Watertown is finally joining the 21st century and eliminating the racially insensitive aspects of its “Ki-Yi Days” homecoming celebration. Under the guidance of superintendent Dr. Lesli Jutting, students and Watertowners have rewritten their local homecoming fable to remove all references to Native Americans. They are changing the name from the “Ki-Yi Legend” to the “Legend of the Arrows.” Students will replace the mock Indian garb of their homecoming ceremony with medieval costumes.
To justify this change, Dr. Jutting cites research on the harmful effects of Native American mascots and other cultural misappropriation on Native students. That research apparently hasn’t traveled an hour up the road to Sisseton, where the school board voted May 25 to keep the “Redmen” logo, medicine man, and other pilferings of tribal culture in its homecoming activities. The board has resisted suggestions from its large Native American population to make changes. At its June 13 meeting, the Sisseton board heard a letter from Sisseton Wahpeton Oyate chairman David Flute urging them to “Please add discussion and a motion to the agenda, and change your votes so that we may move on from this issue and continue to build and strengthen a relationship for the betterment of the children of this community.” The board acknowledged the letter and moved on to other business.
The May 25 vote to keep homecoming Red was 4–3, with one member abstaining and another absent. Tomorrow folks in Sisseton get a chance to vote to make the school board more Red:
This Tuesday June 21 there is a School Board elections in Sisseton-Three seats are up for election. There are six candidates running, three of those running are Sisseton-Wahpeton Oyate Tribal members Debra Flute, Dr. Sherry Johnson, and Tom Wilson. The hope is to fill all three open seats with Tribal members. With Tribal members on the school board the school board will more accurately depict the diversity of our community. Sisseton, South Dakota is a small town with many wonderful attributes: a thriving arts community, many progressive residents, and an overall sense of comradery, [sic] hopefully soon our small town will follow the lead of communities all across the nation in changing outdated and detrimental mascots and homecoming coronations [Sierra Wolcott, “Same Ol’ Same Ol’,” Sota Iya Ye Yapi Online, downloaded 2016.06.20].
Wolcott writes that Native Americans make up about 60% of the student body at Sisseton, compared to less than 10% at Watertown. If Watertown can recognize the need for changing its racist homecoming practices, so can Sisseton. We’ll see if tomorrow’s election results move Sisseton in that direction.
Update 10:10 CDT: The Sisseton school district appears to post no information about tomorrow’s election online, but I learn from Wolcott that the three candidates joining the three SWO candidates on Tuesday’s school board ballot for the three available seats are incumbents Jenny Evenson and David Nelson and challenger Jeannie Hubert. Evenson voted for the May 25 resolution to leave the homecoming coronation unchanged; David Nelson voted against that resolution.
An example of how social justice bullying works. Also another example of those who want to be separate and special, but then expect equality.
The only way to start your Monday is with a Sibson Non-Sequitur®
Way to go Watertown!! Social conscience works! Denny, still comfortable censoring Indian’s social cause to rename Harney Peak?
Two more things relevant this morning. GOP supporting Trump’ s wet dream of a wallwhile 2800 miles south Venezuela’s failed oil economy has produced Food Riots. GOP ignorance of public medical care can have the same results.
Secondly, Trump was mentored by disbarred lawyer who was Joe MaCarthey’s right hand. Vote For Democrats. Fund public health, infrastructure, education, safe food&water. Fully. Quit voting for fear monger GUN And WAR ECONOMIES of the GOP. Dump Trump. Dump Thune. Dump Noem.
Pretty simple really. Follow Watertown’s social example to the entire state. Upset SD’s Mississippian Dead End GOP non-values.
What does Venezuela’s failed economy have to do with the GOP? Chavez nationalized the oil industry, which republicans would say is precisely the problem. Your argument is that republicans wanting to privatize healthcare again can lead to the same situation as the nationalization of oil and natural gas in Venezuela?
….k?
Dicta, I’ll leave Venezuela for others. Watertown made the right call. It’s not “bullying,” as Steve tries to twist it, when people speak up in defense of the victims of racism against the oppressor class. White people like Steve don’t give up their privilege easily.
Oh yes, the social justice bully propaganda “white privilege” rises. And may I respond with how the crony capitalist economic elites use the resulting “entitlement thinking” to get the so-called oppressed to use the working class tax dollars to buy their corporate products and services…as the wealth gap widens. Sad that the cultural Neo-Marxists uses racism and hatred to fuel the capitalists’ administered markets. Worse yet, they get these people to commit the sin of coveting without them even knowing about it.
I apologize if it seemed like I was addressing the Venezuela comment to you, Cory. I meant that for Leslie’s…. argument? As to Steve: I swear half of the stuff you post is written by a meme generator, because none of what you’ve written so far is responsive in the least to what happened in Watertown. MARXISM. CLASS WARFARE!!!!!!!!!! DOWN WITH THE PROLETARIAT!!!!!!!!!!
“what happened in Watertown”
Indians were granted special rights as the “white privileged” had their free speech rights eliminated. I call that social justice bullying.
LOL. You hear that? A government entity (public school) has First Amendment rights! Brave new constitution!
Good call Dicta. If there are dead enders in Watertown who feel their free speech rights have been violated they are free to establish a separate, private homecoming celebration where they can partake in whatever racist activities they desire. Just don’t expect state (school district) sanctioning.
“had their free speech rights eliminated”
“A government entity (public school) has First Amendment rights!”
