Yesterday I suggested the ongoing job creation of the Obama recovery could tamp down the Trump vote. Obviously I need to read more Internet. Trump voters are less interested in grumbling about the economy than they are in grumbling about brown people:
On just about every measure, support for Trump increased along with the measured racial animus. As the chart below shows, increased levels of racial stereotyping among white respondents — as measured by belief that black people, Muslims and Hispanics are “lazy” or “violent” — strongly increases support for Trump, even after controlling for other factors. The opposite is true, however, when it comes to support for Marco Rubio. Among white respondents, support for Rubio decreases with belief in racial stereotypes [Sean McElwee and Jason McDaniel, “Yes, Trump’s Biggest Asset Is Racism: Why Bigotry (Not the Economy) Is the Biggest Factor Driving His Rise,” Salon.com, 2016.03.22].
The data was collected toward the end of January. It found no trends among Cruz or Kasich voters. So since January, the Republicans have gotten rid of the one major candidate who showed a clear negative relationship between his support and his supporters’ racist attitudes. Ugh.
To make matters worse, the study found that Trump’s support is highest among folks who say they follow politics “hardly at all.” Lots of Trump voters aren’t reading the papers or the blogs. They won’t hear our conscientious calls to oppose fascism or a defecting Trump strategist’s explanation that Trump is a policy-less pig who ran for President to boost his brand. They’ll just keep cheering and voting for the boorish billionaire in the baseball cap who affirms their great white hopes.
Of course, if those voters aren’t following politics, they won’t follow, understand, or long remember whatever machinations you Republicans need to set in motion to take your party back at your brokered convention, so knock yourselves out, accept that keeping Trump off the ballot is the only victory you can score this year, and start figuring out how to rebuild your party with serious, attentive non-racists in 2020.
Update 19:08 CDT: Luckily…
…50% of Americans say immigrants strengthen our society, while 34% say newcomers threaten American customs and values. There’s even hope among Republicans:
There are also substantial generational divisions among Republicans. A slim majority (51%) of young Republicans (age 18 to 29) say that immigrants strengthen American society, compared to 36% who say they threaten American society. In contrast, Republicans over the age of 30 are more likely to believe immigrants pose a threat to American culture and way of life. Among seniors (age 65 and older), only 22% believe that immigrants strengthen American society, compared to 61% who say they are a threat [“How Americans View Immigrants, and What They Want from Immigration Reform: Findings from the 2015 American Values Atlas,” Public Religion Research Institute, 2016.03.29].
Give ’em a couple decades, and even Republicans will be more inclined to support rational, non-xenophobic immigration policy. Take that, Trump Wall Builders!
This new research from the Public Religion Research Institute finds that South Dakota is one of only eight states (with Alabama, Arkansas, Kentucky, Mississippi, Tennessee, West Virginia, and Wyoming) where more people see immigration as a threat than as a benefit. Majorities in every state but South Dakota support giving illegal immigrants a path to citizenship. We South Dakotans tied with West Virginia for the largest percentage—32%—saying we should deport illegal immigrants. South Dakota is one of only seven states. (But take heart, fellow South Dakotans: PRRI sampled 42,586 Americans but only 155 South Dakotans, so their margin of error here is ±9.9.
Nothing to see here folks, move along, move along. Those of us who spent significant time in other states and overseas are unsurprised that South Dakotans are among the top 16% of racist states.
Seems to me that Trump supporters are about so much more than white supremacy. . .including the whole homophobic fundamentalist evangelical base, those who feel free to hate anything they’re not.
if i were a believer i would have to surmise the donald is in satan’s army. he speaks with a forked tongue, like a serpent (deftly contradicting himself in the same sentence while yet convincing). he claims to be a ‘good christian.’ what a hoot. cruz is just as bad. a majority of south dakotans are stupid, christian, and republican, so one of these jokers will win in sd in the fall. i’m with you, John, but i almost think it didn’t used to be so bad, but i grew up in the seventies and had got away by the eighties. what i learned is there are stupid people everywhere. exhibit trump. exhibit cruz. ad nauseum
but the devil has always been interesting to watch.
Path to citizenship? Hahahaha. That’s a good one cah. Why bother offering a path to citizenship when only 50% of the 5M+ illegal immigrants bothered to get a green card and only 18% received citizenship during the last amnesty? We already have a reasonable path to citizenship that 100,000 Mexicans take advantage of every year … legally. The last amnesty numbers indicate that the illegals aren’t so much interested in citizenship but a job. So let’s issue 2-3 year guest worker visas (not permanent green cards) renewable on good behavior and limit how much money that can be sent out of country so as not to jeopardize their ability to care for themselves.
With racism and bigotry comes violence.
We are witness to the escalating violence coming from within the Trump campaign in the past few months, from punching and beating protestors to campaign staff slugging it out among themselves.
The disturbing part of this behavior is that Trump himself and his cult-like followers not only endorse the violence, they rejoice in it.
