Along with giving the Sanders campaign 80% of what it wants, the national Democratic Party platform, as drafted last weekend, rejects the poor-shaming misogyny of the Hyde and Helms Amendments, which prohibit the use of federal funds for abortion services in Medicaid and foreign aid.
National NARAL Pro-Choice president Ilyse Hogue says the Democrats’ progressive platform better represents the views of a majority of Americans than the medievalism of the GOP:
I can only imagine the conversations going on about these issues in the GOP platform, where the GOP controlled Congress just voted to make access to birth control more difficult in the middle of a Zika crisis; where leaders in the party often call to prohibit abortion even in the cases of rape, incest and the life of the mother; and where the presumptive nominee of their party has said that a woman who has an abortion should be punished and has pledged to appoint judges who would overturn Roe v. Wade.
If platforms are statements of collective values and a blueprint for candidates to follow once elected, the choice could not be more clear. The Democratic Party platform I will be voting for this weekend will include a commitment to reproductive freedom that represents the views of the majority of Americans and carries us into the future when every woman has access to her constitutional rights regardless of geography, income, or source of insurance and when we can expect public policy to support us and our families at every stage of our reproductive lives [Ilyse Hogue, “Why This Democratic Party Platform Is the Best Ever for Reproductive Freedom,” Morning Consult, 2016.07.08].
But what good is a strong national Democratic platform if Republicans keep using ALEC money to take over state legislatures and pass more restrictions on women’s reproductive rights?
Oh, I think Hogue and NARAL get that:
We have to be very focused, not only on getting our champion into the White House, but on the down-ballot races, because the harm is coming disproportionately from state legislatures.
We’ve been doing a lot to hold incumbents accountable for the unbelievable amount of times they’ve tried to restrict access to abortion. Their constituents did not elect them to do that, especially at the expense of all the important business that has not gotten done. In both the federal election and for local and state races, we’re making sure voters have the information to hold their officials accountable.
This is a long-term project. We’ve got to make gains in 2016, and come 2020 and 2022, I think we’re going to start seeing some of these state legislatures really shifting on these issues [Ilyse Hogue, interview by Rachel M. Cohen, “Q&A: The Abortion Battle’s Next Phase,” The American Prospect, 2016.07.12].
Hogue and NARAL get it just like Bernie Sanders: real progress means winning far more than the Presidency. Electing a woman President matters, but President Clinton will need legislators in every state to back her up, to prevent passage of more bad abortion laws, and maybe even make some progress in rolling back restrictions like South Dakota’s insulting 72-hour-plus abortion waiting period. If we want to win the country, we have to win the states.
One of the greatest failings of mankind, is the complicity in the killing of innocent babies.
Let not the ravages of time distort that I stand firmly against this evil practice.
I think everyone stands against the killing of innocent babies Stace. Thankfully killing babies still isn’t legal anywhere that I’m aware of.
Terminating an early term pregnancy however – that is still legal. No babies involved.
Well, here is a situation Stace can claim rightfully claim to be a minority as most of Americans are in favor of a woman’s right to choose.
Fortunately, there should be major changes in the makeup of the Scotus with a large tilt to the left after 40 years of wingnut domination.
The right Scotus will ensure equality for all and protect women’s rights.
Fortunately Stace will never have to make a decision on whether or not to terminate a pregnancy.
People who are seriously interested in reducing abortions would look to science and statistics to further their cause. The way to reduce abortion is education. General education in addition to sex education and birth control education is the end answer.
Anti-choice persons seem more interested in punishing the female, rather than actually attempting to reduce the numbers. In addition, were these people truly caring about children, they would support and participate in programs and policies that supported these children after they were (forcibly) born.
@Chuck Z I don’t care if I was the only person that opposes this evil practice of killing babies in the womb; however, you are mistaken in thinking that I am in the minority http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jan/19/abortion-poll-finds-81-americans-66-pro-choice-
@Craig Dehumanizing people is the way Leftist have been able to push their eugenics agenda so successfully the last 85 years. While the defeat of that evil cannot come soon enough, the good news is more and more people are seeing through the propaganda.
@Roger Cornelius Fortunately, I will have at least two more years of doing my best to oppose this evil.
Stace, what do you recommend that society do to a woman who is pregnant but wants to terminate the pregnancy? Should she be imprisoned and shackled during the pregnancy to prevent her from attempting to induce a miscarriage-abortion?
My question is serious as we know from history that if we outlaw medically assisted abortions women will turn to unsafe methods in an effort to end an unwanted pregnancy. Should these women be held captive as soon as we learn they are pregnant? Should the women who succeed in inducing a miscarriage be charged with 1st degree murder?
And as you know, SD law considers age of the victim to be an aggravating circumstance that justifies imposition of the death sentence. Would you advocate the death sentence for any woman who successfully terminates an unwanted pregnancy?
Stace,
I’m not talking about your two remaining years to oppose abortions, I’m talking about you personally not having to make a choice about needing or wanting to have an abortion.
I thought that was pretty clear.
Stace Nelson-there is always the off chance that Drumpf appoints you to his Scotus. You certainly are out on the far right fringe far enough for him.
@BCB there are currently Provisions in place across the nation to assist people who are intent on harming themselves provisions in place across the nation to assist people who are intent on harming themselves, regardless of their gender or circumstances. Taking this evil option off the table would obviously not herald in an onslaught of what you describe. The reality is birth control measures are numerous and affordable. It is an unnatural thing for a human being to wish to kill their progeny. Regardless of the last 50 years of propaganda. I have had the miserable duty to investigate the murder of several children by mothers suffering from postpartum depression. In one case the mother committed suicide in and the others the parents were prosecuted. Each one of them was a tragedy of epic proportions. As I have already pointed out, the desire to harm oneself or a person’s child, as a mental health issue therefore obviously not rise to the level of capital punishment.
