Guess who doesn’t like Donald Trump’s proposal to allow more ethanol in your gas tank? Big Oil, which wants all of your gas tank!
Todd Epp reports that the American Petroleum Institute may take Trump to court for abusing his executive authority:
The API doesn’t think Trump has the authority to mandate year around sales of E-15 as he announced last week. He says they may litigate the issue.
“If the Administration really wants to fix the RFS (Renewable Fuel Standards), it needs to address both the ethanol industry’s concerns and the oil and gas industry’s concerns,” [API VP Frank] Macchiarola said. “The best way to do it is through comprehensive legislative reforms” [Todd Epp, “American Petroleum Institute Not So Big on E-15,” KELO Radio, 2018.10.17].
Macciarola says consumers don’t want more ethanol:
“You see more and more consumers’ demand for E-0 (no ethanol) rising,” Macchiarola said. “The demand for E-85 has remained steady or fallen during that same time” [Epp, 2018.10.17].
But a drop in biofuel demand resulted from the Trump EPA’s earlier ding on ethanol, the favor-waivers it gave to refiners to ignore the ethanol mandate:
But with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency now exempting smaller refineries from the federal mandate they blend ethanol into the fuel supply, farmers and ethanol producers are arguing ethanol demand could be in decline.
“The waivers have resulted in a significant decline in demand for biofuels and have cost U.S. corn growers, ethanol producers, and ethanol blenders more than $5 billion in economic losses,” the Renewable Fuel Association said in a statement last weekend [James Osborne, “Has Ethanol Hit Its Peak?” Houston Chronicle, 2018.09.13].
Whatever the demand, I welcome the spectacle of the Dick Cheney oil industry taking Donald Trump to court for exceeding his Executive authority.
“You see more and more consumers’ demand for E-0 (no ethanol) rising,” Macchiarola said.
E-O is good for my lawnmowers and tiller, but for my Jeep I prefer paying around 30 cents per gallon less for the 10% ethanol than the unleaded.
Mike from Iowa is correct demand for E 0 Why do we want to burn are food supply? Raise food cost for the poor?
Ethonal is a highly corrosive product and even I. Flex autos it does do damage.
I try to avoid ethonal gas.
When will big-oil suffer the fate of big-tobacco? As scientific evidence compounds on the harmful effects of their product, as big-oil continue to use political maneuvering and mis-information as a butress against that reality, everyone has to know that the truth eventually wins out in the end — just like it did with the truth about the health effects of tobacco use.
Now the rats are abandoning the ship. Exxon is looking to “do the right thing” to promote a carbon tax — as long as Exxon is also held harmless for the damage climate change from their product has caused. So it looks like the odds makers inside big-oil are seeing it is time to start protecting their flank.
Ethanol is an effective farm subsidy. It is bad energy policy; it is bad environmental policy. If we could ever figure out how to use corn for food . . .
Corn is for eatin’ and drinkin’. Forget about anything else. Buy up lots of Sea Foam if you use those corn fixin’s in your lawm mower, that is some corrosive crap.
I drove my previous Impala for almost 400,000 miles, using primarily E-10, occasionally E-85. Current Impala has 280,000 miles, hoping for 400,000 from it. Still waiting to see all this “corrosion.”
Ethanol supposedly eats up gasket material in small engines/outboard motors. These guys might know something about it- https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/03/gas-with-ethanol-can-make-small-engines-fail/index.htm
Been using ethanol (most often E85) in our 2012 full-size SUV for six years, and several vehicles before this one. No engine problems whatsoever. Sometimes use E15 or E30 when we travel and can’t find E85. No difference except a couple of miles less per gallon with E85, but more power when needed. And 75 cents to a buck less per gallon. Fossil fuel/big oil propaganda.
Sam, I burn food all the time… on my bike! Gets me around Aberdeen with great efficiency. The exhaust can be a little ripe….