Should Trump win the presidency, can we expect his cult to expel people they don’t like or beat them?
I suspect many of those 20,000 mini
Trumps that want weapons at the GOP convention will feel entitled to maintain law and order should he become president.
Last I heard over 40k signed the petition to allow open carry at the Wingnut Hullaballoo in Clevelamd. Secret Service says no way, Jose. Meanwhile in Texas, where intelligence appears to be the most commonly misplaced chromosome,wingnut officials have declared the state convention an open battleground because an armed bunch of idiots is a dangerous bunch of idiots.
BYW-TWMDBS (Juanita Jeans) made the open carry petition available at her site to be signed. A little public service to help wingnut brethren off each other.
mfi, bad news, the Secret Service nixed the RNC open carry plan. Bummer, just as you thought the herd could be thinned through other means than evolution.
Roger, Trump will not win the nomination, Castro will. You will find that with Cruz, up will be down. You WILL be expected to tithe the new dawn of Christianity with as much enthusiasm as the Black Robes brought to the civilized tribes starting in 1492. If you want a more recent history of how fascism works within the Catholic Church, as an example, look to Franco’s Spain.
Good to see the Outrage Brigade™ is already in high dudgeon mode. Put away your pitchforks boys and girls, it’s just a Democrat troll’s hoax.
“On Sunday, the website Cnet pronounced that thousands of people have been had. The petition is satire created by a blog called Hyperationalist, which announced the petition on its blog last week.”
http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article68642767.html#storylink=cpy
The RollingStone even interviewed Hyperationalist, although with their track record of late I don’t know if that means all that much.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/meet-the-man-petitioning-to-get-guns-at-the-rnc-20160329
As it appears you know how to link Don Coyote, can you provide the links for your citizenship numbers above? I am not sure of where you pulled those numbers from so they may be as trollish as the Hyperationanlist you also list above. linky linky
Don, I avoided blogging the petition you mention because it is anonymous and ineffectual. But what you call satire, its alleged author calls “follow[ing] Republican’s arguments for the expansion of gun rights to their rational conclusion”… a conclusion that the Republicans and the Secret Service reject.
Whatever the merits of the path to citizenship, majorities in every state but ours say we ought to quit fretting and offer it to illegal immigrants. If we can mobilize those majorities to come vote and to vote consistently with their beliefs, Trump is toast.
And Trump is the white supremacist candidate. “Hahahaha” is not the appropriate response to that ugly development.
and limit how much money that can be sent out of country so as not to jeopardize their ability to care for themselves.
Good advice for korporate amerika. They wouldn’t need gubmint assistance if they didn’t spend so much to get their profits off-shore to tax avoiding shelters.
Jerry, what would the Secret Service know about guns and violence? Have they had to shoot anyone in recent memory? :)
Wow, the left wing rhetoric is amazing. I am not even a Trump guy, but stories and comments such as these are what is fueling the Trump phenomenon. Throwing out the racist term all the time is starting to piss off a lot of people in this country. Trump isn’t making them angry, 7 years of demeaning police officers and sticking up for and supporting radical groups such as BLM is what is making people angry. The left-wing media continually sticking up for thugs who got into altercations with police, who have rap sheets longer than most SD rivers is what is making people angry. Do any of you even realize there will be more than 700 black on black shootings in Chicago just in the first quarter of this year and you think Trump is the problem. Then talking about how Trump supporters do not read, yet every liberal is busing voters from the inner cities to polling places and you want us to think those voters are informed? But that is okay, because they vote the way all you sheep want them too. The continual bashing of white America, because they seem to be more successful is going to lead to a lot more anger in the coming years I am afraid. The old saying, “if you can’t beat them join them” kind of holds true. If it is true that whites do better, then take a page out of the book and try emulate instead of trying to drag them down too so no one is successful. Wow, for being progressives, your party sure wants to back everybody up!
“Throwing out the racist term all the time is starting to piss off a lot of people in this country.”
I agree… it pisses off a lot of racists who would prefer to not have their racism on display. At least with Obama they were able to hide it a bit and claim they just didn’t like his policies, but with Trump drawing a line in the sand between ‘real Americans’ and those darn illegals and Mexicans who are trying to jump a fence, and those pesky brown Muslims who are different than us… well it makes it very difficult for a racist to not be known as a racist when they openly support Trump and his policies. Someone who isn’t’ a racist simply cannot be comfortable with supporting someone who is, thus it is fairly easily to spot racists these days – they tend to be holding “Make America Great Again” signs.
Sort of like when stum starts whining about “black on black shootings in Chicago” without acknowledging race isn’t the determining factor. If you neutralize variables you’ll find poverty and a lack of opportunity is far more of a indicator of where you’ll find violence and crime, but that doesn’t fit a racist narrative.
Anyone who uses the phrase the “continual bashing of white America” has made it clear they live in a different world. One which somehow confuses being white with being right.
Disgusting. Shameful. And yes… racist.
