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Fox Picks Ten Pageant Participants; Recent Entry Not a Disqualifier

There’s a beauty pageant for GOP presidential candidates on Fox tomorrow night. It’s not a debate; you can’t put ten people, let alone all seventeen declared elephant riders, on one stage and conduct a real debate (see my July 8 post on debate tournament format to see how Fox could produce for more legitimate, informative, and entertaining debates).

Fox chose its ten pageant participants based on the average of the five most recent GOP primary polls. Here’s the score from Real Clear Politics:

Real Clear Politics, GOP Primary Polling Average, downloaded 2015.08.05
Real Clear Politics, GOP Primary Polling Average, downloaded 2015.08.05. (Click to embiggen!)

Gordon Howie grumbles that his fellow theocratic Founding-Father repudiator Bobby Jindal didn’t make the cut due to Fox’s unfair use of polls:

Being left out of the first debate might not be fatal to their candidacy, but it would be hard to argue that it is helpful.  Really, shouldn’t voters have the opportunity to hear from a candidate who just recently entered the race, like Jindal?  It might be understandable that the media would want to eliminate a few candidates so the stage isn’t so crowded, but is that fair to the candidates… and voters? [Gordon Howie, “An Election Without Polls,” The Right Side, 2015.08.05]

Recently entered? Bobby Jindal announced on June 24. Chris Christie announced June 30. Scott Walker announced July 13. John Kasich announced July 21. Christie, Walker, and Kasich all made the Fox pageant cut. Everyone in the above average from Christie on down is likely within the margin of error, meaning Christie and Kasich enjoy positions above Jindal by random luck, not merit. But note that Donald Trump and Jeb Bush announced their candidacies only one week and change before Jindal. Howie can find plenty of reasons to gripe about Fox’s pageant choices, but recent entry does not appear to be among the legitimate reasons to deem Fox’s methodology flawed and arbitrary.


  1. mike from iowa 2015-08-05 08:33

    French lesson for today-Veni,vidi,vomito!!! The wingnut circus is an exercise in man’s ability to withstand obnoxious dingbats spewing noxious poison about nothing in particular. Not even entertaining,to be sure.

  2. Don Coyote 2015-08-05 08:57

    While the Republican “debate” participant selection process is less than perfect, the Other Team is totally MIA with Zero “debates” being scheduled. By this time in 2007 the Other Team had already had 5 “debates”.

  3. larry kurtz 2015-08-05 09:05

    Nice try, buttdart. Civility is a hallmark of the national Democratic Party while Don’s earth haters can’t wait to sling spit at one another.

  4. Lynn 2015-08-05 09:13


    “buttdart”? What happened to peaceful herbs? lol Right!

    They should of divided the large field of GOP candidates into two separate debates and start eliminating from there.

    I’d like to see Chris Christy go up in the polls. Oh my! There would be some folks panicking in Colorado, Washington, Flandreau and Oregon if he were elected. lol

  5. Lynn 2015-08-05 09:21


    Chris Christy is just another flawed human being. So now your going after people that have struggled with being over weight which a number of factors could be contributing to it? Physical appearances?

  6. Don Coyote 2015-08-05 09:24

    @Larry: Civility? Like when Obama snarked in the New Hampshire debate “You’re likeable enough, Hillary.” Bwahahahaha.

  7. Lynn 2015-08-05 09:26

    Plenty of time to see who emerges from the GOP field. The Donald will self-implode eventually and it would be great to see if Chris Christie will gain in the polls with his “telling it like it is”. I do like his intro talking about his parents. It’s funny!

  8. mike from iowa 2015-08-05 09:28

    Immigration provides liberals with illegal voters. Obama is a Muslim. Obama isn’t a real American and doesn’t love his country. Obama is responsible for all the wars in the world. Obama hates Jews. We will have Sharia law forced on us. Obama is a tax and spend liberal. Did I miss anything?

  9. larry kurtz 2015-08-05 09:28

    A Clinton/Franken ticket will crush whichever testicles survive the GOP primary.

  10. mike from iowa 2015-08-05 09:30

    Civility like when G Hitler Weasel Bush called Geraldine Ferraro a B##CH!

  11. caheidelberger Post author | 2015-08-05 09:36

    Don, your comment seems to consider Fox News part of the Republican team. Ah, but we already knew that.

    I wonder: is Team Clinton resisting any public appearances with Sanders and the challengers? That would be the predictable strategy for the frontrunner.

  12. Don Coyote 2015-08-05 10:03

    @cah: “…Republican “debate” participant selection process..” is indicative of me considering Fox as part of Team Republican? Should I also consider CNN part of Team Republican since they are also using polls to cull the candidates in the next Republican debate? Their process varies little from Fox.

    Clinton may be using a predictable campaign strategy but then is she in charge of scheduling the debates? Shouldn’t that be a function of the DNC and the debate sponsors? I would surmise it’s more of an issue of the burgeoning Hillary email scandal and a desire of the DNC not to further expose Hillary to accusations of trustworthiness, honesty and competency. Right now, stonewalling and obfuscation are her best friends.

  13. Don Coyote 2015-08-05 10:08

    @Mike: That was Barbara Bush who made that comment not Bush ’41 and it wasn’t in the context of a primary debate. Wow, two strikes with one swing. You should be playing for the Twins.

  14. larry kurtz 2015-08-05 11:53

    Tike Mike Rounds ducked debates and so did Kristi: funny when the shoe is in the other mouth, init?

  15. Troy 2015-08-05 12:18


    I can’t remember if I commented on your debate “format” but I thought about it. In general, my comment was you idea innovative and had merit in theory. However, its practical problem is the candidates running comprehensive campaigns (fundraising, organization) like Bush, Walker, Paul, Rubio have less to win and more to lose under your format. They just wouldn’t play and it falls apart without them.

