Poverty and Children’s Health Correlate, Say Sanders and Stats

Senator Bernie Sanders made all sorts of good points in his speeches in Pine Ridge, Rapid City, and Sioux Falls yesterday (see full video below). Among them, the durable Democratic Presidential candidate said that poverty is not just an economic problem but an effective death sentence, corresponding to lower life expectancies in low-income areas.

Governing presents some data from the National Survey of Children’s Health that appears to fit the assertion that poverty and poorer health outcomes for children go hand in hand:

Screen Shot 2016-05-13 at 7.31.29

Nationwide, children’s health status and healthy weight correlates neatly with family income: lower income (measured relative to the Federal Poverty Level in these charts) correlates with more kids in fair or poor health, and higher family income means higher percentages of kids at healthy weight.

Interestingly, the numbers don’t correlate quite as neatly in South Dakota:

Screen Shot 2016-05-13 at 7.31.49

The bottom and top income brackets match the federal correlation, although it’s worth noting that we have much smaller percentages of kids in fair/poor health than the national average. Puzzlingly, the middle income categories in South Dakota deviate from the straight correlation.

174 Responses to Poverty and Children’s Health Correlate, Say Sanders and Stats

  1. Darin Larson

    This LA Times editorial endorses Hillary over Bernie and expresses my sentiments exactly:


    “From her early days as a children’s rights advocate to her role as an activist first lady in pressing for healthcare reform to her public service in the Senate and as secretary of State, Clinton has demonstrated a steely persistence and a keen intellect. She and Sanders agree on many broad goals, including expanding healthcare, regulating the financial sector and reducing America’s reliance on fossil fuels. But where Sanders offers audacious, utopian solutions, Clinton adopts a more incremental approach that has a better chance of success during a time of divided government and political dysfunction when negotiation and compromise will be more important than ever.”

    “The Vermont senator has made the race more substantive and has forced his opponent to address issues that might otherwise have gone undiscussed, but in the end he has offered little reason to believe that he would be able to enlist recalcitrant Republicans in Congress in accomplishing his priorities. Rather, he told the editorial board of the Los Angeles Times, he would say to Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell: ‘Hey, Mitch, look out the window. There’s a million young people out there now. And they’re following politics in a way they didn’t before. If you want to vote against this legislation, go for it. But you and some of your friends will not have your seats next election.’ If only it were that simple.”

    Los Angeles Times, May 13, 2016.

    Bernie operates in a world free of practical constraints. While he has been on the fringe shouting from the mountain tops about idealistic truisms, Clinton has been in the trenches fighting the good fight for practical, politically realistic accomplishments. Bernie is not running for dictator or emperor and he will be working with a Congress that is at least partially controlled by Republicans. His rage against the machine will quickly fall flat were he to be elected president when confronted with his lack of actual power to accomplish the ideals he espouses.

  2. Steve Sibson

    “But where Sanders offers audacious, utopian solutions”

    Darin, that is correct. He is so far removed from reality that he did not realize that his socialist solutions is the root cause of the poverty level at Pine Ridge. And he wants that for the rest of America?

  3. Steve Sibson

    “Clinton adopts a more incremental approach that has a better chance of success during a time of divided government”

    The good old Hegelian dialectic or what is mistaken as “progressive”. The “divided government” is an illusion created by propaganda spewed by the media. For example the media is calling Paul Ryan “conservative”. That is far from the truth. He represents the progressive “liberal” corporate capitalism, and so does Hillary. For those of use who study and use critical thinking understand that as Fabian socialism or communitarianism. It is communism lite by evolution, not revolution (which is Sander’s approach). Whether it is called capitalism, communism, or socialism, the collectivist end result is the same…centralization of power and wealth into the hands of a few.

  4. Please give Sen Sanders some credit for making the effort yesterday to travel to Pine Ridge. He did not need to do that – it was easily the smallest of his 3 rallies yesterday in SD, but arguably the most impactful. No, the impact will not be felt in delegates to the convention, but I was with him in Pine Ridge and felt the spirit of the people who came to the high school gym to hear him. Sanders’ visit was appreciated not only by those in that room, but also by the many people who stood by the roadside to wave at his motorcade. Sanders came to Pine Ridge to speak to people because he cares about their problems and he proved it when he not only spoke to them, but also listened to audience members address him and ask about problems and possible solutions.
    Voter participation is always low on our reservations, but spiked in 2008 when they supported Obama by a huge margin. I believe 2008 was about ‘hope and change.’ Hopes have faded as meaningful change has not arrived, but I think Sanders and his visit helped re-kindle some hope – even if he does not have a realistic chance to attain the nomination. I believe the fact that he came and listened to people speak from their hearts may yield something more than superdelegates (none of whom made the trip to Pine Ridge, by the way). He brought a least a day of optimism to a place woefully short on that commodity.

  5. Good Sense


    Hope and change eh? LOL

    Every year the Democrats promise better times if you vote for them. Obama, Sanders, Hillary promise they are fighting for you. Show me the positive changes that have happened in the black communities, the positive changes in the American Indian communities. Its not there.

  6. Who’s that guy introducing Sanders in the video?

    I think Sanders would drop accept the reality of the delegate count and drop out of the race if the FBI would wrap up its inordinately long investigation of Hillary Clinton. Bernie remains in the race only to be the one to pick up the pieces if Hillary is indicted. I don’t think she will be indicted, but that’s the only reason he’s still in the race as Plan B for the Democratic Party.

    This unending political investigation in an election year is what we get as a result of President Obama appointing a Republican who contributed to John McCain’s 2008 campaign and Mitt Romney’s 2012 campaign as Director of the FBI. Hillary left the position of Secretary of State in 2013 after the last election, and here we are over 3 years later with a GOP party FBI director still dragging his feet to the benefit of the GOP party.

    … Just kidding about the guy in the video. It’s our own Bernie. Hunhoff.

  7. mike from iowa

    Dems have barely controlled the agenda or purse strings since the black guy was elected to the WH. With right wing obstructionists barring the doors,how can you expect hope and change to happen?

    With right wing obstructionist around the country using every dirty,slimy trick in the book to prevent legal minority voters from voting, how can you expect hope and change.

    The root cause of ALL EVIL in America today and for the last nearly 50 years has been right wing obstructionism. And lies. And racism. And making the wealthy wealthier using all our resources for the 1%. And controlling women’s reproductive rights. And lying about what jeebus would do to make
    the 1% more exclusive.

  8. Please focus on the point – Sanders made the decision to visit Pine Ridge and it resulted in at least a ray of hope. He came and listened to real people address real problems. Don’t make it about your and your agenda – whatever it may be.

  9. Bernie comes to South Dakota to agreeable crowds of voters. Where is Clinton, oh yeah, he will come to South Dakota. Whatever Clinton is selling today, she will re-brand it tomorrow and then change on it again as the political wind blows. When Bill Clinton visits South Dakota it will blow harder, with either that finger or the thumb wagging in the turbulence. 8 years of their crap was plenty, all you have to do is look at the economy stupid.

  10. Fighting the good fight? Hardly, here is what I mean about the double speak of the Clinton machine. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/27/bernie-sanders-is-right-bill-clintons-welfare-law-doubled-extreme-poverty/

    Hillary Clinton is just repackaged Bill or bull. If you thought that 2008 and the meltdown was cool, wait until this team has another run at your Social Security and Medicare. Where the hell is Monica? you will ask. Nope, Bernie is in it to win it. He can beat Trump and save what is left of this democracy from the oligarchs.

  11. Good Sense, “Show me the positive changes that have happened in the black communities, the positive changes in the American Indian communities.”

    I have never fully understood the GOP obstructionist pride in putting a halt to needed reforms that are targeted at helping Americans for the sole sake of denying a “victory” to the President or the “opposition party.” It seems petty — at best.

  12. Good Sense


    A ray of hope????? It was sunbeams of hope when Obama was promising a unified country and all the other lofty promises he made.

    Nothing came of it in the black community nor the American Indian community.

    Bernie doesn’t give a fig about Pine Ridge and the plight they are in, other than a photo op.

  13. Good Sense


    the dems have had the purse strings for the majority of that past 50 years, show me what improvements have been made in the black community, ghetto housing???? Was that an improvement? How about food stamps and incentives for black women to be unwed mothers. Up from about 30% to 72%? Where are the improvements in the Indian community. Quit bitching about how bad repubs are and tell me what the dems have done for Pine Ridge.

  14. The GOP party has been in complete control of South Dakota government for the past 38 years. What have they done for Pine Ridge?

  15. bearcreekbat

    Jerry, that is an interesting link that got me thinking a great deal. According to the history of this 1990’s welfare reform that ended AFDC and put TANF in its place, TANF does not appear to be a Clinton iniative to reform welfare, and I didn’t see anything that said Hillary designed or supported this new law.

    Instead,it appears this was the third attempt by Republicans to end AFDC. It was done as part of Newt Gingrich’s Contract with America. Republicans drafted the new law and Rep. John Kasich introduced it in the House. Republicans controlled the House and the Senate. While Bill Clinton campaigned on a promise to reform welfare, he vetoed the first two Republican welfare reform bills. Apparently the changes Republican’s finally made in this bill, coupled with the political climate convinced Clinton to sign the bill.


    And given that Clinton vetoed two harsher Republican reforms, I am hard pressed to believe that either he or Hillary had some nefarious plot to harm the poor. As your article points out, over the years after Clinton the new law helped many folks get off of welfare, but hurt many others by reducing their benefits. Indeed, after 20 years and two different Presidents it seems a stretch to blame Hillary because neither Congress nor the Executive branches have made additional reforms that would have corrected whatever problems that have occurred under TANF.

  16. Good Sense


    You know that the rez are FEDERAL and sovereign nations. What have they done for THEMSELVES?

    Their bad decisions and the culture of dependency are big factors.

  17. All I can think of that the SDGOP has done is fight tribes when they want to build or expand casinos and bring lawsuits to pull sales tax revenue out of the reservations. Only negative things.

    No sense can’t think of anything positive the SDGOP has done for tribes either.