Voters get bused because wingnuts shut down polling places and then don’t tell anyone.
if you can’t beat them ” gitcher shooty gun and blast the varmints,goldangit, Wingnut proverb 20:16
Actually, I’e decided, after watching Trump when a reporter asked him if he’d ever apologized and he gave a clever little smile, that his followers want to be people who NEVER EVER EVER have to apologize for anything EVER AGAIN. Because they, too have NEVER EVER EVER been wrong.
I see that Mr. Stumcfar has rewatched his saved Fox flux reports on how black on black versus orange is the new black or whatever Fox flux puts out there for the old white fellers to blather over. Mr. Stumcfar probably got a little confused on this though as what may have been his intent was to watch another rerun of the Orlando Wilson fishing show. So here ya go, white on white the way Trump and you would like it to be. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdy0Kynh6oI
@Roger: The numbers were gleaned from various immigration websites and news stories. Here are some of the links I found. Results may vary because of the estimated number of illegals.
The 100,000 number comes from 2013: “Of those who naturalized in 2013, 13 percent were born in Mexico (99,385)”
http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states#Mexican Immigrants
The sources I found stated the number of illegal immigrants in country in 1986 when the Immigration Reform and Control Act was enacted was estimated in excess of 5M. Numbers varied but 5M-5.5M doesn’t seem unreasonable.
This Washington Post story stated that 2.7M illegals received green cards (approx 50%).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/01/30/in-1986-congress-tried-to-solve-immigration-why-didnt-it-work/
Another Washington Post article stated that by 2001 only 1/3 of the 1986 green card cohort (900K) had been naturalized.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/11/26/what-happened-to-the-millions-of-immigrants-granted-legal-status-under-ronald-reagan/
Doing the math you end up with 16%-18% (depending on whether you use 5M or 5.5M ) of the illegal
immigrants in the 1986 amnesty taking advantage of the path to citizenship.
You guys are unbelievable. Why is life tough in the inner city. Is it the much higher rate of single moms with multiple babies? Does it have anything to do with crime, because there is no family structure to help get the kids through school. Is it by chance that there are no jobs for younger people to work at, because nobody wants to put a business in an area that has an astronomical rate of robberies, graffiti and vandalism or does it have to do with schools that most good teachers are scared to work at, because of things that go on everyday. Sure you can blame that on “white people”. Remember you are the ones crying about white privilege when some are pointing out that there is a lot more to the issue than supposed racism. Whatever the so called white model is, according to your head in the sand view point, it is working for a lot of people. SO TRY IT!!! Quit with the poor me attitude and try what works. The nation may find out it isn’t racism after all, but it is a method of surviving. Having babies you can afford, going to school, being involved in extra-curriculars, working a part time job and hopefully going on to college or a trade school. Who cares whose model it is, if it work give it a try! Call me a racist if pointing out facts is racist. Things have gotten worse the last 7 years under Obama, so don’t tell me that the left has a great affect on inner cities, other than making them worse. It is people like you that are for some reason afraid to see the obvious that will make this problem worsen. Until you come to grips with the fact that there are a lot of racial problems because of a inner city culture of drugs and violence that has nothing to do with slavery of 250 years ago, things will never get better!
Racism motivates Trump voters.
A majority of Americans view immigration as a plus for America.
I’m trying to figure out how anything Stu just said refuted either of those two central points from my original post.
How the inner city went drugs and felons, from John Ehrlichman’s own mouth: “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.” http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nixon-drug-war-racist_us_56f16a0ae4b03a640a6bbda1
How many white people build factories in inner city housing complexes? Prolly none,since housing districts are seldom zoned for manufacturing or heavy industries.
Stum: “Things have gotten worse the last 7 years under Obama”
How so? Unemployment is sharply down. Wages are up. Debt as a percentage of GDP is down. Deficit spending is down. The number of insured Americans is up. And yes… violent crime is dropping.
Note the trends reflected in the tables:
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/violent-crime
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/violent-crime/violent-crime
Granted I’m not sure what exactly you’re referring to which is worse under Obama. Teenage pregnancy? The amount of drones in the skies? The number of family farms? The odds of winning at McDonalds Monopoly? You really need to be more specific.
1986 green card cohort? Wasn’t that St Ronnie Raygun’s amnesty for illegals program I hear wingnuts claim Raygun didn’t do?
Be careful here Stumcfar, I was in a vigorous “debate” with a self-professed liberal about the use of the term “thug”. Apparently some professor from a prestigious east coast college wrote a report that the term thug is racist. I disagreed….and before the debate concluded, someone threw Hitler into the mix. Good luck trying to make a point on this blog.
Don Coyote, you must think you are speaking to Mr. Grudznick. Your links are not the slightest bit close to what you were talking about at first. Please man, if you are gonna talk the talk, show some real proof. Those numbers in your first link deal in the most positive manner to immigration and is what the goal really is. The immigration is not just about those “Mexicans” but also about Chinese, Indians and many others who have come here to immigrate. You should go to Mt. Rushmore in June of each year, you will see a wide variety of all nations represented. Immigration is a beautiful thing man and it makes this great country even greater, I am sure you would agree as an immigrant. Go find a pinata to beat on.