First off, there is no more First Amendment as originally established. And “free speech” is not the same thing. Indians are special and have “free speech” rights, the “white privileged” are not to have free speech. The social justice bullies are the real racists, because they grant free speech “privileges” based on race. This is an example of engineering of consent propaganda by the bullies. Those of us who dare cross their line in the sand, are publicly demonized.
“Students will replace the mock Indian garb of their homecoming ceremony with medieval costumes.”
I’m always confused at which cultures should be appropriated vs. which should not. I suspect it all boils down to the threshold at which a group deems themselves offended. There aren’t probably too many people in Watertown that would register a complaint about the misappropriation of medieval culture… but you just never know.
Steve – free speech wasn’t impacted here. Nobody is saying any individual cannot voice his or her views. However there are always two sides – so who are you to determine which side is having their views oppressed? If they would have left the ceremony as it was, would you complain that those opposed were having their free speech rights attacked… or do you only feel the need to voice your concerns when the result goes against your personal viewpoint?
Aside from the fact we are talking about a public school rather than individuals, I really don’t see a free speech violation here. On what grounds are an individual rights being infringed upon? That logic simply doesn’t work.
So, is this Sibson’s debate strategy? When caught in factual or procedural inaccuracy, parrot something about the downfall of America and strut away like Foghorn Leghorn?
“free speech wasn’t impacted here”
Yes it was.
“Under the guidance of superintendent Dr. Lesli Jutting, students and Watertowners have rewritten their local homecoming fable”
The superintendent is a public school official. The “students and Watertowners” are not governmental. Their speech has been “rewritten”.
“Students will replace the mock Indian garb of their homecoming ceremony with medieval costumes.”
So could those costumes include the Crusaders…pagan freemasons confused with representing Christianity?
http://www.masonicsourcebook.com/knights_templar_freemasons_masons.htm
Sh#t! I thought free masons was the brick layer’s union.
Medieval wasn’t a culture as much as a period of time. Of course non of them pesky persons of color ever jousted or wore armor. White privilege doncha know.
Congratulations to Dr. Jetting and the students of Watertown, they recognized and changed a long standing racist pageantry. It gives me faith that even when small steps are taken to erase racism and injustice, those steps matter and we grow better as a state.
Now on to Sisseton, with a good voter turnout, maybe they can spread Watertown’s good sense to their school as well.
As to Sibson, his last blog post on sibbyonline was April 29, 2016, with a whopping two comments made. Among other things it shows that even people that think like him, don’t follow him.
With Sibson’s anger at not getting any attention on his own blog he finds it necessary to troll and covet (a sin according to Sibson) Dakota Free Press.
He spreads his white privilege and Donald Trump fascism like the broken sewer it is.
Roger, did you know the truth is not popular?
http://sibbyonline.blogs.com/sibbyonline/2015/03/the-hypocrisy-of-roger-cornelius-and-is-it-racism.html
What’s wrong Roger, you don’t want your fellow Madville social justice bullies see me call you out for your lies and racism?
Sad that you now want to take your racist agenda to Sisseton.
“The superintendent is a public school official. The “students and Watertowners” are not governmental. Their speech has been “rewritten”.”
They were the ones doing the rewriting Steve. Besides – even if you stretch and try to paint this as a free speech issue (which it so clearly is not) nothing about the freedom of speech dictates that the speech has to be followed. I can stand up on the steps of the Lincoln Monument and declare that peanut butter should be outlawed and they can’t prevent me from saying it… but it doesn’t mean that supermarkets across the nation need to eradicate Jif from their shelves.
You mistakenly assume that if there are two voices being heard, that one must be having their rights violated. It simply doesn’t work like that. They can exercise their right to free speech all they wish, but that is where the right ends. In your fantasy world, the free speech rights of Native Americans must have been violated for the decades their requests were ignored… yet I didn’t see you complaining. Apparently only those who share your views are at risk of having their rights violated. Go figure.
Well, someone is transparently attempting to drive views to their shoddily written blog.
Dicta gets it. Roger, I’d love to see the voters of Sisseton get it and elect good Indian representation to their board. Of course, one of the incumbents on the ballot voted the right way on the homecoming resolution, so the choices tomorrow may be a little complicated.
Craig, I am curious what happens to theater and movies as it becomes unacceptable to dress up as people from other cultures. Does that prohibition extend across time to cultures who aren’t here to speak for themselves?
I have difficulty imagining anyone lodging a serious complaint about medieval garb, especially given all the Renaissance Fairs with jousting and such.
But I wonder (and I hope I’m not committing my own distraction from the topic): is there any implication here for Civil War re-enactors, or the black-powder folks who dress up like trappers for rendezvous?
Nick hits the key point about the First Amendment: we’re talking about school-sanctioned messages, not individual free speech. Schools have obligations not to engage in harmful, discriminatory behavior that go beyond limitations we may place on individuals. If you want to stand on your front porch dressed in Indian clothes and doing war whoops, you’ll catch from some neighbors (and I want Tweet pix!), but nobody can stop you. A school committed to free and fair education for all students, however, cannot engage in practices that have been shown to degrade the quality of education for significant number of its students… not to mention reinforcing culturally insensitive behavior among its majority white students.
Roger – as I’ve mentioned previously when this subject has been discussed, Sisseton has consulted with the local tribal leadership who previously indicated they had no concerns with the homecoming ceremony. I believe they also have sought the opinions of the student body who again have supported it, and Native Americans make up the majority of the student body. That said, I’ve cautioned anyone from drawing conclusions based upon opinions of the students alone as there could be bias in how their opinions are captured including fear of retribution etc.
