Admitting Obamacare Works, Trump Can’t Come up with Better Plan

On Monday, Donald Trump agreed that the Affordable Care Act is the standard for good health coverage legislation… at least when it comes to pre-existing conditions:

President Donald Trump said Monday the Republican health-care bill being negotiated in Congress ultimately will protect Americans with pre-existing conditions as well as Obamacare does.

“I want it to be good for sick people. It’s not in its final form right now,” he said during an Oval Office interview Monday with Bloomberg News. “It will be every bit as good on pre-existing conditions as Obamacare” [Margaret Talev, Jennifer Jacobs, and Jennifer Epstein, “Trump Wants Health-Care Bill to Protect Pre-Existing Conditions,” Bloomberg, 2017.05.01].

Remember: you cannot read that sentence without also reading, Obamacare is not a disaster; it works so well that new legislation must be at least as good.

Of course, the House Republicans’ zombie health care bill did not protect people with pre-existing conditions from being priced out of their coverage, so Donald Trump actually had to do some work this week, promoting Michigan Representative Fred Upton’s amendment to restore that protection. Trump now supports adding another $8 billion to the GOP plan to keep folks with pre-existing conditions from losing their insurance. That’s on top of $15 billion added to bolster state risk pools that will have to pick up the slack if Congress kills the ACA.

Unfortunately, that’s not even close to meeting Trump’s Obamacare standard:

According to one estimate, it would take $178 billion per year to adequately fund state high-risk pools, where people with preexisting health conditions would go to access health insurance coverage.

However, the AHCA would only provide $15 billion annually for two years and then taper off to $10 billion annually for seven more years. And, this is not even a dedicated funding stream; states could also use this money to pay for other things like health promotion activities, dental and vision care, or behavioral health treatment. In previous analyses, we found this level of funding woefully inadequate.

Apparently, some federal policymakers feel the same way. That’s why the Upton Amendment, as reported, adds in another $8 billion over five years in an attempt to shore up financial help for people with preexisting conditions.

But even this is not enough [Lynda Flowers, “Protecting People with Preexisting Conditions: Upton Amendment, as Reported, Is Not Enough to Get the Job Done,” AARP: Thinking Policy, 2017.05.03].

Besides, the return to risk pools is a return to the dysfunctional status quo ante that drove the reforms of the Affordable Care Act:

“Prior to the enactment of the Affordable Care Act, 35 states operated high-risk pools, and they were not a panacea for Americans with pre-existing medical conditions,” said Andrew W. Gurman, president of the American Medical Association. “The history of high-risk pools demonstrates that Americans with pre-existing conditions will be stuck in second-class health care coverage — if they are able to obtain coverage at all” [Tami Luhby, “High-Risk Pools Won’t Match Obamacare Protections for Pre-Existing Conditions,” CNN:Money, 2017.05.03].

Speaker Paul Ryan is putting the Republican health plan up for a vote tomorrow, before Congress takes an 11-day break (they just got two weeks off for Easter—I want that job!). The vote count is still close, in part because the bumbler in the White House has focused on twisting arms in Congress and not engaging any of the major players in providing and using health insurance:

Though Trump this week has dialed up reluctant Republican lawmakers on the repeal bill, his hands-off approach to the health care industry is a far cry from the Obama administration’s concerted effort to win over the groups as Obamacare was drafted. The Obama White House wound up cutting deals with every part of the health care industry — insurance companies, doctors groups, hospitals and the pharmaceutical industry — to get the Affordable Care Act passed in 2010. Though Republicans panned those deals as giveaways and they even made some Democrats uncomfortable, they were key to holding the Obamacare coalition together all these years.

“Every single health care group was deeply invested in the [ACA],” [AARP lobbyist John] Rother said. “It couldn’t be more opposite today” [Adam Cancryn, Sarah Karlin-Smith, and Paul Demko, “Deep-Pocketed Health Care Lobbies Line up Against Trump,” Politico, 2017.05.03].

Trump has accepted Obamacare as the standard for covering people with pre-existing conditions; he could stand to accept Obama as the standard for negotiating a passable health care plan.

But really, Trump should just admit that he has no plan and that Republicans can’t come up with one that’s better than what we Democrats crafted under President Barack Obama.

183 Responses to Admitting Obamacare Works, Trump Can’t Come up with Better Plan

  1. Darin Larson

    Cory, it is like you read my mind in deciding to write this story. I called Noem’s office today on this very issue. After all the promises made with regard to treating people with pre-existing conditions the same as other people, if the Republicans pass some pale reflection of their promise, there needs to be consequences for the promise breakers.

  2. I’m glad we’re on the same wavelength, Darin. Republicans are hitting a wall built on (1) the practical effectiveness of Obamacare and (2) the fact that they wasted six years not writing a real plan and then elected an idiot President who can’t help them craft any real policy.

  3. Porter Lansing

    There’s only one plan that covers pre-existing better than Obamacare. If Repubs would rename it Patriot Insurance it’d be as popular as Costco and the local Co-Op.

  4. republicans have never ever intended to come up with a better plan. Their plan is to destroy the black dudes legacy, you cannot support anything that comes from a minority just does not fit the white way. The way I see it, it will go back to the days of 2008 and before. If you are sick, you are probably going to get a discount from the drug company to treat your MS or cancer, but you still will have something to keep you alive long enough to drain your resources completely.

    If you want heart surgery, you will go to India. If you want orthopedic surgery, you will go to Thailand and the list goes on. I think that this time around, medical tourism will be popular in Mexico as well as Canada. As Mexico is already the go to place for dental work, it only makes sense to add other venues and it is warm there! So there, build that wall low enough so white fat folks can climb over it, then we will have that going for us.

    No more nursing home availability for the elderly unless you pay, will also be in the cards as Medicaid will cease to be offered. So there may be a yuuuuge industry in the final expense category. I see in Europe they have a new casket that is made from cardboard that will retail for 100.00 Euro’s or about $1.20.00 (more or less) American. Families might have to take care of their own when we die, but that is progress. Bannon/trump/NOem/putin voters will have gotten their wish though, no more Blackcare only trumpcare, now don’t you all feel better now.

  5. You guys are hilarious. With even the authors admitting it needs to be fixed and carriers are fleeing the exchanges as fast as they can, premiums are going through the roof, and incremental coverage is 20% of what was promised, if this is your definition of “working,” I would hate to see what you this is a failure.

  6. Porter Lansing

    Troy Jones … It hasn’t been Obamacare as written since Republicans became the majority and systematically and diabolically removed vital parts of the original law, the way a demon would drown a child. Every item you mentioned was caused by Republican mean spiritedness. What a sad commentary to a political party that worships no God but greed.

  7. Troy, the President has admitted that, on the issue of pre-existing conditions, ObamaCare sets the standard.

    Insurers are leaving the exchanges because not enough healthy people are buying in to subsidize the sick and injured who actually use the coverage. The solution is not to create narrower risk pools with even fewer healthy people.

    The solution, obviously, is to create the biggest, healthiest risk pool possible: one nation, under single-payer, with liberty and low deductibles for all.

  8. To paraphrase Winston Churchill, “No one pretends that the Affordable Care Act is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that Obamacare is the worst form of Health Insurance except for all those other forms that have been proposed by the Republicans.”

  9. The GOP plan also hurts folks on employer-based coverage by allowing states to waive the ACA provisions that cap out-of-pocket costs and forbid lifetime limits on benefits. Even if New York doesn’t waive those ACA protections, the GOP plan would allow plans in New York to elect to adopt the standards from a state that has waived them.

    That works better than Obamacare how? And remember, “works better” means “insures more people at less cost with better coverage,” not “helps rich people.”

  10. Thanks for the giggles this morning as your subsequent posts only confirm the goofiness of the the original post. Wholly love your defense of Obamacare ends with a call to go to single payer- “If this take-over of health care didn’t work, let’s go with this one.”

    And BTW Porter, the GOP is voting today to make changes in Obamacare. Not done anything yet.

    Question: This really is the reality you live in? Really?

  11. Darin Larson

    Troy, I don’t find the prospect of a family member with a pre-existing condition from birth being unable to afford health insurance a situation with any levity. It could be life or death.

    After Republicans have undermined Obamacare at every opportunity, do they work to make the law better? No, they want to give a tax break to the rich and intentionally choose to drive tens of millions of people off of health insurance coverage.

    No Obamacare proponent ever said the law was perfect and changes wouldn’t be necessary as we saw how the law worked in the real world and especially after the courts weakened the law.

    Donald Trump was elected on a platform promising better healthcare at a cheaper cost with coverage for everyone that was covered by Obamacare. Now it appears that only one of those three promises is being met by the Republican plan. It will cost the country less, but that is no grand feat when you are covering 24 million less people. In typical Republican fashion, they are taking the savings from kicking people off of Obamacare and giving a tax break to the rich!

    When Trump said we would be sick of winning, apparently he was just talking to the rich. The rest of us will just be sick.

    Remember the outrage when Obama’s promise that you could keep your plan wasn’t strictly true? Where is the outrage when Trump’s promise that we would have better coverage at a cheaper cost is revealed to be a total lie?

    Troy, I truly cannot understand how a person that considers themselves to be a fine, upstanding Christian, such as yourself, can support people losing their health insurance, knowing it will be the difference between life and death for many people.

  12. Donald Pay

    Troy giggles as Republicans break their promise to repeal and replace Obamacare while making health care worse. This isn’t repeal and it isn’t replace. It’s backroom dealing, fiscal irresponsibility and medical malpractice. No one knows what’s in the bill. Keep giggling.

  13. Porter Lansing

    Reality is reality, Snowflake. I live in it. You hide under the bed from it.

  14. barry freed

    Are you willing to reveal if you have health insurance and who pays for it? If it comes from the Government or an employer as part of your pay package, is it taxed as income?

