Did Art Marmorstein just call me Charles Manson?
I’ve tried to be nice to local columnist, history professor, and neighbor Art Marmorstein. I’ve learned that conservative NSU profs are not to be tangled with lightly. I’ve found common ground with Marmorstein on Common Core and corruption in state government.
But Marmorstein’s New Year’s Eve column dismissing race and ethnicity as valid political issues deserves at least one barrel (or a good Russ Olson arrow). I know one commenter who may defend Marmorstein’s contention, but I’ve got to challenge it.
Since my local paper paywalls all content, let me try to fairly summarize.
Marmorstein likens race-/ethnicity-based politics to the colonial practices that Germany used to divide and subjugate the Rwandan Tutsis and Hutus. He cites America’s own oppressive Jim Crow and anti-Indian policies as examples where “the unscrupulous have often exploited and magnified ethnic divisions for personal or political gain.” He nods approvingly at the 1960s and 1970s, when “most Americans were ready to turn away from the ugliness of race-based policies.”
But then Marmorstein falls into some right-wing propaganda, saying we left-wingers keep bringing racism back:
For the radical left, the blurring of ethnic distinctions was something of a problem. Just as Charles Manson had tried to provoke a racial civil war as a precursor to “Family” takeover of the country, militant groups like Venceremos, the Symbionese Liberation Army and the Weather Underground counted on a magnified sense of racial grievance as the key ingredient in their much-hoped for revolution [Art Marmorstein, “Race or Ethnicity? Just Say No,” Aberdeen American News, 2015.12.31].
Invoking Charles Manson to brand leftists as racists? Wow—that’s a new one on me!
Marmorstein mentions that “Race-baiters on both the left and right ended up marginalized or at least moderated,” but he offers no catalog of rightist race-baiters like his Manson/Che/Hearst/Ayers lefty roster. Marmorstein laments that “We’re now seeing a resurgence of the ethnic divides useful to political opportunists but terrible for the country as a whole,” but he gives no examples.
Maybe those omissions are the editors’ fault. Maybe Marmorstein had incidents in mind that he would label as contemporary leftist race-baiting. But as is, Marmorstein’s column says, Issues of race and ethnicity are just tools of leftists co-opting colonialist oppression tactics to lead us to a Rwanda-style genocide.
Dr. Marmorstein, please remind us which wing is offering a pack of Presidential candidates stoking fears of people who don’t look like us and promoting 1930s-style fascism? Which wing has been saying, “Syrian refugees? No way!“? Which wing has resisted policies intended to dismantle racial discrimination and support voting equality in South Dakota?
Like Marmorstein, I cheer the Kingian ideal of “a society where children of all races walked hand in hand and where individuals were judged not on the color of their skin but on the content of their character.” But as long as certain people and institutions resist that ideal—as long as Presidential candidates denigrate brown people as hazards, as long as police are more likely to arrest or shoot blacks and Indians than whites, as long as legislatures target minorities with voter-suppression tactics—those of us who believe in liberty and equality must push back. Like Dr. King, we can call for an ideal yet push back against racist practices without ourselves being racist.
We leftists are not the colonialists of Rwanda, Dr. Marmorstein. We are the ones trying to stop Trump, Jackson County, and others from making that happen in America.
Not all NSU professors are conservative. There are some good ones in the English department.
Tom Gogola has a piece in Salon that seems right on point with the comment:
“A politically correct right-wing maintains to the bitter end that any attempt to talk about race, especially in relation to Obama, has to turn the tables back on the person doing the talking, because it’s probably a liberal.”
http://www.salon.com/2015/12/31/we_werent_ready_for_a_black_president_race_hate_donald_trump_guns_fox_news_terror_and_our_tragic_american_condition/
Dr. Newquist has a link on his current blog that shows how full of stuffing Marmorstein is regarding race and the Trump, Jackson County effect on the way people behave. Dr. Newquist’s link shows how hate is showing its face to the north of us and I ain’t talkin Canada for sure.
When I think of race relations I think of Indian-White relations in South Dakota. I don’t know of anybody in South Dakota that is trying to sabotage race relations but I do know a lot of people who are working to better them. I think that Rapid City Community Conversations is making headway in improving race relations in western South Dakota. Hell, the Chief of Police is even involved. These are people working together with no thought of who is conservative or liberal. Marmorstein doesn’t know of what he speaks.
I see just now that Rapid City mayor, Steve Allender, is adding a Tribal Liaison officer to his staff. That move is a long ways from race baiting.
Good link BCB, when all of this is so obvious, why do folks like Marmorstein put the blinders on? The only thing that I can think of is that they recognize themselves as being the cause of the problem and do the ol right wing two step to change the subject.
This guy must not like his job. Of course when people rise up and protest him it will be racially motivated by the godless,Commie Left. Then he will become another wingnut victim who bring about their own fall from grace and can’t understand why.
