Trump’s victory in 2016 shows that we should be careful about falling for foreign propaganda. But China’s Xinhua state news agency has produced a propaganda video mocking America’s response to the coronavirus that demonstrates just how easy Donald Trump makes it to ridicule the United States:
The Chinese aren’t the only ones laughing at America. Donald Trump is hurting America’s image every with his incompetence and his abdication of American global leadership:
But if Trump is ridiculous, his administration is invisible. Carl Bildt—a Swedish prime minister in the 1990s, a United Nations envoy during the Bosnian wars, and a foreign minister for many years after that—told me that, looking back on his 30-year career, he cannot remember a single international crisis in which the United States had no global presence at all. “Normally, when something happens”—a war, an earthquake—“everybody waits to see what the Americans are doing, for better or for worse, and then they calibrate their own response based on that.”
This time, Americans are doing … nothing. Or to be more specific, because plenty of American governors, mayors, doctors, scientists, and tech companies are doing things, the White House is doing nothing. There is no presidential leadership inside the United States; there is no American leadership in the world. Members of the G7—the U.S. and its six closest allies—did meet to write a joint statement. But even that tepid project ended in ludicrous rancor when the American secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, insisted on using the expression “Wuhan virus” and the others gave up in disgust. Not only is the president talking nonsense, not only is America absent, but the nation’s top diplomat is a caricature of a tough guy—someone who throws around insults in the absence of any capacity to influence events [Anne Applebaum, “The Rest of the World Is Laughing at Trump,” The Atlantic, 2020.05.03].
The world is laughing because they know that when Donald Trump wheezes, “America First!” they know that he is really frittering away America’s true strength, its reputation and its consistent leadership. Trump’s empty sloganeering and ridiculous pronouncements create a vacuum for China and other powers to fill. Even if we limit him to one term, Donald Trump may already have done enough damage to America’s reputation that the Russians won’t have to interfere in any more American elections. The Russians may have already achieved their goal: a world in which Chinese propaganda sounds more reliable than the White House… a world in which seven billion people and their leaders believe America last.
Trump 2020 America First- ilegals last
Great video! Stellar comments about the current lack of American presidential leadership. Tweeting is not leadership.
This Flightrader24 snapshot of departures from 9 major Chinese airports further shows Chinese reaction to containing COVID-19. https://howardlindzon.com/momentum-monday-stock-pickers-having-fun/ These data points add to the case that the US knew or should have known the extent of the virus and the Chinese reaction to it.
Here are a 3 links illuminating experiences (and our cultural blind spot) from the Spanish Flu.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2020/05/1918-pandemic-cultural-memory-literature-outka.html?via=taps_top
https://slate.com/technology/2019/02/spanish-flu-women-nurses-heroism.html
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/05/1918-flu-pandemic-nurse-letter.html
In a sad symptom of the Trump effect, someone using the pseudonym of Sam2 uses childish and cruel name-calling and labeling to proudly announce support of xenophobia and racism targeting decent people such as family members, friends, and neighbors who harm no one, but in the Trumpist view commit the horrendous offense of seeking nothing more than safety, security and freedom for their loved ones. No wonder Trump’s America is ridiculed.
And can’t even spell the name he wishes to call.
Sam, can anyone really cite “illegals” as a major problem compared to the destruction of American global leadership discussed above? Or compared to the coronavirus that Trump has failed to properly address?
We could build Berlin Walls and trenches and gun posts on both borders and shut down immigration forever, and we’d still have about as much prospect of being a trusted global ally as East Germany.
The Tangerine Tornado and his Administration are now falling back on the typical, irrelevant blame shame game tactics to try and deflect the ineptitude, incompetence, and gross leadership failure in this crisis by suggesting that 5 US Intelligence Agencies have determined that China deliberately covered up the seriousness and catastrophic effects of the virus in China in early January thereby delaying and hampering the rest of the worlds ability to deal with it……… His own briefing logs show he was duly notified in early January of events in China and he told the world it was nothing to worry about. Dilusional scum buckets. Nothing is ever said about the repetitive warnings given to the self-centered slob in his daily briefings in early January when there was time to react. Nothing is ever said about shipments of medical supplies and PPE sent to China early in the pandemic…. That is what conservative politics is…never acknowledge the potential for catastrophe, never plan for it, but rather wait until it happens and find something or someone to blame rather than stand up, think and take steps to remedy the problem before it gets so big you can’t remedy it with resources. Find somebody to blame or manufacture a 3 inch thick binder of excuses for something, wallow in your own pity, and flounder in confusion and passing the buck……. 60,000 deaths puts America in last place in this crisis and it’s never been first since that mental midget announced his inaugural event was the largest in history. He and his followers are extended a cordial invitation to journey to that legendary region of eternal fire. Anybody catch the RNC chairman in interview on ABC this morning… Where do they find these developmentally challenged tramps.