    My point is: We have a lot of people talking smack as they get $10K or more in FREE healthcare coverage every year. They don’t earn it, and they don’t hesitate to take it. Their employers deduct it from their income taxes, so we who pay taxes, are paying for this “free” healthcare.

    Question: If you are “earning” yours, rather than freeloading on our taxes, isn’t it income, and shouldn’t it then be taxed accordingly?

  15. Porter Lansing

    After reading the NYTimes chart showing what changes are being voted on today, my biggest takeaway is … if this slaughter of the people’s safety net is too much for your budget, move to a blue state. Nothing will change in Colorado or Minnesota or Cali or Oregon or Washington or Vermont or New York. (It might get better because blue states won’t have to send as much money to Washington to prop up the Republican states.) See for yourselves, folks ~

  16. So Darin, you didn’t like me laughing at you so you went for snowflake?

    Solving problems/challenges is hard work and requires the engagement of one’s mind and not sitting around in a pity party or claim to sanctimony while engaging in innuendo with regard to another’s interior life.

    The biggest mistake the Republicans did during the passage and right afterward is to underestimate the depth and breadth of the fiasco of Obamacare. We said it wouldn’t work and got chastised for being all you are accusing me of above. In case you don’t realize it, the opinion of people who are as deluded as you folks isn’t persuasive to me at any level except confirming of your distance from reality.

    Just because you have what you think are noble goals doesn’t mean you know how to do or design a birthday cake much less re-ordering 1/6 of the US economy.

  17. barry freed

    Republicans told the truth about there being Death Panels, they just lied about who would be handing out the death sentences.

    Don’t start celebrating Democrats, “I’m not a Republican” is not a successful campaign slogan.

  18. barry freed

    While you are laughing, are you taxpayer or leech who condemns with a mouth full of free blood?

  19. Troy,

    I’m sure you understand that healthcare is very complicated. And having a for-profit healthcare system is just one of the many issues. Why in the world does the CEO of a health insurance company make millions more than say…..a brain surgeon? heart surgeon? etc….

    But I digress. There are many reasons that health insurers bailed out of the exchanges. But the one HUGE one is the “risk corridors” that got pulled last year. That was one step where the GOP sabotaged the ACA. The other reason, like in states like ours, NOT expanding Medicaid played a huge role in insurers getting out of the exchange. Again, more sabotage.

    So when you say ACA wasn’t working? Well, it is and it was. That is, until the sabotage started occurring. We are the only industrialized nation that doesn’t have cradle to grave healthcare for its citizens. Oh boy! Make America Great Again!!! Woot! So much winning!!

    If you don’t believe me, google risk corridors and see….(Marco Rubio takes great credit in that sabotage!! )

  20. mike from iowa

    The vote this afternoon is to repeal and replace the ACA. A strong majority of Americans want ACA kept and fixed, but Troy’s lads in brown shirts apparently can’t read the polls.

    Pre-existing condition coverage is in the wingnut’s version, but so is charging higher premiums to elderly, sicker patients. Compassionate conservatism at its finest.

  21. Troy, how much do you pay in premiums and what is your deductible? Has it been really hard for you and your family b/c of rising premiums? What do you think about expanding Medicare for all?

  22. In reality, the republicans want to blame Obamacare all on the democrats when no one really ever mentions insurance companies that should bear most of the blame. Insurance providers just up and left the MN healthcare exchange b/c they weren’t making enough money. That’s it, nothing else, just profit driven greed.

  23. Troy, the reality is that we settled for a passable compromise measure in 2010 that improves on the status quo ante. Democrats like me want to move to a better, more comprehensive system. House Republicans want to move to a worse, more punishing system with 24 million fewer people covered and higher premiums for the people who need coverage the most.

    And you want contradiction? Listen to Oklahoma Rep. Tom Cole on NPR this morning citing as one of his talking points for backing the GOP plan the fact that hospitals in his state are stuck covering lots of uncompensated care because his state hasn’t adopted the ACA Medicaid expansion.

  24. Barry, trust me, I’m not celebrating until we have a caring, sane, competent public servant in the Oval Office again.

  25. Come on, Troy. Please don’t be shy, answer our questions.

  26. Cuts to Medicaid in the GOP bill will also cut services to special education students:

  27. mike from iowa

    Big party planned for Rose Garden if ACA repeal is successful.

    Chad Pergram


    Fleet of buses/vans now parked on Capitol plaza to prospectively bus GOPers to WH should health care bill pass
    12:35 PM – 4 May 2017

    I have never seen so many grown? men celebrate people’s misfortunes like wingnuts do. This has to be unhuman behavior. Wingnuts really are the scum of the earth.

  28. Troy’s bottom line is all that matters, he wants a tax break. This is what the whole anti ACA/Obamacare is all about. Troy and company could care less about healthcare because they can afford whatever comes their way. Special needs students are a problem that belongs to someone else certainly not a card carrying republican. The special needs for republicans are simple, cash.

  29. NOem just succeeded in the vote, now how will she react to the CBO scoring? Always good to hear her lies and now to hear them echoed by krebs.

  30. Roger Cornelius

    Now that the heartless bastards in congress have voted to replace Obamacare, Troy must be a happy camper as millions of people’s heath are put in jeopardy.
    As Darin Larson reminds us, “Donald Trump was elected on a platform promising better healthcare at a cheaper cost with coverage for everyone that was covered by Obamacare”.
    Remember Troy that Trump didn’t just lie to all Americans about making healthcare affordable, he lied to you.

  31. bearcreekbat

    Well, as the national Republican wrecking ball moves forward, both parties’ leaders need to assure that all South Dakotans are informed about the availability of the laws that obligate our counties and the State itself to pick up the tab for needed medical services.

    First and foremost is County Poor Relief. SDCL ch. 28-13 sets out the counties’ obligations to provide medical care to those who are without insurance or lack the personal resources to pay for lung and heart transplants, maternity complications, stroke and heart attack, kidney dialysis, broken bones, cancer, etc, etc, etc.

    In addition, the state has obligations to provide medical care and assistance pursuant to several statutes, including:

    SDCL ch 28-5 (Medical Assistance For The Aged);

    SDCL ch 28-6 (Medical Assistance To The Indigent);

    SDCL ch 28-06A (Assistance In Treatment Of Kidney Disease);

    SDCL ch 28-06B (Medical Care For Unborn Children); and

    SDCL ch 28-13A (Catastrophic County Poor Relief Fund).

    Meanwhile, perhaps Troy or someone can clarify how our state will fund the potential increased need for these services if the House bill becomes law?

  32. Troy, you do know that you are laughing your ass off at Kristi and the gang voting to make being a rape victim a pre-existing condition.

    Sometimes your worship of ideology overcomes any Christianity that you might imagine you have.

  33. happy camper

    Jenny says: Insurance providers just up and left the MN healthcare exchange b/c they weren’t making enough money.

    Correction, they were losing money.

    National Public Radio reports: The Blues reported a loss of $265 million on insurance operations from individual market plans in 2015. The insurer said claims for medical care far exceeded premium revenue for those plans.

    Question: If you had a job and they stopped paying you, how many days would you keep going?

  34. Darin Larson

    Troy can laugh at the thought of people standing up for access to proper healthcare, but by golly you best not laugh at Jeff Sessions. A woman was arrested and later convicted of disrupting Jeff Sessions’ confirmation hearing when she laughed at the statement made at the hearing that Jeff Sessions treated “all Americans equally.”

    No word on if a gaffaw would have been considered disruptive or if the soundless mime laugh would suffice as disruptive.

  35. Leave for a day and come back and nothing changes.

    Stupid and comedy are sometimes hard to distinguish.

  36. deep, troy. say, do you know grudz?

  37. Exactly Troy, we missed them both from you. Now that your back, we can start to giggle stupidly.

  38. mike from iowa

    Darin-what price did Sessions pay for perjuring himself at his confirmation hearing?

    What sentence did wingnuts pay for stealing a Scotus seat?

  39. I agree, leslie, that Troy’s not working very hard on this topic. Commenters have responded with details at which Troy simply sniffs derisively.

    Hap, Jenny, on making money, I’ll agree that the whole point of a corporation is to turn a profit and that there’s no sense in staying in business if the business doesn’t pay the bills. But that’s not an argument for repealing the Affordable Care Act and replacing it with the Republicans’ abomination. That’s a reason for joining Bernie Sanders and pushing for Medicare for Everyone.

    The Blues’ losses in Minnesota also don’t change the the fact that House GOP plan not only does not live up to but flatly contradicts Trump’s promise to provide better care at less cost to more people.

    We’re not funny and stupid, Troy. We’re maintaining that people and words matter.

  40. Darin Larson

    mfi– Believe it or not, I forgot about Sessions’ perjury moment. Thanks for the reminder. A lady laughs and is subject to jail time and Sessions perjures himself and he gets to be AG. That sounds about right for a Trump administration.

    Troy hasn’t responded with anything substantive because there is no substantive defense of the Republicans’ healthcare bill. If you get past the Trump lies that it will be better care at less cost to more people, it is simply taking healthcare away from regular folks to pay for tax cuts for the rich.

  41. happy camper

    Not sticking up for Trumpcare, and while I used to be for single payer, not any longer. Britain is in crisis, and Medicare really only survives because of private insurance. They contract with them to process claims and provide customer support and only pay 80% of what private insurance pays. One in 5 doctors say no to new Medicare patients in some areas of the country, and Obamacare reimbursement rates are also so low in some places the networks are very restrictive.

