Ah, so this is why Donald Trump calls the caravan of migrants asking America for help a bunch of criminals: they’re actually practicing democracy better than Donald Trump and his party do:
When the migrants needed to make public announcements, debate the best routes and vote on different plans, they established a nightly general assembly as a forum open to all, Athens-style. Their legislative floor was an abandoned truck parking lot or an unused sports stadium….
When a few of the men started drinking in the evenings to distract themselves, and mothers worried the noise was keeping their children awake, the general assembly set up a kind of internal police force made up of about 100 unarmed volunteers with megaphones to reprimand the men and keep them out of the migrants’ makeshift camps after the 7 p.m. curfew.
And when they needed to lobby higher-level entities, such as immigration advocacy groups, human rights watchdogs and local governments, the migrants elected a nine-person Governance and Dialogue Council to press for their most basic needs: food, shelter and safety [Jesus Rodriguez, “How the Migrant Caravan Built Its Own Democracy,” Politico, 2018.12.12].
Practicing democracy in enormously difficult circumstances—those immigrants sound like my kind of people! Let’s make American greater and let them in!
Kind of snarky, but way to real.
“COOKEVILLE, TN—Saying he has been unable to readjust to civilian life since returning home from his deployment to the border with Mexico, U.S. soldier Matthew Coltrane told reporters Tuesday he continues to have nightmares in which he is being used as a mere political prop. “In the middle of the night, I’ll wake up in a cold sweat, having dreamed I was back there in Arizona, serving as a pawn in a game to rally the president’s voter base,” said the 22-year-old private first class, adding that he can see clearly the chilling images of young soldiers caught in the middle of the White House’s midterm election strategy every time he closes his eyes. “It can happen anytime. I’ll be sitting with my family watching TV, and suddenly I’m plunged back into this horror show of ostensibly defending America’s borders from a bunch of unarmed migrants who are still thousands of miles away. I can even hear the bored sighs from my brothers-in-arms, brave men who lost weeks of their lives to this naked attempt to scare Americans into voting Republican by depicting refugees as an invading enemy force. It is a trauma that will stay with me for the rest of my life.” At press time, Coltrane was reportedly on the verge of a panic attack after receiving orders to redeploy to the border in advance of the 2020 elections.” The Onion
THEY ARE NOT US CITIZENS……..plus by International Law they must request asylum from the first new country they enter….also NOT America.
Does no one care that in our past we always looked to make sure an immigrant coming here had “value” they brought to the US? Is that crazy?
Say all you want, cry “unfair” all you want. But make not mistake, THIS IS THE NEW DNC PLAYBOOK PLAN TO GET NEW VOTERS. BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.
Steve Pearson said: “by International Law they must request asylum from the first new country they enter….also NOT America.”
This is patently false. The international law you are referring to is the 1951 Refugee Convention, which America has signed and is bound to. There is NOTHING in international law that forces refugees to request asylum in the first new country they enter. European Countries do have an internal law that allows some countries to return adult asylum seekers to the first Convention-signing European country they entered. That European law is creating a lot of animosity between member-states in Europe, and probably needs to change.
International law DOES establish that:
1. Anyone has the right to apply for asylum in any country that has signed the 1951 Convention and to remain there until the authorities have assessed their claim.
2. There is no “legal” way to travel to a Convention-signing country for the specific purpose of seeking asylum. People fleeing persecution may have to use irregular means in order to escape.
Care to provide evidence for your fake-news statements?
Steve Pearson said: “… in our past we always looked to make sure an immigrant coming here had “value” they brought to the US…”
Also false. For the first 100 years of our country’s history, they had zero admission standards and no regulation of immigration.
The Supreme Court ruled in 1875 that regulation of immigration was a federal responsibility. A large percentage of my ancestors arrived in this country prior to 1875. How about yours?
The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 was about race, not value. I hope you are not advocating a return to that horrible racist policy.
The numerical restriction of immigrants started in 1921 as a reaction to the Post-WWI refugee flood. Prior to this, there were no quotas at all.
Again, where is the evidence to support your statements? Tweets, memes, cherry-picked opinion pieces and Fox News doesn’t count. I mean, I’m no expert on any of this, but a simple directed internet search can be very informative, if you skip sh!!!!y propaganda sites.
Read and learn, Pearson- For generations, the United States has opened its doors to individuals from around the world seeking safety and protection. The process of seeking asylum in the United States is rigorous and well-established under U.S. law. But in a cynical attempt to reject asylum seekers who present themselves at ports of entry along the U.S. southern border, the Trump administration is working towards a system that forces them to seek asylum in Mexico instead.