Rusty Guinn at Epsilon Theory created histories first draft of the blame for COVID-19.
https://www.epsilontheory.com/first-the-people/
Here’s what I wonder after reading the ugly comments of Sam2. Is the worldwide response to COVID-19 spell the end of American dominance, the end of globalism, the end of nation states, an upswing of Trump/Putin/Xi-style totalitarian regimes, descent into localized warlordism epitomized by splinter groups/extremist militias, or the beginning of a more globalized, democratic and egalitarian society?
It’s probably too early to tell, but Sam2’s effort to see this in a hyper-nationalistic and totalitarian frame seems to indicate his mindset. I have another, or maybe mine is just a different way.
Certainly the two dominant economic states, China and the United States, will come out of this damaged. China’s response after mid-January was exemplary, but its misplaced nationalism and face-saving resulted in a badly bungled outbreak in Wuhan, leading to the pandemic.
The United States also bungled their response, and continues over and over to bungle just about everything involved with COVID-19. As Cory indicates in his blog, no one trusts the US anymore. Our response under Trump has been Third World-like. We are a global joke, led by an incompetent clown.
China, at least, has leadership based on merit, and though they let nationalism sway their initial response, science and truth led them out of their pandemic. They will experience some ups and downs in COVID numbers, but they have good plans to deal with positives. The US has no plan, really, except what passes for the daily shifting delusions that come out of Trump tweets or his rear end at his press briefings. We are going down, severely down. China will surpass us once this is over. Perhaps if we get new leadership, we may be able to come back somewhat, but Trump, in putting America first, has resulted in putting America second.
All that assumes that the nation state system stays intact. China has enough internal cohesion and community spirit that it will likely survive, but I have no such hope for the US. Do you really want to live anywhere near the nutcases you see protesting to open up America? With our failing efforts to contain COVID-19, that is a James Jones-like suicide. Only cult members and Nazis are that enamored of death. Somehow we will need to round up the covidiots and put them in isolation. If the government can’t do it, I see us devolving into civil disorder, and America is lost. If the government does that, we have sunk to a perilous state near totalitarianism. For one, I’ll take a state that wants to survive, versus one that seeks to commit suicide, but then we have to get back to normal, whatever that may be. It won’t be pretty.
China hopes for 4 more years of trump and the rest of the motley crew like Sam2. The last thing China wants is to have a legitimate government in power here. Fear is that ag producers might finally be able to sell their products for what the products are worth. Man, you can’t have that or else farmers might get the idea that they need roads or road improvements and safer bridges to haul their products. Way to cheer on China Sam2, you’re pitch perfect. China is laughing all the way to the bank and says thanks!
The nation state of California arrested and disassembled mask less protesters protesting the lock down. Funny as hell to see it too, moar* (TM mfi) please. https://www.kiro7.com/news/trending/coronavirus-more-than-30-people-arrested-protests-california-capitol/4TRKAWGRGBHWRHXGZNOTVUEOU4/
Wear your masks and keep social distancing while protesting. The Israeli’s did a fine job of protesting the government in Israel and they did it with masks and social distancing to get their point across. Bravo to them for their efforts and for their safety concerns, Netanyahoo got the message.
It appears that I missed nothing at all by missing Sam2’s post. Good.
As for that video, ouch! Truth hurts.
I think states should take action like California did so that the protestors see that they must follow the law. I worry about how we’re supposed to live with the cultists too. Demented Donny will never be sane enough to convince them he was never more than a big, fat lie himself.
I think the law has to be tough on them so that they get it through their heads that they’re not special, not heroic, not patriotic. They need to know they’re simply petty criminals playing “army.”
Sam:
What do you mean by “Illegals” last? Ummmmm, not sure if my spelling is correct
Please elaborate!
I don’t want trump reelected, and I don’t know sam2, but it seems his apparent opinion is shared among about half of the country. Lots of folks think our country has a lot of economic and social problems that should receive attention rather than spending so much time and money on folks who dont follow the legal process for being in America legally.
