Press "Enter" to skip to content

Joe Lowe Knows Firefighting; Trump Does Not

As a Catholic and a fireman, my friend Joe Lowe can speak with much more authority than I can about the conflagration that devastated la Cathédrale de Notre Dame yesterday.

My friend and former State Fire Chief Joe Lowe can also say with authority and amazement that Donald Trump somehow managed to make even this sad loss all about his own arrogant stupidity:

Joe Lowe, firefighter.
Joe Lowe, firefighter.

POTUS the Fire Chief

It is unbelievable that this president thinks he can give advice on things he knows nothing about. His solution for the California Wildfires was raking the forests. Now he tweets ““So horrible to watch the massive fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris,” Perhaps flying water tankers could be used to put it out. Must act quickly!” He is an embarrassment the world community with comments like this.

His ignorant comment shows he thinks he has all the answers. He does not. Water weighs 8.34 pounds per gallon. State of SD Guard Black Hawk Helicopters at one time carried 660-gallon buckets. A C-130H/Q aircraft retrofitted with an in-floor discharge system uses a removable 3,500- or 4,000-gallon water tank. That would create a destructive payload if dropped on any building.

His idea would have the potential to collapse what is left of Notre Dame. So Mr. President stick to something else beside firefighting. I say this as a 36 year veteran of the fire service and the former Fire Chief/Director for the State of South Dakota Division of Wildland Fire.

—Joe Lowe, Rapid City, South Dakota

Fortunately, the French emergency responders agreed with our firefighting expert’s tactical assessment of the situation.


  1. grudznick 2019-04-16 19:04

    Mr. Lowe, what if they used those AH-445-G dispersion heads on the flying tankers to create a nice, saturating April shower to douse those flames? Did you think about that? I’m not saying the heinous Mr. Trump should be in charge of fires, but certainly the public has decided No Go Joe Lowe should not be in charge of government.

  2. Adam 2019-04-16 19:12

    Grudznick, what if Trump delegated more and sought intelligent opinions from real experts rather than bloviating like a narcissist country boy?

  3. grudznick 2019-04-16 19:14

    Mr. Adam, that would probably be a good thing. I do not mean to suggest Mr. Trump seek opinions from Mr. Lowe, just real experts in the matters of government. I think we would all be better off in the longer runnings if your idea came to be.

  4. Roger Cornelius 2019-04-16 20:07

    Just because Joe Lowe couldn’t win the governorship in a deeply redneck state doesn’t make him a loser.
    No Go Joe Lowe was and is South Dakota’s loss.
    Adam, don’t feed the thing called Grudznick.

  5. John Dale 2019-04-16 21:11

    Sooo .. President Trump offers a solution that might or might not work. Seems a rather short shrift of his ability. If nothing else, President Trump showing his passion to do something is refreshing. Some presidents might, instead of suggestion swift action in crisis, convene a panel to discuss a proposal for an architecture for a plan to begin to contemplate the problem. If nothing else, Trump is a man of action. FWIW, rather than go direct like this, to bolster your comedic enterprise, perhaps you could have worked in somebody peeing on the fire from a Russian aircraft.

  6. leslie 2019-04-16 21:39

    1. Merriam Webster (below), mr dale pretty much nails it, while you attempt to stupidly defend your president. quaint. Republican, huh? Of the SD variety? Vote for trump AND noem, didja? Deplorable is what HRC calls your ilk. I’d say you are more vexatious. Refreshing? OMF@ckingG. Action? Really? * BTW, do you have one of those stickers on your pickup with the Marine pissing on Iran, Iraq, OBL, POWs, or Obama?

    Please. Every one here except grdz is smarter than your precious. grdz just uses his niece to google for him, so he says.

    : slow of mind : obtuse
    : given to unintelligent decisions or acts : acting in an unintelligent or careless manner
    : lacking intelligence or reason : brutish
    : dulled in feeling or sensation : torpid
    still stupid from the sedative
    : marked by or resulting from unreasoned thinking or acting : senseless
    a stupid decision
    : lacking interest or point
    a stupid event
    : vexatious, exasperating
    the stupid car won’t start

    * Dale, you seen this?

    (wipes off screen, chin, keyboard)

  7. Donald Pay 2019-04-16 21:48

    John Dale said, “…Trump is a man of action.” AAAHHHAAAHHAAA! I almost peed when I read that. The comedy by the righties just gets better and better here at DFP. Grudz, you’re going to have to up your game.

    What action has Trump ever demonstrated? The man is Il Duce. He can huff and puff and strut, maybe he can grab women by their vaginas. Oh, I just thought of something he acted on that actually got done: he can separated children from their mothers. I’ll give you that. But proving himself as a mini-Hitler is not the sort of action most would consider an accomplishment. As far as doing anything constructive or good, he’s got bone spurs.

    I’m just happy Trump is an incompetent blowhard. If he actually did much of anything, it would result in destruction and pathos.

  8. John Dale 2019-04-17 00:49

    Why do you suppose he is an incompetent blowhard? I know that’s one of the narrative out there from his opposition, but it seems like, despite Mueller’s $30+ million investigation, 90% negative coverage from legacy dinosaur media, losing the house to a crazy mafia daughter, and subverts in his cabinet, he’s pushing a lot of his agenda anyway. It’s kind of refreshing to see a candidate’s promises mapping to his actions/intentions.

  9. John Dale 2019-04-17 00:53

    Tax cuts, a MOAB->ISIS, Venezuela, NK, Prison Reform, Legalized Hemp/CBD, refurbished sections of wall, GDP, unemployment #’s, renegotiating treaties, taking a hard stance against China, using Twitter to end-around totalitarian media, VW EV plant. The only things that I’m really bummed about are that he hasn’t booted all the tech H1B’s out of the country (part and parcel to the censorship and technological subversion and undermining of the 1st, 4th, and 5th Amendments).

  10. Adam 2019-04-17 01:37

    “If nothing else, Trump is a man of action.”

    Hell yeah! Every time I hear a tornado siren, I pull out the rifle and stand on the front porch so I can shoot that thing dead before it gets to my house – because I too am a man of action!

    No matter what you do, it pays to be a man of action!

  11. Adam 2019-04-17 01:40

    Even if you have to destroy the one thing you’re trying to save, DO IT BABY!

