Shannon Marvel follows up on her Sunday story about racist comments caught on video at the April 2–3 AAU youth wrestling tournament in Aberdeen with a report that the two men insulting a six-year-old American Indian wrestler (out of his earshot while the boy wrestled, but audible on the video) are getting two punishments:
- State Amateur Athletic Union chairman Bob Johnson says AAU is banning the two men from future AAU events.
- Northern State University wrestling coach Rocky Burkett says the two men will complete educational programs on cultural awareness facilitated by the NSU Native American Student Association.
So we can conclude that, even though the video has not been made public, the racist comments happened, because AAU and Burkett wouldn’t punish innocent people, right? We can also conclude that the two volunteers were NSU student-athletes, because, even if Burkett won’t say the two are NSU students, how else would an NSU coach be able to impose any sort of punishment on them?
We do not know the two men’s names. Marvel studiously avoids identifying them.
We do not know if these actions put an end to the situation. The family of the subject of the racist comments, Nokosi Ringing Shield, does not sound satisfied:
Nokosi’s father, Justin Ringing Shield, said he and his wife, Nichole, feel Johnson is not taking appropriate responsibility for the incident.
“He basically dropped the ball and gave Rocky the task,” Ringing Shield said of Johnson. “No one has mentioned their names or gave us any info on their punishment. As national chairman (of AAU wrestling), Johnson has done absolutely nothing. He has written a total of eight sentences in the two paragraphs since we first contacted him. The only thing he offered was to buy my wife lunch. That’s it.”
Last week, Nichole Ringing Shield was complimentary of the way Burkett handled the situation, saying he was both receptive to her concerns and apologetic [Shannon Marvel, “Wrestling Tournament Volunteers Banned After Offensive Comments,” Aberdeen American News, 2016.04.11].
Our after-dinner parlor questions this evening:
- Should AAU and/or Northern name the miscreants (misparlants?)?
- Are AAU and NSU dishing out appropriate punishment?
- Should Trackcast (the company that recorded the tournament matches) make the incriminating video public?
- Do AAU and/or NSU bear any further responsibility to the insulted wrestler and his family?
1. Is it legal to do so? Would naming the miscreants subject the NSU college to potential lawsuits that as I taxpayer I would have to pay? Until these questions can be answered by a real lawyer and make promises bad things would not happen to the college then the answer probably has to be “do not name them” but just like the beer spillers at the hockey game the names will eventually get out. Then the vigilantes can commence.
2. What more can they do? If the law allows the NSU to smite the miscreants or give them all Fs or even put them in solitary confinement then they should do so. But what other legal options can the college do to these fellows who were arguably just saying their twisted mind.
3. It’s up to them. They own it. I have movies you might want to see too but I will not show you because I choose not to.
4. I don’t know. They are responsible for the volunteers they use but I expect there will be a giant civil suit about this because it’s all about the money.
4.
Is it more important to punish them or to teach them? I’d go with teach.
Ms. Manke, it would be best to teach them, but I believe some will go with punish and punish hard, and milk them of whatever funds they have.
If these guys have any conscience at all they will make a public apology and also make a personal apology to the family. Barring that their names should be put out there as part of freedom of the press.
1. I’m ambivalent on this one. Not sure naming them accomplishes anything. These kids (assuming they’re college students) were apparently raised with this kind of bigotry so it’s no wonder they picked it up, one hears it so much in SD. That doesn’t make it alright, but it needs to be unlearned. I don’t believe in ruining young people for stupid mistakes of their youth. Better they learn where they’re wrong and stupid.
2. Yes, the punishment seems appropriate, the banning is significant, and the cultural awareness part lends hope that they can learn. Too many athletes (especially at NSU) get by on their athletic skills and don’t learn very much in the process. Sounds like Burkett took it seriously, if not Johnson. But if they’re students, then Burkett is closer to it.
3. Yes, they should, isn’t it possible for the press to get it under FOIA? But that could take months.
4. Yes, we all do, all of us. I want to know that this kind of thinking and bigotry-spewing has been turned around. Native Americans are not welfare savages, and we of Euro-American descent are not the heroes we grew up watching in the movies. No need to rationalize and make excuses for attempted genocide. It’s time to end it. The learning and unlearning starts with us.
What if NSU college attached the videos to these fellows’ transcripts? That might be a good punishment.
