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Fascist Trump Also Fiscal Fantasist… Just Like Reagan and Romney

Unlike most Republicans, Donald Trump is a fascist. But like most Republicans running for President, Donald Trump is a fantasist on fiscal policy, peddling the same voodoo economics on which Ronald Reagan got the GOP hooked:

Not surprisingly, the most extreme plan is Donald Trump’s. He would slash taxes across the board, reducing revenues by nine and a half trillion dollars over the next decade, according to estimates by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. Yet he has also promised to balance the budget, protect Social Security and Medicare, and not cut services. How? Well, he says he’ll get rid of “waste and fraud and abuse,” and abolish the Department of Education and the Environmental Protection Agency. And he thinks that the tax cuts would spur an economic boom, so that revenues will actually increase.

This is pure fantasy. Those spending cuts would save just a tiny fraction of what he claims, and the revenue projections have no basis in reality. Yet, unrealistic as Trump’s ideas are, they differ from those of his chief opponents only in degree, not in kind. Marco Rubio wants to couple a $6.8-trillion tax cut with significant increases in defense spending, while Ted Cruz has proposed an $8.6-trillion tax cut with—guess what?—significant increases in defense spending. Naturally, Rubio and Cruz have been vague about where they’d find the necessary trillions in cuts, and about how what the government does would be affected… [James Surowiecki, “The Campaign of Magical Thinking,” The New Yorker, 2016.03.21].

The Republican Party is struggling to disown and defeat Trump because he is playing the fiddle that the Republican Party has strung:

In proffering a tax plan that seems self-evidently absurd, Trump is merely building on the foundation that Republican predecessors laid down and, as is his wont, pushing their ideas further than anyone thought they could go. In Trump, the Republican establishment has met its enemy: itself [Surowiecki, 2016.03.21].

That’s why Mitt Romney sounds so absurd trying to take Trump down on policy: criticize Trump’s fiscal policies (and what a surprise to be reminded he has offered some), and you criticize the GOP.

Related Reading: In response to Cokie Roberts’s vigorous criticism of Donald Trump, NPR is scrambling to clarify her role as commentator, not reporter. I just heard NPR reporter David Greene tell Roberts he’s “little disappointed to hear you come out and take a personal position on something like this in a campaign.” Greene, you should not be disappointed; you should be proud… and let Roberts have the mic.

68 Comments

  1. mike from iowa 2016-03-14

    If Herr Drumpf intends to get rid of waste and abuse,he will have to fire himself. An egomaniac on super duper steroids.

  2. Bill Dithmer 2016-03-14

    “S— runs downhill, never chew your fingernails, and payday is friday.” Mel Tillis ” Beer for my horses”

    The Blindman

  3. happy camper 2016-03-14

    And the lack of an immigration policy so the GOP could keep these voters. Hasn’t Trump captured the heart of the rank and file Tea Party types? The stereotype anyway. Emotion over logic.

    Looks like Roberts has been classified as a commentator for years but this is the first time she’s acted like one. Even Cronkite eventually said the jig is up.

  4. kingleon 2016-03-14

    As to NPR, they are in a tough situation: remember that their funding has been threatened repeatedly by Congress due to a perception of ‘liberal bias’. A better bellweather is the scientists–like political scientists and statisticians at FiveThirtyEight, who are increasingly concerned that there isn’t enough being said about the dangers that individuals like Trump pose to democracies.

    Given NPR’s dependency on federal grant money, we should be pointing fingers at media that aren’t so hamstrung by public money, and yet haven’t reached HuffPo levels of calling Trump out, like CNN, Fox News and MSNBC. All of those have done their part, somewhat, of asking hard questions (Tapper was the one who got Trump to waffle about the KKK on cable TV, after all), but that’s not enough. A strong, interrogational media is needed to kill populist fascism.

    Don’t you remember post Super Tuesday where it ‘felt’ like Trump was going to clinch the nomination? (At least it felt that way to me, and many that I know…) That seems a lot less certain now–and it was never that certain! Trump is still pulling in only ~34% of the Republican vote, and the Republican voters themselves are a minority in this country! That shared feeling is that that ‘gut’ reaction is a result of the effect that fascist campaigns have on media, and on people’s perceptions. We need reminders constantly that not only is Trump everything we’ve told ourselves isn’t-American-values for years (racism, fascism, authoritarian, etc), but also reminders of just how weak and phony his campaign is. How ‘sad’!

    Want a dose of Trump weakness? Here’s some numbers. The media (particular foreign media) sometimes mis-portrays Trump as a popular figures with a huge swell of supporters. Untrue! As of Saturday, Trump has had 4,344,542 Americans vote for him in caucuses and primaries. Bernie has had (at least) 3,297,222 votes, and Hilary has had (at least) 4,943,788 votes. Why the ‘at least’? Well, IA, NV and ME don’t report votes, but state district delegates, and the turnout on the Democratic side in ME wasn’t even reported (as far as I can tell). But we can take the proportion of district delegates won and the turnout, and get rough approximations for the no-ME votes… that puts Hilary at 5,073,355 votes and Bernie at 3,421,824 votes. So, that comforts me late at night. More people (probably a little less than a million) have pulled levers and put their names on little slips of paper and said they’d elect Hilary Clinton than Donald Trump in this election cycle.

    The Donald not getting as many votes as The Hilary? Sad! What a loser.

  5. happy camper 2016-03-14

    Moderate voters (often blasted here by commenters as having no core or convictions) will be the ones that elect Hillary with you better hope sufficient Republicans. There are some blue collar Democrats and labor unions supporting Trump.

