporting about Bill Clinton and some of these accusations, yet Trump’s story about raping a teenager hasn’t received any press time. It hasn’t been brought up in debates, Hilary Clinton hasn’t mentioned it a single time, CNN, Fox News, ABC, CBS, NBC etc. haven’t discussed it at all that I recall seeing or hearing.

    Is this the “liberal media” we keep hearing about?

    I think this just goes to show which side likes to hang out in the gutter rather than relying upon facts and claims supported by evidence.

  65. Kristi Noem has pronounced herself a yellow dog Republican. She would vote for a yellow dog before she would vote for a Democrat. This election she will. Noem knows that Trump will lose. She knows that long before 2018 Trump will be old news and people will have moved on from this election. She is counting on being able to say that she is a good team player, and she was never a GOP party enabler who helped Hillary Clinton become President. The GOP party recriminations are coming after this election, folks. When the freedom caucus ousts Paul Ryan, Kristi will be gunning for a leadership post. Speaker Noem? Seems pretty remote now, but she’ll try to shuffle her way up the ladder as far as she can go.

  66. Roger Cornelius

    The importance of the Howard Stern audio hasn’t caught the publics attention in the way it should have and perhaps is more crucial than the Trump/Bush video tape.
    In that audio with Stern, Trump tells Stern it is okay to call his daughter “a piece of ass” and reveals that she hasn’t had breast implants. He tells Stern that his daughter is beautiful, which is fair enough what father thinks of his daughter, but in the same sentence calls her “very voluptuous”.
    Who in the hell talks about their daughter in their daughter in this manner? Donald Trump does.
    Flashback to Trump and his daughter dancing on stage at the republican convention with his hands on her hips.

  67. Let’s say the Hillary campaign completely collapses while all of the undecided voters all develop amnesia about everything Trump has said – and he gets what appears to be a majority of electoral votes (270 or more). The electoral college gathers, but several GOP party electors vote for somebody other than Trump. Nobody gets a majority, so the race goes to the GOP party controlled US House where they can choose from the top 3 vote getters. President Gary Johnson! Then the US Senate gets to choose the VP from the top 2 vote getters. Vice President Mike Pence! Trump could sue all he wants, but he couldn’t win such a suit.

    Hillary is very, very likely to win outright in November. If Trump wins, I believe that Gary Johnson has a better chance of being President than Trump does.

  68. mike from iowa

    Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
    Despite winning the second debate in a landslide (every poll), it is hard to do well when Paul Ryan and others give zero support!
    7:16 AM – 11 Oct 2016

    Someone needs to send the whitecoats for this insane nutter.

  69. bearcreekbat

    Today I decided to register for PACER, a federal program that allows for a nominal fee the public access to most documents filed in civil and criminal cases in all United States Courts. Sure enough I was able to find the rape case in New York. For those interested, the case number is 1:16-cv-07673-RA, in the Southern District of New York. The case name is Jane Doe v. Donald Trump. et al. It was filed and closed several times. The current open case was filed on 9/30/16.

    I reviewed the Complaint and Declarations filed under oath. As for Jane Doe, the alleged victim, Snopes correctly quoted her allegations, which I set out above. There is another sworn Declaration by “Tiffany Doe,” that corroborates Jane Doe’s allegations and adds this information:

    4. I was hired by and paid directly by Mr. Epstein from the years of 1991-2000 to attract adolescent women to attend these parties, most of which were held at what is known as the Wexner Mansion located at 9 E. 71st St. in New York City.

    5. In June, 1994 while performing my duties as a recruiter of adolescent women to attend Mr. Epstein’s parties, I met a 13-year-old adolescent woman, the Plaintiff in this matter, at the Port Authority in New York City who said that she had come to New York City in the hope of starting a modeling career.

    6. I persuaded the Plaintiff to attend a series of parties of Mr. Epstein that took place during the summer of 1994. I told her that, if she would join me at the parties, she would be introduced to people who could get her into the modeling profession and she would be paid for attending.

    7. It was at these series of parties that I personally witnessed the Plaintiff being forced to perform various sexual acts with Donald J. Trump and Mr. Epstein. Both Mr. Trump and Mr. Epstein were advised that she was 13 years old.

    8. I personally witnessed four sexual encounters that the Plaintiff was forced to have with Mr. Trump during this period, including the fourth of these encounters where Mr. Trump forcibly raped her despite her pleas to stop.

    9. I personally witnessed the one occasion where Mr. Trump forced the Plaintiff and a 12-year-old female named Maria perform oral sex on Mr. Trump and witnessed his physical abuse of both minors when they finished the act.

    10. I personally witnessed or was made immediately aware of the two occasions where my boss Mr. Epstein attempted to rape and sodomize the Plaintiff. I personally witnessed Mr. Epstein sexually and physically abuse other minor females even younger than her.

    11. It was my job to personally witness and supervise encounters between the underage girls that Mr. Epstein hired and his guests.

    12. I personally witnessed Mr. Trump physically threaten the life and well-being of the Plaintiff if she ever revealed any details of the physical and sexual abuse suffered by her at the hands of Mr. Trump.

    13. I personally witnessed Mr. Epstein physically threaten the life and well-being of the Plaintiff if
    she ever revealed the details of the physical and sexual abuse she suffered at the hands of Mr. Epstein or any of his guests.

    14. I personally witnessed Defendant Trump telling the Plaintiff that she shouldn’t ever say anything if she didn’t want to disappear like the 12-year-old female Maria, and that he was capable of having her whole family killed.

    15. After leaving the employment of Mr. Epstein in the year 2000, I was personally threatened by Mr. Epstein that I would be killed and my family killed as well if I ever disclosed any of the physical and sexual abuse of minor females that I had personally witnessed by Mr. Epstein or any of his guests.