  18. bearcreekbat

    The reforms aimed at helping the poor that were Clinton initiatives, rather than Republican proposals, included increasing the Earned Income Tax Credit for low income working families in 1993, and proposing another increase in 2000.


  19. Of course No sense is running for president. It was just a few days ago that he argued that you can’t criticize a candidate unless you’re running also. Either he’s running for president or he’s a troll.

  20. Ror, I have no evidence on this, but I don’t think Bernie is playing indictment endgames. I really think he’s more interested in hanging onto the mic, spreading his message, rousing the public, and amassing as much leverage as possible to work as much of his platform as possible into the party platform and the general election as he can. he’s already pulled Clinton our way on KXL, Medicare for folks down to age 50, and other issues; why not keep pressing?

  21. Good Sense

    Details please on your allegations about GOP fighting against the tribes. What house bills and/or senate bills were introduced to stop building or expansion?

    Maybe you should tell us what the dems have done (you evidently cant think of anything positive) before you demand the repubs do anything.

    Arent the rez under Federal control? Bureau of Indian Affairs is a Federal agency. How many Indians work for the BIA in South Dakota?

  22. Sure, GS, thank goodness the people we invaded, conquered, and almost wiped out aren’t our problem. Thank goodness we can blame all their problems exclusively on them and expect them to solve things themselves while leaving our colonial rule entirely intact.

  23. Good Sense


    be a name caller all ya want, it wont shut me up like you want.

    You cant prove me wrong or show me what great things the dems have done so you resort to calling me a troll?????


  24. Good Sense


    I didn’t say they weren’t our problem, so I don’t have to try to defend myself from your bogus claim. The Indians have several big problems, alcoholism, suicide, unemployment. Plus the attitude of wanting to be segregated from ‘whitey’ and stay on the rez. That’s their choice and when making that choice they will never come out of the dependency attitude.

  25. Steve Sibson

    “it wont shut me up like you want”

    Cory will pull the plug on you if you don’t stop telling the truth they can’t handle.

  26. Good Sense

    I would like to think Cory has more integrity than that. But we will see.


  27. I didn’t call No Sense a troll. I called him a presidential candidate. A troll is someone who says one thing one day on a blog then a few days later gets caught going against what they said before. Does that definition hit a little close to home No Sense?

  28. mike from iowa

    Nothing came of it in the black community nor the American Indian community.(GS)

    After hundreds of years of wars and slavery and discrimination and racial injustice and being treated as less than human- you want automatic change over night. You sound exactly like a right wing nut job. They fight and have fought against all these changes, wanting to maintain the status quo and yet you blame Obama’s message and inspiration for whitey’s racism.

  29. mike from iowa

    No Sibby, it isn’t truth we can’t handle, it is the alternate universe version of peculiar wordspeak you post as proof you have knowledge no one else is privy to.

    Master is never wrong. Master has saintly patience. Master has clearly defined acceptable mannerisms expected of all who seek wisdom here. You have been unsuccessful in attempts to lure away the masses so you wish to foul the nest for the masses.

  30. Good Sense


    how tolerant of some here

    troll? no sense? right wing nut?

    all that shows is an inability to rationally discuss issues

  31. Douglas Wiken

    Indian culture is a dead-end road.

  32. mike from iowa

    Lat’s rationalize-GS.

    Which party of rwnj refuses to vote for raising the minimum wage?

    Which rwnj named Paul Ryan tried to cut 5 billion from social programs and give 4.3 billion to the 1% in tax cuts?

    Which rwnj party wants to cut education funding and school lunch programs?

    Which rwnj party denies minorities equal rights and works incessantly to prevent them from legally voting?

    Which rwnj party consistently hands billions of dollars to the wealthy at the expense of the poor and middle class?

    Which rwnj party wastes tens of millions of dollars pursuing fictitious criminal charges against Dems?

    Which rwnj party isn’t happy unless they have American soldiers overseas dying for no reason at all?

    Which rwnj puts profit over people everytime they pass legislation?

    Which party of rwnj believe guns have more rights than minorities?

    Which party of rwnj don’t mind police shooting unarmed Blacks?

    Which party of rwnj is concerned only with the welfare of the koch bros class of citizens?

    Which party of rwnj demand babies be born so they can know hunger pains and the ravages of illness because wingnuts neither want to feed them or insure them?

    Which party of rwnj are attuned to foreign corporations taking land from American citizens for foreign profitability?

    Which party of rwnj want to shove their religion into every American’s life while denying religious rights to non-kristians?

    I can go on forever, Good Sense.

  33. Roger Cornelius

    Indian lands were and have been invaded by white men for decades if not centuries and yet they come on to our lands and tell us that our traditions and cultures are failures and it is foolhardy to maintain them. Talk about the arrogance of such thinking.
    republicans love to point at reservation poverty as the failure of socialism, that is hardly true.
    Socialism in many countries, as Bernie has pointed out, has been successful. What Indian reservation have and have had is a massive history of fiscal abuse, bureaucracy,and theft.
    There are offices that have offices to supervise them from Washington, D.C. to the Aberdeen Area offices of the Bureau of Indians Affairs and Indian Health Services. What is left for the Indian is begrudgingly sent to the reservation where it is met by local bureaucrats also saying no.
    Billions of dollars over the years have been allocated by congress to provide services to Indians and yet it never gets to the level it is meant to.
    I can’t assign blame to President Obama, Hillary Clinton or George Bush for failures in Indian country. The problems in Indian country have been there for generations.
    When tribes aren’t fighting the federal government for money there are those like Jason Galanis waiting in the wings to fleece tribal governments and tribal members with their predatory lending and other scams.
    Many reservation residents are caught in a vicious circle of governance, on one hand they have the failures and system of the IRA (Indian Reorganization Act) to which they are beholden to what services they receive and the traditionalist that flatly reject the tribal government as an arm of the federal government out to destroy them, it appears that by what is happening in Indian country the traditionalist are being proven right.
    I’m not optimistic about Bernie changing a damn thing, the history of systemic failure is here to stay, I often think that is the way the government likes it

  34. bcb, you would have to argue that point with WaPo. This was their report on it. Look, I get it that you do not want to even think that the Clinton’s would do something so Un-Democratic, but they did and will continue to do so if put in the drivers seat again. How much pain can Native Children, Native American children, African American go through while they watch it all burn? http://www.thenation.com/article/why-it-matters-that-hillary-clinton-championed-welfare-reform/ These are the facts as written and lived by those whose voices have been stifled. The only reason Clinton gets the Black vote is because Clinton’s know the donor class that will keep putting penny’s in the coffers to window dress it all.

  35. “The Clintons have championed welfare reform for over 20 years—even as study after study has shown that it has severely harmed poor families.” from that link

  36. Here is this about Clinton’s policies with welfare reform and the suffering of children’s health. Here is a road map of the ugly past and why it matters today, https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/letter-to-hillary-clinton-lets-talk-about-poverty

  37. bcb, Here is what we are also seeing in South Dakota, keep in mind that the list of extreme poverty is not limited to the Native American populace of the state, we are equal opportunity in our abandonment of the weakest of us all. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/07/clinton-era-welfare-reforms-american-poor-bernie-sanders Bernie Sanders has some of the answers to this issue and that is work. There is much to be done, all one has to do is look around your own communities. Economic development is not about creating a factory that employs 300 people, it is about improving the communities that we live in to include rural areas. Economic development also increases the tax base for cities, counties and the state. With that kind of thinking and doing, we could eliminate the temptation of the corrupt state we now find ourselves living in, to go lawless.

  38. Listen to how this guy relates to the ordinary folks he speaks with at Mt. Rushmore. The guy has the energy and the vision to change this country and to make it even better for our children and theirs. Yes, poverty and children’s health can be fixed with the right leadership, here he is with 4 other presidents, in it to win it for the people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRRNnIfoEQY

  39. Robin Friday

    Curt, I agree completely. It’s strange to me that people don’t see the bigger meaning in Sen. Sanders’ visit to Pine Ridge. No, it won’t get him any delegates, but maybe once again it’s meaningful that he chose to speak face-to-face and listen to Native American people. It shows once again, that caring about others means “being there”. I’m not speaking for either candidate, but it’s easy to see who cares, just by being there. It won’t get him the votes he needs, but it does seem that we could all see the bigger meaning. Seems the news media, like most SDans, completely ignored a very meaningful visit. Well said.

  40. Douglas Wiken

    Hillary and Trump are all about “I” and “ME”. Sanders is about “we”…whether that is those of white privilege or Native American or whatever. He provides hope without expressly saying that.

  41. With Bernie, you don’t get the same meme as you do with the others running for president. Think of the 130 billion with a B that could go into financing much needed infrastructure programs on and off the reservation, on and out of the cities, on and out of the counties. Here are two abusers of our lax system that allows corruption and theft of what is rightfully the American taxpayers money. Europe has come out and told America that they must clean up their act regarding the blatant hiding of funds by private citizens or soon to be public servants. http://www.thenation.com/article/when-it-comes-to-taxes-donald-trump-and-hillary-clinton-have-one-thing-in-common/

    Think of how may children this money could house and provide proper nourishment to, think of how many jobs this could bring to an economy that is not accurately providing statistics to on our dire economic situation. 60% and above Native unemployed, bogus numbers on actual employment stats nationally. Bernie would cure what ails us. The other two and their cronies, are the ails.

  42. gs- “wanting to be segregated from ‘whitey’ and stay on the rez. That’s their choice “…

    “prove me wrong or show me what great things the dems have done “…

    ” bad decisions and the culture of dependency are big factors”…

    “stop bitching”.

    i’ll get back to u on this. you are getting paid for this, right?

  43. good sense

    mike from iowa

    you said ‘lats rationalize’

    and then you go irrational on me

    sorry i don’t play internet falsies with irrational people

  44. mike from iowa

    GS-you got me that time. I am deeply and mortally wounded and I’ll prolly die because you shamed me for misspelling let’s. Gawd,you’re cruel. How can you live with yourself?

    So misspelling let’s makes me irrational? Get down with your badself. BTU-what did I say that was false?

