Toward the end of rooting out Trumpistan’s stubborn and embarrassing rejection of science and inaction in the face of this clear and present threat, I advocate making climate change and environmental action a central theme in Democratic campaigns in 2020. To that end, I nominate as the leader of that campaign Al Gore:
Save the world: Al Gore for President 2020
“Donald J. Trump is now the face of climate denial,” Gore said to Noah. “His voice is the voice of climate denial. And the vast majority of Americans – not to mention all around the world – have had it with the constant craziness.”
…”My only message would be resign,” Gore said. “I think everyone knows to discount what this current administration is doing and saying. They’ve made the EPA the CPA — the Coal Production Agency — instead of protecting the environment.”
…This experiment with Trump-ism is not going very well,” Gore told Noah. “By the way, in science and medicine, some experiments are terminated early for ethical reasons.”
However, the interview did not end on a sour note, but rather with Gore offering advice on how disillusioned Americans can help. Specifically, Gore cited the 2020 presidential election as an outlet for younger and disenfranchised populations to alter the future of the country and the planet for generations to come.
“There’s another election coming up in 2020,” Gore said. “There will be an opportunity for people who have had enough of this stuff to register and vote in large numbers and make a statement that we want to get back on track to the real American dream” [Ryan Mikel, “Former Vice President Al Gore Burns Donald Trump as the ‘Face of Climate Denial’,” Salon, 2018.11.29].
Al Gore was supposed to be the 43rd President of the United States. Let’s make him the 46th. Save the planet: Al Gore in 2020.
Do that if you want to lose – again. You should have learned your lesson with Billie Sutton moderates have a chance nobody likes Al Gore he has the charisma of an old shoe.
leslie
Amen. Gore for czar.
Donald Pay
I wouldn’t go so far as saying Gore should be the nominee, but I wouldn’t mind if he got into the race to push a rational agenda on climate change. I think, though, he is better suited to being the next President’s whisperer on climate issues. I think we need someone not of the Trump generation.
happy camper
Climate change is the new boogeyman for the left. The truth is science is never settled only politics in the progressive mind. We’ve seen medicine thrown on its ear, physics do an about face, every discipline over and over, but now magically we know just what to do that’s farcical. Marcon is getting his butt kicked over there was somebody talking about blindness??? The elites always forget about the working people.
OldSarg
I think the most dangerous part of supporting a Global Warming theory advocate is the movement has taken on such a fascist flare. Hell, Global Warming may very well be true but being we can’t even control the next thunderstorm to have the audacity of thinking somehow we can control the entire climate is silly but even then if you express those views the lemmings call you every name under the sun as if questioning a theory is somehow “unscientific”. A very fascist reaction.
Beyond that Gore is too easily dislikable as a person to win anything other than a few fools adoration.
jerry
Al Gore won in 2000, just like Hillary Clinton won in 2016. The Russians really won when they were not given their rightful offices. Think of all the blood and treasure wasted from Bush, and now to complete the bankruptcy, we have the Russian trump. We also have Short Rounds who has the 25 billion for a fakey wall but no more help for the farmer.
We could use Gore to Make America Geek Again. To be able to build a friggin LED bulb for goodness sake. Daktronics cannot complete a scoreboard without the lighting from China because we don’t know how to do that. Making a light bulb is to complex for us to think about. We now use Velcro to tie our shoes because we are too damn fat to bend over and get that job done. Gore would have us slimmed down like he did to become healthy again. GORE FOR PRESIDENT to gore the bloated government into fair trade and lasting peace.
OldSarg
“Al Gore won in 2000, just like Hillary Clinton won in 2016” Yep, and neither one ended up President. . .
As far as the Russians go the google CEO testified in front of Congress and said the Russians spent just over $4K on the last election. And being that Hillary spent a whole boatload more money just to lose she ain’t that good with money is she. . . Maybe we are better off having someone that understands the value of a dollar as president.
o
OldSarge: “Hell, Global Warming may very well be true but being we can’t even control the next thunderstorm to have the audacity of thinking somehow we can control the entire climate is silly . . .”
That is the whole point of the Global Warming discussion. That temperatures are going up is easy to prove — thermometers show that. The real point is the manmade contribution to that warming. The reliance on fossil fuel use and subsequent emissions are causing a man-made warming effect. Believe what you want, the scientific consensus is clear on that point. HOW we choose to act in the face of that knowledge is where politics SHOULD come in.
What I really have never understood about the right is the justification of a pro-pollution agenda — like somehow ending CO2 emissions means we are missing out on something good (we are not; pollution is bad). An honest discussion reminds us that this is nothing but another protection of the pro-wealth, greed agenda of the right where even the environment and public health ought to be set aside for the obscene collection of wealth by a few.
Donald Pay
Well, we see above the #anti-science contingent in full b.s. mode, but happy camper, at least, has a bit of wisdom. Yes, everything in science is contingent. Even our understanding of gravity can be overturned. Here’s the problem, though, for happy camper: there are also some things in science that have been well established and stood the test over time. He can, if he wants, prove our understanding of gravity wrong by climbing up a mountain and jumping off a ledge. Go right ahead. All you hurt is yourself, but maybe, just maybe, you will hover.
Now if you generate a “doubt industry” to convince some dumb people to climb that mountain and jump off that mountain because you convince them that we do not fully understand gravity, well, I think you are guilty of murder. There really is no science in the doubt industry. It’s all public relations work funded by the fossil fuel interests.
Climate change is not a “new boogeyman of the left.” First, it is not “new.” Second, it is not a “left” or “right” issue. Now there are solutions to the climate change problems we face that perhaps have ideological proponents. Cap and trade policies, for example, were proposed originally by conservative advocates. Carbon taxes have been mostly advocated by liberals. We can argue about each, but saying that greenhouse gases aren’t a major cause of current climate warming is like saying our theory about gravity has some holes in it.
Steve Hickey
No greater false prophet and hypocrite profiteer in the last century than Algore. And science?!, Cory it is only science to you if it supports your politics. When it comes to human life, you are a denier, and science is something you want keep away from women.
o
Steve, are you sure you are talking about “science?” You keep using that word; I’m not sure that word means what you think it means.
Donald I was being rhetorical to make a point science is the only thing we have which must include skepticism. Reactionary fear could lead to some dreaded policies global prosperity has improved which actually helps combat poor environmental practices. But it’s also true “accepted science” changes its mind on a dime (Oops!!!) so we have to be very wise about the policies.
Robert McTaggart
Once again, if it is indeed such a big problem (and I think that it is) then we need to stop throwing away the cards that will win the hand. That means we need the combo of nuclear, renewables, efficiency, and storage to work.
The Trump Administration recently made a push for coal and natural gas at one of the global climate conferences in Poland. While coal may become more efficient with new power plants, ultimately coal needs carbon capture to work and be cost effective for it to contribute energy while not adding to the climate issue.
Simply put, both the coal+gas only model and the renewables+gas only model will fail long-term without carbon capture and/or energy storage. Emitting less carbon per kilowatt-hour than today doesn’t mean much when in 30 years population growth and rising demands for energy mean we emit more total carbon than today.
Steve Pearson
Climate policy is the boogeyman of the Left. I’m open to science and seeing what our science efforts are showing but I’ve read opposing views. I don’t for a minute believe it’s proven and the coming danger the Left spouts.
And as long as I see Mr. Gore and all of you science wielding people flying planes, driving cars and so on I will continue to be skeptical.
Again, not saying it isn’t true but there is plenty of “reasonable doubt” flying around to not just jump in all for it.
bearcreekbat
Donald nails it as usual. Science would not be science if scientists were unwilling to revise their conclusions based on new evidence, whether relating to gravity, human contributions to climate change, evolution, or any other matter studied.
The doubt industry is totally different. In another thread Jason cited a variety of sources to support the notion that humans don’t contribute to climate change. In reviewing his links, however, I recall no source that based a contrary position on a study of the questions they addressed.
Instead, Jason’s linked sources typically asserted flaws in the work of climate scientists and those reporting on the findings of these scientists. For example, one study attempted to prove that “less than” (ultimately approximately only 90%) of scientists, rather than 97-98% as reported, concluded that human activity contributed to detrimental climate change. There was no analysis or reference to any study showing that the remaining 90% were somehow mistaken in their analysis or conclusions, yet this was a major article relied upon by climate change deniers.
Conspicuously missing was any affirmative research on the underlying issues, namely, whether human activity contributes to detrimental climate change and whether by modifying these activities we can slow such change. And Jason seemed to be simply following talking points of the professional doubters, as his arguments and linked parroted similar apologists for the denial industry.
It clearly is valid to question and criticize scientific methods, studies and conclusions and identify any errors, yet it will rarely, if ever, follow that the opposite fact to what has been studied must be true or false merely because of identifying some mistake or weakness. Instead, conclusions about the underlying issues need independent evidence, typically absent missing from the doubt industry’s links, studies and arguments.
OldSarg
o~ “That temperatures are going up is easy to prove — thermometers show that.” please provide proof. . . If there is a location, a link, a site or a book of the imperial evidence demonstrating the world temps are going up I’ll be all on-board the Global Warming ship.
Remember when they kept talking about the pacific islands of Micronesia and the Solomon were all sinking? Those freaking islands have turned around and gotten larger but guess what? The islanders are still petitioning the UN for more money from countries such as the USA because their islands that are not sinking are sinking. . . must be science denyers. . .
Hap, comparing the Sutton run for SD Gov to the 2020 Presidential race is not fruitful. It is possible that we can bring 51% of South Dakota voters to their senses and get them to reject Donald Trump at the polls as surely as they would reject him if he walked into any bar at the Four Corners and started running his mouth, but it is far more probable that we can get a majorities in an Electoral College majority of states—including, this time, a Florida threatened by rising seas—to vote for a candidate who acknowledges science, reality, and the need to save the planet from fossil-fuel-fueled ostrichism.
What do you call politicalised and falsified science in the hands of globalists who make poorer people poorer and enrich themselves and the industries they invest in while burdening the workforce in struggling nations with costs and job cuts and debts and forcing stupid eco-fad lightbulbs and other feel-good pseudo-science suggested (unproven) remedies on the populace? There is an unbroken thread from Darwin to social Darwinism to eugenics to various alarmisms (population, climate)…. let’s kill people to save the planet. What do you call it Cory when one group tries to control another? Algore didn’t just invent the internet, he wrote the bible on all these things. A dark soul indeed.
jerry
China may save us from ourselves. ”
“The UN secretary general, António Guterres, has made a dramatic intervention to revive flagging climate talks in Katowice, Poland, by flying back to the conference and preparing a personal call to the Chinese president, Xi Jinping.
US accused of obstructing talks at UN climate change summit
“We’re running out of time,” he told the plenary. “To waste this opportunity would compromise our last best chance to stop runaway climate change. It would not only be immoral, it would be suicidal.”
The United States is now one of the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse. Boy, am I proud or what. The US, Russia, The Saw Bones people of Saudi Ariabia and the powdered bums of Kuwait.
jerry
Gore would bring us good paying jobs and also jobs that show we can make a flippin light bulb. Geesh people, is this it.
Steve: “What do you call politicalised and falsified science in the hands of globalists who make poorer people poorer and enrich themselves and the industries they invest in while burdening the workforce in struggling nations with costs and job cuts and debts and forcing stupid eco-fad lightbulbs and other feel-good pseudo-science suggested (unproven) remedies on the populace?”
Assuming that what not rhetorical, my answers would be: 1) The GOP, 2) The Fossil Fuel Industry, and 3) Most-All Organized Religions
happy camper
A friend explained how Groupthink happens in science: It’s about grants! It’s about the money! He worked in Washington in an area that decided who got the money, which schools, etc, how to funnel it down. He is a liberal Chemistry professor from top schools but quit after being so discouraged by the politics of who would get the money, and how. There was definately an agenda and a way to write the grants, so even though scientists should be the most logical among us, they are still being people needing acceptance of their peer group to get jobs, bring their school money and recognition, and say and do the right things to survive. And even though he is so much smarter than I am I could poke holes in his logic these smart people are not right all the time!!!
After Trump Cory we’re gonna want the anti-Trump someone young, hopeful, and moderate no more old fogies out with Pelosi, McConnell, and Schumer too!
jerry
Pelosi and Schumer spanked trump like the soiled brat he is. Damn, that was funny. McConnell just legalized hemp! Old fogies with hemp stogies.
o
American industry and growth was once fueled by innovation. What economic rift made the US reject that cause, and double-down on regressive energy technology? Why did the US decide the path to the future was to regress to late 19th century energy production methods and supplies (supplies dominated by foreign holdings)?