Individuals generally must make their claim for asylum in the first country they enter after fleeing persecution if that country is considered a “safe third country.” If a country has not been designated a safe third country, an asylum seeker may pass through it and apply for asylum in the next country.
In May 2018, representatives of the U.S. and Mexican governments began discussions about whether to recognize each other as safe third countries. If this were to happen, the two countries would enter into a legal arrangement known as a “Safe Third Country Agreement,” or STCA. Under such an agreement, each country would designate the other as a safe third country for asylum seekers.
Not just any country can be designated as a safe third country, however. To be designated, a country must be able to meet the protection needs of asylum seekers. Specifically, a country will be designated as a safe third country only when it is clear that asylum seekers will not be returned to the country where they fear persecution or torture; the well-established international legal principle of non-refoulement.
Various non-governmental organizations are concerned that Mexico cannot fulfill the role of a safe third country and should not be designated as such. They fear that asylum seekers are not safe there.
According to law, the US isn’t a safe third country because Drumpf wants to send people back w/o hearings. Mexico is worse.The US was alright until shotstorm Drumpf hit.
I think Steve is referring to the UNHCR The Refugee Convention, 1951, Article 26 (b) APD. He is right so long as the first country can offer “sufficient protection”. Mexico is questionable as over 25,000 people were murdered there last year. Used to be one of my favorite vacation places.
We should be expecting almost all of Central America to head this way after what Venezuela and China did. At Venezuela’s prompting Honduras, Ecuador, El Salvador and Nicaragua all borrowed extreme amounts of money from China at exorbitant rates and those debts are coming due. The social support organizations such as social security, medical care, city and community governments are going broke and will not operate for much longer. As the civilizations crumble the people will flee and where else can they go before the socialist in this country destroy our home? A lot of lessons to learn in Central America. I have heard the Brazilian military may be shooting refugees in the jungles.
mike, I normally make it a point to not acknowledge you but I was wondering, have you ever written a word or thought of your own?
Democracy in action here, Cohen is on his way to the hoosegow for 3 years and David Pecker (no jokes please, this is a family site) sings like a bird to indict trump for conspiracy charges. Mueller ain’t even broke a sweat yet with the most corrupted white house history has ever seen. From the United States Attorney’s Office, Southern District of New York.
“The Office also announced today that it has previously reached a non-prosecution agreement with AMI, in connection with AMI’s role in making the above-described $150,000 payment before the 2016 presidential election. As a part of the agreement, AMI admitted that it made the $150,000 payment in concert with a candidate’s presidential campaign, and in order to ensure that the woman did not publicize damaging allegations about the candidate before the 2016 presidential election. AMI further admitted that its principal purpose in making the payment was to suppress the woman’s story so as to prevent it from influencing the election.
Assuming AMI’s continued compliance with the agreement, the Office has agreed not to prosecute AMI for its role in that payment. The agreement also acknowledges, among other things, AMI’s acceptance of responsibility, its substantial and important assistance in this investigation, and its agreement to provide cooperation in the future and implement specific improvements to its internal compliance to prevent future violations of the federal campaign finance laws. These improvements include distributing written standards regarding federal election laws to its employees and conducting annual training concerning these standards.”https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/michael-cohen-sentenced-3-years-prison
This is no longer a smoking gun, this is the real deal. trump is guilty!
OldSlackjaw, I normally make it a point to nail yer lying bhide to a cross and I will continue to do so. Where is the Ellison rape tape, liar?
Steve: “Does no one care that in our past we always looked to make sure an immigrant coming here had “value” they brought to the US? Is that crazy?”
For example, one could claim to be “as a model of extraordinary ability”?
OldSarg, since you consider abortion to be murder, you should be very concerned living in the united states. Compared to mexico, we have hundreds of thousands more murders each year than they do. Maybe you should move south where it’s safer.
Ryan, when did I use the word “murder” and maybe you should use the google machine before saying something as stupid as “we have hundreds of thousands more murders each year than they do”. . . Also stay out of mike’s meds ok. . .
Mexico = 29,168 murders in 2017 Population = 129,000,000
United States = 17,508 in 2017 Population = 325,700,000
How often do you just spout worthless crap out like that?
US policies (Operation Condor, Dirty Wars, Coups, School of the Americas) created unlivable conditions in Central America. Now people have to leave their homes in order to live on this planet. In the short term we need to offer these refugees asylum. In the long term we need to change our policies so this does not happen in the future.