The criticism of the mascot didn’t come from within the local tribe or the community, but rather from outside via former students who are now part of a rival school. (There has been some bad blood between the schools for many years which could play a part in the protest)
I’m not saying their mascot nor traditions are “right”. I am merely saying that a different school board may not result in any changes, because if they truly are listening to their constituents they may decide in favor of keeping their traditions. Does that make it any less insensitive? Perhaps not. However this is a complex issue that is easy for those on the outside to form opinions on, but much more difficult for those who live in the community.
If this was a school with a student body and community comprised of 70% white students who refused to acknowledge the opinions of the minority it would be quite different, but when you have one group of Native Americans and/or tribal members who wish to keep the tradition, should their voices be ignored merely because someone else is offended?
I’m always curious what the threshold should be for these types of issues. If one person is offended, is that sufficient for change? Should we wait for a simple majority? Somewhere in between? I’ve heard the arguments that such cultural appropriation should never be ok under any circumstances, but I don’t feel such black and white logic (no pun intended) solves the issue because almost everything is someone’s culture unless we mandate all sports teams and mascots are named after mammals etc.
Sadly we have bullies that want to make this discussion about me because I dare cross the line that says only whites are racists. Roger Cornelius and others have made racist remarks on this web site. How dare I call an Indian racist. Why are Indians so special that they can hate whites and be immune from being called racist?
There was nothing racist about this:
“In 1926, a Ki-Yi Day float was sponsored about an Indian legend which supposedly occurred at Lake Kampeska. The legend was written by Watertownian Gen. M.W Sheafe about a romance between a Sioux chief’s daughter and a young Pawnee brave during a period of Sioux-Pawnee hostilities. The events are supposed to have taken place on the shores of Lake Kampeska prior to the area’s settlement.
The float won the best float award and helped to inspire the team name. According to the Public Opinion on Nov. 11,1926, the Watertown High School student body officially “christened” the football team the “Arrows” at a convention the preceding day. Donna Burt, a student, read the legend (the predecessor of today’s Ki-Yi legend) during the christening ceremony. The name stuck and quickly spread to the other athletic teams at the high school.”
http://members.nvc.net/kdborn/125history.html
That was 90 years ago. What is wrong with the idea that love can conquer the hostilities between two groups of people? That is what the so-called pride events are supposed to be about, but the exact opposite is the result.
Very sad when the Indians hatred for the white man has now reached the level where they won’t allow us to treat them with respect. And those pushing them along with this crusade should be ashamed, instead of celebrating the ability to bully people around.
Everyone is capable of being a racist regardless of skin color you straw-manning ninny, that is completely besides the point of this discussion. Good lord, you’re dense.
Sibby, repeat after me-I,Steve Sibson, am not the victim here. I,Steve Sibson, am not the victim here. I,Steve Sibson, am not the victim here.-I,Steve Sibson, am not the victim here. I,Steve Sibson, am not the victim here. I,Steve Sibson, am not the victim here.-I,Steve Sibson, am not the victim here. I,Steve Sibson, am not the victim here. I,Steve Sibson, am not the victim here.
Cory: “Craig, I am curious what happens to theater and movies as it becomes unacceptable to dress up as people from other cultures. Does that prohibition extend across time to cultures who aren’t here to speak for themselves?”
Some would argue it should, and we have already seen protests and some level of ‘outrage’ directed towards various films whether it be Mel Gibson’s Braveheart film, or his Apocolypto take on the Mayans. We even saw some backlash against the Duke Boys for sporting the Confederate flag on the roof of their car, although that issue really wasn’t dealing with misappropriation of culture and more about the insensitivity of the symbol. Either way – there is almost always someone who is offended.
Cory: “I have difficulty imagining anyone lodging a serious complaint about medieval garb, especially given all the Renaissance Fairs with jousting and such.”
I’d agree – but what we find difficult today may not be so in decades to come. There was a time when everyone treated Columbus Day as just another excuse to have a parade, yet these days there are a growing number of people who are offended by any celebration directed towards a man who history has shown most likely isn’t worthy of the admiration.
I’ve also seen complaints about celebrations such as Germanfest or holidays like St. Patrick’s Day for promoting stereotypes. Rest assured if it exists – someone is offended by it.
Cory: “But I wonder (and I hope I’m not committing my own distraction from the topic): is there any implication here for Civil War re-enactors, or the black-powder folks who dress up like trappers for rendezvous?”
It seems silly to even suggest it – but surely there are descendants of Civil War soldiers who find such mock battles tasteless. Yet people participate in these events for entertainment… it seems rather odd when you think about it. I’m assuming today any attempt to recreate the Boston Tea Party would be considered extremely offensive to many – but if there is one thing American history has managed to capture it is a tendency to be offensive.
I may not agree with Steve often, but boy do I respect how he totally avoids the responses which obliterate his logic as he quickly shifts to a totally different argument. Such dancing has to be admired on some small level.
Still not going to visit his blog though.
You are right Mike, I am not the victim. The victims are those Indians that been worked into a high state of hatred toward whites by an agenda that uses propaganda and bully tactics in order to achieve some kind of political gain for themselves.
Craig, I’m wondering what happens if a Yankee dresses up in a Gray uniform.
You are right about how what we find inconceivable now can become the norm in a generation or two. I watched The Dukes of Hazaard every Friday night and don’t recall any fuss over the Stars and Bars on the top of the General Lee. But then I also didn’t have the Internet to keep me informed. ;-)
Sibson, if Indians hate you it is only because you have earned it.
