Fearful and Ignorant Aberdonian Blasts Christian Efforts to Help Refugees

While Mayor Mike Levsen shows good sense on refugees and immigration, he also draws out the ugly side of Aberdeen culture. Here’s a yahoo letter in today’s Aberdeen American News:

Just reading in today’s paper about this Tim Jurgens fellow and our mayor really concerns me (“Aberdeen could become home for displaced people,” April 20).

Don’t you suppose the citizens of Aberdeen ought to be concerned about resettling Syrians here? Darn right, after seeing what has happened with them trying to change local customs and traditions in all of Europe. Just look at their demands. Who is going to apologize to these concerned local citizens when they start making demands we don’t want to meet, i.e. no more pork served in our schools, no more displaying the cross and on and on? Who pays Jurgens and how much for doing this?

Our mayor now calls anyone against these relocation efforts a racist or we’re ignorant. You got your head in the sand if you don’t think a lot of folks in this community aren’t getting quite mad about what you and Jurgens are trying to do. Stop it [Dale Dauman, letter to the editor, Aberdeen American News, 2016.04.22].

Briefly:

  1. “This Tim Jurgens fellow” cited in Wednesday’s AAN article on the possibility of making Aberdeen a primary refugee resettlement site is the state refugee coordinator for Lutheran Social Services. He is paid by good Christians to carry out the Christian ethos of loving one’s neighbors and carry out other key planks of God’s platform.
  2. Are Syrian refugees really forcing Europeans not to eat pork at school and not display crosses? Don’t worry, Dale: no one’s going to take away our McRib sandwiches.
  3. Mayor Levsen is right: I haven’t encountered opposition to resettling refugees in the U.S. that is not rooted in either racism or ignorance.

138 Responses to Fearful and Ignorant Aberdonian Blasts Christian Efforts to Help Refugees

  1. Good Sense

    Will Aberdeen soon be equal to Huron?

  2. Steve Sibson

    “He is paid by good Christians to carry out the Christian ethos”

    He is paid by fake Christians to carry out the “socialist” agenda that will create Satan’s kingdom. See Revelation 17 thru 19.

    Cory, who are you to call ignorant? What part of Lutheran “Social” Services to you not understand is “socialism” that promotes coveting. True Christians should not depend on an atheist to define Christian.

  3. Actually, refugees moving in to small dying towns would be a way to build them up again as long as they’re close to bigger towns for jobs. SD always complains about their small towns dying. It would be a win-win for small town grocery stores gas stations and schools.

  4. Hunter Thompson

    Someone needs to make it clear to everyone, and the newspapers are neglecting to do this, that the refugees they are considering bringing to Aberdeen are not Syrians or any other middle eastern group. They are looking at bringing the same refugees that are in Huron to Aberdeen because many of them have been moving to Aberdeen anyway and there is getting to be a population of them in Aberdeen, which is what LSS looks for when they try to find destinations for refugee groups. Everyone is basically freaking out over something that is very conceptual and may not happen and is a group of people who are already in Aberdeen and making themselves look like complete ignorant idiots. /Rant

  5. happy camper

    Rather than calling them ignorant why don’t you reference the lengthy screening process (which you mentioned earlier without any links). On one hand the people on this site are so skeptical of government’s ability to regulate something (like a pipeline) so that same skepticism should be in place in their ability to screen refugees. And assure people that our laws and practices will not bend in the name of political correctness to accommodate their culture and undermine our civil rights. Can you say that unequivocally?

    “Sharia, or Islamic law, influences the legal code in most Muslim countries. A movement to allow sharia to govern personal status law, a set of regulations that pertain to marriage, divorce, inheritance, and custody, is even expanding into the West.”

    What values will refugees bring? Asking is not ignorance. On civil rights most of us know Islam is misogynistic and women rarely have equal rights. Why aren’t feminists calling this out? These two quoted paragraphs are taken from The Council on Foreign Relations which says it is “an independent, nonpartisan membership organization, think tank, and publisher. Each of these functions makes CFR an indispensable resource in a complex world.”

    “Extremist groups such as the al-Qaeda spinoff known as the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS), have become notorious for executions by stoning and crucifixion. They apply hadd punishments rarely used in Islamic history. Vigilante justice also takes place. Honor killings, murders committed in retaliation for bringing dishonor on one’s family, are a worldwide problem. While precise statistics are scarce, the UN estimates thousands of women are killed annually in the name of family honor. Other practices that are woven into the sharia debate, such as female genital cutting, child and adolescent marriages, polygamy, and gender-biased inheritance rules, elicit as much controversy.”

    This entire page is worth reading.

    http://www.cfr.org/religion/islam-governing-under-sharia/p8034

  6. http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/new-americans-Minnesota

    The Aberdeen mayor is on to something. Cory, these are fascinating stat about the purchasing power of immigrants in MN.

  7. Don’t you folks think that that the influx of Somalian refugees had some negative consequences for Minnesota? Many others seem to think so. Jesus does want us to love our neighbors, and so we should, but I think these fears are rooted in more than just racism and ignorance.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/09/the_twin_cities_have_an_isis_problem.html

  8. mike from iowa

    Who needs misogynistic Muslims when we have fauxknee kristian wingnut women haters? Basically, wingnuts don’t want the competition in their war on women.

  9. Steve Sibson

    “wingnuts don’t want the competition in their war on women.”

    Right mike, us competitive free market conservatives don’t like competition? You got it backwards. It is the liberals who want a non-competitive socialist state where women are used as political pawns to implement it.

  10. Do they still have “fish Fridays” during Lent at public schools? I remember those, although it’s been a while.

  11. David Newquist

    The Salem Witch Trials have been moved to Aberdeen. The denomination which led The Reformation has been exposed as fake Christians. The Sermon on the Mount has been displaced by the alleged Free Market. Those who believe in the practices of liberty, equality, and justice are exposed as subversives who sneak hadd punishments and Sharia law into those truths we hold self evident.