    That said, I think the current format is fine. Top-tier at this stage has its rewards. At the same time, there might be an advantage for the “bottom-tier” in that fewer players means a better chance to “break-out.” Someone will bust into a higher tier from that group. And whoever it is (I’m betting Fiorina or Jindal) will be better off than having been one of 10 in the main debate. Those who don’t break-out in the non-prime debate will be dead but might not know it.

    Sidebar: I’d make a small wager the Dem nominee will be either Biden or Schumer. Hillary is not as gifted with political skill as Bill.

  16. mike from iowa 2015-08-05 12:34

    Babs didn’t call Ferraro a b-word. She said it sounded like rich,which could mean any number of things the way wingnuts redefine stuff. Maybe Bush thought she was an angel. So I sorta apologize for naming the wrong Bush. Let’s try this again. Civility like this? – Many reporters, especially women members of the press, cheered her campaign, leaving Bush at a decided disadvantage. As his anger flared after his televised debate with Ferraro, Bush was quoted as saying that he had “tried to kick a little ass last night.”

  17. Troy 2015-08-05 13:06

    Bush never debated Ferraro. Repeatedly having facts wrong isn’t civil.

    Referring him to Hitler is the ultimate in lack of civility.

  18. Troy 2015-08-05 13:59

    Mike, you are right. I was thinking GF debated DQ. Still doesn’t excuse comparing GHWB to Hilter.

  19. Rorschach 2015-08-05 14:20

    I think Chris Christie debated DQ. The outcome was uncertain, so he went back again even in a blizzard …

    These guys are all going to be jockeying for the farthest right position on the stage. And that’s before the debate even starts. Once it starts, whoever gets the most John Birchy wins with the all-extremist-all-the-time GOP primary voter. The far fringe of the party from 30 years ago is now the mainstream.

  20. mike from iowa 2015-08-05 14:40

    Troy,I didn’t compare one to the other. I just said Hitler Weasel Bush because it is easier to remember than Herbert Walker and comes off the tongue much smoother,too. If any comparison is made it should be weasels that are being denugrated. With a weasel,you know right up front it is a weasel.

  21. Roger Cornelius 2015-08-05 14:52

    “GF debated DQ”, is that Dairy Queen?

  22. larry kurtz 2015-08-05 14:52

    We are renting a 64″ plasma teevee for the two GOP circuses, will be popping some popcorn, drinking a couple of bottles of New Mexico-crafted Gruet Blanc de Noirs and laughing our asses off.

  23. Roger Cornelius 2015-08-05 15:02

    I’m expecting Donald Trump to take over the debate format in the same manner Palin attempted to do with Biden during their debate, of course she made a complete fool of herself and lost the debate, hopefully Trump will do the same.
    Yesterday on CNN I thought I heard that the bottom tier of republican losers would debate live prior to the top tier.
    One thing is for certain, the FOX “News” 1st edition of “Ripley’s Believe It Or Not” will be a spectacle to behold and serve as a primer for what not to do during a debate.

  24. larry kurtz 2015-08-05 15:07

    It’s being widely reported that Bill Clinton recruited Trump to run just like Dick Wadhams did with Larry Pressler and Joel Arends did with Boz.

  25. Rorschach 2015-08-05 15:51

    Trump stirring the GOP pot and bringing out the worst in the real GOP candidates helps Hillary, doesn’t it? Either the real candidates adopt his radical positions – which hurts in the general, or remain silent – which makes them look weak, or repudiate his radical positions – which drives a wedge between them and their radical base voters. He makes the GOP candidates spend their money. And he takes the focus off of Hillary much like saying, “squirrel!!”

    Trump has said the economy does better with Democratic presidents. He has been a Democrat himself before he transformed himself into this cartoonish/buffonish/WWE-style caricature of the GOP base voter. If the Clintons didn’t recruit him they ought to give him a big thanks for his help.

  26. Rorschach 2015-08-05 16:48

    Let’s take bets. Which candidate will be the first to call for the removal of John Boehner as speaker? I think Bush will beat Cruz to that punch for the shock value of it.

  27. Lynn 2015-08-05 16:55


    A race to the bottom or in this age of reality tv a real GOP political primary with shock value? lol

  28. Rorschach 2015-08-05 17:04

    This debate may make episodes of Party Down South look intellectual.

  29. caheidelberger Post author | 2015-08-05 20:49

    Roger, I think Trump could dominate the debate. He’s smarter than Palin. He knows how to make interesting television. And he has experience with beauty pageants.

    Troy: Chuck Schumer? Does a New York City candidate have any of the biggest-town baggage problem nationwide that a Sioux Falls candidate has in South Dakota?

    Troy, as for debate format, note that my proposal isn’t innovative: we’ve been doing it in the HS debate world forever. It just changes how things happen in TV land. And given the current GOP field where there is no clear frontrunner, I think we could get darn near everyone to show up. Everyone in single digits comes for free media. Bush and Walker come because they have to beat Trump and establish dominance. And Trump comes because he’s Trump and relishes the opportunity to beat these guys up face to face.

  30. grudznick 2015-08-05 21:37

    These fellows should arm wrestle it out. If somebody pulls Mr. Trump’s hair it will turn into a full-on scrum. Two of those fellows should probably come out wearing clown make-up just for laughs. And I bet Ms. Clinton will be watching, and taking notes.

  31. Deb Geelsdottir 2015-08-05 23:27

    “Veni,vidi,vomito” Hahahahahahahaha! omg, that is hilarious Mike.

    Yes, there is a debate of the non-qualifiers in the afternoon tomorrow. It’s sometimes referred to as the Kids Table, right Mike?