I think he is referring to elected Democrats such as Rahm Emanuel and Hillary Clinton, who regularly wade into race politics for their benefit. I think national Democrats need to become a little less sloppy in their brazen use of race to run their political machine. It is only a matter of time before more Americans catch on to these watermelon-rind-crime-scene Democrats. I am sure if there were a smidgen of diversity in the Democratic primary race that Bill would be gladly playing the race card in South Carolina all over again.
HRC isn’t in elective office.
All holidays are made up. South Dakota is race blind like Mike Rounds is a hydrologist.
Jerry, I’d love to see Dr. Newquist’s critique running in print side by side with Marmorstein’s column.
Excellent Rapid City example, Paul. Mayor Allender has made statements about racism that suggest agreement with Marmorstein’s desire to beat back the issue, but you remind us that even he is pursuing conversations to address practical problems, as he suggested he would during the campaign. We cannot deny that racism exists and affects citizens’ liberty and equality; we thus have an obligation to talk about racism and implement policies to mitigate its effects, if not snuff it out completely.
See, Spencer? There you go putting words in Dr. Marmorstein’s mouth.
And are you serious? The discussion of race raised by the Left is worse in your mind than the rank racism of the Right?
Race and religion is a very important part of our history that goes unchallenged for the most part. Our neighbor to the way north, Canada, seems to have come to the right choices regarding both. In short, why can’t we be them. http://www.nccm.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/NCCM-Employer-GUIDE-PF.pdf
The rank racism of the Left is the same as the rank racism of the Right. To say otherwise is being intentionally blinded by one’s own overgrown and misplaced sense of righteousness. So sayeth grudznick.
So I have an idea,
Let me Taze the honored (and handcuffed) professor 28 times, have Mr. Kurtz video tape it, have MIke from Iowa defend me, have 12 natives(a jury of my peers) let me go saying it was the professors fault.
Then he can write another abstract b.s. opinion saying this is all made up political reteoric. While people here try to deal with some of the poorest living conditions by the first americans, good ol boy corruption, an obsolete state legislative system and low teacher pay.
Keep up the great work Cory. Thanks
Roger sayeth the grudznick is wrong.
Evangelical Christians also make the claim the Democratic left is racist and yet cannot provide any substance in their claims.
To the evangelicals, if you bring up the subject or point out instances of racism, you are in fact a racist.
Cory is about as far left as a Democrat can be, now tell me how he is a racist.
Mr. H and Mr. Manson may have different hair cuts but they both have those wild eyes and draw cultists.
as i was upstairs in the ranger bar taking flaming hookers from trays of drinks late on new years eve, i heard that grudz wears a swastica tattoo on his low back. true story. say it aint so wild eyes
Spike,if you want danger and excitement in your life,why not rassle grizzly bears? I would be thrilled to defend you. You might not be. :)
Grudz, I will confess, I used to have a long hairstyle not unlike Manson’s.
Spike, don’t taze me, bro! And don’t taze my Aberdeen bro Art. We will continue to settle our differences with words and law.
But I do appreciate the very practical perspective in which you put the columnist’s abstractions and rhetoric. As you and Roger note, Marmorstein’s and Grudznick’s rhetoric is a convenient generic dodge that avoids talking about how real people are affected by real actions and policies.
yup. another form of denial.
I Like Spike! I can see it on bumper stickers.
Me too! Spike! Run for something!
Hi, Cory. I apparently hit a never with that last column. A couple of points here.
1. I didn’t have people like you in mind with this column. This is a complaint, not about liberals, but about the illiberal (i.e., Marxist) left and the intentional polarizing of American society. It’s an extraordinarily worrisome thing. Both Hitler and Mussolini came to power in part because of political destabilization brought about by the Marxists of Germany and Italy respectively.
2. Manson was a nut-case, but it’s certainly nothing new to associate him with the radical left. Do some research into the Family and you’ll see what I mean.
2. The idea of magnifying racial tension as the *only* way to provoke the revolution they wanted was standard leftist dogma in the 60’s and 70’s. I took a class from Juan Flores, one of the Stanford professors supporting Venceremos. He brought in radical speaker after radical speaker as guests, and the idea of race war touching of the revolution was pretty standard.
3. The Symbionese Liberation Army and the Weather Underground material is filled with passages talking about how provoking racial class was key to the desired revolution. https://archive.org/stream/YouDontNeedAWeathermanToKnowWhichWayTheWindBlows_925/weather_djvu.txt
I will quote the great Sicangu Chief from Rosebud, Chief Ted Thin Elk, as Grandpa Sam Reaches in the movie Thunderheart…”Run, run for the Stronghold Thunderheart, the soldiers are coming”
My wish list for the new year is good health and safety for you and those around you and to persevere in your journeys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrCOFUpRg8w
“We choose the right to be who we are.”