I don’t necessarily agree with sam2 because his post didn’t exactly overwhelm me with content and reasoned analysis, but for those of you pretending not to understand what he meant, I thought I would help translate.
But frankly, to be completely honest, if you have to prioritize resources, it makes sense to favor the law abiding citizens rather than criminals or folks who aren’t citizens. I know some people who apparently think America has unlimited supplies of everything, so we should just give everything away…but none of those people have anything to sacrifice, so they’re merely asking everyone else to sacrifice. Funny how that works. It’s almost as if you could predict it.
drumpf has been the biggest law breaker when it comes to immigration rules.
now mike, this blog doesn’t allow what-about-isms. I’ve been told that several times when I raise valid counterpoints. Sorry, you can’t analogize here.
Ryan, sorry but I’m lost in your translation. What about the Trumpista criminals who are supposedly citizens, but who hate this country? They violate stay-at-home orders, thus making it likely they will kill someone through COVID-19. They carry weapons into a government building to intimidate citizens and officials and think they are heros. I’m much more likely to be infected and killed by them than by any immigrant. After all, the immigrants, not the Trumpista protestors, are doing the work that that racist Trump says is important to feed those white privileged Trumpistas. The lazy white men and women at those rallies could get a job in meat-packing rather than parading around with Nazi regalia and guns and placards and the flag of the country they hate and whining about not being able to go to work. If you want the truth, those Nazis should be deported, and those immigrants should immediately gain citizenship. I, as a white American who got here through a family that immigrated, have much more in common with the immigrants than with those low IQ, lazy white Trumpistas.
If I’m prioritizing resources I want the resources going to people who actually doing the hard work through this pandemic, health workers, food production workers, emergency personnel, not to fat ass white privileged protestors, who could be rushing to fill the jobs are meat packing plants, but instead sitting on their couches listening to Faux News.
Ryan’s statement above is really telling: “none of those people have anything to sacrifice,” Really? Really? What about their lives, and those of their loved ones just to feed your fat effing face, you putz?
Maybe we should have a clear path to immigration and not the threat of “if you don’t work the plant floor we can deport you”, for starters. Maybe if we had adequate housing for those workers and the plan that the Social Security and Medicare they are being charged, will actually be available for them. Maybe healthcare would be a reality so they can go to the doctor’s when they’re sick rather than dying on the job. How about a living wage? Politicians beat hell out of them because they know they cannot vote and if they could, that vote would be suppressed, it’s the American way now and always has been. These folks feed us and we treat them like dirt. They keep the prices down so you can stay at the motels and eat at the restaurants (not so much anymore). Real Americans don’t want those kinds of jobs. Real Americans want to oversee those kinds of jobs, they sure as hell don’t want to wallow in the pig crap of a CAFO. Whatever it is you want to call these great folks, I call them unsung hero’s.
Workers from all over the world don’t want to steal anything, they just want a better life for their children. Most know full well that they will never be able to take advantage of being an “American” because the minute they open their mouths, that accent gives them away. From that point on, the game is over. Their children are their hope, that is their Social Security. Love is funny like that.
Wow donald. I don’t think you are lost in my translation. I think you didn’t read or didn’t comprehend my comment and you want to pick a fight with me about unrelated issues, then presume my position on those unrelated issues, and then attack me personally.
sam2 made a vague and inarticulate controversial statement. Several people inquired what he meant by his statement. I prefaced my comment with my lack of personal knowledge of sam2 as well as my lack of support for trump. I then said in plain language what I thought sam2 meant, but I said I don’t agree with sam2 because I don’t know what he actually, subjectively meant.
In my final paragraph, I gave my thoughts regarding allocations of finite resources. In a world where there is only so much to go around, difficult choices must be made. I certainly have nothing against people wanting to come to America from all over the world for any number of reasons, but I was giving my take on the issue that sam2 apparently raised, which is rationing of limited resources among two groups – people with legal permission to be here and people without legal permission to be here. You seemed angry about the people I know who have nothing to sacrifice in favor of others. The context, I thought, made it obvious that I meant financial resources to sacrifice. I was specifically referring to people I know who contribute a net negative to society financially while also calling for sacrifice from others to achieve what they think is fair for citizens and non-citizens alike. This is why I used the words “I know some people who…” because I do indeed know some people who appear to have those thoughts.