    “The labor unions, who usually support the Democrats, a lot of our members, and a lot of their families, are supporting Trump,” said Keith Strobelt, a political director for the United Steelworkers local union in Canton. Strobelt does not support Trump.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-ohio-insight-idUSKCN0WC19Q

  6. Bill Dithmer 2016-03-14

    Nothin to do with this post, but I think that the man that sucker punched the protester in Citown, was in a teabagger demonstration a couple years ago packing heat.

    The Blindman

  7. Bill Dithmer 2016-03-14

    ” I view him as a radical and a racist and I don’t want to be affiliated with that,” Green said. “But if you say what you mean, a lot of guys see that in Trump and they respect that. He doesn’t dance around the issues, he takes them head on. There are a fair amount of our members who do support Donald Trump.”

    See thats the problem for me. Head on must mean something completely different then what it means to me. He talks in generalities but doesnt give details. His wall on the mexican border whit Mexico paying the bill is just one of many.

    I hate all politicians for that same reason drive by politics has become the norm in this country.

    The Blindman

  8. Bill Dithmer 2016-03-14

    Lawyers
    politicians
    incompetent doctors
    Insurance people, both those who sell and those who guestimate
    And Doctor Phil

    All as worthless as breast on a boar hog.

    The Blindman

  9. Rorschach 2016-03-14

    The GOP party reaps what it sows. So why not nominate the grim reaper?

  10. happy camper 2016-03-14

    Most people are not reading every day down to nuts and bolts. There’s some primitive thing going on remember what we are. Trump isn’t stupid. If he wins the nomination he will tone down his rhetoric to win moderate Republicans. This thing is fluid. What if Hillary had a big scandal or got sick. You never know. It’s time to be nicer to Moderates cause you need them.

  11. mike from iowa 2016-03-14

    Can’t ask a wingnut for specifics,. They scream “gotcha question,no fairsies.”

  12. mike from iowa 2016-03-14

    A Wisconsin teacher asked a wingnut politician how come Minnesota is able to spend so much more on education and have a budget surplus. The wingnut woman walked out in a huff and later accused the teacher of “vile political speech.”

    http://tinyurl.com/gvz78m7

  13. Bill Dithmer 2016-03-14

    How do I dislike thee let me count the ways.

    Cruz, would try to god us to death.

    Trump, would have every trade partner against us. Can you say cell phones and flatscreen tvs and mexico, because thats where most of them come from.

    Rubio, with so many missteps and vebal fupas who could trust him at the reins?

    Sanders, could never get the support for all of his expensive programs.

    And Clinton, like the GOP candidates is beholden to Wallstreet.

    It’s a sorry bunch to choose from.

    The Blindman

  14. Craig 2016-03-14

    The typical Trump supporter doesn’t care about specifics. They haven’t bothered to ask any questions to this point and those who I’ve encountered cannot explain in any detail how he will improve the economy, cut taxes, eliminate illegal immigration, regulate the financial system, strengthen the military or anything else.

    I’m going to be blunt here. I feel that most people who support Trump go out of their way to make excuses for why such as “he isn’t a politician”, “he has been a successful businessman”, “he is an outsider” or other equally incorrect and ignorant statements. However, in my view, the real reason many people support him is that he has essentially supported their closet racist, sexist, and xenophobic tendencies. Of course nobody is going to admit they don’t like “brown people” or that they hate women because that isn’t PC. That said, I see far too many similarities between the types of people who attend his rallies and voice support for him as I do with those who try to blame society’s problems on a specific race or those pesky illegals.

    Find me someone show shares facebook posts about how great Trump is, and I’ll show you someone who was sharing birther info about Obama or expresses outrage every time someone mentions the Black Lives Matter movement or Al Sharpton.

  15. Bill Dithmer 2016-03-14

    I used to think that Al was ok, but his hypocrisy during the little uprising here in Mo and his money problems show that he cant be trusted when it comes to any lives let alone black ones. He agrivated the situation here, he never helped.

    The Blindman

  16. mikeyc, that's me! 2016-03-14

    Craig-
    You are spot on.
    “I LOVE poorly educated people!”
    –Donald Trump–

  17. mike from iowa 2016-03-14

    Afghan Ann Colder sent out a clarion call for Trump supporters to visit more violence on protesters at Trump hate fests. When more violence occurs,Colder will claim to be the victim in typical wingnut fashion.

  18. caheidelberger Post author | 2016-03-14

    Happy, interesting 32% Tea Party/Trump overlap stat. I’d have expected a higher overlap, too. But consider that Cruz is a veteran Tea Partier, a product of the 2010–2012 surge of that amorphous movement. So a large portion of Tea Party people already have their guy. On the other side, the Trump people are latching onto the cult of personality. The Tea Party never had a head, a face, a true Führer. Trump offers that appeal to people who wouldn’t get out of their chairs for some vague movement but will mobilize to roar and salute Il Duce. Might that explain the unexpectedly low Tea Party quotient?

  19. mike from iowa 2016-03-14

    Loopy Louie Gohmert,wingnut dingbat of NE Texas says Joos that like Obama hate themselves. My,my,my how wingnuts are expanding their sphere of influence to non-white groups. Rafael Cruz’s campaign gave a million bucks to Snarly Fiorina’s campaign last summer and this past week she endorsed Cruz. Payback?

  20. Les 2016-03-14

    For many years, the first to invoke Hitler lost on this site. Suddenly it is par for the course. I’m not a Trump fan. Anyone but Hillary. Obama agrees with me. Let’s wait it out and see whom he provides.