I’d be interested to know how you determine the “value” of someone Steve and OS? OS, you did use the word murder. It’s also interesting to me how you manipulate what should be basic humanity as well as legal precedent to fit your own ignorant views.
Us polices did not create unlivable conditions in Central America.
https://www.google.com/search?q=+did+US+policies+create+unlivable+conditions+in+central+america&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-ab
Yes they did, Troll. Bigly. Read ’em and weep.
United States of Amnesia
Now OldSarg wants to deny his comments regarding abortion:
How soon we forget, OldSarg. RJ is correct. Here is a comment you just two days ago:
https://dakotafreepress.com/2018/12/09/nelson-drafts-bill-to-force-docs-to-provide-medically-unnecessary-fetal-images-and-audio/#comment-122421
And don’t forget, I provided you with a list of 26 countries that outlaw all abortions, including those needed to save the life of the pregnant woman. You have a ton of options if you want to live in a communtity that likely shares your values that our American women are murderers.
OS, did you forget your sweet nice guy persona? Why, you’re being downright rude. I thought you had Jesus in your heart and never a mean thought in your body. Now here you are, lying as fast as you can type. Nasty, nasty. I don’t know how you can sleep at night. 🙄😏
The refugees in the caravan are my kind of people. They know how to practice democracy and care for each other. Let’s ship Ole Baldy down there to live with them for awhile. He might learn a thing or two.
1) We are not a democracy. Democracy is never mentioned in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution. We are a REPUBLIC.
“2) The refugees in the caravan are my kind of people.” Then move. Oh, I also have a full head of hair. No baldness at all.
3) “I thought you had Jesus in your heart ” I do and I have a big part of my heart set aside for those that kill the weakest among us. Even Jesus defended children. What type of gross person would not?
Debbo, when you make the decision to be a child of Christ instead of a support of killing we could even be friends.
OldMan … How ’bout it? If a fetus is already a child, is a pregnant woman already a mother? Hmmmm?
https://northernbeacon.blogspot.com/2018/12/one-democracy-dead-49-more-to-go-as-gop.html
When one notes that democracy is under threat in America, there are those who will proclaim that the United States was never a democracy, but a republic. Most students of the United States point out that a republic is a method of administering a democracy through electing representatives to make and debate the legislation that runs the democracy. Those who deny that America is a democracy are playing on the distinction between a direct democracy, through which the people are given a voice and a vote on every decision, and a republic in which the voters authorize someone to represent them in making the governmental decisions. The idea in the republican form of democracy is that the voters hold their representatives accountable to them and in check through their votes. But those who insist that America is a republic, not a democracy, are speaking in defense of elected representatives who act as despots, not as participants in a democracy.
OS, Ole Baldy is the lunatic in the WH, not your latest role. 😄😄😄
“What kind of gross person doesn’t defend kids?” — Oh I don’t know, maybe the gross people that want to send Honduran kids back to the hellscape they are desperately trying to escape from, for example. Gross people that think a Honduran mother that has survived torture, abuse and rape just doesn’t provide adequate “value” to merit asylum.
I don’t think I want to be friends with those people either.
Let’s put American citizens first.
Mellissa A from twitter wrote: “Racist” Trump just signed an executive order for urban revitalization to help lift blacks out of poverty. This order will incentivize companies to invest in black neighborhoods bringing jobs & opportunity. It also gives business loans to help start ups. Zero Media attention.
https://thehill.com/policy/finance/420968-trump-to-sign-executive-order-aimed-at-revitalizing-distressed-communities
The term American citizens include Central, South as well as North Americans. Yes, let’s put Americans citizens first, all Americans citizens.
OldShutmymouthforlying deserves the bottomless Pinocchio Award for biggest liar since Drumpf.
Jason, that got media attention. The first daughter and her husband will use this new policy profit from their investments yugely. The Trumps are always sure to let us know when they profit from their government positions.
Troll- Kushners will profit from Drumpf’s pretense of helping poor blacks.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenrosenthal/2018/08/20/opportunity-zones-may-help-investors-and-syndicators-more-than-distressed-communities/
And here is an article from your favorite outfit- https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/ap-investigation-finds-ivanka-trump-jared-kushner-could-profit-from-opportunity-zone-developer-tax-break-they-pushed
Kushner’s already own millions of assets in these ‘opportunity’ zones.
Jason – poverty framed as entirely or exclusively a matter of race – not a matter of social or tax policy – is an example of systemic what? – Your answer please.
OldSarg, i was referring to the hundreds of thousands of abortions you consider to be the killing of defenseless human life in comparison to the much lower numbers in mexico. Try to keep up with your own fear-mongering non-facts, bud.