Where will the U.S. be when the transition (the inevitable, world-wide transition) happens to the post-fossil fuel economy? Wake up! This is all about the current 1% oligarchs cementing their profit margins and wealth to coast the rest of history while everyone else is left behind. When both Steves, and OldSarge, and the rest of the GOP faithful speak of political agendas pushing science, this is the money trail that exposes the true motives of the actual false science of climate denial — no matter the cost in human life or environmental degradation.
Jason
This study will show that increasing seismic activity for the globe’s high geothermal flux areas (HGFA), an indicator of increasing geothermal forcing, is highly correlated with average global temperatures from 1979 to 2015 (r = 0.785). By comparison, the correlation between carbon dioxide loading and global temperatures for the same period is lower (r = 0.739).
Please explain to us how humans are going to control seismic activity.
Robert McTaggart
What if those “oligarchs” are investing in the renewable technologies? Should we skip renewables in that case? If there is profit, they will go there.
mike from iowa
Can I trust OMICS, iMedPub, Conference Series, Allied Academies … https://www.researchgate.net/…/Can_I_trust_OMICS_iMedPub_Conference_Series_Allie…
However, the scientific credibility of the company is very questionable [4-6]. OMICS has … Article Predatory Publishing – Experience with OMICS International.
OMICS International | Open Access Journals https://www.omicsonline.com/
OMICS International through its Open Access Initiative is committed to make genuine and reliable contributions to the scientific community. OMICS International …
Medical Journals Have a Fake News Problem – Bloomberg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/…08…/medical-journals-have-a-fake-news-problem
Aug 29, 2017 – With help from drug companies, Omics International is making millions … its conferences, bringing Omics both credibility and the funds to grow.
OMICS International | Open Access Journals List https://www.omicsgroup.org/
OMICS International is currently managing more than 700 High impact, Open … Access Initiative is committed to make genuine and reliable contributions to the …
A Peek Inside the Strange World of Fake Academia – The New York … https://www.nytimes.com/2016/…/fake-academe-looking-much-like-the-real-thing.ht…
Dec 29, 2016 – OMICS International is a leader in the growing business of academic publication fraud. It has created scores of “journals” that mimic the look …
Quality and Reliability in Analytical Chemistry | OMICS International https://www.omicsonline.org/…/quality-and-reliability-in-analytical-chemistry-2471-2…
Quality and Reliability in Analytical Chemistry. Maceiras R. Assistant Professor, Department of Chemical Engineering, Defense University Center, Spain. Visit for …
Operational Procedures and Reliability for Safe … – OMICS International https://www.omicsonline.org/…/operational-procedures-and-reliability-for-safe-drinki…
Citation: Bhatt SM, Shilpa (2015) Operational Procedures and Reliability for Safe Drinking Water. J Bioremed Biodeg 6:e160. doi:10.4172/2155-6199.1000e160.
mike from iowa
Troll, a lot of seismic activity comes from man made fracking.
Drumpf wants to reclassify nuke weapons waste as low level so it is easier and cheaper to dispose of. From Newsweek.
jerry
Geesh mfi, NOem and the rest of the outlaws will be lining up to push these dumps in South Dakota. With a more than compliant and eager trumpian legislature, they may finally achieve their Lone Tree goals.
Donald Pay
Jason,
Omics International is a well-known publisher of fake science papers. Omics generates these fake journal to fool the naive people, such as yourself, into believing that these are real scientific papers. One tip off from your link is this:
“Received April 02, 2016; Accepted April 21, 2016; Published April 25, 2016”
A truly peer-reviewed journal would not have a 19-day turnaround on a subject such as this. Open source journals have their place, but you have to be very careful.
The Federal Trade Commission has brought deception charges against Omics for claiming their on-line journals to be peer-reviewed when they are not and using the names of various academics without consent.
In essence, you are citing the purveyor of fraudulent science. Not a good way to make your point.
happy camper
Related to waste disposal my brother in law worked at a Superfund site in Washington state. He had never seen so much corruption in his entire career they make very little progress but always get more money from Congress. Have no idea if it’s a wise thing to change those classifications, but be aware some of these huge government contractors are only out to soak more tax dollars they don’t really care about the environment, just the money, so don’t be naive on that end either. It’s usually about the money.
Donald Pay
Happy camper makes another good point. Sure, scientific research requires grant applications, which get screened and recommended for funding by other scientists. It can be political in some areas. Certainly, Jon Goffman’s work on the health effects of radiation was stymied by the nuclear industry. Work by scientists on the impacts of cigarette smoking was stymied by the cigarette industry. Work on the impacts of pesticides has been strangled for years by the chemical industry. Research on the gun violence now is being hindered by Trump, Republicans in Congress and their minders in the NRA. Agent Orange impacts on soldiers and Vietnamese civilians was stopped for a time by Dow Chemical Company. And the fossil fuel industry has stopped a lot of research on the impacts of burning coal and other fossil fuels on mercury pollution, sulfur oxides pollution, and greenhouse gases. There’s a pretty clear pattern here. When industry profits are involved, there will be serious efforts to politicize, hinder and stop money going to scientists conducting research in this field, especially if the results are likely to open up a can of worms for industry.
Robert McTaggart
Yes, I saw that Mike. Regardless, we do need to deal with the high-level waste at places like Hanford. We have punted on that for too long.
Donald Pay
Happy camper makes another good point about Superfund Sites. Look at the Agnico-Eagle corruption at the Gilt Edge Superfund Site in the Black Hills. Total corruption. What is needed is to put the public in charge. The Trump Administration is engaging in huge corruption in Superfund programs. They are doing shoddy work, claiming things are cleaned up and washing their hands of the problems. The problems will linger. Guess who isn’t conducting oversight of these matters? Sen. Rounds. He’s supposed chair of Superfund Subcommittee and have oversight of this program. He’s done exactly zero, and let’s the corruption go on and on while nothing gets properly cleaned up.
Happy camper, start complaining with Rounds. Maybe you can get him to do his job.
o
Jason, you again show that your understanding of science is only political. Before I answer your question, what does “R = XXXXX” mean in your evidence? I will not discuss science with you until you show at least a cursory understanding of statistical data.
By all means Gore should get in the race and see what happens. I doubt I’ll support him, but must admit the way he handled his election loss now stands in stark contrast with Trump who even WON his. He took the result in stride and found a new focus. I’d welcome his voice in the race.
OldSarg
o~ I’ve taken a look at both links. At https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/ where the GISS data is reported ad they tell us they adjust the temperature data. So, I look up the adjustment and they adjust the temperatures for an assortment of reasons but the raw temperatures have actually fallen since 1980. Here take a look they explain it: https://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/faq/#q203 It might be even worse. This is on the page: “What may be done before combining those data is to increase the new data or lower the old ones until the two series seem consistent.” That makes it appear they are actually increasing the more recent data and lowering the recordings from the past. Dude, this isn’t helping. . .
This is my whole deal with articles, information and opinions. When I asked about empirical data or studies that is what I was looking for. When it turns out our own NASA is adjusting the raw data to give us a different picture it makes you start to question everything the government is telling us. Remember that study everyone was quoting about the 97% of “scientist” agreeing climate change was due to human factors? Did you ever read about the “actual” study? It was actually a study that reviewed a survey of scientist. It was a review of scientific papers by searching 928 abstracts for the words “climate change” then deciding if they thought those papers supported human caused global warming. No study, nothing actually scientific, no test but that 97% was tossed around for years like it was gospel. I just don’t know what to believe.
Debbo
Let’s have a different Democratic pres candidate, but Al Gore for the EPA and make sure he is Listened To!
You deniers would let ensuing generations fry, including your descendants. Shame on you.
happy camper
The thing is Donald in my two examples my friend was in Washington during the Obama years he saw a liberal bias it can go either way. He was disillusioned he thought it was going to be his dream job. My brother in law also saw corruption during the Obama years and before these huge projects don’t have enough government oversight by qualified people there has to be more accountability but the money is huge. It’s money not either party there is good news too beyond our nature of procrastinating and lamenting: “Many people feel pessimistic about the state of the environment. But there are also many who hold a more optimistic view, believing that human ingenuity can help preserve the environment. The latter view is sometimes called ‘enlightenment environmentalism’ or “ecomodernism.” https://humanprogress.org/article.php?p=1462
China is so far ahead of the United States in clean public transportation fleets like in this city of 12 million! Al Gore will make it happen for us the US, to find our way to kick the Koch Brothers and Exxon Mobile to the curb.
“You have to keep your eyes peeled for the bus at the station in Shenzhen’s Futian central business district these days. The diesel behemoths that once signalled their arrival with a piercing hiss, a rattle of engine and a plume of fumes are no more, replaced with the world’s first and largest 100% electric bus fleet.
Shenzhen now has 16,000 electric buses in total and is noticeably quieter for it. “We find that the buses are so quiet that people might not hear them coming,” says Joseph Ma, deputy general manager at Shenzhen Bus Group, the largest of the three main bus companies in the city. “In fact, we’ve received requests to add some artificial noise to the buses so that people can hear them. We’re considering it.”” https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/dec/12/silence-shenzhen-world-first-electric-bus-fleet
We are loosing the production of electric cars to China with the biggest reason, 400 million middle class citizens there! While our middle class sinks like an anvil, these guys are doing much better. But we are fatter, so we got that going for us, which is a good thing…right?
Al Gore should lead this discussion in 2020. He is the most expert and articulate Democratic explainer of real environmental science. Forget Jason and OS: we need to rally rational, non-political people with facts, stand for science, and take this country back.
America was built on science and rationalism. To see America laughed at in Poland and around the world, to see America representing the forces of selfish ignorance and crass corporatism, is not only embarrassing but gravely dangerous to our ability to remain a global leader. We must reverse that destructive trend. That’s why Al Gore in 2020 matters.
happy camper
He’s old news.
Jason [2]
We are debating climate change? Perfect example of American Exceptionalism. Only in America …
Porter Lansing
Jason … This is the fourth time I’ve shown you this data. It’s true that a fool can deny anything, thus nothing (by definition) is undeniable. You’re a complete contrarian and I don’t believe you are open to scientific data.
~ NASA says that it’s 95% provable that humans are causing global warming.
~ Also, the adjustments made to temperature models are due to newer technologies coming online and in actuality have shown less warming than is probably true. https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
grudznick
Do you know what would help postpone any non-natural causes of global warming? More Nuclear Power. Plus, we learn more #4Science with nukes than with just burning black tar and rocks.
jerry
Porter, jason cannot open links. The only link he opens is his paytroll account
I know, Jerry. I think he’s boycotting me since I threatened to turn his personal information over to the Muslim Brotherhood. sheeeeesh
Robert McTaggart
For proof, I would check out the isotopic content of the carbon in the atmosphere for the connection of human impact to climate change.
Carbon from living organisms has a certain abundance of Carbon-14, which is naturally-occurring and produced when particles from the sun and elsewhere hit our atmosphere. Carbon that has spent millions of years underground will not have any Carbon-14 left in it because it would have radioactively decayed.
Moreover, as plants seem to prefer their carbon in the form of C12 instead of C13, burning fossil fuels (i.e. dead plants) will release more Carbon-12 into the air. So the ratio of C13 to C12 should decrease as the amount of C12 increases.
Guess what isotopic ratio has been decreasing since it has been measured?
Donald Pay
Happy Camper,
When you get to the Superfund stage of cleaning up poisoned sites, you are dealing with the most complicated and toxic sites with huge human health and environmental implications, and you can’t cut corners. The Obama years were pretty good, as far as Superfund cleanups, especially considering that Republicans cut EPA funding in this area leaving considerable staff shortages. They were so good and so corruption free that former EPA head Pruitt tried to take credit for the Obama-era cleanups. A lot of the people in industry think dirty and quick cleanups are enough, and that’s what the Trump Administration has been pursuing. A number of local communities are complaining about the shoddy work the Trump Administration accepts. What is going to happen is that these cleanups aren’t going to be adequate and the costs are going to be double or triple when they have to be redone.
grudznick
Mr. Pay, in your opinion what sort of good and corruption free or quick and dirty nasty clean-up is being done up there at that Galena place near that Wild Bills hamburger joint? Good and corruptions free, or dirty and corruptions full? It is certainly not quick and dirty. It seems long and dirty at the least.
Troy Jones
Christmas 2018 & 2019 present- Algore as Democrat nominee. Never even crossed my greatest imagination. Please Santa. I promise to be good.