    We would be better off without group policies entirely which would create a robust individual market, a better way to get to Medicare For All than single payer. Right now if you have a pool of young working people your insurance is cheap, if you work with old sickies, it’s very high. Not fair in one way, but also difficult to legally eliminate group policies (1/3 are self-funded). But the risk would be spread much more evenly throughout the whole insured population. Unhealthy people would still cause healthy people to pay more, which also doesn’t seem fair. No easy answer.

    Who knew that healthcare could be so complicated?

    LONDON — Britain’s National Health Service is in crisis. Every day the country’s newspapers are filled with harrowing reports of overcrowding in hospitals, operations being cancelled, doctors and nurses struggling to cope, and accident and emergency units being unable to meet targets.

  42. CH,

    Just because you aren’t trying to be funny and stupid doesn’t make it so. At the end of the day, Obamacare is imploding, it is performing even worse than Republican predictions, Democrats have offered nary a tweak, and most on here saying to ignore your past healthcare fiasco and urging us to by into “Medicare for all.” It is either stupid or funny. You pick.

  43. barry freed

    So by your silence, we can assume you get your healthcare for free, and you pay no income tax on that charity to which you avail yourself, as vermin suck chicken eggs. When this country was formed, they had a name for self-serving, unpatriotic people like yourself: Tory.

    It is as though people who think they are rich, or fantasize of being rich, don’t see themselves as Americans. They live in America, but are above and better, more deserving than those who work and struggle to make a living in this country where our meager earnings are preyed upon by corporations and the government they own, at every step.

    TV commercial:
    “Grandpa, why do Republicans want you to die?”

  44. Darin Larson

    Ya, Troy, when Obamacare was passed everyone said, “Well, that’s it then. We will never need to address healthcare again. I’m really glad that’s over.”

    While Obamacare was a good start, that doesn’t mean we should not seek out better alternatives, such as Medicare for all.

    What is funny in a tragic way for our country is the Republicans who have railed against Obamacare for 8 years and held votes 66 times to repeal it. When handed control of the presidency and both houses of Congress, they reveal they have no plan for replacing it and after 3 months they come up with a plan that is worse than Obamacare.

    Your Republican President lied constantly that we would have better healthcare for more people at a cheaper cost. That is both funny and stupid. You don’t have to pick.

  45. happy camper

    But Troy, the law might have worked if Republicans would have worked with Democrats to improve it, which is all that might end up happening, some tweaking.

    Truth is, healthcare is NOT a right, it’s a service. To what extent does the whole assist the individual? If you have more money, why shouldn’t you get better care? There are always going to be ugly lines to draw somewhere when caring for sick babies that have little chance to survive, and end of life issues that cost the system huge dollars, and other high-risk procedures and caring for the indigent. Everyone should have a living will that’s not a death panel. Strong rhetoric and name calling doesn’t help the debate.

    Two dysfunctional parties and a dysfunctional Congress.

  46. mike from iowa

    All these years freaking wingnuts claimed they had a better plan to replace the ACA and it turned out to be taxcuts for the wealthy, which is all wingnuts have offered to fix America’s ills.

    If we just cut taxes enough for the wealthy everyone will be healthy. Blah,blah,blah!

  47. Darin: “Obamacare was a good start.” Hello, it is imploding. Soon there will be nobody providing coverage but we will be stuck with all the cost and boon toggle.

    Darin: “better alternative, such as Medicare for all.”

    Since your judgment on the first one is so bad, you think I will buy into your second.

    Too funny.

  48. mike from iowa

    Here is Troy and his wingnut buddies in action. Enjoy. I sure did.

    And thanks to Troy and friends you don’t even have to deny basic services to people in Spanish. Bwahahahahahahahahaha! Troy- you da man!

  49. mike from iowa

    Paul Waldman sez it all pretty good. For all of Obamacare’s faults it was debated for over a year and there were dozens of hearings on it. So much for being rammed through. I guess lying wingnuts redefined ramming through.

  50. That’s just an opinion that healthcare is not a right, Hap.
    You say “why shouldn’t you get better care?” In countries in Europe and Canada, citizens there can buy additional health insurance if that is their choice.
    Those healthcare systems work and people live longer and are less obese.

    I’m with Bernie – open up Medicare for All.

  51. NOem was being true to form when she voted to keep her own Obamacare in place. Obamacare is “failing” for everyone but congress. NOem loves her some black dude healthcare, so does Troy, the little rascal. Whenever you hear a republican bitch and moan about something for the other people, you can count on the fact that they are gonna get their cut and more.

  52. trump even told the Australian prime minister that Australia’s Medicare for all was much better than his new trumpcare. We are getting close to a failed state, hell, even North Korea is saying they have a better deal.

  53. Come on Troy. As a businessman, what do you about the likelihood of a recession next year if this gets through the Senate? Millions of people losing coverage is not exactly good for the economy.

  54. Troy is a typical tense republican. Dude, just relax, have a beer and debate us. We’re not bad people.

  55. Troy only knows one thing, the senate will never pass this crap. The market has not moved, so that tells the tale. Troy knows something else, it will be another week that no one talks about the russians and their takeover of the United States.

  56. Darin Larson

    Troy, your wingnut friends have been saying that Obamacare was going to implode for years. You guys said you had a plan to replace Obamacare. Trump said it would be better coverage for less money that would cover more people. All you guys do is lie!

    Here is a little reading for you:!

  57. Darin,

    You are cracking me up.

    1) That article is 6.5 months old. Since then a dozen major carriers have pulled out or will pull out of the Obamacare exchanges. I hope Obamacare wasn’t designed to have nobody in the exchanges. LOL

    2) Every day there is a growing number of Democrats in Congress admitting Obamacare is imploding/failing. They just don’t say it too loud because they get speared by those living in a fantasy.

    3) If you want to pretend and be deluded Obamacare is working, it is impossible having an intelligent conversation with someone who believes they are sitting on a unicorn.

  58. Darin Larson

    Troy your ilk has said Obamacare was going to fail in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 and now 2017. Now when we get there, please let me know. Its kind of like the rumors of Mark Twain’s death being greatly exaggerated, except it is repeated every year.

    Now, I admit you have done your best to kill the law with your SCOTUS challenges and your refusal to expand Medicaid and your limit on penalties for people that refuse to get health insurance and your refusal to make any changes to the law. Even with you guys trying to blow the law up this whole time, yet the law persists.

    I do love how you guys can’t even replace what you call an imploding system three and a half months into Trumps’ term after spending 7 years plotting its demise. What, the plan’s not ready after 7 years? Keep up the good work, Troy!

  59. Troy, you know you kind of remind me of Bill O’Reilly. You get tense so easily and don’t debate well with democrats. It also appears that you don’t like women since you’re not answering any of my questions. Just lighten up.
    We are good people. Cory makes sure there are no trolls on here.

  60. Good for you Troy, your side won! You clearly showed that hate of the black man supersedes the well being of the white man. Well, you boys won, now get to burying the dead. I see that chicken and tuna futures are going up in the marketplace. There is a fellow who has designed a 100 Euro casket so you all you boys need do now is find someone who will dig the holes for you. Could be one helluva market. There is money to be made by the clergy as well. They are now free to do political speech from the pulpit so why not do a little advertising as well maybe a two for one Tuesday deal, with taco’s. This could be big.

  61. happy, here ya go. The pro’s and con’s of the United Kingdom’s healthcare. Hickey has this in Scotland. As near as I can see, everyone one of the folks there have coverage, even the black folks. How about that!

  62. mike from iowa

    Republicans urging the young not to sign up for Obamacare-part of their massive efforts to make ACA and Obama failures.

  63. Darin Larson

    Thanks for the link, mfi. From your story:

    Americans for Prosperity will spend seven figures on television ads in at least 10 states and on radio ads in six states, with a message aimed at women ages 35-50, often the household decision-makers regarding health care. This national campaign is considered an educational effort to “explain to people the problems with Obamacare and really the pitfalls of the law,” said Fawson, citing higher premiums, loss of existing policies and reduced hours at work. The key, she said, is to not buy into any portion of the law.

    You have to wonder at the gall of the Koch Bros. spending millions discouraging people from signing up for Obamacare. Then Troy tells us that Obamacare is imploding from its own weight, as if Republicans haven’t done everything in their power to try to kill it. When you tell people not to sign up for healthcare because you want a political victory, you have forfeited the moral authority to govern, Troy.

  64. happy camper

    So, if you say healthcare is a right, and people are choosing not to get Obamacare (in lower income levels it would be ver low cost) should they be denied services? They decided not to sign up decisions have consequences, don’t they?

    After this bill fails the Senate, best we can hope Republicans “fix” Obamacare and take the credit. It’s just been politics all along their rallying cry to get back in power.

  65. What is puzzling to me is who is going to be buying insurance. If there is no subsidy help, who is going to be able to afford $25,000.00 to $30,000.00 a year for healthcare? Think that is a fake number? Add it up. Take a gent 60 years old and his bride, with two kids ages 20 and 18. Forget about health issues, just premium bucks across the board. Let’s say a 5 grand deductible with a family out of pocket of $13,500.00 How are they gonna do it with a subsidy? How much money do you have to make to afford insurance? So in addition to the $25,000.00 to $30,000.00 a year in premiums, if they get sick, another $13,500.00 for a total of $40,000.00 more or less. Does anyone believe that Avera or Sanford will lower their insurance prices? How about hospitals or doctor’s, think they will lower their charges? What about high risk pools? Boy like that is something that we have not tried in South Dakota in the past, miserable failure, ask Rounds/Daugaard how that all worked out.

    I know what they are gonna do. They are gonna be out of luck. So is the hospital and the doc’s that will have to provide treatment. Medical Bankruptcy was cut in half with the ACA/Obamacare. It will be back. Group health insurance will be hit as well, so there is no safety in anything regarding healthcare…unless you are an elected official like NOem or her mini me, krebs. When you get sick on the job now, you can get ACA/Obamacare without a problem. With Noemcare, you got pre existing conditions or you simply cannot be signed up. Get the casket shopping ready and find your special hymn, don’t linger, be thankful for the 2nd Amendment.

