Press "Enter" to skip to content

China Wins New Tariff Delay and White House Poo-Pooing of Hong Kong Pro-Democracy Protests

Donald Trump is putting his usual mindless exclamation points on the “phase one” agreement to delay more U.S. tariffs against Chinese goods in return for promises from China to buy twice as much from our farmers as they did before we entered this reckless trade war.

The Wall Street Journal more calmly reports that China is winning:

“If you’re China, you’re pretty happy with the outcome,” Arthur R. Kroeber, founder of Beijing-based consultancy Gavekal Dragonomics, said of the latest trade talks. “China’s negotiation position has always been, the longer you can extend the talks the better.”

…Beijing slowed down President Trump from imposing additional tariffs, though it failed to push U.S. negotiators to remove any tariffs already in place [Chao Deng and Lingling Wei, “China Emerges with Wins from U.S. Trade Truce,” Wall Street Journal, 2019.10.12].

Like his fellow corporatist Sino-profit-slaves, Trump is also handing China another win by refusing to use the trade negotiations to bolster Christian and American values in Hong Kong:

Speaking at the Oval Office after a meeting with [Chinese Vice-Premier] Liu, Trump was asked if Hong Kong featured in their talks.

“We discussed [about] Hong Kong, and I think great progress has been made by China in Hong Kong,” Trump replied.

“I’ve been watching, and I actually told the vice-premier it really has toned down a lot from the initial days of a number of months ago when I saw a lot of people, and I see far fewer now,” he added.

The situation was “going to take care of itself”, he said.

“I actually think this deal is a great deal for the people of Hong Kong to see what happened. I think this is a very positive thing for Hong Kong. But … it really has de-escalated a lot from the beginning, and we were discussing that.”

The comment on de-escalation touched a raw nerve among protesters, as they debated their next course of action [Kimmy Chung, “Trump Says Latest US-China Trade Deal ‘Very Positive’ for Hong Kong, Leaving Protesters Disappointed He Did Not Back Their Cause,” South China Morning Post, 2019.10.12].

The Chinese appear to be getting a couple hamburgers today with no details laid out for how they will pay us or on which Tuesday:

Negotiators from China and the United States will be under pressure in the next few weeks to nail down the details of a partial trade deal struck on Friday, but Beijing has already warned of uncertainties ahead.

…Details of the initial deal would take three to five weeks to be determined, Trump said, adding that he and Chinese President Xi Jinping might ratify it during the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation summit in Chile next month [Wendy Wu and Robert Delaney, “Clock Ticks for China and US to Hammer out Details fo Partial Trade Deal,” South China Morning Post, 2019.10.12].

The Chinese recall seeing this same movie last spring:

Observers and Chinese government advisers said the outcome was similar to Trump’s comments after he met Liu in April.

Back then the US president was optimistic that a written document would be prepared in weeks, but the talks collapsed in May – with Washington blaming Beijing for backtracking its previously agreed commitment and Beijing saying the US demanded too much.

“Trump is taking a victory lap and putting much spin on the to-be-drafted trade deal. In contrast, the Chinese negotiators and media have been careful to not follow Trump’s public hype, knowing that the devil is in the written detail and there is no deal until the ink is dry,” James Zimmerman, a partner in the Beijing office of international law firm Perkins Coie, said.

“The Chinese are also avoiding any public statements either disputing or agreeing to Trump’s unilateral announcement on the to-be-drafted ‘deal’, knowing that Trump is volatile with his extreme vacillation between recriminations and conciliatory remarks” [Wu and Delaney, 2019.10.12].

U.S. investors are also seeing Friday’s agreement as flimsy protection from Trump’s broader trade war:

UBS’ Art Cashin is doubtful that the good feelings will last. “I don’t think this gets us to Christmas,” Cashin said. “I think it could be a temporary truce that wouldn’t last very long.”

This partial deal, Cashin said, does not change the longer-term narrative of lower growth for 2020, nor does it end the trade wars.

Others agree. “The trade war is one channel. The U.S. will still press forward and confront China in other areas,” said Marc Chandler, chief market strategist at Bannockburn Global Forex. “The cold war will not go away just because there is a truce in the tariff war.”

“Tariffs have been the tip of the spear in Trump’s trade wars,” Chris Krueger, senior policy analyst at Cowen, said in a recent note to clients. “The next fronts — capital flows, [more] export controls, supply chain duress, industrial policy — are the global plumbing of the real economy.”

The impact of this next round in the trade wars, Krueger said, “can produce exogenous shocks to the global system that can dwarf the tariffs” [Bob Pisani, “Wall Street Has Doubts After Partial Trade Deal: ‘I Don’t Think This Gets Us to Christmas,” CNBC, 2019.10.12].

So we’re not lifting any tariffs, we’re not supporting democracy in Hong Kong, and we don’t have signed treaties or contracts for more ag purchases in hand? Hmmm… a Great America would be standing for free markets, democracy, and fact.


  1. mike from iowa 2019-10-13 09:47

    From drumpf’s victory lap yesterday…. “So I suggest the farmers go immediately by more land and get bigger tractors,” Trump told reporters at the White House.

    With what? Their good looks?

  2. Cory Allen Heidelberger Post author | 2019-10-13 10:13

    Meanwhile, farming in South Dakota this year has been a “complete disaster.”

    Not exactly an environment supporting buying more land and bigger tractors. Trump must be referring to the ag oligarchs who are going to buy up all the small farmers’ assets after they dry up and blow away, the way Trump wants.

  3. mike from iowa 2019-10-13 10:18

    That is pretty much the message delivered by AG Suckretary Sonny Perdue. Only the bigly survive.

  4. Jeff Barth 2019-10-13 10:37

    The greatest agreement ever!

  5. Donald Pay 2019-10-13 10:58

    My daughter advises caution. She has said there is no real hard numbers in the Chinese press regarding purchase of any US ag products. She follows this stuff day and night, and maybe it’s too soon. On the other hand, there are reports of China buying most of Brazil’s old and new crop soybeans. Whatever happens, China is not going to go in big with the US. They learned their lesson.

  6. jerry 2019-10-13 11:49

    As long as the economy for everyone other than farmer’s moves steadily along, it really doesn’t matter if farmers make it or not. Remember, on these flyover states like South Dakota, the two senators from them will continue to vote for what Big Oil and Wall Street tell them to.

    So yeah farmers, go out and buy some more, here is a real bargain. Get out your checkbooks for this “$7,287,000. 1,041 acres. Vermillion , SD , 57069. just $7,000.00 an acre! Have it paid for next year with Chubby’s policy’s, and no whine.

  7. jerry 2019-10-13 12:02

    Chubby has shamed the military as well as the farmers, so you’re all in the same class of feeling abandoned and disgraced.

    “[W]ith the White House revoking protection for these Kurdish fighters, some of the Special Forces officers who battled alongside the Kurds say they feel deep remorse at orders to abandon their allies.

    “They trusted us and we broke that trust,” one Army officer who has worked alongside the Kurds in northern Syria said last week in a telephone interview. “It’s a stain on the American conscience.””

    ““I’m ashamed,” said another officer who had also served in northern Syria. Both officers spoke on the condition of anonymity to avoid reprisals from their chains of command.”

    “American Special Forces and other troops had built close ties with their Kurdish allies, living on the same dusty compounds, sharing meals and common dangers. They fought side by side, and helped evacuate Kurdish dead and wounded from the battlefield.”