Donald Pay
Well, Grudz, the Gilt Edge Site will never be fully cleaned up in my opinion. It has lots of very serious problems from multiple causes, but at least no one is adding to them with additional mining right now.
Gilt Edge will be just like the Whitewood Creek site that was “cleaned up” to a certain degree, but which leaves a lot of buried tailings in place. Disturbing those tailings to clean them up was thought to be more dangerous than letting them stay in place without further disturbing the area. The tailings are supposed to be protected from disturbance, but a lot of stupid people want to mine those tailings so they can make money while poisoning the water, and with Pirner at DENR nothing is safe.
The current attempt to deal with a hundred years of buried cadmium-laced tailings at Gilt Edge is in that same vein. It is just an excuse to let a Canadian miming company mine gold on the site, while bribing EPA and DENR. They aren’t really interested in actual clean up.
In the case of Gilt Edge waste rock problems they will be happy if they can treat the water for a hundred or more years. Maybe they can put a cap on the waste rock and slow the process.
I’m sure they could clean the site up completely by carting away all the toxic tailings, but doing so would have considerable environmental impacts of its own.
I’d be interested to see if there is a bacterium that has evolved in the old tailings that might be able to capture cadmium. But Agnico isn’t going to do anything innovative. They just want to mine gold.
jerry
Christmas 2020 Al Gore as president> I will be very very good.
Porter Lansing
Howdy, Troy. Missed you, man. Don’t be such a stranger. Your opinions and intellect are always interesting. Merry Christmas.
Roger Cornelius
It isn’t necessary to be a scientist or to be able to interpret scientific data to have respect for our home, planet earth.
Most Americans take care of their homes and personal property, climate change deniers can’t understand the simplicity of maintaining a clean planet because it is the right thing and responsible to do.
grudznick
Very interesting, Mr. Pay, thank you.
The part about a bacterium evolving to eat the cadmium is particularly intriguing to an old mutant fellow like myself.
happy camper
But no Donald, my own family told me there was huge waste I will believe him he’s boots on the ground.
Robert McTaggart
Perhaps there are some plants that bioaccumulate cadmium and other metals. I think you can then burn the plant material for energy and the heavy metals stay in the ash (much like what happens with coal…and sometimes that biomass can be co-fired with coal).
Robert McTaggart
Perhaps there are some plants that bioaccumulate cadmium and other metals. I think you can then burn the plant material for energy and the heavy metals stay in the ash (much like what happens with coal…and sometimes that biomass can be co-fired with coal).
leslie
All i can say is Scotsman Hickey has replaced zed with the English “s”. Playing with his belly button I guess, eh Zteve :)
Gore for Climate czar, like i said.
I’ve also always said Grdz must be from the northern hills. As in Galena deadwood/lead. I think he is a former legislator too. The whole Talleys grvy taters bit is a scam. Wipe yer chin but thx for admitting Trump and Ravensborg are unqualified. Can I have your MAGA cap?
The rest of the right wing posters have been pretty well destroyed. Exemplary work today everyone. Wack-a-mole!
jerry
While the United States dithers with coal and fossil fuels, China moves rapidly ahead. If the US does not get on track with education for our future, then the future belongs to China as they get it.
“Chinese consumers are on track to buy more than 1 million electric vehicles (EVs) this year after sales grew 53% in 2017. And China’s leadership is charting a course to an all-electric future, targeting 2 million annual EV sales by 2020 and a complete ban on internal-combustion engines, which officials predicts will happen before 2040.
China’s EVs enthusiasm is driven by domestic considerations, but by committing to electric transportation, the world’s largest vehicle market will accelerate global EV adoption.
The rare earths and other critical elements needed for EV batteries are not necessarily rare, but it is difficult to separate them out from everything else without a lot of chemistry (i.e. strong acids).
We would not depend on China so much if either a better chemistry or no chemistry were required in the extraction of the critical elements. But today we are not willing to do what is necessary for this chemical extraction in the U.S.
By the same token, they are willing to do the chemical processing necessary for a lot of solar panels too.
Doc, you are sounding much like Al Gore in your regard towards the environment. Riddle me this then, why do good folks like yourself never comment about the absurdity of CAFO runoffs and the dangers they pose to our health? I look at posts that occur here and do not see why that is. Regarding Rare Earth, yes, now this is the Holy Grail but as you note, chemistry and the processing of metallurgic substances, could be the next Holy Grail. We will not find those links and those discoveries without an educated populace that is driven to make it all work. Kind of like President Kennedy and the moon shot.
Jerry, a Gore 2020 campaign based on an overarching concern for the environment would open the door for South Dakota Democrats to unify their message around local environmental concerns like CAFO runoff and jeopardization of drinking water, issues that seem to have traction with voters across the SD political spectrum.
I’m not debating climate change, Jason [2], any more than I’m debating gravity or evolution. Al Gore needs to run, rally the folks who accept science, reality, and clear and present dangers, and win.
They need them to run all of their EV’s they are going to buy.
Jason
There is nothing to debate Cory. Science has not proven humans can control the environment.
jerry
Great link jason, and proves the point that government stimulus has to be involved to provide work. These plants will be only used, if ever, for a very limited amount of time while renewable energy will take their place.
From your link:
“However, some researchers believe that the building of these plants has more to do with boosting the local economy in China than with boosting emissions.
“Coal power plants run only about half the time in China, and one could argue the new capacity is not needed,” said Glen Peters, from the Centre for International Climate Research in Oslo, who was not involved with the report.
“The new coal power plant builds are most probably about keeping the economy ticking along, particularly from a provincial government perspective, rather than being needed for future electricity generation.””
o
Jason: “R is the correlation.”
Right, and your paper listed the correlation of two actors: seismic activity and carbon loading (manmade activity) and put the correlation of both roughly equal (in statistical correlation terms).
So my answer to “how do we stop seismic activity?” is we do not. Instead we address the factor of identical correlation – manmade warming due to carbon loading of the atmosphere — we do that b predicting that carbon loading, reducing that fossil fuel pollution, that fossil fuel consumption. That we have ABSOLUTE control over.
You are like the obese person that eats 50 Twinkies a day and has a thyroid problem; then comes to the conclusion that a thyroid problem causes weight gain, so might as well keep eating the Twinkies.
We fix what we can; we address that which we have control over. Your statistics indicate that will be enough.
o
sorry, we do that by preventing — not predicting.
jerry
Want to give young bloods involvement in their future, go green baby.
“”By Wednesday, the burgeoning effort to establish a select committee in the House of Representatives on a Green New Deal ― essentially a plan to make a plan ― picked up its strongest endorsements yet, netting support from the co-chairs of the 78-member Congressional Progressive Caucus and from the first labor union to back the proposal. At least 35 incoming or sitting House members support the resolution, as do four senators.
The proposal, championed by Rep.-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.), came as grassroots groups like the Sunrise Movement and Justice Democrats organized protests at the Capitol, with young activists occupying Democratic leaders’ offices and urging lawmakers to pledge their support. Nearly 150 people were arrested Monday in the groups’ largest demonstration yet.
Bah zing, even us old clinkers can grasp climate change…if someone takes the effort to talk with us about it.
Richard Schriever
happy camper – you realize, don’t you, that “he saw a liberal bias” is an example of a biased observation – not an evidence supported conclusion. I.E., the conclusion you have reached on the biases of scientific research is based on a biased observation, or what is called in the scientific lexicon – “experimenter bias”. It’s a well known and well understood phenomenon and there are research design methods to dealing with it.
Richard Schriever
happy camper – “My brother in law also saw corruption…..” So, did he act like a responsible citizen and blow the whistle? Or is it once again simply a matter of being a biased observer?
happy camper
Yes Richard but he was a liberal making observations in his workplace. We all have biases but should attempt to be as objective as possible even so there’s a lot of junk science out there. That said we have to trust our observations to some degree or we wouldn’t get out of bed in the morning the problem is some people’s biases (which go unquestioned or even embraced) motivate them to get out of bed in the morning, write a blog, run for office, kill people, etc. I might argue that biases are the most dangerous thing we’ve got rolling around in our head.
Richard Schriever
Still a biased observation. But you go ahead and base your conclusions on all the biased anecdotal observations you like – they will all be as equally biased.
Richard Schriever
Our biases inform us to lead biased lives – biased in our own favor. This is true for all human individuals. Biases are NOT conducive to group success however. There-in lies the reason for the scientific approach/method – which requires structured investigation designed specifically to eliminate as much of the individual bias as possible. That is accomplished not simply through designing single observational processes (experiments) as the way to gain understanding. It also requires that MULTIPLE observations by MULTIPLE observers find some sort of INDEPENDENT agreement with the conclusions via repetition, discussion, consensus. And even then – the mathematical analysis contains PROBABILITY (not certainty. You, on the other hand – as a non-scientist – are perfectly willing to accept the admittedly biased, emotionally informed observations of two individuals to lead you to a certain conclusion. Do you begin to see the problem here?
happy camper
Your right Richard, anything not measurable is subject to bias.
Porter Lansing
HC wisely point out, “I might argue that biases are the most dangerous thing we’ve got rolling around in our head.” It’s “tribe think” and it’s being fostered and promoted by a President with a mission to undo all the progress made by his predecessor. SD must be a very hard place to live. It’s a minority state with a majority of “tribe speaking” voters. Also, about ten years behind the times and continually on the wrong side of history. What’s the attraction? Fear of new things and ideas?
happy camper
I do see the problem Richard, I have to know those I trust even then with a grain of salt, but what are your biases? Are you accepting Donald’s position that the Obama adminstration was not very corrupt because that’s what you want to think and just pretending to be a logical person, or extending this view to all walks of life?
happy camper
But Porter, what about Tribe Think from the left? Are you a part of that? Similar to what you see on the right? To what extent do reinforcements blind your vision? My continued criticism of opinion news, anything outside of “objective reporting” admittedly a difficult thing but also held in high regard for that attempt, is propaganda.
mike from iowa
Electricity is measurable and it is subject to bias or it wouldn’t flow.
Richard Schriever
Jason – “….humans cannot control the environment.” What is farming if not controlling the environment (what plants grow where and when, where water comes from and where it is routed to – irrigation). What is agriculture if not the root of all science? Seriously – you are a total miscreant.
Richard Schriever
happy camper – as a scientist – I go to great lengths to exclude my personal biases from my consideration of policy issues. That includes political biases – and ESPECIALLY my biases toward any individual person. My support or resistance to particular policies has nothing to do with political party or party member.
Richard Schriever
hc – science tells us there is no such thing as an “objective” stance/opinion/reporting. Applying scientific skepticism to all things is a daunting task. It doesn’t allow for total acceptance (faith in) anything – ever. There is ALWAYS a chance (sometimes extremely small) one might be wrong. The existence of a miniscule chance of error is no reason to simply sit still like a frozen (or boiled) frog. Where human intellect comes into play – deciding when enough evidence is enough to act on – always decide in favor of long-term species-perpetuation – not short term gains. Such behavior has been embodied in the concept of self-sacrifice. It’s FEATURED in modern western civilization as Christianity.
happy camper
I’m sorry Richard, but you’re not believable: “My support or resistance to particular policies has nothing to do with political party or party member.” By the fact you use the word “nothing” shows you’re in denial of your own biases. If you were truly in touch with them you’d know all you can do is minimize. If you are a scientist, you’re showing the arrogance of science that causes the mistakes.
Donald Pay
We’ve got happy camper making charges of Obama Administration corruption in the Superfund program, but he seems not to know any details. I’m not sure I can believe much of what he’s claiming. He says some relative saw it, but this relative didn’t do the right thing and try to resolve it, whistle blow on it or anything but complain to happy camper, apparently. I don’t know if I believe any of his story. He didn’t say where this was, so we can’t see if anyone has been charged.
If he’s claiming that Superfund wastes money, I suppose it’s like any other government program that uses private contracting. Privatizing the work of governmental generates lots of waste. Look at the borehole project, where the government paid for public relations firms to help sell the project to local communities. WASTE. But this is garden variety government-private contractor waste. If happy camper is against this kind of waste, I can support efforts to rein it in, but he won’t give specifics so we are left with not much.
I’m not sure why happy camper didn’t email Sen. Rounds, who is supposed to have had some oversight responsibility for Superfund, but has done absolutely nothing on the issue. When you have lazy and incompetent people doing oversight, you can expect waste and corruption.
You can google “corruption in Superfund,” and quite a number of articles pertaining to the Trump Administration, not many in the Obama Administration.