  66. mike from iowa

    You nailed it, Darin. Wingnuts have done everything possible to make ACA fail. Ryan withheld billions in funds for high risk pools last fall-claimed he couldn’t find the money in the budget- right before the election because he knew insurance companies would jack their rates.

    Usually when the government is undermined in such fashion someone gets tarred with the treason brush. Wingnuts are the new treason. They should be stood up against a wall and ….you know the rest. But it won’t happen while wingnuts control the gubmint and it won’t happen when Dems get control because they are too busy cleaning the manure left behind by gluttonous, greedy elephants with diarrhea.

    Too bad many Americans either refuse to see and acknowledge what wingnuts do to America or they are so frustrated by politics they don’t care anymore.

  67. Darin Larson

    The other question I want Troy to answer is why is it that the people are against Obamacare are the ones saying that it is imploding and they are going to fix it by getting rid of it. If it is imploding, why do Republicans have to do anything to get rid of it? If it is imploding, why does the CBO say the Republicans bill will provide health insurance for 24 million less Americans than Obamacare by 2026. If it is going to implode, shouldn’t the number of people covered by Obamacare fall off a cliff? Not according to the Congressional Budget Office.

    But then, Republicans don’t listen to the non-partisan CBO anymore than they listen to the middle class anymore. They passed their bill in the House without a CBO score. Frankly, my dear they don’t give a damn!

    Well, why would Republicans be in a hurry to get rid of Obamacare if it is going to implode on its own? Good question. The answer is because they want the savings from cutting Obamacare to apply to huge new tax cuts that will overwhelmingly favor the wealthy.

  68. mike from iowa

    Wingnuts and Drumpf have a problem. They are discovering bad stuff in the bill they just passed and are afraid the public will hold them accountable. Drumpf is afraid that people might lose insurance. Uh, I think that was a foregone conclusion before the vote was ever taken.

    All that is left is for wingnuts to blame Dems for making them vote on a bad bill and I have no doubt their base will believe them.

  69. Porter Lansing

    Shhhhhh …….. Darin. If Snowflakes ❄️ like Troy say it’s horrible and imploding just humor him. He’s used to just repeating things until he gets his way. Today Trump was compared to the Wizard behind the curtain. Like with Troy, there’s no there there.

  70. Darin,

    1) We want to fix what is imploding because instead of the few who might lose health insurance under this, it could adversely affect 50 million people. The Democrats sticking their heads in the sand and pretending nothing needs to be done is deriliction of duty at best.

    2) Your characterization of not waiting for the CBO score is wholly inaccurate and intellectually dishonest. First, CBO so missed the score on Obamacare because of their inability to dynamically score it, whatever analysis they give it could be as wrong as the first time. Second, and more important, they had a score on the proposal not approved a few weeks ago and the incremental changes are not so material. It’s comparable to have an estimate on building a house, making a change in a few items of immaterial and going ahead to build without a final estimate. Using this argument only shows how little you know about process and legislation.

  71. happy camper

    Compromise will be necessary, but don’t be disingenuous Troy. The Democrats knew it needed to be altered but could get no cooperation from the Republicans who only wanted to repeal. In the meantime, the American public has lost tremendous faith in government.

  72. Happy,

    Give me one example of a single elected Democrat who proposed working with the GOP to reform it and what they were willing to reform. Just one would be good.

  73. Porter Lansing

    Sorry, TroyFlake … This newest attempt to mislead is up there with Troy saying that pipelines are safer for the environment than trains and Nelson’s saying that the racist bigots from the Democratic Party in the 60’s didn’t leave and become the base of the Republican Party. It’s called ” to paralogize”. It means to draw conclusions that do not follow logically from a given set of assumptions. The CBO didn’t miss the score one bit on Obamacare. Once Republicans attained the majority and started to dissect Obamacare, like a demon drowning a small child, there wasn’t a CBO assessment of the ACA done again. You can’t change a law and then claim it didn’t meet predictions from before the change. Republican House members repealed Obamacare for one valid reason. They were deathly afraid of it’s popularity and ability to draw millennials to the Democratic Party.

  74. happy camper

    There may be none on record, because they knew it couldn’t be done with how many bills brought forward only to repeal. Any thinking person could see it was necessary.

  75. Porter Lansing

    Chuck Schumer said Democrats would be happy to help fix Obamacare once there was a promise not to then repeal it. Two lies in a row, Troy. Must be “Friday Afternoon Troy”, again.

  76. Porter Lansing

    WaPost … Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer said Sunday that Democrats are ready to work with President Trump to fix Obamacare if Republicans abandon their drive to repeal the law.

  77. happy camper

    But I think Troy’s point is if that was done before Republicans had both Congress and President. My guess they knew any preferential changes couldn’t proceed and everyone thought Hillary would win to continue to veto any radical change.

    These are two parties that just want to be in power. And I do agree with Porter Republicans could not afford politically, not what was best for people, to let Obamacare be popular shame on them. So for the sake of politics you don’t care for your own people that’s sick.

  78. Porter Lansing

    If so, HC his assumption is still a lie. Obamacare was proceeding better than the CBO prediction before Republicans controlled Congress. They started to choke the poor baby immediately after Obama claimed Dems had been “shellaced”, long before Trump.

  79. mike from iowa

    Here wingnuts go again wanting Dems to compromise with a determined enemy that wants only to destroy liberalism and the government. Wingnuts won’t compromise. It is their way or no way and they have shown the willingness to snipe and backstab the opposition at every turn.

    No compromise until the wingnuts are totally vanished!!!

  80. happy camper

    His assumption is not a lie. Yes, Republicans wanted it to fail, but when it was obvious that trouble was looming did they immediately put forth legislation to improve the law? Can we prove that, or are we just assuming they wanted to but realized it was futile. It is possible what Republicans said was true, if the law failed entirely, then it would be the right time to enact single payer. Politicians are conniving bastards.

  81. Porter Lansing

    Here’s one from 2015 where elected Dems were willing to tweak Obamacare. It’s just a Repub Talking Point, designed to mislead and misdirect from the truth. We were willing to tweak the fine for not buying insurance which would have led young males to buy insurance which would have stopped premium increases. Koch brothers spend tens of millions to convince this voting block not to buy insurance (also, to tell their kids not to eat school lunch because both were an Obama plot).

  82. Porter Lansing

    Here’s one from 2013 where Dems stated they were willing to help guide Obamacare to even better results.

  83. happy camper

    In my gut I agree with Porter although I don’t have the facts on hand. The law could have been improved now look at the disaster we are facing. Even Republicans are doubting their President, although we must admit he hasn’t done as poorly as anticipated. In a way he is kind of refreshing.

  84. mike from iowa

    Troy- here are the 4 Dems that did not sign letter to Drumpf offering to help fix the ACA back on March 29th.

    I believe it is possible for you to do the math and correctly guess one of the 44 Dem Senators that offered to help.

    he four senators in the Democratic Caucus whose names do not appear on the letter are Sens. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.), Heidi Heitkamp (D-N.D.), Jon Tester (D-Mont.) and Angus King (I-Maine). All face reelection in 2018 — the first three in states won by Trump.

  85. Porter Lansing

    I agree with Happy Camper. No one wants Hillary even if Trump is unfit.

  86. Porter Lansing

    Sorry. That statement opens up the pedantic response. I meant, the majority doesn’t want Hillary even though Trump is unfit.

  87. mike from iowa

    HC- what god fersaken universe are you inhabotong if you think Drumpf has done anything good?

    The bar for Obama was placed above the ceiling. For Drumpf it is below the basement. Just like for dumbass dubya.

  88. happy camper

    I didn’t say good, but the rhetic was we would have WW3 his first day in office. He doesn’t pander to other politicians, though he does to his working-class audience. He tries to speak their language to them, he isn’t dumb, don’t discount his intelligence. What did I just hear about him, that he used to go talk to the city workers all the time as a young man when his family was already very wealthy.

  89. mike from iowa

    You want to offer him a Pulitzer for that selflessness? I can imagine the kind of talk he engaged in as a spoiled brat.

  90. mike from iowa

    See when Obama was young he palled around with terrorists was the narrative I kept hearing.

  91. The Catholic Church and its many organizations is against the Repeal of Obamacare. It so goes against the Catholic church’s teaching on taking care of the poor. An estimated 24 million people losing healthcare coverage has a very likely probability of moving millions more people into poverty and near poverty.
    I would like republican Catholics to try to justify this and also to study up on its Catholic Social Teaching on putting the needs of the poor and vulnerable first.

  92. Porter Lansing

    Good one, Jenny. Also, why would Republicans pass a healthcare law that Republican states could opt out of? It’s as if they’re still fighting Obamacare and haven’t realized that they’re driving the pickup, now. If it’s such a good deal why try to undermine your own plan?

  93. happy camper

    Because to some extent Republicans are still about less government and local control. Look around in context within this country that ain’t all bad.

  94. Porter Lansing

    Big government is better because things we all use are cheaper when bought as a group. The bigger the group, the cheaper the cost.

  95. happy camper

    The self-funded groups are saving 12%. So let’s all us healthy people form our own group and save even more money, but oh yeah, that’s private health insurance who get to exclude. But you want to form a group, include all the sickies, supplement their care, no cost savings there. In fact mine would be $735 for Obamacare versus $440 for my pre-ACA plan.

  96. Porter Lansing

    Based on the pre ACA premium increase averaging, your $440 policy would now be $1150.