My apologies, O. Your comment wasn’t visible when I posted about the Kushners.
Kushners already have profited from properties that were already being rehabilitated and were not officially opportunity zones. At least, opportunity zones aren’t HRC’s emails. So there is that.
Your kind of people demand $50,000 apiece to go back home:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/dec/12/migrant-caravan-members-demand-50000-apiece-go-bac/
HC … What do you know about the credibility and bias of the Washington Times? Don’t be confused with The New York Times or The Washington Post.
Porter, according to PolitiFact, happy’s story has some truth. Apparently a group of approximately 100 migrants, out of an estimated 6,000 to 8,000, offered to return to Honduras in exchange for the payment.
https://www.politifact.com/facebook-fact-checks/statements/2018/dec/13/blog-posting/did-migrant-caravan-demand-united-states-50000-eac/
The idea that they are “your kind of people” or representative of migrants as a whole, however, seems a designed fantasy intended to evoke some hostile emotional response to helping refugees and migrants. It is noteworthy that one of the groups pushing the story is the “Thefederalistpapers.org,” who quoted Fox news. When asked by PolitiFact about the story,
It is disappointing that happy would use the story to implicitly denigrate desperate people needing our help who made no such demand.
I also note the the so called “Washington Times story has the same implication that happy used, by omitting any clarifying information, such as the number of migrants involved.
One hundred of your kind of people want $50,000. The point remains there are a large number of uninvited people, whom we know little, and to make a blanket statement “Let’s make American (sic) greater and let them in!” is reckless and unfair. BCB embraces a standard for Cory he disallows in others.
Thanks, BCB. I’m aware of the story. I just can’t stomach HC using invalid sources to make a valid argument. He can learn like we all did.
As far as the $50,000 goes, the migrants have a case. Trump is illegally slowing down the asylum process and the damaged parties are due compensation. USA would save money by paying them now instead of after a court determines they’re due much more than $50,000 each.
Happy- why are these asylum seekers not allowed into America?
happy, what standard do you assert I embrace for Cory but have disallowed for others?
happy camper – who “invited” your ancestors to NA?
“Trump is illegally slowing down the asylum process and the damaged parties are due compensation” How silly.
If someone comes to your door to sell you a brush and you don’t answer do you owe them “due compensation”?
mike~ “why are these asylum seekers not allowed into America?” they are not escaping a condition that was any more dangerous then the conditions they wish to enter now. If the conditions were more dangerous I think we should accept the women and children but the men need to return to fight for the country they wish to live in not run away like cowards. This is one of the reasons men in the US still register for the draft.
OS says, “the men need to return to fight for the country they wish to live in not run away like cowards. . .” A noble idea from someone who deemed Jamal Khashoggi a traitor who should have been summarily murdered because he criticized objectionable practices by his government.
Whatever. Khashoggi was a spy for Saudi and Saudi killed him when he became a traitor. It’s the risk Khashoggi assumed. If the men return to their home countries to fight for what they believe they also run the same risk. Nobody said fighting for one’s beliefs was a game and not everyone has the fortitude to even fight for what they believe but to run from trouble only invites more trouble. Khashoggi was a traitor and the men who are running from their home countries are cowards if it is really fear they are running from. It’s the definition of coward. Let the women and children come here and stay.
@OldMan … Silly? Well thought out, response. We’re surely all happy that you’re not at a job level with any meaningful decisions to make. As I once said to Pat Powers and it pertains to your government job, also, “What did your dad do wrong in the FBI to get stationed in South Dakota?”
“We’re surely all happy that you’re not at a job level with any meaningful decisions to make” Ha! I agree!!!
As far as how I ended up here, my dad was stationed here and I went to Douglas for just my senior year then I partied for a semester in Thomas Hall at BHSC. Joined the service and years later I joined the B-1 test program because I knew it would be assigned here. I tell people it’s like an oasis in the middle of a grass sea. Most military folks love it here. There are a lot worse places. A lot worse.
OS takks about cowards while being afraid to reveal his true identity. Now there’s a coward!
“talks”, sorry.
7 year old Guatemalan girl dies from dehydration while in American custody. My kind of people, yearning for freedom and safety like my ancestors did.
Reads like camper will get a paytroll check today with the rest of trolls. Putin will get carpal tunnel from signing the checks for this bunch.
Murdered Journalist was an American with American children.
Howz this for a kick in OldScuttlebutt’s grill- https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/study-refugees-brought-in-revenues/
Refugees bring in much more revenue than they cost. Drumpf Administration found out and then cut that out of their report. O leaked copy showed what was favorble info was removed.