    I have my GOP Talking Points bingo card, beer and friends ready to go. This is going to be a blast. I want Trumple and Crustie to get into a shouting match with creative, “colorful” language.

  32. Troy 2015-08-06 07:08

    Deb, I even laughed so hard I was able to resist it wasn’t French but Latin.

    You have a good point. If anyone might cause Trump to implode, it will be Christie. Two brash Nor’easters might not be able to contain themselves. I like to say the guy who has sucked all the oxygen out of the room is flammable. The Cruz dynamic might also be interesting is I suspect Trump has sucked the most air from Cruz’s balloon. But, Cruz also has to be attentive to the cerebral Paul.

    Finally, Rubio will be interesting. As everyone’s second choice, he can be Clintonesque circa 1992 who also was everyone’s second choice and make hay or similar second choice Pawlenty and fizzle.

    All this said, even with some theatre, the end result will be a winnowing of the bottom tier with one surging into prime time and a slight reshuffling at the top with one or two dropping down.

    At the end of the day, winning is about steady blocking and tackling and not getting hurt in these early debates. Sidenote: this is why I am surprised Hillary isn’t at minimum giving some indication of being open to a debate as it feeds one of her weaknesses- being insular. She and her team know how to block and tackle and she is smart enough to avoid getting hurt.

  33. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 07:12

    Troy, go back over to Pat’s Place and slime our people from there, k?

  34. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 07:15

    Cory, Troy’s comments are off-topic: delete his stupid s—.

  35. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 07:16

    Rand Paul is cerebral like Sarah Palin is chaste.

  36. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 07:19

    The only winners from any earth hater debate are the advertisers.

  37. Lynn 2015-08-06 07:42


    Troy’s comments are not off topic since the subject is the GOP Presidential Debate this evening.

    I do agree that Chris Christie will be the most likely one to call The Donald out and help him on the path to implosion. Those New Yorkers and from New Jersey can be refreshingly direct at times to put it mildly and with it’s fun to watch.

    Larry take some time to remind yourself that those are peaceful herbs you are smoking. lol

  38. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 07:46

    Christie will be the largest hippocrite on the dais for sure.

  39. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 07:47

    Curious whether Foxsnooze will ask if any of the earth haters performing in Ohio tonight how they feel about legal cannabis since Rand Paul is all for it.

  40. Lynn 2015-08-06 07:49

    correction: 2016 GOP presidential primary debate this evening which Troy is on topic.

  41. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 07:55

    Rand Paul is cerebral like Chris Christie, Rafael Cruz and Jeb Bush are electable.

  42. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 07:56

    Marco Rubio is interesting like pink slime is edible.

  43. Lynn 2015-08-06 07:58

    Do some of these people think of anything else besides their obsession with pot? Geez! If this stuff were somehow legalized in 50 states would they be lost? Next obsession be getting their pot for free courtesy of taxpayers? or next obsession legalizing other drugs/intoxicants? All of the above?

    Signs of addiction? No way! lol

  44. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 08:00

    Lynn, you brought it up: your addiction to misinformation is legion.

  45. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 08:06

    Chris Christie is addicted to food, Jeb Bush addicted to hate, Trump addicted to power, all these white men are addicted to sex: what’s not to like?

  46. caheidelberger Post author | 2015-08-06 08:08

    [Larry, your attempt to exclude people from conversation is off topic and offensive. Don’t come to my table and tell me who I can sit and chat with.]

  47. caheidelberger Post author | 2015-08-06 08:08

    Troy: “the guy who sucks all the oxygen out of the room is flammable”—I’m going to remember that.

  48. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 08:11

    Cory, go over to Troy’s stupid analysis and see how long your comment stays up.

  49. caheidelberger Post author | 2015-08-06 08:25

    “Kids’ table”—as Troy notes, there is an opportunity for someone at that earlier, smaller forum to distinguish herself or himself from the dreck. Heck, that smaller losers’ bracket might allow all of those candidates to distinguish themselves with less jostling and shouting and more intelligent discussion—

    —wait: Perry? Santorum? Jindal? Graham? Less shouting and more intelligence? My blood sugar must be low. There’s no one who’ll make a good President in either bracket, and a lot (Trump, Walker, Cruz…) who would make disastrous Presidents.

  50. Lynn 2015-08-06 08:25

    Can anyone rank the top 5 performers in tonight’s debate? I believe Walker is on thin ice regarding his claims to success in Wisconsin and could be called out on it.

    1. Chris Christie
    2. Jeb Bush
    3. Donald Trump
    4. Rand Paul
    5. Ted Cruz

  51. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 08:35

    The big political winners tonight will be Secretary Clinton and Senator Sanders.

  52. mike from iowa 2015-08-06 08:54

    On a scale of 0-minus infinity the top 5 are no one,no one,no one,no one and no one. The rest fit in about halfway to minus infinity.

  53. leslie 2015-08-06 09:07

    i’d say butt dart is not too far off for the low brow trolling common from mr. woof. i have compared him to typical hair-filled coyote feces lying on the trail. bwah ect, is stylistic of the worst political internet trolls (paid for their efforts to distract?).

    his shots at hrc and dnc are repub talking points like shots at dwshultz. female hate?

    larry and lynn should get a room at the next pot conf. (because there are not many anti-pot conferences) but his humor and cutting wit are more entertaining than hurtful. it is a razor’s edge on the path to nirvana. (troy, enlighten us w/ whether that is french or latin. er.. never mind,…useless info to. this thread)

    i feel troy and coyote seek the same objective-our complete destruction-in different but equally devious ways, which are both annoying and anything but civil. jimo

    the repub governor-kasich or whatever seems the only real contender w/o an angle and possessing presidential gravitas.