In churning my old gourd a bit more, I thought “how can you punish a volunteer more than banishing them?” Then I thought “wait, we should punish the AAUW or NSU who let these volunteers work.” Then I thought “would hurting the AAUW or NSU help or hurt these kind of programs and the general public?”
I am still churning my gourd on that one.
CH,
Could these two “men” be minors? High school wrestlers volunteering at Northern? Just wondering if that is why their names are not being mentioned?
I tried to look this up on the website, but you have to pay $10 to view it.
Accountability is necessary.
Chomsky says:
“slave-owners, like Jefferson, appreciated the moral turpitude on which the economy relied. But he feared the liberation of slaves, who have ‘ten thousand recollections’ of the crimes to which they were subjected….
John Quincy Adams’s reflections on the parallel founding crime over centuries, the fate of “that hapless race of native Americans, which we are exterminating with such merciless and perfidious cruelty…among the heinous sins of this nation, for which I believe God will one day bring [it] to judgment.’
What matters is our judgment, too long and too deeply suppressed, and the just reaction to it that is as yet barely contemplated.”
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/18/noam-chomsky-on-the-roots-of-american-racism/?_r=0
Thanks to social media and the internet there is the name of a Native American child thrown out there for all the world to read about, this story will remain with him in one way or the other for the rest of his life.
Since the child is a minor, is it right that his name be published and not the names of the racist?
For those that want to make this a teaching moment and for it to be balanced, the videos must be published in their entirety, clips will not serve the truth.
About a potential lawsuit, damn straight. As has been said here, in South Dakota it is common to hear these racist comments, maybe it is now time to make people pay cash for their racism. A few more cases like this will go further to educate people than a classroom
To say “the racial comments happened” makes too strong of a reference to some other person’s account that has not been verified. It’s clear something happened but we don’t know what exactly.
Maybe they are employees of the school.
Why doesn’t the family request the tape be reviewed by law enforcement? If they were saying it publicly with intent to harm that’s a crime. If they thought they were saying it privately then maybe it’s protected, unless they would have no reason to think that and that it would lead to a disruption of peace (which it has).
It should be reviewed closely. In today’s world at a place that is being filmed wouldn’t you assume what you say is public?
Why involve law enforcement if no criminal charges are involved or even hinted at?
Grudz, those movies you have, are they silent or talkies?
Make them apologize to the family in person, make them do the Cultural training….if nothing is done, this Racism WILL continue and continue as it has been here in South Dakota. If anything was done like that by a Native….the worse could happen….SEE the difference, HEAR the difference..We all know the difference….
.What would happen if a Native did this and was caught?
This is pretty wild but par for the course around DFP. Your talking about a civil case on behalf of a six year old boy that found out third hand that two people called him names.
His name was released by his relitives, not the AAU. This case will never make it to court.
The Blindman
” What would happen if a Native did this and was caught?”
Geri, it happens all the time. No race has a moral high ground in this issue. Thats why I always say treat everyone exactly the same. No perks for being white, no perks for being indian, no perks for any race sex or religion. Anything less, just encourages more racism.
The Blindman
1. They are adults. They made the choice to make disparaging remarks about *children*. Name them.
2. It does not feel like the punishment is enough.
3. Trackcast should make the video public. (I agree with another commenter – there should be accompanying transcripts.)
4. NSU/AAU owes it to the family to follow up appropriately (see all of the above)…
The youngster did not hear the slurs that were spoken, so that is a good thing. They are punishing the ones who did it with cultural awareness. That is as good of a start that could be expected. Time to move on until the next outrage is captured on video. 10..9..8
Roger,
It appears the grandmother and parents are quite open with regards to his identity. Their openness doesn’t result in a loss of privacy rights of the perpetrators, especially if they are minors. We can’t be selective in whose and what rights we defend. We protect the identity of minor perpetrators for one reason- the hope private sanction will allow them to enter adulthood with a chance.
Don’t get me wrong. I find these statements deplorable on multiple levels. And, if they are adults, I fully support appropriate sanction and consequences.
PS: I think we err too often on the side of trying minors as adults.
I heard comments like this growing up in small town SD. I have also heard racism in MN in regards to the Muslim population. The difference is in MN there are leaders and a governor that will speak out against such racism. There are townhall meetings that Gov Dayton and other political leaders have attended where he spoke out against racist bigoted comments and crime against immigrants. In SD, you hear nothing from its leaders on both sides.