You don’t see me having these same type of discussions with Cory, mike from iowa, et al.
I plan to write a one man plan with me in the staring role playing Steve Sibson, I’ll sit on a stool on the stage and repeat Sibson’s long lists of idiocy and victimhood. Hopefully Sibson won’t be offended by an Indian playing him.
I am not the victim. The victims are those Indians that been worked into a high state of hatred toward whites by an agenda that uses propaganda and bully tactics in order to achieve some kind of political gain for themselves.
Being slaughtered and having every treaty broken wasn’t enough to make Indians mad at whites?
“Being slaughtered and having every treaty broken wasn’t enough to make Indians mad at whites?”
Not enough to reject white man’s medicine.
Why should Indians reject white man’s medicine, it is owed to them by treaty rights.
Sibson must believe it is okay to go against the Constitution and violate treaties.
I found it very interesting to read these comments. The only clarification I would Like to add is this:
This is not something brought about by outside sources, in fact students of Sisseton school have requested these changes in the past, but were ignored. Also, the tribal council has a standing resolution in support of change. My kids, nieces, nephews that go to Sisseton feel uncomfortable about the homecoming and mascot. We have seemed outside assistance with the issue, however.
The bottom line, is that there is too much data showing the harmful affects of stereotypical imagery. When studies show something is unhealthy for students the obvious choice should be to remove it from the school. That is what we hope to do here.
Sibby’s an idiot. Christian my ass Sibson. Shut up.
“it is owed to them by treaty rights.”
This entitlement thinking is what causes people to covet. That violates Biblical Christian principles. And Sierra has just proven, this “white privilege” hate propaganda is being shoved down the throats of the kids in public schools:
“White privilege is being used to assist the Presidents fundamental transform of America. The goal of white privilege is not to create cultural sensitivity, but to eradicate what the left hates the most, the white Christian male. It is a dangerous ideology that will turn the current generation of kindergartners into tomorrow’s Nazi’s ready to round up all who stand in the way of a multicultural utopia. If we are to stop this and take our children’s minds back from these radical hate mongers we have to put the love of them, the love of country and the desire to pursue truth above all else.”
http://www.propaganda.news/2016-02-25-exposing-the-source-of-white-privilege-education.html
And Spike just provided evidence to support the excerpt premise as to what the real agenda is that is being implemented by social justice bullies.
So an annual event that honors SD Indian heritage no longer can no longer depict Indians?
Sorry for the error in the last post. What really is Ki-Yi Days? Is this another incident kind of like the UND Fighting Sioux where the liberals want to take away something else honoring Indians because they feel they know what is best for them?
(White guy says white people wearing traditional native garb honors natives and they should feel honored)
(Says other white people saying it’s inappropriate is liberals saying they know what’s best for natives)
(Black hole of self-awareness destroys all of existence)
Let’s see if I remember my history of whites and Indians. Whitey shows up on Indian territory and brings along smallpox which Indians have no natural defense against and so they die in great numbers.
Next Whitey shows up with white man’s medicine to make Indian drunk so Indian forgets Whitey gave them smallpox.
How am I doing so far? Whitey say go live over there,sign paper, you go live there forever. Forever lasts about a week in Whitey time and soon Indian must sign more paper. Indian confused. Whitey has forked tongue. The end.
“What really is Ki-Yi Days? ”
It is about love conquering hate. The liberals use that to justify the gays lifestyle, but they must not really mean it.
The social Justice bullies’ democratic pluralism doesn’t mix well. Orlando showed how the Islamic community cannot peaceably co-exist with gays. And now the liberals premise on Indian racism doesn’t support the gays “love not hate” mantra.
Mike, you forgot to mention white man’s technology. Do Indians today hate it or embrace it?
Get up to speed,Stumpy. They are officially the North Dakota Fighting Hawks.
Is there any chance Sibson is satire or is the guy honestly this full-blown potato?
Mike, that’s because liberals don’t care about offending Hawks, they just seem to know what’s best for everyone else on the earth, even if everyone else is okay with things. I am sure Ki-Wi days are like the Fighting Sioux logo, the cause for everything wrong with Native life. The Sioux logo has been gone for two years or more and you know what, there are still drugs, alcoholism, child abuse and violent crime still rampant on reservations. Guess what Ki-Yi Days are not even close to the problems that Natives have, but liberals never want to address the problems, they just like to hide behind feel good politically correct deeds that make others think they really care!
Let’s do things your way,Stumpy. Everyone would be dead from diseases, cancers,guns,starvation, overwork, lack of healthcare,hate,exposure to extreme weather or plain old general malaise, etc,etc.
The survivors would ….. wait they’d be dead too.
but, I’d bet you’ll come up with some dandy taxcuts for the dead wealthy, won’t you?
Dicta, I know potatoes. I grow potatoes. Potatoes are some of my best friends. Sibby,is no potato.
Mike, you missed by question on whether today’s Indian hate technology or embrace it.
And nobody is able to respond to the point that Ki-Yi Days was a celebration of love conquering hate. Why are liberals against that, after they say they are for it at so-called “pride” events?
Stum is just a drive-by troll and has shown his inability to discuss the issues with integrity. Please don’t feed him.
Steve – you seem to miss a lot of questions or statements pointed at you because they are inconvenient for you to answer. Thus it is only fair when others simply ignore your many comments. They have no responsibility to respond to your continually evolving thought processes.