  97. happy camper

    But it isn’t, this is real world. My pre-ACA grandfathered plan is $440, so I get to keep it. A comparable Obamacare policy is $735 a month. So I’m keeping my old plan since I don’t get the subsidy. Get real that’s $300 a month. I try to run a tight ship around here.

  98. Porter Lansing

    You’re delusional. Even if you had a grandfathered plan, the price would increase at the same rate it always did. Before Obamacare 3 out of 4 voters wanted something done about out of control price increases.

  99. happy camper

    No, I know exactly what I pay for insurance each month, it’s $440. My broker looked up the ACA policy and I double checked it, it’s $725-$735 for comparable plan we only have Sandford and Avera left.

    This is a big difference in price, which is why Troy is right to some extent. The system is failing, Wellmark BCBS left South Dakota and Iowa individual markets. They were losing money in both states.

  100. Porter Lansing

    You’re trying to say that because health insurance is grossly overpriced with limited availability in SoDak that it’s that way across USA? In CO that $440 policy would be half that price through our state exchange. I have friends that pay about $250 a month for health insurance that can’t be canceled if you get cancer, MS, diabetes like policies that led to medical bankruptcy.

  101. Porter Lansing

    Things we all need are cheaper when purchased as a group. Ever shopped at Sam’s Club or Costco?

  102. happy camper

    No, I didn’t say that, but it would not be $250 at my age I checked the price in both Colorado and New Mexico they were comparable to SD. Your friends either get a subsidy or are 25 years old. I checked this out thoroughly because I was readying to get the hell out of this godforsaken place until this huge insurance uncertainly came about when Trump won and I felt stuck here just to know I would have health insurance.

  103. happy camper

    Porter, you’re not getting it. Pre-ACA plans had to go through underwriting, so some people get rejected, they only take the healthy people, so the plans are cheap. It’s about risk pools. If you have to accept every sick person, even if the numbers are large, the numbers include lots of sick people.

  104. Porter Lansing

    Like I don’t know? My late wife got breast cancer, her insurance company refused to renew her policy at the end of it’s yearly term, no other would sell her a policy and she died.

  105. Porter Lansing

    It wasn’t my intention to use her cancer as a trump card and I apologize. Troy’s not right about Obamacare falling apart, though. Obamacare hasn’t existed since Republicans started taking vital parts out of it. Risk corridors etc. What ‘s falling apart is what’s left of Obamacare. Until that point it was exceeding its predictions.

  106. Darin Larson

    For Troy on the question of whether Obamacare is “imploding”:

    “Ask the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, which concluded in its report on the Trump-Ryan replacement plan that the “non-group” market, the individual insurance market in which people sign up on state or federal exchanges, “would probably be stable in most areas under either current law or the legislation.” In other words, it can survive whether or not Republicans “repeal and replace” Obamacare, because even when premiums spike, as they did in 2016, in large part because of Republicans in Congress and 19 states actively sabotaging the law, those increases are offset by the federal subsidies people get under Obamacare, which rise as premiums rise, according to people’s incomes. In fact, of the new signups this year, 84 percent were eligible for subsidies which covered 73 percent of the price of their premiums.
    So while Republicans really want Obamacare to collapse, and indeed they’ve tried very hard to make it collapse so they could have an excuse to repeal it; the law is not, in fact, collapsing.”

    Troy talks about saving the healthcare insurance of 50 million people under Trumpcare when the CBO says that Obamacare will cover 24 million more Americans than Trumpcare. Who are you going to believe, the CBO or Troy?

  107. Darin Larson

    Porter, I would not apologize for sharing your personal experience. I thank you for it.

    I will say that it made me angry to be in a hospital last week having to think about what health care my daughter will have access to when she gets older and having a preexisting condition from birth.

  108. Porter Lansing

    I’m sad that very profitable insurance companies can now return to that paradigm, if a state chooses to opt out of covering those who need it most. It’s not really insurance at all if you can be refused to renew.

  109. Darin Larson

    It will probably be one more thing to drive people out of South Dakota.

  110. happy camper

    Darin, you’re getting out of that story, what you want to get out of it. I gave my actual premium amounts ACA plans are just not affordable. Your link references another unbalanced story, basically saying as healthy people avoid the plans and companies raise rates, it’s ok cause the government will pay for all people at the bottom. I’m not affluent $725-$735 for a premium like my pre-aca plan now $440 at shows how much risk is in these new pools. What about the people who don’t get subsidies they need affordable coverage. Joy Reid and Vox (Ezra Klein’s site) are both liberal with slanted opinions. It’s not sustainable.

    “Over the past year, the Affordable Care Act’s marketplaces for individual health insurance purchases have been rocked by a series of bad stories. A lot of insurers have raised premiums, and a lot of insurers have decided to stop participating in the program, which encourages those that remain to raise premiums. The higher premiums mean that for a certain number of more affluent and relatively healthy consumers, it makes financial sense to simply pay the penalty rather than purchase insurance. Removing relatively health consumers from the marketplace, in turn, encourages higher premiums.

    If that cycle were to simply continue unabated, the law really might implode. But CBO says that’s not what’s happening:

    Under current law, most subsidized enrollees purchasing health insurance coverage in the nongroup market are largely insulated from increases in premiums because their out-of-pocket payments for premiums are based on a percentage of their income; the government pays the difference. The subsidies to purchase coverage combined with the penalties paid by uninsured people stemming from the individual mandate are anticipated to cause sufficient demand for insurance by people with low health care expenditures for the market to be stable.
    Translating from wonk-ese, the subsidies offered to lower-income people under ACA are scaled both to income and to the local price of health insurance. Which means that for heavily subsidized customers, the higher premiums don’t drive people out of the marketplace. And there are enough young and healthy people who qualify for generous subsidies to ensure a stable long-term risk pool.

    The ACA’s most enthusiastic proponents had higher aspirations for the marketplaces than that. But the point is that this is still a stable and workable outcome. There is no implosion that people need rescuing from.”

  111. mike from iowa

    The only pre-existing condition that wingnuts and greedy insurance companies admire is being born filthy rich.

  112. barry freed

    Healthcare may not be a Right, but choosing my own provider and writing my own prescriptions that I can buy out of Canada is. That Right includes importing providers from Cuba to undercut prices.

    The insurance companies, drug companies, and hospitals, OWNED BY DOCTORS have a manufactured monopoly. Not because they offer something better, our healthcare was 38th in the World at last count, it is because elected officials have stocks in these blood sucking corporations and get bribes from them*.
    * some sanitize by calling them: campaign contributions

    Ban insurance and see how fast the actual Free Market adjusts the current price of $10 aspirins and $100 water pitchers one can buy at Walmart for $3. Ever wonder why an insurance company would pay $100 for a cheap, plastic water pitcher? They don’t, only those who are “uninsured” pay that price. The Hospital negotiates with itself, an insurance company subsidiary, to give themselves a 98% discount.

    Have you seen the new Aflac commercial? The Health Care death threat used to be implied, but now it’s up front: “Give us your Dad’s vintage Corvette that he left you… if you want to live.”

  113. Porter Lansing

    Happy Camper – What does this line mean? “I gave my actual premium amounts. ACA plans are just not affordable.” Once the ACA became law every insurance policy in USA became an ACA plan, with the new upgrades. That’s why Obama was called a liar when he said you could keep your plan. Every policy is renewed yearly. That’s why you or your boss has to sign a new policy each year whether it’s changed or not. In fact, no one can keep their policy past it’s term. You get a new one with an updated file at the insurance company.

  114. happy camper

    Yes, it’s a big problem that Sandford and Avera are the only ones left and that they only allow services at their facilities. Insurance companies are a necessary part of the checks and balances. I’m so lucky I kept my pre-ACA plan.

  115. Porter Lansing

    You didn’t keep your pre-ACA plan. You don’t understand insurance. I was the elected union official in charge or purchasing and qualifying health insurance plans for 500+ Teamsters. I know about health insurance. You kept a plan that was similar to your pre-ACA plan with the federally required upgrades mandated within Obamacare.

  116. happy camper

    No, some people did keep their old plans, like me. There are two types of pre-ACA plans: grandfathered and grandmothered. Grandfathered can be kept operating by the insurance company without any issues at their discretion. Grandmothered requires Congress to approve their continuance each year as they have done so far. I’m fortunate to have a grandfathered plan at BCBS, much cheaper and better than Sanford or Avera, even though BCBS has left the ACA individual market, they are keeping their old plans.

  117. Porter Lansing

    That’s wrong. Whoever told you that is just appeasing you. It’s against the law to sell any health insurance that doesn’t have the upgrades mandated in the Affordable Care Act. There were many upgrades. One is that if your wife gets breast cancer the policy can’t be refused to be renewed. Another one is that there can be no limits on payouts if you get cancer.
    I’m telling you the truth, Happy Camper.

  118. happy camper

    People with grandfathered and grandmothered plans already had them before the law, they’re not being sold now. Here’s a page on it:

    When the Affordable Care Act (ACA) was passed in 2010, there were some pre-2010 health plans that were allowed to remain in place without being ACA compliant. Most people are familiar with grandfathered plans, which don’t have to adhere to many ACA rules and can continue indefinitely as long as certain provisions aren’t changed. However, there are also “grandmothered” plans, which do have to comply with certain parts of the ACA and will eventually be phased out.

  119. Porter Lansing

    I stand corrected. That’s an anomaly. But, I have a question. Why do you choose to buy an insurance plan that can kick you off if you get really sick? Is that insurance at all? Aren’t you just paying for something that’s one sided to make BCBS money? Why buy insurance at all if it’s not really insurance. *Here’s an anaology. The guy across the street from me got a check from his insurance to fix hail damage on his roof. He didn’t fix the damage because it was slight. Last summer he had big hail damage and even though he’d been paying premiums every month the insurance company wouldn’t pay for the new damage because he didn’t fix the old damage. He was paying premiums for something that didn’t exist just like you’re doing.