@Roger happy to disappoint your nasty snide comment. I am the proud daddy of six wonderful children and so far, three beautiful grandsons. Additionally, my beautiful wife and I are looking at the possibility of having another child either naturally or through adoption. So, here’s mud in your eye and a huge wish that your vile nature ends with you.
@Mike IOWA Every view I have whether it be pro-life or supporting the Second Amendment is traditional American values. Your Leftist ideas are the radical fringe. Your confusion over Trump and conservatism show that you are not up to speed on the differences a political ideologies.
Stace, okay that makes sense – pregnant women who want to terminate the pregnancy are mentally ill. We know a mentally ill person who is suicidal or wishes to harm others can be locked up in a mental hospital, isolated from others and shackled with straight jacket to prevent them from harming themselves. Is it your position that society should do the same thing to any woman that thinks she wants to terminate her pregnancy?
Would that be your position for the women who killed their children after they are born? You said you worked on such cases. Did you advocate that these women must be mentally ill and hospitalized rather than prosecuted for homicide?
Stace – I tried your link, it doesn’t exist. Do you have anything more recent?
Stace do you have any ideas on what should happen to the father of an aborted child, does he not bare some responsibility for the pregnancy or do we just let them escape your kind of justice as we do now?
“Dehumanizing people is the way Leftist have been able to push their eugenics agenda so successfully the last 85 years.”
It isn’t a matter of dehumanizing anyone. It is simply using the correct terminology. A “baby” is a term used to describe an infant or neonate which is a post-birth stage. The scientific term used to describe the stage of human development within a womb after 10 weeks is a fetus – or in earlier cases it may be an embryo. You can try to appeal to emotion by purposefully replacing the actual terms with more cuddly terms like “baby” or “pre-born infant”, but that doesn’t detract from reality.
I really don’t have any issue with your stance on abortion – you are free to your opinion and I commend you for standing up for your beliefs. However I just want people to be honest about what we’re talking about. We aren’t talking about the killing of babies or the murder of infants. We are talking about the voluntary ended of an unwanted pregnancy which involves removal of an embryo or fetus. Some may still call it “killing” although the debate ranges on as to what constitutes a distinct life… but either way it most certainly isn’t a baby. I’ve yet to meet anyone who thinks killing babies should be ok.
I’m wondering how many babies and children Stace killed either intentionally or as collateral damage during his active service in Iraq and Afghanistan.
@BCB Your insincerity and design on playing political gotcha are as offensive as the process of abortion itself.
Your claims that persons expressing suicidal ideations are restrained and locked away are ignorant of reality, from my experience at investigating numerous suicides.
Postpartum and prepartum depression are real mental health issues that affect a huge percentage of women http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1967991.html and are known to contribute to suicide and infanticide.
Recognizing them destroys the Left’s propaganda on abortion however inconvenient that is to the asinine political agenda, it does not change the facts.
My position is real simple, I 100% oppose the evil practice of abortion and am 100% committed to protecting those innocents, as I am of anyone else.
Resuming the proper role in society of recognizing the worth of those innocent lives, and protecting them rights like anyone else, is the only position I have.
Chuck Z- this has the stats Nelson mentioned. Because it is a pro life site, I wonder about the accuracy.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/81-percent-of-americans-support-dramatically-stronger-pro-life-reforms-poll
Washington Times is owned by Rev Sun Myong Moon.
Is it possible for a person to oppose abortion and not be a misogynist, or am I per se a male supremacist and hater of women? Just trying to feel out the rhetoric, Cory.
“I’m wondering how many babies and children Stace killed either intentionally or as collateral damage during his active service in Iraq and Afghanistan.”
No love lost for Stace, but that’s a pretty grotesque thing to say to someone, Roger.
@Chuck Weird, I can access the article via a search, but if I click on it above it dead ends. Anyway, abortion has always been viewed as morally wrong by a majority of Americans http://www.gallup.com/poll/191834/americans-attitudes-toward-abortion-unchanged.aspx
@Craig The partners to the American Leftist eugenics movement, the Nazis, called people they disapproved of “animals.” Semantics to assuage guilty consciences is what the Left has to do to push the ignorant propaganda that it’s okay to murder a baby in the womb, “because it’s not really a human being.” It’s the same BS semantics that the Nazis used to perpetuate the murder of millions.
I have to agree with Dicta on that one… those types of statements do nothing for the level of discourse. You’re better than that Roger.
Wow Stace – invoking Godwin’s Law within 20 comments. That’s impressive.
In any case I’m not talking semantics. I’m talking scientific terminology. It is about intellectual honesty and nothing more.
Yeah, well, scientific terminology is LITERALLY Hitler, so, you know.
Stace, I apologize if you are offended by inquiries. I am sincere and not trying to play political gotcha. Instead, I aim to understand exactly what you, as a someone seeking public office, intend to do to the women in our state that decide they want to terminate a pregnancy. I am sorry that you feel these are unfair questions, but it seems important to know what you want South Dakota law to do to our wives, sisters, and daughters if they decide to terminate an unwanted pregnancy.
As best I can tell from your answer, you would like to use existing law to have them institutionalized as mentally ill so that any and all steps needed to force them to carry the pregnancy to term could be used on them by state officials. That objective seems an unfortunate goal for South Dakota public policy.
And I am not able to understand what you would have the law do to a woman who actually succeeds in terminating an unwanted pregnancy. I think it is a fair question to ask someone who seeks to be a SD lawmaker.
And I suspect that you are fully aware that your position disregards a woman’s fundamental Constitutional right of privacy that our SCOTUS has repeatedly reaffirmed in decision after decision after decision, which protects her right to end an unwanted pregnancy. If you are elected, you will take an oath to uphold the Constitution, yet you articulate a position directly contrary to that right of privacy.