  45. Adding to the meaning Curt and Robin see in Bernie’s visit is the fact that he went to Pine Ridge first.

  46. I listened to a report on the positive correlation between prenatal welfare and child health on Minnesota Public Radio while driving to the rallying. It works.

  47. bearcreekbat

    Jerry, your link to Fred Block’s letter to Clinton seems spot on. Block’s explanation of the history behind the 1990’s substitution of TANF for AFDC makes it clear that without Clinton’s efforts Republicans would have done even greater damage to the poor’s safety net.

    The other linked article that attempts to make the reform that actually took place to be Hillary’s fault for rounding up votes seems odd since Republicans had the majority in the House and Senate and destroying welfare was a key part of their Contract with America. I can’t see how Republicans needed any Democratic votes or Hillary’s help in passing their TANF legislation. In any event, the purported quote from her Living History memoir might support that idea, but I wonder how it might read in context.

    The article criticizing the Clinton Foundation for accepting donations from tax dodgers reveals an important point and omits a more important point.

    It reveals that Hillary argued:

    “We need to go after a company like Johnson Controls that is trying to avoid paying taxes after all of us bailed it out by pretending to sell itself in a so-called inversion in Europe.” It evidently didn’t matter to her that the same automotive parts company set to merge with Tyco International (based in Ireland to dodge taxes) had donated money to the Clinton Foundation charity as recently as December 2015.”

    This explicitly contradicts the implied quid pro quo theory where Hillary was supposed to do favors for companies that donated to the Foundation.

    The Foundation article also omits mentioning what the Clinton Foundation does with the donations it receives. As best I can tell the Foundation is a philanthropic organization that uses donations to alleviate poverty, hunger, environmental damage, etc. This information seems inconsistent with the article’s theme that Hillary and Trump are no different.

    I like Bernie and Hillary. If Hillary is nominated we should definitely support her given the alternative of a Donald Trump presidency with a Republican congress. Can you imagine the harm and pain that administration will try to inflict on the weakest among us?

  48. You may need to look closer at the Foundation to see where the money is coming from and why. That is where the FBI is looking.

  49. I only try to wrap my head around the fact that both leading contenders for the highest office in the land come from the wealthiest 0.003% households (4,000 families out of 300,000,000). How can they relate to children’s health and poverty when they both have someone wipe their fannies after using a gold plated stool? When will the American people understand that the extreme wealth that our appointed officials have is not democracy, it is as former President Jimmy Carter called, an oligarchy.

  50. Here is how an oligarchy works. In the republican camp, you see the RNC oligarchy do its best to rid itself of Trump. They worked with Bush with millions, they worked with Little Marco (I really liked that one) and they worked with Lying Cruz by holding their noses, that is still not over, but looks like it is.

    The DNC is equal in its crooked back alley treatment against their chosen one. They limit debates and stifle voices, here is the latest from the DNC http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/dem-primaries/279603-dnc-head-denies-sanderss-claim-of-convention-favoritism

    Sanders is an Independent running a race as a Democrat, that he has caucused with and always supported. He supports employment of the people, he is clearly in tune with the needs of the poor and the forgotten, the veterans to name some. He also is in tune with trade agreements that have weakened the working poor and the middle class as well only to benefit the wealth yet again. In short, Sanders is a true Democrat in all its meaning. Sanders also scares the hell out of the oligarchs. Trump already is one, so he is part of the problem. The real issue is who can beat him, the answer is Sanders.

  51. Whiner from Iowa, pull on your big boy pants and quit blaming the GOP for your pathetic life! I get so tired of you whining about minorities being blocked from voting. Nobody is being blocked anywhere. Get the required documents. I am guessing they find a way to get their food stamps and heating assistance. If voting is important, make the effort to be ready to vote. GOP obstructionists! Have you ever thought that more than half the country is not interested in your socialist “progressive views” and thank God their are people still fighting to preserve what shred of decency we have left. Now go ahead and go on some long rant that you think makes you look smart among your left wing friends on here. You continually bash corporations who employ most of our nation. You continually bash the rich who pay 90% of our countries bills. If you had a life and a decent job and paid some taxes yourself, you maybe would understand that taking our money to pay your bills is not the American way!

  52. Stum: “I get so tired of you whining about minorities being blocked from voting. Nobody is being blocked anywhere. Get the required documents. I am guessing they find a way to get their food stamps and heating assistance.”

    Thanks for making it clear for all what you really think of minorities. Apparently they are all a bunch of sponges living off of food stamps and welfare. Classy.

    At least you finally have a Presidential candidate who openly shares your views. Should make your decision easy in November.

  53. Stub, the majority of the corporations in this country are responsible for paying most of their employees poverty wages.
    The Wal Marts, Targets, Citibanks, Wells Fargos and so on pay crap so get over your love affair with Corporate America.
    Costco I have a lot more respect for here in MN they start their employees at 17 bucks an hour and have affordable health insurance, so I know these slave wage corporations could pay their employees a living wage but they choose not to.

  54. Jenny, you have been in Walmart or Target lately??? Have you seen most of the employees?? For many of them to have a job that pays is a benefit. Get an education! Stay in school, try hard. Try keep your hair a normal color, your piercings and tattoos to a minimum. I know your “progressives” are into let everyone be who they want, but then don’t whine about what they are getting paid when many have chosen that exact path!! Again, I don’t think being a checkout or a stock person was ever meant to be a career and the main bread winning job for a household. I guess if they are, I missed those presentations at high school “career” day!

  55. Craig, then why can’t they get the proper voting documents?????? If the successful minorities are not able to get their paperwork done, what is the problem? You tell me why it is so tough for only minorities!

  56. The GOP don’t understand nor do they care what a living wage would mean to the slave laborers of the country.

    Stub, many of Wal Mart’s employees are on food stamps – you know that horrible govt handout that you despise. Does this not bother you that the richest corporation in the world pays so pitifully that employees have to go this route? If it doesn’t bother you then fine, but just don’t slam the employees, dude. I know you would rather have these people working than staying home collecting welfare.

  57. stumfarley-your simplistic solutions belie your misunderstanding of human behavior. it’s too complicated so you regurgitate platitudes: pull yourself up by the bootstraps. get in line. don’t make waves. be like I want your to be.

    the root of social ties lies in their opposite — loneliness. According to theory, the pain of being alone motivates us to seek the safety of companionship, which in turn benefits the species by encouraging group cooperation and protection. Loneliness persists because it provides an essential evolutionary benefit for social animals. Like thirst, hunger or pain, loneliness is an aversive state that animals seek to resolve, improving their long-term survival.

    we are motivated by brain chemicals-endorphins.

  58. You are missing the point. These were never meant to be jobs that support a household. They are part time jobs, second jobs or additional income jobs. We can not turn every job into a career and pay high wages and excellent benefits.

    Here is how you progressives have changed. Progressive in the 60’s, let’s put a man on the moon. Progressives now, let’s put a man in a woman’s bathroom! Can you see the fundamental change and wonder why our country is going down the tubes!

  59. One of the Most Racially Divided States in the Country Just Passed a New Voter-ID Bill


  60. leslie, be like I want you to be???? How about try be like what works. Why is that so hard for liberals to figure out. There is a way in this country to be successful and by that I don’t mean rich. I am far from rich, but I am satisfied and not jealous of those who are that much more successful. There is a game plan that works, try it people!

  61. I said: ” be like I want your to be.”

    stu: “you progressives”. “many have chosen that exact path!! Again, I don’t think being a checkout or a stock person was ever meant to be a career and the main bread winning job for a household. I guess if they are, I missed those presentations at high school “career” day!”

    “never meant to be jobs that support a household. They are part time jobs, second jobs or additional income jobs. We can not turn every job into a career and pay high wages and excellent benefits.”

    gee stu. maybe someone other than you had a different experience. maybe they didn’t get to high school. maybe they did not “chose” that gilded path you were on by some fortuitous event in your gilded life.

    your solution. pass laws that exclude anyone but you.

  62. stu: “Why is that so hard for liberals to figure out. There is a way in this country to be successful”

    360,000,000 people in the usa. most are not successful. you think they chose this. you support laws that exclude their vote.

    why don’t you understand this?

  63. Everything You Need to Know About Voter Suppression


    careful stumcfarlan, these people in the 5 min vid don’t look or sound like you. tattoos, skin color, accent, grammar. they obviously missed high school career day. stupid progressives, liberals, those people different from you.

  64. Gilded??? Having a father disabled in Korea and a mother that worked in a factory and at a local café. Were we destitute, no way, were we rich, no way. Student loans to get through college, along with part time jobs that I didn’t expect to get paid career wages. There are paths to successful life. Quit lumping the much smaller number of people that had a very unfortunate childhood with the millions that chose the wrong path!!

    What laws exclude anyone’s vote? Name one law that discriminates against any voters. Do these laws allow white people to vote one way and minorities another??? White people show up and vote, but minorities need to drive 100 miles to vote and must have 12 different forms of ID, are there really laws like that???

  65. stu: “why can’t they get the proper voting documents?????? If the successful minorities are not able to get their paperwork done, what is the problem? ”

    now you know. I assume you accept this explanation. if you still don’t understand I am sure I can get you more of thousands of examples of why people other than you may get excluded from voting because they have not complied with the latest republican law to exclude them. these fights have already been fought and won”20, 30, 40 years ago” as the person in the video said. why can’t you conservatives understand this? cause you want to win. by any means available other than by policies that serve the vast majority.

  66. Wait a second. People did not take the time to find out where their polling place was located and that is discrimination???

    Being required to prove who you are is discrimination??

    The back bone of Democracy is voting and you want that to be a joke? You don’t want to keep it sacred? If voting is so important, make it a priority, find out where to vote, what you need and how to vote and don’t wait until that day. This is a an important process, so treat it that way!

  67. Leslie, the conservatives really don’t think America’s poorest workers deserve a living wage. A living wage is supposedly a ‘benefit’ according to what Stub says.
    Gee, how sad, that that’s too much to ask for in the richest country in the world.