  120. Porter Lansing

    Another question, Happy. Why do you think BCBS is willing to continue selling you that policy? Is it because they like you or is it because they’re selling you a product they have very little chance of having to make a payout on?

  121. Porter Lansing

    My last on this. (thanks for teaching me something I didn’t know … One of the reasons Obamacare was built was to stop companies from selling policies like yours.) What you’re buying is technically called “hospitalization insurance”. It covers your sickness but not your health.

  122. happy camper

    I know that insurance companies have done some terrible things, but they are not all the same. One of their old tricks would be to redesign a plan to end the current one that contained high-risk members, and then not accept the sick ones into the new plan. Parts of the ACA are very favorable, but I guess I have trust in Wellmark and they are still regulated by our state department of insurance.

    A long time ago I worked for Rocky Mountain Healthcare, which operated BCBS, and we paid faithfully. It was a non-profit, which personally I think all health companies should operate. We tried to become a for-profit company, failed in that change, so were taken over by Anthem and the whole environment changed, and it became all about the numbers.

    To your last question, I’m sure the pool that I am in is profitable, so they’ll keep it operating as long as it remains that way. Other people like me in the pool are going to keep it as long as it’s in our best interest. There may come a time they terminate the plan years from now, but when I look at the two options, what I’ve got, and the uncertainty and higher premiums of the ACA plans, it makes more sense to keep what I have.

    My old plan is quite rich in preventative care. Yearly screenings etc, but still, it’s up to the individual to eat right and take care of themselves.

  123. the question of the day for happy. What happens when the age of the pool you are in for the grandfathered and grandmothered plans hits 65? I tell you, your premiums will suddenly escalate to the point where it was when it first changed and you decided to keep what you have. In short, expect to be joining the rest…if Wellmark even keeps the plan as it goes into the death spiral. Ask you broker about how that all works, if he has been in the business before the ACA/Obamacare, they will tell you. Sorry. If you are on a group plan and think you are gonna come out of this unscathed, sober the hell up, ain’t gonna happen. On top of that, if you loose your job because of sickness or any reason and you have some simple thing that has happened or you are being treated for, sucks to be you. Everyone of us is in deep doo doo..except the congress critters who wrote this crap. No wonder NOem is smiling, no wonder krebs thinks it is cool, they are laughing at you and the rest of us.

  124. Jerry,

    Please explain why this is true: “On top of that, if you loose your job because of sickness or any reason and you have some simple thing that has happened or you are being treated for, sucks to be you.”

  125. happy camper

    My broker and customer service did not know if Blue Cross intended to keep the grandfathered plans, so out of frustration I wrote a letter to the CEO and shared a number of thoughts. One of them was my concern I might be in a deteriorating pool they would drop. I assumed he would pass my letter down to a qualified person to give me the answers, but to my surprise, he called me himself. He did some checking to let me know the status of my plan. We talked two or three times he assured me they intend to keep the plan active. As Jerry says, the pool will logically deteriorate over time, but at some point this mess will be over and behind us. In the meantime, it remains my best choice. I can take keep it even if I move out of state, which you can’t do with ACA plans, and with the ACA so uncertain, that’s important. This is all my specific situation, but absolutely, Congress and Trump have got to get their act together and get stability back in the individual marketplace as it has created havok and unnecessary worry.

  126. Troy, If you loose your job because you get thyroid cancer as an example, you would then qualify for COBRA for 18 months, then you would not be able to get insurance of any kind because of your pre-existing condition,

    Say that you currently type 2 diabetes that you are being treated for and you loose your job, you would then qualify for COBRA for 18 months, then you would not be able to get insurance because of your pre-existing condition.

    Pre ACA/Obamacare, if you had a list of many health issues from simple to complex, the insurance companies could deny coverage to you or simply waive the coverage for such common things as high blood pressure and anything that could be caused from it. Also, presently, group health insurance is also subsidized by the ACA/Obamacare so you can count on substantial rate increases. So just because you have group health insurance does not give you a free pass from the misery your gal NOem has brought forth. If a mother has had a C-Section, then all future pregnancy’s will not be covered. If she is preggers when she signs up, pre-existing condition. As happy says, if you live right and take care of yourself, no problem. If you are a week into term and you are completely unaware that you are pregnant, to bad, no soup for you.

    Now, if republican voters are blind enough to put NOem into the governor’s shoes, she can do even more damage for the benefit of her bosses. NOem’s campaign bumper sticker should read “Folks, it sucks to be you”. There, why just make it seem like it is singular when it really is all of us.

  127. Regarding “grandmothered plans” as happy notes there are two of these older plans, grandfathered and grandmothered. Grandmothered plans were written latter in the game and will sunset in December 2018 which will be even more misery and uncertainty for the small groups and individuals who currently are enrolled in them.

    Make no mistake, this decision by NOem is potentially a death sentence for many South Dakotans that have tried their level best to take care of themselves and to take their own responsibility of healthcare very seriously. They have scrimped and saved to pay the high premiums without any kind of outside help and yet, they are going to be kicked to the curb too so NOem and the rest of the wealthy can have tax breaks. Indeed, it sucks to be us. Will NOem and krebs be punished in the voting booth as a metaphor for the woodshed? Perhaps. Jackboot Jackley is not unscathed in this robbery either.

  128. In case any have forgotten why the ACA/Obamacare went into practice in the first place, here is a good read As noted, this was first published in 2009, guess what? History repeats itself. Sometimes, you just don’t know what ya got till its gone.

  129. Jerry,

    If the legislation just passed by the House becomes law, a person who has insurance, loses their job, utilizes COBRA and applies for new insurance has these protections:

    1) Insurance Companies must underwrite them based on generic information (age, gender, smoker or nonsmoker, etc.) and is PROHIBITED from pricing the policy based on a pre-existing condition.

    2) The insurance company MUST issue insurance to such a person who applies.

    Thus, your scenario is not true under the proposal passed by the House the other day.

    P.S. As constructed in the House bill, there is good actuarial basis for how this is structured. In summary and short, it is a trade of pre-existing conditions which becomes equalized by the “law of big numbers and goes like this.

    I’m covered under let’s say BCBS, develop a pre-existing condition, and I want/need to move to United Health. I able to move without regard to my pre-existing condition.

    On the flip side, you are covered under let’s say United Health, develop a pre-existing condition, and you want/need to move to BCBS. You are able to move without regard to your pre-existing condition.

  130. Porter Lansing

    What, Troy? Do you get up early just to devise ways to deceive and misdirect voters?
    The American Health Care Act stipulates that states can allow insurers to charge people with pre-existing conditions more for health insurance (which is banned under the ACA) if the states meet certain conditions, such as setting up high-risk insurance pools. Insurers still cannot deny people coverage outright, as was a common practice before the ACA’s passage, but they can hike up premiums to an unaffordable amount, effectively pricing people out of the market.
    In fact, premiums could reach as high as $25,700 per year for people in high-risk pools, according to a report from AARP. People who receive insurance through their employer would not be affected, unless they lost their job or moved to the individual insurance market for some other reason.

  131. Porter,

    You are correct there is a mechanism for an exception. My comments are to the general because Jerry’s comment was general and broad.

    But to your point, if a state is given an exception, the effect to the insured is the same.

    1) In one case, their pre-existing condition is neither a factor for underwriting or pricing.

    2) In the other case, they are part of a pool where the pre-existing condition “cost” is born by the pool while their general insurance cost is born by premium. To the insured, the effect is the same (not paying extra for pre-existing condition and it is not a reason for rejection of coverage).

    The difference is how the pre-existing condition is socialized.

  132. happy camper

    Congress will at some point have to compromise.

  133. 1. If pre-existing conditions are not a factor, then why are the new plans underwritten? We presently have just age and tobacco use, that is all. It does not matter what gender you are, the price is the same. In the old plans prior to the ACA/Obamacare, women paid more than men at the same age. Underwritten plans also meant that you could be denied coverage for health reasons, like diabetes or cancer. Why would BCBS want to insure you if you already had cancer and you are being treated for it? hint: That is why they dropped out of South Dakota and now you are gonna tell us they are coming back to take that back on? please, my leg is long enough. That is why the ACA/Obamacare was written in the first place to protect us all.

    2. That is how it is right now, so why then would you repeal and replace?

    Troy, the law of big numbers means what exactly? Basically it means a gamble.

    “The law of large numbers is sometimes referred to as the law of averages and generalized, mistakenly, to situations with too few trials or instances to illustrate the law of large numbers. This error in logic is known as the gambler’s fallacy”

    This is what the entire structure of NOem’s vote and your support really is, a gambler’s fallacy. I will tell you what Troy, you may want to wager you and your family’s future regarding the actuarial gamble of cancer and the amount of money you have in your checkbook to cover it, but not me for my kin. If you are so for the gambler’s fallacy, then why do you have health insurance in the first place?

    Something else as well, the “law of the big numbers” is the big number of money that you and the rest of the wealthy will get for this scam. If you think you can fool us into believing that the outright theft of healthcare is nothing more that a wealth windfall in your pocket, you are incorrect. What you are telling us is a blatant lie. This will be certain death for thousands more of our citizens.

  134. Porter Lansing

    Pre-existing conditions send you to a high risk pool which by it’s concept alone sets rates higher for those patients. High risk pools history is that sick people can’t afford them and end up without insurance and on the road to a shorter life.
    IN SHORT … this Republican plan takes a lot of money from the middle class and gives it to the super rich. Is that what you voted for? It’s exactly what your elected politicians just voted for.