  54. Bill Fleming 2015-08-06 09:07

    The 2 best Democrats to debate a Donald Trump/Sarah Palin ticket would be Joe Biden and Al Franken. I would pay $20 to watch it. Come on, let’s do it and get it out of our system. LOL

  55. Lynn 2015-08-06 09:16


    Did you ever listen to Al Franken’s radio show on the old Air America or watch his movies before he won his Senate seat? He was incredible and funny! No holds barred.

    Personally I’d like to see Franken remain in the Senate where I feel he could be most effective and maybe just maybe the Dems win the majority in the near future.

    Biden? Do you think Joe will run? After two attempts can he defeat the Clinton Juggernaut in terms of funding and support?

    I look at the GOP primary debate as knowing and not taking for granted the competition with trying to understand where they are coming from. Who knows? Things happen and one of them could win in the general election especially if there is overconfidence on the Dem side.

  56. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 09:22

    John Thune and Kristi Noem are two of those lying liars Al Franken warned us about.

    A ticket with Hillary Clinton and Franken as her veep pick would be unstoppable against whichever clowns the GOP nominate.

  57. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 09:24

    If Franken leaves the Senate another qualified Democrat will be elected in Minnesota but if Sanders is nominated the Republican push for legal cannabis could derail a Democratic win.

  58. Lynn 2015-08-06 09:24

    Wall street has endorsed both Hillary and Jeb

  59. leslie 2015-08-06 09:25

    winning prez. 3xs in a row may be a bit unprecedendted.

    biden’s late-son wanted him to run…perhaps the sentiment will power him to make that decision. i’d rather see a female dem make a difference.

    lynn do i know u?

  60. Lynn 2015-08-06 09:26

    Then again I could be PP as Larry has accused me of numerous times using some tech term to hide my IP. Planting the seeds of destruction. Where again am I now Turkey?

  61. Bill Fleming 2015-08-06 09:26

    Clinton/Franken would be okay, but the debates wouldn’t be as funny. ;-)

  62. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 09:26

    Whatever it takes to exterminate the murder of Republican crows.

  63. Lynn 2015-08-06 09:27

    feeling the live and peace eh Larry?

  64. Lynn 2015-08-06 09:27

    Love and Peace*

  65. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 09:28

    Clinton would decimate Rubio in a debate and Franken would eat Fiorina alive.

  66. Lynn 2015-08-06 09:29

    leslie I highly doubt it. I rarely have been out to the hills although it’s great to get out deep into the National Forest

  67. leslie 2015-08-06 09:29

    christie is a better example of the warning…and his obvious health situation is no model for the nation…the world. no excuse for thune/noem/rounds though….

  68. leslie 2015-08-06 09:32

    there was a lynn dem that left me rotting in jail…in a civil case years ago! :o

    starbux calling….ttfn

  69. Bill Fleming 2015-08-06 09:33

    Actually, if Donald Trump became the GOP nominee, the best guy to run against him would be John Stewart. Amirite?

  70. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 09:34

    Lynn is a Democrat like PP is a journalist.

  71. caheidelberger Post author | 2015-08-06 09:40

    I vouch for Lynn. Is that enough, Larry and Leslie, or are we going to keep up with the fratricide/sororicide?

    Bill, Stewart would be the proper antidote to Trump; maybe that’s why Stewart is stepping away from The Daily Show? That said, a Trump–Stewart Presidential election would represent something gone haywire in American politics… and I think Stewart would admit that from the stump: “My fellow Americans, you’ve picked a reality TV star and a comedy TV star as your nominees for President. May whatever gods you believe in have mercy on your souls.” If such a media-induced calamity came upon us, the next election would likely be a face-off between Justin Bieber and Grumpy Cat.

  72. Troy 2015-08-06 09:41


    I thought of that phrase one night watching a show on firefighting. I don’t remember what the circumstance (cold walls or source of cold or something else) which causes oxygen to concentrate enhancing the odds of spontaneous combustion or maybe a dangerous explosion. Anyway, the firefighter used the phrase “it sucks up the oxygen making condition’s flammable” and its political application jumped in my head. Feel free to use it without attribution. Serendipity caused me to put the two together. As you know, I’m not naturally clever.

  73. Lynn 2015-08-06 09:41

    Leslie that certainly wasn’t me.

    Franken debating would be a great show but he only won by about 100 votes when he was 1st elected into the Senate. I was one of those who voted for him and caucused for him. That was an experience.

    As mentioned before Chris Christie is just another flawed human being like the rest of us. His being over weight could be caused by a number of health related challenges. If elected he wouldn’t be the 1st president who was overweight. Then there is the question of we are holding our elected officials to higher standards than ourselves? Are we going after everyone who is overweight? Physical appearances?

  74. Lynn 2015-08-06 09:45

    Cory Thank you!

  75. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 09:48

    Christie infarcting on stage works for me.

  76. Bill Fleming 2015-08-06 09:51

    Interesting question, Lynn. We were discussing just that point the other day when a good friend hypothesized that you can’t get elected as prez these days if you are 1. fat or 2. bald.

  77. Lynn 2015-08-06 10:36

    When Hillary Clinton was directly confronted with a Yes or No question supporting Keystone XL she replied: “If it’s undecided when I become president, I will answer your question.”

    When questions arose on the subject of trust with her falling poll numbers she replied: “People should, and do, trust me.” A statement not particularly worthy of trust.

    Hillary would do well in the 2016 GOP presidential primary debate this evening as some posted above on this thread…………….Oh I forgot she is running as a Democrat.

  78. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 10:44

    I don’t want to be sweating out election night wondering who is going to win. I want a crushing defeat of the GOP agenda and a Clinton/Franken ticket can do that.