    Lots of people on this site holding themselves much higher than a working class to busy to spend all day getting educated by money power trolls. America is fed up and that will not continue another 20 years without the change our President promised and I don’t consider my insurance bill that has quadrupled the change we need.

  21. happy camper 2016-03-14

    Although what does involved with the Tea Party movement mean? If respondents thought that meant actively involved not just prior voters that’s quite different. It would make sense actively involved stayed Tea Party but Trump could still have hugely robbed prior Tea Party voters.

    His platform so far of basically just “Kiss My Ass” connects with working class voters who’ve lost the most. My guess they disdain welfare and over-educated types which includes a lot of blue collar Democrats. As unions have lost power they see less of a future. He’s gonna run out of angry white guys they keep saying, but if he wins the nomination probably the remaining Tea Party will get behind him. If he softens the message plenty of GOP loyalists. Don’t cut him short.

  22. Craig 2016-03-14

    Les what kind of change are you looking for? 20 million more Americans have health insurance. Osama Bin Laden dead. Gas is under $1.80 in most of the country. Annual budget deficit lowered by 75%. Unemployment rate under 4.5%. Over 70 straight months of job growth. Legalization of same sex marriage.

    Seems to me that hopey-changy thing has sort of worked out.

    As far as your insurance bill…. I don’t believe for a second that your bill has quadrupled unless you are leaving out some rather important details (employment change, shifting to a different insurance plan or company etc.). All things being equal the increases in insurance rates over the past two years hasn’t been more than the five years prior, so if you experienced a 400% increase you would be quite the anomaly.

  23. caheidelberger Post author | 2016-03-14

    Les, you refer to Godwin’s Law, which we have frequently invoked here. Godwin’s Law says that as online discussions carry on, the probability that someone will invoke Hitler approaches 1. The rule has been stretched to mean that the first person to invoke Hitler loses the argument, but the progenitor of the law, Mike Godwin, says that the invocation of Hitler does not necessarily signify the invalidity of the argument. Quite the contrary, he says that some events, like the torture at Abu Ghraib, warrant comparison to Nazi actions.

    Trump warrants the comparison to fascists. He exemplifies the style of Hitler and Mussolini. Were I teaching a unit on fascism and propaganda, I might well assign students to compare and contrast Trump and Mussolini, since the examples are both easy to grasp and vitally important to understanding current events.

    The change people want is not the change Trump is offering. If they really want change, they need to look past the blustering billionaire bully and listen to real public servants with good ideas, like Bernie Sanders.

  24. caheidelberger Post author | 2016-03-14

    Hap, Trump isn’t Tea Party; he’s Archie Bunker.

    Craig, so you’re saying that the smart Democrat asks, “Are you better off now than you were eight years ago?” and vows to continue the Obama legacy?

  25. mike from iowa 2016-03-14

    Mussolini had a teeny wienie and a hot dog vendor in Chicago created a 3 inch long Trump foot long hot dog,so Trump and Il Doushie are even more alike.

  26. Les 2016-03-14

    My Wellmark policy in 2007 was 4500+/- annually with a $5000 deduct. Today it is over 12,000 with a 7500 deduct grandfathered in when the increases hit 12,000 and the higher deduct took us back to 9000 for a few years. To lower the deduct back to my 2007 level would put me 3000+ Annually over my current system.

    Your first paragraph contains many flaws, Craig. What is the actual unemployment? What is the actual freight traffic which indicates economy condition better than twisted government numbers, Cory can’t even decipher? 1.80 oil? Were you alive when they broke Russia with cheap oil and American oil was destroyed as collateral of that effect in the mid 80’s. Cheap oil then to if you can remember. Not so good for employees in the oil business along with a broken system to rebuild when America needed energy at home in the next century.

    Bin Laden? That really straightened up the Mideast. Thanks Prs Clinton And Bush for the close ties with the Bin Ladens. Oh yea, and thanks prez Obama and the rest of your team who played so well in tthe choreographed scenes from the war room that epic day. Where’s the body?

    Yes, I am better off than when Obama took office 7 plus years back. And I know 7 day work weeks didn’t build my business so I’ll give him the credit for that.

    You are choosing what is applicable to apply or not, nothing more than another spin using Godwin’s law, Cory.

  27. Les 2016-03-14

    With that out of the way, what were GW and Hilldawg doing all snuggled up today? Does it show any indication the two parties are really bonded at the hip and the Donald scares those on the throne?

  28. mike from iowa 2016-03-14

    Les,your sympathy for Big Oil is something. Fortunately,Alaska’s wingnuts knew enough to let Big Oil rewrite the royalty contract and add a few more little goodies for themselves, at the expense of the state and everyone of the state’s citizens.

    http://www.themudflats.net/archives/46917#comment-500282

    Poor Exxon, et al was just a paying too much in royalties for the state’s oil. Now the state is paying Exxon to take the oil. Wingnuts. You can’t live with them and you aren’t allowed to dispose of the dumb sobs!

  29. John Kennedy Claussen 2016-03-14

    Well, many Republicans in South Dakota have shown a recent fondness for sales taxes and increasing them. So maybe the Republicans at the national level could join this bandwagon with a national value added tax (VAT) to find an answer to their fuzzy fiscal math.

    Here is an interesting WSJ article from last fall about the GOP and the VAT concept:

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/value-added-tax-catches-on-in-republican-presidential-race-1447374891

    I specially got a kick out of Larry Summers analysis of the politics of a national VAT, when he stated:

    “The political downsides are well-known. Democratic economist Larry Summers has said for years that conservatives view the VAT as a money machine for big government, and liberals worry that it imposes too much of the tax burden on low-income households……When each side adopts the other’s view, Mr. Summers has joked, the U.S. will adopt a VAT.”