You and Trump make a good team, both of you are completely awol with your facts and figures. 1986? really man, that was a few years back to pull numbers from. If you are gonna do that, why not go back to 1776.
Don Coyote must have gotten his “things have gotten worse in the past seven years under Obama”” research from the local KKK meeting or FOX “News”.
I believe what Stumpy was referring to having gotten worse is the racism that whitey wingnut feels because Obama is an uppity Black who has mysteriously taken possession of their White House for his residence. Obama is divisive because he isn’t white. 160 years after the Civil War isn’t enough time for some folks to adapt or accept differences in skin colors.
jerry, Cory, Roger, anyone – what are the real illegal immigrant numbers?
Depends on when we are harvesting oranges, strawberries and other back breaking jobs that gringos cannot do or will do. You may check on our own CAFO operations here in the state of denial..er..South Dakota to see what we have going on here. Also, the summer help during tourista season, that is about as good as you are gonna get on this. As they say, it varies. What I can tell you is this, there is not one job, not one, that has been taken from a locally produced American. I would ask anyone to prove me wrong.
Here is one American that really tried to be an immigrant worker. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg3WFt72RM8 The next time you have an orange or any kind of produce, think of the ladies and gents who picked that tomato while you are kicking them in the teeth.
Here is an old boy from down in Alabama who knows first hand about the importance of immigrant workers, here is a hint, ol Ted Castro and Trump also know the same. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4gzps0lm1E The man ain’t talking about black folk, my guess is that he still is kind of 1862 on them, but he is all for these folks.
More people not working now than when Obama took office. You can not increase a deficit astronomically and then reduce your own increase and call it a reduction. The number of insured is up. What a joke. For people living paycheck to paycheck is having a $3,000-$5,000 deductible really being insured? The number of minorities killing each other is considerably higher in the past 7 years, black unemployment is more than twice that of whites and as a percentage is higher than when Bush left office. I certainly hope all liberals are not so simple minded and easily fooled as those that post on this blog or our country is seriously doomed! Hey Jerry, if your party wasn’t so hell bent on giving out welfare checks, people would work those jobs and have a little more feeling of self worth and little pride in what they do. I am not talking about the old and sick as you liberals somehow think are the only people on welfare and disability. I am not sure what a lot of you do, but maybe get a job working with people and you will have a different perspective on life!
Where are the stats,Stumpy? You say- I say hogwash. Obama’s largest deficit was smaller than dumbass dubya’s largest deficit. Obama’s first deficit is for year 2010. The budget for 2009 was approved in 2008,making it Bushes last deficit.
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/include/usgs_chartDp01f.png
Stub, I’m probably the only liberal on here that has been saying all along that Obama is definitely not a liberal by any means.
I’m not a big Obama fan and will not defend him on here.
“More people not working now than when Obama took office.”
False. The unemployment rate in January 2009 when Obama took office was 7.8% and it soon peaked at 10% (I’m sure you would love to blame him for that rise even though he just took over a few months earlier). The current unemployment rate is 4.9%.
You can try to complain that the unemployment rate doesn’t tell the whole story, but we use the same metrics year after year and there is no data to support the idea that there are more people out of work now that there were during the recession.
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
“You can not increase a deficit astronomically and then reduce your own increase and call it a reduction.”
The first year of the Obama Presidency was immediately after the Great Recession and the deficit as over $1.4T. The 2015 deficit was around $438B. The only way you can claim that isn’t a reduction is if you ignore the recession of 2008 and blame it all on Obama. That might be convenient for your argument, but realistically it doesn’t work. As much as we might not like to admit it, a President’s policies and actions don’t take effect immediately and you aren’t going to find any economist who would blame the Great Recession upon Obama considering he wasn’t sworn in until the following year.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-annual-budget-deficit-remains-near-7-year-low-in-june-1436810691
https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals
“The number of insured is up. What a joke.”
You call it a joke, I call it a fact. You can make up whatever numbers you wish surrounding deductibles (I notice you never bother with sources), but we all know there are 20MM people who have health insurance today who had NO form of health insurance previously. That’s a win.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/many-more-americans-now-have-health-insurance-1442448607
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/03/03/
“The number of minorities killing each other is considerably higher in the past 7 years”
Source for this considerably higher figure? Sounds like something Trump would send out via Twitter.
“black unemployment is more than twice that of whites and as a percentage is higher than when Bush left office”
Black unemployment has always been higher than whites, and although you again fail to cite a source, are you suggesting that this gap has widened somehow based upon the economic policies of Obama? It seems the data I’m finding suggests it has essentially been an issue for the past 60 years since they started tracking the data. In fact the rates of black unemployment vs. white unemployment tend to move up and down together so I’m not sure what data you are using to suggest there is some great shift in this regard.