That said, you seem to covet Cory’s blog and the attention it attracts. You know what they say about coveting Steve.
[Craig, I am trying to not respond to personal attacks and off-topic questions out of respect for Cory’s wishes regarding his blog? He is right, this should not be about me.]
With that said, my point regarding Ki-Yi Days being a celebration of love defeating hate still stands. Why shouldn’t liberals embrace it instead of attacking with a false premise that it is racist? The result is generating more hatred by Indians (and others) toward whites.
I haven’t attacked you Steve, but I have pointed out how your attempt to paint this as a free speech issue was ill-informed. It seems when you lack a valid counter-argument you simply shift the focus elsewhere. You don’t appear interested in a real discussion but rather just want to spread your personal worldview. You can do that on your own blog rather than coveting Cory’s readership.
As to Ki-Yi days the message wasn’t the issue. I didn’t see anyone (white or Native) claim the message was negative. However you can still use the same message without the need to dress up like Indians. You can still have the same positive “love defeating hate” message without appropriating a culture. You claim it is a “false premise” that the event was racist, but I’m not sure we can really apply that term. I agree the intent wasn’t racism, but it was culturally insensitive and some felt it was racist perhaps not by design, but by result.
I don’t see how updating this activity to remove the stereotypical imagery which is seen as harmful to some would thus generate more hatred towards whites. On the contrary, I’m sure you will see the Native Americans in Watertown in full support of the changes as it no longer results in them being mocked or singled out.
The only negativity generated as the result of these changes appears to be from those who simply cannot see things through the eyes of others. They “hate” the fact the world is evolving and that cultures are able to acknowledge and respect one another, because it seems they are less comfortable when their own culture/race/religion are no longer considered superior. Darn shame that is.
Craig,
I have commented numerous times that Sibson sinfully covets Dakota Free Press and he always ignores the question.
Unsuccessful blogger Sibson seems to think that the white man has a license on all technology, ignoring the contributions made by China, Japan, and so many other countries. Are we now to use technology according to who developed what and when?
It amazes me how liberals hate the truth and can not respond to opposing viewpoints with anything other than calling people trolls. I have posed numerous questions on here over the past year that never can be answered with anything other than insults or just calling me a troll and moving on. Again, what harm is truly being done with Ki-Yi Days? True harm, not trumped up things that you think are harmful. Is any problem in the native communities really being caused by Ki-Yi Days. Do people go to Ki-Yi Days and make fun of natives. I think the image of natives of the past are much better than the image one gets when driving through a reservation now. And guess what, as the so called progressive party, to sit back and blame problems on things that went on over 100 years ago is sad. To think natives can continue to live off of the land and have a century year old lifestyle while the rest of world moves on is just plain ignorant. If you want to help the natives, get them off the reservation, be progressive and quit whining about insignificant things like Ki-Yi Days. Craig, please continue in your vanilla world without trying to offend anyone other than everyone who doesn’t fall in step with you viewpoint.
Roger, nice way to duck my point by putting forward a strawman. Do Indians hate white man’s technology or embrace it? What is the problem Roger, your hatred for the white man is so deep that you cannot give them a compliment?
Stumcfar made some good points on Craig’s position. And I would like to add that by controlling who we celebrate homecoming is a free speech issue. So now Watertown has to stop celebrating love conquering evil and instead celebrate the dark age. Perhaps that is more accurate than saying ” the world is evolving and that cultures are able to acknowledge and respect one another”. The exact opposite is happening. If you people are serious about stopping the hate, then stop hating white male Christian conservatives. Instead, look at what we can contribute to the discussion. The “us vs them” mentality is part of the economic elites divide and conquer agenda.
“who we celebrate homecoming ”
Sorry, S/B “how we celebrate homecoming”
“Instead, look at what we can contribute to the discussion.”
I’m waiting…. but I have yet to see anything.
Sibson,
There are enough people that either read or comment on DFP that know I don’t hate the white man.
What I do have is a serious contempt for you Sibson, as a supposed Christian you continually promote false Christianity and ignorant and stupid opinions.
Now answer the damn question, why do you COVET Dakota Free Press? Is it because you are so superior that you are exempt from the sin of coveting?
So now Watertown has to stop celebrating love conquering evil and instead celebrate the dark age.
No they don’t. They just have to stop doing it making a mockery out of Indian culture. You god forsaken kristians think you do Indians better than Indians do.
I understand that you guys really like your little lovefest here and any opposing viewpoint does not contribute to the conversation because it isn’t what you want to talk about or promote. We see this in government today from both sides of the aisle and we are all guilty of never listening to the other side. I am not sure why some of you resent and immediately dismiss anything said in opposition instead of reading it and seeing the logic to some people. I do not buy into the logic that if even one person finds something offensive, then it is automatically wrong and must go. History can not be rewritten and even though some of you find a personal victory and satisfaction in something as trivial to the big picture as changing Ki-Yi Days, I have to believe you are actually smart enough to realize it does nothing in the long run to help the Native Americans and it is mostly “we got our way again” for a minority of liberals.
Sibby can’t have a love defeats hate message. He is caught up wanting everyone to hate him so he can have his little woe is me, pity party-everyone hates me. He works hard to get people to dislike him. It is a mania for him. He goes way out of his way to aggravate anyone/everyone.
Do away with all school mascots and homecoming crap ceremonies. They divert attention away from reality and serve no useful education purpose.
If anything serve a good meal and leave the socializing unstructured.