    16. I am coming forward to swear to the truthfulness of the physical and sexual abuse that I personally witnessed of minor females at the hands of Mr. Trump and Mr. Epstein, including the Plaintiff, during the time of my employment from the years of 1990-2000 for Mr. Epstein. I swear to these facts under penalty of perjury even though I fully understand that the life of myself and my family is now in grave danger.

    I know that these are only sworn allegations under oath, but it is hard to understand why tabloid allegations and conspiracy theories against Hillary are somehow more believable and more horrible than these allegations in the minds of Trump supporters.

  70. Sounds like Tiffany Doe is a sicko too, who could have been charged criminally as an accessory. I’m sure everybody waited until the statute of limitations ran before making these allegations. I don’t think we should traffic in this stuff. Let the jury decide.

  71. bearcreekbat

    One more interesting note – any potential Plaintiff might think he or she could get a big money settlement out of a rich guy by suing him based on false allegations. But Tiffany is not a Plaintiff and stands to gain nothing from coming forward as a witness, which tends to give her allegations even more credibility.

  72. bearcreekbat

    Rohr, you make an excellent point about Tiffany. Her statement says terrible things about her own behavior. Under the rules of evidence, this is called an admission against interest and constitutes an exception to the hearsay rule based on the theory that no one would make such self deprecating statements unless they were true.

  73. Darin Larson

    mike, they might need quite a few white coats for Trump and his friends. Guilani thinks that everyone cheats on their spouse and everyone talks about perpetrating sexual assault. Giuliani also thought it was a good idea for Trump to parade out the Clinton accusers. The Maine Governor, who supports Trump, thinks that the country needs Trump to show “authoritarian power.”

    As if Trump needed more enemies–“Trump declares war on establishment Republicans.”

    Trump is crazy. Anybody that criticizes him or spurns him becomes his mortal enemy. He doesn’t even care if he can’t possibly win the election without establishment Republican help. At a time when he should be focused like a laser on what needs to be done to right his campaign, he is busy attacking Paul Ryan and anybody else that doesn’t tell him that he is wearing wonderful clothes as he stands naked before the world.

  74. Darin Larson

    Now Trump is setting up his excuses to make after he loses. First, it was the suggestion of voting rigging, now he will blame everything on the establishment Republicans. He would have won if only Paul Ryan and John McCain had not abandoned him. Get out the popcorn–this guy is going to try to take everything with him as he blows up. If he can’t have a nice thing like the presidency, then no one is going to have any nice things like the presidency. There was Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) in the nuclear age, and now that Trump has gone nuclear there is Donald Assured Destruction (DAD). The fallout for the Republican party could have a half-life similar to Uranium, especially if the Senate and House go Democrat. (There is a pretty good chance the Senate flips, but the House is a long, long shot.)

  75. Great find bcb, I am an old guy but didn’t our representative NOem come out against human trafficking, you know, one that has her name on?

    I guess that was like the dust bunny deal she brought in a developer on to give ag a voice on…what is this person doing in congress? Where is the rebuttal from Paula on hearing such drivel as NOem’s support for an abuser? Whoever is her campaign manager, they should brush up a little on what to expect from a little fibber like NOem who only follows party lines. To hell with the rest, she wants to be a star.

  76. happy camper

    Oh goodness if you’re gonna bring up Epstein allegations you’ve got to talk about Bill Clinton who went on his plane numerous times visiting various places while girls were being trafficked it’s probably just as likely he was behaving badly, and when the women came forward against Bill, Hillary did what she could to destroy them even after finding out Bill was a serial cheater worse than a country song she stayed for the money and power. Some of those women had nothing to gain. Why don’t you care about them?

    And from the emails we’re learning how there was collusion between the DNC and Clinton campaign against Sanders among other things. Looks dirty:

  77. bearcreekbat

    happy, are you aware of any formal proceedings against Clinton based on his association with Epstein?

  78. bearcreekbat

    And by the way ghappy, you might consider using sources other than a highly negative opinion article, don’t you think?

  79. Roger Cornelius

    As much as I often disagree with Happy Camper and consider him politically astute, it is amazing how easily he has been led into Trump’s campaign to justify his vulgarities.

    It is just equally amazing that Happy Camper does understand that Bill Clinton is not running for president.

  80. This campaign has become an experiment. How “intolerable” must a candidate (in this case Tromp) become before (in this case) the GOP faithful will no longer vote for him? I do not mean the artificial, public hand wringing, but really pulling the lever (or bubbling the dot . . .) for the non-GOP candidate? How far would (will) it have to go to break that team allegiance?

  81. Darin Larson

    Happy, now I know why your name is Happy. You must get high a lot to insinuate that Bill Clinton trafficked in women.

  82. mike from iowa

    And from the emails we’re learning how there was collusion between the DNC and Clinton campaign against Sanders among other things. Looks dirty:

    Oh Noes-dirty campaign tricks.

    Did you know wingnuts ran an ad equating Tim Kaine’s legal defense of a criminal with Willie Horton? RNC official even bragged in a tweet about the ad until other wingnuts complained.
    Wingnuts pummeled HRC for defending an alleged rapist and getting him set free and then they doctored a video to make it appear she was laughing about getting the guy off charges.

  83. We seem to have come full circle. My initial comment surrounded how so many on the right are quick to bring out accusations against Bill Clinton even though he isn’t running for office and even though those are just accusations. I’m not suggesting people should be so quick to call out Trump for the accusations against him either – because at the end of the day that is what they are… accusations.

    The fact remains however, that when Trump is caught on tape saying some truly horrific things, the defense of the right immediately jumps to “but Bill Clinton…” as if that makes it ok.

    Seriously? Why is it so hard to just admit Donald Trump is a misogynist? Why is it so hard to just admit he is far from Presidential?