All of your nonsense about the idiot protesters and the jobs that they could fill if you were the boss of the world is out of place in your ignorant rant to me. I almost certainly agree with you that those people are dangerous and stupid. I disagree that they should be deported because I believe in due process, but you don’t strike me as the type to have rational responses to things.
Let me be perfectly clear: I think your bitter anger at me about something you misunderstood, and then your wild and unreasonable response to my opinions and that actions of people you disagree with, makes you as dangerous to a civilized society as those people with guns marching on state buildings. The similarities are numerous.
jerry, that was quite the list of radical leftist talking points there. Your identity politics and ideology are scary, man.
Many “real americans” work the jobs you mentioned. There are a lot more blue collar “real americans” with difficult manual labor jobs of all types than people who you would apparently call “not real americans.” You watch too much tv if you think people born in this country are above hard work that gets their hands dirty. There are more working poor white people in this country than any other demographic. You are playing this naive game of “all americans are lazy and need immigrant labor so they can remain on their pedestals” and “everyone who comes into this country is a hero regardless of actual behavior.” That point of view is just as ignorant as radical right wingers who think all immigrants are criminals. Neither are even close to correct; both positions equally ignore the tragically wonderful nuances of reality.
If you really believe that the price of burger at the store or pork chops or chicken would be the same with Real Americans working those lines or the price of the motel rooms or the price of anything else would be the same without undocumented workers or workers with the H2b status? Please man, my leg is long enough, stop pulling it.
Also, what would be wrong with a legitimate immigration policy and one that puts these workers into a stronger status than saying if you don’t risk your lives, we will deport you? How American in your world.
jerry… you are literally making up both sides of this conversation. I said nothing about the price of pork chops. I would rather see goods and services cost more money to provide living wages for workers, but it sounds like you are happy to support a system that keeps your chicken fried steak under $5 as long as you can pretend to be a champion of the working poor by showering them with your pity.
Also, there’s nothing making anybody of any citizenship status work any jobs. People make choices. Some people have more choices than others, but we all have choices. There are several nurses in my family currently risking their lives to do their jobs. They aren’t going to work because it’s their passion or because they are afraid of deportation, but because they have bills to pay and families to support. I have friends in the army. I have a buddy who is a prison guard. Those jobs are a lot more dangerous than most low-wage blue collar jobs that you are talking about. Every one of these people made choices based on the situations they were in, their priorities, their abilities, and many other variables. I believe we should have a supportive society that helps people who help themselves. I do not think all rich people deserve to be rich and I do not think all immigrants should kiss america’s collective butt. However, not all wealthy people hate immigrants and not all immigrants are good people. There are good and bad in all walks of life. Like I said, your point of view is just as wrong as the radical right. Reality is in the middle.
Ryan, if I didn’t understand your translation, I regret the error. I’m not interested in the translation of the selfishness and inhumanity of Sam2 or any of that ilk. But I’ll make a stab at it and start off with “America First,” a phrase used by the pro-Nazi sympathizers and isolationists in the US who doomed European Jews trying to emigrate to America to the gas chamber. That’s about as far as you need to go in translation.
Donald, I think genocide is terrible, too. I think what the nazis did was disgusting. I think one of the problems these days is lazy communication. When sam2 says America First, he might mean one thing, and other people might think he means something else entirely. Maybe he means he supports killing immigrants. That would be quite bad. Maybe he supports closing our borders. That would be bad, too. Or maybe he means that we need to get our house in order before we pat ourselves on the back for playing save-the-world. That’s not as bad. If the resources we have in the US are finite, which they are, should we allocate those resources in a way that favors anybody in particular, or should our resources be available to all humans on earth? If you take the position that we need to allocate resources in some way, which I think is a smart position to take, then you have to start separating people into groups for the allocations. A pretty good place to start is allocating some resources to “americans” and some to “the rest of the world.” Now, how we define americans can certainly be up for discussion because it’s not an easy term to define and like I said, I support immigration to the US and I think we should support the people who want to come here and be a part of this country. However, once we figure out who is the “us” and who is the “them” I think it makes sense to allocate more of “our” resources to “us” than to “them.”
Ryan’s comment raises two points, one unsupported by actual facts and the second merely a dog whistle for xenophobia and/or racism.
First, the idea that we should not take resources away from citizens and give these resources to immigrants sounds good but is factually flawed in the premise, namely, that by helping immigrants we have to deny help to citizens. Maybe some day that might be a valid argument, but until I see us cutting back on Donald Trump’s golf course trips, fantasy military parades, political rallies costing local tax dollars, fireworks displays, not to mention military waste and whatever other wasteful spending and use of our country’s resources we engage in, the idea that we should give immigrants in need lower priority than others in need to save resources is bogus.