Sibby has to go out of his way to get people to dislike him. For Mike it comes naturally. Spoken like a true liberal Douglas. Lets do away with all tradition and celebrations that have been around forever. Lets not have mascots or for sure not Homecoming, because you may have to crown a Queen and King and then some poor little soul will get hurt because they didn’t win and that would like bullying! Putting an end to Ki-Yi Days, diverts attention away from reality and serves no useful purpose. Well put Douglas.
In Utah it isn’t four wheelers and ammosexuals damaging Indian archeological sites with rock saws and guns. It’s badgers. Dumb Indians didn’t decide to ask to make the area a national monument, they were pushed by environmentalists.
http://wonkette.com/603215/utah-rep-being-bit-of-a-racist-lying-dick-to-the-indians
Easy Stump. Settle down. I ain’t that kind of guy. You are growing waaaayyyyy too fond of me.
Bush’s 2008 GOP world economic collapse is still killing Russia’s 70% export oil economy, just like Venezuela’s largest world oil reserve dependent economy. Nationalization smashionalization. BBC 01192015
Stumcfar,
Good grief, I just think homecoming ceremonies are silly and rather than liberal, I think doing away with stupidity in this case is rather conservative. In any case, why do whites hated by Native Americans want to have ceremonies in any way shape or form which remotely suggest that such a stone-age culture has anything whatsoever that is relevant to a modern world or modern education. Give them what they want in spades.
I am struggling to figure out if Sibson or Leslie makes more specious arguments. Good god.
“specious arguments”
You are barking at the wrong tree. The propaganda is in our schools and promoting by the media. Ki-Yi Days and people using the right restrooms were accepted norms not long ago. Now we have social justice bullies smacking down anyone who dares cross their lines drawn in the sand. The engineering of consent leads to self-censorship. A very covert method of attacking free speech.
One has to admit that their past is much worthy of ceremonies than the present. Why do they hate the white man so much. Because of something none of them lived through or dealt with? Are they still mad because their way of life ended as it would have eventually anyway. Or are they mad at all the continued tax dollars that are poured into reserves making them forever dependent on the white man for survival?
Roger, did I read Sibby correctly up there? Did he claim that treaty rights are really just an example of the entitlement mentality? We make a deal—we essentially sign a contract with a nation whom we hound into defeat—and that nation’s “mentality” that they are “entitled” to the goods and services promised in the deal is mistaken?
Hmmm… so if Iran doesn’t comply with the 2015 nuclear framework, we shouldn’t impose sanctions, because we aren’t entitled to expect that a foreign country would do what it agrees to do?
Hmmm… so the bank that has my mortgage needs to get over its entitlement mentality and not freak out when I skip my mortgage payment this month? Gotta buy firecrackers, ya know!
Hmmm… so teachers should get over their entitlement mentality and not fuss if their school boards don’t issue paychecks for the work they did last month?
This is why I find it fruitless to debate with Sibby for long, because his comments dissolve into illogic.
Same for you, Stumcfar. The tribes don’t trust the white government, because the white government keeps failing to live up to its obligations, to promises made by our nation years ago that are still valid, no matter how much you want to pretend that those of us who enjoy the privileges of our ancestors’ conquests bear no obligations to the descendants of those who were wronged and continue to live under our oppression… as if we are entitled not only to the fruits of conquest but to clean consciences.
Eve and Adam ate that apple—how come I still have to atone for original sin?
Sibson- Expecting countries to honor treaties is entitlement thinking, grow up
Leslie- a country nationalizing oil and then letting it account for over 95% of its exports is Bush’s fault.
I dunno, Cory. We got a neck and neck race here.
Stumcfar: Republicans are the party that likes to Trump things up. We liberals (since you can only speak in generalizations and bogeymen) work from evidence… as Supt. Jutting does when she cites the research showing that misappropriating indigenous cultural images in school mascots and ceremonies does measurable harm to students. Click the link I included at the top of the second paragraph of my original post. I wasn’t making stuff up; you were just in too much of a hurry to shout about us liberals again to pay attention to the information provided.
“This is why I find it fruitless to debate with Sibby for long, because his comments dissolve into illogic.”
Cory, sad that you decide to place this discussion about me, one day after going after me for making the discussion about me.
Of course the treaty agreement gives the Indians the entitlement mindset. They deserve white man’s technologically advanced healthcare, but they whine that we don’t “treat” then the way they want to be treated. What more do they want?
“The tribes don’t trust the white government, because the white government keeps failing to live up to its obligations”
Same goes for gun rights, religious rights, and First Amendment rights Cory. The liberals say the Constitution is a living document, so that includes treaties too. Right? Or does the politically correct social justice bullies want their cake and eat it too? Take rights away from the white man, but give special rights to Indians and gays? All fueled by an agenda of hate.
“decide to place this discussion about me”
Sorry, should be: decide to make this discussion about me
The hypocrisy is over whelming Cory.
“This is why I find it fruitless to debate with Sibby for long, because his comments dissolve into illogic.”
You’re pretty generous, Cory. I find them to be liquid to begin with. And not liquid you’d want to wash your hands in.
Sibby, you’re a nut.You aren’t a smart nut. You’re a nut nut. You need help.
mike from iowa, quit insulting nuts, even nuts have a purpose, you know.
Only Sibson could arrive at a conclusion that says treaties are entitlements for Indians, Sibson needs to go back to school and learn what at treaty is.