    I get that people don’t like Hillary Clinton, but no matter how much you may dislike her you should still be able to admit that Donald Trump is unfit to serve and that his own actions and his own words prove that he is unfit. If someone cannot even admit that much and their only defense relies upon rumors surrounding the spouse of the opposing Presidential Candidate, it tells me they have no standards and no integrity.

    Let me be frank. I cannot vote for someone who I wouldn’t trust to be alone in an elevator with my daughter. This is one of the many reasons I cannot vote for Donald Trump. Period.

  84. mike from iowa

    Darin-trotting out Paula Jones makes no sense to anyone. Her case was essentially laughed out of court. The judge dismissed her charge of sexual harassment saying that even if Clinton did everything she claimed, it was not harassment.

    Clinton had reached a settlement with Jones to make the case go away and wingnut lawyers would not allow the settlement. They wanted to keep the accusations coming so they look for more dirt. When the case finally was settled, lawyers took most of the money for fees. Ha ha ha.

  85. bearcreekbat

    And happy, I don’t think Epstein made allegations against Trump or Clinton that I am aware of. But according to Wiki:

    In June 2008, after pleading guilty to a single state charge of soliciting prostitution from girls as young as 14, Epstein began serving an 18-month sentence. He served 13 months, and upon release became a registered sex offender.

    And it appears that the time frame in which his criminal behavior was discovered was around the same time that Jane Doe alleged she was raped by Trump during one of Epstein’s parties.

    In March 2005, a woman contacted Palm Beach police and alleged her 14-year-old daughter had been taken to Jeffrey Epstein’s mansion by an older girl and paid $300 after stripping and massaging him. She had undressed, but left on her underwear.

    Police started an 11-month undercover investigation of Epstein, followed by a search of his home. Subsequently, they alleged that Epstein had paid several escorts to perform sexual acts on him. Interviews with five alleged victims and seventeen witnesses under oath, a high-school transcript and other items they found in Epstein’s trash and home allegedly showed that some girls were under 18.

  86. mike from iowa

    Ror-Johnson might be the one person in this race that knows less than Drumpf about anything.

  87. Douglas Wiken

    Trump has never grown out of the rich kid mode with raging hormones and a filthy mouth. He has the manners and behavior of a street thug.

    When Trump started his campaign, I thought he was saying things that would have wide appeal and even thought for some time that his promise to control borders warranted support. BUT, whatever points he made are made irrelevant by his behavior which has more in common with petty dictators and tyranny than with democracy and decency.

    Hillary irritates me much as a wind vane banging on your head might. I really have no confidence her campaign oratory and promises will mean a thing if she gets elected. Even so, should she just be more of the same old same old that has irritated nearly everybody, that is better than thug Trump using the power of government to beat up on enemies and sate his desire for irrational power over everybody in the way of his nonsense.

    We might look at somebody who is manic-depressive in a good time and think they might make a good government official, but knowing what is also possible, realize that they probably have no good justification to be in control of anybody or anything.

  88. Roger Cornelius

    If it is open season on presidential candidate spouses, let’s have a look at Trump’s Commie wife. How do we know that given Trump’s cozy relationship with Putin, Melania isn’t a operative for the Russians.

  89. Roger Cornelius

    Anyway, let’s talk about something of substance.
    Is there a path for Trump in claiming the 270 electoral votes to become president. I’m thinking that if Republicans are true to their word in not supporting Trump, that that path just got out of range for him.

  90. Darin Larson

    In Alabama, Trump’s vile behavior that he described would not constitute sexual assault according to Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions: (From The Weekly Standard (TWS))

    “Alabama senator Jeff Sessions, a top Trump surrogate, said Sunday night that Trump used “very improper language,” but Sessions insisted in the post-debate spin room that behavior Trump described in the video wouldn’t constitute sexual assault.
    SESSIONS: This was very improper language, and he’s acknowledged that.

    TWS: But beyond the language, would you characterize the behavior described in that [video] as sexual assault if that behavior actually took place?

    SESSIONS: I don’t characterize that as sexual assault. I think that’s a stretch. I don’t know what he meant—

    TWS: So if you grab a woman by the genitals, that’s not sexual assault?

    SESSIONS: I don’t know. It’s not clear that he—how that would occur.

  91. Douglas Wiken

    Bill Clinton’s behavior is no more relevant to this election than is Newt Gingrich’s or Guiliani’s sexual dalliance are relevant to this election.

  92. Darin Larson

    Roger, I hate to count chickens before they hatch, but I don’t think Trump has any path to the nomination, short of a massive Russian hack that puts a few key states in question.

    Interesting news out today that Trump is quoting inaccurate information only published in the Russian media. Trump is taking his ques directly from the Russians now. Trump doesn’t need the GOP anymore. He has the Russian FSB agency working on his campaign.

  93. mike from iowa

    Then came the money quote: “Clinton was in charge of the State Department, and it failed to protect U.S. personnel at an American consulate in Libya. If the GOP wants to raise that as a talking point against her, it is legitimate,” said Blumenthal, putting to rest the Democratic Party talking point that the investigation into Clinton’s management of the State Department at the time of the attack was nothing more than a partisan witch hunt.

    The problem with this “smoking gun” is that the words attributed to Sid Blumenthal were actually from a Newsweek article written by the same reporter that wrote the piece I am quoting from here.(And of course they were taken out of context.)

    Which he sort of noticed. (Kurt Eichenwald wrote the Newsweek story)

    Eichenwald says Drumpf supporters emailed him his kids names and the schools they attend. Nice Drumpfistas.

  94. mike from iowa

    Info from The Immoral Minority. Not mine.

  95. mike from iowa

    Roger C- only way Drumpf can win is if election is rigged.

    Drumpf claims he has been unshackled by the RNC so we can see the reak Drumpf. I believe it was Drumpf that solicited the RNC’s help not the other way around.