District 2 House candidate Mike McHugh says in every stump speech that he’s put over a million miles on his farm vehicles with some blend of ethanol or another, and he reports no problems.
You can’t judge ethanol on feelings. You need to use “science”. How ethanol affects every vehicle differs on the type of engine you have. A large pre-2002 vehicle uses polymer based fuel lines, vacuum hoses and gaskets. The higher the ethanol level you run in those engines the quicker those components dry, crack and fail. Ethanol raises the octane in fuel but lowers the flash point of the fuel meaning it burns more quickly but not as efficiently. This means that more liquid fuel makes it past your pistons unburned. The normal post -2002 vehicle running fuel with 10% ethanol normally experience a decrease in mileage of 6-10% so you need to do the math to figure which is actually better for your vehicle. So, if gas with no ethanol is $3.00/gallon the E10 needs to be $2.82 to $2.70/gallon to get the same value. The problem of ethanol isn’t so much fuel mileage but the impact it leaves on the environment. All those algae blooms on the Gulf Coast that kills millions of millions fish, dolphins and sea life, yep, run off from the nitrogen they use to grow corn. I guess we all need to just decide: Is saline important or is burning food for fuel important? Since the effects of the ethanol industry is so quick we should all ponder this until world warms up. Of course sea life will die off much earlier due to ethanol production so we will all starve well before the earth heats to the point life ends. Have fun celebrating ethanol as using corn for fuel because it is an “environmentally friendly” use. . . Oh, I figured it out. Most of you are just NCPs. Sweet.
My car burns E85. When I was in Iowa it was nearly a buck cheaper than regular. In Minnesota it’s 20c less. A couple weeks ago when I drove across SD on I 90 I couldn’t find E85. When I asked, the most common response was “What’s that?” Even Cenex stations seemed clueless. Does SD even have E85? If so, where do you hide it?
From what I’ve read, there are several other crops, non-food, that would provide ethanol more efficiently than corn. Correct? I’m assuming farm state senators like the repugnant grASSley of Iowa are responsible. Also correct?
Debbo we have a few E85 stations in our area. Well. . . We have one in Kyle, Crows Truck Stop in Box Elder and one on Canyon Lake Drive in Rapid. There may be more now. When I was with USDA they said I was required to use E85 since my car was capable but they had to give me a waiver since so few stations carried it. E85 about 20 cents less per gallon but the mileage is even worse. The less alcohol you run in a gas engine the longer your engine will last. If you are making those long drives you are safer in the winter season to use gasoline. Alcohol attracts moisture (water) and it causes engine failures in extremely cold weather. Use it in the summer.
Equating a lawn mower with an Impala kinda makes sense if you think of them both on the Plains of the Serengeti, mowing the grass. One lawn mower is smart enough not to eat corn and the other is dependent on a pump. No, there is a difference.
Beer is gonna be an endangered species, so why not drop the corn and beans and grow what people really want? They want beer, it makes them jolly good fellows. We know that there is a shortage right now and it will get worse, so be proactive and put some barley in to save the world on important stuff.
E85 is more like 75 cents cheaper than regular. Can’t say what it is right now, because it fluctuates. But that’s more the norm than anything I’ve seen here. And it isn’t burning food for fuel. Cattle have been eating corn for centuries and they still can eat the corn after the oil is removed.
Big Oil and fossil fuel special interests like the Koch Brothers with the help of social media have done a number on ALL renewable fuels. And too many fall for the propaganda. I’ve always said that when Big Oil gets control financially and scientifically of renewable fuels, THEN they will change their propaganda and it will become the only thing we all should use.
koch bros got after Congress to raise taxes on solar panels so koch bros oil would be more competitive. Must be nice to own a congressanimal of fifty.
E85 prices » Iowa
https://e85prices.com/iowa.html
Avg E0 (No ethanol) Price: $3.30. Avg E10 (10% ethanol) Price: $2.76. Avg E15 Price: $2.63, Avg E85 Price $2.26, Avg Price Spread vs E0 33.6% Avg Price …
Missing: gasahol | Must include: gasahol
Robin wins the internets today.