  135. Troy, I know that you are not a new citizen to the state of South Dakota so you should know that South Dakota did have a pool. A very high deductible pool that cost a lot more than an ACA/Obamacare plan did. A friend of mine had one of these. He had plenty of cash so it was no big deal for him to shell out over 2 grand a month for coverage for just himself. Now, what about the poor schmuck that cannot afford to pay for the pool? How deep are you gonna dig is crypt?

    “The difference is how the pre-existing condition is socialized.” Damn, I thought I read that from Spicer instead of you Troy. Are you all getting talking points from the Spice Man now?

  136. Troy, stop and read what it is you are writing. On one hand you say that pre-existing conditions would not be applicable because you can simply go from BCBS to United Healthcare with no problem. Then you say that the pre-existing will be in a pool. The reason you are all over the map is because you are so sure that the black dude had it all wrong, you will twist yourself into agony.

  137. Jerry,

    #1a: “If pre-existing conditions are not a factor, then why are the new plans underwritten?” Under what was passed by the House, pre-existing conditions can’t be a factor for underwriting/approval or price of the policy. You can not be denied coverage. I was mistaken when I listed gender. Sorry for the confusion.

    #1b: ” Why would BCBS want to insure you if you already had cancer and you are being treated for it? hint: That is why they dropped out of South Dakota and now you are gonna tell us they are coming back to take that back on?” Easiest answer: if they are gone under Obamacare, nothing is lost then by trying something to bring them back, right?

    #2: “That is how it is right now, so why then would you repeal and replace?” This is where so many of you misread people like myself on this issue. Just because we opposed the mechanism of Obamacare did not mean we opposed providing BOTH portability and pre-existing coverage protections into the health insurance market. I for one support mechanisms of portability and pre-existence protections and always have.

  138. South Dakota, as well as the rest of the states and territories insurance laws would then have to be redone Troy. You state “In the other case, they are part of a pool where the pre-existing condition “cost” is born by the pool while their general insurance cost is born by premium. To the insured, the effect is the same (not paying extra for pre-existing condition and it is not a reason for rejection of coverage)” Presently, the insurance companies that operate in each state must show that they pay at least 80% of claims with premiums collected. BCBS was above that and left the state. So then, if an insurance company could not sustain the losses from claim, how then could a pool of sick people sustain itself without monthly rate increases?

    Before ACA/Obamacare, insurance companies could single you out for monthly rate increases by zip code. I knew of a husband and wife that were ranchers and got monthly rate increases. Those days are not forgotten by me. Also, before ACA/Obamacare, group insurance could raise your premiums to a maximum of 66 2/3 per cent each renewal and they could make changes in when your renewal periods were. Some individual plans simply sent you a letter and told you that they were not covering you anymore and canceled your coverage effective immediately.
    Insurance is a business that must make a profit. You simply cannot do that with sick people that are utilizing the insurance maybe daily. Also, the pools have a limit in how much they will cover you for. Most would only cover you for $500,000.00 like the one here in South Dakota.

    Happy’s grandfathered plan has a limit of 2 million. BCBS noted when they left South Dakota that they had a dozen or so that were hitting those numbers and that was also a factor on why they were leaving.

  139. Troy, here is what you said “Just because we opposed the mechanism of Obamacare did not mean we opposed providing BOTH portability and pre-existing coverage protections into the health insurance market. I for one support mechanisms of portability and pre-existence protections and always have.”

    If you do not have the mechanism for portability and pre-existing protection, then you do not have health insurance. Without subsidy assistance, it is not affordable. The only mechanism that makes insurance affordable is government assistance. If Marco Rubio would have left the funding for the Risk Corridor in place, BCBS as well as Dakotacare would have stayed in the market and there would have been more competition between 4 carriers instead of 2. I applaud you for the support of the mechanisms that make ACA/Obamacare great and am disappointed that the very thing that has saved so many businesses and families is now being scrapped for the benefit of tax breaks for the wealthy.

  140. happy camper

    It was 5 million max, they removed that years ago, no maximum on my grandfathered plan.

    Bottom line they need to keep the mandate. Everyone has to be enrolled to keep premiums manageable.

  141. You would know happy as it is your plan. The mandate is the only way to keep people enrolled as you also note, for that to be removed, there is no reason to have insurance if we are to believe what Troy has written. You can simply go through life and if you get cancer, simply sign up with no pre-existing conditions.

  142. Porter Lansing

    Analyze what Republicans need out of this to consider themselves successful. AHCA won’t float. All Repubs really need is to give health insurance regulation back to the states. Everything else about Obamacare will stand. The state exchanges will stand. The mandate will stand. The Medicaid expansion will stand. The subsidies to help lower middle class voters pay premiums will stand. The rule that companies have to provide insurance probably won’t but at full employment providing insurance will happen anyway. States that want to help their lower income middle class voters will pick up the slack because it make their states more attractive to growth. States that believe in small government won’t. That’s not what USA is about. What’s good for one should be offered to all. Every month we liberals in our blue states reach into our paychecks and send money to the Republican states who won’t pay their share of the freight. We don’t make demands for the aid we send but it would be better if you moocher states at least treat the lower end of the financial stick with some dignity. Do you really need to hold someone down to make yourself feel better?

  143. South Dakota will weep for what we once had and allowed a fraud like NOem to take. When our children and their children need healthcare to breathe correctly or just to live, we should remember that this group of racists wrote the epitaph. Get ready happy, cause your lifetime max is coming back, how sad is this?

  144. Here is an actual Republican governor from Ohio regarding the fraud pool coverage

    “Asked by CNN’s Jake Tapper about the high-risk pool plan, Kasich said it simply wouldn’t work.

    “This business of these [high]-risk pools, they are not funded. … Eight billion dollars is not enough to fund. It’s ridiculous,” he said, laughing. “And the fact is, states are not going to opt for that.”

    Kasich said that as governor he would not opt for the waiver from Obamacare’s pre-existing conditions provisions.

    “There would be no reason to move to a high-risk pool, because a high-risk pool is not funded,” he said. “So, I would just stay in the traditional program on the exchange.”

    He was also highly critical of the plan to unwind the Obamacare expansion, which brought coverage to millions of people in the 31 states that took advantage of it. Kasich wondered what would happen to all the people who wouldn’t have had coverage if not for the expansion.

    “In Medicaid, you are going to knock all these people off after 2020, which is just a few years away,” he said.”

    So there ya go. NOem wants to be governor of the state she just murdered in cold blood? Let us not fall for the joke. Just say NO to NOem and her mini me as well, krebs. Both are equal opportunity frauds.

  145. Porter Lansing

    Well said, Jerry. No South Dakotan should ever wonder why the millennials moved away and which political party is to blame.

  146. Mr. Lansing, I knew you are a young man who moved away but had no idea you are a millennial. Please tell all your friends or coworkers to not come to South Dakota. If they still intend to, please ask them to get a permit.

  147. happy camper

    My guess he’s pushing 59. Ante up Porter.

  148. happy camper

    Grutz 71, Jerry 65, Heidelberger 39, Troy 43

  149. Reasonable numbers, Mr. camper, but add another couple fistfuls to Mr. Jones and me. I always figured Mr. H is about 32 or 33 based on things, but he’s probably closer to your number.

  150. happy camper

    Republicans always seem older Heidelberger is half gray beard.

  151. Alas, more addition for jerry as well. I have seen many days for sure, but some of my brightest, outside of my family, have been when we Americans got ourselves out of a deep financial hole and then to have initiated healthcare for millions and millions of our fellow citizens. My darkest have been to see that those who put us in the hole are still running the country and not in jail. While those that have shouted down healthcare the loudest were nothing more than proving racism is the reason we are we are. With healthcare now, republicans will have once again put Americans into the same kind of financial abyss as they allowed prior to 2008 when the system had to be bailed out for corruption. The republican controlled senate is not going to do much but rubber stamp what they have been presented with. trump will sign it and then 99 percent of us gets to move back to the dark ages. The only time the wealthy will need us is when they have a body part the goes bad on them and they need a new one (should make a movie about that)…Damn, they already did.

  152. I wonder about Rapid City, Custer, Sturgis and other cities that are in the process of multi million dollar expansions. How will those be paid for? Avera and Sanford have also made sizable investments in the healthcare field that has helped drive the employment for the state. In each of these places, there has to be workers. These workers pay sales taxes as well as property tax and so on. What will happen when that engine of employment sputters with the loss of good jobs? Medicaid losses will hamper the employment in the small towns that house our elderly in nursing homes. With the losses there, it will bring even more hurt to main street. NOem and krebs have not thought this through and as usual, the citizens of South Dakota will again pay the brunt of their ignorance.

  153. Jerry regarding portability and preexisting conditions.: “Without subsidy assistance, it is not affordable.”

    Not true. it can’t be explained here but think of the concept of reinsurance mechanisms in the P&C market.

  154. Is anyone else ready to abandon the idea that the free market properly and comprehensively addresses the health care needs of all Americans?

  155. Porter Lansing

    Once again, Troy Jones’ analysis is one sided and invalid. You can’t compare P&C to health. If you file to many claims on your home or car insurance you’re rightly labeled “uninsurable”. Does Mr. Jones assert that if you get really sick and use your health insurance a lot you should be just kicked to the curb? Balderdash.

  156. Porter Lansing

    PS, Mr. Jones … What you’re calling for is commonly labeled a “death panel”.

  157. happy camper

    Quasi-free market, national controls, sell across state lines, economies of scale. My pre-ACA plan is much better than today’s offering.

    Make it law everyone must do end-of-life planning. The system spends an inordinate amount of money for so many people that don’t even want to be in that situation but they didn’t formally make their wishes known.

  158. Porter Lansing

    No it isn’t. You’re paying for insurance from a company that can end your policy at will, as they did to my late wife. As in most of the things you cling to, Happy, it’s your fear of change that drives your decisions … much to your detriment. Unfortunately, your mindset is the cause South Dakota’s failure to attract new business and growth from across USA.