    Up until now, I have assumed that I would experience Arthur Miller’s “The Crucible” on a stage, not live it as I walk the streets of Aberdeen, where “crazed children are jangling the keys to the nation” (a paraphrase of Miller).

  12. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I find Sibby’s “I know you are, but what am I?” arguments hilarious. But… Sad!

  13. Oh no, SD just can’t possibly have a decent mayor with ideas about how to build the economy. He should not be talking about bringing poor refugees to town that need jobs. That is just too decent of him.

  14. Steve Sibson

    “The Sermon on the Mount has been displaced by the alleged Free Market.”

    The Sermon on the Mount has been displaced by the Communist Manifesto. The Free Market has been displaced by the progressive’s liberal corporate capitalism.

  15. Tim, the far majority of Muslims in MN are very peaceful and law abiding citizens. They have contributed hundreds of millions to the economy here. I am not in fear of them.
    Trust me, they, just like you and I, are being watched all the time, so feel free to come to MN to visit. It’s a very safe and beautiful state with plenty to do

  16. I meant the Somali refugees whom are majority Muslim.

  17. Porter Lansing

    Mr. Dauman,
    You used i.e. where e.g. was appropriate. Here’s an easy way to remember. i.e. = information expanded whereas e.g. = example given.
    P.S. – With all the time you spend imagining what could go wrong do you have any left to imagine what could go right? Keep that “big brain” workin’, concerned citizen.

  18. I support taking the hundreds of billions we dole out in corporate welfare to pay themselves and the QE policy of the Fed – both of which is mostly used only to further pad the net worth of billionaires – and INVEST it in American infrastructure, education, and health care.

    Steve, question for you. Even though I love my country, I love my fellow Americans (even you), and I love capitalism, do you think I’m in danger of turning Commie?

    Also, is there anywhere I can watch you speak? We seriously need to turn you into a YouTube star. You could have your own podcast and be living the good life in no time.

  19. happy camper

    When I watch “The Crucible” I see the PC culture we have now wanting to be in control. College students tell their teachers and presidents what they can and can’t say.

    As a reminder Jenny in one of your earlier posts you said if refugees come we should be prepared for them. That should include the social implications of practices we don’t allow here.

    It’s reported 93% of Muslim women in Malaysia have suffered genital mutilation. According to a 2005 WHO estimate, about 97.9% of Somalia’s women and girls underwent FGM. The Syrian number is unclear. The Centers for Disease Control estimated in 1997 that 168,000 girls living in the United States had undergone FGM or were at risk.

    “You must peel a banana before you can eat it,” Abu-Bakr says, “and for women, it will reduce their wildness, making them clean and strong.”

    There’s nothing wrong with demanding we be ready to handle big differences in culture.

    https://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/04/93-of-muslim-women-in-malaysia-have-suffered-genital-mutilation

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_female_genital_mutilation_by_country#Syria

  20. Where did I say we need to be prepared for refugees, HC?

    I have lived amongst Muslims for 15 years in MN and have yet to fear them.
    I am in more fear of the drunk cussing redneck down the street.

  21. bearcreekbat

    happy, and then there is our obsession with mutilating the genitals of our male children, including the practice of having a Mohel draw blood from the mutilated genitals with his teeth.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohel

    “And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?” Matthew 7:3 KJV.

  22. mike from iowa

    Sibby,you are still full of more stuff than a kristmas turkey.

  23. mike from iowa

    Regulating a pipeline is easy. First wipe out wingnuts. There. No more back stabbing,regulation removing pawns of the koch bros. No more profit over people or the environment. No more transferring liability from the polluters to the American taxpayers. In short,no more korporate free rides to vast wealth.

  24. Steve Sibson

    “Steve, question for you. Even though I love my country, I love my fellow Americans (even you), and I love capitalism, do you think I’m in danger of turning Commie?”

    Depends on what you mean by capitalism. What the Republican Establishment calls capitalism is not a competitive free market. They have replaced that with an administered market system via public/private partnerships, which have been called “communitarianism” or communist lite. This is what the so-called progressives started at the turn of the 20th Century with Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson. The Chamber of Commerce was formed to help set this system up. Both political parties ore involved. That explains why the NEA (Democratic) gave the South Dakota Chamber of Commerce (SDGOP) a million dollars to protect the system of legalized corruption found in Pierre. Instead of “Commie”, perhaps a better term would be Fabian Socialist.

  25. Steve, just sit down. Your arguments are so tangential to the real public policy questions at stake that I don’t think any reader coming here to read about immigration and local politics can understand what you’re talking about or what practical impact your words would have.

  26. Hunter’s right: I see a fair number of #4 Beadle County license plates around some apartment buildings in my neighborhood.

    Jenny’s also right: people moving to town means more people buying groceries, gas, and services. How does any town in South Dakota look at that prospect and say, ‘No thank you”?

    GS at the top asks a loaded question. Please clarify, neighbor: what do you mean by “equal” to Huron? How are you measuring that equality? Income per capita? School growth? Sales tax revenue growth? Specifics, please.

  27. Happy, do we really need to ask what values they will bring? Can’t we just say, “Whatever your values, welcome to America. Here are our laws. Follow them, like everyone else”? They know we don’t do female genital mutilation, polygamy, child marriages, etc. If their values don’t allow that, they don’t come here. If they try to get by with this bad practices, we shut them down. We don’t need a religious test at the gate.

  28. Roger Cornelius

    Why doesn’t Sibson rant of his own blog, sibbyonline, it must be because no one ever reads it. His last posting was March 11, 2016.
    That should tell all of you the value of Sibson’s word.

  29. From Jenny’s link:

    Minnesota’s foreign-born population contributed $1.2 billion to Social Security and $295 million to Medicare in 2013, accounting for 7.1% of Social Security contributions and 7.5% of Medicare contributions in the state, according to the Partnership for a New American Economy. Latinos in Minnesota paid $567 million in federal taxes and $309 million in state/local taxes in 2013, according to the Partnership for a New American Economy [“New Americans in Minnesota,” American Immigration Council, 2015].

    If all we’re worried about is money, it sounds to me as if those newcomers pay their own way.