Actually Indians are quite soft on the government when it comes to treaty rights, for the most part they have concentrated on healthcare.when in fact we are due, not entitled, to a hell of a lot more.
Sibson and that stump fella complain about why Indians hate whites while not considering some serious factors. Many of us came up through the Jim Crow era or had relatives that did. There are still issues of blatant racism against Indians across the state and the nation.
It is my firm belief that all Indians don’t hate all whites, if so I have not seen any evidence.
When I go after Sibson I don’t do so because he is white, I do so because he is stupid and insults Indian people, including myself.
I’ve never attacked all the good commenters on DFP, I have attacked specific people and their foul comments about Indian people.
Sibson, when you make disparaging comments about an entire race of people, as you frequently do, that is called racism laced with white privilege because you are of the dominant society.
Sibson and stump are what is wrong with South Dakota and its problem with racial relations, when Indians and non-Indians alike refer to South Dakota as upper Mississippi it is because of Sibson and Stump.
I still have much manly admiration for you, Mr. Sibby, even if all these out-of-staters and Mr. C hate you. And it did occur to me that Mr. C really has probably the most right to an opinion on these matters and we should consider his thoughts with more weight than some out-of-state non-Indians.
Sibby, unless you personally checked everyone’s junk in every bathroom every day, you have no idea who used which bathrooms when. You assume the world was much better yesterday, but you really have no freaking clue,do you? You and Stumpy just don’t get what is going on. You are totally out of touch with the world. Get help.
F_U Grudz. I got Cherokee blood. Indian, city and county.
“Only Sibson could arrive at a conclusion that says treaties are entitlements for Indians, Sibson needs to go back to school and learn what at treaty is.”
So if treaties are not entitlements, then they don’t have to be honored. Is that what happened? Is that what you learned in school Roger? Lets learn about the treaty that pertains to you Roger. Can you provide a link so I can read it?
The Constitution does not provide entitlements, is that what you liberals think? Rights are not entitlements, so take away the AR15s. But you are entitled by the Constitution to walk into any restroom you want? Cory, can you explain that logic. And how celebrating love trumps hate needs to end at Watertown’s homecoming because it is racist is a logical position for those who think gays will use love to defeat hate. Cory, please explain how your hypocritical positions is logical. And isn’t the moral relativism of the liberals a rejection of rational thought? So how can you judge me in regard to logic, when you have rejected logic as a worldview. Isn’t truth whatever one wants it to be, and the truth can change under certain circumstances? Is that why you can say blacks and Indians can’t make racists statements, only whites can be charged with that Cory? Sounds like we have found the very foundation for the social justice bullies.
And how celebrating love trumps hate needs to end at Watertown’s homecoming
Sibby, you are full of it. You are lying your a$$ off. Nothing has ended but the costumes and your ever loving mind.
Wonder how bush’s very GOP V.P. Halliburton got his meat hooks into venezuala’s oil reserves as 87 prct of its people starve and electricity is failing from global warming, i mean drought?
Perhaps GOP rank obstructionism and world economic exploitation effect welfare of other nations like ‘lil red state racism can lead to social unrest. Watertown has moved us purple!
“So if treaties are not entitlements, then they don’t have to be honored.”
Solid thinking Steve. I simply cannot understand why, in all the times you have run for public office, that you have never been even remotely close to winning an election.
You shouldn’t covet what has been promised to the Native Americans via the treaties that our nation’s leadership willingly signed. If you don’t agree with the treaties, then you have only your ancestors to blame for coveting the land which was never theirs to begin with.
Craig, I have not seen what was signed as treaties. I am sincerely interested. Like most other issues, I don’t think we have been given the straight truth.
What I have been wondering about is the concept that socialists hate capitalists, but they think they are entitled to the wealth that is created even though they do little to contribute. What short of medicine would Indians have today if we did not arrive? Are they entitled to more than that, based on the treaty agreements?
An Indian told me that they are insulted because we call then poor. They don’t view materialism as a sign of wealth, yet he admitted that their goal is to get as much of a free ride off the materialistic capitalist system that they can. I appreciate those who value relationships more than big screen TVs, but seems like the Indians are trying to have it both ways. And that mindset is not specific to their race. It is just they have unique situation that has been created by the reservation system. I question whether the right decisions had been made in the past. I would like to find a way that would be fair to all. Or do we all have to decide on only one economic system and way of life?
For those interested here is the Fort Laramie Treaty of 1868:
http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/resources/archives/four/ftlaram.htm
For those interested in understanding our Country’s legal obligations to provide health care for Natives and understanding how we breached our promises, check out this report from the United States Commission on Civil Rights:
https://www.law.umaryland.edu/marshall/usccr/documents/cr122004024431draft.pdf
“Based on a Commission briefing, interviews, research, and a review of relevant literature, the report concludes that our nation’s lengthy history of failing to keep its promises to Native Americans includes the failure of Congress to provide the resources necessary to create and maintain an effective health care system for Native Americans.”
US policy concerning tribal relations has been guided more by the Discovery Doctrine than treaties. Thomas Jefferson declared in 1792 that the Doctrine of Discovery of the original European land acquisitions would extend to the new US government. It has been cited in Supreme Court cases dating back to 1824 in Johnson v McIntosh by Chief Justice John Marshall and in Cherokee Nation v Georgia, Oliphant v. Suquamish Indian Tribe and Duro v Reina.