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, there was a small dip in the black unemployment at the beginning of the recession but it soon leveled out and the disparity we see today is in line with what it was pre-recession. So not a lot has changed – but feel free to examine the data yourself. Once again the only way that argument works (to suggest Obama has made things worse) if it you blame him for the recession that was the result of massive deficit spending and massive unemployment when he stepped into office.
http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?ln
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/08/21/through-good-times-and-bad-black-unemployment-is-consistently-double-that-of-whites/
You are entitled to your own opinion – not your own facts. By all significant measures, we as a nation are better off today than we were when Obama took office. That is a near universal statement and although I will not attribute all of this to Obama as much of it is outside of his control, I cannot and will not allow you to spew such nonsense that is so easily refutable. I may not always agree with Obama’s policies, but he clearly has been a successful President – much more so than his predecessor.
Jenny, there is not a single “illegal” immigrant in this nation. There are only immigrants with different life experiences, just like citizens. Some citizens and some immigrants break laws by committing illegal acts. If a South Dakotan drives without first obtaining a drivers license, she has broken a law but that does not make her an “illegal” South Dakotan. If an immigrant brings her children across the border without first obtaining the required papers, she has violated a law, but she is no more an “illegal” immigrant than the unlicensed driver is an “illegal” South Dakotan.
If a South Dakotan rents your house but fails to pay rent on time, she has violated a civil obligation but she has not committed a crime. If an immigrant hotel worker overstays her VISA work authorization, she has violated an administrative regulation but she likewise has not committed a crime. In each case there is a civil remedy to address the contract or regulatory noncompliance, but in neither case is the person involved an “illegal.”
Thus, the answer to your question is zero, there are simply no illegal immigrants. Use of the term “illegal” to describe these human beings is nothing more than an effort to demean someone, much like calling someone a wop, spic, nigger, chink, gook, wetback, redskin, etc, etc. Calling someone “illegal” is a label created to help citizens who feel bad about themselves and their status in life by characterizing an “Other” as someone of lesser value than the citizen.
Unfortunately, today we are so desensitized to the pain our labels inflict on others, we see “illegal” immigrant somehow normalized, just as in the 19th century the term “nigger” was part of our everyday lexicon.
Perhaps the question you intended to ask was “how many immigrants have committed a crime,” or “how many immigrants have crossed the border illegally.” But when you ask how many “illegal” immigrants are here, the answer is always the same – none.
Jeff, I’m not debating the term thug here. I’ll use it: Trump encourages racist thugs.
Jenny, I’ll back you up: Barack Obama is a centrist. Bernie Sanders is more liberal. Dennis Kucinich is more liberal.
And Craig, teenage pregnancy? Historic low in 2014, continuing decline for every main racial group since 1991.
But come on. Huffington Post has an article titled “Should Tanning Be Considered Appropriation?” White models are appearing to look like black models. Sounds like racism! Did you see that clip where a young black woman tells a white guy he shouldn’t be wearing dreadlocks? Cause it’s her culture. Give me a break entitlement comes in many shapes and sizes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDlQ4H0Kdg8
you get no breaks happy till u kno what yer talking about:) btw, is appropriation really worth the ink? nobody really cares about “whether white privilege is real” except you. if race doesn’t exist, why bother here?
beautiful work bcb!
Exactly Leslie it’s absurd. Racism exists only because people insist on defining it and making it in to something that it isn’t. Liberals need “racism” to get up on their high horse just as much as the bigots need it to feel better about themselves.
way up in the bleachers, craig. thx.
eve- thx 4 that cite that I heard recently on npr.
what I like that has changed under Obama is that criminal justice’s failures are finally getting scrutiny and “murder by cop” is identified. these are BIG fuc*ing deals, like most of what Obama has done are for the 99%.
stu McFarland-does spittle come out when u say this stuff?
“have a little more feeling of self worth and little pride in what they do….as you liberals somehow think are the only people…. I am not sure what a lot of you do, but maybe get a job….”
ofcs. “I am not sure where” u live but in SD right now we have a large white republican majority of individuals and institutions, public and private that identified itself as of record by name with largely vitriolic hateful ignorance(e.g. racism) in comments claiming the state just can’t allow the Lakota request to lawfully change the name of their central scared peak, visible for hundreds of miles (Beaver Walls NE, Larime Peak WY, ect). this includes the governor’s cabinet.
the reason for the change? To “have a little more feeling of self worth and little pride in what they do”, is my guess.
happy. as u kno I disagree with you.
If I remember right Cory agreed or even stated racism is just a social construct. Stupidity exists so call out stupidity but why continue with labels that have no true meaning and only serve to continue a belief in a false concept.