    A course in South Dakota, some fellow liberal Democrats have already made the change in terms of their sensitivity to a regressive tax system. Now, it is the GOP’s turn, nationally that is, to emulate the South Dakota GOP….and National Democrats are you game, too?…. ;-)

  30. happy camper 2016-03-14

    Trump isn’t Archie Bunker he’s playing to Archie Bunker. A lot of us grew up with parents like that and remember the song “didn’t need no welfare state, everybody pulled his weight.” Well too many study the freebies and decide what’s in their best interest. What liberals don’t understand there are still a lot of prideful people that don’t want a handout or a handup they just want a fair shake. You’re screwing up the system of equity and free markets just as bad as the Republicans. You think you’re helping people they don’t want your help. You think you know what’s best for everyone that’s their place to decide.

  31. mike from iowa 2016-03-14

    Oh fer crying out loud,Happy,cry me a river.

  32. Les 2016-03-14

    There was an old spaying when I grew up, “I’d scratch cheat with the chickens before I’d go on welfare.”

    Thanks, HC and John. All involved in politics are complicit and it is going to boil over for those who’ve worked hard and now feel their lives have been or are in vain. Includes unemployed in the oil world mifi.

    Please read what I wrote before your mouth runs, mifi. Breaking our oil industry in the 80’s cost the US billions over the last decades when we had no production.

    If the 1% make most of the income in SD, teachers are in the top 5-10% of SD population and they just(maybe) got a raise off the backs of those least able to afford.

    VAT will be simple and it won’t be as fair as the “Fair Tax” but we’ll still keep our income tax and call the system less regressive because the poor won’t have to pay that.

  33. Jana 2016-03-14

    The GOP has worked itself into destruction. Witness:

    – Lee Schoenbeck involved in trading scumbag playground taunts with GOP leader and threatens to take his ball home. Maturity weeps.
    – Trump is the leading candidate and party leaders are overdosing on Xanax
    – Alito dies and takes the constitution with him so GOP Senators can’t be unconstitutional
    – GOP base proves itself to be worse than Dems accuse them of.
    – Daugaard and company still can’t see any corruption or problem with equal rights
    – Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner is a Republican
    – SD legislative GOP keep their streak intact of embarrassing all of South Dakota
    – SD GOP delegation leads the league in being empty suits
    – Ted Cruz is the 2nd most popular GOP candidate…seriously?
    – SDWC has debased itself into obscurity

  34. Jana 2016-03-14

    So Les, would those farmers scratching cheat with chickens opposed to farm subsidies?

  35. Les 2016-03-14

    Would you be opposed to eliminating our federal governments cheap food policy, Jana? I kind of like poor folks having some opportunity in the grocery store.

  36. Jana 2016-03-14

    Oh Les, you Free Market zealot.

    Not sure that subsidies give us a cheap food policy. What would happen if there was actual free market practices in the farming and food industry?

    Seems eliminating subsidies and mandates on ethanol might drive food costs lower as well.

    Some dogmas hunt better than others.

    But I could be wrong.

  37. jerry 2016-03-14

    Here ya go Les, here is my main man Bernie Sanders idea of how free tuition would actually work and it would not break the bank. This guy Bernie is a thinker you would not have to scratch cheat in the barnyard with this guy in the drivers seat. His ideas and plans are so much more realistic and feasible than the rest of the mental midgets he is running against, all of them! http://thetab.com/us/umass-amherst/2016/03/12/umass-study-claims-bernie-sanders-tuition-free-college-plan-can-work-4291

  38. Les 2016-03-14

    I have not actively farmed since 1982. I never received any substantial subsidies and abhorred them believing they kept my commodities artificially low. I still think Corp farming will eventually fail by destroying that which protects the land as only a small farmer can do, Jana.

    You may have all kinds of names or acronyms for me, I have my experience. I look at what I pay for food and look for opportunity to help others with their needs. So, yes I “was” a free market zealot but think your confused as to when I was free market.

    Alcohol is for human consumption not vehicular.

    You know where I stand with Bernie, Jer.

  39. leslie 2016-03-14

    oh geez les. bush/Hillary conspiracy, right? u also said: “thanks prez Obama and the rest of your team who played so well in the choreographed scenes from the war room that epic day. Where’s the body?” easter joke, right?

    Obama said“We have history in Iran, we have history in Indonesia and Central America. So we have to be mindful of our history when we start talking about intervening, and understand the source of other people’s suspicions.”

    “Obama frequently reminds his staff that terrorism takes far fewer lives in America than handguns, car accidents, and falls in bathtubs do…. his admiration for Israelis’ ‘resilience’ in the face of constant terrorism…he would like to see resilience replace panic in American society.” http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/04/the-obama-doctrine/471525/

    secretary of defense, Ashton Carter said Obama has maintained his focus on Asia even as Syria and other Middle Eastern conflicts continue to flare. Obama believes that Asia “is the part of the world of greatest consequence to the American future, and that no president can take his eye off of this.”

    “there is a violent, radical, fanatical, nihilistic interpretation of Islam by a faction—a tiny faction—within the Muslim community that is our enemy, and that has to be defeated.”