  12. jerry 2019-04-17 01:43

    French Fire marshals on site agree with Joe Lowe.

    “As Notre-Dame in Paris burned, US President Donald Trump tweeted some advice to French firefighters.

    “Perhaps flying water tankers could be used to put it out. Must act quickly!”

    But doing that would have brought the ancient cathedral crashing down, French fire chiefs told AFP Tuesday.”–spt.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZGFpbHlrb3MuY29tL3N0b3JpZXMvMjAxOS80LzE2LzE4NTA4MzAvLUZyZW5jaC1maXJlLWNoaWVmLVlvdXItcHJlc2lkZW50LWlzLXRyZXMtc3R1cGlkZS1BbWVyaWNhP3V0bV9jYW1wYWlnbj10cmVuZGluZw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAM0T5udFtukwF5Ezo8W_gHxwlpLtSUwBR88xlddogV-vhe5SfZAgyDS53eiRgvhuXDkUSQrmR999JPml-Dya4OS2xcN7G0ugHv97_W6IEvG5zkNX__6PeK-T3UpVhxgr55qj4qUKDIxHvQJtxxX5EJ48hXcOShQAGMZ3rnYeWSWL

    They call trumps advise “risible” meaning “provoking laughter through being ludicrous”. trump continues to make us a laughingstock to the world. trump and his followers are indeed ludicrous.

  13. John Dale 2019-04-17 01:57

    “stand on the front porch so I can shoot that thing dead” — nice rhetoric, but facts and observations and contextualization of real things make for a better argument. This is why President Trump’s approval numbers are so high.

    “Perhaps flying water tankers could be used to put it out. Must act quickly” — President Trump’s use of the word “perhaps” would be complimented by a modification to the second sentence in the tweet, like this: “must act quickly in any event”. It doesn’t appear to me that he was trying to push that specific solution as much as offering a solution to the problem along with an urgent plea to stop the fire.

    Why are Trump and his followers ludicrous? That’s not an argument. This kind of conclusion must be supported with some premises!

  14. Adam 2019-04-17 02:02

    John Dale thinks Trump was making suggestions to the French fire fighters during Notre Dame disaster via Twitter! LOL ROFL LOL – that was great – I needed that!

  15. Adam 2019-04-17 02:05

    “Ya know, those French people don’t seem to be so good at putting out fires, maybe I can help with a tweet?” -Donald Trump


  16. John Dale 2019-04-17 02:06

    [thinks Trump was making suggestions] — now an ad hominem attack. Many thanks to the alt-left for saving us from the Russians. Laughing on the floor for virtually no reason .. sounds like a mental condition. :D

  17. John Dale 2019-04-17 02:07

    I know the last couple of years have been tough on you guys. Maybe Crazy Bernie will pull through this time if he can overcome the overt corruption in the alt-left party.

  18. Adam 2019-04-17 02:07

    “I bet those silly Frenchmen haven’t considered all of their options.” -Donald Trump

    HAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh man, that was fun.

  19. John Dale 2019-04-17 02:12

    So, here’s the part of the program where all of the sudden the D’s pivot to become the party of war and conflict because “orange man bad”.


    Trump Vetoes Bill to End U.S. Military Support for Saudi-led War in Yemen
    President Donald Trump issued the second veto of his presidency Tuesday, stopping a congressional resolution that would have sought to end US involvement in the Saudi-led war in Yemen.

    “This resolution is an unnecessary, dangerous attempt to weaken my constitutional authorities, endangering the lives of American citizens and brave service members, both today and in the future,” Trump wrote to the Senate Thursday.

  20. Adam 2019-04-17 02:19

    John Dale, that makes PERFECT SENSE! LOL! You are a good laugh. I know it’s late and I’m tired, but you sir, I am pretty sure, are a very funny man!

  21. jerry 2019-04-17 03:08

    Look to China to solve the war in Yemen as the United States only wants to sell bombs to our new buddies, the Saudi’s. China has a military presence directly across the sea in Djibouti that will add to it’s Belt and Road initiative through commerce.

    Notre Dame has been pledged nearly one billion Euro’s for the new remodel of the Cathedral, nice.

  22. Cory Allen Heidelberger Post author | 2019-04-17 07:11

    John, John, John: Trump is not showing his passion to do something. Trump is showing his passion to barge in, act like a know-it-all, and be the center of attention when really he has nothing to offer.

    As Joe Lowe pointed out, Trump’s comment was entirely unhelpful and uninformed. It was Archie Bunker with his beer in his armchair, not Presidential.

  23. Joe Lowe 2019-04-17 13:29

    Dear grudznick ( or what your real name is)

    I just have to address your arrogant and ill-informed comments. First of all, you remind me of the guy that sits in the bleachers and never gets on the field to play ball. All of us in the fire service are on the field fighting the good fight. In the fire service, every time we roll out the door, on a fire, we have no choice but fight to win.

    Here my history :

    1. Selected by the Federal Government as a National Type 2 Incident Commander for one of the 33 national teams that manage incidents of national significance.

    2. I was in charge of major wildfires in 4 states. Was the Incident Commander for Hurricane Gustav and Ike for the City of New Orleans. Managed major flood operations in 2 states. I received outstanding performance evaluations for the incidents I was in charge of.

    3. In addition, I dedicated 36 years of my life to public service in the fire department.

    So no go Joe has commanded large scale incidents under the direst times. I have also been a Mayor a city of 100,000. So I have a proven record in Government.

    If you want to continue your constant attacks on me, get out from behind your assumed name and let talk in person. Secondly, I guess you don’t know what you don’t know. This put you back in the bleachers and not on the field. It’s time to come of the closet and show who you are.

    Joe Lowe

  24. Debbo 2019-04-18 00:28

    Mr. Lowe, I’m sorry that a man of your integrity has been attacked by Grudzjer. I know who he is, as do others. If you want to know, ask Cory to give you my email address.

    Grudzjer is a consummate liar and a mean spirited bastard. His idea of fun is to attack and bully people. He’s been quite clear about how much he enjoys that. He’s just a small, petty man of no dignity or decency. I don’t read his comments because there is nothing of value in them.

    You deserve better. All of DFP does.

  25. Debbo 2019-04-18 00:28

    Mr. Lowe, are you on FB?