  30. Oh! AIC has one of those fact sheets for South Dakota, too. The percentage of foreign-born residents in Minnesota rose from 2.6% in 1990 to 7.4% in 2013. In South Dakota, the foreign-born percentage rose over the same period from 1.1% to 2.8%. We’re just catching up, and we have a long way to go. Like it or not, Minnesota is our future. America will get more diverse. We will not be all white. If that makes you nervous, well, get ready to be nervous for the rest of your life.

  31. Paul T, I agree that refugees need and deserve our assistance far more than billionaire corporations.

  32. To verify, the Muslim religion does not condone female genital mutilation. That is a cultural tribal practice, not a muslim practice.

  33. bearcreekbat

    Interesting idea Jenny. The Bible tells its readers that genital mutilation of baby boys is a requirement or else. In addition to telling Abraham to “kill me a son”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXjAVqLhXuo

    God told Abraham:

    “Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”

    see Genesis 17:10-14 NIV.

    By the way, isn’t Abraham also the patriarch to Islam through his son Ishmael?

  34. David Newquist

    The IS wing of the American Christian Party hath spoken.

  35. Cory I would add more more thing to list for refugees:
    We fully expect to work toward American citizenship

  36. happy camper

    Cory says: They know we don’t do female genital mutilation, polygamy, child marriages, etc. If their values don’t allow that, they don’t come here.

    Sure Cory if that was true. From the Altantic article:

    Eric Schmidt, the executive chairman of Google, gets it. “I don’t see,” he told me this week, “how anyone who believes in the rule of law and the rights of women could do anything other than support efforts to end female-genital mutilation, forced marriage and honor-killings—practices that have no place in the 21st century.”

    These things do happen. Two teenage sisters are shot, point blank, in the back of their father’s taxi, apparently for the shame they brought the family by having boyfriends. A young woman is run down and left to die in a parking lot by her father for refusing a forced marriage. A woman lives in fear that every time she goes to work, her family may decide to cut her young daughter’s clitoris or sew up her labia to ensure her virginity before marriage.

    But what most Americans just don’t get is that such horrors happen here in the United States of America—and not just in faraway countries like Afghanistan or Somalia.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/honor-killings-in-america/391760/

    Bear Cat the little snip boys get is very different from removing the pleasure sensors from women and you know it. Stop excusing it away.

    And Jenny to say the Muslim religion does not condone female genital mutilation when the rates are in the 90s is ludicrous and dishonest.

    Where are the women who care about the rights of other women?

  37. Darin Larson

    Happy, would you care to be judged by what other people imagine you are like or would you like to be judged by what you actually do and who you actually are?

  38. Happy, if FGM was practiced on every single female in the Muslim religion don’t you think we would be hearing about it on top of all the other negatives we hear about Muslims all the time?
    It’s kind of like the belief that all Mormons are polygamists.

  39. happy camper

    I gave you the link do you just want to refuse to believe?

    The highest concentrations among the 15–49 age group are in Somalia (98 percent), Guinea (97 percent), Djibouti (93 percent), Egypt (91 percent) and Sierra Leone (90 percent).[68]:89–90 There is also a high concentration in Indonesia; national figures for adults are not available, but the prevalence rate for the 0–11 age group there is 49 percent, mostly Types I and IV.[3][62

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_female_genital_mutilation_by_country#Syria

  40. I’m not saying FGM is not done in those countries, I’m saying it is not Muslim based. FGM is not mentioned in the Koran and also many Christian women in those countries have had it done also as a tribal ritual.

  41. Steve Sibson

    “Steve, just sit down. Your arguments are so tangential to the real public policy questions at stake”

    I responded directly to your promotion of false Christianity that is designed as an argument supporting your public policies,. as evidenced by the title of this thread. Stop with the political tricks and deal with my points. Or are you going to kick me out of the Madville toilet again? Your bigotry is showing through yet again on this thread. Socialism promotes coveting, and Cultural Marxism promotes hatred. You are being a hypocrite by judging others for promoting hate, bigotry, and greed. Before you continue to criticize Jurgens, perhaps you should take some advice from a Muslim who knows more about the Islamic danger than you do:

    http://www.thestraightway.org/

  42. happy camper

    But if you know the staggering numbers from those places you can’t deny it. If it’s 90% or more why do so many of you keep insisting we must only think of the 10%? That’s just crazy.

  43. happy camper

    Darin just can’t seem to get past the point we set policy based on numbers but we meet each person with an open mind.

  44. Happy, that’s all the more reason we should welcome women and children refugees from those countries to the US. These women deserve much better.

  45. Roger Cornelius

    Madville toilet

  46. Mr. Sibby, please calm down. I want you to stay around here. If you poke the kitty the kitty might scratch you on your nose.

  47. Trivia….Actor plays role as Apache “Cochise” in “Broken Arrow” starring Michael Ansara. He was born in Syria. He fooled me. I thought he was a real Indian.

    Michael George Ansara was born in a small village in the French Mandate for Syria and the Lebanon to American parents, and his family emigrated to the United States when he was two years old. They lived in Lowell, Massachusetts, for a decade before moving to California. He originally wanted to be a physician, but developed a passion for becoming a performer after he began taking acting classes to overcome his shyness. He was educated at the Los Angeles City College, from which Ansara earned an Associate of Arts degree.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgJtxrMR_9w

  48. Ansara also played Klingon Commander Kang in Star Trek… clearly showing Syrians are not to be trusted.

  49. happy camper

    The insanity of this PC culture is in one breath they say embrace diversity, but in the next we are all the same. You can’t have it both ways. We are diverse and refugees will have identifiable problems so look at the totality. Real liberalism is being smothered. Talking to someone in the PC crowd is very similar to talking to a fundamentalist Christian, a circular conversation that goes back to how they want to dictate everyone must see the world. A black and white code of nonsense rules no thank you.

  50. mike from iowa

    Michael Anasara was in at least 2 episodes of the Lone Ranger and every red blooded American knows the Lone Ranger would have no dealings with terrorists.