    “And the response from the Kurds themselves was just as stark. “The worst thing in military logic and comrades in the trench is betrayal,” said Shervan Darwish, an official allied with the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces.”

    After 4 years of close fighting to bring down the ISIS that scared the hell out of America, now we abandon those who did the heavy lifting. So farmer’s, rejoice, you have just found yourself expendable. Head to town and find yourself a couple of different jobs to make ends meet.

  8. Robin Friday 2019-10-13 13:57

    Sadly, farmers have always been expendable. Get big or get out. That’s always been the underlying message. Family farms are the way of the past. Corporate farms, factory farms are the way of the future. Perdue is just ignorant enough to say it out loud, after all, he is Trump’s man. But it’s not new.

    There used to be a joke going around about Ezra Taft Benson’s plan–he was going to give every farmer a million dollars and let them farm until it’s gone.

  9. Robin Friday 2019-10-13 14:06

    Mr. Pay, your daughter is undoubtedly right. We’ve never been able to trust the Chinese to keep their word on what they’re going to buy or when they’re going to do it, or what they’re going to pay, or what they’re going to do. Farmers know this and undoubtedly anyone else that deals with China knows it too. It’s a hope for the best, plan for the worst kind of game.

  10. happy camper 2019-10-13 15:07

    If most of Congress is against leaving the Kurds why didn’t they act quickly and either stop Trump or say we’re putting them back? He’s Commander and Chief but they’re supposed to be a check on his power. Can that not be done or did they just not want to do it? In so many ways Trump is showing he is untrustworthy, but hopefully when Donald refers to “the US” they understand it’s Trump and that we will return to being a more respected nation. Even Pence looks like a step up.

  11. cibvet 2019-10-13 15:41

    Given the United States abysmal track record of keeping its word, I not sure I would criticize any other nation.

  12. jerry 2019-10-13 15:56

    American’s are now in full retreat as we turn tail from a Turkey. Thanksgiving will never be the same. Turkey kicks American behinds, kinda poetic justice for the bird I guess. Seriously, what are we spending trillions of dollars in defense spending for? Waste of money as we cannot keep our word any more to our allies and now we defend Saudi Arabia. Chubby has embarrassed the military. Show of hands of those who would have thought he would do otherwise? Give Chubby a parade…are you kidding?

  13. mike from iowa 2019-10-13 16:20

    Drumpf is driving our former Kurdish allies straight into Russia’s loving arms, literally and figuratively.

  14. Donald Pay 2019-10-13 17:05


    Prior to Trump, China was a pretty good trading partner for the US on agricultural products. They bought soy and pork, and there was some interest in beef. They wanted to partner with dairy. Where they were not great trading partners were in the more technologically advanced industries, where they could reverse engineer and steal American intellectual property. I think that’s why they wanted to partner with dairies, because the US dairy industry is very advanced compared to China’s.

  15. Debbo 2019-10-13 18:13

    It’s just sickening. Day after day that Brainless Bustard adds to the damage of the previous day. It’s going to take so long to rebuild trust with the good nations of the world. Reputations are fragile things, on any level.

  16. T 2019-10-13 19:17

    Meanwhile in ag land, no crops can be combined, prices rallied a little, can’t get down roads to haul from bins, counties have no money to fix the roads, our ag tax dollars are tied up in new schools, so prob more taxes now for the roads and infrastructure,,,,,
    Acres that weren’t planted can’t be worked because of mud,,,,
    And no one is going to pick up the tab on this surplus (grains in storage) so prices will not say rocket like the orange man promises when an agreement is made.

  17. jerry 2019-10-13 20:52

    China wins because Chubby’s base supporters are losers. Chubby and the losers all supported his platform from the beginning, you know the one that declared Make America Great AGAIN, what the hell was that? Weren’t we always great? I and the winners all thought so. Not Chubby and the losers though, they continue to support the downhill slide we are on. Doesn’t matter a hill of beans to them if China wins just so America loses. That’s all they care about. When you see these losers, remember that.

  18. Debbo 2019-10-13 21:29

    T, there is enough money for those needs. The problem is that the richest greedy bastards are keeping it in their clutches. They are not paying anywhere near their fair share. You are paying a greater share, bearing their burden.

    It’s the people at the top who are the problem.

  19. Debbo 2019-10-14 00:38

    More swine news. North Korea gets 80% of its protein from pork, but swine flu is rampaging out of control there. Dumb Dotard’s best pal hasn’t the infrastructure, knowledge or experience to manage a disease outbreak so the hog farms are decimated. There are more small farmers running hog farms than pigs in the big collective factories.

    Malnutrition in NK keeps growing. Neighboring nations can always recognize NKoreans because they are so small.

    South Korea is trying to be extra diligent to keep wild swine from crossing the border from the north. China and Russia are worried that NK pigs will reinfect their herds.

    My guess is China will have to step in, just to save their own food supply. Bloomberg is my source.

  20. Clyde 2019-10-14 07:35

    Well, the whole idea of importing everything while we export nothing but agricultural goods isn’t working and isn’t going to work for anyone but the likes of ADM and Smithfield.

    After watching a documentary on ag in the EU I see no sense in US “Free Market” ag. The fact is that every country goes all out to be food self sufficient. Leaders learned well from Marie Antoinette’s demise. China has just got another attempted lesson from us. They will be hard to convince of our sincerity in the future.

  21. jerry 2019-10-14 09:14

    Clyde, The United States decided long ago to have China manufacture all or most of our goods. It actually would work very well if not for the greed, goosed on by tax cuts to the wealthy. We could have the social programs needed as well as infrastructure needs without a strain on anyone. All one needs to do is look to China to see how healthcare delivery, as an example, is better than what we have here in the US.

    “Healthcare in China. Healthcare in China consists of both public and private medical institutions and insurance programs. About 95% of the population has at least basic health insurance coverage. … China has also become a major market for health-related multinational companies.”

    So China manufactures our products, sends them to us, and we purchase them whilst we maintain our service sector. Seems to me like it could be a match in heaven that got sidetracked by the Beelzebub, Chubby. Chubby, of all people, should know the value of the service sector as it has enriched and corrupted his entire being.

    “The services sector is an important part of the U.S. economy. According to BEA, in 2009 services accounted for 79.6 percent of U.S. private-sector gross domestic product (GDP), or $9.81 trillion. Services jobs accounted for more than 80 percent of U.S. private-sector employment, or 89.7 million jobs.”

  22. jerry 2019-10-14 09:34

    Just a matter of time before Swine Flu hits the North American shore. Long past time to ditch pork and move on as we do not have the land mass to produce enough pork for the world’s needs’.

    Imagine, an area the size of India required for pork production. That’s impossible to even think of the smell and the pollution it would bring. India is a third the size of the US, so you know where the pigs would be raised, right here in the middle of the US. Lovely.

  23. John Dale 2019-10-14 10:02

    Sources close to the President are reporting that China will be purchasing large amounts of ag products to avoid the next Tariff increase. US asset backed cash of unknown quantity is seemingly endless, while China is running out of known quantities financial leverage/ammo quickly. Global bank production of more cash is not 1:1 value. Each dollar produced correctly dilutes the value of the other dollars. The information systems economy works fast enough to ensure inflation as a disincentive to global banks cheating at the currency printers.

    Value is not equal to money.

  24. Robert McTaggart 2019-10-14 11:03


    Would installing solar panels on the pig farms make you feel any better about them?