Your declare that you want to protect “those innocents.” That seems commendable. But then to accomplish that goal you want to force a living human to submit her body to the needs of that innocent, which seems horrific with its absolute and complete disregard of the woman’s right to bodily integrity. If no one stands up for women, what group will next be subjected to involuntary use of their bodies to save other innocents, such as those in need of transplants to survive.
I will be gone for a few days, but will return to this discussion when I get back
My position is real simple, I 100% oppose the evil practice of abortion and am 100% committed to protecting those innocents, as I am of anyone else.
Would you be willing to kill to protect a fetus? How does that make you pro life? You are willing to kill to show that you believe killing is wrong.
Watch yer back, bcb. Don’t want to lose your candid insights.
The GOP anti-woman, anti-abortion trash legislation is all about rapist rights.
@BCB what possesses anyone who claims to be intelligent enough to rub two sticks together to presume to dictate, and put Jack, such intellectually dishonest statements about another individual? There is fundamentally something wrong with someone who attempts to characterize another person’s views on the subject matter it’s such a grotesque and inappropriate fashion. I categorically reject your assnine quantifications and hypothesis of where I stand on These issues and label your obscene statements properly as your own as they’re not my expressed opinions but yours. Who engages in such juvenile antics?
Sounds like some wingnut is playing the victim card-ala Caribou Barbie Palin.
One of the greatest failings of men is thinking they can make pregnancy decisions for women.
@Craig Merriam’s “Fetus: a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth” Since we are being intellectually honest, you are still killing a human being regardless of whethar you call it an infant, a baby, or a fetus.
Dicta, you are welcome to feel out the rhetoric.
You can oppose abortion without being a misogynist. If you are in a relationship with a woman and she says, “I’m pregnant, I don’t know if I can go through with this pregnancy, what should I do?” you can say to her, “I think you should keep the child, and here’s why,” and not be a woman-hater.
However, you cannot win an election, go to Pierre, and use the force of law to make that decision for every woman without overstepping your moral bounds as a man and as a legislator.
Whenever Cory publishes an article regarding abortion, I am alway amazed that the first people to comment are conservative men who seem to have no problem telling all women what they can and cannot do with their own body. As a SD woman, I am no longer in my child-bearing years. That said, I am sickened by the laws the GOP here (and in other red states) has forced through our legislatures to chip away at Roe v. Wade. How arrogant do you have to be to believe your opinion on abortion should dictate a complete stranger’s decision regarding a pregnancy? I have said for years the GOP has some perverse obsession with other people’s sex lives. I guess that’s why porn and anti-LGBT rhetoric are part of the 2016 GOP platform.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetus_(biology)
Look Stace-they show a right wing fetus in this liberal website.
“I guess that’s why porn and anti-LGBT rhetoric are part of the 2016 GOP platform.”
Hey now, as a conservative I can deal with accusations of misogyny calmly, BUT I WILL NOT BE CALLED ANTI-PORN WITHOUT AN ANGRY REBUTTAL.
Porn and Gays are the medical crises right wingers are concerned about. It should be patently obvious that gun violence is at or beyond crisis stage, but this is what you get from the party of big government-especially social issues.
OTOH-internet porn is watched more in red states than blue-so there is that.
@Stace – Since we are being intellectually honest, abortion isn’t killing a human being – it is ceasing to allow a human to develop. Some argue it is “killing”, but we are talking about potential here. Yes a 10 week old fetus has the potential of developing into a human, but so does a fertilized egg. Arguably even an unfertilized egg and a sperm has the potential to develop into a human under the right conditions. You Stace probably had potential to become a liberal, anti-gun, pro-choice Democrat too… but that isn’t what happened.
It isn’t my place to decide at what point a fetus becomes a distinct life. As much as I’d like to say I know for sure that would simply be untrue. Many claim to know one way or another and I don’t really believe any of them, because science doesn’t have a definitive way of knowing when “life” begins regardless of what Steve Hickey might like to say. Maybe it is conception, maybe it is implantation, maybe it is at the point a fetus could be viable outside the womb, or maybe it is when a fetus takes the first breath as some bible versus suggest. I can’t really say – so I learn towards a more moderate approach of saying I don’t condone late-term abortions where it is clear the fetus is viable. Then again I’m a hypocrite because if a fetus is six months old and has an abnormality such as not having a developed brain or some medical condition that indicates it won’t survive for more than a few minutes outside the womb I’m ok with abortion there too…. yet some would call that a life and would force the mother to carry the pregnancy to term.
I wish this was a black and white issue, but it never will be. I think the most honest position I can take is to admit I just might be wrong, but so could everyone else.
@Craig and SDBLUE Since we are being intellectually honest here, yes, abortion is the killing of a human being with separate DNA and in most cases, separate brain wave activity, a separate heart beat, and separate feelings. I 100% support and defend a woman’s right to determine what she wants to do with her own body and her sole determination of if and when she decides to engage in sexual relations; however, once a baby is conceived, that is a separate human being. Human beings are constantly in a stage of development from the second they are conceived till they die and even then there are laws on how a corpse is to be treated. Abortion is barbaric and evil. It is not a matter of opinion on whether a developing human being is a human being, THAT is fact. The real issue is if it is morally right to kill that innocent baby, and that answer is self evident “no.”
It’s a scary notion that Stace Nelson wants to be a position to legislate women’s healthcare.
He Must Be Stopped!
@Roger Cornelious We are being intellectually honest here today so need to counter your last comment with reality. I actually did not want to run again. The reality is that my district has indicated they want me to represent then again. Abortion is NOT healthcare, it is the opposite of healthcare. It is a dangerous and unnecessary medical procedure that causes the in humane and barbaric death of a human being and is known to cause adverse physical
And mental health problems for women who are often forced to undergo such barbarity by boyfriends, husbands, and relatives.