Oh, so that’s what Art was saying!
First, let’s keep in mind that when the Aberdeen American News audience reads “Left,” they read, “liberals.” We must choose our words to get our message across clearly to our audience.
Second, are Manson, Venceremos, the SLA, and Weather Underground active? Are they relevant to current political headlines? In what specific campaigning and activism do we see their tactics at work today? Can we distinguish radical-left race-baiting from legitimate protest against racist policies and practices? Absent that dot-connecting and distinction, the column serves to reinforce right-wing complacency and dismissal of legitimate complaints about racism.
To associate the 60’s radicals with liberals is like associating Donald Trump with conservatives. When the times are extreme, extremists surface.
good one, Spike
Uh,the ridiculously radical right are the ones polarizing ‘murrica with racial themes and constant hate spewed towards everyone of color plus the usual poor,elderly,disabled, etc.
Right, Mike. We liberals had our days of radicals but as Mr. Heidelberger says, “Where’s the lasting effect. Where’s the example of the radical left these days. Is it Obama’s executive action to make registering guns the new normal? Hardly. What you say is perfect. It’s the radical right that are prominent today and backstroking to incidents 50 years ago is an invalid contemporary comparison.
Porter,
Exactly, who are the radicals of today?
Are they the followers of Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton?
Or are they the right wing radicals like that Roof guy that wanted start a race war by murdering blacks while they prayed in church?
Or are they that dangerous Dear guy in Colorado Springs that murdered 14 people at a Planned Parenthood Clinic?
Like Roof, Dear was trying to make a right wing political statement.
I’m certain we can add more of these vile acts that happened in 2015. We’ve had both international and domestic acts of terrorism in recent years, but I cannot immediately identify any liberal, Democrat, or leftist acts of violence. Help me you if you can.
By Marmorstein choosing to live in the past of 60 years ago, he misses what is happening in contemporary America.
My mother was fond of saying, “if you don’t read your history, you may end up living it”, that does not mean that events of 60, 70, or even a 100 years ago will happen again.
Mike–
When they grew up, the people my age that embraced Venceremos, the SLA, and the Weather Underground tended to drift toward academia. University humanities and social science departments are far more likely to have doctrinaire Marxists than free marketers. Bill Ayers, Angela Davis and plenty of lesser-known but similarly minded folk had an easier time rising through the academic ranks than (say) traditional liberals, because, once Marxists gain an academic position, they grease the wheels for their fellow-travelers whenever they can. Eric Holder (who is about my age) is a typical product of the radicalized environment of the “elite” college campuses of the early 70’s. Obama often speaks the language of the Marxist left–though I’ve been told by a “real” Chicago community organizer that he never walked the walk.
So, while the Weather Underground may be dead, it’s ghost goes marching on. And the New Black Panthers and the Nation of Islam are very much alive–and far more influential than one might think.
http://www.ebony.com/black-listed/news-views/mayor-rahm-emanuel-calls-on-farrakhan-for-help#axzz3w7G3nP5A
It is interesting that Marmorstein left off his list of 60’s radicals the American Indian Movement. Is the subject of AIM a little to close to home for the professor.
By the way, those of Cory’s readers who don’t have online to the Aberdeen American News and who want to see the original article should be able to read it here:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153539658427670&set=a.56147312669.68547.686317669&type=3&theater
Mr Marmorstein,it has been my experience that as conservatives grow up they shy away from academics altogether-especially sciences. I have never encountered a group of people with less intellectual curiosity than today’s Republican party.
I heard of the NBP-once-several years ago when Fake Noize and the dumbass dubya administration located two (2) NBP members at a Philadelphia polling station during the 2008 election and filed charges that these two people were actively intimidating voters. The charges were dropped about two weeks before Obama took office,but that didn’t stop whitey wingnuts from trying to blame Obama for not prosecuting these awful Black people,but…..
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread593410/pg1
Mr. Marmorstein … You drip paranoia. Although higher academia does skew liberal it hardly skews radically. The New Black Panthers and Nation of Islam aren’t prevalent or influential unless you’re afraid of them. I’m not. Why are you? You live in Aberdeen, SD for God’s sake. I’d say you’re trying to shield yourself and your political party from valid criticism.
L. Frank Baum has nothing on Professor Mammorstein, init?
I had Angela Davis as a Philosophy prof at UCLA in 1970 and I mainly remember that she was a committed Marxist whose ideology of revolution was extra-inclusive of mainly black and Hispanic minorities because they were overrepresented on the low end when it came to wealth and income distribution. I don’t think Marxists are necessarily inciting a racial divide, I think they’re trying to create a classless society with a message that by its nature is directed at the underclasses, which by any measure are disproportionately populated by racial minorities. This is more incidental than intentional.