  79. Rorschach 2015-08-06 11:44

    If the fall race is Clinton v. Bush then everybody has to hold their nose when they vote. Many will probably just stay home. I’ve voted for the lesser of two evils in other elections, but unless and until that choice is forced on me I’m going to look for a better alternative on the Democratic side. Bernie Sanders can’t win. I like Joe Biden.

  80. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 11:46

    Hey, R: with which well-known western Democratic woman would VP run?

  81. Rorschach 2015-08-06 11:51

    Sen. Patty Murray (D – WA).

  82. mike from iowa 2015-08-06 11:51

    Kid’s table it is,Deb. Or whatever comes before the junior varsity debate team shows up.

  83. Roger Cornelius 2015-08-06 12:10

    CNN just announced a Democratic Presidential Debate for October.

    In a not to distant past interview Bush was asked about running against Hillary, he said something like, “since our families are really close, it would be like running against my sister”.

    We’re 15 months out from the general election, discussion of vice presidential running mates seems futile at best. But, since the subject came up, I think Hillary should pick Bill Clinton as her vice president choice.

  84. caheidelberger Post author | 2015-08-06 12:13

    BIll! Fat: Taft. Bald: Ford.

    Troy: just keep reading. Dakota Free Press will make you cleverer.

  85. Bill Fleming 2015-08-06 12:53

    Cory, Ford was never elected. Eisenhower was bald, but he also had some military hero stuff going on. When my friend was talking about “Modern Presidents” he only went back to those in our lifetime. (Eisenhower.) The closest thing to “fat” we’ve elected is Bill Clinton (BMI approaching 30); and arguably no “bald” guys (although Nixon came pretty close with his receding hairline.)

    Neither my friend nor I are arguing that’s the way it “should be” but rather that just seems to be the way “it is” in terms of general American voter disposition, especially when it comes to electing presidents.

  86. Lynn 2015-08-06 13:28

    Former Senator Jim Webb seems like he has been such a class act being soft spoken and humble yet with so many accomplishments in his life but unfortunately his style of being soft spoken doesn’t stand out in the WWE reality TV political environment.

    Grew up in poverty, Two Purple Hearts from his service in Vietnam, Democrat but served under Reagan as Secretary of the Navy, wrote in the NYT against the invasion of Iraq, was against intervention in Libya and is a known author and has won an Emmy and wrote and produced a movie.

    I’d love to see Jim Webb go up in the polls.

  87. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 15:02

    Jim Webb infarcting or stroking any time works for me.

  88. Lynn 2015-08-06 15:04


  89. Lynn 2015-08-06 15:07

    One may not agree with a politician’s stance on issues but to wish that person death or a crippling medical condition or emergency? Larry where is the inner peace and love for other human beings?

  90. Deb Geelsdottir 2015-08-06 15:35

    First, I too found Troy’s comment, “the guy who has sucked all the oxygen out of the room is flammable,” very clever. My guess is with that synthetic hairpiece, Trump is in serious danger of combustion.

    Earlier today I read an opinion piece in the NY Times saying Hilary needs debates for precisely the reasons previously mentioned. They will toughen her, sharpen her message and entire campaign staff, and get her in the public eye.

    My Dream Team is Warren/Sanders. Heavenly. They could do for the US as Dayton and the DFL have done for MN. Won’t be perfect, any more than MN’s government has been. But oh! It would be so much better for America, top to bottom. A government of Liberals! YES!

  91. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 16:04

    Lenny Kravitz’s penis slipped out on stage? So what? Wait for the GOP Debate on tonight – there will be 10 dicks on stage!

    Bette Midler (@BetteMidler)

  92. mike from iowa 2015-08-06 16:29

    iowa sinator,Charles Grassley,head of sinate judiciary committee.has another investigation started trying to tie HRC and her e-mails in to Benghazi.

  93. Roger Cornelius 2015-08-06 17:06

    Why would it be so difficult to believe that the republicans would elect a realty TV star as president?
    Hell! They once elected a B Movie star as president.

  94. Lynn 2015-08-06 17:28

    Sorry the youtube link above was from Now This but I couldn’t get it directly from them.

  95. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 17:32

    Sounds like Fiorina is winning at the Happy Hour Debate.

  96. grudznick 2015-08-06 17:54

    That’s good, Lar. I like that young woman.

  97. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 17:57

    Carly Fiorina is going to drive the terrorists into the ground like they’re a tech company.

  98. Lynn 2015-08-06 18:11

    Bernie is drawing crowds… more than Hillary and in the video supporters claim the messier his hair the more powerful he becomes.

    From “Now This News”

  99. Troy 2015-08-06 18:16


    We wholly agree. Carly won by several lengths. Perry surprised me. Graham definitely appealed to the hawks. The rest took up space.

  100. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 18:20

    Rubio/Fiorina has already been decided: all the hoopla is ordained by the Koch Machine.

  101. Roger Cornelius 2015-08-06 19:54

    This Just In:

    Mike Rounds has endorsed Christian extremist Mike Huckabee.

  102. larry kurtz 2015-08-06 21:27

    What a serious waste of time the earth haters’ debates have been.

  103. Deb Geelsdottir 2015-08-06 21:56

    Wow! This is much more entertaining than I expected! BTW, Rubio really has big ears. The fans are hootin and hollerin. This thing is appropriately held in a sports arena. Kuh-raaaazee!


  104. Rorschach 2015-08-06 23:40

    Rubio’s ears are his salient feature. His performance was ok, but uneven. He doesn’t strike me as presidential. Not comfortable in his own skin. Lacking gravitas. Not an alpha male.

    Cruz underwhelmed, but rarely got to speak.