  26. Adam 2019-04-18 01:57

    Joe Lowe and Paris fire fighting experts were all on the same page as to how to best save all that could be saved of the Notre Dame Cathedral, Trumptards are idiots, and that is all there is to it.

  27. leslie 2019-04-18 04:46

    Dale: “narrative”? Wow, really?

    “Pushing his agenda?” Previously i listed stats of all his losses in federal court. He’s passed ONE republican bill: to cut taxes for himself and billionaires.

    “Ad hominem attack [by]… the ‘alt-left’”. You mean the 34 protesters run down in Charlotte after your joy boys and neo-nazis chanted “You…[and] Jews will not replace us.”? More right wing messeging, eh?

    Rupert Murdoch’s echo chamber is fact-free but i understand you feel your repetition of that propaganda should not be subject to becoming, personally, a laughing stock. Ludicrous.

    Finally, remember when Republicans flew to Moscow to assure Putin his meddling in the election to favor Trump could lead to a better relationship; and also when they wrote Iran and said its nuclear treaty wouldn’t last under a new president and congress. But both houses of congress approved resolution/War Powers bill withdrawing from the Saudi/Yemen/Iran war is a “dangerous threat”, you parrot, to our Citizens and military? Darth Chaos Trump is a distraction figure running on out of control adrenalin , not a man of action.

    Is this evidence trump is an action figure in the real world? His practiced stern silloette? Nothing you have said in this thread is legitimately defensible.

  28. Joe Lowe 2019-04-18 22:53

    I am on facebook. Thank you for your comments.

    Joe Lowe

  29. John Dale 2019-04-18 23:25

    Interesting you mention Charlotte. When I studied that issue, I found that one group was funneled into another to foment the conflict. Rather than let some NeoNazi goofballs have their free speech, the event was engineered to create localized (and perhaps regional/national) conflict. At that time, the “deep state” believed that a race based civil war was still possible, and that it would cover the indiscretions of the past 30-40 years. BTW, did anybody see what the over/under was on Trump/Russia collusion? I didn’t take the bet .. don’t like to gamble outside entrepreneurship and business, where I have some control over the outcome.

  30. John Dale 2019-04-18 23:27

    “Joe Lowe and Paris fire fighting experts were all on the same page as to how to best save all that could be saved of the Notre Dame Cathedral, Trumptards are idiots, and that is all there is to it.” I was with you up to “Trump doesn’t know how to fight fires.” But the subsequent generalization seems pretty bigoted. I mean, really – you’re talking about a group of over 60 million people. Try replacing “trumptards” with “blacks”, or “Native Americans”. The statement is just as trumptarded.

  31. Roger Cornelius 2019-04-18 23:36

    I’m often called a ‘classic liberal or even a ‘libtard’.

  32. Adam 2019-04-19 02:29

    I rest my case.

  33. John Dale 2019-04-19 07:54

    [I rest my case] – what case there, Matlock?

  34. Cory Allen Heidelberger Post author | 2019-04-19 08:45

    Wow: so John Dale has managed to co-opt this factual post from an expert and turn it into ravings about the deep-state and the false equivalence of portraying criticism of an incompetent white man with generations of genuine racism. How utterly disgusting.

    Joe Lowe is an expert. So are the French emergency responders. They agree that Trump’s air tanker tweet was bad firefighting. Instead of offering words of encouragement, Trump played Archie Bunker armchair quarterback, pretending to expertise that he does not have and that, if acted upon, would have caused more damage. There is nothing racist or conspiratorial in making those true statements about the selfish incompetence of that man in the White House. Nor is there anything racist or conspiratorial in saying that people like John Dale who defend such incompetence for their own selfish reasons aren’t thinking straight.

  35. John Dale 2019-04-19 09:11

    [There is nothing racist or conspiratorial[ — Well, except may be the Tuskegee experiment? Something else you managed to salvage from the fire .. the race card. Wow, that was some amazing intellectual gymnastics. Go back, review your assertions, and add some information about “why”. Why do you think Trump’s firefighting recommendation was racist? What are my own selfish motives for supporting Trump’s “incompetence”? Why is Trump incompetent? To whom? While you’re at it, why is his approval rating so high? The First Amendment exists not in the speaker, but in the listener, who must temper her actions with reason, evaluating the recommendations of others carefully. Trump’s firefighting recommendation is a great example of that. If, as you say, more damage would have been done with Trump’s recommendation, it’s a good thing those fighting the fire didn’t listen. Nobody’s perfect, especially not President Trump. That said, I’m with Lou Dobbs – the fire’s beginning, acceleration, and eventual extinguishment were all planned. Prediction: Macron is done since his “bright idea” did not unite the people. The outpouring of financial support for the church by billionaires is offensive to the working class in France who can’t afford their living expenses. Amazing time to be alive. FWIW, “John Dale is selfish, dumb, etc” is an ad hominem attack that erodes your credibility (it erodes mine as well to the extent I commit this fallacy of reasoning). Don’t you ever tire of being an alt-left attack dog?

  36. Cory Allen Heidelberger Post author | 2019-04-19 09:20

    So, to be clear, we all agree that Trump’s firefighting recommendation was bad advice and well outside his area of expertise, right?

    Can we also agree that part of the skills we can rightfully expect of executives are to recognize the limits of their expertise and to not pronounce on issues on which they are not qualified to pronounce and instead defer to real experts?

    And “alt-left”? Where’s that coming from, John? Please stop listening to the voices in your head and deal with the things your real neighbors are saying.

    I’m not alt-left. I am the left… not that that has anything to do with how selfish and dumb Trump is and how mistaken you are to defend his selfish stupidity and to try to turn Notre Dame into just another conspiracy theory. (Seriously? Lou Dobbs says Macron planned the fire? Give me a break. let’s focus on things for which we have evidence, not the fantasies some people wish they could peddle.)

  37. John Dale 2019-04-19 09:31

    I think the disposition of this site to not recognize valid points on the right indicates a level of extremism that earns the “alt” designation.

    We are in agreement. Trump is not a firefighter. Nothing you’re saying about his stupidity or incompetence follows from this – making these conclusions is extremist.

    Nice discussion save the personal insults. Thanks.