Art! Thank you for that link to the full article! Very helpful for those following along at home. :-)
Thanks for posting your drivel Mr. Marmorstein. I think you are fairly ignorant regarding the Weather Underground as well as your references to the good people of Africa. Sickle Cell is the main difference between the two which was discovered in 1910 and identified in 1920’s. One can argue many things for sure but regarding this difference, it is clear that the purpose of keeping the two distant was because one was a carrier and one was not.
Slate did an article regarding the Weather Underground http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history_lesson/2003/06/notes_from_the_underground.1.html One thing is clear from that article was the fact that there would never be a unification between the Black Panthers and the Weather Underground. Sorry dude, you are just plain wrong on all counts. “They proceeded to wreak random violence in the Chicago streets and get arrested en masse. The main results: They alienated themselves from potential allies like the Black Panthers and furnished Richard Nixon with cheap ammunition for his rhetorical assaults on anti-war protesters.” I know you understand “potential” and the meaning of the word. It is clear they did not have an association.
Manson thought the song Helter Skelter would get Blacks to rise up and murder Whites and when that didn’t happen,Manson ordered people killed and wrote Pig in blood hoping that Black Panthers would be accused of the Tate/LaBianca murders. Seems quite a stretch to me to say that Manson tried to foment a race war if that was the only connection to a race war that was already underway. I must have really missed something.
As usual Tsitrian is the light in the room (John, I am becoming a big fan of your writing). He shares a helpful experience that undermines the theme set forth by Marmorstein. While not fortunate enough to have Davis as an instructor, I enjoyed the classes taught by Bill Jahn in the mid-70s at then BHSC, starting with Introduction to Marxist Economics (or similarly titled classes).
Never once did Jahn advocate violence to move the Marxist theory forward. Rather, he tried to help students gain a clear picture of what Marxism was all about. I think he probably believed that a Marxist society where all members were valued and no one’s labors were exploited could be a good thing for humanity. But he never suggested that anyone use violence, rather, he tried to help us understand the real differences between Marxist economic/historical philosophical theories and the Adam Smith theories. He encouraged us to come to our own conclusions.
Marmorstein’s arguments seem to denigrate the goal of understanding alternative economic theories by demeaning those folks who first opposed the war in Vietnam, and then later taught students about the nature of Marxism in colleges and universities. The idea that someone would like to see a better world for all is not the same as encouraging violence and harm against others.
Indeed, if Marmorstein really wants to look at history, perhaps he would address the anti-communist paranoia promulgated by McCarthyism (as still encouraged today by Ann Coulter and her Fox friends), and compare the damage these views did to Americans to the damage caused to Americans by all the communist organizations we ever had in the USA.
We liberals seem to be in agreement that Marxism and racism aren’t connected by tenet or desired outcome. Your turn, Professor Marmorstein.
Jerry…
Hard to see what your complaint is Jerry. Are you arguing that that Hutu/Tutsi distinction was indeed important before Belgian and German colonization? You’d have a tough time with that one. My friend Jean-Pierre Niyikora had a Hutu father and a Tutsi mother. His claim was that that historically Tutsi and Hutu were more class/income distinctions and very fluid. A Hutu that earned a bit of extra wealth was all-of-a-sudden a Tutsi. I am pretty sure that the scholarly consensus is that most of those distinctions the Germans and Belgians tried to find were bogus, attributable more to diet than anything else. Here’s a summary of what Jean-Pierre had to say in a guest lecture I hosted some years back.
http://articles.aberdeennews.com/2010-12-08/news/26439346_1_hutus-tutsis-rwandan-genocide
Are you arguing that there are in fact some genetic differences between Hutu and Tutsi? I never say there weren’t: I just say that the differences were minor and the colonizers made a major out of a minor with their racial theories.
I have no idea at all what your point is about the Weather Underground and the Panthers. A good Slate article, rightly pointing out that the Weather Underground was as much radical chic as anything else. But I never say anything about unification between Panthers and Weather Underground: just that both groups welcomed the possibility of race war.
The relationship between white radicals and others is an interesting one. Venceremos split over the issue in the early 70’s, and right about that time Stokely Carmichael expelled all whites from SNCC–the youth adjunct to MLK’s SCLC! Nation of Islam influence important there.
I like a bunch of John T’s writings. Wish he’d change party affiliations or go Independent.
Angela Davis was a striking young woman of color back when I had some hormones and wasn’t interested in her for her brains. Loved her Afro.
