Representative Fred Deutsch (R-4/Florence) may be keeping the Legislature off of the football field, but he may push the Legislature further into the medical field to promote his theocratic agenda. According to the November 2019 Legislator Update from the Legislative Research Council, Rep. Deutsch attended the Heritage Foundation’s “Summit on Protecting Children from Sexualization” in Washington, D.C. on October 9. The event purported an interest in “preserv[ing] parental rights [and] freedom of conscience,” but the one issue Rep. Deutsch thinks would be good here in South Dakota is another whack at transgender rights:
Representative Deutsch said an idea or solution discussed at the meeting that could benefit South Dakota was to establish legislation to criminalize doctors that provide sex change operations in children [LRC, “Legislator Update—November 2019,” p. 9].
We have people dying of opioid addiction, more children left uninsured by Trumpism, big hospitals charging Uncle Sam for improper procedures, nursing homes and rural hospitals struggling to stay open because of our policy choices… and Rep. Fred Deutsch wants the Legislature to get on his anti-trans hobbyhorse and throw doctors in jail for working with parents to act in the medically diagnosed interests of their children? Grrrr—get ready for another Session spent not solving real problems.
Fred, you’re a legislator and a chiropractor, not a doctor. Let’s leave medicine to medical doctors… and parenting to parents.
Chiropractors are often in a state of subconscious jealousy of real, medical doctors. Things like this, telling doctors what they can’t do, (e.g. Assisting with women’s rights and parental rights) manifest too frequently in those who couldn’t get through medical school, themselves. Deutsch is an unstable character with a grandiose sense of self-entitlement.
As Cory noted, there are real public issues that the lege needs to address, but the SDGOP seems determined to intrude on South Dakotans private lives. They’ll determine the size of your family and how you manage your children’s medical needs. Ridiculous!
Thought the Republicans didn’t want the government to interfere in people’s lives?
What do real experts have to say about denying children their identities? Kids aren’t like drumpf who just woke up one day and decided he would make the best Potus because he is really, really not all there.
OMG, are all of you this stupid? Please tell me that you’re not okay with parents having their kids go through sex change surgery, hormones or whatever???? Please tell me you haven’t all gone off the deep cliff that much please.
Freddie is right on this one. Kids have to wait til 21 to drink 18 to smoke (legally) they can wait for sex change also.
Way to go Freddie
But parents can still choose to not have children immunized right? Parents still retain the power to put society in danger with bad medical decisions based on bad science. That’s an “appropriate” exercise of parental medical choice on children?
I wonder if there is similar want to step in to prohibit parents putting children into conversion (sexual orientation) therapy.
Sam2 – If a kid has suicidal or homicidal thoughts should they wait until they’re an adult to see a mental health professional?
Pearson – People who call others stupid are projecting their opinions of themselves onto others.
kooks abound, Steve, kooks abound
I remain totally unconvinced people should have these operations at an early age. I’ve read more stories of regrets, surgical reversals, and how commonly many of these kids get comfortable with their sex later on. Again I think this comes from society’s view that things must be binary (why should they be?), and while you think you’re being caring and tolerant, you’re just essentially saying here is the binary path for you to follow and you’ll feel comfortable when you fit into how we see the world. But I think there are just people who, if society didn’t judge them so harshly could be happy with themselves as they were born. Nothing at all is preventing them from seeking counseling although today’s counselors would probably push them into early sex change. Remember how many times psychology has been wrong. It’s puritanical. Cut yourself up and alter your body so you fit into our rigid view of the world. For different reasons, you’re just as wrong as they are in my mind.
Here’s the thing. Babies are born with ambiguous genitalia all the time all across the country, all across the planet. Babies are also born with both female and male genes. The X and Y aren’t all that clear cut.
If you’re imagining some guy saying, “Hey, you know what? I think I’ll get a sex change operation so I can run track against women!” think again. There has never been one single recorded instance of that happening.
Babies are born with ambiguous genitalia. The parents freak. Doc says, “I can do a little surgery and make this a girl. She’ll never know.” Except they do know and feel like a fake freak, suicidal, vulnerable to addictions, etc. They start living as the gender they’re supposed to be and their lives improve greatly.
The parents and doctors thought they were doing the right thing. They’re beginning to learn that it’s best to wait because the child knows at an early age. It’s best to do the surgery pre-puberty for obvious reasons.
That’s what transsexualism is about. I’m not trans, but I’m fortunate to know people who are. I’ve also read reputable literature to determine what’s factual. The whole trans thing creeped me out at first, till I did my research. Nothing scary about it.
I agree with HC that if the person does not want any surgery, that should be their choice too.
I agree with HC and Debbo. However, that’s no reason to legislate against it. Especially by a legislature full of bohunks that have no medical school.