I think OldSloppy is confusing vitamins and bombers.
Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Debbo, you can figure out who I am as well as anyone can figure out who you are. As far as calling folks a coward I think any preacher that justifies the killing of an unborn child will burn hotter than the rest of us. . . I don’t think there is a more cowardly act. Just my opinion as I’m not an expert on religion or anything. . .
We know who you are , liar.
We know what you are, liar.
mike, go eat something. You mind has run out of food.
OldSarg, I commend and appreciate your recent epiphany to “Let the women and children come here and stay.” That is a wise and compassionate stance deserving of kudos.
Perhaps as you discover more factual information about many, if not most, of the men who seek to migrant to the U.S., especially those that want nothing more than to support and care for the women and children in their lives, you will experience a similar epiphany.
I have trouble believing that you are good with any government killing (without formal charges, trials or convictions) people who criticize that government. And, absent an actual violent revolution, I doubt you would support any government summarily murdering the people you call cowards if they return and challenge government repression of their people.
Incidentally, you now labeled Khashoggi a “spy.” That seems to be a new charge. What is your basis for calling him a “spy?” Perhaps you are confusing Khashoggi with one of the Saudi men, Maher Abdulaziz Mutreb, who murdered Khasshoggi?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-45918610
Let’s have your name OS, if you’re so brave. Say it here. My last name has been given here many times, plus my work. C’mon, use your real name with your posts. Whataboutism is just a weak attempt to hide.
There were other sources Porter but interestingly none from “liberal media” like NY Times or CNN granted they are a splinter group but still part of the story. My great, great grandfather struck a military officer over a woman of disrepute, falsified papers and entered this country under an alias to avoid imprisonment there you have it low moral character fast forward we must have a responsible immigration policy.
So happy asserts: “BCB embraces a standard for Cory he disallows in others.” I don’t recall embracing any such standard, so I asked “happy, what standard do you assert I embrace for Cory but have disallowed for others?”
Happy has not responded, despite being active on DFP threads, including this very thread on which he posted his drive by comment about me. This is frustrating, but does tend to indicate that happy cannot stand behind or defend his critical assertions about me, nor perhaps any other posters.
So to clarify, I embrace the standard that people as a group should not be falsely disparaged based on the conduct of a few, especially not migrants and refugees who have enough mountains to climb without being demeaned by such comments. And if a commenter feels compelled to attack any such group based on the conduct of a few, he should be willing to defend his disparaging comments with actual facts, rather than lies or hyperbole.
I embrace that standard everyone who posts, including Cory, and I have questioned comments by Cory that I preceived were critical of groups of innocent folks based on the bad conduct of a few. See e.g, my comment defending lobbiests after a post that I thought too broad:
https://dakotafreepress.com/2018/11/13/how-many-more-lobbyists-will-kristi-noem-hire-to-run-the-state-for-her/#comment-120093
It is distressing, but telling, that happy would summarily assert otherwise but then refuse to justify that derogatory assertion when asked.
Where you at, OldSoapsudssouffle? Where you at, rascal? Lookee here- https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/truth-steele-dossier-experts-compare-infamous-memo-muellers-findings/
Former federal prosecutor Chuck Rosenberg and Harvard Law student Sarah Grant wrote for Lawfare that many of the findings made public as part of Mueller’s probe confirm “both specifically and thematically” aspects of the dossier.
“The dossier holds up well over time,” the scholars wrote, “and none of it, to our knowledge, has been disproven.”
None of it has been disproven. What a far cry from what you spout without ever backing yer lies up, OS.
One moar thing- wingnuts aren’t against all immigrants. https://thinkprogress.org/bill-backed-by-ryan-would-give-visas-to-irish-workers-while-latino-migrants-languish-at-the-border-e1478ce62605/
This should oughta help- https://www.thedailybeast.com/jakelin-caal-was-held-at-border-patrol-base-previously-cited-for-contaminated-water?ref=home
Her parents claim she was eating and drinking before she was put into US custody.
I can smell a lawsuit coming and I can hear a wingnut coyote kerfluffle howling in outrage over a lawsuit.
Guatemalan boy who died in Border Patrol custody died of the flu. Misdiagnosed as a cold.
According to WSJ, teachers, assistants, janitors and other public workers are quitting their jobs in record numbers looking for better pay.
We may need a flood of competent immigrants to fill the gaps in our our schools and other places.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/teachers-quit-jobs-at-highest-rate-on-record-11545993052