  96. happy camper

    You know Bill is going to be more than a presidential spouse he’ll be her closest confidant and advisor, partial president basically, even he said two for the price of one. I’m not saying Bill did anything with the minors but he was around Epstein a lot and those are just allegations against Trump so same thing.

    Donald is a jerk and not presidential, but would you trust your daughter alone with Bill Clinton? I’m not sticking up for Trump as much saying the Clintons are dirty. Juanita Broaddrick was a nursing home administrator and had nothing to gain by saying Bill Clinton raped her. Sorry, that’s relevant. Never has so much filth swarmed around a president who’ll be going back to the white house. Hillary is the hypocrite who says believe the victims. Of course we can’t always but Bill Clinton is almost like Bill Cosby at this point minus the drugs. Repeat I’m voting for Hillary but this whole campaign is completely unbelievable.

    Broaddrick took to Twitter yesterday to transmit the following message: “I was 35 years old when Bill Clinton, Ark. Attorney General, raped me and Hillary tried to silence me. I am now 73…it never goes away.”

    Bill Clinton identified in lawsuit against his former friend and pedophile Jeffrey Epstein who had ‘regular’ orgies at his Caribbean compound that the former president visited multiple times.

    Read more:

  97. Darin Larson

    Happy, I see the source for your last story cites the National Enquirer. Solid reporting I’m sure. I also note that in the story Bill Clinton isn’t accused of doing anything wrong. It is guilt by association. Apparently, Prince Andrew was also a friend of Epstein.

  98. bearcreekbat

    Happy, when you say “he was around Epstein a lot and those are just allegations against Trump so same thing,” you might overlooking a couple of details. First, the allegations by the 13 year old victim and her witness are both sworn statements subject to perjury charges if false.

    In sharp contrast, as far as I am aware, the only sworn statement by Broaddrick was in the Jones case where it is reported in Wiki that she swore under oath that Bill did not make unwanted sexual advances toward her:

    Broaddrick filed an affidavit with Paula Jones’ lawyers stating there were unfounded rumors and stories circulating “that Mr. Clinton had made unwelcome sexual advances toward me in the late seventies… These allegations are untrue.”

    I asked if you were aware of any formal allegations against Bill based on his association with Epstein, and you deflect instead of acknowledging that you know of no such formal allegations. Perhaps you can find some unsworn allegations regarding Epstein and Bill? I haven’t seen any such allegations.

    Perhaps that is what we mean when we describe a “false equivalency.” Allegations under oath against Trump are not really the same thing as no allegations against Bill.

    While it is refreshing to hear that you plan to vote for Hillary, it seems somewhat odd that you are constantly on the attack against her. It seems as if you are sending a mixed message, almost like a paid anti-Hillary shill might do. You know, like when someone pretends to support her while doing everything he can to convince us all that she is some horrible, evil person.

  99. happy camper

    Oh I knew you were going to say that. This thing was widely covered by the British press because of Prince Andrew. Here’s a Daily Beast article (there’s tons out there).

  100. bearcreekbat

    Happy, now you provide another interesting link that seems to confirm there have been no sexual abuse allegations against Bill based on his association with Epstein. For example, your link states:

    Guiffre alleges the former U.S. president visited Epstein’s “Orgy Island” when there were underage girls present, but added that she never had sex with him and never saw him have sex with any of the young women.

  101. Well, the electoral math for Trump begins with three votes from SD.

  102. bearcreekbat

    o, I stuck my neck out and have predicted that good South Dakotan Republican’s simply won’t vote for a sexual predator. Hillary will be the first Democrat to win SD in quite a long time.

  103. Darin Larson

    Happy, your daily beast article barely mentions Bill Clinton and the fact that he visited Epstein’s private island along with many many other celebrities and important people. There is not even an allegation that Bill Clinton did anything wrong.

    On the other hand, the article talks about Trump’s connection to Epstein and serious rape allegations against Trump.

  104. happy camper

    Oh come on BCB you know you can indite a ham sandwich anyone can make a formal accusation. True, there’s nothing formal against Bill Clinton with Epstein but you remember Monica Lewinsky. At the time I felt it meant almost nothing and was just a Republican distraction (although not a vast right wing conspiracy as Hillary claimed), but we are voting for someone we hope to be a role model with American values obviously not possible. I’m simply pointing out at this level almost all play by different rules, see themselves above the rest of us, most seem like they are at least slightly sociopaths. Jimmy Carter was probably the most decent one although he is the outcast among the former presidents. Stop making excuses for them and look at this for what it is we’re learning more from Mother Russia than our own biased liberal media. That includes Cory too! The truth is the only thing that really matters.

  105. bearcreekbat

    Well happy, I guess neither Hillary or Bill are ham sandwiches given the fact that Ken Starr could not get Bill indicted and after 30 years of trying not a single right wing prosecutor has been able to obtain a single indictment against either one, despite making every allegation under the kitchen sink.

    By the way, Denis Kitchen was a pretty good underground cartoonist in his day, and he used to like the phrase “under the kitchen sink” to describe some of his work.

    gotta go for tonight. Maybe more mañana.

  106. happy camper

    Hated Ken Star thought it was a witch hunt but step back, and then maybe a couple more steps back. If you stop identifying as Democrat or Republican your perspective might change mine did. It’s that tribal thing Wiken has mentioned and why Rick Weiland’s proposal is legitimate even if he is in the Democratic camp. There are so many articles on Epstein I just grabbed one. Our liberal press is biased don’t fool yourself. Do you really think Bill feels your pain? We need good policies that’s probably all we should expect from our politicians but we’re not getting it.

  107. Darin Larson

    It’s not your pain that Trump is feeling.