So just let that ambiguousness grow and mature. Psychologists also thought it was completely cultural, that sex was nothing but upbringing, but they were wrong. The well known story is of the twins born male one lost his penis at an early age so they made him a girl. He committed suicide. Don’t mess with nature. Transsexualism is a person who emotionally and psychologically feels that they belong to the opposite sex, not one who was altered without their permission. But still, young people especially grow out of this, or even if they don’t, sexuality and compatibility is complicated, so why not just support these people and let them find their way. Into the arms of another transgender, into the arms of an openminded bisexual, or whatever. Without pressure, they need to be allowed to grow into whoever they will become.
Right HC, except for this:
“But Transsexualism is a person who emotionally and psychologically feels that they belong to the opposite sex, not one who was altered without their permission.”
You’re wrong. If you have a source to support your statement, please share it. Otherwise, you’re creating a distinction that doesn’t exist. Why?
Steve, do you enter every conversation by shouting an insult?
Sam2: the analogy to drinking and smoking is false. Parents can serve their own children an alcoholic beverage. Smoking and drinking are also not medical procedures that doctors discuss with parents as potential treatments for their children.
Hap, I missed the part of your comment where you justified legislative action to interfere in medical decisions.
Smoking and drinking only stick with you for a little while, sort of as a stench, while this cutting of parts seems a pretty permanent thing. One questions if perhaps the legal age of getting one’s bones cracked without a medical doctor’s note shouldn’t be 21.
Good Christ, yes! Allow the Douche to stem the near-to-overwhelming tide of sex-(re)assignment surgery among babies and toddlers. It might keep him from meddling in stuff that actually requires thought.
CIRD, I imagine it is overwhelming available medical personnel and facilities.
In the meantime, a busy Rapid City developer, Hani Shafai, has sound ideas for important issues Deutsch and the SDGOP really need to invest their time and legislative energy in.
“We’re very conservative. We don’t take any chances. We’re very low risk-takers as a state so we’re not willing to invest in our people as much as we should,” he said. “We have to start businesses that will capture our graduates and keep them in our state. We can’t wait for them to start their own businesses. We have to create those businesses that fit the human resources that we are producing.”
is.gd/Nr4FvN
Have South Dakotans alwaysBeen this nasty? Have they always Obsessed over what’s in someone’s pants?
Jenny. Yes.
I know what Transsexualism is the point remains 7-year-olds have not matured. Their brain will keep changing the last source I heard most of these kids will grow up to accept their born body parts though they might be homosexual. As people like to joke when they were 7 they thought they were a dinosaur or a superhero. So why is a law necessary? Cause we have overeager psychiatrists and psychologists who are willing to permanently alter children. As much as I endorse therapy they pretty much destroyed my mother in the 1950s with strong electroshock treatments over and over and over. They had no idea what they were doing, they were just experimenting on the masses seeking treatment for depression using strong current which basically destroyed parts of the brain. No, you ain’t never gonna get me to condone permanent changes on children who have brains that have many years left to mature. And don’t just trust these people they’ve proven time and again they are reckless. You can do your own search for Discredited Psychological Treatments they sounded just dandy at the time but destroyed lives. Lobotomy anyone??? Be cautious do not harm, but no, we’re just lab rats to a lot of these head shrinkers.
Anyone – how common is it for seven year olds to get a sex change operation? Is it rare? Let’s get facts please.
Why can’t South Dakotans just leave the LGBTQ alone. For god’s sakes, just leave them alone, quit being bullies! Remember, bullies bear a lot of the responsibilities for the skyhigh suicide rates amongst this vulnerable group. So it will probably pass and the Ice Queen will sign it. Billie Sutton would veto this mean hate bill.
Jenny, it happened once in Sioux Falls and it caused such a Republican knee jerk that the majority leader is still paying the dentist.
OK. Let’s hypothetically agree with HapCamp. Who’s qualified to write a constitutional law covering the prohibition of sex reassignment surgery to minors? Are Republicans in Pierre going to hire a group of doctors and a group of lawyers to meet (probably several times) to draft legislation, concur on proposed legislation, pay constitutional experts to certify such a proposal and submit their “hate stroking” desires to the committee in charge of the task?
Or are they, like so many unconstitutional examples from previous emotional comfort laws, just going to let an overzealous, underqualified, and doctor hating chiropractor copy something from a political action group somewhere, far from South Dakota, and hope no one like Cory takes them to court, again?
It is likely a real possibility that some kids actually need medical treatment, even surgery, based on gender dysphoria. The problem with this legislative effort is that it apparently fails to take into account an individual’s circumstances.
And acknowledging that “overeager psychiatrists and psychologists” certainly can make mistakes, what limits this to gender issues necessitating such legislation? Why not prohibit all medical treatment for conditions when there is a possibility of a mis-diagnosis, mistake or causing harm?