The Germans were warmly greeted as the new “owners” of the complete territory of Rwanda-Urindi and found that there rule was not difficult there. Germany ruled this place without issue until the spoils of why World War I was fought in the first place, was taken from them and given to Belgium to exploit. This was done much to the chagrin of Britain who was the one who really wanted to colonize the place. Belgium was bled white from the great war as was Britain but did not want to displease those that had more power and influence, so Belgium relinquished the North West portion of Rwanda to the British. That remains to this day the South Western corner of Uganda. This part is rich and more fertile than most parts of Rwanda and thereby adding further displacement to both.
The real tension and the power was never up to the two clans, it was always up to the colonial powers that displaced them not because of racial or ethnic ethnicity but because of the taking of their lands. The bloodbaths were because of the wealth in the divide and conquer. It was once again the fault of wealth and power.
The differences between the Weather Underground and the Black Panthers as an example, could never have materialized with the way the two operated.
WWII in Color is on Netflix: similarities in exaggerated mannerisms and posturing between Mussolini and Trump is creepy. The destruction and unbelievable acts of human nature occurred just 75 years ago. The series is worth watching.
Interesting viewpoint from a republican regarding the racial divide some of us are clear about. http://goplifer.com/2015/12/27/sympathy-for-the-blue-eyed-devil/
“RUN FOR SOMETHING”
“Angela Davis was my Philosophy prof.”
WOW-best lines of the year!!
Heavy. Let’s take the right down 2016
If we keep this thread going, we may make Cory’s top 25 list for next year!
Anyway, I suspect that most of you are a bit younger than me, though if John had Angela Davis as a professor at UCLA, he’s got to be a year or two older.
Question for John: did Angela Davis ever talk about George Jackson and the Soledad Brothers? Ever express any regret of the use of the guns she purchased in the escape attempt? Any remorse over the death of Judge Haley?
http://www.yankton.net/opinion/editorials/article_bfa27948-aea5-11e5-9073-db23d5fdc2fb.html
Mr. Marmorstein, I was in Davis’s Existentialism and Phenomenology course (she was in the Philosophy Dept.) during the Spring quarter of 1970 (stood close by her and one of the Chicago 7–David Dellinger, iirc–during the Kent State riots that shut down the campus), which was just before the Soledad/George Jackson events took place.
Marmorstein and Blanchard are right wing white guys deflecting attention from the actions of radicals like the Bundyists in Oregon, the mass murders provoked by Republicans and real lack of left wing militancy.
No different than Bosworth and Carson who raise money by being loud.
jerry, the article in your link is both interesting and provocative, especially coming from a purported conservative – thanks!
Spencer-your position at Hoven as science teacher grades7-12, gives you the opportunity to leave a legacy. Look at Newquist’s blog about Grand Forks.
My 7th grade history teacher was phenomenal, and I remember many of his lectures 50 years on. No politics, just facts.
Lyle Scandrett, History, Choir RCSD
I’m wondering if Mr. Marmorstein has had a chance to read Ta-Nehisi Coates’s letter to his son (Between the World and Me). Sees he may find there a little history to which he would otherwise have little or no direct personal access. Curious that his article makes no mention of the politics of South Africa, especially since he appears to be intent on warning us against the dangers of structural racism in the body politic.
David: Exceptional article and attachments concerning Grand Forks, “broken glass”. What are your thoughts of Art’s work?
Charles Manson’s dad is Scott Walker. Who knew?
John T.
As a local reporter for a small newspaper on the Oglala Sioux Reservation during the Wounded Knee occupation of 1973, I had occasion to meet Angela Davis.
Given that there was so much political activity happening as a result of the occupation she wasn’t a really big story.
The tribe had a list of Dick Wilson’s “outside agitators” that he wanted removed from the reservation and Angela was close to the top of the list.
When the BIA police and the FBI caught up with her they transported her to reservation/Nebraska border and unceremoniously sent her on her way.
I knew that, Roger. Can’t say I blame Wilson for wanting to keep peripheral elements out, especially somebody as high profile as Davis.
Peripheral elements are leading the terrorist siege in Oregon.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-takes-helm-of-efforts-to-end-militia-occupation/
Bill–
No, I haven’t read the Coates book or the letter. If you’ve got a quick link to the text of the letter itself, I’d love to take a look at it. My Google search led me to plenty of excerpts and comments about the letter, but I’d like the context.
Actually, Apartheid was in the back of my mind as I wrote the column as an example of the ugliness of the exploitation of racial divides. But I’ve got 500 words per column!
http://www.amazon.com/Between-World-Me-Ta-Nehisi-Coates/dp/0812993543
Try harder, Art.
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2015-10-08/ta-nehisi-coates-between-the-world-and-me
Here’s a link to the letter, which ran in The Atlantic on July 4, 2015:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/tanehisi-coates-between-the-world-and-me/397619/
What Mr. Marmorstein is missing is the root cause of all of this and that is moolah. If there were not an exploitation of goods and minerals, there would not be racial divides nor would there be ethnicity issues as well. Nothing defeats those louder than equal employment.