Second the idea that law abiding people should have priority sounds great, but that doesn’t seem to be the effect of Ryan’s position. Rather, as Donald points out, Ryan apparently (correct me if I am wrong Ryan) ranks citizens who commit equal, worse, or more dangerous and harmful crimes than immigrants above immigrants. Immigrants attacked with labels like “illegals” generally have either crossed the border without papers, which is a class 2 victimless misdemeanor, or overstayed a Visa or other authorization to be in the country, which is not even a crime, only a victimless civil law violation.
If Ryan included everyone committing victimless misdemeanors or civil violations in deciding who should have priority in getting help, then his argument would make more sense. Likewise, the “criminals deserve less” argument doesn’t support calling only immigrants “illegals” as favored by Sam2 and most everyone else who uses derogatory labels that harm and diminish good people with xenophobic or racist childish junior-high name-calling.
bcb – i didn’t say anything like “we should not take resources away from citizens and give these resources to immigrants.” I said pretty much the exact opposite when I said “I support immigration to the US and I think we should support the people who want to come here and be a part of this country.” The truth is, resources are indeed finite, so when resources are allocated, either those allocations are equal or not equal among individuals. I think unequal allocations of american resources is fair when it comes to favoring “americans” because there are a lot fewer americans than not-americans. And, before I’m attacked for that opinion, I absolutely include some immigrants into this definition of americans.
I try not to use the word “illegals” because so many people are offended by it, but do you honestly think there should be no legal process for individuals from foreign countries who wish to live here? There has to be a legal process for a hundred reasons. So, my opinion of allocation of resources among “americans” includes people who want to follow the legal process to be americans. I don’t take for granted how fortunate I was to be born in a free country and to enjoy the benefits of that, and I certainly don’t think other people who just happened to be born somewhere else should be denied the opportunity to live here and enjoy the benefits of this country. If you want to talk about how easy or difficult it is to be here legally, I’m all for that conversation. I really don’t know what the process is – it’s probably quite difficult, and I would probably support making legal immigration easier and more efficient. But that is not the point of this conversation. The point is merely this – is it wrong to put “americans” first in our political policies? I don’t think it’s wrong, and I don’t think having that mentality requires being xenophobic or racist. There are certainly xenophobic and racist people who share some of my beliefs, but that doesn’t mean the belief requires it. Those people are an annoying distraction, just like people on the far left who damage liberal positions by being too extreme. There are crazies on both sides that attempt to ruin the value of truth and moderation.
And your attempt at construing my comment to compare illegal immigration to other minor domestic crimes is silly. I have said over and over that within all walks of life, there are good people and bad people. There are plenty of americans who will benefit from this country and provide nothing. There are plenty of americans who will give more than they receive. That’s just the truth of the bell curve, man. We have too many laws to base the allocation of resources on “whether or not a person has ever committed any crime.” That’s ludicrous and has nothing at all to do with what I am talking about.
China is still ridiculing our backwards ways. Now trump says that 100,000 deaths is cool with him. Then it will be 150,000 and then 200,000 and then, who knows. These deaths are all on him. He is the cause of it and he could’ve done something instead of worrying about the Diamond Princess and the raise of numbers of infected.
We had a legal system for allowing people to come here called asylum, which drumpf trashed and disposed of. drumpf is the law breaker, as I said before. He is still detaining children and sending covid positive people back home, but, I di-what about isms-gress.
Ryan said: “…the point is merely this – is it wrong to put “americans” first in our political policies?” Well, now that’s a question that really depends on the policy doesn’t it. Let’s consider opening up America to businesses in a manner that is not supported by good science. Is that putting America first?
Opening up America too early affects all Americans, and immigrants as well. But Trump isn’t ordering his cult to go into work in death factories, is he? No, he’s giving immigrants the American “opportunity” to be slaves and die, while his privileged supporters get to sit on their couches and watch the holocaust unfold on TV. Now, who is getting put first by these policies? Those immigrants get to collect a paycheck even though they get to die for Trump. They can, maybe, pay for their funeral. Thanks for your service. On the other hand we have the couch potato Americans, who rouse themselves to wave Nazi flags and guns around at protests to “open America back up.” They view it all as entertainment, at best and a way to kill off minorities and potential future Democratic voters, at worst. Who is more American here? Whose values do you honor? Who, really, is “American,” and who are, well, Nazis?