  68. ” millions that chose the wrong path!!”

    get off it preacher. spend some open minded time on these cites or find your own. stop standing in the check out line grumbling about some one ahead of you that is different.

    gilded means you got to attend a school that had a career day. were your parents, your extended family there for you? was there death or illness in the family? were there drive-by shooters in the “neighborhood”? choice has nothing to do with millions of voters circumstances that are worse than yours that are being excluded so your candidate can win the election.

  69. bearcreekbat

    I think Bernie had it right when at his Rapid City rally he said: “Anyone willing to work 40 hours a week at a job deserves a living wage.” [might not be an exact quote, but you get the idea].

    In the world of folks that share the ideas set forth in Stu’s comments, we need to use public resources to enable wealthy company owners to pay people who work 40 or more hours a week less than a living wage. Apparently such owners lack the personal responsibility needed to run a successful business without relying on the government to supplement their employees inadequate wages. So in Stu’s world, the solution is to use public resources to help the owners maximize company profit, increase the owners’ wealth, and maintain the company’s underpaid labor supply.

    Why public funds should be used to subsidize wealthy owners as a matter of public policy remains a mystery. Go figure.

  70. mike from iowa

    Stumpy sez- ? You tell me why it is so tough for only minorities!

    Because minorities are deliberately being targeted for discrimination by right wing nut jobs. Minorities are east targets, they aren’t particularly well represented, easily intimidated with threats of immigration violations and mostly because they mostly vote for Dems because wingnuts constantly and continuously insult them and their heritage.

  71. Stop it! Trying to take the high road, like you care about voters rights. Don’t tell me the Democratic party doesn’t have ulterior motives. Make it so people can vote anywhere, anytime, legal or not, because they know most of these people are voting Democrat. Talk about me on my high horse, nice try!

    You guys want everyone to make $15 to $20 an hour, but how much do you want to pay for groceries, a burger or other things that you buy?? Maybe every business should be non profit!

  72. mike from iowa

    Didn’t you know Medicaid and food stamps were designed specifically for WalMart and Micky Ds express use to drive up korporate profits and drive down employee wages and benefits.

  73. stu: “like you care about voters rights.”

    you are incapable of an intelligent response.

  74. mike from iowa

    Dems have to get every available and legal voter to vote to overcome dirty wingnut gerrymandering and activist scotus decision claiming racism doesn’t exist.

    Dems get more votes in elections, but can’t get people elected because of gerrymandering.

    Arizona is a good example of wingnut voter suppression of mostly minorities in 2016. http://usuncut.com/politics/5-examples-voter-suppression-arizona-primary/

  75. Good Sense

    “”” 360,000,000 people in the usa. most are not successful. you think they chose this. you support laws that exclude their vote.”””

    Give us your definition of successful.

  76. stum: “Craig, then why can’t they get the proper voting documents?????? […]You tell me why it is so tough for only minorities!””

    Voter ID laws are targeted at the less fortunate and yes that does target minorities, but the impact reaches many others including the elderly and the working poor of all races. This subject has been researched and discussed at length so it shouldn’t be a shock to anyone to find out that those with the least amount of income are much less likely to have government issued IDs. When you don’t have a car you don’t need a driver’s license, and by the time you figure out that you need a ID card to vote it might be too late to get one. This is the entire reason these laws are being rolled out… it isn’t to stop widespread voter fraud as none has ever been discovered. It is all about controlling who has access to vote, and if we can keep the minorities and the poor away from the polling place guess who has a chance to benefit?

    Let’s not pretend voter ID laws are helping democracy. They aren’t.

    BTW stum, I didn’t make this issue all about minorities… you did when you decided it was appropriate to lump them all in a bucket and accuse them of living off of food stamps. You can brag about what it means to live a successful life all day long, but when there are people like you out there who see a minority and automatically assume they must be on food stamps and housing assistance then you start to realize their path to success has a lot more hurdles than it would for you or I.

  77. Whiner from Iowa, is anything in your pathetic life your fault, or is your whole miserable existence caused by the GOP???

    That’s it Leslie?? You think the leadership of the Dems care about rights or votes? Come on, I thought you were smarter than that.

    Craig, good liberal response. Take my words and turn them into yours. “All minorities are on foodstamps and welfare” I really said that???


  78. Good Sense

    Lets hear from someone who wishes to define what a ‘living wage’ is.

    If $15 is good, why not $45, or how about $75?

  79. bearcreekbat

    Good Sense, how about this:

    A living wage would provide enough income to pay for rent, utilities, food and clothing, transportation, insurance, medical costs, taxes, and other necessities of life depending on circumstances – such as diapers or day care for families with young children. In addition, a living wage would provide enough extra so an individual or family could begin to accumulate savings for emergencies, kids’ college costs, retirement, and perhaps a down payment on a starter home.

  80. I think you know what a living wage is, Good Sense. A living wage is 15/hr in most areas of the country and even then it still can be hard to budget on that wage.

    Conservatives resort to sarcasm when they have nothing else of substance in the debate to throw out.

  81. Steve Sibson

    Anybody know how to get blood (money) out of a turnip (laziness of a socialist state)?

  82. Good Sense

    Ok, bear,

    name the $$ amount.

  83. Good Sense

    Jenny, if $15 is marginal, how much more do you think? Or are YOU satisfied with $15?

  84. And: a living wage is not having to rely on the govt to provide food stamps each month to get by even when you are working a 40 hr week.

  85. bearcreekbat

    Good Sense, that would depend on where the family lives as indicated by Jenny, but I suspect $15 per hour would be a reasonable starting wage for many areas.

  86. Good Sense

    Lets say in SD, the min wage goes to $15. That makes it illegal for anyone who wants to work at $14.

    How about the high school Junior, 16 years old, who wants to stock shelves at County Fair in Mitchell? She cannot go to work for less than $15.

    The owners of County Fair say, “screw that, I am not paying an entry level employee $15.” So now, Samantha, the 16-yr old, is not able to work.

    Now, lets go into the bigger city, and Travis, who is school dropout wants to go to work. No employer is going to hire an unskilled, high school dropout for $15. Now Travis, who saw the light and wants to better himself says, “I will work for $13 an hour so I can get some experience and earn a few bucks. Ms HR manager says, ‘sorry pal, its not legal for me to hire you at $13”. Travis realizes that he is hosed and looks for a place to start peddling drugs.

  87. For blathering his Christianity on here all the time, Sibby and Stu and other conservatives on here sure doesn’t seem to have any dignity when it comes to the low wage poverty workers of the country.

  88. I know felons that are starting at 15/hr in MN, Good Sense. I appreciate employers that are willing to take a chance on ex-jail birds and to help turn someone’s life around.

  89. Stum your exact quote is “I get so tired of you whining about minorities being blocked from voting. Nobody is being blocked anywhere. Get the required documents. I am guessing they find a way to get their food stamps and heating assistance.”

    Your statement says “they” find a way to get their food stamps, and in this statement “they” refers to minorities. So you are suggesting minorities are using food stamps and heating assistance. You didn’t specify if this was a subset of minorities or a specific type of minority, so we will have to read your comments as written. One option would be to apologize for your sweeping generalization and racist comment… another option would be to just deflect and blame others for misunderstanding your words. Guess which option you chose?

  90. Honestly, it shouldn’t be this hard to ask for a living wage for Corporate America’s low wage employees.
    In SD 15/hr is heaven to a lot of people I guess, way to greedy of a wage. Sigh…….

  91. mike from iowa

    Whining Stumpy from Wingnut Whiner Land- how did this get to be about me?

  92. Good Sense

    Ahhhhh yes, the good old tried and true method of choice by the left: “racism”.

    You do know that more whites are on welfare than minorities? So that takes your bogus “they” meaning minorities and flushes it down the crapper.

  93. mike from iowa

    Good Sense-how much profit is enough? 15%? How about 50% or even 100% profit? Would that allow you cheapskates to pay a minimum wage without screaming poverty for the billionaires?

  94. Craig, not one racist comment anywhere in my post. Are you saying that the “poor” minorities that can’t seem to figure out how to vote do not use any public assistance. Because if they do, it is you who needs to apologize to me.

    Mike, because your ever negative whinefest has to get tiresome even to the diehard liberals on here.

  95. mike from iowa

    Actually Good Sense, Libs provide provable stats and facts. You wingnuts pull stuff out of your butts and swear it is gospel.

  96. mike from iowa

    Stumpy, have you taken your meds recently? You pretend to be the victim,ergo you are the whiner.

  97. Good Sense: “How about the high school Junior, 16 years old, who wants to stock shelves at County Fair in Mitchell? She cannot go to work for less than $15.

    The owners of County Fair say, “screw that, I am not paying an entry level employee $15.” So now, Samantha, the 16-yr old, is not able to work.”

    You may post under the name of Good Sense, but I’m honestly having trouble understanding how you find what you wrote to be in any way sensible or logical.

    First off, employers don’t hire people out of the goodness of their hearts. They hire people because they need work to be done. If County Fair needs someone to stock their shelves and if they are required to pay $15 an hour then they will hire someone at $15 an hour. The only way around this is to adapt their business to where they would need less labor. Perhaps they can require customers to bag their own groceries or they can stop stocking each product on the shelf but instead can just drag pallets of products onto the sales floor and let customers pick what they want directly from the boxes. In both cases they would likely lose customers as a result… so we are back to them needing employees.

    If they need a stockperson at $12 an hour, then they also need that person at $15 an hour. There is a point when wages reach a level where an employer will find ways to do without a certain number of employees by investing in more automation, more self-service, etc. but history has shown us that small tiered increases in the minimum wage do not have a negative impact upon the labor pool as a whole because they are not disproportionate to the wages earned by the populace as a whole. Thus if you have low wage employees at $15 an hour it doesn’t result in an imbalance, but if you tried paying them $75 an hour then there would be an imbalance and it simply wouldn’t work due to increased pressure on the middle and upper middle class wages.

    Also keep in mind that if the minimum wage kept up with overall income growth in the US since it was first enacted, the wage would be over $20 an hour right now. However for decades we have seen the earnings rise for those at the top but the middle and lower classes have seen their respective purchasing power decrease. So it is an unsupportable position to believe that raising the minimum wage would eliminate jobs. Just the opposite is true – when you put money into the pockets of the American worker they tend to spend it which stimulates the economy and results in MORE jobs.