BTW Producer’s Coop in Gaza iowa sell unleaded reg at $2.99 and E-10 at $2.69 today at the pump.
Does the lower prices justify the low gas mileage though? To me, it is a trade off, or does anyone still do that or do you look at what your vehicle says you’re getting?
Jerry, i3 drive a 2013 Ford Focus. The difference in mpg between E85 and regular is around 2-4.
On the interstate, there is more of a difference. Add the speed. I have and there is a bigger difference. I also speak to folks who spend time on the road as I do. Ask a biker how their units perform with the alcohol mix in the tank only and hey will tell you that they add a booster to get the performance up. They always go for the 91 and that is why it is now in most, if not all the stations on the interstate. Pull a trailer or make the motor work a little and it shows up when you put a pencil to it. Trick is, drive your vehicle at around 72, no more, then the alcohol will dollar out if you’re not pulling anything. That 80 miles an hour, really means 90, which is okay if you have money to burn cause that is what you’re doing.
As crazy as I thought W. Bush was in talking about hydrogen, I see the results now in Germany that tend to prove him right in that regard. Corn is for eating and drinking, not to waste while people are starving in this world.
I’m talking interstate miles. I 35 in Iowa where E85 was easy to find.
I 90 in SD where it was impossible.
Good for you, I have not been so fortunate…unless I drive at 72 or lower…and not pulling a trailer. I have not used the E15 only the mix that is at the pump. I did one time use the E15 in an older Bonneville Pontiac, damned near killed it. Had to drain it and put some high test in it. Corn is for eating and drinking. There has got to be a better way for farmers to farm other than farming to burn it.
But then, there is this “CHINESE CARMAKER NIO, the world’s newest electric vehicle unicorn, has a big idea: battery swapping. In theory, the process is quicker and more convenient than a fast charge. A driver rolls into a battery swap station, and a robot replaces the drained battery with a fully charged spare. But even though NIO’s battery swapping stations are already deployed in major cities across China, retail investors don’t seem to be taking NIO’s swap network seriously.” So there ya go. Farmers, the time has come to figure what crop will do the most for the work put in. Think about what kind of food can be produced on our acreage to make a profit without putting the farm at risk for the market changes we are seeing now. Soybeans are being stored in bins that cost a whole lot of green and for what rainy day is coming? The long term trends seem to be showing that there will be more of a trickle than a flood for that dried storage.
45th uses the mostly-dead Kansas economic model, when he should use the vibrant California economic model. If one substitutes South Dakota for Kansas the results are similar.
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-10-19/trump-models-u-s-economy-on-kansas-that-s-a-mistake
So then, water will not be an issue for us then with more ethanol. The only thing saving ranchers right now is the availability of the water coming from the Big Mo and underground aquifers. Three (3 for the Russians) gallons of water for every gallon of ethanol is not a good trade. Water is life. Corn is for eatin and drinkin.
Ask a Corvette or Camaro owner how that fuel works with their rides. “Toyota RAV4 (2018) Owners Manual: Fuel information. You must only use unleaded gasoline in your vehicle. Select octane rating 87 (research octane number 91) or higher. Use of unleaded gasoline with an octane rating lower than 87 may result in engine knocking.” Don’t come a rockin’ if the engine is knockin’ or something like that.
Trump is freezing 37 mpg after 2020 despite Obama’s 54 mpg by 2025. EPA incentivizes “go big” SUV/lt. trucks w/ lower efficiency. Trump tackles CA’s leading stricter tailpipe emissions(1/3 of all USA auto sales). Consumers loose $6000 annual fuel savings per car. Week, 8.24.18
Whoa! Tesla up, way up in after hours trading. Profitable and gaining steam fast. Keep the oil boys and drown in it. First profitable quarter in two years!