And let’s take immigrants out. Let’s limit this to just American citizens. What about the fact the American minorities are dying from COVID-19 in greater proportion than their population? What about the fact that opening for business will kill more Americans, especially citizens of color, elders and people who don’t have the luxury of their economic position and race to sit on couches in expansive suburban homes and tsk, tsk about liberating other people to go to work and die for them?
I’d say the real issue here is why real Americans don’t join hands with immigrants and drown the slave masters and murderers.
Donald Pay said, “I’d say the real issue here is why real Americans don’t join hands with immigrants and drown the slave masters and murderers.”
That’s exactly the real issue here. Jim Hightower said it best.
“Politics is not Left v. Right. It’s Top v. Bottom.”
That’s a fact.
We have enough resources for everyone. The problem is the Top is hoarding way more than their fair share. In 2010 Gov. Mark Dayton won his first term in Minnesota by running on a tax increase! His slogan? “The rich must pay their fair share.” That completely resonated with a good majority of us.
I’d like to see more Democratic candidates run with the slogan that the rich, including corporate, must contribute their fair share. I think it would be a winner.
Now Morning Joe Scarborough has said trump is unfit and needs to step aside. Good advise for this madman who has drug the United States to the point of ridicule and pity. Worth a listen as it’s true and gonna be getting worse by the day. https://crooksandliars.com/cltv/2020/05/joe-scarborough-tells-trump-take-some
We’re watching what Rounds and Thune and the rest of the senate republicans have given us. The most corrupt band of misfits ever to walk the halls of Washington. Thanks trumpian republicans for Mourning in America.
This isn’t news to most of us here, but it’s more support for what Don and I are saying about the real conflict of top v bottom.
is.gd/cElSQ7
I don’t remember where I saw a comment accusing any women who aren’t jumping on the Tara Reade bandwagon of hypocrisy, so I’ll just leave this here. It’s my answer.
is.gd/SIQFBd
Thanks Debbo, EB5 Rounds and Thune are stealing us blind. They are the masters of their mastering at the pork trough for themselves and their masters. They have stolen so much that it’s impossible to defeat them politically. Man, when you open the flood gates of money in South Dakota politics, you don’t even need to have an idea, just tell people you do, over and over and over again.
Ryan, perhaps my comment wasn’t very clear, but it was never intended to be about you personally. Rather it was intended to address two arguments that too many folks use and appeared to me to be repeated in your earlier comments. I appreciate you clarifying your personal position and I would encourage readers to judge you only based on what you write, not what I write.
Your response suggests that perhaps you agree with much of my response to these two arguments. And you add some interesting thoughts to the mix. The following response of mine again is intended only to address some of the points that I have understood your comment to make or ask (which I freely admit could be misunderstandings on my part).
You ask “do you honestly think there should be no legal process for individuals from foreign countries who wish to live here?” I am not sure where you got that idea, as I don’t recall making any such statement nor implying that to be my viewpoint. I fully support the concept of “legal process” for that purpose. But I do not support using that process to deny needed help for medical or survival needs. Rather, that process should be designed to make such help readily accessible to those in need.
It is true that our resources are “theoretically” limited. When I point out the fact that these “theoretical” limits do not currently nor in the foreseeable future justify denying some people help based on where they happen to have been born, or their race or immigration status, I am basing this on what I believe to be the fact we do have more than sufficient resources for this purpose. Likewise, virtually every credible study on the subject I have read seems to indicate that immigrants, undocumented or not, add to our resources rather than drain them.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/09/are-immigrants-drain-government-resources/571582/
If I have my facts right that makes the “limited resource” argument a bogus argument.
Moreover, even if I am mistaken about whether we have more than sufficient resources currently at our disposal to help immigrants, the moral implications of treating one person’s life and health as less valuable than another person’s life and health based on the assessment of where they happen to have been born through no choice of their own and then crossed a completely man-made artificial line in the sand without papers or didn’t comply with a civil rule after arriving with papers, or that there are fewer people in any favored group than the group denied equal access to resources necessary to protect health and life, strikes me as troubling from a moral standpoint. I will concede, however, that at least taking that position of favoring one group over another based on such relatively arbitrary and harmless distinctions does not rely on a false factual premises about whether we have sufficient resources available.