The corruption I’ve seen in Superfund cleanups involved attempts by Williams Pipeline to get out of its responsibility to clean up spills in Sioux Falls. It whined continuously about the trouble they had to go through to actually clean up the toxic mess they caused and tried to game the system. They didn’t have much luck once they got stuck in the Superfund Program at the suggestion of Governor Mickelson. That was the best thing Mickelson did for the environment.
jerry
camper sits out in the middle of nowhere plus a couple of miles, and talks trash without proof. Sounds like a trump and quacks like a trump. No links, just blather. You know, we still do not know the details of the last major oil pipeline leak. Yup, that bad boy even made national news and yet…crickets. How big was it? natta
Porter Lansing
Happy Camper predictably asks about my tribe’s bias, which is absolutely as strong and ingrained as his tribe’s bias.
Dakota Free Press is mostly a tribal battleground.
~ One large difference is the process the tribes use to address criticism. My tribe first looks to see if the criticism is from a valid and neutral information source. Often (on DFP) highly biased and invalid sources come from the other tribe and are dismissed by us as unfactual and invalid. If the criticism toward my tribe is valid, then the problem is addressed. Obama addressed problems with a fair eye towards what the other tribe needed.
~ HC’s tribe, when criticized answers with, “Your tribe is doing it, too.” That’s the difference. Trump addresses problems without taking my tribe’s needs into consideration. Trump’s a walking talking crime in progress. People are in the penitentiary for doing things Trump paid them to do. And … we haven’t even begun to investigate his breeches of the emoluents clause.
~ Bias is strong in both tribes. Mine tends to be aware of ours and looks to fix it. HC’s tribe tends to ignore or dismiss theirs and look for “what aboutism” as their justification.
~ Life in a state with such high numbers of one tribe yet still within a country where that tribe is a minority is where HC’s tribe’s only strength lies. Maybe that’s the justification for staying put, being stubborn and being afraid of new ideas from elsewhere.
Jason
Richard Schriever wrote:
Jason – “….humans cannot control the environment.” What is farming if not controlling the environment (what plants grow where and when, where water comes from and where it is routed to – irrigation). What is agriculture if not the root of all science? Seriously – you are a total miscreant.
I meant to say “climate”
Jason
o wrote
Right, and your paper listed the correlation of two actors: seismic activity and carbon loading (manmade activity) and put the correlation of both roughly equal (in statistical correlation terms).
From the study:
“multiple regression indicates that CO2 does not explain a significant percentage of the total variance (P > 0.1) when paired with HGFA MAG4/6 activity (P < 0.05). As a result, HGFA MAG4/6 is retained as a significant predictor while CO2 is removed from the analysis (Table 2).
Donald Pay
Regarding correlation of seismic events to global warming, there are quite of bit of science ignored. What matters is not the correlation of seismic events to warming. What matters is the amount of heat transfer. You can have a billion-fold increase in seismicity which results in a transfer of a puny amount more of energy that is already a puny amount in the overall global heat budget. And that happens to be the case here. Nice try, but no cigar, Jason.
happy camper
I’m not in a tribe – I consider myself a Classical Liberal/Libertarian which allows a more independent view of both sides. I do appreciate Porter sees that his tribe has an ingrained bias, but he fails when saying they are more fair and corrective. His description of the process led to quite a chuckle, and if we listen to Richard those statements are completely subjective and without validity.
Donald, Richard made a good point that the two people I know have only subjective judgments it would be illogical to take any such anonymous postings seriously. Their experiences were before Trump and Rounds, but forget it was mentioned. I do wish I could explain more about how the money gets doled out to the schools from Washington, the process itself, my friend’s explanation was eye-opening, but it’s been too long.
Porter Lansing
Pee Wee Camper sez … “I’m not in a tribe. You are!” There you have it, Chairy.
Jason
Donald Pay wrote:
What matters is the amount of heat transfer. You can have a billion-fold increase in seismicity which results in a transfer of a puny amount more of energy that is already a puny amount in the overall global heat budget. And that happens to be the case here. Nice try, but no cigar, Jason.
It’s like you didn’t even read the study.
From the study:
Despite the fact that the total amount of heat from geothermal sources is thought to be relatively small, numerous studies have shown their impact to be significant. Carmack et al. [11] show that underwater geothermal heat can trigger thermobaric convection (TC), a ventilating mechanism that raises the thermocline, amplifying the transfer of heat from the ocean to the overlying atmosphere [12]. In Polar Regions, this can destroy the cold, mixed layer, exposing warm, saltier water underneath within a short period of time. Geothermal heating of bottom water also increases the strength of oceanic overturning [13], and is responsible for increasing Pacific basin temperatures by 0.5°C three km below the surface [14].
Do climate deniers have a death wish? Do they all think they’re doing God’s work by hastening The End?
Donald Pay
Jason,
The study is compete garbage. The heat transfer is still small. You can amplify the transfer of heat to deep waters but if the heat amount of heat transfer to the atmosphere is miniscule, which it is, it still doesn’t matter. Please read up on this. These studies take some information from scientific findings and distort it by not filling in all the information. They are meant to fool people like you. The “doubt industry” counts on people like you who don’t understand the entire picture.
grudznick
Mr. Lansing, my tribe is mostly made of derelicts and misfits, who, like I, are replete with filthy clothes, shoes without socks, bearded, unkempt and unwashed. Stinky-and-we-know-it-clap-your-hands derelict. Sometimes. Othertimes I bathe and go out in public for breakfast.
J&J knew since 1971 their baby powder was contaminated with asbestos and they lied and covered it up. Now they are finally facing liability for their deceit.
Sounds like wingnut’s kind of people. Profit above all else.
“We have no more time for fossil fuels,” she said. “Natural gas as bridge to renewable energy has expired and we need to invest in battery storage, renewables and other zero carbon options.”
We have a long way to go when 90% of our total energy comes from fossil fuels today. The transition is just starting, not ending.
Jason
I am still waiting Donald.
John Schmidt
I would love to see him run. Check out his final speech on this year’s “24 Hours of Reality”. In 2020 let’s run as the Democratic (renewable energy) Party.
Yes they are, Jason, as surely as they are against taking serious steps to decrease fossil fuel usage and take serious steps to curb anthropogenic climate change.
John, I believe serious, dedicated, ticket-spanning environmentalism is a key component that SD Democrats failed to deploy in 2018 (and 2016, and 2014) and that we can win on in 2020.
Jason
Cory,
Just because Republicans don’t fund something doesn’t mean they are against it.
Why should US taxpayers subsidize something that doesn’t help to reduce taxes in the future?
It is impossible for renewable energy to replace fossil fuels.
Are you ready to discuss all of the Democrats that voted for oil and gas subsidies?
Debbo
“Just because Republicans don’t fund something doesn’t mean they are against it.”
It’s a flashing neon sign. It’s always wiser to watch what they do rather than what they say. Pootiepublicans have worked hard over time to become the party of liars, now led by their hero, and undisputed champeen! The Liar-in-Chief!!
That quote is one of the funniest things humor impaired Jason has ever said.
😂🤪🤣🤪😂🤪🤣
o
Energy policy is zero-sum. Although Republicans may not always be overtly anti-renewables, their continued pro-fossile fuel stances do that job for them. The most irritating part of this whole discussion is that the GOP pretends that big-oil/gas/coal are somehow not subsidized by them in the market place. There is also a refusal to acknowledge the detrimental and EXPENSIVE foreign, environmental and military policies that especially oil policy pulls the US into. The big lie is the oil pays its own way and if renewables would do the same then markets would decide.
Republicans DO fund oil directly and indirectly; that is a barrier to renewables getting market share.
Exxon attorney wrote kremlin annex comments about new EPA chief. Who is running the gubmint? Not Drumpf.
mike from iowa
This is absolutely unbelievable- ccording to MoJo’s Rebecca Leber, the Environmental Protection Agency (protecting the environment is right there in its name!) is now “fact-checking” the multi-agency, peer-reviewed National Climate Assessment with citations to… The Daily Caller. What could go wrong?
Fact checking with citations to Tucker Carlson?
jerry
600 plus people still unaccounted for in the fires in California.
“More than 1,000 people are listed as missing in the wake of the Northern California wildfire known as the Camp Fire, authorities say. It’s a number that has ballooned rapidly and is expected to continue to fluctuate. The Butte County Sheriff’s Office had said on Thursday evening there were 631 people unaccounted for.” https://www.npr.org/2018/11/16/668552010/more-than-600-people-now-missing-in-californias-deadliest-fire
Like New Underwood or Woonsocket (gotta love those melons) just disappearing without a trace. Climate change is real.
Drumpf EPA wants to remove regulations limiting emissions of Mercury and other toxins. They stay in place for now, but…….
jerry
Bah Zing!!Germany now is powered mostly by renewable energy. The perfect time for a feller like Al Gore to be our president.
“”Renewable sources of energy overtook coal as Germany’s main power source for the first time over 2018, a study suggests.
Solar, wind, biomass and hydroelectric generation rose 4.3 per cent last year to account for 40 per cent of German electricity production in 2018, up from 38.2 per cent in 2017 and 19.1 per cent in 2010.
Over the course of the year, 38 per cent of the country’s power was generated from coal, researchers said.” These German folks, they manufacture a lot of stuff there and they are doing with with the sun and the wind. How about that!!
Robert McTaggart
They are shutting down local coal mines and getting it from the U.S. and Russia. Not part of the plan.
“Reuters notes that critics are claiming favorable weather patterns, rather than sustainable growth, helped the country produce more renewable energy this year than last year. ”
Heating and transportation are still difficult to do without relying on an energy-intensive power source…and without nuclear that means fossil fuels.
jerry
And that is where you’re incorrect Doc.
“”We will not fall below 40 per cent in 2019 because more renewable installations are being built and weather patterns will not change that dramatically,” he said.
Green power sceptics have said the high renewable power output reflects favourable weather patterns and does not prove the sector’s contribution to secure energy supplies.
Put Al Gore in the White House and we can begin a real level of prosperity, riding on the green train…. Like France built for Germany…hydrogen powered… Gotta love that Doc.
Robert McTaggart
Germany has not solved the intermittency problem yet. Sending the excess energy somewhere is fine for now, but once the penetration of renewables exceeds a certain level that will not be feasible for maintaining a stable grid. I’d rather make up the difference with nuclear instead of gas….especially if storage does not work well enough.
Nuclear is also resistant to EMP (electromagnetic pulse), which can occur by natural processes from the Sun (i.e. too much solar power!) or from devices delivered into orbit by North Korea, Russia, or China. The current plants can shut down safely, and the new ones remove heat passively if power is lost. Those are the reactors you can walk away from if there is ever a disruption…you gotta love that jerry!!!
That is one issue with an over-reliance on wind and solar and an avoidance of nuclear. It is also better to displace fossil fuel with wind and solar and keep the carbon-free power from nuclear intact.
“If you are shutting down your coal fleet, it’s pretty hard to shut down your nuclear fleet at the same time and still offer reliable power to customers.”
In an nutshell, the authors state that only nuclear can ramp up in time to meet our power demands without emitting carbon before the climate reaches the tipping point. A Germany-style approach applied to all nations will simply take too long.
grudznick
Good take, Dr. McT. I am reading the newsletter now, but it’s always refreshing when one posts a blue link and gives their take, instead of just trying to sucker some unsuspecting old fellow into clicking it.
Do that if you want to lose – again. You should have learned your lesson with Billie Sutton moderates have a chance nobody likes Al Gore he has the charisma of an old shoe.
Amen. Gore for czar.
I wouldn’t go so far as saying Gore should be the nominee, but I wouldn’t mind if he got into the race to push a rational agenda on climate change. I think, though, he is better suited to being the next President’s whisperer on climate issues. I think we need someone not of the Trump generation.
Climate change is the new boogeyman for the left. The truth is science is never settled only politics in the progressive mind. We’ve seen medicine thrown on its ear, physics do an about face, every discipline over and over, but now magically we know just what to do that’s farcical. Marcon is getting his butt kicked over there was somebody talking about blindness??? The elites always forget about the working people.
I think the most dangerous part of supporting a Global Warming theory advocate is the movement has taken on such a fascist flare. Hell, Global Warming may very well be true but being we can’t even control the next thunderstorm to have the audacity of thinking somehow we can control the entire climate is silly but even then if you express those views the lemmings call you every name under the sun as if questioning a theory is somehow “unscientific”. A very fascist reaction.
Beyond that Gore is too easily dislikable as a person to win anything other than a few fools adoration.