  38. mike from iowa 2019-04-19 11:05

    But, but Drumpf himself is a self professed expert on everything. Just ask him. According to the written answers in the Mueller repor, the man with the world’s best memory couldn’t remember much 9of anything abiout the whole election/Russia investigation. A few short months ago he was praising wiki-leaks for helping him get elected. Now he claims he knows nothing about wiki leaks.

    Drumpf claimed he was smarter than his generals, smarter than any of his lawyers. He claimed he was far smarter than an uncle who was tenured professor at MIT for forty years and yet Drumpf didn’t know what tons of water dumped on a fiery inferno would do to the structure.

    This ass clown deserves every bit of humiliation we can heap on his orange patootie. Finally, the guy lies every time he opens his mouth. What does that say about the people that voted for and still back him?

  39. Adam 2019-04-19 12:46

    Guess who else deserves every bit of humiliation that can be heaped upon them? Trumptards who still side with Trump over the rule of law and over every single other human being on Earth – even expert firefighters.

    Conservatives now own the dim-witted dishonestly they’ve pushed for years now and even though South Dakota largely doesn’t get it, America now knows it.

  40. bearcreekbat 2019-04-19 12:48

    While you guys are discussing Trump, I have a couple questions for John Dale based on recent news reports that relate to Trump and his unsoliticited fire fighting advice.

    1. Do you believe that the Russian government wants to make USA a better country or sew discord and chaos in the USA to gain some advantage over the USA?

    2. Which of the above goals do you believe the Russian government hoped to accomplish by interfering with the 2016 presidental election in an effort to get Trump elected – in other words, why did Russia decide that it was in their interest to see Trump as POTUS?

  41. jerry 2019-04-19 13:09

    There are some billionaires in the United States that are philanthropists John Dale and we have more poor and hungry here than in France. Joe Lowe knows firefighting, trump doesn’t know anything but corruption. Sorry to pop your cork dude, but trump is now proven to have shown his arse.

  42. jerry 2019-04-19 13:34

    A select committee on impeachment from the House would get the un-redacted Mueller report immediately.

  43. jerry 2019-04-19 13:36

    If trump would’ve bombed Notre Dame, it would have killed 180,000 bees in the hives on the roof. Joe Lowe knows firefighting and so do the Paris firemen, so the bees survived and are doing well in their hives.

  44. mike from iowa 2019-04-19 13:40

    I believe Jerry Nadler gave Barr until May 1st to hand over un redacted Mueller report to congress.

  45. John Dale 2019-04-19 13:43

    [bees survived and are doing well in their hives] – that is a very good thing, Jerry, and props to Joe and all other firemen. They are my heroes!

  46. mike from iowa 2019-04-19 16:00

    Interesting article, John Dale. A robot could work wonders in a building fire. Probably not in a forest fire. Thanks for the article. I am going to copy and paste at another liberal site that has some of the nastiest white racist trolls to be found anywhere.

  47. bearcreekbat 2019-04-19 17:04

    Since John Dale has posted two comments after my comment asking him his opinion on Russia/Trump but has failed to even mention my inquiry, I suspect he has decide to ignore it in the hope that it will go away because an honest answer to the second question makes him extremely uncomfortable. No one these days would claim Russia has the best interests of the USA in mind. This sheds painful light on why Russia took such aggressive steps to support Trump in 2016.

    Just as Trump’s ideas about how to fight the Notre Dame fire would have caused a great deal of unnecessary damage, his ideas about how to govern have created substantial unnecessary internal and external damage to the USA just as desired by the Russian government.

  48. Debbo 2019-04-19 22:50

    That’s true BCB. Pootie was desperate to get Sec. Clinton defeated because she would have been the most formidable foe he’d faced in his dictatorship. He knew White Whiner, on the other hand, was a dimwitted, easily manipulated and blackmailed patsy.

  49. Adam 2019-04-20 00:51

    Putin aided Trump as a mechanism to weaken America in more ways than just to help Trump win.

    He did it to flex his muscle from across the Atlantic Ocean and plant seeds of philosophy which have horribly failed other people in countries of the past.

    40% of Americans are susceptible to letting the worst parts of human history repeat over and over, and Putin knows it because of measurable Internet and social media data.

    It’s only because 90% of conservatives are primitive and filthy animals that any of this ever came to be.

  50. John Dale 2019-04-20 06:43

    [90% of conservatives are primitive and filthy animals] — Wow, Adam. Can I see your surveys? This is the kind of thinking that will get the ol’ orange man another term. As long as there is FUD like this, there will be Presidents like Trump.

    [why did Russia decide that it was in their interest to see Trump as POTUS] — This is a question that presupposes a bad premise. Russia made no “decision”. I think you’re denying some facts here. One one them: there were 60,000,000+ Americans who voted for President Trump because they were sick and tired of the economy of personal attacks and slander. Is Trump perfect? NO. Are all of his supporters? NO. Is the extreme left wing being controlled by agenda 21 and the UN to redraw our borders and abscond with our resources? YES. Who owns Wharf? CANADA? Did you google Uranium One Scandal? “Projection”. The reason the conservatives are in office right now is because they are winning the arguments. If any of you keyboard cowgirls want to reverse that trend, listen to my podcast.

  51. Cory Allen Heidelberger Post author | 2019-04-20 07:42

    Whoa, really? The fact that conservatives don’t like being criticized or called names justifies electing an incompetent leader? Why don’t we liberals get to say, “Boo hoo! Conservatives called us libtards! We get to have Al Franken as President!”?

    Oh, wait: Al Franken, while a sexual harasser of a lesser degree than Donald Trump, would be competent.

    “Boo hoo! Fox News said mean things about us! We get to have Dennis Kucinich as President!”

    Oh, wait, Dennis Kucinich, while radically liberal, is a decent, moral, and competent dude.

    “Boo hoo! Donald Trump made nasty tweets about us! We get Hillary Clinton as President!”

    Oh, wait….

    I’m having trouble thinking of genuinely incompetent liberal Presidential candidates. Please help me think of one, a person we can all agree, as we do about Trump and firefighting, gives bad, harmful advice about how to conduct various public functions. Even if we can come up with that example, the difference here is that I won’t sit here making excuses for having that person be our next President. I’ll say, “Obviously that person is making un-Presidential statements and is not fit to occupy the White House.” The fact that someone calls me names does not justify electing an incompetent leader of my choosing.