@CAH I respectfully disagree. Abortion is a huge issue and many voters hinge their representative preference decisions on this sole issue. As you know, this is not a political issue with me. It is something that I believe in passionately and am brutally honest where I stand on this and any other issue voters are concerned with. The majority of Society in general in the USA historically views abortion as immorale (wrong). I am 100% correct in going to Pierre and fighting against this barbaric and evil practice as that is what I told voters in my district I would do.
Stace, a zygote is not a baby. A zygote is not a human being. It is potentially a human being just like a sperm or egg is a potential human being. Stop making the ludicrous argument that a zygote is a human being.
Stace, you seek to put women back into subservience. If they do the crime in your mind, they should do the time, so to speak. Well, things are different now. Welcome to the 21st century where women are empowered and have reasonable control over their womb.
It is a dangerous and unnecessary medical procedure that causes the in humane and barbaric death of a human being and is known to cause adverse physical
And yet abortion is far safer than childbirth. Go figure. If you really cared about women you’d ban childbirth.
I would like to tell you a little story, Mr. Nelson. I have a three month old special needs grandson. My daughter-in-law had her first ultrasound at 20 weeks which is standard medical practice. At that time, my son and daughter-in-law were told the fetus had some abnormalities but was not a cause for concern. Each month following, she had a new ultrasound and was told the same thing. The fetus has some abnormalities, but he should be fine. On the day of his birth, he was not “fine”. He was immediately flown from their birthing center to the neonatal intensive care unit in the city closest to them where he remained for a month. He has a cleft palate, is being fed through a tube surgically implanted in his stomach and is on oxygen 24/7. He has a host of medical issues including underdeveloped lungs, poor muscle tone, he may only see shadows and a piece of his brain is actually missing. Luckily, the kids live in California where they expanded medicaid and embraced the ACA, so the majority of my grandson’s health care is covered. However, the financial burden on them is indescribable. My daughter-in-law cannot work because my grandson requires 24/7 care. It is difficult for my son to work because they also have a 2 year old. I don’t know if my son and daughter-in-law would have made a different decision had they known the extent of my grandson’s health issues. The point of this is further proof that politicians like you are not pro-life you are pro-fetus. If you really cared about life, you would care about the lives of those affected when a child is born with health issues that will have to be addressed for the rest of his life.
@Darin A zygote is a developing human being. Life begins at conception. Call a baby in the womb whatever name you so desire in an effort to dehumanize it and yet even within those definitions of the scientific terms you use to dehumanize them? The definition still reflects that it is a human being.
Defending the lives of innocent babies, roughly 50% of which are female, is the opposite of mysogeny. Additionally, Leftist zeal for supporting this barbaric and evil practice ignores the scores of women who are forced to get abortions by boyfriends, husbands, and family members. So the real mysogenists are those who victimize women and their babies for he sake of perpetuating this evil.
The far right wants the government out of peoples lives-except when it comes to a woman’s body. Then they want to control it. The far right wants less government until to people, who happen to be the same sex, then they want the government to ban same-sex marriage.
How course if sensible gun control is mentioned, which could save lives, then no, no, no government involvement. Are they sure they’re pro-life?
@SDBlue -I wish ntohing but the best for you and your family
Thanks Owen.
@SDBlue It seems the worst people who stereo type and are bigoted are those who claim to be the most tolerant. In addition to rais g 6 kids of my own, the first of which came when I was 17, I have supported a Catholic orphanage in Northern Vietnam for over 11 years.
Just as Our Founding Fathers were not responsible for takIng care of every person they freed when they built this nation, I am not responsible for those that I have helped protect the lives of. You have a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness… that means you have the freedom to succeed or fail in life on your own wherewithal.
The more Leftists involved the government in healthcare, the worse it has gotten. We are all victims of your ideological success.
SDBlue, your story dramatically demonstrates the absurdity of Stace and the GOP on the issue of caring for human beings. It is almost like they have it exactly backwards. They will do everything in their power to make a woman carry a zygote (non human being) to term, but once the baby (a human being) arrives their interest in the human condition wanes or disappears. They seek cuts to welfare, WIC, AFDC, student loans, Indian Health Services, to name a few examples, and oppose universal health care or even expanding medicaid. Why the extreme interest in a fertilized egg and the extreme indifference to an actual human being?
Saying a couple of human cells is a human being is like saying a wheel barrow full of concrete is a building or a rain drop is a lake, or a few words strung together is War and Peace.
California’s healthcare is what is saving my son’s family from ruin. Had my grandson been born in South Dakota, not only would my son and daughter-in-law be worrying about how to make ends meet each month, they would also be drowning in medical debt. That’s the difference between a red state and a blue state. I hate that my son and grandsons are half a country away from me, but I am thankful he fled South Dakota.
@Stace. So what you’re saying is to do everything possible to bring a fetus to term and then the hell with them? If you’re lucky great and if not-well tough luck? Jesus feel that way?
“The more Leftists involved the government in healthcare, the worse it has gotten.”
By the way Obamacare has saved many lives. Maybe even mine. So your above statement is wrong.
Stace says: “Just as Our Founding Fathers were not responsible for takIng care of every person they freed when they built this nation, I am not responsible for those that I have helped protect the lives of.”
Stace, you are trying to put the government directly in people’s lives in one instance and then take the government out of their lives in most every other instance. You are taking credit for being responsible for an unborn child, but then saying there is nothing you can do after the child is born. That is totally inconsistent.
@Darin You must have skipped biology in school. Even Merriam’s states that a zygote is a developing human being, the operative words being human being. Sorry to destroy the surprise for you, but a Golden Retriever won’t be delivered.