Al Gore won in 2000, just like Hillary Clinton won in 2016. The Russians really won when they were not given their rightful offices. Think of all the blood and treasure wasted from Bush, and now to complete the bankruptcy, we have the Russian trump. We also have Short Rounds who has the 25 billion for a fakey wall but no more help for the farmer.
We could use Gore to Make America Geek Again. To be able to build a friggin LED bulb for goodness sake. Daktronics cannot complete a scoreboard without the lighting from China because we don’t know how to do that. Making a light bulb is to complex for us to think about. We now use Velcro to tie our shoes because we are too damn fat to bend over and get that job done. Gore would have us slimmed down like he did to become healthy again. GORE FOR PRESIDENT to gore the bloated government into fair trade and lasting peace.
“Al Gore won in 2000, just like Hillary Clinton won in 2016” Yep, and neither one ended up President. . .
As far as the Russians go the google CEO testified in front of Congress and said the Russians spent just over $4K on the last election. And being that Hillary spent a whole boatload more money just to lose she ain’t that good with money is she. . . Maybe we are better off having someone that understands the value of a dollar as president.
OldSarge: “Hell, Global Warming may very well be true but being we can’t even control the next thunderstorm to have the audacity of thinking somehow we can control the entire climate is silly . . .”
That is the whole point of the Global Warming discussion. That temperatures are going up is easy to prove — thermometers show that. The real point is the manmade contribution to that warming. The reliance on fossil fuel use and subsequent emissions are causing a man-made warming effect. Believe what you want, the scientific consensus is clear on that point. HOW we choose to act in the face of that knowledge is where politics SHOULD come in.
What I really have never understood about the right is the justification of a pro-pollution agenda — like somehow ending CO2 emissions means we are missing out on something good (we are not; pollution is bad). An honest discussion reminds us that this is nothing but another protection of the pro-wealth, greed agenda of the right where even the environment and public health ought to be set aside for the obscene collection of wealth by a few.
Well, we see above the #anti-science contingent in full b.s. mode, but happy camper, at least, has a bit of wisdom. Yes, everything in science is contingent. Even our understanding of gravity can be overturned. Here’s the problem, though, for happy camper: there are also some things in science that have been well established and stood the test over time. He can, if he wants, prove our understanding of gravity wrong by climbing up a mountain and jumping off a ledge. Go right ahead. All you hurt is yourself, but maybe, just maybe, you will hover.
Now if you generate a “doubt industry” to convince some dumb people to climb that mountain and jump off that mountain because you convince them that we do not fully understand gravity, well, I think you are guilty of murder. There really is no science in the doubt industry. It’s all public relations work funded by the fossil fuel interests.
Climate change is not a “new boogeyman of the left.” First, it is not “new.” Second, it is not a “left” or “right” issue. Now there are solutions to the climate change problems we face that perhaps have ideological proponents. Cap and trade policies, for example, were proposed originally by conservative advocates. Carbon taxes have been mostly advocated by liberals. We can argue about each, but saying that greenhouse gases aren’t a major cause of current climate warming is like saying our theory about gravity has some holes in it.
No greater false prophet and hypocrite profiteer in the last century than Algore. And science?!, Cory it is only science to you if it supports your politics. When it comes to human life, you are a denier, and science is something you want keep away from women.
Steve, are you sure you are talking about “science?” You keep using that word; I’m not sure that word means what you think it means.
Here is how I define “scientific consensus of warming from human activity”:
https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/
Donald I was being rhetorical to make a point science is the only thing we have which must include skepticism. Reactionary fear could lead to some dreaded policies global prosperity has improved which actually helps combat poor environmental practices. But it’s also true “accepted science” changes its mind on a dime (Oops!!!) so we have to be very wise about the policies.
Once again, if it is indeed such a big problem (and I think that it is) then we need to stop throwing away the cards that will win the hand. That means we need the combo of nuclear, renewables, efficiency, and storage to work.
And the nuclear industry is rooting for energy storage:
https://www.nei.org/news/2018/nuclear-batteries-energy-storage-carbon-free
The Trump Administration recently made a push for coal and natural gas at one of the global climate conferences in Poland. While coal may become more efficient with new power plants, ultimately coal needs carbon capture to work and be cost effective for it to contribute energy while not adding to the climate issue.
Simply put, both the coal+gas only model and the renewables+gas only model will fail long-term without carbon capture and/or energy storage. Emitting less carbon per kilowatt-hour than today doesn’t mean much when in 30 years population growth and rising demands for energy mean we emit more total carbon than today.
Climate policy is the boogeyman of the Left. I’m open to science and seeing what our science efforts are showing but I’ve read opposing views. I don’t for a minute believe it’s proven and the coming danger the Left spouts.
And as long as I see Mr. Gore and all of you science wielding people flying planes, driving cars and so on I will continue to be skeptical.
Again, not saying it isn’t true but there is plenty of “reasonable doubt” flying around to not just jump in all for it.
Donald nails it as usual. Science would not be science if scientists were unwilling to revise their conclusions based on new evidence, whether relating to gravity, human contributions to climate change, evolution, or any other matter studied.
The doubt industry is totally different. In another thread Jason cited a variety of sources to support the notion that humans don’t contribute to climate change. In reviewing his links, however, I recall no source that based a contrary position on a study of the questions they addressed.
Instead, Jason’s linked sources typically asserted flaws in the work of climate scientists and those reporting on the findings of these scientists. For example, one study attempted to prove that “less than” (ultimately approximately only 90%) of scientists, rather than 97-98% as reported, concluded that human activity contributed to detrimental climate change. There was no analysis or reference to any study showing that the remaining 90% were somehow mistaken in their analysis or conclusions, yet this was a major article relied upon by climate change deniers.
Conspicuously missing was any affirmative research on the underlying issues, namely, whether human activity contributes to detrimental climate change and whether by modifying these activities we can slow such change. And Jason seemed to be simply following talking points of the professional doubters, as his arguments and linked parroted similar apologists for the denial industry.
It clearly is valid to question and criticize scientific methods, studies and conclusions and identify any errors, yet it will rarely, if ever, follow that the opposite fact to what has been studied must be true or false merely because of identifying some mistake or weakness. Instead, conclusions about the underlying issues need independent evidence, typically absent missing from the doubt industry’s links, studies and arguments.
o~ “That temperatures are going up is easy to prove — thermometers show that.” please provide proof. . . If there is a location, a link, a site or a book of the imperial evidence demonstrating the world temps are going up I’ll be all on-board the Global Warming ship.
Remember when they kept talking about the pacific islands of Micronesia and the Solomon were all sinking? Those freaking islands have turned around and gotten larger but guess what? The islanders are still petitioning the UN for more money from countries such as the USA because their islands that are not sinking are sinking. . . must be science denyers. . .
Hap, comparing the Sutton run for SD Gov to the 2020 Presidential race is not fruitful. It is possible that we can bring 51% of South Dakota voters to their senses and get them to reject Donald Trump at the polls as surely as they would reject him if he walked into any bar at the Four Corners and started running his mouth, but it is far more probable that we can get a majorities in an Electoral College majority of states—including, this time, a Florida threatened by rising seas—to vote for a candidate who acknowledges science, reality, and the need to save the planet from fossil-fuel-fueled ostrichism.
Climate denialism really is corporate fascism.
Fascism is such an abused word these days.
What do you call politicalised and falsified science in the hands of globalists who make poorer people poorer and enrich themselves and the industries they invest in while burdening the workforce in struggling nations with costs and job cuts and debts and forcing stupid eco-fad lightbulbs and other feel-good pseudo-science suggested (unproven) remedies on the populace? There is an unbroken thread from Darwin to social Darwinism to eugenics to various alarmisms (population, climate)…. let’s kill people to save the planet. What do you call it Cory when one group tries to control another? Algore didn’t just invent the internet, he wrote the bible on all these things. A dark soul indeed.
China may save us from ourselves. ”
“The UN secretary general, António Guterres, has made a dramatic intervention to revive flagging climate talks in Katowice, Poland, by flying back to the conference and preparing a personal call to the Chinese president, Xi Jinping.
US accused of obstructing talks at UN climate change summit
“We’re running out of time,” he told the plenary. “To waste this opportunity would compromise our last best chance to stop runaway climate change. It would not only be immoral, it would be suicidal.”
The talks have centred on devising a rulebook for implementing the 2015 Paris agreement and raising countries’ level of ambition to counter climate change, but progress has been slow on several key issues and divisions have emerged between four fossil fuel powers – the US, Russia, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait – and the rest of the world.” https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/dec/12/un-chief-antonio-guterres-attempts-to-revive-flagging-climate-change-talks
Always good to see honest brokers to tackle the corruption of the Koch Brothers and the fraudulent clergy that are their hand maidens.
Beyond that Gore is too easily dislikable as a person to win anything other than a few fools adoration.
Never met Gore and already like him better than I would ever like pathological lying OldSnarlylies like a dog.
OldSarge:
1) Measured temps have risen: (the same NASA site I linked to above that you didn’t click on for the answer). https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
Welcome aboard!
2) As of 2017, those islands are still sinking and losing land to the ocean: https://www.newsweek.com/sea-level-rise-vanishing-islands-micronesia-history-706455
The United States is now one of the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse. Boy, am I proud or what. The US, Russia, The Saw Bones people of Saudi Ariabia and the powdered bums of Kuwait.
Gore would bring us good paying jobs and also jobs that show we can make a flippin light bulb. Geesh people, is this it.
Fascism is properly applied to the Trump-Koch climate denial axis:
Why else would we ignore science in favor of fossil fuel corporate interests?
Fix that fascism. Elect Al Gore in 2020.
Drought and fire are the norm for California.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2014/01/30/graphic-californias-droughts-in-the-past-1200-years/
Steve: “What do you call politicalised and falsified science in the hands of globalists who make poorer people poorer and enrich themselves and the industries they invest in while burdening the workforce in struggling nations with costs and job cuts and debts and forcing stupid eco-fad lightbulbs and other feel-good pseudo-science suggested (unproven) remedies on the populace?”
Assuming that what not rhetorical, my answers would be: 1) The GOP, 2) The Fossil Fuel Industry, and 3) Most-All Organized Religions
A friend explained how Groupthink happens in science: It’s about grants! It’s about the money! He worked in Washington in an area that decided who got the money, which schools, etc, how to funnel it down. He is a liberal Chemistry professor from top schools but quit after being so discouraged by the politics of who would get the money, and how. There was definately an agenda and a way to write the grants, so even though scientists should be the most logical among us, they are still being people needing acceptance of their peer group to get jobs, bring their school money and recognition, and say and do the right things to survive. And even though he is so much smarter than I am I could poke holes in his logic these smart people are not right all the time!!!
After Trump Cory we’re gonna want the anti-Trump someone young, hopeful, and moderate no more old fogies out with Pelosi, McConnell, and Schumer too!
Pelosi and Schumer spanked trump like the soiled brat he is. Damn, that was funny. McConnell just legalized hemp! Old fogies with hemp stogies.
American industry and growth was once fueled by innovation. What economic rift made the US reject that cause, and double-down on regressive energy technology? Why did the US decide the path to the future was to regress to late 19th century energy production methods and supplies (supplies dominated by foreign holdings)?
Where will the U.S. be when the transition (the inevitable, world-wide transition) happens to the post-fossil fuel economy? Wake up! This is all about the current 1% oligarchs cementing their profit margins and wealth to coast the rest of history while everyone else is left behind. When both Steves, and OldSarge, and the rest of the GOP faithful speak of political agendas pushing science, this is the money trail that exposes the true motives of the actual false science of climate denial — no matter the cost in human life or environmental degradation.
This study will show that increasing seismic activity for the globe’s high geothermal flux areas (HGFA), an indicator of increasing geothermal forcing, is highly correlated with average global temperatures from 1979 to 2015 (r = 0.785). By comparison, the correlation between carbon dioxide loading and global temperatures for the same period is lower (r = 0.739).
https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/the-correlation-of-seismic-activity-and-recent-global-warming-2157-7617-1000345.php?aid=72728
o,
Please explain to us how humans are going to control seismic activity.
What if those “oligarchs” are investing in the renewable technologies? Should we skip renewables in that case? If there is profit, they will go there.
Can I trust OMICS, iMedPub, Conference Series, Allied Academies …
https://www.researchgate.net/…/Can_I_trust_OMICS_iMedPub_Conference_Series_Allie…
However, the scientific credibility of the company is very questionable [4-6]. OMICS has … Article Predatory Publishing – Experience with OMICS International.