Take a look at the apartheid in Israel at present regarding the Palestinians. This has nothing to do with race or ethnicity, it all has to do with wealth and the grand theft of oil at the top of the mess. Money rules and the white man has the control over it for the most part. In order for the whole capitalism scheme to work, there must be a looser and in this case, it must be those of color that pay the heavy price.
500 words? Oh, the tyranny of corporate news! :-)
That’s why you should blog, Art—no word limits! Plus it’s easier to include links, which we all love.
Now hold on on that apartheid comment. Yes, the white ruling elite exploited racial divides, but the racism was real, and it needed to be stopped. Was Nelson Mandela wrong for challenging that racism?
Didn’t Jerry Fatwell and his brand of kristianity applaud apartheid and wanted it to continue?
Racism is the word that we can all get behind as it describes just part of the meltdown. You have to exploit in order to get the riches. In South Africa’s case, it was not just the color divide, the obvious in what you get by the exploitation. The wealth in land and its minerals speak louder than race. Without the ability to extract that wealth, apartheid looses. Mandela, I think, understood that to strike in the meaning of racial equality, also meant that the wealth gravy train would be disrupted and it was going to bankrupt P.W. Botha and the rest of the ruling class. Economic stress lead to rioting and other forms of disruption, the only way out for them was to allow voting to save the nation from economic collapse.
This NPR story about African Americans relocating to the South rather than tolerating brutal winters and white people serves as my template for racial parity.
There has been some comparison of the christianic militants’ siege in Oregon with the occupation at Wounded Knee. Putting the American Indian Holocaust Museum on the Pine Ridge would be a huge step in reconciliation with tribal nations.
http://www.nsweekly.com/news/2015-12-29/More_News/Giago_signs_exclusive_agreement_to_buy_Wounded_Kne.html
These bozoheads in Oregon are all over the map in what they profess. One thing is for sure, they are grifters who have broken the law by poaching or by simply not paying their pasture rentals. Much like the Freemen from Montana, they just don’t want to pay their share of the agreements they have signed. I give it less than a week for it to break as they will want their mommies by then.
Another interesting tangent with Black Hills in Oregon protest, it’s happening in Harney County, OR named after same Harney as Harney Peak. Yikes!
Leslie,
First of all, I would note that when professors engage in public dialogue and express their personal opinions, they must tread carefully on what is potentially dangerous ground. On one hand, they can engage in free inquiry and free speech. On the other, they are reminded—in their contract and in Regents policy—that when they speak in public, they are representatives of their profession and their institution and the way they conduct their public discussions reflects on both. I was a columnist for the same newspaper Dr. Marmorstein writes for and a blogger, but not until I retired. I quit the column when the newspaper allowed other columnists to distort and falsify factual representations and its editorial pages were filled with political demagoguery, not constructive, fact-based discussion. I have not subscribed to that newspaper since that time.
NSU has earned a reputation for being an institution with a strong partiality and tolerance for neoconservative politics. This coupled with its coddling of Joop Bollen for many years and serving as the incubator for the EB-5 scheme has cast an unfair shadow on its faculty and its mission and has been detrimental to the College of Arts and Sciences programs. NSU, in fact, provides important and affordable higher education opportunities, but some potential students are discouraged from taking advantage of them.
As for Dr. Marmorstein’s premise that the tribal conflicts in Rwanda are parallel in development to America’s history of slavery, Jim Crow, and the dispossession of the American Indian, I think that needs to be examined in refereed journals and by panels of academic peers.
One paragraph in support of his contention raises serious allegations that need examination:
“Venceremos, the SLA, and the Weather Underground tended to drift toward academia. University humanities and social science departments are far more likely to have doctrinaire Marxists than free marketers. Bill Ayers, Angela Davis and plenty of lesser-known but similarly minded folk had an easier time rising through the academic ranks than (say) traditional liberals, because, once Marxists gain an academic position, they grease the wheels for their fellow-travelers whenever they can. Eric Holder (who is about my age) is a typical product of the radicalized environment of the “elite” college campuses of the early 70’s. Obama often speaks the language of the Marxist left–though I’ve been told by a “real” Chicago community organizer that he never walked the walk.”
At that time campuses were hotly involved in supporting civil rights and protesting the Viet Nam War. I do not recall that they were shaped in thought and expression by a Marxist cabal. And the claim that Obama “speaks the language of the Marxist left” needs some careful textual analysis. What is not acknowledged is that Marxism addresses many of the same problems as the founding of America did. In a famous letter to Abraham Lincoln after his election to a second term, Marx congratulates him for abolishing slavery. Does that mean the Lincoln was talking the talk of Marxism? Or that America was founded upon Marxist principles?