  108. mike from iowa

    American Spectator Mag.
    R Emmet Tyrrel
    Richard Mellon Scaiffe
    The Weekly Standard (Kirkland and Ellis law firm)
    Dozens of Clinton enemies in Arkansas

    For a better grasp of the vastness of the conspiracy, read the Hunting of the President by Joe Cpnason and Gene Lyons.

  109. Porter Lansing

    Defendant Trump had sexual contact with me at four different parties in the summer of 1994. On the fourth and fnial sexual encounter with Defendant Trump, Defendant Trump tied me to a bed, exposed himself to me, and then proceeded to forcibly rape me. During the course of this savage sexual attack, I loudly pleaded with Defendant Trump to stop but he did not. Defendant Trump responded to my pleas by violently striking me in the face with his open hand and screaming that he would do whatever he wanted,
    -It should be noted that anyone can file a civil complaint in federal court. The statute of limitations in New York for civil rape cases is five years, but [the] complaint argues that the time limit should be waived, noting that the plaintiff was too frightened to report the abuse because Trump had threatened that if she did “her family would be physically harmed if not killed.”
    -“Both defendants let plaintiff know that each was a very wealthy, powerful man and indicated that they had the power, ability and means to carry out their threats,” the complaint claims.

  110. mike from iowa

    Happy-Starr was appointed prosecutor through another right wing conspiracy. The original Republican (Robert Fiske) appointed by Janet Reno was considered too moderate and Judge David Sentelle along with North Carolina’s two right wing senators-Helms and Faircloth- met to decide how to get rid of Fiske
    and replace him with ultra right wing Ken Starr.

  111. mike from iowa

    Texas wingnut and recipient of a safe congressional seat due to gerrymandering in Texas-Blake “ducky boy pajamas” Farenthold isn’t sure he wouldn’t vote for Drumpf even if he said he liked raping women.

  112. happy is hoping that by keeping up this drumbeat of blaming Bill, he can get a few voters to stay home. What is the point of going after Bill Clinton for stuff that he already made restitution on? The dude paid real money in fines and was disbarred decades ago. It is not to hard to see how and why poor people that are jailed end up back in custody. We are supposed to live in a society that if you pay your debt to society, you can move on with your life unencumbered. Isn’t that exactly what we allowed Donald Trump to do on many occasions? The creditors that he raped and pillaged have no legal way to collect from him, they just got screwed.

  113. Darin Larson

    Trump surrogates are lecturing Republicans about loyalty because many are ditching the Trumpster. Funny, the Trumpster has been anything but loyal to the party. He has changed parties 5 times since the late eighties and returned to the Republican party for good in 2012. I predict after he loses this race he will change parties again.

    He registered as a Republican in 1987 in New York. He switched to the Independence party in 1999. In 2001, he registered as a Democrat. In 2009, he switched again to Republican. In 2011, he became unaffiliated. In 2012, he became a Republican again.

  114. Roger Cornelius

    Speaking of surrogates, on Sunday morning news shows I expected to see a flood of Trump surrogates defending him.
    His own mouthy campaign manager didn’t make an appearance and neither did Chris Christie or Cruz.
    Guliani must have been exhausted after having to jump from network to another to defend Trump
    Apparently Christie and Cruz are back on board after Trump threatened them.

  115. Here are a whole bunch of surrogates Roger, not for Trump though

  116. Roger Cornelius

    Thanks Mike, that was pretty nice and encouraging.
    When Bill Clinton left office he had a approval rating of nearly 70% and it has wavered throughout the news. He continues to be one of the most popular former presidents we have ever had.
    Hopefully Hillary will remind Trump of that fact the next time they debate.

  117. “Donald is a jerk and not presidential, but would you trust your daughter alone with Bill Clinton?”

    Yes, because unlike Trump, Bill Clinton has never been caught on tape bragging that he could sexually assault a women with no repercussions and suggesting it should be ok. Bill Clinton has not been accused of raping a teenager. Bill Clinton hasn’t said it would be acceptable to call his daughter a “piece of ass” and hasn’t suggested that he would date his daughter if she wasn’t his daughter.

    “I’m not sticking up for Trump as much saying the Clintons are dirty.”

    No – you are sticking up for Trump by suggesting that what he has said and done doesn’t matter because Bill Clinton has been accused of various incidents with women. It is common deflection and attempts to minimize what Trump has done/said. You cannot defend the actions and words of one person by suggesting another person is just as bad or worse. If that were the case, we should release Briley Piper because he only killed one person and clearly he isn’t as bad as someone like Charles Manson.

    “Juanita Broaddrick was a nursing home administrator and had nothing to gain by saying Bill Clinton raped her. Sorry, that’s relevant.”

    You don’t think someone accusing a powerful politician of rape has anything to gain? That is incredibly naïve. Some people make entire careers out of such accusations. They not only are often able to collect a settlement from a civil suit, but in the case of a politician they are paraded around by the other party and candidate. They are invited to sit in the front row during campaign speeches and debates. They are given funds for travel and paid appearance fees to be on television. Sometimes they even get a book deal. Even aside from all of that – some people just like the attention.

    I’d probably put more weight on Broaddrick’s claims if she didn’t go under oath and claim they never happened and if she didn’t attend Clinton fundraising events after the alleged rape, and if she didn’t seem to change her tune based upon who she was associating at the time. The bottom line is she hasn’t been consistent and she isn’t trustworthy. We know she has lied about Clinton so how do we know when she was lying and when she was telling the truth?

    Based upon your logic the woman who claims Trump raped her when she was a teenager also has nothing to gain. So that is relevant right? The difference is Donald Trump is running for President. Bill Clinton is not.