“Documents filed with the government in Shanghai this week showed that Tesla plans to make two different cars at the planned Gigafactory there. One will assuredly be the Model 3, which Musk said Wednesday he hopes to have in production by the end of 2019. The other could be the Model Y, but building a factory from scratch and putting two different cars into production might be a tall task.” https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/24/18020936/teslas-model-y-crossover-prototype-production
Bah zing! The more you sell, the lower the pricing gets. At 3 bucks a gallon for regular gas, dollar cost averaging starts to come into play big time. Plus, maybe an end to the blood and treasure trump seems to take for granted.
Hmm… too bad Tesla is going to build those cars in China, so we won’t be able to buy them without paying Trump’s higher taxes.
But I wonder: If Tesla can mass-produce an affordable car, and if electric cars take off, does the market for ethanol disappear, too? Does ethanol have any feasible use for energy production outside of automobiles?
Tesla plants in California and Nevada are running full production. So much that they are using a huge tent structure to build the cars. A few of these charging stations already in Rapid City and a charging station as well in Murdo, so the infrastructure is beginning. There would be no need for ethanol or oil in the near future.
The auto makers are ready to go with this as well and I think once they see what they are seeing now, they will make the move to affordable electric as they have the prototypes in play right now.
The deals in China were done before this new model crossover was in the market news, let’s see what happens to the short sellers that thought Tesla was history. Blood in the water for them.
If farmers were smart, they would lobby to produce hemp, that is the future.
Tesla lifts markets from free fall with high earnings report! Bah zing!
“Tesla Inc. stock rose 5% Thursday as Wall Street cheered the Silicon Valley car maker’s “truly historic” quarterly profit.
Some analysts tempered their enthusiasm, however, saying that one profitable quarter does not guarantee sustained, longer-term profit for Tesla. TSLA, +7.98%
Tesla stock rallied more than 12% after the company’s third-quarter results, which late Wednesday showed a surprise GAAP as well as adjusted per-share profit and sales that surpassed expectations.” https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tesla-stock-jumps-as-wall-street-cheers-historic-quarter-2018-10-25
Short sellers or “some analysts”, who didn’t see the train coming, are still in whine mode. More electric, less oil and less ethanol. Farmers, grow food not fuel.
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/10/26/18026074/big-oil-state-climate-initiatives
Big Awl is dropping bigly bucks tostop state initiatives for climate change this election season. They claim to be in favor of changes on the national level, but their priorities show a different reality in the states.
Great link mfi! Big Awl is us as we subsidize them so we can pay 3 bucks a gallon for regular gas with ethanol. There seems to be no end to it either…as long as we keep being suckered into paying to destroy ourselves.
Trade talks with China have been ended by Drumpf. Moar winning for American farmers who didn’t get much from new Canadian NAFTA.
In the meantime, Tesla China will start production in 2019! “Tesla is fast tracking its first overseas plant in Shanghai, China.
The Palo Alto, Calif.-based electric car maker reported its first profit in two years on Wednesday and announced an ambitious plan to move part of Model 3 production to China in 2019. This is a jump from its estimate three months ago when it said “it will take roughly two years until we start producing vehicles” in China.
In July, Tesla raised the price of its Model X and S cars by about 20% in China because of tariffs. The company wants to capture the world’s largest market for electric vehicles by pushing local production. “In order to significantly increase the affordability of Model 3, we have decided to accelerate our manufacturing timeline in China,” Tesla said on Wednesday.
The 213-acre land Tesla paid $140 million on is still in the early stages of an environmental impact assessment. Tesla also revealed its Chinese Gigafactory will sell only to domestic customers.” https://finance.yahoo.com/news/teslas-china-factory-will-make-250000-model-3s-model-ys-year-141536570.html
While trump dithers with “digging coal” China and the EU move ahead with renewable’s that do not require spending blood and treasure for. Send Tim Bjorkman to Washington and let Dirty Johnson keep shoveling coal and bovine matter.