“The workingmen of Europe feel sure that, as the American War of Independence initiated a new era of ascendancy for the middle class, so the American Antislavery War will do for the working classes. They consider it an earnest of the epoch to come that it fell to the lot of Abraham Lincoln, the single-minded son of the working class, to lead his country through the matchless struggle for the rescue of an enchained race and the reconstruction of a social world.”
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/iwma/documents/1864/lincoln-letter.htm
My take on all this is that it is time for professors and other students of America to open the books and fire up their minds and their computers and get to work.
And the sentence in the second graph should read:
This sentence should end with a question mark: Does that mean the Lincoln was talking the talk of Marxism?
And the sentence in the second graph should read: NSU, in fact, provides important and affordable higher education opportunities, but some potential students are discouraged from taking advantage of them.
Well composed, Dr. Newquist
I was on campus at that time and a Viet Nam war protester. We were often accused of leaning Marxist but that was by Nixon, to bolster his agenda.
Thoughtful as always, Dave. Miss the conversations we used to have at NSU.
I don’t know the internal politics that led to Joop Bollen association with NSU–perhaps you do. I’d guess it was the Chamber-of-Commerce type Republicans who were involved behind the scene in pushing for international business as our center of excellence and in creating the International Business Institute. Maybe that’s what you mean by neocon. Clyde Arnold hired Bollen, and, if I remember correctly, Dr. Arnold told the students in my History 152 class that he voted for George H.W. Bush in 1992 and for Clinton in 1996.
Porter–
Not sure what your role was in the campus protests, but the typical pattern at Stanford and Berkeley was that demonstrations were organized by a handful of student and faculty leaders. It was an exciting time, and lots of students showed up, some because they supported the protests, some because they just wanted to see what was going on, and many because, on a beautiful spring day, a demonstration was a good excuse to cut class. High school students swarmed to campus because it was a great chance to throw a rock through a window. As demonstrations heated up, the organizers made themselves scarce just before law enforcement showed up. And who got arrested? The freshmen.
Anyway, I knew fairly well lots of the demonstration organizers. As a stupid freshman, I marched in support of Bruce Franklin, the Marxist professor Stanford was in the process of firing.
My take is that relatively few student protesters were Marxists, but there were lots of useful idiots among them–myself included for a while. If you look at (say) the Port Huron Statement, you’ll see that SDS was heading in a Marxist direction long before Nixon was president. Remember the chant, “Hey, hey, LBJ: how many kids have you killed today?”
And then there’s the disturbing, “Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh–NLF is gonna win.” Another Johnson-era slogan, though Nixon-era protesters used it too. Students cheering for the NLF were cheering for the communists whether they realized it or not.
LBJ-Loose Brain Jackass. Don’t change Dicks in the middle of a screw-vote for Nixon in 72.
My point in bringing up Coates and South Africa Mr. Marmorstein, is to make the point that in both cases what you are suggesting as being somehow “optional” and “tactical” or “politically manipulative” (or whatever it is you are suggesting racism is about) is, at least from the perspective of those being discriminated against, an exercise in denial (or as Coates puts it, buying into the Dream.) Racism has been and continues to be “baked into the national cake” of the culture and body politic of both countries. And we won’t get it out simply by refusing to see that it is still there, or by trying to name that which is still there something else. One would think historians would, at a minimum, be cognizant of this truth, unless, of course the “historian’s” intention is to rewrite history. Surely you’re not proposing that, are you? Rewriting history?
Mr. Fleming, as you note this gathering is in Harney County, named for the woman killer. It was also a Native reservation. So the irony is even more heaped on with that knowledge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malheur_Indian_Reservation
It’s misdirected to call our protest and us “useful idiots”. Vietnam protests are the hallmark achievement of our generation. That you’ve lost your way is a personal problem, sir. That achievement and Obamacare define and decorate us. What is it you on the right point to as having accomplished in your fifty years since? Which war? Which voter disenfranchisement? Which mass murder? I’m still a member of the SDS and a proud retired Teamster’s elected official. Don’t equate Marx with Stalin.
I love that one. “Hey, Hey LBJ…how many innocent Asian farmers and children defending their farms have you killed today?”
Bill–
I wonder if Cory’s summary of my article (and the headline of this thread) create something of a misunderstanding. Cory says I dismiss race and ethnicity as political issues. Obviously, that would be silly. You are right in saying that not considering race and ethnicity would make for mighty strange history. What I object to here is how opportunists of both left and right work to increase rather than decrease polarization. In the 17th century, John Locke talked about the problems of religious polarization, noting especially that, when in a minority, people cry for toleration, but, when in the majority, they refuse grant others the same toleration they had once said was important. Locke’s argument was that the only way around the issue was to take religion out of the political equation: no established religion of any variety.