    Huckabee did nothing to expand his shrinking demographic base.

    Carson had little chance for anyone to get to know him better, but had a funny and endearing closing statement. He’s a smart guy. I’d have him for a doctor if I needed a lobotomy, but I wouldn’t have someone with his ignorance of national and world affairs as President.

    Bush exuded a testy vibe, especially toward the end – and not justifiably so because there was seemingly nothing to make him testy. He didn’t self-destruct though, and did ok.

    Walker did well, and may have won some supporters.

    Rand Paul did well, and may have won some supporters. He is the alpha male that Rubio is not – completely comfortable in his own skin.

    Chris Christie spun his wheels and didn’t gain any ground. His position in favor of government’s indiscriminate and warrantless gathering of phone data from Americans arguing against Rand Paul came off poorly for Christie and may cost him.

    John Kasich appeared unwell. What’s with the major facial tics? He didn’t answer the questions asked, waved his arms around too much, tried too hard to rally the home crowd without offering sufficient substance, and will lose his small amount of support based upon this performance.

    Trump was Trump. Don’t expect consistency, or clarity from him. Everything he does and says is part of a flim flam a show, and anyone who doesn’t recognize that is a dupe.

  105. Rorschach 2015-08-06 23:47

    My pick for winner: Walker.

  106. Roger Cornelius 2015-08-06 23:58

    “Houston we have a problem”, actually the republicans have a problem called Donald Trump and it’s serious.

    The opening question of whether or not candidates would support the eventual nominee and not run as a third party candidate got Trump boos when he indicated he would run as a third party candidate if he did not get the nomination.
    So, here’s the problem. The GOP patriarchs know that Trump should not get the party’s nod, they are working overtime to defeat him and quite possibly boot him from the party.
    republicans are admitting tonight that if Trump runs as third party candidate he will likely hand the presidency to Hillary.
    Tonight Trump not only insulted all politicians and some republicans, but by swiping at Rand Paul insulted many Libertarians.
    Democrats have loads of material to work with, especially his insults to all women everywhere. How a woman can still call herself a woman and support Trump really is a mystery, or is it?

  107. Rorschach 2015-08-07 00:23

    I can’t give these jokers a pass on their selective memories. Talking about Iran, Hubcapabee quoted Reagan as saying, “trust but verify.” Cruz reminded people that Iran released the hostages the very same day Reagan was sworn in as President. So Reagan good. Obama Bad. They all agreed Iran can’t be trusted.

    But have we forgotten why Iran released the hostages when Reagan took office? He’s the guy who sold weapons to Iran. And lied about it. There was a former CIA official named Bush involved when that happened. We don’t need any more Bushes dealing with Iran on our behalf.

  108. leslie 2015-08-07 03:11



  109. Lynn 2015-08-07 05:51


    Cruz seems to have his facts wrong. The Carter administration was consumed with getting those hostages back home and they did all the work in negotiations. Everything was pre-arranged. Reagan took credit but he and his team had nothing to do with their release.

  110. Rorschach 2015-08-07 07:13

    Iran held those hostages till Reagan got in because former CIA official Bush had secret meetings with the Ayatolla during the campaign and promised to sell them weapons. It’s obvious that what Reagan/Bush got in return was a campaign issue to use against Carter – which was the continued holding of the hostages. Whether anyone agrees or disagrees with this, what’s clear is that the Ayatolla liked Republicans more than Democrats – because look who sold him weapons.

    It’s outrageous that America ever sold Iran weapons – and Rand Paul last night (without mentioning Reagan) specifically said we have to stop selling weapons to ISIL’s allies. While ISIL is Sunni and Iran is Shia, it’s clear he’s not for filling the middle east with American weapons that will eventually be turned against America and our allies.

  111. Lynn 2015-08-07 07:53


    Thank you for adding another interesting element to what happened back then. You have President Johnson negotiating an end to the Vietnam War then Nixon secretly negotiating with the Vietnamese offering a better deal and then Reagan/Bush secretly negotiating behind President Carter’s efforts with Iran which included illegal arms sales which should of been pursued even further at the time. Slimeballs

  112. jerry 2015-08-07 08:42

    And of course of course, there was a serious non debate of Obamacare. Remember all those gas bags hate of that thing? There were all these wealthy gas bags and no one wanted to talk about it. NOem should have been there as she is all gas baggy about Obamacare so much so that she voted against it like a jillion times or at least 60, whatever comes first when you are dealing with the non reality of the republican party.

    Hey, how about that Bruce dude on the farewell for Jon Stewart? He rocks, no?

  113. Troy 2015-08-07 09:19


    I find your assessment especially interesting because you don’t have any direct interest in a particular candidate. A couple of questions:

    1) Did you not mention anyone from the first debate because they didn’t do anything for you to remark on or because you didn’t watch it?

    2) What was your reaction to the Christie/Paul exchange (also could be a libertarian/conservative exchange)? I’m not talking about the policy as you discussed but your outside perspective on resonates with regard to how argued (Christie emotional/practical vs. Paul philosophical). I know this question isn’t worded well so i hope you can get the essence of my question.

  114. larry kurtz 2015-08-07 09:32

    I was impressed by the way Christie’s jowls shook when he talked and how Rand Paul’s makeup started melting.

  115. Bill Fleming 2015-08-07 09:59

    Not sure if it’s what you’re asking, Troy, but I was sorry to see both Christie and Paul take what should have been an inportant overarching political discussion on privacy rights and turn it into a personal, high-school level pissing match. They both flunked in my opinion.

  116. Rorschach 2015-08-07 10:05

    Didn’t watch the first debate, Troy.