    Finally, we need to remember the wages paid to minimum wage workers today are artificially subsidized by us – the taxpayers. Many of these workers collect other government benefits due to their low incomes whether it be SNAP benefits (food stamps), Medicare insurance, housing assistance, or tax subsidies such as the earned income credit that result in them receiving more in federal income tax than they paid in. This means that a private company gets to pay lower wages, but we are helping them do so. If those employees did collect a living wage they would likely no longer quality for all of the government assistance which today helps prop them up. This means less burden on the taxpayers and more spending power to the lower and middle classes.

    29 states currently have minimum wages above the federal level. Dozens of cities across the US already have minimum wages above their state levels and above the federal level. Yet when we compare the economies of these cities and states they are doing better than their peers which have not raised minimum wages. Just look at the list of states that have no minimum wage above the federal level and you find states like Wyoming, Mississippi, Alabama, and Tennessee… all states that have economies and/or job growth doing worse than the national average.

    The data is there to prove raising wages for the lowest incomes does actually result in a more vibrant economy and less reliance upon government subsidies. It doesn’t result in the massive job losses that the naysayers like to predict nor does it result in employers simply giving up and closing their doors. Like it or not, the data just doesn’t support that view.

  98. Good Sense: “You do know that more whites are on welfare than minorities? So that takes your bogus “they” meaning minorities and flushes it down the crapper.”

    How about you try to read stum’s actual quote first before posting. You’ll find where he used the term minorities. It wasn’t implied – it was actually written.

    Maybe change your name to something less ironic.

  99. stum: “Craig, not one racist comment anywhere in my post.”

    Really? Because generally when people make sweeping generalizations about minorities finding a way to get their food stamps and heating assistance it smells like racism to me. But hey… I’ve been wrong before. You probably meant a different type of minority. Like women, homosexuals, or scientologists maybe. If so… my bad.

    stum: “Are you saying that the “poor” minorities that can’t seem to figure out how to vote do not use any public assistance. Because if they do, it is you who needs to apologize to me.”

    What type of bizzaro world is this exactly… you are fabricating something which at no time was included in any of my posts and then saying I need to apologize to you for [not] saying it? Is this really how your mind works?

    First of all stum, let’s remember it was you – and only you- who stated that “I am guessing [minorities] find a way to get their food stamps and heating assistance.” That is on you – you are the one who seems to think minorities are automatically on food stamps.

    To make matters worse, you are now trying to twist this into an issue where these minorities “can’t seem to figure out how to vote”. Sorry stum, but figuring out how to vote isn’t the issue… being PREVENTED from voting is. Having obstacles against voting is the issue. Attempting to limit who can vote is the issue. Attacking the democratic process is the issue. Trying to change the rules to limit the type of voter allowed to vote even though our system has worked well for over a hundred years without any significant problems is the issue.

    But you want to pretend this is about preserving democracy while you let your true feelings and biases towards minorities slip. This isn’t about preventing voter fraud – this is about controlling the vote, and if you don’t see that you are either ignorant or dishonest.

  100. Good Sense

    Minimum wage settings make it illegal to hire anyone with little or no skills at less than the minimum wage.

    How are unskilled workers going to find jobs?

    As a business owner, I will be hiring skilled workers at the min wage rate, not unskilled people.

    And now I need to consider going to automated production rather than human production. We already see it in some fast food places, drive thru will be by computer ordering and humans being taken out of the loop.

    One of the reasons why the auto industry got rid of human assemblers. High wages/benefits were instrumental in going robotic. Plus other factors such as accuracy, no sick leave, no vacation, no workers comp, no health insurance.

    Entry level jobs are not intended for the sole wage earner in total support of their family.

    It opposes every tenet of economics.

  101. mike from iowa

    Entry level jobs are not intended for the sole wage earner in total support of their family.

    In places,those are the only jobs available. Screw the tenets of economics when the haves spend their money preventing the have-nots from having anything. It is called real life in a wingnut world.

  102. Good Sense


    I will self-identify as a liberal for a while and blame my high school teachers for not teaching me good reading comprehension.

    And I will be butt-hurt because you hurt my feelings.

    Where is my safe zone?????????????????????

  103. Steve Sibson

    “dignity when it comes to the low wage poverty workers of the country”

    I am not the one using them as political pawns.

  104. I get a kick out of that too mike. Intentions are wonderful, but reality is quite a different beast.

    We have witnessed the cost of higher education skyrocket putting it out of reach of many. Other burdens such as the need for health insurance or needing a job to help pay for an unplanned pregnancy and childcare result in someone choosing the workforce instead of college.

    We have employers suggesting they won’t hire unskilled workers, yet for those who cannot attend post-secondary educational institutions to learn the skills they need it may mean taking a entry level unskilled job. If that means using the income from that job to support their family then they will do so regardless of what some random armchair economist thinks was the intention of that job.

  105. Good Sense : “Where is my safe zone?????????????????????”

    Apparently not in a book.

    (I jest… but in the interest of common ground you’ll be happy to know I despise ‘safe zones’ as much as you likely do. Perhaps video games have taught us that save points are a thing, but in the real world we don’t get such things and they don’t hand out participant ribbons for successful adulting)

  106. So a politician representing and fighting for their low wage constituents is just using them as political pawns, Sibby?

    No, it’s called representing your people and acknowledging that many of them are barely getting by.
    Gee, get a grip, Sib. I understand there are horrible ruthless politicians out there but those ones are never ever going to mention poverty and low wages.

  107. Steve Sibson

    Politicians fight for votes. We had South Dakota Democrats pass a law regarding minimum wage, and the problem was not solved. So what was the real purpose…Political propaganda.

  108. Whether the problem was solved depends upon what you define the problem as, and what your measures of success are.

    That said, as much as they might like to take credit for it, the South Dakota Democrats didn’t pass any minimum wage laws. The South Dakota voters did… and last I checked there are a lot more South Dakota Republicans than there are South Dakota Democrats – so I guess this wasn’t a win for a political party but rather a win for the poorest amongst our populace.

  109. mike from iowa

    Good Sense-there’s your problem. Many of us learned to read in 3rd grade or sooner. For all anyone knows you may be one of those “jocks” who get into college on athletic ability alone and can’t read or write to save yourself.

    Most libs support teachers and the hard,good works they do for our children. Wingnuts like to denigrate teachers so they can privatize schools and let religious whackjobs indoctrinate eveyone’s child with anti-Muslim, pro gun, anti minority BS.

  110. bearcreekbat

    Good Sense, Craig’s answer to your questions about young or inexperienced people who would work for less than a $15/hour minimum is miles better than anything I could write – thanks Craig! I will add a couple of points anyway.

    First, your “problem” seems completely unrelated to the amount of the minimum wage. Rather it addresses any minimum wage, no matter how tiny. So if the minimum wage is $1 an hour, and someone is willing to work for $0.25 an hour but can’t get a job because the employer has to pay $1 an hour, the problem you present doesn’t change. And I doubt that you seriously want the minimum wage lowered to a $1 an hour.

    Second, I think I was wrong to suggest that $15 an hour would be a good place to start. Upon reconsideration I would prefer simply setting the minimum wage at the same amount it was initially set, adjusted for inflation. That would make it at least $20 hour as Craig pointed out.

  111. mike from iowa

    Sibby- pols get in line to get paid and receive instructions on how to vote.

    And Good Sense, I find it hilarious for wingnuts in the US congress to bitch that teachers ONLY work 9 months of the year when the Sinate is down to about 80 total working days for the entire year.

  112. mike from iowa


    Hey Stumpy-here is more clear and convincing evidence that wingnuts are deliberately trying to prevent minorities and low income voters from voting.

  113. There’s a few good politicians left, Mike, but they’re in the minority. MN Gov Mark Dayton is not in it for the money and Bernie, of course, come to mind and there are some very decent local politicians here in MN that fight for the common good.
    Dayton and Bernie voted against the unpopular Iraq war (and MNs beloved Wellstone as well)

  114. mike from iowa

    Employers used to give a shit about employees and their well being and families. Now it is all about cutting every damn expense to increase profits because wingnuts religion is greed.

  115. mike from iowa

    Here is one last shot at wingnuts and greed and crony capitalism in Alaska at the expense of the elderly and children of Alaska-

    Crony capitalism? You decide.
    The oil industry today doesn’t even attempt to cloak the crony capitalism going on in Alaska any more. With the majority cutting benefits for vulnerable seniors, foster kids and education, while hemorrhaging hundreds of millions in oil tax credit payments, last week, the president of the Alaska Oil and Gas Association, Kara Moriarty, testified the House proposal to phase out a state law that actually writes checks to the oil industry was a “flagrant money grab.” Yes. It is flagrantly grabbing money for our senior citizens now receiving $8 a month.
    A few weeks ago Rebecca Logan, general manager of the Alaska Support Industry Alliance, testified against cutting oil tax credits, and chastised lawmakers that they should have cut more from the state budget. She told a Senate committee “You guys didn’t do your job.” Apparently the job being to cut the poor, sick and disabled and take Alaskans’ PFDs – so we can keep paying oil tax credits. To borrow a phrase from George W. Bush, they are doing a heck of a job.
    The unholy marriage of our government to Big Oil is now complete. Cheers. Crony Capitalism? Seems like the cronies own the Capitol.

  116. Jenny, Mark Dayton is a wack job and neither he or Wellstone would ever have been elected in Minnesota if it wasn’t for the liberal Metro area and the Iron Range, which is a Democratic money pit.

    I am wondering why it is racism if I mention minorities on welfare, but not racism when several of you always sell minorities short by telling they are not bright enough or have the where with all to figure out their polling places or figure out how to get the documents needed to vote? Seems like you all think minorities are stupid! Seems a little racist to me. I give them more credit than that and think they are fully capable of figuring out how and where to vote just like the “privileged” white people.