The absurdity of the must rip the baby apart crowd? There is a simple solution where no more innocent babies need be murdered in the womb or birth channel. If you can’t afford a baby or don’t want one? Don’t have sex! If you can’t control yourself? Then use birth control! Freedom doesn’t mean everyone else pays for your decisions. The last person that should pay for your decisions, is an innocent baby.
@Owen Its called personal responsibility. I support people’s right of self determination and of bearing the consequences of their decisions. The law says if you have a baby, you are responsible for taking cAre of it. If a person fails, society intervenes and takes the child away.
We have had this discussion about healthcare before. YOU chose not to pursue employment that provided healthcare and chose not to insure yourself. Obamacare is a disaster and it is only getting worse.
@ALCON Thanks for the motivation and information. Just like sparring in boxing, this helps prepare me to fight harder for the innocent unborn.
I have rightfully pointed out repeatedly that abortion is barbaric and evil. There was not one rebuttal to those statements. The excuses for perpetuating this evil become less and less with the public understanding that birth control comes in a myriad of affordable and reliable measures. I look forward to the day this evil is stopped permanently once and for all, Good Lord willing I will do everything possible to facilitate its demise.
As South Dakota turns into a retirement community, perhaps this will become a moot point for Stace and his ilk. Tough to push around little girls when they no longer live within your reach.
There you have it. The Neanderthals return or I mean the compassionate conservatives’ return.
Nelson, it says that you are a dead dude. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stace_Nelson
jerry, that is hilarious.
So good in fact that I can’t even provide a snide comment.
Sorry to destroy the surprise for you, but a Golden Retriever won’t be delivered.
But, what about that wingnut fetus I provided for you, Stace? If that fetus is a human, it is one ugly looking rethuglican fetus.
Stace: “If you can’t afford a baby or don’t want one? Don’t have sex!”
I’ll be sure to pass that advice along to the rape victims that end up pregnant through no fault of their own.
Don’t expect Stace to answer any questions regarding why a rape victim has to be revictimized by the state requiring her to carry a fetus to term or why incest is not an exceptional circumstance allowing abortion or why a mother’s life or health does not come before a fetus’s right to use her womb. Extremism in the defense of his oppressive beliefs is no vice to him. The Taliban could learn a thing or two from Stace.
Instead of trying to mandate that the government enforce Stace’s views, why not work to educate people and work on programs to prevent unwanted pregnancy? Why must the heavy hand of government be the answer?
@Darin and Craig In near two decades of working rape and incest cases, I never saw one pregnancy. Regardless of those crimes, the baby that you wish to barboursly rip limb from limb and murder, is innocent of those crimes. The absuridity of your position? Your political ideology doesnt advocate the death penalty for the perpetrator of those crimes, quite the opposite! however, you fiendishly cackle for the innocent baby to be ripped apart in an act of evil, you dont even make a feeble attempt to deny that abortion is in fact barbarous and EVIL!
Stace,
What should be the penalty for a man and woman that produced a fetus and choose to abort it?
Should abortions be a capital crime, 2nd degree murder, manslaughter?
And, were you in the legislature when all the rape tests were stacking and remain untested today?
Three questions that should have simple answers.
No pregnancies in 2 decades,huh? Must have all been legitimate rapes ala Todd Akin, right?
What is barbaric and evil is targeting women’s health centers, cutting off ALL care to women based upon the clinic’s decision to offer encompassing services. Often times when these centers get closed, it creates great hardship for women with needs other than abortion, but who cares about women’s health anyway, right?
Yep if Stace never saw it, it never happened and it never happens now.
Stace, I am actually in favor of the death penalty in theory but given the fact that it is not swift certain or a deterrent as the studies have shown, it seems pointless and expensive. I would not however advocate the death penalty for rape.
Now let’s hear how you would treat those who perform abortions, have abortions or attempt to have an abortion.
I suspect that one of the reasons that Stace hasn’t seen any pregnancies as a result of rape is because of the use of the morning-after pill. Of course Stace would ban the use of that pill as well.
And Stace I do deny that some abortions are barbarous and evil. Do you deny that making a woman carry a pregnancyto term, no matter the circumstances, is barbarous and evil?
Stace: ” In near two decades of working rape and incest cases, I never saw one pregnancy.”
Well if you never saw it I guess that means it never happens.
Just a reminder – In all of my decades on this planet, I’ve never seen a single dead penguin. Apparently they live forever!
Stace: “Your political ideology doesnt advocate the death penalty for the perpetrator of those crimes, quite the opposite!”
What is most interesting here is that you presume to know what I think about issues without ever consulting with me first. Contrary to your assumptions, I actually form my opinion on individual issues based upon my own research and experiences. I don’t consult a political party to determine what I should think.
You should try it sometime. It is quite liberating.
Stace: “you fiendishly cackle for the innocent baby to be ripped apart in an act of evil”
I’ve never cackled for an innocent baby to be harmed in any way Stace. Now you’re just being dishonest. The question we need to ask is whether Pierre has rubbed off on you or the other way around?
@Roger Cornelius You want a response from me? Apologize for your previous unacceptable conduct.
@Mike IOWA You reassert your ignorance every time you hit the “post” button. Any time you wish to
Compare rape convictions, and efforts to prevent rape and sexual assault, you just crawl out of the shadows and stand upright.
@Darin The death penalty is appropriate punishment and justice for the most heinous crimes. It has a proven 0% recidivism rate. You can’t find the G2 to understand the obvious common sense basics of that, but you sit here cackling away supporting the death penalty, without due process, for an innocent baby in the womb.
A 1992 study estimated that 5% of all reported rapes may result in pregnancy. No follow up study was done to determine how many of those victimized women, who became pregnant, were inclined to have an abortion. http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2013/aug/15/wendy-Davis/surveys-show-wide-disagreement-number-rape-related/
No, I not believe a woman carrying a baby to term is evil or barbarous; however, the summary brutal execution of an innocent baby, that has committed no wrong, that is chopped up while it is conscious just to allieviate an inconceivance and perpetuate the Left’s ignorant politics? That is evil.