  40. Darin Larson 2016-03-14

    Les, where do you come up with this stuff: “If the 1% make most of the income in SD, teachers are in the top 5-10% of SD population”

    The top 5% in South Dakota make $241,000 a year in household income. http://www.cbpp.org/sites/default/files/atoms/files/South_Dakota.pdf

    Last time I checked, the average of a two teacher household doesn’t make $100,000, let alone $241,000.

  41. mike from iowa 2016-03-15

    Getting rid of the Superfund Cleanup Tax cost citizens billions and rewarded irresponsible gun owne…..I mean irresponsible oil companies. Oil workers and companies are victims of free market practices. Ethanol subsidies have been cut for the last 3 years or so.

    Of course HRC met with dumbass dubya. She had to get dumbed down so she could debate Herr Drumpf on his feeble-minded level.

  42. Craig 2016-03-15

    Cory: “Craig, so you’re saying that the smart Democrat asks, “Are you better off now than you were eight years ago?” and vows to continue the Obama legacy?”

    Seemed to work for Reagan… I don’t see how it shouldn’t work for whoever wins the nomination for the Democrats.

    People can argue about trivial details, but I doubt many would be able to say they are worse of now than they were in 2008 as Bush was leaving office. History will judge the Obama Presidency… and I dare say history will be much more kind than the 24 hours news analysts and talk radio pundits that would like us all to believe Obama has been a failure.

  43. Craig 2016-03-15

    Les: “My Wellmark policy in 2007 was 4500+/- annually with a $5000 deduct. Today it is over 12,000 with a 7500 deduct grandfathered in when the increases hit 12,000 and the higher deduct took us back to 9000 for a few years. To lower the deduct back to my 2007 level would put me 3000+ Annually over my current system.”

    It makes me wonder how seriously we can take someone’s words when they equate an increase from 4500 to 9000 to something quadrupling. With that kind of math you should work for the Republican party doing their budget analysis.

    Les: “Your first paragraph contains many flaws, Craig. What is the actual unemployment?”

    We have ways to calculate unemployment Les and those metrics have not changed since Obama took office. You can distrust the numbers all day long but they use the same methodology as they have for decades and decades – and all indicators show us (prove to us) that unemployment is significantly down from where it was when Obama took office. Over 70 months of positive job growth cannot be dismissed just because you have a hunch that the numbers don’t tell the whole story.

    Les: “1.80 oil? Were you alive when they broke Russia with cheap oil and American oil was destroyed as collateral of that effect in the mid 80’s. Cheap oil then to if you can remember. Not so good for employees in the oil business along with a broken system to rebuild when America needed energy at home in the next century.”

    Nice speech, but the point is when Obama took office in the midst of the great-recession people (let’s not be coy – it was Republicans) were blaming Obama for $4 gasoline. Whether it is fair or not is beside the point because it is a metric that people use to judge leadership. I recently saw a photo of a car that pointed out what gas prices were when Obama took office and mocking him for it. The problem was in the background you could see a gas station sign where the current gas prices were around 20 cents a gallon cheaper than the figure the bumper sticker cited.

    So now we are supposed to act as if we are worried about oil being too cheap? Pick a lane. We can either blame the President for the price of gas, or we can absolve him of any responsibility… but the average person just cares about how much of their paycheck ends up in the tank, and since we saw how Obama was blamed for $4 gas, it is only fair he gets credit for it when it drops to below $1.80.

    Les: “Bin Laden? That really straightened up the Mideast. Thanks Prs Clinton And Bush for the close ties with the Bin Ladens. Oh yea, and thanks prez Obama and the rest of your team who played so well in tthe choreographed scenes from the war room that epic day. Where’s the body?”

    The point is, it was Obama’s leadership that put an end to the boogeyman. He deserves the credit as it was something his predecessor was unable to complete. Nobody said it would clean up the entire Mideast problem, but we also need to admit Obama isn’t the President that entered us into that mess.

    As far as your “where’s the body” comment I’ll just ignore that because I don’t waste time on conspiracy theorists who refuse to accept reality just because it doesn’t fit into their worldview.

    Les: “Yes, I am better off than when Obama took office 7 plus years back.”

    Exactly the point. The change that Obama promised has occurred. You can look at a wide variety of metrics and they all tell the same story. The nation is significantly better off now that we were when Obama took office. There will always be more to do, and we as a nation will stumble. We will struggle with some things and sooner or later we will experience another recession or another 9/11 that nobody can predict – but if we are judging President Obama on his record we have to admit his record has been pretty impressive.

    Most of the right don’t want to admit what Obama’s legacy will show, thus they deflect to things like how he is trying to take away our guns or expressing outrage that he didn’t attend Nancy Reagan’s funeral. When it comes to the real issues – they lose the debate every. single. time.

  44. jerry 2016-03-15

    Les gets to write the whole premium off at 100% as self employed. Les also got 9 years older as well. Wellmark does not care if you get older, I am sure of that as they are such sticklers on those kinds of things. Les also had to pay for things like Colonoscopies and other wellness exams that he now can get done for free. As a successful businessman, he now does not have to worry that all of those claims he had for years were accumulating against his target number and that once he may hit that number, les is no more. Now he can get sick as chance may put him and he does not have to worry about the run out. Oh, and if Les does not want to stay with Wellmark, he can jump ship with no worries about pre existing conditions or waiting periods. So Les, ya big lug, ya got it made in the shade. Good work there Craig, liked it a lot.

  45. Les 2016-03-15

    My statement was and is, today my annual insurance premium is over 12000 with a 7500 deduct compared to 4500+/- with a 5000 deduct, Craig. If I went for a lower deduct of 5000 now, which I had, it would cost me in the 16000 range annually. Roughly four times my initial premium.