The power that a governor and a US Senator has that could do so much to ease the tension, but yet they choose not to. Sad that’s it’s all about votes. .
Wow!!! Racism is a word that is used for everything now, there is a difference between being racist and being offended. The media loves it and people feed on it. Many times people talk not thinking anything racist but they say stupid things they are immature not racist. Many of you are feeding in to our new world of one-sided stories. I bet these people are sorry and regret what they said but you all want blood. I can guess that everyone has said something in their lives that could be presumed to be racist the only difference is you weren’t recorded and people didn’t blast you to the media. Do not cast stones unless you are the 1% of the population that has never made a mistake or regretted something you said something that wasn’t intended to be hurtful to others. People make mistakes and people say stupid things. Many of you want to ruin the lives of these people and you don’t even know them. Shame on you!!!!
The punishment is too weak. (Federal privacy laws do not allow them to disclose information about student disciplinary action). A Colorado College student was suspended for two years for a less lengthy racist event.
http://gazette.com/student-suspended-from-colorado-college-for-social-media-posts-speaks-out/article/1564644
An adult making crude comments about an innocent child playing a sport is something I’ve never done, Sam.
I can guarantee most parents would be just as upset if this was done towards their child.
As a parent I have made rude comments about children that have bullied my daughter. Who hasn’t, no one like their kid being bullied.
This is different, just meanness directed towards a beautiful Native American boy minding his own business.
They’ve been banned from volunteering, so I believe the punishment is fitting.
Samantha,
Most culprits that get caught saying or doing something wrong or illegal have only one regret and that is being caught.
Also – very much worth noting – TrackCast has since removed three of the six recorded matches that Nokoski participated in. Why? (We can all assume…)
And again, I have to reiterate that I think the names of the ‘men’ involved need to be released. Why in the world should they get to enjoy anonymity? If someone is part of a recorded broadcast, why in the world would they have any expectation of privacy? It wasn’t a ‘hot mic’ situation. They were clearly aware they were being recorded.
oops, apologies for misspelling – Nokosi
LeAnn assumes these guys are teachable. I appreciate optimistic humanism.
Teresa, consider this devil’s advocacy: Suppose someone spray-paints racist graffiti on my front step to offend my American Indian neighbors. Should I leave it up for everyone to see, or should I paint it over once I’ve taken pictures and provided information to the police?
Of course, if I find out who graffiti’d my house, I will make their names public so they can receive feedback from the community about their behavior.
Grudz, I think your taxpayer concern is feigned to provoke us. (Your satire is a different flavor from but the same brand as Kris’s… and generally better written.) It is also unlikely to occur: I suspect that Northern, like other public institutions, requires outside groups renting their facilities to carry their own liability policies to cover any damages that arise during the event. If anyone sues and wins, I’ll bet AAU’s insurer foots the bill.
I can see the sense in Roger’s point, that if the six-year-old victim of the racist language can be published (and Jerry, he may well have heard the comments while watching the video), the names of the racist speakers ought also be published, even if they are also minors.
Troy makes a reasonable distinction: the family of the young wrestler have posted his name and pictures publicly, so they are fair game. (Editorial note: if I find items posted to Facebook as “Public,” I consider the expectation of privacy waived.) The racist speakers and their families, the organization they work for, NSU, etc. have not consented to their identification.
But the question we have to ask is whether those speakers have given up their right to privacy by violatin community standards.
Samantha, we’re not talking about Craig Ferguson calling his producer “Racist!” for censoring his naughty words on his TV show. We’re talking about speech that was blatantly racist. There’s no shame on “casting stones” at racists. Our own errancy in this or other matters does not demand our silence in the face of other bad behavior. By your logic, AAU and NSU should not punish these two men, because AAU and NSU have also done bad things. When people cry, “Don’t judge!” they are advocating moral paralysis and avoiding the issue.
Two comments:
1). There are a lot of pretty bigoted statements that get said on blogs and the only punishment is being banned. Don’t get me wrong, I find these comments extraordinarily deplorable. Just some perspective to contemplate.
2). CH, I really appreciate this quote you said above: “Our own errant in this or other matters doesn’t demand our silence in the face of other bad behavior.” If the converse were true, none of us could speak on anything.