  118. Porter Lansing

    Donald Trump walked into the dressing room of the 1997 Miss Teen USA beauty pageant while contestants – some as young as 15 years old – were changing, according to four women who competed. (BuzzFeed News 10-12-2016)

  119. bearcreekbat

    I am more impressed by the witness called Tiffany Doe in Trump’s teenage rape lawsuit. That witness has everything to lose and nothing to gain by coming forward. She could face possible criminal charges for her conduct, she definitely will face retaliation by Trump’s people including being subjected to a vicious cross examination, she is not a Plaintiff so she has no claim to any damages from Trump, she has tried to remain anonymous so she gains no fame or fortune for her brand, and she has subjected herself to criminal perjury charges if it turns out she lied in her sworn statement. All these factors make it a bit difficult to find a reason for Tiffany to put her own head on the chopping block by making false allegations against Trump and Epstein.

  120. bearcreekbat

    Happy, from my personal perspective it is not a tribal thing at all. Rather, it has to do with respect for the real wold, facts that can be documented, and having compassion for other human beings such as Hillary. I think it a terrible thing to attempt to drag down another person by calling her vicious names, blaming her for her husband’s misdeeds, and spreading lie after lie about her and what she has stood for her entire life.

    I didn’t pay that much attention to Hillary before this election cycle. Hearing all of the accusations against her made me curious, so I used my level best amateur research skills to determine if all these accusations had any merit. As I worked through right wing attack writings one thing became abundantly clear. The authors almost unanimously relied on slanderous name calling and pernicious labeling, rather than point out any evidence of actual wrongdoing by Hillary. I also began to learn more and more about her history of fighting for women, children and human beings in need, which impressed the heck out of me.

    Donald Trump has many issues, and it would seem that most of them are based of things that come out of his own mouth. Hillary has attackers and conspiracy theorists, but nothing in her record and behavior in the real world supports these theories and negative statements about her. As a fellow human being she deserves much better. Hence I sometimes follow Porter’s thinking and spend way too much time trying to correct or stop the constant stream of comments that seek to bully and diminish Hillary, a good person who deserves much better from us all.

  121. Happy can be a Trumpaloompa supporter if he so desires. I could honestly care less who he votes for as long as he votes.

  122. mike from iowa

    Dennis Kitchen was raised in Racine, Wisconsin. Does that automatically make him a Racist?

  123. bearcreekbat

    mfi – good one!

  124. mike from iowa

    Thanks, bcb.

    Been brought to my attention that HRC, the pilloried one, has yet to claim to be a victim amidst all this political and character assassination. Drumpf and wingnuts practically wear that word as a proud symbol of who and what they are.

    Ordinary Americans are the real victims. So is the Clinton name and legacy.

  125. mike from iowa

    Drumpf truly is Germanic. He is America’s Obergruppenfuhrer-overtgropingfuror. :) Don’t even bother, Grudz.

  126. Trump has eliminated himself for the Presidency, I just hope the Clintons can bring back their honor and respect to the White House and be role models like back in the 90,s.

  127. mike from iowa

    Headline from yer Wonkette- Joe Arpaio faces contempt charges, Feds grab him by the posse.

    Drumpf is imploding, Texas AG has to go to trial and Arpaio may end up in jail and out of office. October is looking up.

  128. mike from iowa

    One last Democratic election year dirty trick – “We’re doing something that’s incredible, it’s a movement,” Trump said. “But if we don’t win, all it is is a little asterisk in history. There’s never been anything like this so go and register, make sure you get out and vote Nov. 28.”

    Trump’s comments came at a rally in Panama City, Fla., on Tuesday night.

    You didn’t think Drumpf would accept responsibility for this yooooge gaffe, did you?

  129. mike from iowa

    Uh, Drumpf spokesmouth Screwdy Rudy doesn’t remember seeing HRC on 9-11. Drumpf claims if HRC wins the election, America will become an Islamic state.

  130. Darin Larson

    mike, I think Trump saw HRC up on the rooftops celebrating with thousands of Muslims on 9-11. That is why Giuliani didn’t see her.

  131. mike from iowa

    Darin-+1 :)

  132. bearcreekbat

    Wait a minute – I suspected that Hillary was in the basement cuddling up to her extra-top secret email server while she surreptitiously made copies of all the You Tube videos where Trump said something hateful or irrational. I think she is planning another exploitation of Trump’s statements to hatefully inform people about the statements he has made.

    Either that or she was trying to figure out how to convince members of the future House and Senate to raise the federal minimum wage and find a path to amnesty for the honest, hardworking individuals and families lacking all required immigration paperwork to be here or stay here. Actually I would guess the latter.

  133. Roger Cornelius

    mike from iowa,
    Your wonkette link shows George Pataki, he is another republican in the anti-Trump crowd.

  134. Darin Larson

    Kelly Anne Conway is cracking up under the pressure of trying to explain away Trump’s personal sexual assault plan. She actually said this morning on Good Morning America that “Well we want the support of anybody who is going to publicly endorse us, but enough of the pussyfooting around in terms of do you support us or don’t you support us.”

    Whoopsy, apparently John Thune is pussyfooting around. He is back supporting Trump. I thought Thune might have some intestinal fortitude and moral courage, but it turns out it was just indigestion.

  135. mike from iowa

    Hi Roger. Deb G is going to pass on a link to the Des Moines Register’s Sunday yoooooge story about Standing Rock protectors camp with some beautiful photos. Hope you don’t mind. It is a longish article.

  136. Don Coyote


    The Wonkette hasn’t been funny since founder Ana Marie Cox left in 2006.

  137. Troy Jones


    Senator Thune called on Trump to withdraw. He never said he wouldn’t vote for him.

    Also, that is not how I read Conway’s comment. I read it they (Trump campaign) isn’t going to worry about who is supporting them and who is not.

  138. Roger Cornelius

    Thanks Mike, I’ll watch for Deb’s email.

    What is the republicans obsession with the kitty word?

    I understand that the producers of The Apprentice are under pressure to release more vulgar videos made by Trump. Some say the Friday video of Trump will pale in comparison to what may come out.