    Translation: right-wing radicals don’t get affirmative action for being wrong. Being wrong and being told you’re wrong doesn’t make you a victim of discrimination.

    “Americans… voted for Trump because they were sick and tired of… personal attacks and slander.” So they voted for a man who engages daily in personal attacks? That makes no sense.

    Justifying a vote for Trump requires justifying incompetence (as explained by Joe Lowe above) and hypocrisy (as demonstrated in John Dale’s rhetorical contortion act).

  52. John Dale 2019-04-20 09:03

    [voted for Trump because they were sick and tired of… personal attacks and slander.] — that’s exactly correct. Trump is a result of “anything you can do we can do better”.

    The extreme left created the Trump Presidency. I’ve met a lot of intellectually honest middle-left citizens who readily admit that the media and intelligence services are corrupt.

    It’s just “the way things are” we (the left and the right), so deal with it. There is no morality, there are no rules, really, so just bend over.

    Yet, even on the left, when it is more convenient, this type of cogency is embraced (as it should be, but not just when it is convenient).

    “Name one moral action that can be taken by a religious person that cannot also be taken by an atheist.” — Christopher Hitchens, Hitchens Razor

    The free market for ideas had so far degraded that it manufactured the Trump Presidency. Even the most hardened, ardent left wing pundits admit that (Bill Maher mostly notably).

    I represent a big piece of acoustic foam in a huge echo chamber or inbred ideas wrapped in rhetoric and slander.

    .. and I’m happy to be here, but expect to be banned at any moment for the crimes of being informative, cogent, valid, and sound in my arguments.

  53. John Dale 2019-04-20 09:09

    For an example of totalitarian control, I searched “john dale unseen war” in google, and my NPR Tiny Desk entry came-up first. Today? Not even on the front page. I had to use to find it. Lastly, I’ll leave you with this. The system as designed does not want effective, intellectually honest people. It wants to destroy these “good people”, because they stand in the way of a desired utopian outcome that will never come. With that I invite you to enjoy this, and to come on my podcast anytime to hash through issues and understand one another better, face to face.

  54. jerry 2019-04-20 09:38

    Folks here in South Dakota voted for trump because they were just too damn successful and wanted to give back. They were tired of not paying taxes and getting so many public services, like infrastructure, that they came in droves for the hope and change trump offered. South Dakotan’s wanted a manly man to lead them and voted the trump/putin ticket because they loves them a shirtless man on horseback.

  55. jerry 2019-04-20 09:52

    Could be the Lou Dobbs/Michelle Bachmann reasoning why John Dale/and the sycophants voted for trump.

    “Pastor Robert Jeffress always talks about this president. God sent this president. He is a person of providence. And I’ll tell you the evidence is accumulating mightily to support the pastor’s view” From unhinged Lou…

    Indeed Mueller just proved that trump is a man of providence, check this out.

  56. John Dale 2019-04-20 10:07

    “Logic is the chastity belt of the mind!” — Unknown

  57. jerry 2019-04-20 10:25

    “A nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse.”

  58. bearcreekbat 2019-04-20 11:29

    John Dale says “Russia made no “decision”. I think you’re denying some facts here.” Then in your view, John, Russia must not have interfered in the 2016 election since to do so they would have had to have “made a decision” to do so? Okay . . ..

    After their reaction to the Mueller report we are beginning to see another apparent motivation of some Trump voters and supporters. He provides an example of someone who can “get away with” almost anything. This type of Trump voter might want to “get away with” not paying taxes, violating court orders, doing whatever he wants regardless of rules that might prohibit that conduct. Trump is their guru, their hero, the guy who is “bulletproof,” the model of everything that this type of Trump supporter wishes to be. Hence, this type of Trump supporter sees only joy in denying any evidence of lies, fraud, incompetence, and Russia’s choice of helping Trump in the election to harm the USA.

    It is not a particularly unusual phenomenon. In the 1930’s such folks adored the cold blooded killers, Bonnie and Clyde. Movies with protagonist “anti-heros,” about vigilantes and cops in movies like Dirty Harry, Magnum Force, The Enforcer, Sudden Impact and The Dead Pool,who take the law into their own hands attract this type of Trump supporter. Think of the various vigilantes in our country like the Minutemen or The Arizona Border Recon who are anxious to take the law into their own hands to advance whatever narrative they find compelling. Mass shootings are an extreme example. Tax protestors and greedy tax evaders who refuse to comply with tax laws, or invent fictitious superior laws, because they think can get away with it and don’t have to follow the rules that perjoratively labeled “sheeple” follow. Add the “supremacists” and “nationalists” who believe that laws protecting minorities can be ignored with impugnity. The goals and desires of such groups offer plain insight into the reasons they choose to follow an anti-hero like Trump and cheer or make absurd excuses for his openly, as well as surreptitious, unlawful conduct.

  59. John Dale 2019-04-20 11:53

    [Bonnie and Clyde] — the Main Stream media propped them up as heroes despite being cold blooded killers; psychopaths. Trump’s disposition toward main stream media would have served the public interest with respect to Bonnie and Clyde.

    Would you endorse vigilantism and/or revolution if at some point the US government was completely commandeered by a hostile foreign power?

    I think the reality is that the parties have been designed to fragment the populace, which is why neither platform makes complete sense. D’s are this way, R’s are this way, and they are both 50% wrong by design.

    bearcreekbat – You never addressed “uranium on the tarmac” and the Uranium One Scandal.

    After review, are you willing to concede that, at least to some extent, the extreme left aka deep state democracy hating bureaucracy is projecting at least SOME of their Russia integration onto Trump?

    FWIW, I conceded that Trump is not a firefighter.

  60. mike from iowa 2019-04-20 12:07

    The only scandal with Uranium 1 is wingnuts ignore the facts and timelines because Fake Noize tells them to. This non-scandal has been debunked a million times and wingnuts keep bringing it up.

    Wingnuts really need a job or a hobby.

  61. leslie 2019-04-20 12:10


    Imagine if Nashville Republican songwriters were as good as the 6,000,000 guitar pickers there (…just listening to NPR paradise fire coverage about amateur firefighters in the way of professionals who saved all but two homes in a particular, very dangerous area area. The lyrics could not have been worse, while the pedal steel player—the real soul of the backing track—soared).