OMICS International | Open Access Journals
https://www.omicsonline.com/
OMICS International through its Open Access Initiative is committed to make genuine and reliable contributions to the scientific community. OMICS International …
Medical Journals Have a Fake News Problem – Bloomberg
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/…08…/medical-journals-have-a-fake-news-problem
Aug 29, 2017 – With help from drug companies, Omics International is making millions … its conferences, bringing Omics both credibility and the funds to grow.
OMICS International | Open Access Journals List
https://www.omicsgroup.org/
OMICS International is currently managing more than 700 High impact, Open … Access Initiative is committed to make genuine and reliable contributions to the …
A Peek Inside the Strange World of Fake Academia – The New York …
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/…/fake-academe-looking-much-like-the-real-thing.ht…
Dec 29, 2016 – OMICS International is a leader in the growing business of academic publication fraud. It has created scores of “journals” that mimic the look …
Quality and Reliability in Analytical Chemistry | OMICS International
https://www.omicsonline.org/…/quality-and-reliability-in-analytical-chemistry-2471-2…
Quality and Reliability in Analytical Chemistry. Maceiras R. Assistant Professor, Department of Chemical Engineering, Defense University Center, Spain. Visit for …
Operational Procedures and Reliability for Safe … – OMICS International
https://www.omicsonline.org/…/operational-procedures-and-reliability-for-safe-drinki…
Citation: Bhatt SM, Shilpa (2015) Operational Procedures and Reliability for Safe Drinking Water. J Bioremed Biodeg 6:e160. doi:10.4172/2155-6199.1000e160.
Troll, a lot of seismic activity comes from man made fracking.
Doc, this one’s for you – https://tinyurl.com/ycz743mp
Drumpf wants to reclassify nuke weapons waste as low level so it is easier and cheaper to dispose of. From Newsweek.
Geesh mfi, NOem and the rest of the outlaws will be lining up to push these dumps in South Dakota. With a more than compliant and eager trumpian legislature, they may finally achieve their Lone Tree goals.
Jason,
Omics International is a well-known publisher of fake science papers. Omics generates these fake journal to fool the naive people, such as yourself, into believing that these are real scientific papers. One tip off from your link is this:
“Received April 02, 2016; Accepted April 21, 2016; Published April 25, 2016”
A truly peer-reviewed journal would not have a 19-day turnaround on a subject such as this. Open source journals have their place, but you have to be very careful.
The Federal Trade Commission has brought deception charges against Omics for claiming their on-line journals to be peer-reviewed when they are not and using the names of various academics without consent.
In essence, you are citing the purveyor of fraudulent science. Not a good way to make your point.
Related to waste disposal my brother in law worked at a Superfund site in Washington state. He had never seen so much corruption in his entire career they make very little progress but always get more money from Congress. Have no idea if it’s a wise thing to change those classifications, but be aware some of these huge government contractors are only out to soak more tax dollars they don’t really care about the environment, just the money, so don’t be naive on that end either. It’s usually about the money.
Happy camper makes another good point. Sure, scientific research requires grant applications, which get screened and recommended for funding by other scientists. It can be political in some areas. Certainly, Jon Goffman’s work on the health effects of radiation was stymied by the nuclear industry. Work by scientists on the impacts of cigarette smoking was stymied by the cigarette industry. Work on the impacts of pesticides has been strangled for years by the chemical industry. Research on the gun violence now is being hindered by Trump, Republicans in Congress and their minders in the NRA. Agent Orange impacts on soldiers and Vietnamese civilians was stopped for a time by Dow Chemical Company. And the fossil fuel industry has stopped a lot of research on the impacts of burning coal and other fossil fuels on mercury pollution, sulfur oxides pollution, and greenhouse gases. There’s a pretty clear pattern here. When industry profits are involved, there will be serious efforts to politicize, hinder and stop money going to scientists conducting research in this field, especially if the results are likely to open up a can of worms for industry.
Yes, I saw that Mike. Regardless, we do need to deal with the high-level waste at places like Hanford. We have punted on that for too long.
Happy camper makes another good point about Superfund Sites. Look at the Agnico-Eagle corruption at the Gilt Edge Superfund Site in the Black Hills. Total corruption. What is needed is to put the public in charge. The Trump Administration is engaging in huge corruption in Superfund programs. They are doing shoddy work, claiming things are cleaned up and washing their hands of the problems. The problems will linger. Guess who isn’t conducting oversight of these matters? Sen. Rounds. He’s supposed chair of Superfund Subcommittee and have oversight of this program. He’s done exactly zero, and let’s the corruption go on and on while nothing gets properly cleaned up.
Happy camper, start complaining with Rounds. Maybe you can get him to do his job.
Jason, you again show that your understanding of science is only political. Before I answer your question, what does “R = XXXXX” mean in your evidence? I will not discuss science with you until you show at least a cursory understanding of statistical data.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-08-29/medical-journals-have-a-fake-news-problem
How Omics Int came to be.
By all means Gore should get in the race and see what happens. I doubt I’ll support him, but must admit the way he handled his election loss now stands in stark contrast with Trump who even WON his. He took the result in stride and found a new focus. I’d welcome his voice in the race.
o~ I’ve taken a look at both links. At https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/ where the GISS data is reported ad they tell us they adjust the temperature data. So, I look up the adjustment and they adjust the temperatures for an assortment of reasons but the raw temperatures have actually fallen since 1980. Here take a look they explain it: https://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/faq/#q203 It might be even worse. This is on the page: “What may be done before combining those data is to increase the new data or lower the old ones until the two series seem consistent.” That makes it appear they are actually increasing the more recent data and lowering the recordings from the past. Dude, this isn’t helping. . .
Your article from Newsweek 2017: https://www.newsweek.com/sea-level-rise-vanishing-islands-micronesia-history-706455 is countered by Phys.com which say the islands are growing: https://phys.org/news/2018-02-pacific-nation-bigger.html
This is my whole deal with articles, information and opinions. When I asked about empirical data or studies that is what I was looking for. When it turns out our own NASA is adjusting the raw data to give us a different picture it makes you start to question everything the government is telling us. Remember that study everyone was quoting about the 97% of “scientist” agreeing climate change was due to human factors? Did you ever read about the “actual” study? It was actually a study that reviewed a survey of scientist. It was a review of scientific papers by searching 928 abstracts for the words “climate change” then deciding if they thought those papers supported human caused global warming. No study, nothing actually scientific, no test but that 97% was tossed around for years like it was gospel. I just don’t know what to believe.
Let’s have a different Democratic pres candidate, but Al Gore for the EPA and make sure he is Listened To!
You deniers would let ensuing generations fry, including your descendants. Shame on you.
The thing is Donald in my two examples my friend was in Washington during the Obama years he saw a liberal bias it can go either way. He was disillusioned he thought it was going to be his dream job. My brother in law also saw corruption during the Obama years and before these huge projects don’t have enough government oversight by qualified people there has to be more accountability but the money is huge. It’s money not either party there is good news too beyond our nature of procrastinating and lamenting: “Many people feel pessimistic about the state of the environment. But there are also many who hold a more optimistic view, believing that human ingenuity can help preserve the environment. The latter view is sometimes called ‘enlightenment environmentalism’ or “ecomodernism.” https://humanprogress.org/article.php?p=1462
And I meant to say Volkswagen says it will not create new combustion engine technology after it’s next generation of cars. “Volkswagen Group expects the era of the combustion car to fade away after it rolls out its next-generation gasoline and diesel cars beginning in 2026.”
https://canada.autonews.com/article/20181204/CANADA01/312049920/vw-says-the-next-generation-of-cars-with-combustion-engines-will-be-its-last
Thank you, o, for that fantastic princess bride reference. Nobody else caught that? Shame.
Fires in California are nothing new, but the destruction from them and the longer fire seasons are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAHcQU7KU6s
China is so far ahead of the United States in clean public transportation fleets like in this city of 12 million! Al Gore will make it happen for us the US, to find our way to kick the Koch Brothers and Exxon Mobile to the curb.
“You have to keep your eyes peeled for the bus at the station in Shenzhen’s Futian central business district these days. The diesel behemoths that once signalled their arrival with a piercing hiss, a rattle of engine and a plume of fumes are no more, replaced with the world’s first and largest 100% electric bus fleet.
Shenzhen now has 16,000 electric buses in total and is noticeably quieter for it. “We find that the buses are so quiet that people might not hear them coming,” says Joseph Ma, deputy general manager at Shenzhen Bus Group, the largest of the three main bus companies in the city. “In fact, we’ve received requests to add some artificial noise to the buses so that people can hear them. We’re considering it.”” https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/dec/12/silence-shenzhen-world-first-electric-bus-fleet
We are loosing the production of electric cars to China with the biggest reason, 400 million middle class citizens there! While our middle class sinks like an anvil, these guys are doing much better. But we are fatter, so we got that going for us, which is a good thing…right?
Ether, phlogiston, and Jason’s climate change denialism all deserve the same sort and amount of attention.
o,
R is the correlation.
I will wait for anybody to find the science was incorrect in the study I linked to.
Al Gore should lead this discussion in 2020. He is the most expert and articulate Democratic explainer of real environmental science. Forget Jason and OS: we need to rally rational, non-political people with facts, stand for science, and take this country back.
America was built on science and rationalism. To see America laughed at in Poland and around the world, to see America representing the forces of selfish ignorance and crass corporatism, is not only embarrassing but gravely dangerous to our ability to remain a global leader. We must reverse that destructive trend. That’s why Al Gore in 2020 matters.
He’s old news.
We are debating climate change? Perfect example of American Exceptionalism. Only in America …
Jason … This is the fourth time I’ve shown you this data. It’s true that a fool can deny anything, thus nothing (by definition) is undeniable. You’re a complete contrarian and I don’t believe you are open to scientific data.
~ NASA says that it’s 95% provable that humans are causing global warming.
~ Also, the adjustments made to temperature models are due to newer technologies coming online and in actuality have shown less warming than is probably true.
https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
Do you know what would help postpone any non-natural causes of global warming? More Nuclear Power. Plus, we learn more #4Science with nukes than with just burning black tar and rocks.
Porter, jason cannot open links. The only link he opens is his paytroll account
Here’s a fun four minutes with Al Gore and The Liberal Redneck Trae Crowder talking about the biggest problem facing humanity. Human caused climate damage.
Hope you like it. I did. :) Gore Trump Before He Gores You!
https://www.facebook.com/algore/videos/liberal-redneck-climate-change-the-game/483796162125771/
I know, Jerry. I think he’s boycotting me since I threatened to turn his personal information over to the Muslim Brotherhood. sheeeeesh
For proof, I would check out the isotopic content of the carbon in the atmosphere for the connection of human impact to climate change.
Carbon from living organisms has a certain abundance of Carbon-14, which is naturally-occurring and produced when particles from the sun and elsewhere hit our atmosphere. Carbon that has spent millions of years underground will not have any Carbon-14 left in it because it would have radioactively decayed.
Moreover, as plants seem to prefer their carbon in the form of C12 instead of C13, burning fossil fuels (i.e. dead plants) will release more Carbon-12 into the air. So the ratio of C13 to C12 should decrease as the amount of C12 increases.
Guess what isotopic ratio has been decreasing since it has been measured?
Happy Camper,
When you get to the Superfund stage of cleaning up poisoned sites, you are dealing with the most complicated and toxic sites with huge human health and environmental implications, and you can’t cut corners. The Obama years were pretty good, as far as Superfund cleanups, especially considering that Republicans cut EPA funding in this area leaving considerable staff shortages. They were so good and so corruption free that former EPA head Pruitt tried to take credit for the Obama-era cleanups. A lot of the people in industry think dirty and quick cleanups are enough, and that’s what the Trump Administration has been pursuing. A number of local communities are complaining about the shoddy work the Trump Administration accepts. What is going to happen is that these cleanups aren’t going to be adequate and the costs are going to be double or triple when they have to be redone.
Mr. Pay, in your opinion what sort of good and corruption free or quick and dirty nasty clean-up is being done up there at that Galena place near that Wild Bills hamburger joint? Good and corruptions free, or dirty and corruptions full? It is certainly not quick and dirty. It seems long and dirty at the least.
Christmas 2018 & 2019 present- Algore as Democrat nominee. Never even crossed my greatest imagination. Please Santa. I promise to be good.
Well, Grudz, the Gilt Edge Site will never be fully cleaned up in my opinion. It has lots of very serious problems from multiple causes, but at least no one is adding to them with additional mining right now.
Gilt Edge will be just like the Whitewood Creek site that was “cleaned up” to a certain degree, but which leaves a lot of buried tailings in place. Disturbing those tailings to clean them up was thought to be more dangerous than letting them stay in place without further disturbing the area. The tailings are supposed to be protected from disturbance, but a lot of stupid people want to mine those tailings so they can make money while poisoning the water, and with Pirner at DENR nothing is safe.