In the United States both scholars and the general public have been conditioned to viewing human races as natural and separate divisions within the human species based on visible physical differences. With the vast expansion of scientific knowledge in this century, however, it has become clear that human populations are not unambiguous, clearly demarcated, biologically distinct groups. Evidence from the analysis of genetics (e.g., DNA) indicates that most physical variation, about 94%, lies within so-called racial groups. Conventional geographic “racial” groupings differ from one another only in about 6% of their genes. This means that there is greater variation within “racial” groups than between them. In neighboring populations there is much overlapping of genes and their phenotypic (physical) expressions. Throughout history whenever different groups have come into contact, they have interbred. The continued sharing of genetic materials has maintained all of humankind as a single species………
http://www.americananthro.org/ConnectWithAAA/Content.aspx?ItemNumber=2583
stumcfarland-“For people living paycheck to paycheck is having a $3,000-$5,000 deductible really being insured?” do yah think that might be a product of republican obstruction?
It is a fool’s folly to even attempt a racist that white privilege exist.
Craig,
South Dakota republicans are always proud of the low unemployment/
Cory once calculated that if Indian reservations were added to the calculations, the unemployment would be 14% or higher.
The point continues that racism doesn’t exist because race doesn’t exist, so all who insist on it are the “racists” perpetuating it. People always come up with some stupid reason why they’re better than someone else and the associated privilege.
Why accept these antiquated ideas? A person having to look at themselves as a member of a race shows a lot more about that person and how they interact with the world than the way things actually are without that distorted lens. The stupid things people do are another story.
Regarding welfare. How easy is it for someone to qualify for welfare? What is the criteria? Anyone?..class…show of hands..anyone?
How about disability? What is the criteria? Anyone? class? Mr. Stumpcfar brings that up like it is something that is really striven for, something that your guidance counselor would recommend. He then blathers the same old tripe about a “party” that writes the checks for that. I am assuming that he thinks I am republican as that is who writes the needed checks in South Dakota and who presently has the distinction of writing the needed checks in Washington.
So tell us Mr. Stumpy, what are the qualifiers for both programs? Also, who is involved with something like disability? How long does it take to get it?
Racism exists only because people insist on defining it and making it in to something that it isn’t.
Call it candy and make it taste sweet and more palatable. Racism exists because wingnuts like to use it for political purposes and then lie through their teeth about using it. If every person, place and/or thing was white there’d be no more need for racism. Quite right,whitey?
In a year from now,race ism will be totally replaced by purest, unadulterated sex-ism thrown at Madame Prez HRC.
If every person were white they would come up with some other way to make an in and out group. Most people need to feel superior, pat other superiors on the back and anoint one another with privileges. This is nothing new.
But right at this moment there is no such thing as racism because race does not exist. Saying it does just reinforces something that is a made up human concoction. Kind of reminds me of the god delusion. If everyone says they believe it, it exists in their minds even if science does not back this up.
Jenny, to your earlier question, in “5 Facts About Illegal Immigration in the U.S.,” Pew Research reported the number of unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. was 11.3 million, down from the 2007 peak of 12.2 million.
Hap, thanks for reminding me of your challenging critique. You at least provide a thoughtful repsonse, something other than Stu’s still unsubstantiated spittle-bursts that don’t say Word One to undermine any of the arguments offered.
If I correctly recall our previous conversation about your point that races and thus racism do not exist, my practical response is that your interesting philosophical argument does not preclude asking the questions the above study asks about racist animus and resentment. Even if race (like trickle-down economics?) is a fairy tale, we can still criticize those who believe and peddle the fairy tale.
And it is far from a fairy tale to say that there are people with lighter skin who think people with darker skin are less human. It is not a fairy tale to say some of those lighter-skinned people work to deny people with darker skin equal dignity and rights. Whether it’s racism or just “racism”, it’s a problem.
is the 1998 anthro newsletter the only thing you’ve read on this theory? speaking of dawkins, i’m pretty sure u can find a youtube vid by heavy weight philosophers/scientists on this issue. you and I have already done this some time ago here. it is such a non-consequential topic for me, I can’t see going down that road with u again. I check the Caucasian box myself when asked, rather than debating every time. I am what I am. alsace/lorainne back to 1700s best I can tell on the old man’s side who married Canadian/scotch. later homesteaders. they don’t care enough to have dug deeper. English shipping port/stowaway to new jersey/servitude, French-Indian War/settling in Appalachia, married to unknown hill country people the road is named for, at about the same time on the old lady’s side. completely uneducated white-trash probably. simple poor people. it is still hardly developed wilderness. hillbillys. unremarkable. except they raised me w/ nary a word about race. I thank them.
who cares?
(Ah! Find more on Hap’s and my conversation about race as a social construct in this July 2015 blog conversation: https://dakotafreepress.com/2015/07/26/go-back-to-africa-aberdonian-tells-blacks-in-defense-of-confederate-flag/)
But since racism doesn’t exist we have to express reality as it is and not allow people (and ourselves) to define things by labels that continue an ignorant way of looking at the world. There is a lot of interesting reading by googling racism social construct but I find that statement by the anthropologists to be the most authoritative and I assume others read these posts besides Leslie who sadly it seems has closed his mind. That’s part of problem since we’ve learned things we need to relearn.