Along with Jenny’s observations, some SD legislators appear to have an unhealthy obsession with all things gender related. It seems over the top to think that legislators who have never met a child, have not reviewed the child’s medical history or background, somehow intuitively know in all cases more that the child’s medical professionals and parents about that child’s individual medical needs.
Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
OK Jenny, if not sex change as Porter acknowledged has happened, some want to give drugs to young kids, or simply what about the psychological harm that comes from insisting they need a new label. Case in point the national story from yesterday link below. As you read you might think the mother must be right, but these are just kids, and don’t forget all the false motives that can come from sick parents like Munchausen syndrome by proxy. The poor child is caught between a mother who insists the male is transgender but the dad who says he isn’t, and that the child displays no such behavior around him. This is gonna cause long-standing harm. Why is it necessary to label young children anything, let alone Transgender? We keep learning till our dying day but especially this young, or even in their teens, kid’s ideas of who they are keep changing. Heck, throughout adulthood we keep redefining ourselves. I just don’t understand the need for these labels I get you want to relieve pain but the cure could easily be worse than the disease. His attorney says “These parents can’t even agree if their child is a boy or a girl” hello that’s the problem let the kid grow up. The rest of the article about affirming it’s ok to be whatever you are is sensible.
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/texas-mom-and-dad-locked-in-battle-over-childs-gender-identity-what-happens-when-parents-disagree-195127670.html
I think it’s probably wise to keep in mind that what gets published in the media is what seems most sensational, most likely to sell ads and get clicks. Deutsch knows that too, so he’s playing off it here for attention grabbing headlines.
HC, you’re citing exceptions to the norm of the child telling the parent what their gender is by words, actions, etc. In those exceptions care needs to be taken and perhaps outside authorities need to be involved. Deutsch’s blanket law is too general and he’s too uninformed.
The critical point remains Transgenders are NOT THE OTHER SEX just cause they think they are Gender Dysphoria was renamed in the DSM to remove the stigma associated with the term disorder.
Let’s say tomorrow I woke up and believed I was Cory Heidelberger. It might cause me great distress because others didn’t believe I was Cory Heidelberger, but my believing I was Cory wouldn’t make me Cory. Would it? I didn’t magically get his DNA, but let’s say this caused me such distress that people allowed, or even encouraged me to change my name. OK. But what if I wanted to start getting surgery to look like Cory Heidelberger. Should that wait until I was an adult? Should it even be allowed?
Or, what if a child thought they were African American like Rachel Dolezal? Should we allow them to change their name and add skin pigments? Should they be allowed to “transition” and become a black person? They ain’t gonna become a black person, are they?
It’s interesting that feminist Germaine Greer has been viciously attacked for not accepting Transgender women as women. Well. THEY’RE NOT WOMEN!!! I haven’t seen her say anything derogatory about them and is sympathetic to their situation, but they’re just not women and guess what I’m not Cory Heidelberger just cause I think I am.
It’s a disorder this is why we have to protect children. You want to change plumbing to make them happy but you seem to be forgetting they aren’t the other sex. Nothing is going to make them the other sex. No amount of drugs or surgery or let’s pretend otherwise is going to change that. For the sake of mental health we can pretend though, that’s what you’re asking us to do. Pretend: speak and act so as to make it appear that something is the case when in fact it is not.
Steve Pearson, what some of us think is that there doesn’t need to be a law passed against something every time the Christian Right gets excited about someone who has an issue that doesn’t fit into their Christian Right world–especially by a legislative body such as ours that doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
Here’s a little something to keep uptight wingnuts up all night every night…..
The slime mold, Physarum polycephalum, also has almost 720 sexes, can move without legs and heals itself in two minutes if cut in half. “The blob is a living being which belongs to one of nature’s mysteries,” said Bruno David, director of the Paris Museum of Natural History, of which the Zoological Park is part.Oct 17, 2019
Now you gotta watch 720 bathrooms at once. Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Try sticking yer noses in someone else’s business.
I’ll tell you another thing that causes long-lasting harm, hc. That’s growing up transgender and never telling anyone because the person thinks they’re the crazy one. Most children, transgender included, know if they are boy or girl by the time they’re three or four. Growing up without telling anyone or even understanding what’s wrong with the self leads to an adult with PTSD.
Transgender is real. We’re just learning. No laws need apply. DNA notwithstanding, nature sometimes makes mistakes. All you have to do to know that’s true is look around you, outside of who you are and what you have always believed.
That’s really funny Mike.
HC, the science simply says you’re wrong. It’s clear that you have very strong feelings about the issue of gender dysphoria and plenty of opinions about how the process of recognizing it came about.
Again, your opinions and anecdotal evidence do not supersede established scientific studies conducted with 1000s of subjects over years of time.
A disorder is not a sign that the issue itself is “bad.” It often indicates that society’s response to the issue is the problem that the individual has to deal with. It is society’s poor behavior that causes the symptoms the individual suffers.