    “This will cover approximately 75% of the farm’s energy demand and reduce energy costs by the same amount. This equates to a reduction of 3,500 tons of carbon emissions over 25 years.”

    Of course, one irony is that the cost savings from solar are likely to allow the farm to feed more pigs!

  25. John Dale 2019-10-14 11:10

    Robert McTaggart – We’ll have to strip mine the oceans for the rare earth to make the panels. If bacon weren’t so delicious and packed with energy, I think I’d hardly eat it at all. Plus, I heard on Maddow that those dastardly swine are involved in a conspiracy to corner the lipstick market.

  26. mike from iowa 2019-10-14 11:25

    Without a single shred of proof, drumpf makes this bold claim…

    Donald J. Trump

    My deal with China is that they will IMMEDIATELY start buying very large quantities of our Agricultural Product, not wait until the deal is signed over the next 3 or 4 weeks. THEY HAVE ALREADY STARTED! Likewise financial services and other deal aspects, start preparing….

    Mnuchin said no decision had been made on whether to kill or delay another round of tariffs scheduled to take effect on Dec. 15. Trump has said talks on a “phase two” deal will start almost immediately.

    I am so gonna believe anything drumpf or his cabinet says! snark

  27. Robert McTaggart 2019-10-14 11:36

    Either that or install treadmills in the hog farm and generate piggy power….ha!….or capture the resulting methane from pig poop and use that biogas for energy.

    “Biogas typically refers to methane created by the breakdown of organic matter. It can be made from food scraps, decomposing plants and animal waste. Swine biogas is methane that comes from hog waste.”

    This particular project is basically sending the gas through a pipeline to burn at a central facility instead of burning it at individual farms. They claim that the costs can be the same per kilowatt-hour as solar power.

    Duke University is thinking about using the swine biogas to power their boilers instead of using natural gas. Solar and wind energy are not dense enough for that purpose. They would still be emitting carbon, but the calculus is that the process would be renewable…or at least renewable enough.

  28. John Dale 2019-10-14 11:39

    The 3rd impeachment attempt seems to be a total loss.

    There is a petition circulating in congress to censure Schiff.

    Meanwhile, back at the ranch, big business is strip mining for 5G equipment that will be used to enslave humanity and nobody here bats an eyelash.

    My family and I are bracing to quantify the damages .. because 5G is for “our” safety.

  29. John Dale 2019-10-14 11:40

    Robert McTaggart – I have a salsa/burrito recipe that will turbo charge that power plant. Just let me know.

  30. Debbo 2019-10-14 14:10

    Mike, Wapo is paywalled, but I did see that Smithfield/China can get more of our tax $ than they already do in various other tax breaks, cuts and a tax code skewed for corporate welfare and wealth. What a “farm relief” bill, GOP!

    We don’t have to ask to know that Economic Oaf (Changed that one to assauge Dale’s testicular insecurities.) is lying about the immediate effect of his “deal.” I think he needs to [write] a new book, “The Oaf of the Deal.” That one he could actually write himself. He has adequate intelligence and skills, just barely.

  31. John Dale 2019-10-14 17:14

    “Economic Oaf ” – If you calling President Trump names weren’t so humorous ..

    Very dramatic.

    Another beautiful cheap shot ..

  32. mike from iowa 2019-10-14 18:43

    Shop around, Johnny fraud. Some of us have more colorful names for the pathological lying pos.
    Get over yourself. None of us are alleged to be the potus and so we don’t need to pretend to be civil like a potus, who is legally elected and a non-criminal enterprise would be expected to act like.

  33. Cory Allen Heidelberger Post author | 2019-10-14 19:16

    “Economic oaf” is accurate. His reckless trade war proves it, as does his inability to explain or secure a reasonable and mutually beneficial economic relationship with China. Donald Trump cannot say one edifying thing about economics without cue cards.

  34. Cory Allen Heidelberger Post author | 2019-10-14 19:21

    An intelligent, instructive President would be able to sit down with reporters and explain, rationally, without hyperbole, the actual details of a deal made with a foreign power. Three days, later, we still have nothing but Trump’s hot air.

  35. grudznick 2019-10-14 19:35

    Mr. H, as your friend I advise you to not pile on the out-of-state name-calling if you intend to run for the legislatures or perhaps the Governorship as you often state. I, for one, could get behind some of your stances if you did not hire complete idiots to run your show, but people in Aberdeen are apt to not vote for a fellow who is propped up by a bunch of out-of-state name-callers.

    Perhaps grudznick is wrong on this one, but I’m just sayin…mind your voters’ perceptions.
    Chalk this up as a discount on my future campaign advisory fees. I’ll just discount stuff for you later.

  36. grudznick 2019-10-14 19:43

    Mr. Dale, 5G is fine if you put some tin foil in your windows. I have seen this done before, and it worked because those people lived.

  37. John Dale 2019-10-14 20:08

    “non-criminal enterprise” – The Clinton Foundation is sometimes referred to as the Clinton Cartel. We all have some responsibility to acknowledge that things aren’t always black and white.

    “reckless trade war ” – The only way to know is to travel into the future, since the true benefits of hard negotiating will not be realized for years. Also, some objectivity in the analysis would suggest that, again, things are not always orange and black.

    Pandering to the base, grudznick, is the easy path to getting lots of votes and still losing.

    Regarding the intellectual honesty of rolling-out 5G, there has been NONE. Just saying that nobody has died is also a fantastic argument and justification for tattooing a picture of Cory Allen Heidelberger on your rump. Nobody has died from that, either, but I think I’ll pass on both.

    My instincts regarding 5G is that if/when I start detecting coverage here, I’ll do everything in my power to oppose it including bull-horning the pioneer offices for being so negligent in its coverage, handing-out leaflets at city hall, and waging a campaign for what we really should do – a simple pre-2G text message device sold through the USPS.

    NO 5G.

    Where the hell are you, Black Hills Pioneer!?

  38. John Dale 2019-10-14 20:13

    President Trump’s dynamic approach to negotiation is a very good sign. Not committing to anything, not telegraphing anything, leaving all avenues open to pursue the best possible result for our side while taking in a lot of scratch into the treasury works for me. Let’s keep that up and increase the margins while continuing to build-out USMCA, infrastructure, and a new conservative American Internet (pre 2G sold through the USPS).

  39. mike from iowa 2019-10-14 20:15

    HRC has been investigated for 41 plus years without a single indictment or arrest. Some things are black and white.

    You lose, loser.

  40. John Dale 2019-10-14 20:19

    The Clintons win .. they are the greatest criminal enterprise to never be prosecuted.

    It’s not that they aren’t committing crimes. It’s that they aren’t getting prosecuted. I wouldn’t even go as far as to say that they never get caught. They get caught, they just never get prosecuted.

    .. of course, that could all change very quickly.

    Also, the Clinton network could be punished extrajudicially.

  41. Debbo 2019-10-14 20:27

    Clinton conspiracists are entertaining, in a bizarre, freaky kind of way. I had one tell me that Secretary Clinton has had 54 people killed. How nice that the conspiracists have a specific number to play with.

    Funny. 😄😄

  42. mike from iowa 2019-10-14 20:42

    Heez a nut, alrighty, Debbo. Past my bedtime. Chow.

  43. John Dale 2019-10-14 20:49

    Interesting stuff here.

    Yong Wang (of China) runs the PATRIOT program at DSU.