I am sure that you can see that the rudeness, condescension, incivility, and generally sneery attitude of figures like Trump don’t further the rational discourse essential to democracy. I am not sure that you see how much the rudeness, condescension, incivility and generally sneery attitude of the left adds to the problem. Where is the place for legitimate discussion of foreign policy, health care, immigration, and economic policy when both sides immediately resort to ad hominem attacks?
What worries me is that large portions of the left and right don’t want democracy anymore, and, like the Nazis and Communists of pre-Hitler are actually looking forward to revolution of one sort or another. That 1960’s “Come the Revolution” spirit seems to have returned big time.
Ok, Porter…now i see where you are coming from. If you’re still SDS, you know very well what you’re for and what you are against–clearly not a useful idiot.
Mr. Marmorstein, thank you for your clarification. I look forward to more from you and am pleased you’ve found your way to Mr. Heidleberger’s discussion board. I’m finding Coates’s letter to his son to be an intensely significant insight into our existential circumstance as it regards racial discord in our country — a contemporary literary milestone if you will, and am curious as to how your reading and digestion of it might affect your thought process. I agree that sneering and ridicule as a general style of discourse is usually unproductive, but as per Jefferson, it can sometimes be effective as a last resort when all attempts at reason fail and violence is considered an unacceptable option. Indeed, I believe that’s why we who aspire to be civil even so have always had, and usually admire satirists. :-)
I appreciate your comments Dr. Newquist. Your reference to Lincoln and Marxism brings to mind a recent book by Harold Holzer and Martin Garfinkle, “A Just and Generous Nation: Abraham Lincoln and the Fight for American Opportunity.” They argue that a prime motivation for Lincoln to enter the civil war was based on his economic philosophy.
While slavery and keeping the nation together were factors, the authors argue that Lincoln’s own writings show he was perhaps even more concerned with how the Southern plantation oligarchy worked against the opportunity of working people for economic advancement, which seems a Marxist idea.
They suggest that there is “overwhelming evidence that Lincoln focused his entire political career, in peace and war alike, in pursuit of economic opportunity for the widest possible circle of hardworking Americans. To achieve this ambition he was willing to fight a war to maintain the perpetual existence of the one nation in the world that held the highest promise for people dedicated to this cause.”
http://www.salon.com/2015/12/26/we_have_lincoln_wrong_our_greatest_lincoln_historian_explains_his_real_civil_war_motivations/
Thoughts?
Thus far into the conversation Marmorstein has discussed primarily leftist activists of the 60’s and 70’s and their impact, or lack there of, of today’s society. I get it.
However, we are in a different age and a different time and contemporary protests have evolved into something different.
If I’m correct, the only organization that would be deemed leftist is the Black Lives Matter movement.
Marmorstein has yet to discuss the very real impact of the tea party that took root after a black man was elected president. The tea party does have a history of racism, fascism, and idiocy.
In the past few days a bunch of anti-patriots are hold up in a small town in Oregon using weapons to take federal lands for their own selfish benefit. If any federal lands are returned to anyone, it should be to local tribes.
Marmorstein now claims that racial unrest is the fault of both republican and Democrats, I reject that notion as a cop out. By blaming Democrats for the racial divide Marmorstein can deny the racism of the republican party.
Dang it Roger,I was ready to declare a happy ending to this post and I like happy endings. I also agree with you about blaming Dems for attitudes towards Obama.
Exactly, Roger. One person’s discourse is another’s sermon.
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23YallQaeda&src=tyah&lang=en
Case in point about ridicule ^^^: “#yallQuaeda” is trending on Twitter. One tweet mentions that the members are staunch adherents to Shania Law. And Roger might like the one that says when the Oregon #yallQuaeda members get home, they’ll be surprised to find armed Indians have “peacefully” taken over their houses and are refusing to leave. Ah them dang internets. :-)
Shania is mine. This one I found quite useful and someone spoke of stuff like this earlier- KCW @SSideCardinal 4h4 hours ago
Wait, lemme get this straight they don’t recognize @POTUS authority but want him2 issue clemency? #YallQaeda #WHISIS
Perfect, Roger. A cop out. (If you have to explain what you’ve said, you’ve lost.)
It all comes down to moolah. http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2016/1/4/ethiopias-drought-ignored-as-aid-funneled-to-more-desperate-crises.html
Hold on: did chanting against LBJ’s killing of innocents make one a Marxist? Does protesting modern drone strikes and collateral damage make one an ISIS jihadist?
i hope not, Cory. Nor did the Quaker-led protests against Honeywell-developed weapons make the Quakers Vietcong supporters.
We’re up to 100 posts on this thread. We will make your 2016 top 25 list for sure.
Pretty good comment count, Art, and a healthy portion of them useful!
But the year is yet young. There’s no telling how many more big conversations will pop up in this exciting election year… and how many more columns you’ll provide that will require blogospheric analysis and correction.