For another stark partisan split on pandemic response, check out the starkly opposed responses South Dakota Democrats and Republicans gave the SDSU Poll on their support for “vaccination passports”:
The news release does not indicate how or whether the survey defined “vaccination passports”, but whatever they think such things are, only 7% of Democrats told The SDSU Poll that they oppose vaccination passports. 75% of the Republican respondents said they oppose this reasonable and well-precedented policy for controlling a pandemic.
The same survey found a similar inversion on this issue between old folks and young folks:
57% of respondents under 65 oppose vaccine passports; only 25% of respondents 65 and older oppose making vaccination a pre-requisite for certain jobs or activities.
I hope that the Republicans who oppose vaccine mandates don’t want to go on any vacations outside the US – they’re in for a rude awakening that their preferences and opinions on Covid are completely irrelevant to the rest of the world.
Good point, Eve: vaccine requirements for entry into other countries aren’t up to us.
I wasn’t in the least surprised that 46% of 65 and over geezers (like me) are supportive of vaccination passports. I was born in 1956 and was blessed and lucky enough to have parents and community that told us to siddown, shuddup and take your MMR, DPT, polio, smallpox, chickenpox, tuberculosis, and tetanus shots or inoculations (sp?) and boosters. We were compelled, but, oh, so lucky.
Well..I’m more of a geezer than Bonnie and was born in the midst of a polio epidemic. Grew up with several classmates who were disabled to one degree or another by polio and our school district was the only one in the area to admit “crippled” kids so I grew up with a constant awareness of life’s fragility. Cannot believe the total ignorance and persistent unthinking stubbornness of the anti-vax crowd…all I can say is “Go Joe…push the vaccine”.
I agree with you, ArloBlundt. I cannot imagine the bottomless, drooling stupidity of the bags of meat that refuse to get “the shot.”
Arlo: I’m probably a middle-geezer between you and Bonnie, but young as I was I still remember both of my parents taking me to the Custer High School for my polio vaccine and the obvious relief on their faces as we walked out. I was safe from a terrible threat to my health and well-being! Today I feel the same way about every family member and friend who has gotten the vaccine, and (to a selfish degree) about everyone I saw leaving our local vaccination site. Why selfish? Because that’s one less spreader to threaten others, or even me!
We have the means, now we need the intelligence. But even if there were a proven and effective “smarts shot” some would refuse it ’cause it might make them rethink their decisions! Or make them magnetic?
Ya’all be younguns
Black Hills Hermit. I adore the middle-geezer designation between ArloBlundt and me. Wish I’d thunk of it first, and it makes me happy, and I can surely use this.
I was accused by a friend today that, when I had my second jab of the Moderna on June 16, I gave him the “Rona” six days later. I’m afraid most people I know in Fall River County are too stupid to breathe.
In Denver, you now have to show a vaccine card to get into shows at the Arts Complex.
That’s symphony, opera, ballet, and theatre. Movie theatres will be the same, October 01.
And, no fake cards. There’s a website (My Colorado Card) where you have to scan/upload your drivers license or state I.D. and it accesses your permanent file, where your card shows up real quick on your phone. I suppose that’s a Vaccine Passport, huh?
Restaurant workers are masked, again
The grocery stores request masks, again and compliance is similar to 2020.
I’d estimate about 75%.
The Republican county, between Denver and Colorado Springs has removed itself from the 75 year old Tri-County Health group because MAGA’s can’t stand to live in a Joe Biden country. #grins
More evidence that our differences are irreconcilable, and that formal political separation is the only solution. I mean, look at the comments in this thread! Look at how you are describing half your fellow Americans:
“total ignorance and persistent unthinking stubbornness”
“bottomless, drooling stupidity of the bags of meat that refuse to get “the shot.””
“too stupid to breathe.”
And that’s just it — we aren’t “fellows” anymore. We are enemies, permanently and eternally. I don’t want to share a country with you, or have any political relationship whatsoever. I want you and your way of thinking purged from my life.
Surely most of you feel the same way about me, and the other 150 million Americans who agree with me. So let’s just find some way to formalize it.
Wow, we are enemies over a vaccine shot that saves lives. Sounds like you are ready to snap and I’m convinced it’s because of more than just a shot. You are in a very dark place and it’s not just South Dakota.
Formal political separation, enemies permanently and eternally, purged from my life, some way to formalize it. Those are some strong words young man. I really hope you don’t have any guns because you need some serious help.
No need to be disingeneous about a vaccination, Neal–the real issue is the 150 million American patriots whose rights apparently entitle them to spread a dangerous and sometimes deadly disease under the guise of freedom.