As recently as 2005, the Doctrine of Discovery was cited in City of Sherrill v NY v. Oneida Nation: “Under the ‘doctrine of discovery…’ fee title (ownership) to the lands occupied by Indians when the colonists arrived became vested in the sovereign-first the discovering European nation and later the original states and the United States.”
Im guessing that nobody is interested in the constitution at this point. That thing about all men created equal must be a lie. Some seem to be more equal then others. Yes treaties are intitelments when nobody else gets the same thing. How could you see it any other way?
Not that it matters much, the only way to.make all this fair is single payer for all, or none. There is no race sex or religion better then all the others.
The Blindman
BCB, the treaty document does not contain “healthcare” or “medical”. The closest word match is “WAM-BU-LEE-WAH-KON, his + mark, Medicine Eagle”, one of the signers. Was that suppose to the healthcare, a medicine man?
BCB, your second link says:
“It has long been recognized that Native Americans are dying of diabetes, alcoholism,tuberculosis, suicide, and other health conditions at shocking rates. Beyond disturbingly high mortality rates, Native Americans also suffer a significantly lower health status and disproportionate rates of disease compared with all other Americans.”
Does lifestyle have anything to do with the issue? Sure enough:
“The Commission’s report documents the existence of cultural, social and structural barriers that continue to limit Native American access to health care.”
“Indian Health Service reports that “lifestyle and behavioral issues contribute to almost 70% of the diseases that occur at a higher rate in Indian country.”
How to you instill “personal accountability”? And I see the same problem among welfare cases, regardless of race. It cost way more money to provide healthcare to those who refuse to take care of themselves.
I read several reports and studies last night and I could not find one that had a way to quantify or prove that mascots, logos or anything else had a negative effect on Natives. Sure they all concluded that they felt they did, but none that could actually really show any proof that they did. It is mainly liberals who know again what is best for people. Also, most natives could care less about mascots and were not offended until liberals told them they were offended. One reservation in ND voted to keep the Sioux logo and the other would have also if they would have been allowed to vote. It seems some people want to keep the Native past in front of people and others, liberals (that is who is always on here) want to keep the Indian past in the past and continue to throw money at reservations and keep Natives under their thumbs. I guess they want a few more votes.
“I guess they want a few more votes.”
BINGO
2 tribes in ND voted to keep the logo. The 3rd tribe never got to vote because the elders made the decision to not support the logo. The tribal members were in the process of going through the proper legal channels to allow their people to vote. Before they finished that process, the NCAA closed the door. Apparently, the NCAA does not believe in Democracy. Oh well, let all that heritage and culture fade into the past. The more references we remove, the less likely anyone will care about their history.
That’s your opinion Stump, but it’s settled now in Watertown. If y’all want to have a Ki Yi that’s fine, invite some of your buddies over and go have one in your backyard.
Everybody has different opinions of what’s considered in good taste or not.
According to the above linked report of the United States Commission on Civil Rights,
“This report compels the federal government to acknowledge the dire health care situation facing Native Americans. A long history of treaties and broken promises urges the federal government to recognize that the concept of fulfilling treaty promises through proper funding and effective administration is a moral imperative.”
Although the 1868 Treaty did not address health care directly, there are additional treaties and federal laws that do:
https://www.ihs.gov/newsroom/factsheets/basisforhealthservices/
“The trust relationship establishes a responsibility for a variety of services and benefits to Indian people based on their status as Indians, including health care. This relationship has been defined in case law and statute as a political relationship that further distinguishes Indians from racial classification for purposes of affirmative action laws and in other federal statutes that establish federally funded programs for the general public.
Treaties between the United States Government and Indian Tribes frequently call for the provision of medical services, the services of physicians, or the provision of hospitals for the care of Indian people. Even before these treaties, the United States Constitution specifically addressed the federal government’s primacy role in dealing with Indians in the commerce and treaty clauses. Supreme Court cases, such as Cherokee Nation v. Georgia (1831), specifically address the relationship between Tribes, states, and the federal government. Out of this case and others, the guardian/ward relationship was created that forms the basis of the trust relationship.”
Does that help Sibby?
Henry Kissinger wrote that treaties are only honored as long as they benefit all parties involved. A court decision made treaties superior to enacted laws.
“New York Times has a harrowing account of the depth of hunger in Venezuela. The country that received nearly $1 trillion in oil revenues in the last decade and a half, is now suffering from a humanitarian crisis of significant proportions. Let’s never forget, or let others forget, that this is the end result of yet another failed socialist experiment.” http://www.cato.org/blog/hunger-venezuela
as parroted by ditca and as said by CATO Institute “is an American libertarian think tank headquartered in Washington, D.C. It was founded as the Charles Koch Foundation in 1974.” wiki
I thought dicta was coming after me a little too vigorously. whew! :)
the KOCHS say, thru mouthpiece DICTA: “Let’s never forget, or let others forget, that this is the end result of yet another failed socialist experiment.” yes mr. Kochs. or is it mrs. Koch?
get outta this state!
Dicta-u wanna talk substance? Nyt 6.21 opinion sure sounds like GOP are the bastards just like Venezuela’s PM. Right down the line GOP has done the same thing here. You think the lower stratas of the 99 % aren’t subject to starvation?. Class revolt might be closer than u think.
Oh, that’s a real great argument. Venezuela’s former head of state was an ass, some GOP politicians are asses, ergo REVOLT. And no, the GOP has not followed the same policies as Chavez. You are what happens when feeling strongly about something trumps facts and you’re just as bad as Sibson.
Sec, I’m receiving my next talking points from my Koch Brothers ham radio.