  139. Roger Cornelius

    Why has Mike Rounds refused to make a full statement on predator Trump?

  140. happy camper

    Listen both of these candidates are deeply, deeply flawed we hope Hillary is less so but stop acting like she’s sliced bread and Trump is raw dough.

  141. Roger Cornelius

    What is wrong with Donald Trump? Everybody knows that election day is Novembers 29.

  142. Roger Cornelius

    Troy Jones has a new blog post up on the Powers Dump Site and has joined Thune and Daugaard in calling for Trump to step down, but at the same time saying he’ll vote for him if he doesn’t.
    This past week we have seen republicans acting like yo yo’s, one day they want Trump to step down and when threatened by Trump, they change their minds and support him.
    I’m not certain how the republican defections affect republican voters, but they must be getting dizzy with the daily switches.
    What is the difference between not supporting Trump and pulling their endorsements and still pledging to vote for the sexual predator? None!!!

  143. happy, choose a side. as trump said Hilary is a fighter. She has been engaged in the political fight for her entire career. for democrats. sliced bread? huh. sliced knuckles maybe. she started taking out Nixon. not a bad start. (“As a young staffer on the House Judiciary Committee overseeing the drafting of Articles of Impeachment of the president of the United States, Clinton observed first hand the collapse of the highest office in the land because of Nixon’s ‘obsession with his privacy’.” Fox News couldn’t avoid spinning it as “privacy”. Freedom of speech is Limbaugh’s big talking point today. lunacy!

  144. happy camper

    So what’s more important? Being a fighter or raising good children? Probably the latter her words.

  145. yeah, then republicans can elect a trump kid too a few years and no experience later. smart

  146. happy camper

    Leslie I was just making a joke and pulling your leg but Hillary is really only one leg above Trump in some ways he is more likable.

  147. Roger, I see Troy adopts the conceit that he’s voting for Electors, not for Trump himself. He’s willing to gamble on an Electoral College going rogue and a Constitutional crisis that an eight-member Supreme Court may not be able to resolve. Camels on stilts.

    What leverage does Troy bring to the negotiation with Trump if he’s still promising to give Trump the vote Trump needs to win the White House?

  148. happy camper

    I’m not convinced he’s all that much worse than she is they’re both despicable.

  149. Roger Cornelius

    happy camper,
    I lost count of how many times you have said that on this blog, you are a broken record.

  150. Roger Cornelius

    By the way Troy, in today’s Rapid City Journal it is reported that Thune does plan to vote for Trump.

  151. Roger Cornelius

    Conceit is the perfect word to decide Troy’s attempt to justify voting for Trump.
    This campaign is well beyond speculation and all the “ifs”, Trump is not going to step aside and Pence has sworn his loyalty to him. If republicans shut down Trump at this point they won’t recover until 2096.
    republicans have made the unwise decision to ignore polls saying they are all rigged for Hillary. They had better pay close attention, Hillary is seriously spreading the gap between her and Trump in most swing states.
    Thune, Daugaard and Trump need to just give it up and admit defeat before they get more embarrassed then they already are.

  152. Darin Larson

    Troy, I’m not sure what you are disagreeing with about Conway’s comments about “pussyfooting around.” I, and others apparently, thought it was an unfortunate term to use considering Trump’s use of a similiar word in the infamous video last week.

    Troy says “Senator Thune called on Trump to withdraw. He never said he wouldn’t vote for him.”

    Oh, my mistake. Thune has withdrawn his support and told Trump to withdraw from the race, but he is still going to vote for Trump! That is the definition of pussyfooting around. Holy cow, you can’t make this stuff up. You should get out of the race Donald, but if you don’t I’m still going to vote for you. But to be clear, I don’t support you any longer, but I’m still going to vote for you. You should really be ashamed of your self, but you have earned my vote. I can’t condone what you said and I won’t support you, except that I will tell everyone that I’m voting for you. Please don’t call Putin and have me eliminated in your purge of disloyal officials. I can do better. Just ask Mitch McConnell.

  153. Darin Larson

    Putin’s ally in the Kremlin, Vladimir Zhirinovsky, says that if HRC is elected, she will be the last president of the US and will start a nuclear war. Zhirinovsky fancies himself the Donald Trump of Russia. Zhirinovsky urges Americans to vote for Trump because he is the only one that can deescalate the tensions with Russia.

    Do you think maybe the Russians have a favorite in the presidential race? Nah, couldn’t be.

  154. happy camper

    The process is so corrupted looks like Clinton was given Sanders debate questions ahead of time by DNC, Donna Brazile, and Roland Martin. Hard to respect any of them.

  155. Zhirinovsky as Trump—good comparison, Darin!

    Hap, we still have to govern. We still have to stand against the Russians with coherent foreign policy based on something other than impulse. Clinton offers policy and public service. Trump offers ego and libido.

  156. mike from iowa

    HRC is deeply, deeply flawed because wingnut lies say so. HRC is only human so she has faults. Drumpf-not so much. Bwa ha ha.

  157. Darin Larson

    Actually Cory, I can’t take credit for the Zhirinovsky and Trump comparison. Zhirinovsky likes to compare himself to Trump. With Zhirinovsky and Putin being buddies, the fact that the Russians are trying to influence our election is beyond question.

  158. happy camper

    True Cory but you could at least call her a bad girl now and then.

  159. Happy Camper: did you read what the question was that was allegedly given to Clinton in advance? It was a death penalty question: a question that is known to be a hot topic and often asked of Clinton.

    In any competent debate prep, questions will be generated for the candidate to practice answers, do you think that absent this alleged leak, the Clinton camp would not have had an answer ready on the topic of the death penalty? How does this alleged “cheat” give an advantage – her prep certainly was going to cover this anyway?

    I could have “leaked” an e-mail to the Trump camp before the last debate letting them know that there will be a question about his comments on sexual assault.