I wasn’t sure the word “protoplasm” was quite the word, so I substituted “meat.”
Actually, don’t most places accept a negative COVID-19 test? Seems to me there is an option to crossing the line. Are the anti-vaccine group members opposed to testing?
M, if you’ve been paying attention you’d know that I’m advocating a peaceful, amicable separation. We all agree on the desired outcome. We should be able to accomplish that civilly.
And SD is hardly a dark place. It’s the greatest place to be right now. Your side is a clear minority here. You have no influence.
All of the adult ICU beds at Monument Health in Rapid City are occupied and at least 70% of those beds are occupied by patients infected with COVID-19.
Bonnie said: “No need to be disingeneous about a vaccination, Neal–the real issue is the 150 million American patriots whose rights apparently entitle them to spread a dangerous and sometimes deadly disease under the guise of freedom.”
You’re right, it’s not just about the “vaccine” — it’s about your unhinged totalitarian response to the entire event. Yes, 150m people agree with me. That alone should tell you the situation is beyond repair.
1 in 500 Americans has died from the Trump Virus and the vast majority of those were Republicans in red states.
Neal. “So let’s just find some way to formalize it.” I believe this is the juncture that conservatives say: this IS America, love it or leave it. This nation works on a democracy (sort of). Republicans have skewed that process to their favor, but still have to tolerate majority rule when it is not them in the majority. That seems the breaking point for you: you (and so many of your 150 million) are not wiling to allow a democratic (small d) majority call the shots. You still have ALL of your civil rights in the minority; you have the ability to mount a response through elections to put someone who governs the way you wish, but all that means nothing to you unless you win.
The great irony is that you get just the slightest taste of what ACTUAL minorities have suffered — minorities you deride for speaking up — and you are looking to abandon the central tenants of the nation you pay lip service to loving.
If you and the secessionist conservatives who would follow you ever get your wish, the selfish, self-destructive core of modern conservative/MAGA/GOP would eat your collective like an unchecked cancer.
O, my problem is not with democracy or the results of the election. That’s Dale’s thing.
My problem is with unconstitutional, authoritarian actions taken (and contemplated) by the president.
My other (much smaller) problem is the way you and your side talks about me and my side. You don’t get to call me “too stupid to breathe” and wish literal death upon me (like Don does) and think that we will continue to maintain a civic relationship. We won’t.
Fortunately, most of you have already left my state, so at least that relationship is severed.
Authoritarianism is what the South Dakota Legislature and Republican dominated Supreme Court is doing with women’s rights and the wills of voters but don’t confuse the extreme white wing with facts.
Neal, how do you come to the conclusion that the President’s actions are unconstitutional? (I presume we are talking vaccine mandates?). How is this any different from an evacuation order before a hurricane? The government has a responsibility to serve the public good — or do we disagree fundamentally about public health? Again, you call this action authoritarian, I call it proper authority. For the record, I called it proper when the Governor did it (momentarily) and would support any party making this decision for public health. Anyone can disagree, anyone can petition for redress, you can even civil disobey and accept the legal consequences, but you are talking secession and that is treason.
I am sorry the name calling is hurtful. Liberals certainly are not unique in name calling. I would, however, ask you to reflect on all the times the right has taken this to the physical level — threats or actual. Second Amendment remedies is not even a veiled threat. Storming the Capitol in DC was not the work of patriots, but treasonous secessionists.
I have not left this state. I am in constant struggle to get candidates whose values I more align with elected. I also abide by the rules of the elected officials who I do not align with. That is the social contract of a democracy.
Neal–You would turn the country into Yugoslavia??? We are Americans living under a constitution not Croations, Bosnians, Serbs, and Montenegrins battling to establish tribal dominance.
O, I look forward to Neal’s explanation for his assertion “that the President’s actions are unconstitutional,” but I am not holding my breath. On the other hand, slience in response to your question surely speaks as loud as would Neal’s confession of just making things up that fit his particular personal constituional wishful thinking.
Neal, I don’t wish death on YOU. Don’t take yourself so seriously. I don’t, you lying putz. Again, I have to repeat what I’ve said a number of times. I direct you to the trolley dilemma. I hope for the death of selfish people whose selfishness would kill others. If that includes you, then, yes, if you get infected with covid, I want you to die quickly before you infect others.
If you thought beyond your own selfishness, you wouldn’t need Joe Biden to tell you what you are going to do. I don’t give a damn about your “constitutional rights,” if you are loaded with covid and purposely spreading it around. I’d shoot you on the spot. I remember back to the AIDs epidemic, whwn there were AIDS infected people who thought they had a constitutional right to have sex and spread it around. How would you like that person to have unprotected sex with you, you putz? Myself, I wouldn’t like it. But you, I suppose, would spread your cheeks and say, “Infect me, big boy.” In other words, stick your selfishness where the sun don’t shine.