The current attempt to deal with a hundred years of buried cadmium-laced tailings at Gilt Edge is in that same vein. It is just an excuse to let a Canadian miming company mine gold on the site, while bribing EPA and DENR. They aren’t really interested in actual clean up.
In the case of Gilt Edge waste rock problems they will be happy if they can treat the water for a hundred or more years. Maybe they can put a cap on the waste rock and slow the process.
I’m sure they could clean the site up completely by carting away all the toxic tailings, but doing so would have considerable environmental impacts of its own.
I’d be interested to see if there is a bacterium that has evolved in the old tailings that might be able to capture cadmium. But Agnico isn’t going to do anything innovative. They just want to mine gold.
Christmas 2020 Al Gore as president> I will be very very good.
Howdy, Troy. Missed you, man. Don’t be such a stranger. Your opinions and intellect are always interesting. Merry Christmas.
It isn’t necessary to be a scientist or to be able to interpret scientific data to have respect for our home, planet earth.
Most Americans take care of their homes and personal property, climate change deniers can’t understand the simplicity of maintaining a clean planet because it is the right thing and responsible to do.
Very interesting, Mr. Pay, thank you.
The part about a bacterium evolving to eat the cadmium is particularly intriguing to an old mutant fellow like myself.
But no Donald, my own family told me there was huge waste I will believe him he’s boots on the ground.
Perhaps there are some plants that bioaccumulate cadmium and other metals. I think you can then burn the plant material for energy and the heavy metals stay in the ash (much like what happens with coal…and sometimes that biomass can be co-fired with coal).
Perhaps there are some plants that bioaccumulate cadmium and other metals. I think you can then burn the plant material for energy and the heavy metals stay in the ash (much like what happens with coal…and sometimes that biomass can be co-fired with coal).
All i can say is Scotsman Hickey has replaced zed with the English “s”. Playing with his belly button I guess, eh Zteve :)
Gore for Climate czar, like i said.
I’ve also always said Grdz must be from the northern hills. As in Galena deadwood/lead. I think he is a former legislator too. The whole Talleys grvy taters bit is a scam. Wipe yer chin but thx for admitting Trump and Ravensborg are unqualified. Can I have your MAGA cap?
The rest of the right wing posters have been pretty well destroyed. Exemplary work today everyone. Wack-a-mole!
While the United States dithers with coal and fossil fuels, China moves rapidly ahead. If the US does not get on track with education for our future, then the future belongs to China as they get it.
“Chinese consumers are on track to buy more than 1 million electric vehicles (EVs) this year after sales grew 53% in 2017. And China’s leadership is charting a course to an all-electric future, targeting 2 million annual EV sales by 2020 and a complete ban on internal-combustion engines, which officials predicts will happen before 2040.
China’s EVs enthusiasm is driven by domestic considerations, but by committing to electric transportation, the world’s largest vehicle market will accelerate global EV adoption.
As China’s manufacturing prowess grows, technology costs will fall as has occurred with solar power. As a result, more affordable EVs will be more widely available, sooner than expected for consumers.” https://www.forbes.com/sites/energyinnovation/2018/05/30/chinas-all-in-on-electric-vehicles-heres-how-that-will-accelerate-sales-in-other-nations/#3cac14ae5c1e
The rare earths and other critical elements needed for EV batteries are not necessarily rare, but it is difficult to separate them out from everything else without a lot of chemistry (i.e. strong acids).
We would not depend on China so much if either a better chemistry or no chemistry were required in the extraction of the critical elements. But today we are not willing to do what is necessary for this chemical extraction in the U.S.
By the same token, they are willing to do the chemical processing necessary for a lot of solar panels too.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/17/17246444/rare-earth-metals-discovery-japan-china-monopoly
Doc, you are sounding much like Al Gore in your regard towards the environment. Riddle me this then, why do good folks like yourself never comment about the absurdity of CAFO runoffs and the dangers they pose to our health? I look at posts that occur here and do not see why that is. Regarding Rare Earth, yes, now this is the Holy Grail but as you note, chemistry and the processing of metallurgic substances, could be the next Holy Grail. We will not find those links and those discoveries without an educated populace that is driven to make it all work. Kind of like President Kennedy and the moon shot.
Jerry, a Gore 2020 campaign based on an overarching concern for the environment would open the door for South Dakota Democrats to unify their message around local environmental concerns like CAFO runoff and jeopardization of drinking water, issues that seem to have traction with voters across the SD political spectrum.
I’ll take my chances on that present, Troy.
I’m not debating climate change, Jason [2], any more than I’m debating gravity or evolution. Al Gore needs to run, rally the folks who accept science, reality, and clear and present dangers, and win.
So was Richard Nixon in 1968.
Building work has restarted at hundreds of Chinese coal-fired power stations, according to an analysis of satellite imagery.
The research, carried out by green campaigners CoalSwarm, suggests that 259 gigawatts of new capacity are under development in China.
The authors say this is the same capacity to produce electricity as the entire US coal fleet.
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45640706
They need them to run all of their EV’s they are going to buy.
There is nothing to debate Cory. Science has not proven humans can control the environment.
Great link jason, and proves the point that government stimulus has to be involved to provide work. These plants will be only used, if ever, for a very limited amount of time while renewable energy will take their place.
From your link:
“However, some researchers believe that the building of these plants has more to do with boosting the local economy in China than with boosting emissions.
“Coal power plants run only about half the time in China, and one could argue the new capacity is not needed,” said Glen Peters, from the Centre for International Climate Research in Oslo, who was not involved with the report.
“The new coal power plant builds are most probably about keeping the economy ticking along, particularly from a provincial government perspective, rather than being needed for future electricity generation.””
Jason: “R is the correlation.”
Right, and your paper listed the correlation of two actors: seismic activity and carbon loading (manmade activity) and put the correlation of both roughly equal (in statistical correlation terms).
So my answer to “how do we stop seismic activity?” is we do not. Instead we address the factor of identical correlation – manmade warming due to carbon loading of the atmosphere — we do that b predicting that carbon loading, reducing that fossil fuel pollution, that fossil fuel consumption. That we have ABSOLUTE control over.
You are like the obese person that eats 50 Twinkies a day and has a thyroid problem; then comes to the conclusion that a thyroid problem causes weight gain, so might as well keep eating the Twinkies.
We fix what we can; we address that which we have control over. Your statistics indicate that will be enough.
sorry, we do that by preventing — not predicting.
Want to give young bloods involvement in their future, go green baby.
“”By Wednesday, the burgeoning effort to establish a select committee in the House of Representatives on a Green New Deal ― essentially a plan to make a plan ― picked up its strongest endorsements yet, netting support from the co-chairs of the 78-member Congressional Progressive Caucus and from the first labor union to back the proposal. At least 35 incoming or sitting House members support the resolution, as do four senators.
The proposal, championed by Rep.-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.), came as grassroots groups like the Sunrise Movement and Justice Democrats organized protests at the Capitol, with young activists occupying Democratic leaders’ offices and urging lawmakers to pledge their support. Nearly 150 people were arrested Monday in the groups’ largest demonstration yet.
“The idea that we give special attention to climate change should be a no-brainer,” Rep. Mark Pocan (D-Wis.), a Progressive Caucus co-chair, said by phone Wednesday.” https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/green-new-deal-democratic-support_us_5c117be8e4b0449012f65edf
Bah zing, even us old clinkers can grasp climate change…if someone takes the effort to talk with us about it.
happy camper – you realize, don’t you, that “he saw a liberal bias” is an example of a biased observation – not an evidence supported conclusion. I.E., the conclusion you have reached on the biases of scientific research is based on a biased observation, or what is called in the scientific lexicon – “experimenter bias”. It’s a well known and well understood phenomenon and there are research design methods to dealing with it.
happy camper – “My brother in law also saw corruption…..” So, did he act like a responsible citizen and blow the whistle? Or is it once again simply a matter of being a biased observer?
Yes Richard but he was a liberal making observations in his workplace. We all have biases but should attempt to be as objective as possible even so there’s a lot of junk science out there. That said we have to trust our observations to some degree or we wouldn’t get out of bed in the morning the problem is some people’s biases (which go unquestioned or even embraced) motivate them to get out of bed in the morning, write a blog, run for office, kill people, etc. I might argue that biases are the most dangerous thing we’ve got rolling around in our head.
Still a biased observation. But you go ahead and base your conclusions on all the biased anecdotal observations you like – they will all be as equally biased.
Our biases inform us to lead biased lives – biased in our own favor. This is true for all human individuals. Biases are NOT conducive to group success however. There-in lies the reason for the scientific approach/method – which requires structured investigation designed specifically to eliminate as much of the individual bias as possible. That is accomplished not simply through designing single observational processes (experiments) as the way to gain understanding. It also requires that MULTIPLE observations by MULTIPLE observers find some sort of INDEPENDENT agreement with the conclusions via repetition, discussion, consensus. And even then – the mathematical analysis contains PROBABILITY (not certainty. You, on the other hand – as a non-scientist – are perfectly willing to accept the admittedly biased, emotionally informed observations of two individuals to lead you to a certain conclusion. Do you begin to see the problem here?
Your right Richard, anything not measurable is subject to bias.
HC wisely point out, “I might argue that biases are the most dangerous thing we’ve got rolling around in our head.” It’s “tribe think” and it’s being fostered and promoted by a President with a mission to undo all the progress made by his predecessor. SD must be a very hard place to live. It’s a minority state with a majority of “tribe speaking” voters. Also, about ten years behind the times and continually on the wrong side of history. What’s the attraction? Fear of new things and ideas?
I do see the problem Richard, I have to know those I trust even then with a grain of salt, but what are your biases? Are you accepting Donald’s position that the Obama adminstration was not very corrupt because that’s what you want to think and just pretending to be a logical person, or extending this view to all walks of life?
But Porter, what about Tribe Think from the left? Are you a part of that? Similar to what you see on the right? To what extent do reinforcements blind your vision? My continued criticism of opinion news, anything outside of “objective reporting” admittedly a difficult thing but also held in high regard for that attempt, is propaganda.
Electricity is measurable and it is subject to bias or it wouldn’t flow.
Jason – “….humans cannot control the environment.” What is farming if not controlling the environment (what plants grow where and when, where water comes from and where it is routed to – irrigation). What is agriculture if not the root of all science? Seriously – you are a total miscreant.
happy camper – as a scientist – I go to great lengths to exclude my personal biases from my consideration of policy issues. That includes political biases – and ESPECIALLY my biases toward any individual person. My support or resistance to particular policies has nothing to do with political party or party member.
hc – science tells us there is no such thing as an “objective” stance/opinion/reporting. Applying scientific skepticism to all things is a daunting task. It doesn’t allow for total acceptance (faith in) anything – ever. There is ALWAYS a chance (sometimes extremely small) one might be wrong. The existence of a miniscule chance of error is no reason to simply sit still like a frozen (or boiled) frog. Where human intellect comes into play – deciding when enough evidence is enough to act on – always decide in favor of long-term species-perpetuation – not short term gains. Such behavior has been embodied in the concept of self-sacrifice. It’s FEATURED in modern western civilization as Christianity.
I’m sorry Richard, but you’re not believable: “My support or resistance to particular policies has nothing to do with political party or party member.” By the fact you use the word “nothing” shows you’re in denial of your own biases. If you were truly in touch with them you’d know all you can do is minimize. If you are a scientist, you’re showing the arrogance of science that causes the mistakes.
We’ve got happy camper making charges of Obama Administration corruption in the Superfund program, but he seems not to know any details. I’m not sure I can believe much of what he’s claiming. He says some relative saw it, but this relative didn’t do the right thing and try to resolve it, whistle blow on it or anything but complain to happy camper, apparently. I don’t know if I believe any of his story. He didn’t say where this was, so we can’t see if anyone has been charged.
If he’s claiming that Superfund wastes money, I suppose it’s like any other government program that uses private contracting. Privatizing the work of governmental generates lots of waste. Look at the borehole project, where the government paid for public relations firms to help sell the project to local communities. WASTE. But this is garden variety government-private contractor waste. If happy camper is against this kind of waste, I can support efforts to rein it in, but he won’t give specifics so we are left with not much.
I’m not sure why happy camper didn’t email Sen. Rounds, who is supposed to have had some oversight responsibility for Superfund, but has done absolutely nothing on the issue. When you have lazy and incompetent people doing oversight, you can expect waste and corruption.