    His area of expertise is in IoT, which is the network of gadgets that don’t work well without 5G invading your home and bodies.

    Yong Wang, a true Patriot?

    Nothing against him personally. He’s just a squirrel trying to find a nut like the rest of us. However, this is a complicated issue.

    Note – I logged 15 years in academia in one form or another, and I am a professional in the technology field who favors nationalism, conservative approaches to IT, and constitutional principles.

    My professional and educated opinion is that 5G is a Trojan horse that we – ALL OF US – will deeply regret.

    We have to tear up the earth to get the materials for the equipment, and when it is rolled-out, it is very anti-humanity.

    It’s offensive design and subsequent rollout signifies the next great war.

  44. John Dale 2019-10-14 20:51

    Here is a song I wrote about 5G. I modeled it after Bob Dylan’s Dream, a futuristic song about walking around after a nuclear WWIII. I entered this in the tiny desk contest at SDPR.

  45. Debbo 2019-10-14 20:54

    China is telling trumpelstilskins to cool their jets regarding Economic Oaf’s pet trade war.

    “While the negotiations do appear to have produced a fundamental understanding on the key issues and the broader benefits of friendly relations, the Champagne should probably be kept on ice, at least until the two presidents put pen to paper,” wrote China Daily, the official Chinese state-owned English newspaper.

    They’re also cognizant that Nutzo may take it into his unstable, ungenious brain to cancel the whole thing at any moment. Insanity is like that.

  46. Cory Allen Heidelberger Post author | 2019-10-14 20:58

    Good grief: what about, what about, what about. So tired. Focus up:

    The point here is that, once again, Trump is saying false things. There is no signed deal. There is no win for the U.S. There is no intelligent explanation of coherent policy aims or mechanism to achieve them. Trump knows neither economics nor China, and America is losing because of his ignorance.

    No list of allegations against any other person in the world changes those facts. No statement about any other person changes the fact that the 45th President of the United States is incapable of intelligently upholding America’s general welfare and should be replaced as quickly as possible with the 46th.

  47. John Dale 2019-10-14 20:59

    Debbo – “cancel the whole thing”

    One of the cardinal rules of negotiation is that you have to be willing to walk away if you can’t get the deal you want.

    The US still has a lot of chips. If we play our cards right, we’ll increase that number. I trust President Trump to get it done.

    He’s already exceeded expectations in this regard.

  48. John Dale 2019-10-14 21:21

    Here are President Trump’s actual words from yesterday:


    “I agreed not to increase Tariffs from 25% to 30% on October 15th. They will remain at 25%. The relationship with China is very good. We will finish out the large Phase One part of the deal, then head directly into Phase Two. The Phase One Deal can be finalized & signed soon!”

    “My deal with China is that they will IMMEDIATELY start buying very large quantities of our Agricultural Product, not wait until the deal is signed over the next 3 or 4 weeks. THEY HAVE ALREADY STARTED! Likewise financial services and other deal aspects, start preparing….”


    Which part of this is untrue?

  49. Cory Allen Heidelberger Post author | 2019-10-14 21:32

    “already started”? Where? What? From whom?

    Trump claims to have a deal. There is no deal. He made a concession (delaying imposition of further tariffs) in hopes of getting a deal.

    Where is the deal? Where is the contract or treaty or memorandum of understanding?

    Where is the President’s thoughtful, well-reasoned, well-evidenced explanation of his policy? Where is the evidence that we have won anything?

  50. John Dale 2019-10-14 21:41

    I’m not a lawyer, but the burden of proof is on you to disprove the assertion.

    The American people do not have to sign off on his deal.

    I presume he has an agreement with authorized Chinese representatives on the structure of a “deal” – a verbal arrangement with some simple contingencies that President Trump can easily verify.

    If China performs on what they agreed to, then we put some ink down.

    It’s up to China to prove they will do what they say they will do, and likewise with President Trump.

    When we elected him and he took office, we gave him the authority to make deals like this, and there was nothing in the agreement that President Trump has to share the terms or publish the negotiation process details beyond what he is doing through his own direct connection with The USA. His use of twitter to bypass the Brutus archetypes, directly communicating with The American people without translation or reduction or codification, will be studied in history books for centuries.

    I would love to conduct a PhD level research study on this topic from many angles, including the vectorization of data and how that works (or doesn’t) optimally to achieve human happiness.

    It’s an amazing time to be alive, objective, and paying close attention.

  51. grudznick 2019-10-14 21:46

    Mr. Dale, did you stay too long at the Steerfish place, with the really big beers? I am mostly in agreement with you because you are from here, in South Dakota. And I would even be your vice governor candidate, should you run on the Libertarian Ticket and my friend Bob blesses my position, but golly. I do envy your ability to get Mr. H and his out-of-state minions riled up.

  52. Anne 2019-10-14 21:53

    Clause 2. He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Court of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

  53. John Dale 2019-10-14 21:56

    grudznick – my goal is never to try to rile anyone up. My goal is to tell the truth, provide good analysis, and rally people around the truth or find weaknesses in my own perception (I codify these values in the information systems I build, for what it’s worth).

    Cory H. is an intellectual and political stud as far as I’m concerned and he has earned my respect for pushing forward important issues as an avowed far left wing pundit without apology. He shows up and really plays to win (and sometimes does under very difficult circumstances).

    I write things that are controversial sometimes to test out ideas, sometimes as a matter of conviction. They are not always party line, but I do my best not to punch below the belt, and I think that’s why Cory keeps letting me post here. I really appreciate that. I love doing thought work and writing, especially in my field of information technology which has large overlaps with politics and social sciences.

    Regarding out of state minions, it is a bit of a puzzle, but as I type I am reminded at the propensity for in-state social retaliation against people signaling their support for non-SD-Republican causes. I think many of the folks that you’re referring to are washed-out former in-staters who rung the bell and feel safe to lob ideas from a safe distance. You and me, apparently, are still on the front lines, in the thick of it, and having enough fun to keep us engaged and coming back.

    Thank for the comment and inciting this meta .. hopefully it doesn’t take us off track. I wouldn’t want to get off topic. ;)

    Have a super day!

  54. John Dale 2019-10-14 22:00

    Anne – interesting thought. I found this:

    Apparently, like war, Congress used to have to declare and approve trade deals. They still have to be ratified after structuring, but I think there must be a lot of room for the executive branch to dictate terms of existing engagements as the situation changes, the outcomes of which can determine how future trade deals are structured and executed.

    This is an immensely difficult and error prone process (there are millions of ways to get ripped-off). I always want a good business person in charge of these deals .. someone who has seen the hustles.

  55. jerry 2019-10-14 22:17

    Meanwhile, China controls the markets. Chubby’s trade deal is a nothingburger. China was the most reliable trading partner we have had for decades. We encouraged China to build the stuff we wanted China to build and with the money they received, they purchased ag products that made South Dakota agriculture the mainstay of our economy. Thanks to Rounds, Thune and Dirty, we have bupkiss with Chubby’s failed trade war that they all support.

  56. Cory Allen Heidelberger Post author | 2019-10-15 05:45

    The burden of proof is never on anyone, lawyer or not, to disprove an assertion. We don’t add new assertions to our pool of facts until the asserter provides good reason to do so.