Consider lesbian, gay and bisexual people. They were once considered disordered because they’re not heterosexual. They were designated as “the problem.” Their higher rates of suicide, self harm and addiction were due to their “choice” to become homosexual, something they frequently decided very young. Parents were frequently counseled that it was just a phase the child would get over.
Transexualism/gender dysphoria is on the same track and mostly the same people are saying basically the same things about them they said about LBG people.
Same song, second verse, same as the first.
Robin, I’m completely agree about being open and honest. Not every Transgender has dysphoria or the unease which comes from the disorder. It is a disorder however that the mind doesn’t relate to their given body. I think it was a mistake to change the DSM. There’s nothing wrong with having a disorder. We all have disorders. It’s about healthy ways of coping with those disorders. Surgical change however isn’t necessarily a healthy way. Self acceptance would be a better way for both parents and society to say you’re just fine the way you are. Everyone is a little bit jumbled up. You’re just absolutely fine the way you are, a loving caring person, let it go at that, and allow people to continue to grow and change.
Deb, I didn’t read your last post before posting, so I think we can still agree, but biological facts are still facts. Remember, I’m the queer one around here, but there is a difference between gay and transgender. Gay people are attracted to their same sex. Transgenders think they have the opposite sex from their chromosomes and the plumbing in which they were born. Are they wrong? Yes, biologically, but we can still completely accept that emotionally they think they are the other sex, but they aren’t. I’m black and my name is Cory!!! My new name is Cory Black.
I didn’t have anything to say about changing the DSM and I don’t really care what the DSM calls it. Having worked with children all my adult life and also with some adult transgenders, I am proud to say I know them. I don’t share your distrust (contempt?) for mental health workers.
And if age is all we are talking about, then, yes, great caution should be urged. But it’s also true that puberty is the hardest time for them and causes the most trauma to their minds and bodies, so time is of the essence. I agree with much that you say. But don’t throw law mixed with religion into the mix. That only exacerbates and aggravates problems.
Yes, there is a difference between gay and transgender. And intersex is a third issue. If the child has ambiguous genitalia, that is intersex. I agree with Debbo, don’t do anything right away. You can’t decide what the gender of the child is. The child will tell you as he/she grows. Transgenders are born with normal boy or girl genitalia.
National Geographic Mag did an excellent issue on gender a few months back, for those who wish to know more than they currently are so sure of.
Well, they fried my mother’s brain, so yeah, I will remain skeptical about Clinical Psychiatry. Much less so about the counselors who simply want to help, especially Talk Therapy, but those people up high tend to set the agenda, and the courses we take, etc.
I’m very sorry about your mother, hc. Another thing we know little to not enough about is menopausal psychological problems which are hormonal and probably transitory and should be handled with kid gloves and given a chance to resolve instead of the mental institution. Same thing happened to my great grandmother, spent the rest of her life in a mental institution. Don’t know if that’s your mother’s case or not, but yes, there are horror stories. We have so much to learn.
HC, I think you ought to read the article Robin linked to. Genitalia, hormones and gender don’t always match up.
I don’t want to be bitter, but reflective. Our mother had severe hormonal changes after giving birth which is very common, but all those electric shock treatments left our family forever changed. This is why I am very cautious about allowing dramatic therapeutic methods. I remember all those trips to Yankton and the gossiping church ladies. Our mother was never the same. As you say much would have worked out naturally or from our current understanding of hormones. And too, many of these gender issues will be worked out through maturation.
Deb I don’t see no link. Do you really think I don’t know things don’t always match up? We are all a sort of mix of things.
“Do you really think I don’t know things don’t always match up?”
“The critical point remains Transgenders are NOT THE OTHER SEX just cause they think they are.”
You said both those quotes. It sure sounds to me that you’re insisting that even if an individual states they are not the sex that matches their genitalia, they are wrong. If I’m misunderstanding, please help explain.
They used to call it “menopausal melancholia”, hc.. The docs perhaps thought they were doing the best thing for the patient, just as your family did, or they wouldn’t have made the trips. There is so much we don’t know, and so we should keep learning and not just say “this is evil”. I lost a young son in his forties to cancer. I’ll never get over that, either. We all have our sorrows. There is so much we don’t know.
Upon searching, I find that the issue I mentioned is older than I thought, but still excellent and thorough. It was the December 27, 2016 print issue of National Geographic Magazine.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/photography/proof/2016/12/robin-hammond-gender-cover/
Also:https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/01/how-science-helps-us-understand-gender-identity/
Here is the latest unqualified judge for a lifetime appointment in drumpfland.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/steven-menashi-senate-committee_n_5dba49cbe4b0bb1ea374715c
Predictably against abortion, LGTBQ, women’s rights and minorities.