    As to the Christie/Paul exchange, when I see and hear Chris Christie I see and hear Bill Janklow. They are cut from the same cloth. They both seem to think that the rules don’t apply to them and they can do anything they want without any accountability. If you follow Christie’s line of thinking on phone data gathering from Americans without any suspicion of wrongdoing – he seems to feel like there is no privacy. Government can get whatever it wants on anyone whenever it wants without a warrant. It’s the prosecutor mentality run amok. He has no respect for constitutional rights. Example: Let’s say Christie suspects someone in particular. According to him you can skip the warrant and instead gather information on 1,000 people instead of just 1 and claim you gleaned useful information on the one from the big batch. And who knows? maybe you’ll catch someone else for something in the process that you would never have suspected. Big brother is watching – soviet style.

    That wasn’t the question though. I think Rand Paul got the best of the exchange (not just because I agree with him on this but) because he tied his arguments to specifics – the 4th amendment to the constitution. Christie, the lawyer, offered no authority for his position that government can do whatever it wants with the private records of US citizens with no accountability. My guess is that Christie did nothing to attract voters with his argument, while Rand Paul probably did make some inroads with voters who didn’t really know what he was about previously – especially younger voters.

  117. mike from iowa 2015-08-07 10:33

    Not wasting time trying to watch utter chaos,I chose to watch paint dry. I learned everything I need to know about wingnuts from drying paint.

    Walker has an agenda only a koch bros could love. Trump is a blithering,freaking idjet. Cruz real name is Raphael not Ted. And it appears more likely HRC will follow Obie in the WH.

  118. larry kurtz 2015-08-07 10:35

    Difficult to know which of these extremists are more odious: Santorum, Huckabee and Jindal are about as unelectable to the presidency as Troy is.

  119. larry kurtz 2015-08-07 10:38

    Although not a religious man i am praying that Trump pulls out of Troy’s earth hater party and runs an unaffiliated race.

  120. Troy 2015-08-07 11:19

    Bill, thanks for your comment AND confirmation I didn’t ask my question well.

    Rorschach, thank for getting the thrust of my question as poorly asked as it was. In short, you found Paul’s substance more effective than Christie’s appeal to the visceral (desire for safety). I agree but like you my libertarian inclination might be skewing my view but gauging by the crowd reaction, I think it sounded like Paul scored a slight victory at the moment. That said, my gut is Bill’s reaction- I think Paul’s passion over-shadowed the substance of what he was trying to say. In short, Paul got drug into fighting it on Christie’s terms instead of Paul’s and lost because he was on the other guy’s home field.

  121. larry kurtz 2015-08-07 11:29

    Troy, is Christie’s arrogance and obesity more off-putting or does his lisp make you want to google a speech pathologist?

  122. larry kurtz 2015-08-07 11:31

    Makes me wonder whether his jowls make him sound like he’s talking with a mouthful of Cheetos.

  123. Gayle 2015-08-07 11:45

    Lynn “Hillary would do well in the 2016 GOP presidential primary debate this evening as some posted above on this thread…………….Oh I forgot she is running as a Democrat.”
    I would agree wholeheartedly! The impression I get she feels as entitled to live in the Whitehouse as Mitt and his wife.
    When the MSM is owned by 6 corporations and the dark money for HRC buying a lot of ads, I think we will need to beg for more debates than the 6 the DNC has slated. IMHO Bernie is not a Washington insider like Clinton, so they do not want him visible and talking. Wasserman Schultz could not even define what a democratic socialist is, you would think she would be more informed as the chairman of the Democratic National Party. Why did she not say Bernie is a Democratic Socialist? I just thought that was odd.

  124. Lynn 2015-08-07 11:54


    Please excuse Larry’s special hatred for Governor Chris Christie. He feels that his life consuming obsession with the use of Marijuana might be threatened if Governor Christie wins the nomination or he may influence the other GOP candidates to change their stance and make it illegal in states that legalized such as Colorado and Tribal lands.

    Personally I thought Governor Christie did well last night in asserting himself. New Jersey has a Democratic legislature and a long history of corruption prior to Christie getting elected. After spending some time in Manhattan and the Twin Towers prior to Sept 11th and knowing how many people commute to work into NYC from Jersey I can see why Governor Christie has the aggressive stance that he does on terrorism.

  125. larry kurtz 2015-08-07 12:01

    Troy, please excuse Lynn’s obsession with stifling life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

    Terrorism is when the other guy does it.

  126. Lynn 2015-08-07 12:06

    Governor Kasich impressed me with his accepting Medicaid expansion for Ohio and how he is using some of it to reduce the prison population in treating those with mental illness and especially addiction. One of the biggest problems we have is that we are warehousing many people in correctional facilities and not getting them the help they need. His answer regarding LGBT was encouraging also but that is as far as I’d go in terms of my support.

    Governor Huckabee is the big loser and should be relegated to any future minor debates. The separation of church and state would be eliminated and our country would turn into a religious state much like a few South Dakota legislators dream about. 21st Century inquisitions may not be too far of a stretch for those God Squad members.

  127. Lynn 2015-08-07 12:22

    If Governor Chis Christie were the GOP nominee I can see him getting more Independent and Democratic votes than the other more polarizing GOP candidates. It worked for him getting elected in New Jersey and I could see it happening nationally too. He is more moderate given the political climate where he came from yet speaks with that northeast “telling it like it is” and not beating around the bush that many voters find refreshing as demonstrated by Sanders and Trump.

  128. larry kurtz 2015-08-07 12:27

    Obama’s basketball court would come out of the White House then a ham and jello bar would go in its place.

  129. Troy 2015-08-07 12:41

    For Democrats consideration:

    Is Schumer’s decision to oppose the Iran deal confirmation of:

    1) He might become the Dem. nominee for President?