    Ohio soybean farmer and Shleby County GOP chair Chris Gibbs is demanding proof, because taking Donald Trump at his word in similar previous situations has proven to be a mistake:

    The stock market reacted positively to the news on Friday, although the verbal agreement has yet to be officially written down or signed by leaders of both countries. The market was slightly down Monday as doubts grew about the preliminary trade deal.

    China made about $19.1 billion in U.S. agricultural purchases in 2017, according to the American Farm Bureau. That number fell to $9.1 billion in 2018 and $8 billion through August 2019.

    “I don’t believe it until [the crops are] on the boat. This is deja vu all over again,” Gibbs said, attributing his doubt to past promises by the president that Mexico and the European Union would make big soybean purchases.

    In June, Trump suggested that Mexico would buy farm goods in order to prevent tariffs he threatened the country with.

    “He’s done that before. Somebody has to speak truth to power a little bit,” Gibbs said. “And I hate to be a downer on this all the time, but somebody has to be practical” [Tyler Clifford, “Ohio soybean farmer says he wouldn’t vote for Trump again even if he could ‘walk across my pond’,” CNBC, 2019.10.14].

    Saying things doesn’t make them true. Leaders must write down, sign, and act on their agreements. We must provide evidence for our assertions.

    We must escape this era of constant deflection and distraction and get back to speaking and demanding truth.

  57. mike from iowa 2019-10-15 07:52

    I would love to conduct a PhD level research study on this topic from many angles

    You have, Johnny Fraud. You went through the bull s%$# and piled higher and deeper parts and never batted an eye.

    You want to speak truth and then you drop links to infowars? You have as little self awareness as the entire drumpf criminal enterprise. You are a nut!

  58. mike from iowa 2019-10-15 08:18

    From Bloomberg News…… Terms of Trade is a daily newsletter that untangles a world embroiled in trade wars.

    Beijing wants a rollback in tariffs in its trade war with the U.S. before China can feasibly agree to buy as much as $50 billion of American agriculture products that President Donald Trump claims are part of an initial deal, people familiar with the matter said.

    Chinese officials are willing to start purchasing more U.S. agricultural products as part of the “phase one” trade deal, but it is not likely to reach the $40 billion to $50 billion touted by Trump under current circumstances, the people said. The people asked not to be identified discussing the private negotiations.

    The condition highlights how far apart Washington and Beijing remain, even after reaching the handshake accord touted by the U.S. last week. Washington had said China, which imported about $20 billion of U.S. farm goods in 2017, agreed to make large agricultural purchases in exchange for relief on upcoming tariffs. Beijing’s position makes a deal more complex than initially described.

    It wasn’t Washington that bragged about a non-deal. It was the orange pathological liar himself.

  59. John Dale 2019-10-15 09:52

    jerry – “China was the most reliable trading partner we have had for decades.”

    The relationship with China was not reciprocal and it was abusive. If this is reliable, we did good to seek other options.

    If (big if) Brexit happens on the 31st as the democratic will of the people there expressed, we’ll see a major expected and welcomed realignment of global trade favoring the US.

    That’s why President Trump is supported by so many who have likely read the plan (not so sure about Thune, who may have a load of Cisco and Pharma stock).

    mike from iowa – “you drop links to infowars” .. I actually have a problem with the assertion that nothing true can come from InfoWars. In fact, to shut down a source of information is Fascist. Ergo, you have Fascist behaviors. If I might use an analogy to explain your intellectual misgiving in this regard, it’s like you are being promoted by Don King to fight Mike Tyson. You say, “Mike Tyson isn’t a real boxer. How dare you even put me in the ring with that guy! He is beneath me in the boxing realm!”

    So, BS Mike. Address the information there or forfeit to the better boxer. It is outside the rules of reasonable debate to say “Sandy Hook” 10 times and magically make the rest of Alex Jones’ 30 year body of work irrelevant. Honestly – it’s pure laziness on your part.

    “It was the orange pathological liar himself” — you are the reason FaceBook and others are under scrutiny and pressure to censor. I would never suggest that for DFP as long as everyone knows your ideas on Trump are as genuine as a plug nickel. Anne and I had a nice exchange about the truth of the matter, how that is normal in a negotiation to progress in phases and good faith, and how that is very good for America.

    Cory – “Saying things doesn’t make them true. Leaders must write down, sign, and act on their agreements. We must provide evidence for our assertions.” So, when this happens and it is really good for farmers, do you suddenly become a Trump fan? President Trump is not signing anything until he sees some good faith from China, who has morphed into a global imperialist force with the money we’ve been paying them. I’m sure Honk Kong has been factored into the deal, and much of what is happening has not, should not, and will not be made public until the appropriate elected officers ink the deal.

    In a trial, the prosecution asserts guilt. It is up to the defense to disprove the assertion. There are other options, but I’m not sure what you mean when you say that nobody should disprove an assertion. It is the prosecution who is relieved of the burden of absolute proof, an impossible standard. Meanwhile, the defense can often times find absolute disproof (cip: my defendant was at the Chucky Cheeses at the time of the crime and we have the video).

    My Philosophy and MIS/CSc background would be a fantastical underpinning for a law degree. But I figured I wouldn’t get in there, either. I’m just too dangerous to the status quo. ;)

  60. jerry 2019-10-15 11:09

    The UK will no longer exist as Scotland wants out of their mess. England will be about as important of a trading partner as Greenland is now. China was and will continue to be a most important trade partner…for the next Democratic administration. It will take probably 16 to 20 years to fix it until the next failed republican government comes back.

  61. mike from iowa 2019-10-15 11:31 Just a few of the worst stuf your buddy makes up.

    The government has weather weaons

    In a 2013 broadcast, Jones warned that “of course there’s weather weapon stuff going on,” according to a transcript produced by Media Matters, a left-leaning watchdog organization. “We had floods in Texas like fifteen years ago, killed thirty-something people in one night. Turned
    out it was the Air Force.”

    Chemicals in the water are turning frogs gay
    One of Jones’ most notorious conspiracy theories is that the government is using chemicals in order to turn people gay, using a mysterious “gay bomb” devised by the Pentagon.

    “The reason there’s so many gay people now is because it’s a chemical warfare operation, and I have the government documents where they said they’re going to encourage homosexuality with chemicals so that people don’t have children,” he said on his broadcast in 2010, according to NBC News.

    Five years later, the theory took a turn. In a rant that has since become a meme and a line of t-shirts, Jones said he didn’t like the government “putting chemicals in the water that turn the friggin’ frogs gay.”

    Robert Mueller is a demon, and also a pedophile
    Jones has reserved some of his harshest vitriol for Trump’s enemies, in particular special counsel Robert Mueller.

    “He is now the king of the swamp,” Jones said of Mueller in a broadcast in the fall of 2017, according to Media Matters. After briefly claiming that the late Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., was the real leader of the Democratic Party, Jones said Mueller was “the literal swamp king creature come to kill America.”

    Jones took his attacks up a notch a year later.

    “Everyone’s so scared of Mueller, they’d let Mueller rape kids in front of people, which he did,” Jones said in July. He hedged the claim later in the broadcast, noting that “the word is he doesn’t have sex with kids, he just controls it all. Can you imagine being a monster like that?”

    The Sandy Hook shooting was staged

    Hillary Clinton is running a child sex ring out of a pizza parlor
    Jones did not invent the so-called “pizzagate” conspiracy theory.

    But Edgar Maddison Welch, the self-proclaimed “investigator” who fired multiple rounds into the kid-friendly D.C. pizzeria Comet Ping Pong in late 2016, followed Jones on Facebook and listened to his radio show, according to reports at the time. Welch was later sentenced to four years in prison.