  117. By the way, lets just set minimum wage at $50 an hour. What the heck, if you want every mom and pop business and every small town to go away because they can barely make it now, why keep them hemorrhaging until they are finally out of business with the $15 an hour wage, just get it over with right away and go to $50. You guys always point to Walmart, McDonalds, etc. How many of those are in the majority of small South Dakota towns??

  118. mike from iowa

    Here Stumpy-see if you can read this-


    and this-


    plus Walker moved Wisconsin’s primary date up a month from September to August because college age voters would still be away from college on vacation in August,assuring less votes for Dems.

  119. mike from iowa

    As for Walmart, how many mom and pop operations are left after Walmart runs everyone out of business? People who don’t get paid a living wage can’t buy from mom and pop operations-they must shop where the prices are lower to stretch their meager earnings.Simple economics even wingnuts should understand.


  120. Did the DMV closures have anything to do with DMV usage? Could the 15 closed have been the least utilized? Or was it for sure a closing to once again put a thumb on the black man? Sounds a little like liberal paranoia and making a story where there is really an explanation. How about the 25% whites that lived in those areas, maybe they were targeting them???

    Really, college kids are too stupid to vote at their home precinct?? My kids do it all the time or they vote by absentee if they will be gone.

    Again you talk silliness. I live over an hour from the closest Walmart or box store and I am sure many Iowans or South Dakotans do too. They need their small towns, but unfortunately the Dems don’t care about them and want them out of business. Nice Mike, nice!

  121. Stump, Dayton is a very decent man and he’s done a very good job as governor. He’s worked for no salary when he was Senator and is pro-education, worker’s rights, living wage, universal healthcare, LGBT rights. Dayton was born into great wealth but has been a voice for the poor and working class. He’s well-liked here and won his second term easily.
    Wellstone was one of the most decent Senators ever to be in Congress and is an icon amongst liberals all over the country.
    These guys and Sanders were right all along about the Iraq based-all-on-lies war and should be commended for it.

  122. I would be willing to find common ground to just advocate for giant corporations like the Wal Marts and Targets to required pay a living wage. Trust me, then can afford it.

    Smaller businesses could be given a tax write off if they paid a living wage. How about that?

  123. Giant corporation like the Wal Marts and Target’ to be required by federal law to pay a living wage (15/hr starting) meant to say)

  124. stum: “I am wondering why it is racism if I mention minorities on welfare, but not racism when several of you always sell minorities short by telling they are not bright enough or have the where with all to figure out their polling places or figure out how to get the documents needed to vote?”

    By all means, please cite or quote someone who indicated minorities are not “bright enough” to figure out their polling places. You can attempt to deflect your own biases, but it doesn’t negate their importance.

    stum: “By the way, lets just set minimum wage at $50 an hour.”

    That straw man was already addressed had you bothered to read it. However, I know when you’re trying to troll posters via drive by nonsense it gets hard to keep up, so I’ll do you a solid and re-post it again:

    >>>History has shown us that small tiered increases in the minimum wage do not have a negative impact upon the labor pool as a whole because they are not disproportionate to the wages earned by the populace as a whole. Thus if you have low wage employees at $15 an hour it doesn’t result in an imbalance, but if you tried paying them $75 an hour then there would be an imbalance and it simply wouldn’t work due to increased pressure on the middle and upper middle class wages.<<<

    There is a lot more to it, but the bottom line is nobody is suggesting we pay anyone $50 or $75 an hour or that doing so would result in more balance in our economy. In fact, mandating such wages would result in more imbalance as other wage growth would be unable to keep pace and as a result overall consumer spending would fall due to job losses and a shrinking labor pool.

    We are talking about a living wage. Nothing more. If you don't understand the concept of a living wage and what it entails, then by all means google is your friend. The simple version is that someone working 40 hours a week should have a wage which is sufficient to pay for their basic needs in their respective geographic area, ideally without the need for government subsidies as is so common today. Maybe a living wage in South Dakota is $13.70 an hour while a living wage in Arizona is $15.20 an hour. The actual number is not the issue, the concept is what is important.

    A living wage is NOT a wage which allows everyone to drive a new car and wear designer clothes nor does it offer sufficient income to save for retirement, invest in the stock market, or buy a new iPhone every 12 months. It will cover basic needs only, so let's not pretend we are creating some huge imbalance in our economy by pushing for the bare minimums required for survival.

  125. mike from iowa

    Stumpy,w/l resorting to crayons and drawing you pics you prolly still wouldn’t understand-let me say this. Aladamnbama is one of numerous states that used to need preclearance from the feds on election decisions because of their past histories of voter disenfranchisement.

    Activist wingnut John Roberts tossed that aside saying that more minorities than ever were signed up to vote, racism was no longer a problem. Racism is still prevalent in white wingnut controlled states-they are the perpetrators of false claims of voter i.d. fraud and the first chance they got they went after minority voters, again. The evidence is all around-you just refuse to acknowledge it.

    Tell me why white wingnuts would target white voters in states that rapidly are becoming minority/majority states? Whitey wingnut is an endangered species and they are using every illegal tactic to hold on to power. You and your white buds are gonna have to face reality sooner or later.

  126. mike from iowa

    As for students being able to vote absentee or at home-what was the purpose of moving the primaries up a month sooner?

    Wisconsin also changed the rules so student’s college i’d’s were no longer acceptable at proof to vote. Walker’s goons also charged citizens $28 for a free voter registration. Illegally because that makes the registration fee a poll tax and a burden on poor and minorities.

  127. Of course you are saying they can not figure out how to vote. You haven’t mentioned white people having trouble voting, you are just targeting the minorities and saying they can not figure out how to vote. What else are you saying?

    By the way, I have read every post on here. What I have heard is Walmart is bad, they don’t pay enough, but you want different rules for them. How do you determine who has to pay the minimum wage you proposed? Mom and Pop shops in small towns struggle enough, they can’t afford it. Is the government going to look at who is the most profitable and make them pay more?

  128. stum I’m still waiting for a citation showing where anyone said minorities can’t figure out how to vote. Since you claim you read every post on here, it shouldn’t be that difficult for you to support your accusations with fact.

    Until you do so, you’re just deflecting and trying to change the subject away from your own racist statements.

  129. So what is the problem then Craig? No discrimination to be found then? You are saying the new voting regulations disenfranchise the poor and minorities. How is that? The only difference I can see is you are saying they are not able to figure out how to do it? Same rules for everyone, but for some reason the minorities can’t manage it?

    Mike, having a primary in September is too late. It is only a month and a half from the election. You need more time to get overseas ballots out and get them back etc., that was the reason for the move.
    Another convenient lie that you are trying to spread. The voter ID is free. If you are only getting the ID to vote, it is free. If you want an ID to be used for other things besides voting, it is the regular $28. Nice try.

  130. Jenny, I think we all agree that there a people who have been dealt a bad deck and working in the business I am in, I will tell you that they are in the minority of the people struggling. Safety programs were put in place to help them. But you need to admit that a lot of people have made terrible decisions or have been very irresponsible and your answer is for the people who have made better decisions to take care of them. Why does the liberal party never want to blame people or ask for some personal responsibility? The middle class is getting squeezed, so quit taking their hard earned money and give it to the ones making poor decisions after poor decisions. At some point, when you continually reward poor decisions, everyone is making them and at some point you won’t have enough people or business actually paying taxes to sustain everyone. 45% of our nation does not pay Federal Income tax, in fact of that amount 27 million families received an earned income credit, which is a direct handout from the government. It is my tax dollar, money I earned just handed over to someone else. Now you will say it is because Walmart doesn’t pay them $40,000 per year and everybody should no matter education, experience or what they are doing should get that. Could some big corporations still survive, sure, would the majority of rural America disappear, absolutely!! If all 45% would get out and vote, they could put whomever they want into office and why wouldn’t you continue to vote in those that are going to take money from those who are doing okay and give it away? Our country would eventually implode. Lets get back to having the school kids and college kids and those people who would like to work a second job, flip burgers and stock shelves and man checkouts like was intended and not rely on those jobs to be careers!

  131. stum: “So what is the problem then Craig? No discrimination to be found then?”

    The problem is, you can’t support your accusations. You said “several of you always sell minorities short by telling they are not bright enough […]” yet when pressed, you haven’t been able to quote anyone who said any such thing. Just more attempts to shift the subject away from your own racist statements.

    stum: “You are saying the new voting regulations disenfranchise the poor and minorities. How is that? The only difference I can see is you are saying they are not able to figure out how to do it?.”

    If that is the only difference you see, then once again you are displaying your racist line of reasoning. Yet for someone who claims he reads every post you seem to have missed it when I explained it the first time.

    Let me repeat for your benefit:

    >>>it shouldn’t be a shock to anyone to find out that those with the least amount of income are much less likely to have government issued IDs. When you don’t have a car you don’t need a driver’s license, and by the time you figure out that you need a ID card to vote it might be too late to get one. <<<

    Note that at no time did I suggest anyone wasn't bright enough to figure out how to vote. Those were your words that you claim were suggested, but we have yet to see where.

    Yet the point that the new voting regulations disenfranchise the poor and minorities remains true. The fact is, voter ID laws have an impact upon many voters including non-minorities, but their actual impact results in more minorities, elderly, and low income voters being impacted. It is what we refer to as disparate impact and is actually illegal in some industries.

    The reasoning this targets some groups more than others is because people in these groups are less likely to drive and thus less likely to have a drivers license. It isn't that they are stupid or not "bright enough". Instead it is that they may be less able to take time off from work to obtain government ID, and in many cases find it more difficult to produce the necessary materials/documentation to obtain the ID they need to vote. It might also be because they are disabled and cannot easily make it to a government office to obtain the ID. Thus it disenfranchises them because they may have to spend many hours and potentially what is to them a significant sum of money and likely many headaches navigating a system which seems designed to prevent them from voting.