@Craig Even a 4 year old child understands the bump on their mommies belly is a baby. Every time you advocate for abortion, you advocate for the brutal murder of an innocent baby.
The must keep abortion legal for rape victims is a red herring and the weakest of excuses for the brutal, barbarous, evil killing of the 99.9% of the babies killed in abortions every year.
Black lives matter? Except when you are butchering their babies at a rate FOUR TIMES as much as non-minorities! I guess that’s you folks enjoying your “while privilege?”
Stace,
I make no apologies for anything I said to you, how about an apology to the commenters here for your verbal attacks..
Your refusal to answer is proof that you are unwilling or incapable of answering three simple questions.
Has anyone posting here ever heard what anti-abortion advocates suggest the penalty be for a woman that had an abortion and the man that fathered the fetus?
The bright side, Stace, is there will be less BLM for whitey wingnuts to face in whitey wingnuts race war against BLM.
You piss and moan when poor blacks have more out of wedlock children. You pretend to piss and moan when they have abortions. Being a self righteous wingnut must be rilly hard.
BTW Nelson, where are you getting your stats? Lifenews is promoting the same stats plus they are promoting the disproven videos claiming PP is selling baby parts.
PS no one is forcing black women to have abortions. No one is paying them to have abortions. These women can and do make up their own minds-something your side seems incapable of doing without marching orders/talking points.
@Mike IOWA You reassert your ignorance every time you hit the “post” button. Any time you wish to
Compare rape convictions, and efforts to prevent rape and sexual assault, you just crawl out of the shadows and stand upright.
Prove it! Put your statistics where your big mouth is, Nelson.
Mike from Iowa, you referring to Whitey Wingnuts is as racist as using the N word for African Americans. Keep spewing and showing your stupidity. You are a pro at it.
Greg-another junkie, huh?
Setting aside Stace’s fringe websites, the majority of Americans (including South Dakotans) support a woman’s right to chose. How do I know this? WE voted on it. Remember – 2006 Referendum 6 – 55% to 45%. More proof our legislators are disconnected.
I do give Stace credit though, at least he communicates, and you do know exactly where he stands, even if you disagree. Thanks for talking to us Stace!
Black lives matter? Except when you are butchering their babies at a rate FOUR TIMES as much as non-minorities! I guess that’s you folks enjoying your “while privilege?”
Crazy Nelson- name one single white person on this site that has ever butchered a black baby. Better yet, name one person on here who is in favor of abortion. Spit it out since you know so damn much.
Stace: “Even a 4 year old child understands the bump on their mommies belly is a baby. Every time you advocate for abortion, you advocate for the brutal murder of an innocent baby.”
I’d like to think most abortions will occur long before there is a bump Stace. I don’t think anyone I’ve ever met condones late term abortions and I’m even open to an honest discussion about what that cutoff should be. However I’m not about to consider a mass of cells in a woman to be a human being. That is where we differ – and as such I don’t buy into the “murder” rhetoric. If you really believed it was murder, then you should be the prime sponsor on legislation that would charge anyone involved in an abortion with murder, otherwise your convictions aren’t nearly as strong as you may suggest.
Stace: “The must keep abortion legal for rape victims is a red herring and the weakest of excuses for the brutal, barbarous, evil killing of the 99.9% of the babies killed in abortions every year.”
Even if you would want to ban most abortions, I find the refusal to allow for exceptions in the case of a rape is frightening. This is the exact logic which led to the South Dakota voters telling the legislature that they were fine with the status quo… because the legislature continues to ignore the will of the people. Had they attempted to place restrictions on abortion that included exceptions for things such as rape, incest, health of the mother, or health of the other fetuses (in case of multiple births) the proposal may have passed a public vote. Whether it would have passed a SCOTUS challenge is another issue.
As far as your BLM comments I’m not even going there. I don’t look at this issue and see a race angle. However if you are so concerned about the rate of abortions being higher for people of color, perhaps your first order of business should be a bill which would provide birth control remedies to those demographics at no charge. It won’t prevent all abortions – but it is most certainly going to prevent some.
“legislature continues to ignore the will of the people”
The SCOTUS also does that.
“I don’t buy into the “murder” rhetoric.”
SCOTUS legalized murder.
“Even if you would want to ban most abortions, I find the refusal to allow for exceptions in the case of a rape is frightening.”
I am not for banning abortion. If a court determines that the child of the rapist deserves the death penalty, then let the state execute the child.
One more time Stace, if abortion is murder why aren’t there any sentencing guidelines?
Why are you so afraid to answer that question?
Some tell me they think abortion is bad but should be legal so the woman can choose. They also say they want abortions to be reduced by reducing the cause of abortion. Well since abortion got legal the average age of marriage went from 19 to 26 years old. This only gives one seven more years to get pregnant outside of marriage which is the highest probability of wanting to get an abortion. So making abortion legal has made much more chance of getting an abortion rather than trying to reduce the amount of abortion. So it is not possible to have abortion legal and reduce it at the same time, that is an oxymoron.
“if abortion is murder why aren’t there any sentencing guidelines?
Why are you so afraid to answer that question?”
Abortion is legalized murder, so there is no sentencing. Your question is not relevant.
Roger E.
There are married couples that agree to have an abortion.
There are married women that have abortions behind their husbands back.
Women want the choice of abortion or not. They do not want the Dad or the baby to have a choice. They also want all the kids in divorce. Then they call that equal rights when they have all the rights and no one else has any rights. When I wanted to have full custody of my kids when I got divorced since I was by far the best person and the best parent, then women called me selfish. Do they really think family is only for women? That is what is selfish.