  62. mike from iowa 2019-10-15 11:35

    Johnny Fraud, you be one sick puppy. You actually believe the bs you spew just proves you’re a nut.

  63. John Dale 2019-10-15 11:49

    mike from iowa – I don’t think you’re an idiot. Stupidity is forever. Ignorance can be fixed. So, let’s get started.

    Google “Atrazine making frogs gay” and you’ll be quickly linked to the Berkley studies confirming this. Also, birth control pill chemicals were pluming into the Tucson aquifer. We were studying that issue when I worked at the infamous Water Resources Research Center at The University of Arizona in Tucson.

    “Welch was later sentenced to four years in prison” — not Alex Jones.

    Mueller is also thought to have helped cover-up that 9/11 was an inside job. Building 7 was demolished. That was recently confirmed. We got the Patriot Act out of that one.

    Alex Jones issued retractions for statements regarding Sandy Hook .. CNN took it forward and encouraged the parents to sue him anyway while publishing that Alex Jones still advocated the position after the retractions. CNN is under scrutiny this week. Watch Project Veritas closely for that ..

    Bill Clinton was on Epstein’s Lolita Express manifest 26 times. The Clinton Foundation pillaged Haiti multiple times. They haven’t been prosecuted, but that doesn’t necessitate innocence.

    I could have stopped at the Wikipedia link to weather warfare and the recommended query for Atrazine, but I figured why not go for the full monty.

    You sir, just got served.

    Knock off the bs. Quit being a cutout. Turn on your masters. For they serve the dark side.

  64. Porter Lansing 2019-10-15 12:21

    MFI – “Sick Puppy?” Good one.
    Dale’s convoluted babble demands a referral to “Catch-23”.
    Catch-22 was the military regulation that said if you claimed you were crazy during wartime, that proved you weren’t crazy.
    Catch-23 says, if John Dale doesn’t make you feel crazy, you’re already crazy.
    -Bill Maher

  65. mike from iowa 2019-10-15 12:36

    Frogs and clownfish (plus others) can change sex naturally. Which is what studied frog did. And there are dozens more made up stories from Jones, too numerous to mention.

    Neither Jones or you have any credibility. You have been served.

  66. John Dale 2019-10-15 12:47

    Unless and until you read the Berkley study on Atrazine, you should definitely have your keyboard privileges revoked.

    Also, rather than parrot what I did, you could come up with – as an alternative to the “served” quip – something more original like, “your mouth is in jail”, or “your mouth’s checks are bouncing”.

  67. Debbo 2019-10-15 13:19

    Mike, good synopsis of Jones’ cruelty and craziness. In fact, psychotic is not too far off base describing Dale’s buddy, “AJ.”

    The Sandy Hook parents who sued him to stop his abuse are cleaning his clock in court. He has yet to win a single motion. The case will clean him out. I hope part of the final verdict is that he must admit that he is a pathological liar, just like his hero, Liar-in-Chief.

  68. mike from iowa 2019-10-15 13:36

    I read Hayes study and it has been debunked., get it? Your mouth spews rabid falsehoods from conspiracy theorists who have been debunked.

  69. Porter Lansing 2019-10-15 13:36

    That could be “Catch-24”. If a pathological liar admits he’s a pathological liar, isn’t that a pathological lie? lol

  70. John Dale 2019-10-15 13:53

    Debbo – “Dale’s buddy”

    I have never met Alex Jones. How could he be my buddy? Is this hyperbole?

    mike from iowa – what debunked the study? The divine virtue of you having read it? :D

    Porter Lansing – “pathological liar”. I count 5 untruths in the previous 4 posts to this one. AMAZING.

    1 – Trump is a pathological liar
    2 – spews rabid falsehoods from conspiracy theorists who have been debunked
    3 – Dale’s buddy
    4 – study was debunked
    5 – cruelty and craziness. In fact, psychotic

    NONE of these assertions are quantified, and most of them are (at least) borderline defamatory.

    This tactic is why Trump won.

    Stay classy you three (stooges).


  71. Porter Lansing 2019-10-15 13:59

    Trump didn’t win. Cheaters can’t be actual winners. Trump, WikiLeaks, Russia, and Cambridge Analytica cheated federal election laws (engaging a foreign entity to help sway a federal election is a felony). And … Trump is facing impeachment for trying to cheat the next election by engaging Ukraine to investigate and falsely incriminate Joe Biden. Trump legally lost to Clinton and he’ll legally lose to Liz Warren. He’ll be just an underwear skid mark on American history.

  72. John Dale 2019-10-15 14:22

    Let’s just fact check this:

    1 – Trump didn’t win
    2 – Cambridge Analytica helped the RNC
    3 – facing impeachment for trying to cheat the next election
    4 – falsely incriminate Biden
    5 – Trump legally lost to Clinton

    1 – President Trump won .. so did George Washington
    2 – CA and FaceBook released the entire social graph to the DNC
    3 – this is the third attempt to impeach Trump, because Trump is taking on corruption, and because the corruption runs deep – why would we expect corrupt elements to tell the truth? That’s why they’re corrupt .. the deep state and globalism is DONE. Get out of those investments immediately or suffer the consequences (especially Cisco).
    4 – Biden’s guilt or innocence will remain to be seen, we already have a good deposition and complete intel warranting the investigation. It doesn’t matter if Biden is a political opponent if he broke the law with will and intent.
    5 – Trump won the electoral college, and it looks like it’ll be another very lopsided election in 2020.

  73. jerry 2019-10-15 14:50

    In the last 15 months, the EU has replaced the US as China’s main trading partner. I wish we could sell some ag products soon to China, but I wish a lot of things that never seem to happen.

  74. jerry 2019-10-15 15:05

    The idea of Hunter or Joe Biden’s innocence or guilt is irrelevant to the saga. What’s important is the obstruction of justice committed and proven by many many many sources, including Chubby’s own admission of that fact. I don’t know about the rest of the readers, but for me, the Biden’s guilt or innocence is a nothingburger.

    As far as a third attempt, I would like anyone to show the impeachment inquiry that happened on one and two, otherwise just admit the lie and move on. The fact is, there is only one impeachment inquiry and that is the current one.

    The rest of the stuff is all gibberish made up from the mind of someone who must be huffing something or another.

  75. mike from iowa 2019-10-15 15:27

    Water can affect the sex of frogs – sort of from Rosie McCall IFLScience

    Alex Jones, the far-right radio host and conspiracy theorist of Infowars fame, claimed chemicals in the water are turning frogs gay. While there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of evidence to back up his “theory” that water is affecting frogs’ sexuality, some studies seem to suggest man-made chemicals do have an effect on a frog’s sex.

    A 2010 paper from the University of California, Berkeley, found that as many as one in 10 male frogs exposed to atrazine, a common pesticide, experience a hormonal imbalance that effectively turns them female. They produce estrogen, mate with males, and even lay eggs. More recently, studies have shown that chemicals found in suburban ponds and road salts can also affect a frog’s sex.

    While the role of man-made chemicals in the environment may be problematic from a reproductive point of view, there is nothing unnatural about animals switching sex. Shrimps, clownfish, coral, and frogs all have the ability to do so. There is also no evidence to suggest that chemicals in the water can affect human sexuality or imply the US government is trying to make children gay with juice boxes, as Jones claims.