  51. mike from iowa

    Toilet has been used for DWC,Sibby. Try harder.

  52. Steve Sibson

    “Mr. Sibby, please calm down. I want you to stay around here.”

    If I can’t bring Christian apologetics to the policy discussion without being kicked out, then that is no different than kicking a man, who claims to be a girl, out of the girls’ toilet.

    The dangers of bringing Islamic terrorists into this country puts all of us at risk. And those who disagree are automatically labeled as racist bigots, as demonstrated by this thread. When Cory uses false Christianity to support his position, and I can’t respond without getting kicked off this web site, demonstrates who the real bigots and closed minded hate mongers are. And getting rid of the one who challenges Cory’s ill-conceived opinions so that his propaganda receives praise and worship, unchallenged, is not “free press”.

    Have a good day.

  53. Mr. Sibson has left the building, the power of Zeus has spoken. We shall miss the little rascal, but will soon get over that as the screen door slaps him on the fanny.

  54. Bill Dithmer

    Happy, great post 08:21

    The Blindman

  55. Porter Lansing

    Political Correctness is a Shield for Bigots and Trans-phobes –
    I love political correctness. I really do. I feel safe in the knowledge that racist, sexist or homophobic remarks will not (technically) be tolerated. We are living in a still progressing society. The issue of the pay gap between men and women is still being recognised and protested against, and, despite occasional opposition, gay people can legally secure their rights as a couple. We are, however, far from living in an equal rights Utopia.
    http://theyorkerarchive.github.io/2012/www.theyorker.co.uk/news/worldblog/3159.html

  56. Happy, I’m not saying there are no problems amongst immigrants in MN. There are many, many problems they have to deal with such as crime, racism, lack of education but they’re here and they’re staying, get over it.

    Like Gov Mark Dayton says, this is not the MN of fifty or even thirty years ago, so if you don’t like it, leave.

  57. Happy, are you on those people that believe that we should not bring these immigrants in from Mexico and Africa b/c they have lower IQ also, and the lower IQ’d people commit more violent crime? (sorry Cory, I just had to)

  58. MC, do we require any other class of immigrants to obtain citizenship?

  59. And if immigrants break our laws, Hap, we will arrest, prosecute, jail, and/or deport them.

  60. Remember, Hap, I don’t embrace “diversity” as a core value. I don’t adhere to “anything goes” relativism. I’m telling right here that I’m willing to hold every American, native or newcomer, to certain absolute, universal standards. I’m saying we can make those standards clear, open the doors, and welcome all immigrants who want to come play by certain basic rules.

    Welcoming Syrian refugees or anyone else fleeing terror and oppression does not require us to change our universal standards. Quite the opposite: our American values compel us to welcome those refugees, and not act like Dale Dauman and other selfish, poorly informed current residents.

  61. Meet the Syrian boy soldiers. Killing machines. Will these refugees assimilate into a U.S. culture?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtniLfZkaW0

  62. These boy soldiers are no different than boy soldiers who have fought in all of our wars and conflicts right here in America. Yes, they can assimilate as they have in our own situations http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/children-in-the-civil-war/children-on-the-battlefield.html

  63. Perry, here we are again in our own Revolution http://uncpress.unc.edu/books/T-8870.html what would you have these boys do?

  64. And how about those dog gone Brits? Do we stop speaking English? http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zcvdhyc

  65. bearcreekbat

    Hap, cutting is cutting and when someone cuts the genitals of a child it hurts, even if you call it only a snip.

    In any event, FGM is not something you or I would wish upon any girl. Hence, I agree with Jenny, “that’s all the more reason we should welcome women and children refugees from those countries to the US. These women deserve much better.” Wouldn’t you also agree?

  66. mike from iowa

    I doubt their Aks will pass customs. In the US there is little for these former soldiers to fear,unless whitey wingnuts keep flapping their gums about how bad Muslims all are.

    Tell people enough times they are bad,bad,bad and they may start to believe and proceed to prove it to you. Then you get another wingnut self-fulfilling prophecy-we told you so.

  67. Porter Lansing

    Attn. young people,
    Do you see the old men on this thread and their negativity? Let me explain for you where it comes from. Old men begin to feel they’re no longer needed; impotent if you will. At that point many distort into thinking they’re your “protector”. They believe, at this elderly stage that USA, American society and especially women need them for protection because they’re wise and able to see things no one else can sense. That begets all these imaginary, fictional things old men believe might happen, even if empirical evidence points far away from that prediction. Being your wise protector brings a modicum of happiness to these contrary old fools and is about all they’ve left. It’s called a “protection erection” (also exhibited in young male gun-huggers) and it may well be the only erection they’re capable of, at will. Humor them kids and ladies but don’t believe all the negativity they spew. Aberdeen will be better with immigrants. South Dakota will be better with Democrats in Pierre. Women will be better when they’re in charge, as will we all. And USA will be better when these older, angry, white men are confined for eternity in a nursing home … unless there’s internet around. When confronted with their outbursts just turn your head, roll your eyes and don’t bother arguing. No one important listens to them, anyway.

  68. “Learn from history or you’re doomed to repeat it.”
    ― Jesse Ventura
    “Those that have learned from history, are doomed to watch those who haven’t learned to repeat it.”
    -MC

  69. Porter Lansing

    The scholars who participated were in remarkable agreement: while new immigrants are poorer than the general population and face considerable hardship, there is no evidence that they have reshaped the social fabric in harmful ways.
    America is neither less safe because of immigration nor is it worse off economically. In fact, in the regions where immigrants have settled in the past two decades, crime has gone down, cities have grown, poor urban neighborhoods have been rebuilt, and small towns that were once on life support are springing back.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/20/opinion/the-beneficial-impact-of-immigrants.html?_r=0

  70. mike from iowa

    That is not an original quote from the “Body”.

  71. mike from iowa

    Besides,MC, that should be directed squarely at your party-the ones that want to cut more taxes to balance the budget. Ronnie Raygun and dumbass dubya proved in spades that trickle down works only for the wealthy and no one else.