Steve,
Thanks for the clarification.
I should have made it clearer and in reference to Stace’s stance that abortion is murder.
How many women out there have abortions because the father of the fetus will not provide basic financial support?
I am not for banning abortion. If a court determines that the child of the rapist deserves the death penalty, then let the state execute the child.
Spoken like a true small government wingnut.
@Mike IOWA Like I said, you prove it every time you hit post. My FB page has a handfuls of the commendations I received for numerous cases, to include some of the many rape cases I worked. I provided subject matter expert consulting on the Oscar nominated documentary “The Invisible War” that has been seen by millions and is used by the US military as a training film.
@Roger Cornelius You remain as racist and bigoted as you want to, and I’ll continue to tell you to pound sand until you act civilly.
@Chuck Z The people elected to spare Barabbas’ life and crucify Christ, AND they overwhelmIngly elected Hitler. Does not make them right. Additionally, Democrats were able to have SCOTUS repeatedly uphold Slavery and convince territories back in the day to be proslavery. If a candidate is unwilling or incapable of discussing or defending their views? They are unfit to Serve. You folks have a right to know where I stand on the issues whether you agree or not. I need to work out on my patience with the anonymous nasty trolls though. Hard to see any worth to some of the juvenile vile antics employed to squelch legitimate debate and discussion on the issues.
@Craig and Mike IOWA You may want to read up on The candidates and party you so rabidly support. Plenty of them have expressed support for late term and partial birth abortion. You support a procedure where they brutally kill an innocent baby, simply because someone doesn’t want to be inconceivanced. At the same time, you support a party and politicians who oppose justice for the most heinous murderers and terrorists. I suppose if I was so thick as to support such evil? I’d whine, squirm, and play semantics to get the evil brutal images off my conscience too.
You two keep pushing your white privilege on the minority communities though and claim you’re doing them a favor killing them. Right out of a page of the DNC play book from the slavety era. http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/21/j-kenneth-blackwell-black-abortions-a-crisis-in-am/
Nelson-you’re an idiot!! Where did I say you have not gotten commendations for whatever the hell it is you used to do? Fact is you pulled that out of your ass because you can’t refute what I have said.
Lifestats claims that 79% of PP abortion clinics are in black areas. Politifact says- And today, only 9 percent of U.S. abortion clinics are in neighborhoods where half or more of residents are black, according to the most recent statistics.
Who is forcing black women to get abortions,Nelson? What business is it of yours who gets an abortion? Who on this site is pro abortion? How about answering some questions and quit deflecting?
Again Stace, you presume to know what candidates and even what party I support. I may agree with some liberal positions, but that doesn’t mean I support all liberals. Many of the regular posters here could probably cite many occasions where I supported a more conservative position on an issue as well, but often times I find myself somewhere between the two extremes.
I also never vote party line – I vote for the candidate who I feel is in the best position to represent the interests I support. I may not agree with you on every issue, but I’m sure I do agree with you on some. You shouldn’t be so quick to assume someone who doesn’t have the same stance as you on one issue should be considered in the other camp 100% of the time.
Let’s have a round of applause for Stace Nelson for bigotry and racism and providing us more of his creds.
You are my hero Stace!
Blackwell? What a crock.
http://www.politifact.com/new-hampshire/statements/2015/oct/05/ben-carson/did-margaret-sanger-believe-african-americans-shou/
@Mike IOWA You made a comment telling me to prove my bonafides, I did. You do this blog and the people on here a disservice with your trolling and juvenile tirades. Not wasting anymore time responding to a cowardly troll.
@Roger Cornelious very capable of answering any question posed. I am chosing not to answer you because of
Your bigotry and hateful racism and to tell you to pound sand. I reject your asinine projections of your beliefs about my views. You in no way speak for me or my views.
@Stace-This study says that there are 32,101 women or 5% who become pregnant from woman who are raped. That seems like a lot to me. You said in your time investigating rapes you never saw one become pregnant. Looks like you were lucky.
The conclusion of this study calls this number significant.
Look, I’m not saying that all 32,101 have to have an abortion. If they want to carry the baby to term and raise it or give it up for adoption-fine. However they should be able to choose and not be forced to carry the baby. You have absolutely no right morally to tell them what to do.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8765248
” YOU chose not to pursue employment that provided healthcare and chose not to insure yourself.”
No I DID NOT CHOOSE not to find a job with insurance. It was TAKEN away from me and SENT to India by a greedy employer. I CHOSE to go back to school with the help of a government program that retrained me and let me be on COBRA at a reduced cost. Of course congress, in their infinite wisdom, cut the insurance part of the program and the only fall back I had was Obamacare. So to say the ACA is a disaster is garbage. The problem is your hatred of the President outweighs anything else.
How could I possibly speak for you Stace, I don’t know how to speak dumb stuff.
Where is this racism and bigotry crap coming from? Or do you just throw that in there when you are to cowardly to answer a legitimate question
That is a pattern with republicans, they want to ban, limit, or make abortions illegal, but they don’t want to talk about punishment for a woman that has one.
Keep up the deflections Stace, that says a lot about you.
So all who are against abortion, what happens when your son knocks up his girlfriend? How about you daughter becoming pregnant? What happens if both find that they carry a Zika like baby with no brain? I know, that would be another conservative, correct? What would you do Nelson, what advise would you give your son or daughter? As a conservative, if you know that child is brainless, why would you bring the child into the world? Why would you make the state care for it at taxpayer expense? Come on “true conservative” lets see your chops.
Nelson and his name calling is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Liar, too. I never once told you to prove your bonafides, liar. I asked for stats to back up your claims of black abortions. Of course you chose to deflect,again. Whose the cowardly troll, troll?