Thanks, Troy. Indeed, we’ve had language at least as bad as the reported AAU volunteer comments on this very blog, and I haven’t even gone as far as to ban those speakers from participating in these conversation. But those speakers own their words, and those words remain on record in this space. Hmmm… if we should name the AAU volunteers, should I release the names of commenters who use pseudonyms and make racist comments?
did the racist commenters have an expectation of privacy volunteering at a public facility, public event, subject to substantial recording. prolly not.
their consent is an afterthought, as is AAU’s , NSU’s and the school board where the slandered student came from. imo
aside-I think grudz is kris
Stu Whitney writes in the Argus Leader about Ralphie May and the Aberdeen incident: http://www.argusleader.com/story/news/columnists/stu-whitney/2016/04/13/ralphie-may-comedian-native-american-bemidji-sioux-falls-stu-whitney-aim/82992838/
caheidelberger I understand your point and as a Hispanic/Native American woman, I do accept that a lot of comments are due to ignorance and stupidity. There is a difference between really racist language and stupidity/ignorance.
For others:
Do you know the exact words that were used or even the comments? You are going off of hearsay and someone that was offended over something you may or may not agree with or agree that its that big of a deal (perception depends on the day and your mood right). Is this how some of you people work guilty until proven innocent or proven stupid. Have you ever identified someone as the kid with the long hair, girl with glasses, the dark one, or the boy with the pony tail ( mind you there blonde haired white kids, black kids, Hispanic kids, Asian kids etc. with ponytails would this be an issue then), or how about the dude with the nose ring, earrings, or tattoos well all of it is offensive. So getting even, destroying these peoples lives over words that again you don’t know exactly what was said or the tone. These people have been embarrassed, are being threatened on this thread and elsewhere, and have been banned from volunteering as well have to deal with how big this got for the rest of their lives. For words and comments you all have not heard or read first hand. Free speech only applies to you all right, well that offends me! So why don’t you all identify yourselves-first and last name place of employment race etc. That is what you are asking right that way you can be harassed and verbally abused too for comments you have said. People could find where you live, vandalize your vehicle, destroy your house, ruin your name forever, stalk your social media, and in the end destroy your life and future. Would your employers approve of this tone on this thread how about your friends or family. Now, what if this is not what you think it is? It may be, but what if its not? Will you apologize for your comments will the media?
wouldn’t it be nice if some vested interest wouldn’t censor the tapes? they know people will speculate over outrageous headlines.
there is NOTHING wrong with thoroughly discussing facts in the news made available. especially as SD is quickly confirming its reputation as just as bad as states in the south. context is important. we are trying to change republican state government and a majority of the state population that seemingly agrees with, or ignores the problem.
happy camper,
It is great that Ralphie May could own up to his mistakes and make moves to correct them. I’m impressed with him. I do wonder if the volunteers at the wrestling event could do the same and learn a valuable lesson
Since they are being provided with political cover, we may never know.
Sitting in an establishment the other afternoon, head down scrutinizing tax forms, I overheard it at work.
at another table of a presumably white “blue-hair” said the following to a grown son, perhaps, and grandchild. Country people by dress.
The ten year old was impressively responsive and conversational to the grandparent’s statements.
Direct quotes were: “a lotta white people @ $15.00 an hour but Mexicans will do it for $7.50 an hour”; (so and so) is in a lotta trouble with the law in (another state)…shootin’ people, robbin’ places”; (foreign names); “Nice to have a female president, it’s time…the internet…but they’ll wait to impeach the bitch…she’ll hire good lawyers, it’ll never happen…this was two full birds (officers) talking”; ” five people living in a 3 bedroom house…better than anything they have there…they have five FAMILIES living in a house each paying $200 a month. a porta potty costs $200 a month…”.
I redirected attention to the printed forms.
“you want this hamburger?…you have room for ice cream?” and they left.
just like any good grand parent, huh?
I took my kids to dinner at a ranch house decades ago for dinner and was shocked at the grand parent’s rank conversation at the table about Indian thieves and beggers from the neighboring rez. never went back. but, it hasn’t changed much out in the country.
To Samantha’s point: People say bad things for a variety reason.
1). Hatred- a dark heart speaking
2). Ignorance- ignoring information which should adjust a prudent persons attitude. Active ignorance is a worse cause than passive ignorance.