  72. Douglas Wiken

    I guess I don’t quite see how getting a paycheck and spending it adds anything to the economy. Some employer is making the contribution no matter who gets the pay and some customer is paying the employer. The aliens are not contributing anything more than any other employee. And, when they reproduce like rats in a cage, their welfare costs will exceed other employee social costs.

    I have listened to a lot of PC correctness on the wonders of diversity, and have yet to see anything that is the slightest bit like persuasive information. One assertion after another and very little useful information or anything else of value.

  73. Doug, the immigrants are helping sustain Social Security and Medicare since the Caucasians aren’t producing as many babies.

  74. Porter Lansing

    And they say city people are mean and hard. We got nothin’ on your Dakota values. Didn’t used to be this way, before you got cable FoxNews, y’all.

  75. Porter Lansing

    I believe this and it plays out worldwide. People are naturally liberal. You have to teach them to be conservative.

  76. Roger Cornelius

    Will Rogers never met Doug Wiken.

  77. Douglas Wiken

    Nope, I never met Will Rogers either, but I bet he was a lot more likeable than Roger C. who wears ignorance like a badge and has all the charm of a porcupine. Below a few things Will Rogers said:

    Never miss a good chance to shut up.

    Always drink upstream from the herd.

    There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Letting the cat outta the bag is a whole lot easier than putting it back.

  78. MC and Jesse Venture are right: we should learn from history. But which lesson?

    Do we look at the ugly history of immigrants coming to this continent, taking the original inhabitants’ land by deceit and force, killing off the Natives with guns and disease, and herding the remaining Natives into reservations and boarding schools to destroy their culture?

    Or do we look at 400 years of immigrants coming to this continent, building great cities and states, and forging the richest, freest country ever?

  79. Roger Cornelius

    The Jesse Ventura quote seems to be a little profound coming from a wrestler and really bad governor.
    There are several variations of the quote, I believe the original came from Margret Meade or some other noted scholar.

  80. Don Coyote

    Ventura’s quote is a really bad paraphrase of philosopher George Santayana’s:

    “Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

  81. I am starting to really enjoy this MC character who is running for republican office. quoting Jesse Ventura. Maybe we’ll get some wisdom from Sara Palin next. this electing actors business is really low brow. imo.

    porter, wth? are u seriously dissing wisdom from elders? not saying all we/they say is valid, but to discount years of life experience, if that is what you mean, just seems silly. still trying too hard to relate to hipsters? as said before, I enjoy much of what u post, but not always.

  82. sib-your “madville toilet” and “have a good day” seem inapposite. you offend all liberal posters here and at the same time complain that you receive flak for your many possibly inane statements, or statements I just don’t get, as you pointed out earlier (and I don’t mind that).

    finally, PC is much more preferable of a gut response than that of the pissy, uneducated ‘hipster’, TV lover, cubicle toiling, angry young parent in over her/his head, with uneducated angry narrow-minded parents cheering their child on, who all jump on trump’s wagon of hating that “lying beotch Hillary who is old”, agreeing with the older orange-haired, -faced, no-talent billionaire hate-monger TV “star”, because they “are SO sick of PC demands to THINK about consequences of what one says that offend others who are different, walking this road of life with us all.

    be f**king polite! :)

  83. Mr. Wiken, I am puzzled why you live in a capitalistic society. Here is your quote “I guess I don’t quite see how getting a paycheck and spending it adds anything to the economy. Some employer is making the contribution no matter who gets the pay and some customer is paying the employer”
    North Korea does have a system in which you may prefer, no one gets paid and all goes into shooting missiles into the air. They have no immigration policy, but they still reproduce in that environment.
    Even in the case of a public worker such as yourself, you still had an employee employer relationship. I thought that you should maybe brush up on the system in which you have lived, worked, was paid a paycheck and then got the benefits of retirement on. http://www.worldsocialism.org/english/what-capitalism Browse through that, it may help.

  84. happy camper

    I was attacked by microaggressions without triggers must get to safe space soon, but first I’ll say I had a good conversation yesterday with an older educator (50). A gay liberal he said this PC culture has developed because kids today think the world revolves around them. Everyone gets a star, everything is a right answer, 2 + 2 is no longer 4, and when a kid gets corrected in school rather than the parents backing them, the parents come in to say their kid didn’t deserve it. This is a related conversation from the past if things are different today or not. Teachers walk on egg shells.

    And for the record I love different ethnicity and have actually dated an adopted Syrian, but to think that people shaped in a misogynistic culture going back centuries will snap to political correctness when they enter our boarders is naive. I’ve never said they shouldn’t come.

    Gotta go to safe space now gotta go to safe space. Triggers, triggers, we need triggers Jenny called me bad name.

  85. Douglas Wiken

    Jerry, your capitalist-communist comparison is completely irrelevant. Explain how Joe Smith working 40 hours for the minimum wage for the last 40 years is significantly worse somehow than an immigrant with 7 kids on welfare still not speaking English after 2 or 3 years, but also earning the minimum wage.

    PC- correct dogma too often is separated from any real data or even the real world. In that sense it demonstrates a kind of tribal ignorance that is just as dangerous as is actual wilful ignorance to a society. It is the opposite side of trickle-down economics, etc.

  86. wiken-who knows, u might have a book, but I just don’t see in the big picture “a kind of tribal ignorance that is just as dangerous “. yesterday from 4:30 a.m. to 9 p.m. as the token white among 9 other active, kick-ass adults from 35 to 75 years old, we laughed and joked and sweated all day, but over lunch at a single table we talked in-depth politics and religion, bull-sheit flags were flown, and nary a hard feeling surfaced.

    the PC distraction is just another b.s. flag. if you can’t see the overall progress and value from the Lakota/Dakota/Nakota culture, something is wrong at “home”. ignorance was nowhere to be seen on this edge of the badlands rez.

    I cried, the 1st time in awhile at the richness of the day, driving with Wall lights in my rear view mirror and RC and EAFB twinkling in the purple west. a red letter day.