You can google “corruption in Superfund,” and quite a number of articles pertaining to the Trump Administration, not many in the Obama Administration.
The corruption I’ve seen in Superfund cleanups involved attempts by Williams Pipeline to get out of its responsibility to clean up spills in Sioux Falls. It whined continuously about the trouble they had to go through to actually clean up the toxic mess they caused and tried to game the system. They didn’t have much luck once they got stuck in the Superfund Program at the suggestion of Governor Mickelson. That was the best thing Mickelson did for the environment.
camper sits out in the middle of nowhere plus a couple of miles, and talks trash without proof. Sounds like a trump and quacks like a trump. No links, just blather. You know, we still do not know the details of the last major oil pipeline leak. Yup, that bad boy even made national news and yet…crickets. How big was it? natta
Happy Camper predictably asks about my tribe’s bias, which is absolutely as strong and ingrained as his tribe’s bias.
Dakota Free Press is mostly a tribal battleground.
~ One large difference is the process the tribes use to address criticism. My tribe first looks to see if the criticism is from a valid and neutral information source. Often (on DFP) highly biased and invalid sources come from the other tribe and are dismissed by us as unfactual and invalid. If the criticism toward my tribe is valid, then the problem is addressed. Obama addressed problems with a fair eye towards what the other tribe needed.
~ HC’s tribe, when criticized answers with, “Your tribe is doing it, too.” That’s the difference. Trump addresses problems without taking my tribe’s needs into consideration. Trump’s a walking talking crime in progress. People are in the penitentiary for doing things Trump paid them to do. And … we haven’t even begun to investigate his breeches of the emoluents clause.
~ Bias is strong in both tribes. Mine tends to be aware of ours and looks to fix it. HC’s tribe tends to ignore or dismiss theirs and look for “what aboutism” as their justification.
~ Life in a state with such high numbers of one tribe yet still within a country where that tribe is a minority is where HC’s tribe’s only strength lies. Maybe that’s the justification for staying put, being stubborn and being afraid of new ideas from elsewhere.
Richard Schriever wrote:
Jason – “….humans cannot control the environment.” What is farming if not controlling the environment (what plants grow where and when, where water comes from and where it is routed to – irrigation). What is agriculture if not the root of all science? Seriously – you are a total miscreant.
I meant to say “climate”
o wrote
Right, and your paper listed the correlation of two actors: seismic activity and carbon loading (manmade activity) and put the correlation of both roughly equal (in statistical correlation terms).
From the study:
“multiple regression indicates that CO2 does not explain a significant percentage of the total variance (P > 0.1) when paired with HGFA MAG4/6 activity (P < 0.05). As a result, HGFA MAG4/6 is retained as a significant predictor while CO2 is removed from the analysis (Table 2).
Regarding correlation of seismic events to global warming, there are quite of bit of science ignored. What matters is not the correlation of seismic events to warming. What matters is the amount of heat transfer. You can have a billion-fold increase in seismicity which results in a transfer of a puny amount more of energy that is already a puny amount in the overall global heat budget. And that happens to be the case here. Nice try, but no cigar, Jason.
I’m not in a tribe – I consider myself a Classical Liberal/Libertarian which allows a more independent view of both sides. I do appreciate Porter sees that his tribe has an ingrained bias, but he fails when saying they are more fair and corrective. His description of the process led to quite a chuckle, and if we listen to Richard those statements are completely subjective and without validity.
Donald, Richard made a good point that the two people I know have only subjective judgments it would be illogical to take any such anonymous postings seriously. Their experiences were before Trump and Rounds, but forget it was mentioned. I do wish I could explain more about how the money gets doled out to the schools from Washington, the process itself, my friend’s explanation was eye-opening, but it’s been too long.
Pee Wee Camper sez … “I’m not in a tribe. You are!” There you have it, Chairy.
Donald Pay wrote:
What matters is the amount of heat transfer. You can have a billion-fold increase in seismicity which results in a transfer of a puny amount more of energy that is already a puny amount in the overall global heat budget. And that happens to be the case here. Nice try, but no cigar, Jason.
It’s like you didn’t even read the study.
From the study:
Despite the fact that the total amount of heat from geothermal sources is thought to be relatively small, numerous studies have shown their impact to be significant. Carmack et al. [11] show that underwater geothermal heat can trigger thermobaric convection (TC), a ventilating mechanism that raises the thermocline, amplifying the transfer of heat from the ocean to the overlying atmosphere [12]. In Polar Regions, this can destroy the cold, mixed layer, exposing warm, saltier water underneath within a short period of time. Geothermal heating of bottom water also increases the strength of oceanic overturning [13], and is responsible for increasing Pacific basin temperatures by 0.5°C three km below the surface [14].
Do climate deniers have a death wish? Do they all think they’re doing God’s work by hastening The End?
Jason,
The study is compete garbage. The heat transfer is still small. You can amplify the transfer of heat to deep waters but if the heat amount of heat transfer to the atmosphere is miniscule, which it is, it still doesn’t matter. Please read up on this. These studies take some information from scientific findings and distort it by not filling in all the information. They are meant to fool people like you. The “doubt industry” counts on people like you who don’t understand the entire picture.
Mr. Lansing, my tribe is mostly made of derelicts and misfits, who, like I, are replete with filthy clothes, shoes without socks, bearded, unkempt and unwashed. Stinky-and-we-know-it-clap-your-hands derelict. Sometimes. Othertimes I bathe and go out in public for breakfast.
Donald pay,
Link to evidence backing your claim.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/johnson-and-johnson-knew-its-baby-powder-was-tainted-with-asbestos-report?ref=home
J&J knew since 1971 their baby powder was contaminated with asbestos and they lied and covered it up. Now they are finally facing liability for their deceit.
Sounds like wingnut’s kind of people. Profit above all else.
https://www.iflscience.com/environment/we-finally-know-what-caused-those-three-months-of-earthquake-swarms-in-yellowstone/
The end is not near, yet.
Hmmmm….
https://energynews.us/2018/12/10/midwest/after-bitter-fight-in-minnesota-gas-plant-debate-moves-to-wisconsin/
“We have no more time for fossil fuels,” she said. “Natural gas as bridge to renewable energy has expired and we need to invest in battery storage, renewables and other zero carbon options.”
We have a long way to go when 90% of our total energy comes from fossil fuels today. The transition is just starting, not ending.
I am still waiting Donald.
I would love to see him run. Check out his final speech on this year’s “24 Hours of Reality”. In 2020 let’s run as the Democratic (renewable energy) Party.
John,
Republicans aren’t against renewable energy.
Yes they are, Jason, as surely as they are against taking serious steps to decrease fossil fuel usage and take serious steps to curb anthropogenic climate change.
John, I believe serious, dedicated, ticket-spanning environmentalism is a key component that SD Democrats failed to deploy in 2018 (and 2016, and 2014) and that we can win on in 2020.
Cory,
Just because Republicans don’t fund something doesn’t mean they are against it.
Why should US taxpayers subsidize something that doesn’t help to reduce taxes in the future?
It is impossible for renewable energy to replace fossil fuels.
Are you ready to discuss all of the Democrats that voted for oil and gas subsidies?
“Just because Republicans don’t fund something doesn’t mean they are against it.”
It’s a flashing neon sign. It’s always wiser to watch what they do rather than what they say. Pootiepublicans have worked hard over time to become the party of liars, now led by their hero, and undisputed champeen! The Liar-in-Chief!!
That quote is one of the funniest things humor impaired Jason has ever said.
😂🤪🤣🤪😂🤪🤣
Energy policy is zero-sum. Although Republicans may not always be overtly anti-renewables, their continued pro-fossile fuel stances do that job for them. The most irritating part of this whole discussion is that the GOP pretends that big-oil/gas/coal are somehow not subsidized by them in the market place. There is also a refusal to acknowledge the detrimental and EXPENSIVE foreign, environmental and military policies that especially oil policy pulls the US into. The big lie is the oil pays its own way and if renewables would do the same then markets would decide.
Republicans DO fund oil directly and indirectly; that is a barrier to renewables getting market share.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/exxon-mobil-trump-environment-kathleen-hartnett-white_us_5c1d006fe4b08aaf7a88135c
Exxon attorney wrote kremlin annex comments about new EPA chief. Who is running the gubmint? Not Drumpf.
This is absolutely unbelievable- ccording to MoJo’s Rebecca Leber, the Environmental Protection Agency (protecting the environment is right there in its name!) is now “fact-checking” the multi-agency, peer-reviewed National Climate Assessment with citations to… The Daily Caller. What could go wrong?
Fact checking with citations to Tucker Carlson?
600 plus people still unaccounted for in the fires in California.
“More than 1,000 people are listed as missing in the wake of the Northern California wildfire known as the Camp Fire, authorities say. It’s a number that has ballooned rapidly and is expected to continue to fluctuate. The Butte County Sheriff’s Office had said on Thursday evening there were 631 people unaccounted for.” https://www.npr.org/2018/11/16/668552010/more-than-600-people-now-missing-in-californias-deadliest-fire
Like New Underwood or Woonsocket (gotta love those melons) just disappearing without a trace. Climate change is real.
https://www.npr.org/2018/12/28/679129613/trump-epa-says-mercury-limits-on-coal-plants-too-costly-not-necessary
Drumpf EPA wants to remove regulations limiting emissions of Mercury and other toxins. They stay in place for now, but…….
Bah Zing!!Germany now is powered mostly by renewable energy. The perfect time for a feller like Al Gore to be our president.
“”Renewable sources of energy overtook coal as Germany’s main power source for the first time over 2018, a study suggests.
Solar, wind, biomass and hydroelectric generation rose 4.3 per cent last year to account for 40 per cent of German electricity production in 2018, up from 38.2 per cent in 2017 and 19.1 per cent in 2010.
Over the course of the year, 38 per cent of the country’s power was generated from coal, researchers said.” These German folks, they manufacture a lot of stuff there and they are doing with with the sun and the wind. How about that!!
They are shutting down local coal mines and getting it from the U.S. and Russia. Not part of the plan.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/01/renewables-led-by-wind-provided-more-power-than-coal-in-germany-in-2018/
“Reuters notes that critics are claiming favorable weather patterns, rather than sustainable growth, helped the country produce more renewable energy this year than last year. ”
Heating and transportation are still difficult to do without relying on an energy-intensive power source…and without nuclear that means fossil fuels.
And that is where you’re incorrect Doc.
“”We will not fall below 40 per cent in 2019 because more renewable installations are being built and weather patterns will not change that dramatically,” he said.
Green power sceptics have said the high renewable power output reflects favourable weather patterns and does not prove the sector’s contribution to secure energy supplies.
But other European countries dependent on coal since the industrial revolution have also begun to see the beginning of the end of its dominance.” https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/renewable-energy-germany-coal-power-environment-green-solar-wind-a8711176.html
Put Al Gore in the White House and we can begin a real level of prosperity, riding on the green train…. Like France built for Germany…hydrogen powered… Gotta love that Doc.
Germany has not solved the intermittency problem yet. Sending the excess energy somewhere is fine for now, but once the penetration of renewables exceeds a certain level that will not be feasible for maintaining a stable grid. I’d rather make up the difference with nuclear instead of gas….especially if storage does not work well enough.
Nuclear is also resistant to EMP (electromagnetic pulse), which can occur by natural processes from the Sun (i.e. too much solar power!) or from devices delivered into orbit by North Korea, Russia, or China. The current plants can shut down safely, and the new ones remove heat passively if power is lost. Those are the reactors you can walk away from if there is ever a disruption…you gotta love that jerry!!!
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2019/01/03/can-nuclear-power-plants-resist-attacks-of-electromagnetic-pulse-emp/
That is one issue with an over-reliance on wind and solar and an avoidance of nuclear. It is also better to displace fossil fuel with wind and solar and keep the carbon-free power from nuclear intact.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-07/xcel-ceo-says-nuclear-power-is-key-to-meeting-goal-to-cut-carbon
“If you are shutting down your coal fleet, it’s pretty hard to shut down your nuclear fleet at the same time and still offer reliable power to customers.”
https://futurism.com/the-byte/nuclear-energy-can-save-earth
In an nutshell, the authors state that only nuclear can ramp up in time to meet our power demands without emitting carbon before the climate reaches the tipping point. A Germany-style approach applied to all nations will simply take too long.
Good take, Dr. McT. I am reading the newsletter now, but it’s always refreshing when one posts a blue link and gives their take, instead of just trying to sucker some unsuspecting old fellow into clicking it.
Agree completely