    I will not argue the rest with you craig as its conspiracy theory that I bring from the Internet and truth you bring.

    You appear as an unemployed hipster living with your parents, disatisfied with your life and blaming everyone in sight for your problems, Craig. Learn reading comprehension.

    You bring not only a bias but misinformation, Darin Larson. You willingly put teachers income along with self employed who invest millions besides their education and you feel teachers should be judged with them. My statement was, teachers are in the top 5-10% of the population pay wise. I didn’t say household. I didn’t say including business. We in biz pay our own benefit package out of those wages you see on the charts. Population. You know, the folks working for 20-40k household with three kids who are now paying for your raise. South Dakota is a rural state. Population. All the good folks employed in SD working poverty wages making your raise work. My mom a teacher for life had empathy for her students and would never have rooted for a raise off their backs.

    This site had a wonderful person by the name of Joseph Thompson amongst many others who’ve left. When he said he was leaving from the personal attacks instead of the ideological banter, I thought, nah, he’ll be back. It’s been several years and he is not back. I now understand why. Butt hurt? Nah. Yes I’m disappointed that folks coming here hoping to help make a positive change in SD are driven away by personal attack from the likes of many of those who remain. Yes, I will continue to work to improve our state as I have for most of my life. Yes, leslie and Lar, I’d have a coffee or a good bourbon with you some sunny afternoon.

    Throw a few bucks at Cory. It’s a long way to the 2017 legis and all the free food.

    You just can’t stand in the middle of a shit spit without getting some on you. After a while those who truly matter in your life can’t tolerate the smell.

    Good luck in Pierre, Cory.

  46. Jenny 2016-03-15

    Vote for Bernie and he will fight to expand Medicare for all. No more allowing skyrocketing insurance premiums. Enough is enough.

  47. Craig 2016-03-15

    Les: “You appear as an unemployed hipster living with your parents, disatisfied [sic]with your life and blaming everyone in sight for your problems, Craig. Learn reading comprehension.”

    Nice try Les… but in your attempt to insult me, you merely display what you think of anyone who doesn’t agree with you. Sadly, your description of me isn’t remotely accurate in any way.

    What’s next Les – are you going to call me a “meanie head” and threaten to call my Mom?

    Although I do find the irony in your comments so at least we have that.

  48. happy camper 2016-03-15

    To say Obamacare has been successful in South Dakota is simply untrue. If it can be blamed on the medicare gap whatever it still failed to deliver as promised. To say Les should consider it a success because you assume he can afford $12,000 a year is being incredibly unfair. One point of Obamacare was to create options for people, hopefully allowing them to retire early or quit a job and start a small business. High premiums put that out of reach, and while I used to think one payer was the best answer while holding up Britain as an example that can’t be said any longer. They’ve had terrible physician strikes with people’s critical surgeries pushed aside, doctor burnout, etc. We can’t rely on a one delivery system. Obamacare could still be successful with bipartisan support.

    Obama hasn’t done a bad job, probably a good job considering the Republican blockage. He’s a moderate MODERATE! but lacked experience and wasn’t a strong leader of people who desire that though he appeals to me. Trump is saying he is going to get more Democratic votes than Reagan though the Evangelicals are bolting. Gonna be a bumpy ride fascinating though downright scary.

  49. mike from iowa 2016-03-15

    And the wingnut alternative-watching people die needlessly, has been a rousing success,Happy.

  50. Craig 2016-03-15

    hc the simple truth is the Affordable Care Act has done a lot of good things for the consumer. It has allowed millions to obtain health insurance. It has eliminated pre-existing conditions from preventing people from getting the coverage they need. It has ensured more money goes to actual patient care than to dividends to shareholders. It has resulted in at least 29 states expanding Medicaid. Billions in dollars of uncompensated costs saved by hospitals. Fewer Americans claiming they can’t afford medical care, and fewer Americans claiming they were having difficulties paying medical bills. Fewer medically related bankruptcies. The price of healthcare has increased at the slowest pace in the last 50 years as verified by independent analysis.

    We could go on all day, but clearly the ACA has done some good. But it isn’t perfect, and it isn’t the final solution. We know it won’t help everyone. It won’t have an overwhelming positive impact in every city or every state. But overall – it is a net good for the nation.

    So if we take Les at his word and actually believe that his rates have skyrocketed, does that mean the ACA has failed? No… Les might see some negative impacts to his health insurance premiums, but we need to know a lot more data before we can place that blame on the ACA. For all we know, without the ACA Les may have seen his rate go up even more.

    The thing is, Les is using numbers from 2007 and comparing them to numbers in 2016 and trying to blame the increases soley on the ACA. First, clearly the ACA doesn’t bear any blame for the increases in premiums during the years before it was even law. Second, there are many factors that go into rate increases which means we would need to determine root causes. Third, we would need to know more specifics behind those numbers, who is covered, what type of insurance plan it is, what other factors may have changed over that time period etc.

    However even with all of that said – it doesn’t really matter. We don’t base the success of the ACA on one person’s experience or a small number of people. We measure true impact upon the nation as a whole. It has nothing to do with who can afford to pay healthcare premiums or whether it is fair. It has to do with what benefits the nation rather than what benefits us individually.

    Until we find a way to have a true single payer system (and I’m still of the belief that universal healthcare / universal Medicare would be far superior to what we currently have) then legislation like the ACA will have to do. It can continue to be improved and nobody should run around claiming it is perfect – but it certainly appears to be offering a benefit above and beyond what we had before its implementation.