  87. Porter Lansing

    wth, leslie? Wisdom from elders such as the group posting here has no validity. Their belief that they know what’s going to happen is without basis and their attempt to “protect” the women and children is inept. These are the same angry, old, white men who told us Obama’s coming for your gun. The economy’s going to tank. Gas will be over $9 a gallon. Gay marriage will destroy USA. Under the black guy USA has a tripled stock market, 13 million new jobs, gas is now affordable, health insurance is now affordable and my guns are right where they belong. It’s easy to see, Leslie that these old men just hate people who aren’t white and what they predict about refugees in Aberdeen is about the color of the refugees skin and their religion. Hipsters? Silly? Let me know when these old men get a few predictions right but until then it’s just wrong to believe them.

  88. Porter Lansing

    Wiken, Happy Camper, MC, Coyote, Perry, Sibson … You can’t hide behind your term Politically Correct anymore than your heroes, Donnie and Teddy can. Politically correct means caring for people who have less but very much matter. It’s easy to invent a word to describe you haters. It’s a half pig and a half bigot. You’re pigots. You walk like pigs. You talk like bigots. And Leslie, no one who matters pays any attention to the pigots. even anonymous you who won’t capitalize your letters bong girl are in their camp most of the time because you won’t denounce the pigots Heh Heh Ho

  89. Roger Cornelius

    Be as political incorrect as you want to be and even implore your 1st Amendment Rights, but don’t be surprised if someone takes exception to your foul mouth and hatred.

  90. porter, decide which side u are on. u called me a racist some time ago and haven’t had the guts to reclaim any credibility. hip shooter u are.

    p.s. sober and sane (relatively) for 30 years. u?

    you’ll get better word processing when u deserve it and don’t consistently shoot yourself in the foot. I just told u I agree with much u say. that’s the second time I’ve said that to u since u stupidly called me a racist.

    its your inconsistency buddy. earn respect. censor yourself at times.

  91. Porter Lansing

    OK, You’re a racist, Leslie. Which foot? (if you only knew…lol) I’m talking about the things you say to me as Anonymous on another blog, bongover girl. Are you upset you’re not on the list, Roger? (implore means beg) I don’t beg for first amendment rights. I think you mean “exercise”.

  92. u porter are a fool. I suspected it early on but given your liberalism I remained open. sorry charlie

  93. Porter Lansing

    It’s a dead give away, Leslie when you use “I” twice in one sentence. Try thinking about yourself a bit more. It becomes you. Because … It’s all about you, bongette.

  94. mike from iowa

    Chicken Little keeps whining about refugees,eventually he/she/it will get it right once and then we have to listen to the “we told you so” chorus.

    I personally am much more afraid of ammosexuals with a bloated sense of their supposed rights to go armed with intent all over the place.

    Guns were made to kill. Let’s get it on.

  95. are u educated porter?

  96. happy camper

    I know for a fact Porter is wrong cause Leslie never believes anything I say. I’m the gay one that’s been turned in to Archie Bunker.

    This is a very good clip by Gad Saad, an evolutionary behavioural scientist orginally from Beirut who explains why Political Correctness is dangerous: http://tinyurl.com/zcqtf5k

  97. Porter Lansing

    Alles Opfas hier alter. oink oink Happy Camper. It’s common that no matter what the subject of the thread (refugees assimilating into Aberdeen and how you can welcome them) Leslie always ends up talking about herself. http://lonerwolf.com/the-conversational-narcissist/ L.W.I.Y.

  98. Mr. Wiken, was Joe single for those 40 years? If so, Joe was much better off than the immigrant with the 7 children. Joe got the opportunity to live in a one bedroom home with plenty of room and even a tee vee that he could actually afford cable. The immigrant had none of the American dream in his one room shack. His dream was to work is minimum wage job as it was much better than the one he had come from in the crap hole country that he used to live in. Joe went on to retire and continue to live in his one bedroom place with the comfort of knowing that the immigrants 7 children would get a job and support his ass while he lived out his days. The immigrant finally achieved his goal as well, productive Americans he calls his children that have gone on to be successful. Ask your neighbor governor in Nebraska about that as you both seem to have a lot in common. Even as big of an idiot as he is, his legislature would not allow him to close the deal and loose those valuable educated immigrant entrepreneurs (capitalists) that were raised by the immigrant.

    Immigrants are the future of a vibrant and successful society Mr. Wiken. Turn off that tee vee and get a passport to see some of the world. Go to far off places like Canada and see how that immigration thingy is working there. Get a book on economics and read the damn thing. It is all good man, don’t be so fearful. Your Social Security is safe and sound…thanks to immigrants who pay in one helluva lot more than they take out.

  99. Roger Cornelius

    Porter,
    What list are you referring to?

    If you have ever been to a tea party rally you will see many of those idiots ‘imploring’ their 1st Amendment Rights, as if President Obama took them away.

  100. Roger Cornelius

    Jerry, truth to tell, Wiken is a bitter old white rancher that has been squatting on a farm in the heart of tribal lands for decades.

    The irony is that his neighboring tribal members view him as an immigrant.

  101. bearcreekbat

    happy, the Gad Saad clip suggests two things: (1) he is a good artist, and (2) he contradicts himself without apparently realizing it.

    The self-contradiction flows from his “freedom of speech” argument. On the one hand he argues that “freedom of speech” means that we should be able to say whatever is on our mind at any time and at any place, and implies this has to be so without regard to the harm it causes to others.

    But then the whole point of his lecture seems to be that we cannot say whatever we want. If I want to assert that your argument is not “politically correct” I am on the wrong path according to Saad’s thesis, and I must repress any notion I have of what is “politically correct.” Other than that, however, I should be able to say any hurtful or hateful thing that comes to my mind. So Saad argues “freedom of speech” so long as we never say that someone else’s speech or argument is not politically correct.

    This self-contradictory argument has other flaws. For example, he doesn’t seem to be aware that “freedom of speech” here limits only the government, not private individuals. So he tries to compare governmental action in a repressive society, such as beheading someone for improper speech, with private conduct here, such as castigating or rejecting someone because we conclude their speech is vile (“politically incorrect”).