You ask, “is it wrong to put “americans” first in our political policies?” In this particular discussion this again seems to be a factually flawed question as it seems to be premised on the idea that using nationality to rank whether to assist a sick or needy person is required.
In some cases, however, particular political policies certainly merit putting U.S. citizens 1st. For example, it seems very appropriate to put U.S. citizens 1st, and exclude non-citizens, when it comes to the political policy of electing our Country’s leaders.
Voting is a political policy quite different in substance than the policy of preserving and protecting the life and health of people in need. Similarly, many of the political policies enshrined in our Bill of Rights limit our government from infringing on liberty of everyone, not just U.S. citizens.
You objected to my comment stating that “your attempt at construing my comment to compare illegal immigration to other minor domestic crimes is silly.” For what it is worth, this came from your statement “it makes sense to favor the law abiding citizens rather than criminals. . . .” I read this to be referring to the concept of some folks’ lame excuse for calling a particular group of people, i.e., immigrants, “illegals.” They typically have tried to justify the name-calling based on the misdemeanor and civil transgressions I previously described. I am glad to have you state that is not what you intended with your comment. In my view there are too many who see it differently.
I guess I will try to bridge what I see as the gap of understanding of the issue. I completely agree that some immigrants are net positives to society, and I agree that some people born here are net drains. This “unlimited resource” game several of you mention is hypothetical at best. Medicare and Medicaid have limited dollars. Social Security has limited dollars. State programs and federal programs alike have limited dollars. Because those dollars are limited, everyone who wants them can’t have them. So, how do we allocate those dollars?
If a starving person from another continent emails our stupid governor to ask for money to buy food, should she cut that person a check from our state funds? Of course not, even though that person needs help. So that means the line is not drawn by whether or not a person needs help. Many people need help and we can’t give them all money without going broke over night. So, we need a process to keep the fund replenishing itself, so as many people as possible have a healthy life full of possibilities. That process of replenishing funds, for the most part, is taxation. Now, there are many conversations that could be had over what is a fair tax system, but I think most people would agree that to benefit from the system’s dollars, you should be along for the whole ride, including taxes and selective service registration. In my opinion, if somebody avails himself to the burdens of our country, they should gain the benefits as well. This means I believe people who commit minor crimes or fail to cross a T on some immigration paperwork should not be deported or denied the same rights and benefits of other “americans” for something so trivial. However, if a person is intentionally unknown to “the system” and intentionally evades the responsibility of taxes and civil society because those efforts are too burdensome, and he just wants benefits without costs, that person should expect nothing. Certainly, if the particular resource being allocated in this hypothetical is more than enough to satisfy the needs (and wants, to be honest) of our country, we could and should help those in need around the world, but not until then.
So, what I am saying is this: people who want to be a part of the system should get to be part of the system, but you get the good with the bad. People who want only benefits and to hide from responsibility should be considered only after the first group is well taken care of. So, in allocating resources, that line is the line I would draw.
Although I wouldn’t champion the statement and I think the phrase has a lot of negative baggage, “America First – Illegals Last” at least doesn’t apparently exclude foreigners, per se. So maybe Sam2 wants lots and lots of foreigners here, he just wants them to comply with the legal process that bcb and I agree is necessary.
China ridicules corrupt capitalism and we’re not even trying to hide it.
Meanwhile, Corporate Wall Street continues to lay off workers while collecting huge bonus’s on them to keep the fake Stock Market up and bleeding out. It’s all corruption all the time now. No wonder NOem wants in on the grift in Washington. There’s millions to be made while the suffering continues.
“Since the coronavirus pandemic was declared, Caterpillar has suspended operations at two plants and a foundry, Levi Strauss has closed stores and toolmaker Stanley Black & Decker is planning layoffs and furloughs.
Steelcase, the office furniture manufacturer, and World Wrestling Entertainment have also both shed employees.
While thousands of their workers are filing for unemployment benefits, these companies rewarded their shareholders with more than $700 million in cash dividends. They are not alone. As the pandemic squeezes big companies, executives are making decisions about who will bear the brunt of the sacrifices, and in at least some cases, workers have been the first to lose, even as shareholders continue to collect.” Washington Post 5.5.2020
While we continue the downward slide both health wise and economically, trump, EB5 Rounds and Thune, along with the rest of the corrupt republican senate, continue to let the corruption go unabated. Billions to prop up the corrupted Wall Street and natta for Main Street.