3). Negative foundational experience- We understand a woman’s attitude toward men if her most foundational experiences were betrayal and abuse. I can’t remember the name of the Eastwood movie but the point was it took exposure to actual people to overcome a combination of #1& #2.
4). A desire to conform to the particular moment and audience where the need for affirmation supersedes doing/saying the right thing.
I am not condoning any of these explanations but to an outside observer conclusions (and corresponding call for what is just) about “bad speech” can be made which are not fully correct. The remedy/response to #1 should be different for the others. But, I am not sure any of us here can discern what really was the underpinning of these deplorable words.
The problem in today’s world, if you’ve done something really stupid, that’s everybody, if it makes the internet it’s with you for the rest of your life. You might call that accountability, but employers hire screening companies and you could really ruin your future. People tend to believe what they read. Ok, here’s one: My Native friend and I joke about white power, we swing our arm around and yell white power and amuse each other. We understand why it’s funny to us, but we’ve been “caught” doing it in public, once by himself when he went back to Rapid City. Sometimes you joke about things to take away it’s power. See, I was reluctant to even repeat what we do, which I couldn’t do if I was using my real name.
underpinning, schumderpinning. of course happy and troy, but you (perceptive human beings) know when you hear hate.
internet aside, whether its a credit bureau or a bank, financially, you get stuck with other’s non-perceptive assessments of your reputation all day long. suck it up:)
and be careful of what you say in front of, or about those with less education, years, or mentoring. you are a role model whether you want to be or not.
People make bigoted comments about Welfare moms and immigrants ALL the time! I know the Catholics on here don’t like it when I ridicule their church so now you know how Muslims feel.
A person on food stamps will make other people make snide remarks about them.
People need to realize that we’re just not as decent as we like to make ourselves believe.
As a friend of mine says “no good deed goes unpunished”
leslie,
Huh? I never claimed to know when I hear hate in fact I said the opposite. My point is sometimes we don’t know the whole story and rather than making rash judgment on insufficient information or generalizing, maybe we should defer to those who are in a position to get a more complete picture and hope they make the right decision.
Regarding your last paragraph, you raise a good point. Everyone is a role model (good or bad) and constantly observed (whether we know it or not). If we aren’t good role models, we should be asking ourselves why not because if we aren’t good role models we probably aren’t contributing much to society.
No Leslie, it was BCB who said people interpret things very differently. I’ve had some minority friends (gay, black whatever) in which, should we call it black humor, is completely unacceptable (and painful). They can’t joke about anything. Laughter is how we get beyond things without becoming bitter.
People take themselves too dang seriously. Every minute of the day I gotta be a role model? Gimme a break. Have some stinkin fun. You can still be responsible, but you don’t have to be German all the time.
One definition: a form of humor that regards human suffering as absurd rather than pitiable, or that considers human existence as ironic and pointless but somehow comic.
This could be the hardest thing you’ve ever done.
You know, if you hear racist foul talk and you don’t tell the person that you’re offended than it’s just like you said it yourself. This speech is a form of bullying and it must be confronted or the offender believes he’s in line and it’s OK.
I had a friend who stood up to me many years ago and told me something I said was offensive. I was mad but eventually I stopped saying things like that. Now, I’ve told others I was offended by something they said and almost all such hate speech has stopped among my different circles of friends, at least when I’m around. This is particularly hard in SoDak because there are so few people and gossip is such a part of daily life. It’s not a matter of having a stick up your ass, it’s just that bullies need to be stopped.
“It’s not a matter of having a stick up your ass, it’s just that bullies need to be stopped.” That was a rather difficult statement to absorb, but yes, that’s true, though the PC Crowd, the Libbie Preachers, they have to understand it is about context. I can’t think of any context acceptable to denigrate children, but I’ll tell you this, my Native friends have called me many bad names, to our mutual enjoyment. Many things are not literal.
Good post Happy.
The Blindman
Samantha, the statements were reported in quotation marks in Shannon Marvel’s reports. That’s a step above hearsay: that’s a reporter staking her reputation on the faithful reporting of statements made in documentary video evidence.
I don’t see free speech only applies to my people and not yours or the racist AAU volunteers. I am saying (and AAU and NSU are saying) that words have consequences, that one can be punished for using certain words.
Note, Samantha, that I speak here fully identifiably. I have to own every word I say. I face the possibility of backlash every day. Yet I say the things I say, because they are true, and because they are publicly important and useful.