My friend that I refer to now and then is a fun example and to be racist myself right now (cause amusingly Cory once said how else are we gonna talk about it), she’s white and Native American but went to a predominately black school and had multiple kids (with multiple black fathers). She sounds very, very black and has a black sounding name. When people talk to her on the phone they assume she’s black but if they come in to the office after conversing they get a jolt cause she’s white white white. She laughs at this, but she also told me it was economics that encouraged/allowed the births and those of many of her friends. Lots of children without fathers that didn’t used to occur before welfare (Aid to Dependent Children).
But as far as interesting links there are many you’ll find on this topic, but here’s one (then off to work): 11 Ways Race Isn’t Real
http://www.vox.com/2014/10/10/6943461/race-social-construct-origins-census
yer a last word gal, eh hap?
Unsubstantiated. Go read something other than your far left wing propaganda. If you can not see the common sense in what I have posted, you can just suspend your campaign for office now. I know you get warm fuzzies from the other left wing radicals blathering on your blog, but you are so far from mainstream that snowballs in you know where stand a better chance. The facts I have posted are just that and just because Huffington and MSNBC don’t post them does not mean they are not true. Good luck, you are going to need it!
Stu! Your screaming grates on my nerves and, more importantly, moves no argumentative needle. I haven’t cited Huffington Post or MSNBC once in this discussion. Neither has Craig, who gave us a variety of reasonably reliable sources and government statistics. You’re just shouting your generic “Liberals suck!” insults but not engaging in the actual conversation taking place in an attempt to dismiss everything I say as propaganda and lies. But you haven’t shown that anything I’ve said here is a lie.
So one more time, Stu: what I said was that research shows that racism motivates Trump voters more than it motivates other voters. Do you have anything to say about that claim, or do you accept it as fact?
Let’s question race a different way to Stump, Cory. Stu, do you know that when a black person or family buys a house in a white neighborhood that houses usually start depreciating? Why do you think that is?
This is called the Broken Window Theory and Real Estate agents know exactly what I’m talking about and valid studies have shown that this does happen.
Don Coyote just inadvertently revealed that he is a racist with this comment, “she has a black sounding name”. What exactly is a black sounding name, Washington, Roosevelt?
He continues by describing her, not by name, but as white as white and has multiple kids with different black fathers.
Coyote’s need to point out skin color further confirms his need to label people by skin color.
Actually the Broken Window Theory is something else, my apology. Cory, Roger and other DFPers I’m sure know what I’m talking about. Real Estate agents could tell you all about how prejudice takes place in the housing market when a minority family moves in. Agents can’t talk about it though.
No Leslie I just had to leave for a while. My friend’s name sounds like LaTeesha by the way. I’ve been called racist many times by Roger on this blog, which I’ll accept since Cory gave me anonymity and said get a thick skin. It started with my saying do not prejudge Trace O’Connell in the supposed racial incident (which turned out not to be true), but that’s the world Roger lives in, not the world I live in. The way I look at things has changed because of people like Lawrence Diggs. I have, and have had many “Native American” friends as was my last boyfriend, and over the course of my life I’ve had boyfriends of every “race” and background many times over. Although I didn’t discriminate then, I just no longer accept that race exists (although there are superficial differences sometimes), but science is on my side of the argument so it’s not philosophical. It wasn’t that long ago people believed the world was flat, but in the long run science and logic wins out. I prefer to see Cory as a progressive cause there’s too much dogma being tied to liberal. He thinks on his own even if you don’t agree with him, or he with you, he’s intellectually honest (about as much as any primate can be). We’re all just dumb apes imo, so anyway Leslie read that link with an open mind. I’m not a gal but a gay guy.
happy, maybe racism doesn’t exist to you b/c you or your friends have never experienced it, but that doesn’t mean it’s not out there.
Do you believe that age discrimination is not real also? Fat discrimination? Muslim discrimination? Preconceived stereotypes about women?
We all have some prejudiced beliefs in each of us. Saying the issue of racism is not out there anymore is like saying the human race is perfect. That is just not true. We are all a little prejudiced, a little bit racist, some more than others. It is a human emotion. I look at women covered up in muslim clothing and think that she is being controlled by muslim men.
I want to tell her that no religion should dictate how a woman should dress.
I look at a black women with kids in section eight housing and think she’s taking advantage of the system. I look at single white moms with several kids and no father and think she’s trashy. If I think these things as a staunch democrat I KNOW that many many people think these same thoughts.
I understand what you’re saying Jenny, but you’re missing my point. Age differences exist, size differences, but when it comes to race there’s no biological fact to differentiate the human race. Hate crimes occur, there’s prejudice and discrimination, but to call that racism when different races don’t exist is nonsensical. And to use labels that don’t exist in science legitimize the concept of race.
Okay, happy – you continue to say there is no biological difference with races and that may be true, but it doesn’t really mean anything. It just sounds nice and sunshiny and that humans should be able to all get along.