    Keying in on the hot issues is not exactly the work of Nostradamus.

  160. happy camper

    You can’t make excuses for one candidate getting the exact wording. They wanted to take Sanders down in unscrupulous ways, not give him a fair shake, the things you rail against. Call it out it’s a legitimate problem reported by NPR not just Breitbart:

  161. The “exact wording” does not affect the answer.

    I agree that IF this happened, it is shady, but it had NO effect on the debate or the outcome.

    The DNC supported Clinton from the start. There is nothing wrong with that. Superdelegates are part of the process to ensure a crazy charismatic self-destructing megalomaniac does not jump into the race and grab the nomination and hijack the party before Democrats have a chance to realize what they are getting themselves into – it is a check on the chaos the RNC allowed to happen with Trump. This preference is not a guarantee of success: Obama was able to move the machine to his favor in his campaign; Sanders was not able to in his. Having or not having DNC support is not “unfair.”

  162. happy camper

    Oh my where’s the Blog Master? If Cory gave one student the wording of a debate question but only told the others it’s a topic that might come up, not only would he be disciplined and possibly fired but the outcome of that debate would most certainly be affected.

    It’s the people’s job to select the candidate not the DNC. To what extent has Democracy been diverted? This is Cory’s man Sanders. I wonder what he’s thinking right now.

  163. bearcreekbat

    Well it seems our SD representatives that have condemned Trump and urged him to step down, but then tell us they will vote for him anyway, are speculating that gaslighting the voters will be an effective technique that might enable them to hold on to power.

  164. Porter Lansing

    Major GOP Donors Are Asking Trump for Their Money Back
    Leigh Ann Caldwell, NBC News
    Two big-money donors who have given or raised tens of thousands of dollars for Donald Trump are livid at the Republican presidential nominee and are asking for their money back, according to a bundler who raised money for Trump.

  165. Porter Lansing

    @happycamper … Can you verify the validity of stolen e-mails? There’s already been an e-mail proven to have been tampered with as verified by the actual sender of the e-mail.

  166. Don Coyote

    @cah:’He’s willing to gamble on an Electoral College going rogue and a Constitutional crisis that an eight-member Supreme Court may not be able to resolve.”

    What Constitutional crisis would that be? The Constitution is abundantly clear on what happens if the Electoral College fails to elect the President … it goes to the House of Representatives and the Senate will elect the VP.

    In 1912, Taft’s vice presidential running mate James Sherman died just days before the election. When the electoral college met Sherman’s electors chose Nicholas Butler as Taft’s vice president in an election that saw Wilson/Marshall being elected.

    While some States have laws in regards to faithless electors, there’s never been a case of enforcement and the SCOTUS has never ruled on the constitutionality of those laws. Even in Ray v Blair (decided with less than a full complement of justices … 5-2), the SCOTUS held only requiring a pledge was constitutional. It remained silent on an actual vote.

  167. Happy, one thing I will agree with is that the whole party system needs to go. Political parties are not government entities – they are private clubs. Their ENTIRE purpose is to get voters to elect “their” candidate. Both RNC and DNC have only that objective.

    I love Sanders. He decided to attempt to get the Democratic nomination for president. He did not just “run for president”; he opted to get the machine of the DNC’s support for that run. In that he failed. He knew the system and the game before he entered. Because of the power and influence of political parties, elections are not just popularity contests (albeit the RNC ran a far looser ship than the DNC this presidential election cycle).

    Do you seriously think GOP faithful support Trump for any reason beyond party affiliation?

  168. Porter Lansing

    Rapid City and Pierre for Clinton? Absolutely … *see the map

  169. mike from iowa

    I could have “leaked” an e-mail to the Trump camp before the last debate letting them know that there will be a question about his comments on sexual assault.

    Drumpf doesn’t pay attention to anyone but Drumpf. Good luck trying to warn him.

  170. bearcreekbat

    Porter, that is pretty cool chart – I suspected this kind of a trend after Thune & Daugaard said Trump should step own. But then they both gaslighted me by saying they still would vote for Trump. Now your link has provide some evidence to support my former optimism about the people of SD.

  171. Porter Lansing

    You’re right as usual, BCB. I’ve got a good piece coming up if the topic turns to Branstner’s Bullies. Very scientific research into why SoDak is a target for and semi-receptive to “hate groups”.

  172. mike from iowa

    On a darker note, Bob Dylan won a Nobel for literature. Damn HRC’s to blame.

  173. mike from iowa

    When did NPR hire obviously biased reporters like Detrow?

  174. Mike, that might be the first time a white man’s success was “blamed” on HRC.

  175. mike from iowa

    Actually, O, a number of whitey wingnut talk radio loudmouths owe their success to a steady diet of lies and innuendos against both Clintons and Obama.

  176. Porter Lansing

    Just for instigation , clarification and way off topic … Bob “The Weatherman” Dylan isn’t white; which is why Bernie would have lost to Don Trump. Peace, sisters and brothers. ??

  177. mike from iowa

    More OT- not a single female won a Nobel this year. Grrr!

  178. While we are taking the OT birdwalk on Pulitzers, I was pulling for an American writer, but Philip Roth, not Dylan.

  179. bearcreekbat

    I think I finally figured out Trump’s “locker room talk” theory. He told Howard Stern that he would walk in on beauty contest entrants while the teens and women were changing clothes and in various states of undress, and that he could get away with this since he owned the pageants.

    Where do people change clothes you ask – in a “locker room.” Now I think I understand what “locker room talk” actually means in Trump speak.

  180. Women’s locker room talk, by the guy who buys a locker room so he can walk in any time he wants—you’ve found the perfect frame for the phrase, Bear!

  181. mike from iowa

    Bear, your sense of humor is i,pressing this poor iowa farm laborer (ret). :)))