    He overlooks that in the USA, freedom of speech between private individuals is a two way street that includes the freedom to say hateful things to and about others, and the freedom to criticize speech we find hateful and, as you would say, “politically incorrect.”

    But his cartoon drawings during the lecture are quite nice.

  102. happy camper

    Wow Bearcat amazing to see how easily you can dismiss a Phd from Cornell without accepting any point he makes. You watched it obviously, but this forces me to accept some people just have unmovable positions. Interesting to see if Leslie watches it and makes a comment.

  103. mike from iowa

    Maybe the problem,HC,lies with the message and not bcb’s opinion.

    If someone disagrees,why should they be expected to agree?

  104. Douglas Wiken

    Tribal thinking is a general term which may or may not relate to Native American tribalism, or Arabian tribalism. It is the kind of thinking that cannot accept any data on global warming because of preheld religious or partisan beliefs which are common in a social group. Fear of being an outsider scares people into tribal correctness which for a group might be labeled political correctness. Below is a link with some pros and cons on the concept.

    https://www.quora.com/Is-tribal-thinking-one-of-humanitys-greatest-weaknesses

  105. bearcreekbat

    happy, Saad is obviously a smart well educated fellow with excellent drawing skills. I didn’t intend to dismiss his argument, rather my intent was to evaluate the argument and discuss this evaluation with another well educated thinker – you.

    To me the more interesting question is how do you assess my analysis of his argument in the video? Do you agree with me that his argument is internally self-contradictory? If not how do you reconcile his articulated notion of “free speech” means that we should be able to say anything without fear of being challenged, except we cannot or should not be able to say that we question the political correctness of speech?

    And do you see the problem Saad has by comparing the restrictions on our government with the actions of private commentators? That appears to be comparing apples to oranges to support an argument designed to persuade young people not familiar with the distinctions we make between the limitations on governmental action and the limitations on private behavior.

  106. happy camper

    Watch the video Mike. It seems to me BCB you have been extremely eager to find a reason to dismiss, to keep your own biases. His arguments go so far beyond what you’re trying to say he is wrong about, which would allow you to dismiss it all. I know this next one is very long, but Saad is talking with Bill Warner and they wonder why intellectuals have refused to study the true nature of Islam. Half way through it’s very interesting. https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=AwrBT_s4Rx1XlA0ACDJXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTB0N2Noc21lBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNwaXZz?p=Gad+Saad&fr=vmn&fr2=piv-web#action=view&id=39&vid=988a3de4f3b3af3f7136d32dfa6d7a6d

  107. Porter Lansing

    Wiken,
    You’re using Political Correctness and Politically Correct to justify what you think and say. How about a definition of PC. Or any of you other pigots who hide behind the shield and use it to criticize liberals. What exactly do you mean by politically correct and why is what you believe better? HMMMMM??? Or are you afraid to debate it’s merits and your faults?

  108. bearcreekbat

    happy, Thanks! I’ll check the longer video out and get back to you, probably tomorrow. But I am still interested in your evaluation of my initial analysis of his first post.

  109. Porter Lansing

    Saad’s commentary exhibits the exact guilt and back stroking that those with no filter or consideration of others crave. The essence of the discussion is about change and your conservative aversion to it; an almost “fear” of change, as was the title of this thread. You, of course, can say what you want. There’s no law against using offensive words. But we liberals have every right and some would say a duty to stand up to you and ridicule your insensitivity and boorishness. That’s what you hate. When people stand up to your bigotry and laugh at you. And you hate it because you know you’re wrong to do it. You invented the condescending term PC attempting to shield yourselves and salve your guilt. Refusing to stop offending is bullying and we all know what happens to bullies, Mr. Saad.

  110. Bonus Points… Guess what this language is and who is “Goyakalu”?

    Hint: Conquistador Francisco Pizarro

    Yinuwakikolu “Goyakalu” giyakotltu tengogne, chiji koxa. Mugletkotu tye psol-chijneko. Maleshawakni. Ga wa tengawakpotu gogo-mta mapshagagawakni. Ga wa wenu gogwaka-mta kaplewatya Giwekikaluru Goyakalunu. Wane china “Goyakalu”: Waneplu pokamlalu. Pokamlatkalu. “Goyakalu” getlu pokamlalu kigleru. “Goyakalu” kotspalatlu pokamlalu ga wa mapshagalu. Pokamlalu giwakata “Goyakalu” gogi, ga wa mapshagalu giwakata goyechchno.

  111. Close to the birthplace of Pizzaro at Trujillo

  112. mike from iowa

    Goyakulu sounds similar to Geronimo’s Indian name.

  113. happy camper

    Porter people like Saad, Dawkins, Harris are atheist liberals with logical scientific minds. They are speaking out against the PC culture because it is stifling dissent and learning. Let’s remember who has used insulting names on this thread and just created the word Pigot.

    BCB I will get back to you I’ve got a busy day.

  114. mike from iowa

    Happy-my hearing doesn’t allow me to listen to videos without a complete transcript. I remain loyal opposition. mfi

  115. Geronimo and his people would not trade with the Spanish no matter what the Spaniards tried to do, so their name for the Apache meant enemy. So I guess we will have to wait for Perry, the old anti immigrant himself, to strangulate, er translate. You can be assured that it will have something to do with keeping immigrants out of the US.

  116. mike from iowa

    Gogi (Grant) did the original version of the Wayward Wind.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD_4IzbsbOM

    She passed from this vale March 13th,2016. RIP

  117. Porter Lansing

    Mr. Camper … Your assessment of “logical scientific mind” is without validity or empirical example, thus just opinion. Is your learning or dissent stifled? Apparently not, judging by the suppositions you try to float on our river of popular opinion.
    Now you’ve taken the bait, Camper. Does being called names hurt your little feelings, Princess? Awwwww … That’s what you do to others continually while attempting to hide behind the shield “political correctness” to avoid valid criticism for it. You and Saad et al can be as insensitive to others as you choose to be but we “level-thinking” liberals have the right to laugh at you and hold you up as an example of poor choices made by the selfish.