Different skin colors shouldn’t mean anything either, but leave it to humans to have killed and tortured each other over the color of their skin.
Physical differences like skin color and eye shape do exist among the races but do you deny that also?
Physical differences like skin color and eye shape do exist among the races but do you deny that also? No, but how more superficial can you get than skin color? We’ve been taught “racial distinctions” so we can see them as other and not like us. The link above 11 Ways Race Isn’t Real is worth reading. And look at the commenters who want to hang on to their old notions of race and ask why they won’t even consider examining them. Some of those people would likely say they believe in equality but they don’t really. What is the killing and torture about? Economics. Religion. It’s not skin color. Thankfully kids don’t learn about Mongoloids and so on in school any more but they certainly are still learning it from us if we don’t question our own archaic views.
Perhaps the more accurate term would be “dehumanization.” We can use virtually any characteristic to dehumanize groups of people thereby making that group an “Other” not worthy of respect. Dr. Phillip Zumbardo has done some incredibly interesting and illuminating research on the topic.
“At the core of evil is the process of dehumanization by which certain other people or collectives of them, are depicted as less than human, as non comparable in humanity or personal dignity to those who do the labeling.”
http://www.lucifereffect.com/dehumanization.htm
Whether we dehumanize others by skin color, eye color, age, sex, gender, country of origin, religion, politics, or whatever, dehumanization seems to help us justify attitudes and laws that are intended to marginalize and often harm those we dehumanize. Arguing over the validity of the distinctions, such as whether there are different races, seems to overlook the underlying problem.
Gawd, I love the smell of dingnuts in the morning! If race doesn’t exist, why is it specifically referred to in the 15th amendment? Don’t tell me,let me guess-in the context of the founding fathers race was a euphimism for assault weapons.
Dehumanization—Bear may be onto the term we want to use and the real problem we want to solve. Whether race is a scientifically valid distinction or a mere social construct, whatever distinction people use or abuse or confabulate as a basis for treating others differently, any attitude or action that denies a human being equal dignity is a problem.
26 seconds in, dawkins dispenses with this red herring argument happy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq13SvXIw58
I said this yesterday on a diff. thread.
OK Leslie you’re not gonna find me in denial of evolution, natural selection, human variability or embrace political correctness so the Dawkins clip makes its point by saying differing scientific information is important for purposes of classification. But what classifications? He also says he doesn’t agree with checking boxes which I consider to be socially institutionalizing the historically inaccurate concept of race as we’ve known it: Caucasians at the top (based mostly on skin color). The word race has a totally incorrect meaning for most people. Science needs to be honest, and I’ll give you saying all differences being entirely a social construct is false, but I’m stickin with much of what our society regards as racial differences are extremely minor and a product of social construct. The extent of genetic difference, what appropriate classification should be made from that information, and what significance that holds for society to recognize (if any) is the point of argument and I think (after making a couple adjustments) Dawkins might be on my side considering your clip. He’s mainly saying don’t deny the information. That’s fine, but I’m saying the classifications are critical or they are way too easily used as BCB indicates. The word race has no accurate meaning and how many dissected boxes should society recognize anyway? That’s quite different from hard scientists who classify endlessly. This molecular biologist\ genomics researcher has this to say:
The answer is complicated and it all depends on how one defines “race”. In evolutionary biology, a “race” is a morphologically different population which is geographically separate from other populations of the same species. The morphological variation we see in human populations originated by geographic separation (something that no longer exists, and there have been encounters between different populations for a long time now in human history). There is a continuum in the variation so one cannot define the human races as traditionally defined, in neat groups, and 3-5 groups. If we look at some key loci, one can even differentiate between people of nearby localities!
Naturally, if we focus on only a few genes that code for morphological differences such as skin tone, hair type, body shape, etc.) we would obviously find more genetic differences. A few of these genes are known, many of the genes for these morphological differences are not clearly understood yet.
Overall, the human species is very young, geologically and biologically speaking, so the variation is just not great.
Some of the variation depending on geographical ancestry in human populations is medically relevant (increased risk for some diseases, different metabolism of certain drugs, etc.). So for medical purposes it sometimes makes sense to focus on ancestry. For example, people of Jewish ancestry carry certain mutations that increase the risk of breast cancer, at higher frequencies than other populations. The trait for sickle cell anemia is higher in people from certain African descent. In some Mediterranean populations, beta-thalassemia is more prevalent than in other human populations.
https://www.quora.com/Is-race-a-social-construct
And Leslie people grab a hold of science and twist it for their own devices. This Jared Taylor is like a David Dude using your information: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SJNVb0GnPI
Craig Venter who mapped the genome says race is just a continuum. He should know somethin, shouldn’t he? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vS7AO9XYj4
So if the social scientists went a bit too far they’ve had their stinkin reasons. We had our own eugenics program in the U.S. until WWII. And you want big brother in charge of health care??? So much easier to sterilize the imbeciles that way.
“Some People are Born to be a Burden on the Rest”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States