To be absolutely clear, I am not asking that any human be harassed and verbally abused for comments they have said. I do not call for people to vandalize vehicles, destroy houses, ruin names forever, stalk social media, or seek to destroy lives and futures. Illegal, violent responses to speech are unacceptable. Accountability, however, through public awareness and criticism, is acceptable.
“I face the possibility of backlash every day. Yet I say the things I say, because they are true, and because they are publicly important and useful.”
It’s respected that you put your name to it, but it is only your truth. We all have a different reality.
Liberals often presume to know something universal but a free thinker would have to accept that everyone has different ideas.
as to your comments, “Libbie Preachers, they have to understand it is about context”, I don’t follow but offer this:
http://www.britannica.com/topic/black-humor
And, suggesting strongly that the appropriate authority–the kid’s school board, NSU and/or AAU publically and clearly and transparently sanction this violation of community and civility these moron volunteers caused to be recorded, and unless this did not occur as described, it is fairly plainly “the right thing to do” in context. If it somehow becomes a criminal matter, they are obviously accorded a right to defend themselves. Civil matters require due process.
But covering up the 3 videos or destroying them is about par for the course in SD, however.
And further, “Huh? I never claimed to know when I hear hate ” and “No Leslie, it was BCB who said people interpret things very differently” reveals we are talking past each other, without accomplishing anything.
Finally, “Liberals often presume to know something universal but a free thinker would…” blahblahblah. why would that be a truism?
Because Leslie one bias is that people don’t see their own biases. One of your clips was followed by another in which the scientist said you always keep retesting trying to break your own conclusions. I am critical of political correctness because it shuts down free speech. Of course I’m not talking about the right to abuse children, but how liberals control by finger pointing.
Here’s a video with Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher talking about Regressive Leftists and the hypocrisy of not being able to criticize Muslims (I would add other protected classes):
http://conservativepost.com/video-to-hell-with-their-culture-hear-what-richard-dawkins-and-bill-maher-say-about-this-religion/
Recently the guy who coined the term Islamophobia came out to say he’s accepted Muslim immigrants want to have a nation within a nation. Sometimes PC stuff is just wrong.
http://www.newsweek.com/muslims-are-creating-nations-within-nations-says-former-head-uk-equalities-446163
Politically correct and political correctness are terms embraced and used by bigots attempting to shield themselves from valid criticism. Correct is correct, no matter what qualifier you put in front of it. AND … the bigots who use PC as a pansy-boy shield are incorrect, without any qualifier necessary.
Political correctness is completely subjective, different for absolutely everybody. When one race or group is allowed by society to use certain words that are off limit to anybody else, that is also wrong.
And Porter has the nerve to talk political correctness? He doesnt remember saying he was going to come down here, piss in my pool, and blacken both of my eyes. What a hypocrite.
The Blindman
That’s what I said, Dithmer. And you stopped your posting about sex and teen aged girls. A worthy threat for a useable conclusion. You said any teen age girl that was a virgin at high school graduation wasn’t normal. And then you named a specific girl who you claimed would not be normal if she didn’t have sex with a boy or girl before graduation. You want to defend that scheiss kopf? That’s perverted in my view and worthy of my threat to make you shut your damn drunken mouth, in public forums. One thing for sure, if it happens you’ll never see it coming.
The terms politically correct and political correctness are used to shield bigots from their mean spirited attacks and are necessary to defend their hate speech that is in fact indefensible.
And Cory sheilds you Porter. He is just as guilty as you are in this. I lost my respect for him the day he let you say those things.
The Blindman
What’s your respect worth? Cory has mine and so does the little girl you offended. Where’s the apology?
Who did I offend?
The Blindman
Dawkins ignites your powder, eh? wonder why?
you say race doesn’t exist. so I googled for 30 seconds and dawkins came up, soundly disproving your claim. you still haven’t responded.
a later, second dawkins cite was a criticism of his process involving the pope. instead u snidely said cory and I use sloppy logic all the time and you whined that I just pull out dawkins ect. to suit my world view. those are the sole dawkins comments I have made on this blog as far as I remember. I haven’t joined the atheist debate (dawkins is a renowned atheist) that occasionally surfaces here.
in many, many ways Dawkins is spot on in his scholarship. He is an evolutionary biologist of the highest standing. He also happens to speak out about religion.
we are talking here about the Harney name change which I support. People, many Indians locally, find the peak name offensive because the General indiscriminately killed 86 people, many women and children, and wounded 150 more and captured and marched 70 or more hundreds of miles around the prairie. Some were used for target practice by troops.