  118. mike from iowa

    I got Geronimo’s name wrong. My next guess would have been a town in India and possibly whatever language Hindus speak.

  119. Porter Lansing

    P.S. ~ Iwadi jẹ pataki to ọlaju. ?

  120. Douglas Wiken

    https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/political-correctness-vs-freedom-of-speech.66052/

    There is both right-wing political correctness and left-wing political correctness. Both stifle actual discussion and sideline real data that conflicts with pre-set opinions. Science and political correctness are continually at odds. The Logic of Scientific Revolutions discussed both sides of “good” and “bad” conformity or political correctness in Science.

    Porter’s tripe is a primary example. His use of pejorative labels destroys his credibility. His claim of correctness for his blather, but demands of extraordinary “proof” of opposing positions is an extreme example of hypocrisy.

  121. Porter Lansing

    Uh huh … just ’cause you say so? Please.

  122. bearcreekbat

    happy, I listened to the complete Warner interview and found it interesting. Thanks for the link.

    I did not hear Saad or Warner say anything, however, that supports the notion that we need not make respectful, or what might be denigrated as “politically correct” statements. Indeed, near the end of the interview Warner made it very clear that he tries not to insult anyone with his language or tone and that he tries very hard to be respectful when discussing his ideas about Islam. Then they both emphasize that neither intends to attack people or groups of people or Muslims or anyone else. They want to discuss and criticize ideas rather than people.

    While Warner told an anecdote about being screamed at by a Muslim professor, neither he or Saad offered any study or scientific evidence to support the notion that they are not free to express whatever opinions they choose to express.

    Saad’s insistence, however, that he focuses on ideas rather than people seems to contradict his “political correctness” arguments. “Political correctness” is not a philosophy or a theology. Rather, it is a term invented by people who want cover when they are disrespectful and spread hatred against groups of people, rather than ideas.

  123. Porter Lansing

    Hear, hear BCB.

  124. hc-can u give me a more specific link? http://tinyurl.com/zcqtf5k

    mentioning me twice must meam you’d like me to watch it, which I will if I can find it. doh, I referred to myself seven times.

  125. happy camper

    OK Leslie here is the unabridged link. I think there is a backlash against the phrase Political Correctness by some on the left mistakenly thinking it came from the right wing only to criticize them. There’s a much longer history. When I lived in CA in 1990 my lefty friends would actually say “you can’t say that, it’s not politically correct.” By the way I did give you credit due and made an adjustment in one of my posts about race and biology which you must not have read. I just think the differences are minor compared to culture. There is a bit more than just skin color differences, but who cares, it’s how people relate to one another.

    https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=A0LEVz66mx5XfoMABUVXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTB0N2Noc21lBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNwaXZz?p=political+correctness+gad+saad&fr=vmn&fr2=piv-web#id=3&vid=527a9a63292e17f7b3aa81a479e20106&action=view

  126. bearcreekbat

    Douglas, your post at 12:47 provides a link stating: “Political Correctness (PC) is the communal tyranny that erupted in the 1980s. It was a spontaneous declaration that particular ideas, expressions and behaviour, which were then legal, should be forbidden by law, and people who transgressed should be punished.”

    First, this argument seems to completely ignore the restrictions the 1st Amendment imposes on our state and federal lawmakers.

    Second, can you provide any examples where someone has advocated the adoption of laws to forbid people from expressing “particular ideas” or “expressions?”

    Behavior, as referenced in your link, is a different animal than speech, and has more limited protection under the 1st Amendment. I don’t recall, and did not read in any of the links you provided, any discussion of otherwise protected behavior (such as in the Tinker case – wearing symbols) in the context of being politically correct or incorrect.

  127. happy camper

    BCB it’s better to take the gist of what you know someone is trying to communicate rather than try to find a technical detail to derail. If we want to move toward the truth that means we keep moving.

  128. mike from iowa

    http://tinyurl.com/gsjdz7o

    I fixed your link from 17:48, HC. No need to thank me.

  129. I can perhaps remember in 1990 embracing PC and being happy about it, though not specifically. I still am today. I have not kept up on the myriad morphs the phrase has been buffeted with by the right. see my post in the wrestling thread, too.

    happy, I have had some difficulty following your reasoning lately and sometimes think doth protest too much, but that may not be fair. if we get into it again on a fresh topic, I will stay on top of it and see if we can find mutuality. 130 posts here seems crazy on this topic. we have some “out there” posts by people like sibby, perhaps lora, and now porter, and I do not want to put you in that category unless deserved, imo:). u posted some personal stuff if I recall correctly that engenders empathy. and thank u for the mention of the credit, i’ll prolly come across that one day. the race thing is a simple idea which has DNA truth but perhaps u took some conclusions to a logical but broad extreme. I would like to continue to focus on our liberal v. conservative differences. I know and respect BCB’s scholarship and good will, and in posts assume if he finds a technical fail, he isn’t using it to poke u in the eye.

    btw, I am happy the mere invocation of dawkins in a cite or two brought the spot light on his scholarship. I like biologists.

  130. mike from iowa

    Stones died when Brian Jones died.

  131. Steve Sibson

    “Politically correct means caring for people who have less but very much matter.”

    No it means you follow Cory’s “universal standards” or get the hell out of Madville, because what you have to say is irrelevant.

  132. Roger Cornelius

    Finally! Sibson gets something right, he is irrelevant.
    He continually refers to Dakota Free Press as Madville even though the name change happened months ago. It appears that Sibson can’t keep up with change, including not blogging on sibbyonline since March 11,2016.

  133. Steve Sibson

    Roger, great job on keeping the spirit of Madville alive.

  134. happy camper

    Just like us: France airs video of Paris terrorist blowing himself up.

    Those crazy conservative Christians. What? He was Islamic? That just can’t be the reason.

    https://nypost.com/2016/04/26/france-airs-video-of-paris-terrorist-blowing-himself-up/