    2) New York is actually in play during the Presidential election and Florida might be lost?

  130. larry kurtz 2015-08-07 12:46

    Israel is the Donald Trump of the Mideast.

  131. Lynn 2015-08-07 12:50


    Constantly attacking a candidate’s physical appearance seems very low. Given your description of your past 3 wives whom have my sympathy I can only imagine how you will attack Carly Fiorina
    given how well she did at the 5:00pm debate last evening.

    It’s no wonder the South Dakota Democratic Party lost another 900 registered voters Aug 3rd to Jul 1 with your conduct online supposedly representing the SDDP. SDGOP and Independents are gaining.

  132. leslie 2015-08-07 12:55

    the johnson/nixon/vietnam election subterfuge w/GOP;

    and then the reagan/carter/iran GOP subterfuge;

    seems similar to the 47 GOP senator/iran nuke negotiation letter thune signed onto ;

    all of which we discussed here previously and illuminates a GOP trait of being willing to play very dirty in the game of winning elections.

    the whole GOP obstructionist subterfuge led by limbaugh- “i hope he fails”, conflated reagan worship and the boehnor/mcconnel/thune dishonest spin, “i’m not a scientist” bullsheit apppears to be nothing more than theater.

    it is based on disgraced nixon values, “b-actor” astrology, drunken crying orange golfer pssft, and our very own “if we don’t somebody else will” thuneisms. the GOP DOES nothing more than invent election winning propaganda and when in power, destroys humanity for the sake of Halliburton-esqe corporate vales.

    money taken from the poor, given to the rich, while killing and destroying the planet. how does that work?

  133. larry kurtz 2015-08-07 12:58

    Anyone not running for a Democratic seat in South Dakota should be registered in the earth hater party: I don’t think you heard me. You’re having a hard time today, Lynn.

    Fiorina makes sense for GOP #2 just like Ann Coulter makes sense for motherhood.

  134. leslie 2015-08-07 13:06

    mercer’s updates on slight repub increases, slight dem decreases and huge independent increases, seem helpful given GOP propaganda, SDGOP dominance, dem performance failure, low wages and, feminist/anti-feminist dysfunction in SD.

    what is the real take away of the independent numbers?

  135. Lynn 2015-08-07 13:10


    Hate to say this but it’s only going to get worse here in South Dakota for Democrats.

  136. larry kurtz 2015-08-07 13:14

    it’s always darkest at the butt-crack of dawn.

  137. Bill Fleming 2015-08-07 13:43

    Troy, if the candidates for President were Schumer v. Trump, (two New Yorkers) for whom would you vote. ;-)

  138. larry kurtz 2015-08-07 13:53

    Quick reminder, Lynn: 2014 wasn’t Dick Wadhams’ first rodeo.

  139. Lynn 2015-08-07 14:01



  140. larry kurtz 2015-08-07 14:04

    Putting plants in races to siphon resources from other candidates, like Wadhams did with Boz and Larry Pressler is a tactic old as prostitution itself.

    Try to keep up, k?

  141. Lynn 2015-08-07 14:12


    Try to keep up? You do realize one of the symptoms of heavy long term marijuana use may be paranoia and conspiracy theories right? Plants, me being PP or some other black ops SDGOP operative using high tech whatever IP addresses to hide my location, and your obvious fear and constant physical appearance attacks against Gov Christie given his stance on Marijuana.

    Get some sleep, go out for a hike and enjoy your beautiful surroundings here in New Mexico.

  142. larry kurtz 2015-08-07 14:17

    I’m commenting from the tractor as i plow the road. You meant ‘there’ in New Mexico, right?

  143. Curt 2015-08-07 16:48

    Would you two please take it outside?

  144. mike from iowa 2015-08-07 16:59

    Wedding bells in the future for Lynn and Larry? You sound like you are already married.

  145. larry kurtz 2015-08-07 17:23

    Hey, Troy: on your snarky question on Schumer David Brooks just said on NPR that Chuck wouldn’t be opposing the Iran deal if he thought the President didn’t have the votes.

  146. Deb Geelsdottir 2015-08-07 17:37

    Roger asked, “How a woman can still call herself a woman and support Trump really is a mystery, or is it?”

    It’s a mystery to me too.
    I thought Kasich did well. I didn’t know what to expect from him because I hadn’t heard him before. He seemed the calmest, most rational and thoughtful. He didn’t speak in talking points, nor pandered to the base.

    It seemed to me that Christie did better in the confrontation with Paul. I really dislike interruptions and shouting over another, which Paul did. Today when I heard a replay on the radio, I realized that Christie sounded calmer and more reasoned. Part of that may be due to Paul’s voice being in a higher register. BTW, I agree with Paul and disagree with Christie, but the latter definitely won on style.

    Bush was a non entity for me. There was nothing notable I heard from him. Same with Carson, Huckleberry, and whoever else was up there.

    Trump was simply a buffoon soaking up the attention. After the debate he whined endlessly that Fox was picking on him and he viciously attacked Megyn Kelly for asking him about women.

    I didn’t see the first debate, but I’m going to see if I can find it on YouTube because I’m curious about Fiorina.

    I detest that Trump creature and would vote for GWB before him. But I wouldn’t vote for Darth Cheney over him. If it was a choice between T-rump and Darth Cheney I’d just cut my throat because there would be nothing to live for.

  147. leslie 2015-08-07 17:53

    we pen dems and SDP aren’t giving away our time fighting republicans in SD for nothing.

    youtube “racebait 101” for drinking liberally’s new 11 minute video that lays out what has to be done to stop republicans from redistributing all remaining wealth and resources to the majority of congress that have become millionaires who serve billionaires who fleece the 99% of trillions of dolllars.

    it breaks down as an institution of:


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