    Everywhere you look Republicans are capitalizing on newsworthy events. Tiger Woods finally wins? The Cheater in Chief immediately is in the headlines. Especially on Fox News.

  62. bearcreekbat 2019-04-20 12:34

    John Dale, okay first the non-scandal “Uranium One Scandal” advanced by various right wing conspiracy theorists as explained by Forbes, not exactly a left wing apologist.

    To recap, in 2015, Breitbart News editor Peter Schweizer claimed that donations to the Clinton Foundation were behind the Obama Administration’s controversial 2010 deal that gave Moscow control of a large swath of American uranium interests.

    And by large, we mean really, really small.

    But any money going to the Clinton Foundation occurred years before this deal surfaced, and came from a fellow philanthropist, Canadian Frank Guistra, who had divested himself from uranium years before this Uranium One deal.

    . . .

    The State Department and several government agencies on the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States first unanimously approved the 2010 partial sale of Canadian mining company Uranium One to the Russian nuclear giant Rosatom, supposedly giving Moscow control of more than 20% of America’s uranium supply.

    And by 20%, we really mean almost zero.

    Those U.S. facilities obtained by Russia produced almost nothing for years before this sale. Uranium One couldn’t give these facilities away. But they do have good milling capacity to process ore, if anyone gives it to them, which hadn’t happened in years. Theoretically, they could process 20% of our ore, but that has never happened.

    Besides, Russia can’t export any uranium they produce in the U.S. anyway. They do not possess a Nuclear Regulatory Commission export license. And never should. Any export would have to be approved on a case-by-case basis by the U.S. Government, as sometimes occurs.

    . . .

    Candidate Trump jumped on this issue during the 2016 campaign trail, but as Secretary, Clinton was not involved in the committee review, never intervened on the matter and there were so many other agencies involved in the recommendation that there was no there there.

    . . .

    As Jeffrey Lewis, a nuclear nonproliferation expert at the Middlebury Institute, described it, Russia’s purchase of the company “had as much of an impact on national security as it would have if they set the money on fire.”

    . . .

    However, even though there was no wrongdoing on the part of the Administration or the Clintons, and no national security reason for anyone to oppose this deal, some still want to make it another Bengazhi.

    As a scandal, this issue lacks relevance since Clinton is now a private citizen and Russian meddling in our 2016 election has become a bigger issue. In fact, this uranium deal now seems to have more to do with Mueller’s present investigation than with Clinton.

    In the end, this Russian deal just wasn’t that important and had no national security ramifications.

    The only mainstream media I have seen try to make a hero out of a con-man and repeated lawbreaker is Fox news. And as best I can tell, Trump encourages Fox’s spin by rewarding Fox employees with jobs despite questionable qualifications of many appointees.

    As for your hypothetical about supporting vigilantism, no I would not support it. Instead, I would be willing to join legitimate efforts by our government to defend against “a hostile foreign power,” like Russia for example.

    I can find no projection of any support or encouragement of Russian interference in our government by the so-called left. Whatever claims I have seen are similar to your “Uranium One Scandal,” simply untrue propaganda designed to gaslight Americans.

    I applaud you for declaring “Trump is not a firefighter” and would further applaud you if you declared “Trump is not a competent leader.”

  63. Robert McTaggart 2019-04-20 13:09

    The Trump Administration is considering what essentially would be a quota on foreign uranium. The goal at the moment is for American reactors to use about 25% of its uranium from domestic sources.

    Currently that number is around 7%.

    Uranium is classified as a critical element like the rare earths are, and in fact just about all of our rare earths are coming from foreign producers.

    Essentially there will be a fight between utilities who enjoy lower uranium costs and the uranium producers who suffer from lower prices. We do have other uranium resources that do not require additional mining, but it would require recycling/reprocessing.

  64. John Dale 2019-04-20 14:09

    Isn’t James Conca basically a Forbes blogger?

    “Those U.S. facilities obtained by Russia produced almost nothing for years before this sale..” — Doesn’t this neglect the capacity of these sites to produce ore, despite their past levels of production? Were these sites more accessible to more modern techniques?

    If Russia were given a foothold here, who is to say they wouldn’t repeat the model to move into other areas of extraction near Edgemont and Pine Ridge?

    [Uranium One has been buying up mines and companies as fast as they can, especially outside the U.S., and their U.S. production has increased to about 5% of our total] — Nothing in this article suggests that what Clinton and her foundation was legal, efficacious, or ethical.

    [Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State at the time, Bill Clinton got a substantial speaking fee in Russia that year, and Russian money may have found its way to the Clinton Foundation] — from the article you cite. “[But it was only a small amount of money that we found]”. Again, an admission that there was something highly inappropriate going on.

    [There was no wrongdoing on the part of the clintons] — this assertion cites Wapo, a member of the same echo chamber and a publication that was clearly anti-trump .. sociopathically so (Trump Derangement Syndrome is real).

    [some still want to make it another Bengazhi] — anyone wishing to build credibility for the Clinton Body Count machine should never mention the “B” word. “What difference does it make now anyway” is an admission of guilt, malfeasance, or incompetence. “[Sorry (Canadian sorry])” — Clinton

    James waves his hands, “[this Russian deal just wasn’t that important and had no national security ramifications]” — Was this demonstrated somewhere in the article? If it was, I couldn’t find it. All I found were several admissions that uranium rights changed hands but that “[it’s okay because it was only a little bit of uranium]”.

    “This is an action request for Embassy Moscow regarding the delivery by FBI Director Mueller of a requested sample of seized highly-enriched uranium” — just because it was only a sample, doesn’t mean Russia was not trying to establish a uranium extraction beachhead legally and physically on US soil, and that FBI director Mueller wasn’t a dirty cop who covered up 9/11 (see Bill Cooper’s book titled Behold a Pale Horse, a fantastic read).


    [Everywhere you look Republicans are capitalizing on newsworthy events] — what point are you trying to make here? That conservatism is the new counter culture, that the extreme left can’t meme, and that Conservatives should not have access to the public artistic sphere like blacks and water fountains circa 1949?

    What’s next? That the Democrat party didn’t found the KKK?