    Read ’em and weep.

  76. Porter Lansing 2019-10-15 16:26

    No, Dale. You’re wrong, again. But … what can we expect from one who thinks he’d be a “great lawyer”? BTW, a prosecutor brings charges against a defendant but the defendant has to prove nothing. The prosecutor has to prove the charges are correct. Maybe that’s why you can’t get into any SD Universities. Schools reject applicants who think they know everything already.

  77. mike from iowa 2019-10-15 16:34

    Jones told the judge in his defamation hearing he knows now kids were killed at SandyHook but he still believes the government was involved. He needs an intervention before someone does it to him.

  78. jerry 2019-10-15 22:52

    Large offices will be the first order of business or lack of.

    “Mnuchin added that “it’s something we’ve talked about extensively, and I expect that the agreement we sign does have a dispute and enforcement provision,” although he declined to provide any details on how the mechanism will work.
    “We’ve developed a very extensive process, a few words still need to be agreed to”, Mnuchin said, noting that both sides are expected to set up “large offices to deal with these issues””.

    Well, there ya go. Simple is as simple does, who knew that large offices were all that it would take to do nothing. After all these years of trading with China, we now find out that the reason for this debacle was small offices.

  79. John Dale 2019-10-16 03:37

    Having the attention span of a goldfish is not a good from which to engage in an argument.

    Alex Jones was reporting on a credible study from a large liberal university.

    If there is contention in the science, that’s fine and we can argue that. But you behave like the man made it up. We are not arguing the science, here. We are arguing the credibility of a man who cited a valid scientific study, whom you say made it up or lied, which is a LIE that should not be used to judge Alex Jones’ credibility.

  80. jerry 2019-10-16 08:00

    You should be proud of yourself Dale with your acknowledgement of the fish family you belong to.

  81. mike from iowa 2019-10-16 08:39

    This about sums up Johnny Fraud perfectly…. From the article: “Goldfish are said to have an attention span of five seconds, which is approximately two seconds longer than a visitor to your website. ”Jan 1, 2019

  82. jerry 2019-10-16 10:12

    Q-Tip Pence just got shown the door by Turkey. Erdrogan basically told the Q Tip to go have sex with himself. Wonder what mother had to say about that. So now what? Chubby goes to congress and asks for what?

  83. John Dale 2019-10-16 10:20

    I just figured it out .. you aren’t looking for an intellectually honest forum to find the truth, the best way forward. For you, this is a support group where you seek reinforcement of your ideas (bad or good).


  84. mike from iowa 2019-10-16 11:56

    I just figured it out .. you aren’t looking for an intellectually honest forum to find the truth, the best way forward.

    You rely on Alex Jones and other right wing bomb throwers. Your self awareness meter just pegged out at absolute zero and I am having the best case of fantods ever.

    You related to the drumpf criminal enterprise?

  85. John Dale 2019-10-16 15:29

    The democrats on the committee pursuing impeachment should allow the minority to call witnesses.

  86. Debbo 2019-10-16 16:01

    Jerry, if we’d only known about “small offices”! That’s really funny.

    Mike, I think Dale relates to Insane Imbecile so well because he’s a narcissist too. You know, always having to tell us how smart he is, how he has the best information, but he’s not treated fairly (victimhood), knows all about the evil dangers of 5G, etc.

    I don’t think he’s a malignant narcissist like Lying Lunatic, but if he had that kind of power he might become so. Dale says much of the same kinds of ridiculous things and may be able to convince himself that some of those lies are actually true.

    Anyway, that’s my theory of Why John Dale is so bizarre. You’re welcome. ☺

  87. John Dale 2019-10-16 16:11

    .. and yet, at the end of the day, we’re just a few average blokes who aren’t President of The United States.


  88. jerry 2019-10-16 16:34

    Dale, the goldfish, is still carping.

  89. John Dale 2019-10-16 16:48

    jerry – I’m not a cruel person. Having a battle of wits with virtually unarmed folks is not in my constitution. It’s tempting sometimes, but I just feel bad about it .. like a total a-hole, so I’m going to be nice.

    Try this. President Trump’s hair. It’s orange. Like a goldfish. You should be able to make some hay out of that.

    Fire away. I’m sure he’ll never even know about it.

    Meanwhile, back at the ranch, there are a lot of great political issues that we can solve together here in South Dakota.

    This year, unlike some, we’ll have a LOT of movement in issues that matter to us. Will you be following the sessions?

  90. mike from iowa 2019-10-16 17:50

    Drumpf’s fake spray tan is what is orange about him. Makes the pastey white around his beady little eyes look like a mask.

  91. jerry 2019-10-18 09:16

    Dale, you’re not a cruel goldfish. You’re a carp. Enjoy being a bottom feeder.

  92. Debbo 2019-10-23 21:26

    “China is using the World Trade Organization (WTO), an American-made institution, to get even with the US.

    “Beijing is seeking $2.4 billion in retaliatory sanctions against Washington for non-compliance with a WTO ruling in a tariff dispute against the US.”


  93. John Dale 2019-11-03 09:24

    mike from iowa – “China sign Phase 1 of new trade deal”


    You should re-hang your American flag out in front of your house to celebrate.

  94. Porter Lansing 2019-11-03 09:41

    John Dale … Interesting cannabis discussion you’ve been having on another blog. FYI – My text analysis tool reveals that there’s one person that’s doing 90% on the insulting and attacking of you. It’s the same person we used to see on this blog, doing and saying the same things. Now using the name anonymous is a person who previously used Miranda – KM – Lynn – Jason and a couple other nicknames. They are a transgender person living in Lakeville, MN, originally from Aberdeen, SD. I know their real name but there’s no need to say it again, publicly.
    They also repost anti-cannabis propaganda from Kevin Sabet and Karen Randall.
    If a legalize law makes the ballot expect this discussion to go on until election day.

  95. mike from iowa 2019-11-03 09:42

    Uh, before you wet your red, white, blue drippers, maybe you’d better wait until they actually have an agreement. Even you know Drumpf will get rick rolled by the Chinese. He is a moron when it comes to deal making and has proved it since long before Putin ever installed him in kremlin annex west.

  96. John Dale 2019-11-03 09:44

    Porter Lansing – “text analysis tool”

    Nice! I used one of these in grad school. I also wrote an enterprise based AIML tool (they were driving them with XML at the time, making it difficult to crowd source the linguistic training).

    I used to let things like that upset me, but realized that each time it happens is an opportunity to help whoever it is increase their understanding. They don’t usually admit it at the point source of the argument, but I’ve caught more than one person parroting my arguments in other arenas.

    It really works.

    And I’m happy to have both outlets to write, explore ideas, and bring attention to the things I think are important in this life.

    In politics, the only thing worse than people talking bout you ..

  97. John Dale 2019-11-03 09:45

    mike from iowa – “Even you know Drumpf will get rick rolled by the Chinese”

    But my point is well taken, I hope. That we should be cheer-leading for good and congratulating those working hard, taking the heat while bringing it about.

  98. John Dale 2019-11-03 09:47

    mike from iowa – extra points for the rick rolling reference. I’m sad that Reddit, with its proud and important origins in privacy and freedom, was overtaken by the Chinese and rogue elements of our own CIA and turned into a propaganda mill for anti-Americanism.