Basil Braveheart is a Korean War Vet, a spiritual leader, an educated man, and took it upon himself to use a state legal process to point out that this history improperly honors a military General for this massacre.
People like Dithmer, and much, much worse (epitomized by ignorant comments captured on AAU tapes now censored), have incorrectly said this is mere political correctness. Harney Peak is a major symbol to the Lakota people’s spiritual and cultural lives and accordingly find the name offensive. That is pretty simple.
In response the legislature has neutered the state name change law. The Governor’s cabinet, likely speaking with his approval, have lined up against the change. The third separate state power, SCOTSOSD, has yet to weigh in.
as always SD has dug in and doubled down on monumental errors. As you are doing. Your and Troy’s apologies for bad behavior undo sound community and civic responsibility.
People like Dithmer, and much, much worse (epitomized by ignorant comments captured on AAU tapes now censored), have incorrectly said this is mere political correctness. Harney Peak is a major symbol to the Lakota people’s spiritual and cultural lives and accordingly find the name offensive. That is pretty simple.
I have never said any of those things in my life Leslie never.
The Blindman
it would be nice if porter could avoid bringing up his dust up with dithmer in every other thread.
Bill D- my reference is to your post on this thread at 10:39, and previous post about 80% on this thread.
PC is an old, tired, distractive debate.
the many reactive vitriolic comments to the SDBGN recommendation to change the name, said this was rewriting history and mere political correctness.
Leslie,
Not that I’m concerned with what would be nice for you but I let the old drunk attack me three times before I “dusted up”. Enough is enough and now he’s backstrokin’ like he’s in Rio for the Summer Games. I’ve not started the conversation since the day he offended teen girls. Somedays he’s drunk and feeling guilty and some days he’s not. Address your wishes to the pervert, not me.
I don’t think the argument that PC is a shield and tool used by bigots is old and tired. I believe your tolerance for the argument is. Tough toenails.
And porter sugested that sex with little girls should be kept in the family.
The Blindman
How ’bout them Saints,huh? Take a deep breath and then try rilly hard to get along-PLEASE!
No backstroking here Porter. You are still a wussy little boy that throw rocks from a distance bot cant seem to follow through on threats, even when the tickete were paid for by me. Hes nothing but a blowhard, big hat no cattle, all blow and no go.
The Blindman
You stopped your reprehensible behavior. That’s what I wanted. That’s what was called for, morally and that’s what happened. Ready with an apology to young girls in general and the specific young lady you insulted? Hmmmm? I thought not, so just zip it and sober up. Last word is yours because Ms. Leslie is irritated with the conversation. I must have missed when she was elected biggest BEE here at Cory’s Senior Center.
Fget bent Porter, im not drunk. And how can you stop someone from doing something they never did in the first place?
Oh big talker are you still keeping your sex with your daughter “in the house?”
Is she as much of as wuss as her old man?
Oh Porter you sure shut me down didnt you?
The Blindman
If I could just throw this in, the Regressive Left is a pretty accurate way of describing sensible liberal ideas overrun by PC Crazy. Yes, it has happened.
The Truth about the Regressive Left: http://tinyurl.com/zxul5zy
MR. HEIDELBERGER – I’m asking for a censure and expulsion for Dithmer. He insulted my daughter in order to provoke words and actions from me that I don’t choose to execute. His conduct is reprehensible, abhorrent and an insult to girls everywhere. Should you care to discuss this cretin’s conduct you can reach me as a message on Facebook.
Thank-you in advance,
Porter Lansing
Mr. Porter, you arguing with and being bested by Mr. Dither is great entertainment. I, for one, hope you don’t let Ms. leslie tell you what to do and persist in it.
Mr. Dithmer is hereby censured, Mr. Lansing. And I will have you know I was waggling my finger at him when I said it.
I think you took his comments far out of context and over-reacted.
This is how I get to spend my Saturday? Come on, guys—take it outside.
Another good post shot to hell!
Yeah,Cory. You could have spent today watching my asparagus pop out of the ground-the first of the new year.:)
Dithmer has a pool? Yuppie!