Stace, you don’t seem to understand the difference between a potential human being and a human being. I’ll attempt to explain in terms you should understand. You were a potential senator when you ran for the Republican nomination for US senate. When you lost the primary, you were not a senator. Nor were you a US senator when you ran for the nomination. Some would say you had potential, but you were never a senator.
Now you give us the inflamed rhetoric of tearing limb from limb when I was talking about a zygote or a mass of cells that has no limbs. You make no distinction between early term abortion and late term abortion. That is where you and I differ.
A single human cell or even a mass of human cells is not a human being. The law does not treat them as such and you don’t truly believe that they are the same as we can plainly see by your refusal to classify the destruction of these human cells as murder with the same penalties attaching. I haven’t heard you say anything about the frozen embryos in fertility clinics. What about the rights of these embryos? How can human beings as you refer to them be frozen and constrained against their will? Are these murders when they discard the embryos? If the embryos are human beings, it would have to be considered murder.
But this is just a political issue for you, otherwise you wouldn’t be trying to maintain the absurd position that an embryo is a human being.
The other absurdity of your position is that an embryo or mass of human cells has equal or more rights than a fully formed human female.
” You make no distinction between early term abortion and late term abortion. That is where you and I differ.”
Darin, from a scientific standpoint, there is no distinction. IF either side is trying to use science to promote their argument….then…. Pro-choice people are hypocrites if they don’t support late term abortions. Viability has nothing to with the definition of life as far as science goes. Pro-life people are hypocrites if they believe human life begins at conception without acknowledging life began prior to that diploid forming. Those haploids are alive by scientific definition which means they would have to condemn masturbation. Pro-life people would also have to condemn miscarriages because that is a reaction based on your bodies defensive mechanisms and is a natural reaction, which in no way is any different than a neural or mental impulse causing you to seek an abortion. The entire basis of pretty much everyone on both sides of the argument requires some sort of scientific gymnastics to support their moral boundaries. Scientifically, life began at a cellular level in the sperm and egg. The combination of genetic material for diversity purposes is merely a continuum of life. Arbitrarily defining when that living organism is “alive” is done more out of convenience.
It’s almost as if science and morality are at odds some times.
“Scientifically, life began at a cellular level in the sperm and egg.”
Not for the individual destroyed by the abortion. At conception there is a different DNA. There can be no life if only the sperm exists. There can be no life if only the egg exists. The only exception was the creation of Adam and Eve, which was when the human race began.
Taking a lesson from Sibson on phenotype-genotype distinction to characterize what is and what isn’t life should scare us all.
Daniel, I don’t rest my position on abortion on the question of when life begins. That is an abstract notion. My position on abortion is based upon a balancing of the rights of a potential human being (fetus) against the rights of the woman. The tipping point for me and SCOTUS is viability. I also would obviously take into account other factors such as the life and health needs of the mother or other fetuses in the same womb, and rape and incest situations.
Any test that does not make a distinction between an embryo or a mass of human cells and a fetus that is full term or viable outside the womb is untenable to me.
“The only exception was the creation of Adam and Eve, which was when the human race began.”
…please tell me you’re a young earther
“The tipping point for me and SCOTUS is viability.”
So if you are in a car crash and in need of medical attention or you will die, then you are no longer viable and the state has no obligation to be burdened with the cost if you can’t pay the costs your self. Right?
No, so viability is not a position the state should take.
Well leaving the blog for a couple days yields interesting results. Instead of candidate Stace answering the questions about what punishment he would advocate as an elected official that our SD laws should impose if one of our wives, daughters or sisters obtained an abortion, he decided to pay me some unusual and vitriol compliments for asking him questions.
I have to admit, however, I am one who condones late term abortions. I condone them because the circumstances faced by these families don’t fit in a one size fits all category. Indeed, for many people who are trying to have a healthy baby, nature has intervened to create a real crisis.
A woman who wanted a baby describes what happened in her pregnancy when she first learned would have had conjoined twins:
“At best only one child would survive the surgery to separate them and the survivor would more than likely live a brief and painful life filled with surgery and organ transplants. We were advised that our options were to deliver into the world a child who’s life would be filled with horrible pain and suffering or fly out to Wichita Kansas and to terminate the pregnancy under the direction of Dr. George Tiller.”
In other cases, a “woman discovered that one of her twins had died and that delivering the other would likely have killed her; another twice opted for a “partial birth” abortions after learning the babies had “no faces, with no way to eat or breathe,” and would die almost immediately after birth.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-waldman/the-inconvenient-truths-f_b_210821.html
Come on Stace, tell the voters how you would like SD law to puinish these women for deciding to terminate a late term pregnancy. From your last intellectually honest response to my questions it is not clear whether you would have our law declare such women as insane or whether you have another better idea to punish them. At least we know that you would oppose any public policy to help them with their problem babies after they are forcibly born.
Sibby’s car crash analysis is right on the money – if you are in a car crash and not viable without medical intervention and perhaps a transplant or two, the law should force SD women to give up whatever body parts you need to survive. We need a stable of people who we can forcibly use to protect the right of innocents to survive. But what if you were at fault in the car crash – should you then be able to use SD law to take body parts from women to survive? Maybe due process can identify those not at fault who should have the privilege of using other women’s body parts against their will.
BCB, thanks for the link. Those are some awful circumstances for anyone to confront and the state making it even worse is terrible. As you say, one size fits all does not come close to taking into account these circumstances.
Welcome back,bcb. Your gentle voice of reason was sorely missed.
bear,
Stace’s refusal to answer your legitimate questions, as well as mine, put him on the same level as the cowards Noem and Thune that refuse to debate Paula and Jay.
Messrs. Nelson and H on a stage side by side would be entertaining. Verbal poking and jousting, Mr. H would begin to edge Mr. Nelson off to the side. Then, when the tough question was asked, Mr. Nelson would run to the restroom.