  159. happy camper

    No, the ideologues want everything black and white can’t deal with gray both sides ready to jump in there take over and see it in their image. There’s not gonna be no simple solutions.

  160. Porter Lansing

    Camper … You’re just too contrary to have a meaningful back and forth with.

  161. happy camper

    Heidelberger wants to use this mess as an excuse for single payer. He always wants government everything my experience tells me they can’t be trusted any more than a corporation. The market has to be regulated, certain parameters, then competitive forces do it better than a lazy, power-grabbing, freedom-stealing government.

  162. happy, I hope they will allow you to keep you plan until you die, which is the way it used to be.

  163. Troy, trump is going to give us the healthcare you deserve.

  164. happy camper

    The system needs regulation, no doubt, but after this huge debacle, even if you want to blame Republicans entirely that’s fine, but they are a part of government that won’t be going away, so you still want to give even more authority to government? It should be crystal clear we can’t have faith in them.

  165. I like that happy, you do not have faith in government but you do have faith in the insurance company, a for profit insurance company. Those fellows are about to give you a wake up call sooner than you think. When the regulations of premium to claim is changed, you will be the first one bitching and moaning about what happened to you wonderful plan. You will want government to come in and protect you like they used to do.

  166. happy camper

    No, that’s not what I said, I don’t have faith in either government or corporations, but at the present time my current plan is more secure than an ACA plan. It’s not a permanent solution, but an ACA plan cannot be kept when I move out of state, and then the whole thing might have blown up because of the huge uncertainty which makes it very difficult for insurers to stay in the market. I want government to regulate with most of the controls in the ACA, but it needs Republican agreement as the back and forth is too damaging.

  167. Troy, Pre-existing condition exclusions

    Under the ACA, employers cannot impose a waiting period for coverage of a pre-existing condition. Prior to the ACA, individuals who became eligible for an employer plan—for example, once hired for a new job—might have to wait up to 12 months for the plan to cover pre-existing health conditions. You could “buy down” that waiting period with months of coverage under another plan, so long as it was the right kind of plan and you didn’t go without coverage for 63 days or more. But if you lost your job, couldn’t afford COBRA, went a few months without coverage and then were lucky enough to get another job with benefits, you might find the care you needed wasn’t covered under your plan for an entire year.

    If anyone thinks that the NOem/putin/trump repeal will not have any kind of negative effect on them, that person or persons needs to wake the hell up.

  168. happy camper

    You’re gonna have to learn to get along, deal with, and tolerate Republicans. You’re like little boys on the playground.

  169. This one was way too damn funny for me to not flag it, from Troy “Not true. it can’t be explained here but think of the concept of reinsurance mechanisms in the P&C market.”

    Not true, but it cannot be explained here? That is bar talk man. Then you drift to the Property and Casualty market, what a comparison. Apples and oranges? More like capers and watermelons.

    Here is a heads up to you Troy, reinsurance is exactly what health insurance is today. The general number is anything above $35,000.00 per claim, but that can be different. Here is one of the biggest

  170. We can go round and round like ferris wheel on this, but it still comes down to the facts that this new dog will not hunt. The fact is that the new plan, or whatever it is you want to call it, is just the way of moving billions in healthcare for those who need it most, to the pockets of the wealthy who need it the least.

    We will all see our friends and family negatively hit by this killer, while we watch the wealthy get larger yachts on our dime.

  171. When I was a kid on the playground, one thing that we really could not stand was when we heard a fib. republicans are not on the playground as legitimate players, they are liars.

  172. happy camper

    This passage from the HBR link may be key: “Fourth, and perhaps most important, public and private stakeholders must accelerate efforts to control the costs of health care services, which are the primary determinants of the cost of health insurance in all markets, including employer-sponsored, individual, and public. One reason that other countries find it easier to insure their entire populations is that their costs of care are half or less what ours are.

    The key to controlling health care costs in the United States is to implement aggressively the payment and delivery-system reforms that were included in the Affordable Care Act but rarely discussed in current debates. Chief among these reforms is holding providers of care accountable for costs and quality of services through value-based payments that reward clinicians and organizations that provide better care at lower costs. Fortunately, the American Health Care Act seems to leave many of these ACA provisions intact, though whether the new administration will enforce them as vigorously as the previous one remains unclear.”

  173. Happy, your comment about us being leery having faith in them (the government/GOP) made me think. In the health care debate, who CAN we have faith in? Seven years ago, the ACA was not an intrusion into a well-functioning heath care system. Nobody can seriously say that health care was fine before heavier government intrusion. That intrusion was an attempt to fix the problems from the free market. I get the GOP appeal of getting the government out of health care, but who fills in the vacuum?

  174. happy camper

    The Republicans need to come up with some reasonable improvements to the ACA, stop, and call themselves fantastic cause they need political victory. Without enough regulation one article Jerry cited said Association Policies (like Farmers Associations) would move in and keep their costs down by using Pre-X and exclude people, making it even harder to have profitable individual pools. The nation’s health and welfare is at stake, so it’s also not the time to insist on Single Payer even if that is the dream of the left. We need workable solutions and an electorate that will support those regardless of the party in power. If cost containment is the real issue, that’s where the debate should go.

  175. All we are now getting is gobbly gook like this from Tom Price that states an $800 billion dollar cut in Medicaid will not take anything away from Medicaid.

    “In an interview with CNN’s Jake Tapper, Price said those cuts would create “a system that would allow the states to tailor their Medicaid program to” the elderly, disabled, mothers and children, “thereby saving money, yes, but also making it so that they have a higher level of care, a higher quality of care than they currently do.”

    Tapper pressed Price to explain how the nearly-trillion dollar proposed cut wouldn’t discourage doctors from taking Medicaid, as reimbursement rates would be lower.

    Price said the massive cut would allow “greater flexibility, so that more resources could be put to the seniors and the disabled, and appropriate resources could be put to the healthy moms and kids in the Medicaid system.””

    NOem/krebs/putin/trump all support this gibberish. This is not governing, this is grand theft.

  176. bearcreekbat

    happy, when you suggest that

    The Republicans need to come up with some reasonable improvements to the ACA, stop, and call themselves fantastic cause they need political victory,

    doesn’t this suggestion overlook the apparent goal of Republicans involved?

    The Republicans seek significant tax reductions for wealthy donors, hoping to maintain and increase large campaign donations. Funding the ACA interferes with that over-riding goal.

    Can you think of any “reasonable improvements” to the ACA that would not require Republicans to abandon the goal of significant tax reductions?

  177. happy camper

    No, they’ll just have to come up with a way to save face. Their bill won’t go anywhere. A recent poll shows just 17% of Americans support it. Even some that voted for it admit it’s bad legislation. There are lots of moderate Republicans that like many elements of the ACA. They’ll have to tweak this and that, give it a new name, so they can say see, it took us to fix it. We’re great.

  178. To quell any doubt of the NOem/krebs/putin/ trump thievery, Here is the oracle of Omaha

    “In a Monday appearance on CNBC’s “Squawk Box,” the billionaire investor said that if there is “one clear-cut message” from the GOP health care bill, it is: “We are going to cut the hell out of taxes for the rich on investment income.”

    “It was huge what they did on cutting taxes for the rich in this,” he said of the American Health Care Act, which passed the House on Thursday and awaits discussion in the Senate.

    Buffett even got into specifics, explaining that his personal tax bill would be 17 percent lower under the GOP bill. That amounts to about $680,000 back in his own pocket, the Berkshire Hathaway chairman said.”

    The sooner republican just stop lying and admit what this is the sooner the senate can approve the final take on the theft. Rounds is ready and Thune, well he knows that he will get a bump as well so they will support it for sure.

  179. great discussion darin, jerry, porter, mfi, cory, jenny, daniel.

    this is “resist” troy, Happy. How you can laugh at us is only understood in a Sarah Palin’s or an Ann Coulter’s lense. millions of us dems, independents and progressives disagree vehemently with your party’s shenanegans these last 8 years. what a waste! Kochs’ success in trump’s election was a bare electoral victory (e.g. “if you change the vote in five counties, four in Florida, one in Michigan, we’d be having a totally opposite conversation right now.” Peter Elkind, special to ProPublica, May 11, 2017.)

    And, (“Why were Republican EPW(congressional Environment and Public Works Committee) members so hospitable to EPA chump Scott (“RAGA”) Pruitt?
    Like Pruitt, most of them are on the Koch gravy train and their campaign coffers are flush with fossil fuel industry cash. Nine of the 11 Republicans on the committee together received $368,000 in campaign contributions from Koch Industries over the last five years.)

    Troy, data 4 months old shows a tax cut averaging $7 million for each of the 400 highest-earning taxpayers, according to new calculations by the liberal Center on Budget and Policy Priorities using Internal Revenue Service data. That cut, the center estimated, would amount to $2.8 billion annually overall — or approximately the value of Obamacare subsidies for those with modest incomes in the 20 smallest states and the District of Columbia. 1.12.17

    Dems are not interested in power. we are overwhelmingly interested in what is right, moral and truthful. We are NOTHING like the republican party has morphed into: a true ALIEN life form using fear and ignorance to suck the life out of gentle people (the 99%).


    Troy, are you still comfortable with this talking point?

    …Pence: “America’s Obamacare nightmare is about to end.” Obama care nightmare?? Implosion of Obamacare??


    Finally, this just in: “Seema Verma, whom Trump picked to oversee the federal Medicare and Medicaid programs, stunned insurance industry officials by suggesting a bargain: The administration would fund [cost-sharing reductions seen as crucial for Obamacare markets’ stability] if insurers supported the House Republican bill to repeal the Affordable Care Act.”