  65. mike from iowa 2019-04-20 14:36

    Maybe Obama did not do enough, but it is unlikely he encouraged Putin like Drumpf did. Remember McCTurtle threatened to scream partisanship if Obama told the nation about meddling before the election.

    Drumpf is still rolling back sanctions against upper level Russkie korporations who probably have video evidence of the mangled apricot in flagrante delicto.

  66. mike from iowa 2019-04-20 14:46

    Russia did not bid for American Uranium, it was part of a deal for the vast uranium in Kazakhstan, next to Russia. Russia didn’t get 20% of our uranium, from Snopes- Hillary Clinton played a part in the transaction insofar as it involved the transfer of ownership of a material deemed important to national security — uranium, amounting to one-fifth of U.S. reserves (a fraction re-estimated by the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) at closer to one-tenth of the United States’ uranium production capacity in 2017) — thus requiring the approval of the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS), on which the U.S. Secretary of State sits.

    U.S. uranium mines produced 1.2 million pounds of triuranium octoxide (U3O8), or uranium concentrate[1] , in 2017, 55% less than in 2016.May 22, 2018

  67. John Dale 2019-04-20 15:00

    [Russia didn’t get 20% of our uranium] — on one side, we have uranium speculators’ estimates prior to removing legal obstacles. We have little knowledge of their post rights acquisition strategy, but do you trust them?

    On the other hand, we have the oil and gas industry, who hates EV and Nuclear (nookular), and would lobby to outlaw nuclear (I’m think I’m with them after Fukashima), using “big guvmunt” to garner competitive advantage (right out of Porter’s five forces).

    In the middle, The American people who are being gaslit regarding the importance of online privacy, food supply chain security, and wireless.

    What a mess, eh?

    I’m not on any party’s side. I want the truth, and to participate in humanity’s planning.

    I’m inclined NOT to take the whole lot of them at their words, but for conservatives, Trump is the monster they know, and he likes girls so he has that going for him which is nice.

    Lastly, is Michael Obama really packing sausage? Somebody should go in and mine for some evidence of that.

    da da, CHING!

  68. bearcreekbat 2019-04-20 15:58

    John Dale, from my perspective your comments have devolved into meaningless rants absent either substance or intelligent thought. As such they preclude any meaningful discussion about your conspiracy theories and evidence a shallow attempt to refocus readers on anything but Trump’s incompetence. I am not willing to follow you down your numerous rabbit holes.

  69. jerry 2019-04-20 16:09

    “The simple takeaway from the Mueller Report is the President betrayed his country and spent two years lying and breaking the law to try to hide that fact. He should resign and be tried for his crimes.” Josh Marshall 04/20/2019 I could not have said it better.

  70. mike from iowa 2019-04-20 16:35

    On a brighter, way off topic note, I discovered a CSNY video with David Crosby playing blues guitar and singing the blues- called “Almost cut my hair”. Didn’t know they could do the blues. A pleasant surprise in light of the cluster going on around Drumpf’s reign of ugliness.

  71. Robert McTaggart 2019-04-20 16:43

    It breaks the parliamentary Queensberry Rules to go off-topic.

    Now, back to our discussion about hemp…

  72. John Dale 2019-04-20 17:00

    Robert McTaggart – BRAVO.

    [The simple takeaway from the Mueller Report] — there are a few takeaways. Peter Strzok, Andrew McCabe, Carter Page, Christopher Steele, James Comey will probably all eventually get taken away to prison.

    Da da CHING! Hey .. is this thing on?

    [devolved into meaningless…] bearcreekbat, this entire thread started as an essentially meaningless comparison of Trump to a real firefighter. The proprietor of this site makes no apologies for being a relentless and biased Democrat pundit. I’m okay with that, and I appreciate him allowing the sh%t show to unfold for those of us who have fun running with it. For what it’s worth, I found some of your contributions to be beautifully nonsensical. Plus, all the traffic to the site is *cough* appreciated. Has this thread set a record, yet? Wouldn’t be the first time ..

  73. John Dale 2019-04-20 17:05

    bearcreekbat – I’m a mine fighter from the way back. I have some deep knowledge and underground literature that has convinced me of the need to be environmentally conscious, which means I can’t be a republican. I a pro-life, which means I can’t be a Democrat. Rest assured, I receive a lot of equal opportunity hate, motivation to discover that both parties are full of horse manure. Overall, though, I’m conservative with a prominent libertarian streak.

    I guess the point of my last 2-3 posts is that we can be friends even if we disagree.

    Have a super day.

  74. Donald Pay 2019-04-20 17:19

    The Trump Administration could shut down Uranium One’s operations. They haven’t. They won’t. That’s how seriously they take the righty nonsense on that issue.

    The problem is that most of mining in the US is run by foreign companies for a reason. They can mine, make the money, drain the money, fail to clean up and reclaim, stick the US with all the problems and costs. If its on public land they don’t pay royalties to the US. It’s all free to them.

  75. John Dale 2019-04-20 17:28

    Donald Pay – +1, on the nose. Wharf is a Superfund site under construction. Yet another “gift” from Canada, whose stock markets facade American investors who don’t want to be accountable. The problem for President Trump or any other president is that the contracts have been signed .. it’s already been sold-out, so we have to roll it back meticulously and relentlessly without giving up any ground. Need to re-weaponize legalities, but first, American students must take precedence in our universities, where this whole International mining mess launched from.

  76. Robert McTaggart 2019-04-20 17:36

    If it is worth doing, then it is worth paying for. That includes having processes and monies in place for clean-up and instituting best practices (including safety where anybody can shut down operations if they see something). This not only impacts uranium, it also impacts all uses of natural resources.

    It may be that some costs need assistance up-front, which is OK as long as those are recovered over time. Would it be worth it for the government to put those sufficient processes in place first, and then collect a fee over a longer period of time? I am not entirely sure at the moment.

    I also note that we receive a benefit by extracting minerals from elsewhere! The environmental degradation occurs somewhere else, and we enjoy the end-product (rare earths, lithium, cobalt, etc.). If we had to mine more of those items domestically, those impacts would be more apparent.

    However, don’t be surprised if the costs of what you are most interested in happen to go up when those additional measures are taken.

  77. bearcreekbat 2019-04-20 17:55

    John Dale, I agree with your statement “we can be friends even if we disagree.” And I enjoy exploring areas of disagreement on DFP.