    I can just drive to the drivers license station on my day off and think nothing of it. If I don't have one of the pieces of identification they need, I can just drive back home and grab it. No big hassle for me and I won't even think about the gas money. But let's pretend I was disabled and had to arrange for a pickup from a bus and then had to switch busses downtown and then had to pay to ride those buses and then once I got there realized I am missing a document they claim I need so now I have to take a separate bus to the court house and then fill out some paperwork before they tell me I need to pay for a certified copy of my birth certificate or marriage license etc. and then I have to take another bus back to the drivers license station only to realize they close in 20 minutes and there are 14 people ahead of me in line… so now I have to start all over next week if I manage to scrape up the bus fare again. Perhaps it wouldn't be so easy now would it?

    Or maybe I am working two part time jobs to support my family – I work 50-60 hours a week but because it is two separate jobs neither of them is classified as full time so I don't get vacation time. My main job is at Walmart but they won't schedule me for more than 29 hours a week because they don't want me to be full time, but rest assured they expect me to be there when I'm on the schedule. If I miss my shift I could lose my job or at the very least the hours I need to feed my family. I could take a taxi during my lunch hour, but it is doubtful I could get back and forth within my lunch break and I can't risk losing this job that I need. Plus, taxi fare there and back could cost me two hours wages… I'm not sure it is worth it. So it is easier to just give up and not vote right?

    Don't act like you don't already know this. You are just being deliberately obtuse as you attempt to shift the debate and accuse others of the very racism you have displayed. So go ahead and pretend it doesn't matter… after all – your vote isn't being impacted so who cares right?

  132. How many of these voters that happen to fall in the exact boxes you have put forth actually voted anyway or planned to vote?? There just happens to be people that fall into those categories that make your narrative seem to be so heartwarming, when the truth is most don’t vote anyway!!

    You make up crazy things like by the time they figure out what they need it is too late.. Really?? These laws go into effect the day before elections? If voting is so important and all of these people who can buy groceries, make doctors appointments, some to find time to sign up for welfare and etc., can not find the same time or transportation to do something that is so sacred to democracy, voting???

    Please continue with the trumped up scenerios that even you are smart enough to realize are very rare. I suppose that same disabled person was going to get picked up by a Democratic sponsored bus and brought to the polling place, of course getting coffee and a roll on the bus, to vote on election day?? I am sure you are in the camp that says felons should have all their voting rights returned also?

    Why any voting rules? Why not call in votes? Why not mail ballots to everyone and just have them send them back, postage paid?

    Don’t act like you care so much for these people who you say can not navigate the system. You are as guilty as anyone because you want these people to vote for YOUR candidate, for your agenda. If minorities voted in huge blocks for Republicans, you certainly would not be on here with the same argument. The Dems have used the minorities for years to get elected and have done nothing for them in return, except play lip service!!! Have a good day.

  133. stum: “How many of these voters that happen to fall in the exact boxes you have put forth actually voted anyway or planned to vote?? ”

    Who cares! I don’t care if most of them wouldn’t bother, I care about those who WOULD even if that is a small minority of them. I also don’t care who they vote for, I only care about giving them the right to do so.

    stum: “Why any voting rules? Why not call in votes? Why not mail ballots to everyone and just have them send them back, postage paid?”

    Nice straw man, but nobody is suggesting there are NO rules to voting. The issue is the installation of barriers which are targeted at a specific class of citizens for no legitimate reason. There has been no proven widespread fraud and no evidence that a lack of government issued IDs has resulted in any election result being manipulated. The one and only reason these laws are pushed is because they disenfranchise voters. Period.

    stum: “You are as guilty as anyone because you want these people to vote for YOUR candidate, for your agenda”

    Nope – sorry. Who they vote for isn’t my business. I just care that they be given the ability to vote. Many of the poorest parts of our nation are in the deep South and they overwhelmingly vote for Republican candidates – which is perfectly fine! I just like the idea of one person = one vote. Everyone should be represented, and we shouldn’t push legislation to limit the votes of people regardless of who they support.

    Thanks for telling me what you think I believe though – that is incredible helpful.

  134. mike from iowa

    Stumpy-you are a freaking idiot!!!

    This week an internal memo was leaked from a top Department of Transportation official that instructed Division of Motor Vehicles service center workers to “refrain from offering the free version to customers who do not ask for it.”

    In other words if you did not specifically ask for the “free” ID, you would be charged $28 bucks for the privilege of voting.

    – See more at: http://www.prwatch.org/news/2011/09/11013/wisconsin-worker-fired-email-free-voter-ids#sthash.JOwNPLAP.dpuf

  135. bearcreekbat

    mfi – your link shows how Wisconsin has fallen into the proverbial toilet under Walker. Now under Walker, senior citizens, minorities and college students are targeted with the disenfranchisement goal. It makes one wonder what is in the cheese that so deluded the Wisconsinites who voted for Walker and his legislators into office. I suspect very few of those voters wanted their candidates to attempt to disenfranchise so many of their friends, relatives and neighbors, regardless of their political preferences.

  136. gs at 12:46-“360,000,000 people in the usa. most are not successful”

    Of those individuals with income who were older than 15 years of age, 48% had incomes below $25,000.

    income below $25 k is not “successful”.

    add to that 48%…”$25k–$50k income for
    27.25%”. so 75% make less than $50k.

    somewhere above $25k becomes “successful”. another 4% make up to $28K.
    48% plus 4% equals “most”.

    if most of 360,000,000 earn less than enough, that is unsuccessful.

    it is likely that $28k income still leaves one “unsuccessful”. there’s your definition. living on $28k doesn’t leave you with much should anything go wrong. that’s not successful. one crisis away from disaster.


  137. Good Sense


    Your definition of ‘successful’ leaves a lot to be desired. Your post defines success as money only. Many people will disagree with you.

    For example, a 16 year old making $25k may consider herself pretty successful.

    It all depends what the definition of ‘is’ is.

    Your definition of success is yours alone.

  138. Good Sense


    ::: And I doubt that you seriously want the minimum wage lowered to a $1 an hour. :::

    I want the minimum wage done away with. How’s that for a stand?

  139. Good Sense, so what is your definition of successful?

  140. Mike, only an idiot would not ask for the free one!! My guess is you would be charged $28!!

  141. stum I’d like to take a moment to thank you for your presence on this site. I know you are essentially just a troll, and you likely smirk every time you post a comment thinking you’ll get people fired up about whatever inflammatory nonsense you come up with, but I see things a bit differently.

    You see, you represent the far right. When people read these comments they see your lack of logic and your disregard of the facts. They see your commitment to attack those you disagree with, the refusal to accept that the left might have a few good ideas, and your display of blatant racism. In short, you are a prime example of why so many people are distancing themselves from the far-right wing of the Republican Party and why someone like Donald Trump is now the symbol of what is left of the GOP.

    So thank you stum. In your attempts to troll a few people on a liberal blog you are serving as a prime example to many (most of which only lurk and never actually post comments) of what the far right has become and why it is increasingly difficult to take them seriously.

  142. Right Craig, the caring humanitarian!! There is no discrimination when the rules are the same for everyone! One person, one vote. That is how it should be and that is how it is. Spin it how you would like and again, I know you are smart enough, but want to act like the Dems are holier than thou. The Dems want one vote for one person as long as it is their chosen person!!!

  143. Craig, Craig, Craig!! The left has divided this country so badly the last 7 years that it is sickening. The Party of tolerance can tolerate nothing that is not their viewpoint. You say I do not listen or try to see that some of what the left believes is good and yet you attack every post I have. You have not exactly shown a lot of common ground. Everything to the left is racism or a phobia and they continually berate and condemn everyone who does not fall in line with the far, far left way of thinking. What you call far right was middle ground a few short years ago. As I have posted before, which sums up where the left has gone. In the 60’s the progressives worked to put a man on the moon, today the same party works to put a man in the woman’s bathroom. Your thinking is so far out there that I can not even comprehend how you guys arrive at some of your crazy thoughts and I am guessing you think the same as me!

  144. stum: “There is no discrimination when the rules are the same for everyone!”

    Sorry stum, but once again you are incorrect. I already explained it – we call it disparate impact, and yes it is very much discrimination. In fact in some cases it is blatantly illegal. Simply applying the same rules to everyone isn’t enough, but since you seem to struggle with this concept, let me give you a simple example.

    Let’s say you want to hold an election and the only polling place in town is located on the 3rd floor of a office building which has no elevators. You required all voters to use this polling place, and because you apply this rule to all voters you feel it should be fair. However for anyone in a wheelchair or anyone with mobility problems, voting because practically impossible because they are unable to climb the three flights of stairs to get to the voting booth. So they are left out. Based upon your logic, this should be ok because “the rules are the same for everyone”, but in reality such a rule is very, very discriminatory.

    That is an over-simplified example obviously and most discrimination isn’t quite as overt, but you get the point. The same discrimination can exist whenever we fail to factor in the impact upon other classes.

    It is almost as if you don’t understand what disparate impact even is, so perhaps this is a new concept for you. If that is the case, let me provide you with a link so you can learn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_impact

    stum: “I know you are smart enough, but want to act like the Dems are holier than thou.”

    There you go again making assumptions about what I believe. The truth is, the Democratic party does many things I disagree with and they have played the political game much like the Republicans have. You won’t find me claiming the Dems are without fault nor are they perfect, but since you steered the discussion towards voting, that is what I opted to discuss. So when it comes to voting, I believe barriers should be removed. I believe we need to take steps to ensure each citizen has the opportunity to vote regardless of who they might vote for. I believe that the democratic process demands that we address inequalities in the process, and such inequalities are never addressed by inserting barriers between a citizen and their vote.

    You can develop whatever theory you wish about the Democratic party and their motivations, but you simply cannot do the same about my motivations, because you have no idea.

    Thanks for providing another example which so clearly demonstrates the reasoning used by the far right. It is always enlightening.

  145. I understand disparate impact. It would be kind of like the discrimination against “real” girls who have to share their locker rooms, sports teams and bathrooms with boys who think they are girls.

  146. No stum… it wouldn’t. That isn’t disparate impact at all, and had you understood what it was, you wouldn’t have wrote “[t]here is no discrimination when the rules are the same for everyone”.

    You seem to struggle with owning the statements you write. I wonder why that is.

  147. bearcreekbat

    Good Sense, if you oppose any minimum wage then you already have lost your argument many years ago. Do you also oppose child labor laws?