  51. mike from iowa 2016-03-15

    Bree S.
    2013.11.22 AT 22:05
    Joseph is a Democrat, Roger. Nice of you to tell him to go to the DWC.

    Roger Cornelius
    2013.11.22 AT 22:29
    Bree,

    I don’t who is Democrat or Republican, other than you.

    My response to Joseph was based on his comments not his political affiliation.

    Bree S.
    2013.11.22 AT 22:44
    Right, he doesn’t completely agree with you on all topics, so he better leave the Madville Times, for your comfort

    J Thompson must have been pretty thin-skinned.

  52. Bill Dithmer 2016-03-15

    If you think the protesters are something at Trump rallies, just think of what the GOP convention will look like. It wont be those outside throwing punches either, it will be an all republican no holds barred, free for all.

    The wake for some in the party will start right after the convention, for others it will be another two years.

    There would be nothing to compare this to. Well maybe someone chocking themselves to death with their own hands.

    The Blindman

  53. happy camper 2016-03-15

    “We measure true impact upon the nation as a whole. It has nothing to do with who can afford to pay healthcare premiums or whether it is fair. It has to do with what benefits the nation rather than what benefits us individually.”

    Wow, you don’t really believe stuff like that, do you? You sound like The Borg. The Collective. Communist Russia no thanks. My own premiums went through the roof and I’m very much concerned which continues to tell me we have to worry about our own arse cause liberals could care less as long as something fits their ideology.

    My agent told me the deadbeats in poor health who had not had coverage enrolled in affordable coverage in significant numbers through the exchange, got services, then dropped it so South Dakota policy premiums had to go way, way up. If a person has a utility termination notice they don’t even have to pay the penalty.

    Your kind of talk is the reason people move away from liberalism and I got news for ya the individual does matter and that’s why we want to look out for ourselves cause you could care less and want to force us in to something as stated above. I want options, and I don’t want people making my decisions for me.

    The Borg has landed….

  54. leslie 2016-03-15

    happy: To say Obamacare has been successful in South Dakota is simply untrue.”

    “The ones who never attend a single meeting are usually the ones screaming the loudest [about quietly arming individual sentinels in public schools].”

    “My agent told me the deadbeats in poor health who had not had coverage enrolled in affordable coverage in significant numbers through the exchange, got services, then dropped it so South Dakota policy premiums had to go way, way up.” (my cashier at macdonalds told me prices went up because of minimum wage)

    “we have to worry about our own arse cause liberals could care less as long as something [ACA] fits their ideology [that every person deserves appropriate medical care, in this case].”

    all 5 are bullsheit

    les: “self employed who invest millions besides their education and you feel teachers should be judged with them….We in biz pay our own benefit package out of those wages you see on the charts.”

    mc: the candidate says “We trust our children to these teachers, we should be able to trust with a firearm.”

    A 12-year-old girl was accidentally shot through the stomach during a Sunday gathering of the Three Percent of Idaho at a local gun range. Allegra Kirkland Published February 24, 2016

    and:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/13/the-macabre-truth-of-gun-control-in-the-us-is-that-toddlers-kill-more-people-than-terrorists-do

    “If the mere presence of guns [in public schools] offends you, then by all means take kids out and enroll them else where.”

    bullsheit

    see… 12-year-old girl was accidentally shot through the stomach during a Sunday gathering of the Three Percent of Idaho at a local gun range. Allegra Kirkland Published February 24, 2016

    and:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/13/the-macabre-truth-of-gun-control-in-the-us-is-that-toddlers-kill-more-people-than-terrorists-do

    so there you have it. just one typical day of pure bull sheit from happy, mc, les and faux news/rush limbaugh.

  55. happy camper 2016-03-15

    Trump is killin Florida 46% Rubio 27%. Repeat after me: President Trump. President Trump. And I got news for you Democrats help create this too. When they took the House and Senate they said the Republican Party was dead for the next 20 years. They lost (was it the Senate) the next election cycle cause they got smug and immediately out of touch with the moderate voters that put them there. The power is in the middle.

  56. happy camper 2016-03-15

    Leslie if you create policy that is lacking in personal accountability it is doomed to fail. Too many loopholes in the ACA. The analogy to car insurance is a good one. For political reasons the Republicans have not cooperated to improve the law but the Democrats should have expected that and forced the Medigap money on the states, etc. Both parties have acted stupidly raise your hand for President Trump you helped create him. Compromise is not a dirty word but necessary one.

  57. mike from iowa 2016-03-15

    Leslie if you create policy that is lacking in personal accountability

    Happy,you just described wingnuts for the past almost 40 years. The only person held accountable since Ronnie Raygun was the cluster done to William Jefferson Clinton. And the almost daily garbage about impeaching Obama.

  58. leslie 2016-03-16

    16 states now have new voting restrictions for 1st time in a pres election in 2016 http://trib.al/YXxRIAA

  59. Craig 2016-03-16

    hc: “Wow, you don’t really believe stuff like that, do you? You sound like The Borg.”

    So caring about society and wanting to improve conditions for others rather than just thinking about myself is somehow a trait that you believe is only shared by mindless drones or communists? I find that very telling.

    You can name call all you wish, but I know there are a lot of people who aren’t as fortunate as myself and I’m not against helping them. There are many people who have medical conditions through no fault of their own. A lot of good people who lost jobs or faced adversity. Many who were born a different color or in a different nation or in different circumstances which puts them at a disadvantage, and even more who might share a lot of characteristics with me but who found themselves in a bad situation that they had no power to prevent. So yes – I do care about these types of people. I do want to help them, and if that means I pay a few extra dollars in my insurance premiums or a few extra dollars in taxes I guess I see that as a fair trade.