    Out of due respect for Cory, I try to reign in my discussions so they remain at least marginally relevant to his posted topics. The topic in this thread seemed related to Trump’s competency and propensity to make bad decisions and give bad advice. I consider other topics to be “rabbit holes” that are designed to distract and misdirect rather than address uncomfortable topic facts.

    Hence, Hillary or Obama or Democrat attacks are beyond the scope of what I believe I should discuss here. My response to your Uranium One Scandal comment probably went too far, yet I felt that you were stating incorrect information that needed correction for readers so I linked the Forbes article and quoted what appeared to me to be undisputed factual information, rather than opinion or speculation. Since your response did not identify evidence to challenge the accuracy of the factual statements I quoted, and since your response did not tie your speculations into Trump’s competency, I decided to step away.

    I do hope to engage in future discussions with you, especially regarding some of the implications from the foundations of conservative and libertarian philosophies. And I certainly welcome your blogging friendship!

  78. mike from iowa 2019-04-20 18:50

    Victoria Nourse, law professor, Georgetown University
    “Putin has won.” Election Day 2016, an intercepted message to Kirill Dmitriev, a Russian national “closely connected to Putin.” (On page 149 of the Mueller report.) This line says everything that the American public should remember about the Mueller investigation. Russian interference in the election has been established beyond doubt. Worse, Mueller found that the Trump campaign “expected to benefit” from criminal actions by Russians who successfully targeted the American election. It is not a crime for any citizen to associate with criminals and spies, nor to enjoy their favors, but that is surely too low a standard for a president of the United States.

    Viewing this case through the lens of criminal law is a mistake. The president takes an oath “to take care that the laws be faithfully executed.” Few constitutionalists believe that the special counsel would indict a sitting president for an ordinary crime. The constitutional power to judge a president is left to Congress. Congress must determine whether there has been a constitutional offense.

    We now know that, contrary to his oath to “take care” that the laws be faithfully executed, the president tried to fire the special counsel, and he fired the head of the FBI, among other acts to thwart the investigation of criminal election interference by our enemies. These are not the acts of one faithful to the law. They are acts of one who would put his own election above the integrity of America’s democracy.

    Wasn’t someone wondering why Drumpf is not legally elected?

  79. Roger Cornelius 2019-04-20 18:59

    Thanks bcb, early on when this thread went astray I immediately backed off knowing that what I offered would be meaningless.
    In reference to the Notre Dame Cathedral fire much of Paris was burning again today in protest. The French have grown very discontent with the amount of money raised for rebuilding the cathedral and how quickly it was raised.
    It is somewhat obscene when a billion dollars can be raised in 48 hours to rebuild a structure when France like other countries suffer poverty and income equality.`

  80. John Dale 2019-04-20 19:04

    [Russian national “closely connected to Putin.” ] – so, here’s my 4 beer take. Why are we trusting some Dickhead from Russia? Why not trust the 60,000,000 patriots that said enough of the UN is ENOUGH?

    [early on when this thread went astray] — But information and it’s relationships give context, semantics, and meaning. See “object orientation”.


  81. mike from iowa 2019-04-20 19:15

    I love it when wingnuts ignore reality and settle for alternative facts.

    Some white guy was caught in a New York cathedral shortly after Notre Dame fire with four gallons of gas, 2 cans of lighter fluid for charcoal and a lighter. Probably another of those good guys on the other side.

  82. Roger Cornelius 2019-04-20 19:16

    “But information and it’s (sp?) relationships give context, semantics, and meaning. See object orientation”.

  83. Robert McTaggart 2019-04-20 19:22

    Complaining about grammar is technically off topic….

  84. Roger Cornelius 2019-04-20 19:29

    Complaining about complaining is off topic.

  85. Robert McTaggart 2019-04-20 19:38

    I’m not complaining about being off topic :^).

  86. mike from iowa 2019-04-20 19:40

    Why not trust the 60,000,000 patriots that said enough of the UN is ENOUGH?

    My best guess is Russia did not help the UN get elected potus of the US.

    And since your reading comprehension hit an all time right wing low, that Russia you mischaracterized received confirmation that Putin’s efforts to elect Drumpf was successful.

    On that note, I am out of here.

  87. jerry 2019-04-21 03:22

    Mother Jones says “Among the Fox News set, you’d think the Mueller report was a canonization recommendation from the Congregation for the Causes of Saints—and the only reason it was so long was because Trump had performed so many miracles.

    They just don’t care. As long as he keeps sending conservative judges to the Senate, Trump can do anything he wants.”

    So there you have it, theocracy is the goal. To shackle us all and take us back to 1219, the glory years, back when we looked at the earth and saw it flat.

  88. jerry 2019-04-21 03:38

    The English New Guardian, continues to show American journalists how to report the actual American news. Who said this?

    “Our declaration of independence says it best. ‘We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.’ In America there is no emperor, and there is no Praetorian guard. There is one standard of justice that applies equally to all, and to say or do otherwise will undermine the most sacred of all American ideals.

    President Clinton has committed federal crimes, and there must be a reckoning, or no American shall ever again be prosecuted for those same crimes.” John Thune House Floor December 18, 1998

    The article goes on to quote the current senators. Clearly they believed that a consenting sexual encounter was Constitutionally dangerous to the country. Let’s see if these same senators will be able to recognize the rape and attempted murder of the entire country as being an impeachable offence. trump and his gang are burning down democracy, Joe Lowe knows firefighting. We need more Joe Lowe’s.

  89. Cory Allen Heidelberger Post author | 2019-04-21 17:25

    No. “Alt-” is just a way to create a false equivalency, paint centrist, moderate Democrats as something they aren’t, and water down the malevolence of the white supremacists identified as the “alt-right,” the violent and vile alternative to the mainstream Chamber-of-Commerce conservatives who used to dominate the GOP. “Alt-right” is a meaningful distinction. “Alt-left” is a deceitful fiction.

    Joe Lowe is still right, Donald Trump is still selfish and incompetent, and people defending Trump’s incompetence and unpleasantness over Joe Lowe’s sensible critique should be ashamed of themselves.

  90. leslie 2019-04-21 18:34

    I think either ATA or Dale do not know Joe ran for governor.

Comments are closed.