  99. T 2019-11-03 10:55

    Everything he says now is carrots dangled in front of donkeys
    Spring won’t be much better if we get precipitation that is predicted. We don’t want aid, beans rallied but no crops. Corn is binned from here to Texas. Even if prices bounce back it won’t last because of surplus. The trade war deal of ag products is blue sky.

  100. mike from iowa 2019-11-03 11:35

    After 2 years the stuff Drumpf demanded from China are still just as unlikely to be delivered now as they were then.

    If one compared winning a trade war with the futility of getting drumpf to tell the truth, trade wars are a cinch.

  101. Debbo 2019-11-06 00:34

    Economic Oaf’s mangling of the ag economy continues.

    “More than a third of U.S. farm income in 2019 will come from the U.S. government in the form of the trade-war bailout, crop-insurance payouts and other federal assistance.

    “The U.S. Department of Agriculture projects farm income to be $88 billion. Of that, $19.5 billion will come from direct farm-payment programs and another projected $10.5 billion will come from crop-insurance indemnities. Farmers help pay for federal crop insurance, but the premiums are more than 60% subsidized.

    “In the past decade, farmers’ best year was 2013, when income reached $124 billion and government accounted for only 19% of that.

    “But now the trade war with China, which shut down the largest market for U.S. soybeans, has deepened a four-year slump in grain prices. Poor weather in May and June delayed planting enough to keep millions of acres in the U.S. fallow.” Strib paywall

    Wow. Farm welfare continues to expand. Economic Oaf is desperate to buy ag votes. Are SD’s farmers for sale cheap?

  102. John Dale 2019-11-06 07:48

    A lot of the comments about Trump’s trade plan lead me to believe that those commenting have not been involved in new venture startups. Is that true?

    Because you rarely make a profit right away in any business with tremendous up-side. There is always more risk, more investment, and more struggle involved in the beginning.

    Look no further than Tesla for evidence of this ..

    I’ve been involved in several new venture startups. There were always naysayers around that had to be weeded out. We always hoped they would just leave themselves, but occasionally we’d have to let them go.

    So my advice to those looking to every difficult signal coming out of our trade plan .. it is expected. What can you do to help it succeed?

    Being anti-Trump is not a viable action plan for success.

  103. mike from iowa 2019-11-06 07:59

    I thought the coyotes ate Johnny Fraud.

    For some reason or other I seriously doubt agriculture is a new venture startup.

    You can’t blame drumpf for the decline in prices. They started just before he took office. Right. I also don’t credit drumpf for the growing economy. It started nearly 8 years before Putin installed drumpf as un-American czar.

  104. John Dale 2019-11-06 08:00

    mike from iowa – so, you have never been involved in a new venture startup or even new line of business or execution of a new business strategy?

  105. Dicta 2019-11-06 08:28

    New venture startups like WeWork? Regardless, I think we can all be confident in Donald Trump because of his successful business rec… Wait, no. Not really.

  106. John Dale 2019-11-06 08:47

    What do you really know about Trump’s businesses? Not much. Neither do I.

    You’re missing the point, Dicta – 9/10 new venture startups do not make it. That’s neither good nor bad .. it’s just a fact. You put in the work and take the risk for that 1 resounding success.

    You could think of like this .. in the last 40 years, we’ve had a globalist startup that has *ahem* underperformed.

    So, it’s time to do another line of business .. and all pull together to make it as successful as possible.

    You can find a lot of examples of business/startup failures. That’s not the point.

    The point is this – there are new venture startups in process right now that we can help be successful in the future.

    That’s entrepreneurship.

  107. o 2019-11-06 09:05

    John, In many ways , Trump was the Kardashians before the Kardashians – famous for being famous. He has AMAZING name/brand recognition, but I am not sure you can point to successful business ventures he orchestrated. He can put his name on something, and by virtue of that act alone, add value.

    He managed to fail at casinos – where you literally have the ability to print your now money. His investment portfolio from the moment he inherited his father’s business underperformed from indexed stock marker investing (so his decisions were worse than the marker in general). There is a litany of horrible business practices revolving around exploitation.

    I cannot say that the is a great businessman. I put him in the category of a great promoter, but unlike P. T. Barnum or Vincent McMahn, there is no real innovative product to go wit that promotion.

  108. Dicta 2019-11-06 09:08

    Treating the foreign policy of a nation with over 300 million people as a startup is mindbogglingly stupid. A shareholder putting in investment funds is not the same as the wellbeing of citizens who live in one nation. What do I know about Trump’s businesses? You mean besides the multiple chapter 11 bankruptcies, swindling people with Trump University and defaulting on his Trump airlines?

  109. John Dale 2019-11-06 09:14

    o – “there is no real innovative product to go wit that promotion”

    How do you know this with complete certainty? Given that real estate businesses are often designed to avoid taxes and show a loss, how do you know?

    The Trump empire is designed to be a tax shelter. At that, it has been enormously effective. President Trump’s tax returns will show that, and people will be outraged, but they will attack President Trump while leaving Gates, Buffet, and Bezos alone.

    I don’t care about the President’s Taxes. I care about USMCA. I don’t care about his divorces. I care about infrastructure. I don’t care about the President’s hair or the way he says things or how many grammar mistakes are in his tweets. I care about how H1B workers are building unconstitutional information systems as a beach head for globalist banks to pillage the natural resources of The USA. I don’t care if the President makes money while he’s in office (he hasn’t, his net worth has diminished). But I do care that Pelosi and the Bidens weren’t rich BEFORE they took office ..

    Fix H1B, reclaim our information systems, put the USPS in play to handle our social network communications (scrap FaceBook and the lot of them)., quit harassing The President, and pass the trade deals. USMCA, infrastructure, the wall, border security, etc .. stop focusing on President Trump and start solving America’s problems.

  110. John Dale 2019-11-06 09:18

    Dicta – “Treating the foreign policy of a nation with over 300 million people as a startup is mindbogglingly stupid”

    You completely failed to justify this position.

    Why not?

    The USA is not a startup, but USMCA is a re-startup of trade. We should raid silicon valley sultans and restart our H1B based information systems industry.

    I’m not saying form a new country. I’m saying reconsider the product portfolio and execution of extracted resources within various business initiatives. Changing our approach to energy should be managed like a startup.

    Have you never been involved in a new venture? They represent organized opportunities to reinvent, leave old outmoded ideas behind and facilitate change in a conservative manner.

  111. mike from iowa 2019-11-06 09:20

    Johnny Fraud, you sure the coyotes didn’t eat you? Your entire premise is irrelevant. Just another rabbit hole.

  112. John Dale 2019-11-06 09:39

    mike from iowa – “you sure the coyotes didn’t eat you”

    This is psychologically sordid. Get some help.

    If you don’t have an illness, perhaps it’s just an intellectual laziness that could be remedied with some psychological calisthenics.

    Try sudoku, spook.

  113. mike from iowa 2019-11-08 16:50

    Well, Fraud, may I suggest you stay the hell out of rabbit holes and lessen your chances of getting eaten by top notch scavengers.

    Drumpf, the moron, said today he hasn’t agreed to any tariffs reductions with China. Remove this stain and then jail it.

  114. John Dale 2019-11-08 20:10

    mike from iowa – you are perhaps the most diplomatic person this side of the pecos. Trump could learn a lot from you, couldn’t he. :D

  115. Debbo 2019-11-08 20:18

    Ignoramus could learn a lot from just about anyone he doesn’t like. Mike could teach him plenty, but Ignoramus is too insane to learn, even from his favorite GOP suck ups.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.