In all fairness, Mr. Pay, it is known you have wished death upon people on quite a few occasions. You wished it upon grudznick at least once.
So stop being so touchy about being called a death-wisher and stop being such an out-of-state name-caller. You bring it on yourself. But grudznick loves you…you know, from back in the day. When you lived in the Great State of South Dakota.
Neal, you are personally in a dark place. You are not alright. You need help as in psychological.
Grudznick, As you know, you are a fictional character, a type of sleazeball that Carl Hiaasen might draw if he wrote novels about draws about South Dakota, rathen than Florida. So, yeah, you are expected to die some sort of awful death, and you know it. Don’t take it personally and accept your fate. You deserve it, you know. But really, you’re not really alive in the first place, and if I direct you to die, well, it isn’t personal, but required for plot development.
Arlo said: “We are Americans living under a constitution not Croations, Bosnians, Serbs, and Montenegrins battling to establish tribal dominance.”
Again, I’m suggesting an amicable split — no battles and no tribal dominance. The borders between redstate and bluestate America are already pretty well defined. Shouldn’t be too hard to finalize a formal political split.
Now, an even better solution would be to return to the type of federalism envisioned by the founders, with the states free to determine their own identity. Then we could maybe remain as one country. But that’s a pipe dream at this point.
bcb said: “O, I look forward to Neal’s explanation for his assertion “that the President’s actions are unconstitutional,” but I am not holding my breath.”
C’mon man, you of all people know that the constitution does not grant the executive branch the power to unilaterally determine health policy for private employers. And to the extent that it’s a safety issue, the police power has always been reserved to the states.
It’s a preposterous reach, without a single shred of support in Article 2 — or anywhere else in the Constitution. I’ve always respected your legal mind. Don’t blow it staking out a completely indefensible position on this.
Too many real American patriots have fought and died for Old Glory to allow magats to waltz off with half the states to start their own Reichstag on American soil. They are free to gtfo and go to a parallel universe with all their guns and their racist wasicu ways and good riddance!
They will kill each other off by guns or disease and the world will be better off.
Neal, The federal courts have uniformly rejected constitutional challenges to government vaccine mandates, so long as they don’t single out one demographic group in a way that’s discriminatory. The Supreme Court has done so since the 1905 case Jacobson v. Massachusetts. Additionally, the Biden mandate is NOT vaccines only, individuals can comply by testing. The President is not directly mandating private businesses – only federal employees and facilities that rely on federal funds. The Labor Department is drafting those rules (albeit at the Presidents request). You cannot take the position that regulatory agencies cannot regulate workplace conditions.
I also cannot see where you draw the line on acceptable health codes and the Biden vaccine/test mandate. Fundamentally, last are set up to protect the public good against individual “freedoms” that harm that good.
Finally, federal (therefore Presidential) action is necessitated because the pandemic is national in nature; secondly, political grandstanding has rendered state leaders incapable of protecting the national interests of public health.
Neal, you might want to review my inquiry as I simply echoed O’s question about exactly what Presidential actions you asserted to be unconstituional. I took no position that the President acted in a constitutional or unconstitutional manner in my comment because you had not yet identified the reasons for your claim that the President violated the Constitution, and I was not aware of any particular unconstitutional conduct by President Biden (although I was anxious to learn what such unconstitutional policies I may have overlooked). And although I didn’t expect you to respond, I appreciate that you did respond with the statement: “the constitution does not grant the executive branch the power to unilaterally determine health policy for private employers,” which identifies your concern.
And I agree with the principle that executive action must be based on a delegation of power from Congress, absent some express constiutuional authority to act. Here, if I am not mistaken, Congress enacted a program covering certain larger employers aimed at protecting the health and safety of workers. The agency Congress created is referred to as OSHA, an acronym for the Department of Labor’s Occupational Safety and Health Administration. OSHA is part of the executive branch, which is directly under the President’s authority, hence the statement “the constitution does not grant the executive branch the power to unilaterally determine health policy for private employers” seems inapplicable. The President did not act “unilaterally,” rather he acted according to the powers delegated by Congress.
Perhaps you contend that Congress did not explicity or implicitly delegate such broad authority to OSHA, or perhaps specifically prohibited OSHA from regulating health policies of covered private employees? If so, I am unaware of any legal basis for that theory, but I could be wrong. And if that is your contention perhaps you can identify the source for such a proposition?