  148. bearcreekbat

    Stum, with all the hand wringing you are doing about who shares a bathroom or locker room you must be aware of the thousands and thousands of girls that have been forced to see naked boys who think they are girls or have been forced to show their own naked bodies to these boys.

    That must be why the thousands and thousands of girls you see as victims are suffering from a disparate impact due to this horrible and frightening situation. Can you share your sources that help us all understand where these thousands and thousands of victims are and identify the thousands and thousands complaints you have obviously studied to come to your carefully reasoned fear and loathing?

  149. Craig, yes it is disparate impact. You do not get to make up the definition to fit your scenario. In the case I presented the rules are not the same for everyone and by making special rules you have impacted and discriminated against others.

    Bear, now you are making stuff up again. Thousands and thousands???? Who said that? Remember, by liberal terms if only one is discriminated against, that is enough to make the world end. You can not discriminate against the minority. You see, .3% of the population says they have a mental illness referred to as transgender and you feel no matter how few, they should have special rights. So even if a few girls are impacted, that is discrimination.

    Can you name the thousands and thousands of people who would have actually voted that could not because of laws that are the same for everyone. Not one or two as Craig has said, but thousands and thousands which is the standard bearer I guess.

  150. bearcreekbat

    Stum, Wow I guess I was mistaken in my belief that your fear for little girls was based on the fact that girls were actually being harmed by rules that let people use the bathroom that aligns with their gender identity. If your fear is not based on any factual evidence that girls are being harmed, maybe the idea is to identify a tiny group of kids to be marginalized so you can feel better about yourself?

    As for thousands of voters being harmed by new voter ID laws, you need to read the article that mfi linked at 5-17, 16:34. I must warn you though, the whole article is filled with factual statements. For example,

    “A 2005 Univeristy of Wisconsin-Milwaukee study found that about 177,000 of Wisconsin residents over the age of 65 do not have state-issued IDs. The overall percent of Wisconsinites with a valid drivers license is only 80 percent for males and 81 percent for females. Among African-Americans, only 45 percent of males and 51 percent of females have a valid drivers license. Fifty-nine percent of the state’s Latina women lack the required identification.”

  151. mike from iowa

    Can you prove being transgendered is a mental illness, oh wise Stumpy?

    .3% of 320 million people is 960000 transgenders, Stumpy. .03% of 320 million is still 96000 humans that are not mentally ill.

    Wisconsin article clearly stated the clerks were ordered not to tell people the voter i.d.s were free which makes you an even bigger idiotic than yesterday because you don’t or can’t read and comprehend.

  152. mike from iowa

    OTOH, you and your ilk should be screaming bloody murder that Wisconsin’s citizens want to vote for free-just like they want everything else for free.

  153. bearcreekbat

    According to studies cited by Digby, folks like Stum who obsess on where transgender kids go to the bathroom are most likely Trump supporters:

    “Trump’s bigoted base: Keeping minorities down is the No. 1 issue for the billionaire’s backers — it’s not a theory, it’s a fact

    Data shows Trump voters, above all, are motivated by negative feelings about people who aren’t like them”


  154. bearcreekbat

    According to Seth Meyer, claiming a desire to protect little girls in bathrooms is one of the oldest plays in the Prejudice Book. It has been used for years to justify discrimination against various groups.


  155. mike from iowa

    Liked your link, Bear.

    Here is more proof of how gerrymandering works for wingnuts in Wisconsin and other red states.

    The GOP redistricting plan was so successful that Republican Assembly candidates won 60 of 99 Assembly seats in the 2012 races, even though 61 percent of all votes cast in the state were for Democrats.

    Wingnuts also can’t be investigated by John Doe warrants-kinda like what wingnuts have done to the Clintons over the decades.

  156. Wow, we have now stooped to proving out arguments with articles from Salon, are you kidding me and wait, also Seth Myers, a comedian. You win Bear!!

    You also quoted numbers that have nothing to do with voting. How many of those people have ever voted or plan to vote?? If you need something, like anything else in life, you get it. If you want to vote, do some homework and get the required stuff. It is the same for everyone.

    Your brain says you are a boy, but you are not, normal??? Your brain says you are a dog, you are not, normal??? Your brain says you want to murder your neighbor, normal??? Your brain says little girls are attractive, normal?? Would any of those things be considered a mental illness??

    Mike, should the metro area of Minneapolis/St. Paul get to decide all the politics of MN? The majority of the state lives in the metro area. Is that fair to the people in rural northern MN? Is it possible that large metro areas vote Democratic??

  157. stum: “Craig, yes it is disparate impact. You do not get to make up the definition to fit your scenario. In the case I presented the rules are not the same for everyone and by making special rules you have impacted and discriminated against others.”

    Again stum, you don’t understand what disparate impact is. You just said the rules “ARE NOT” the same for everyone, so if the rules aren’t the same you would be talking about disparate treatment… not disparate impact. I do however acknowledge your desire to change the subject again…. you seem to do that when the facts don’t support your view.

    stum: “You see, .3% of the population says they have a mental illness referred to as transgender”

    Ok so now you’re classifying transgenderism as a mental illness. Is that documented in the DSM IV anywhere by chance?

    I’m guessing in your mind transgenders are mentally ill, just like in your mind minorities “find a way to get their food stamps and heating assistance”. At least your consistent with your close-mindedness, so thanks for once again serving as an example of what the far right has become.

  158. bearcreekbat

    Stum, If you don’t like Salon, then here is a direct link to the study that Digby wrote about:


    “We find that, in short, Trump supporters are quite salty. Even after controlling for race, party identification, ideology, family income, education and age, Trump supporters are more likely to have cold feelings toward many groups. As the chart above shows, Trump supporters are more likely than supporters of other Republican candidates to have negative feelings towards feminists, Muslims, Latinos, Gays and Lesbians, and Transgender people.”

    I know, I know, those darn facts keep raising their nasty heads and conflict with your stated viewpoints.

    And Craig is correct in his description of “disparate impact.” Disparate impact occurs when policies are designed to look neutral on their face, but when implemented adversely impact minorities or discrete groups. Here is an excellent explanation of the meaning of the term:


  159. Actually you’re wrong about that, Stub. Southern MN has voted in the DFL the last decade. It is represented by Congressional House Rep Tim Walz and has strong pro-Union blue collar DFL towns such as Albert Lea and Austin. Rochester, which was conservative for many years, turned blue the last two presidential elections and now has more DFL state legislators than GOP. (Mayo Clinic has also been a strong supporter of LGBT rights). Winona has always been a very liberal college town.
    Really the only strongly conservative GOP towns left in MN are very small rural town by the SD border.

  160. Stub, why are you against the Earned Income Tax Credit?
    You just don’t want to believe that millions of Americans are just barely getting by. Millions live paycheck to paycheck and you continue to blame them. Would you rather have the on welfare?
    Do you blame cancer patients for getting cancer? Do you blame the millions of children for living in poverty?
    I get it why an unwed young woman would choose to get an abortion b/c of people like you. You are the type that would judge her, vilify her for being on food stamps if she applied for them. Many women choose abortion b/c of shame and economical reasons, yet she’s still shamed and judged when she decides to have the baby. Bunch of hypocrites for claiming to be pro-life.

  161. last time stu dismissed huffington post as a liberal rag. salon has just as weighty analysis and authors.

    I don’t read WSJ now that Rupert Murdoch owns it and I don’t listen to Faux News for obvious reasons.

    NYT and Salon often carry the same or similar articles. I’m sure you don’t recognize NYT as any kind of a source a conservative can rely on. read Gaurdian, Indepenant in England, read Australian and Canadian newspapers. its all just a click away. listen to PBS, BBC, ABC, NBC and CBS, Rueters, Christian Science Monitor, Forbes, Atlantic, The Nation, WAPO, the Hill, the new Yorker. there is so much out there, but yes, I know, most of it doesn’t suit your conservatism. its up to you.

  162. mike from iowa

    Keeerist Stumpy-you are totally ignorant how gerrymandering works and why it is used.

  163. mike from iowa

    Stumoy better get back to junior high civics class so he can see how gubmint works and how those in power abuse their powers to their party’s advantage.
    Gosh mike, I can’t do that. You’re stooping to using text books everyone knows Obama writes them in Muslim and they are full of lies because Obama’s from Africa and was gay at one time.

  164. mike from iowa


    This is good and even Stumpy could find his favorite wingnut jingos in here, if he could read.

  165. bearcreekbat

    mfi – your counterpunch link is a great read – Thanks!

  166. mike from iowa

    Not liking any liberal source is just a firewall for Stumpy. He can’t provide coherent arguments for the non-sense he enjoys putting out there and can’t research any info for himself.

  167. Good Sense

    Righties use right leaning website, lefties use left leaning websites, so what’s new? Or are only left wing sites the grand and glorious truth?

  168. mike from iowa

    Finally got one thing right,Good Sense. Stick around and you might yet become an up to date human being. You’ll like the 21st century. Give it a shot.

  169. well, we know for certain that your two most influential, Fox and Limbaugh are basically fraudulent in terms of truth. mere spin machines.

    “Welcome to America where pathological liars are immune to libel lawsuits and slandering Democrats puts even the most feeble of right-wing news entertainers on the path to fame and fortune as the next media darling of the neoconservative morons and the evangelical Wackos of the Apocalypse.” http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/01/09/288674/-Why-Limbaugh-or-Fox-News-Are-Never-Sued-for-Libel

  170. Good Sense

    Wow, leslie

    You unabashedly used one of the most partisan websites to criticize others for being partisan.

    Are you going to use thinkprogress, alternet, or huffpo next?

  171. I have finally figured it out. Mike for Iowa’s mom must have been impregnated by a Republican. He blames all the world’s problems on Republicans, so his miserable existence must be caused by a Republican also!!

    To continue to blame reservation problems on the fact that natives were defeated by the white man years and years ago is pathetic. You guys call yourselves progressives but still want the natives to be able to live off the land like their ancestors! Time to move on!

  172. mike from iowa

    Prove it, Stumpy. Prove it or STFU!