    The simple truth is I’m just not nearly as selfish as your ideal apparently. If that means I’m a liberal in your eyes then I openly accept that label. However there is some benefit to me as well. There are indirect benefits where a healthier society is a more productive society. There are the benefits of knowing a healthy parent can take care of their children and they might live long enough to see them prosper. There is also the benefit of knowing if anything should ever happen to me – I’m going to be ok. Call it a safety net or what have you, but it exists. I hope I never need it, and I hope you never need it but we can’t predict the future. I’ve known people who were diagnosed with cancer and who had to stop working. Not all employers are going to continue to cover medical insurance and if they didn’t have insurance to begin with what would happen to them? I don’t ever want that to happen to me, so I’m ok with supporting a system that is designed to help us all.

    “My agent told me[…]”

    Yes, because your agent is a great indicator of reality right? Perhaps he tells you whatever he thinks will convince you that his rate increases are justified, or maybe he is just repeating what he was told by someone else who failed to do their research. How about instead of believing him you try to do some of your own research for a change. I know – it would require effort, and I understand it isn’t as easy as simply taking someone’s word for it, but the added benefit is that you might actually learn something.

    That aside, who do you think was paying for those “deadbeats in poor health” as you so eloquently put it? Do you think when they got injured or were dealing with serious health issues that they just stayed home and didn’t bother seeking treatment? No – they went to the ER or to Urgent Care. If they couldn’t pay the bill, the hospital or clinic was forced to cost-shift over to others who could pay for those services, so anyone with insurance or anyone who paid cash was paying more than they should have.

    Meanwhile we know it is far, far cheaper to pay for preventative medicine than it is to treat someone who comes into the ER after months of illness. These are facts that are not in dispute, which is why insurance coverage for 20MM more Americans has resulted in Billions and Billions in cost savings to hospitals. This is also why Medicare expenditures have dropped by hundreds of millions of dollars, because preventative medicine is cheaper than late stage treatments.

    We were all paying for these “deadbeats in poor health” before the ACA. The difference is that we were treating them at later stages where it was much more expensive. This is the same reason why insurance companies are willing to subsidize gym memberships or pay for nutrition counseling, weight loss management programs, stop smoking programs, diabetes management programs etc. Because they know treating these conditions early saves exponentially more on the back side. Or did you think they offered these things just out of the goodness of their corporate hearts?

    But hey – critical thinking isn’t necessary…. it is far easier to just take your agent’s word for it.

  60. Darin Larson 2016-03-16

    Happy Camper, I am in general agreement with Craig here. I also ask how were things going for health care in this country before the ACA? I recall huge increases in premiums every year with more and more people without any medical insurance. And if you had a pre-existing condition or lost your job you were screwed.

    The ACA isn’t perfect, but the Republicans have fought every effort to make it better. Their (self) interest is to see this law fail and they are doing everything in their power to make it so. Blaming the Democrats for the failings of a law that the Republicans refuse to let be improved is asinine.

  61. happy camper 2016-03-16

    I’ll say again the ACA is not a bad law but the loopholes have to be closed. There are many positives to everyone being insured (with everyone paying a few extra dollars acceptable though the law was touted as paying for itself), but the greater burden is being absorbed by the individual policies in our state. The information is not out there in print but the agent said she knew. Jerry also said our state not taking the Medigap money encouraged people to enroll in the individual policies (just his assumption I don’t know). My rate increases were monumental last year now $5,500 a year for one person 52 years old from $3,600 the year before (that’s over 50% in one year). I’m grandfathered or the new ACA policy was even higher. BCBS didn’t put their policies on the exchange again this year I think so the cheaper polices at the two remaining companies would bite the bullet. The ACA promise was cost containment didn’t work! If there is no pre-x and so on yes a great thing but everybody has to contribute (not a small pool) and yes there are deadbeats that scam the system. It’s easy to have beautiful, lofty thoughts with other people’s money. Wonderful wonderful when in fact it’s not working in the state of South Dakota but Craig doesn’t care cause he only cares about the nation not the individual (other than in sweeping beautiful generalities). The greater good? No thanks I quit drinkin the Libbie Kool-Aid. Stayed in the veins for a while but it will work it’s way out eventually.

  62. Kris 2016-03-16

    dude trumps a chump and a hater! haters gonna hate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  63. Craig 2016-03-16

    hc: “Wonderful wonderful when in fact it’s not working in the state of South Dakota but Craig doesn’t care cause he only cares about the nation not the individual (other than in sweeping beautiful generalities). ”

    You speak of sweeping generalities yet you claim the ACA isn’t working in South Dakota. I know of a few people who would disagree with you. So should I just take your word for it? Should I trust the word of your insurance agent who just “said she knew” when you admit the information isn’t available in print.

    Hard to take you seriously when you overtly state you don’t care about the greater good and you use such strong factual evidence to support your case (sarcasm on the second part in case you can’t tell).

  64. happy camper 2016-03-16

    Craig I gave you real numbers on my own policy and checked with New Mexico this morning. A comparable policy (actually better) would be about $3,600 but as Tsitrian points out about half of their residents are on Medicaid. That’s a shocking number. So with our having not taken the money to expand Medicaid many of those people logically took advantage of the individual plans on the exchange. More than guessing I did call my company this morning (not the agent) who didn’t disagree the ACA plans needed huge increases not as large as my grandfathered plan though we had to kick in to support it. Group plans are rated separately. Yes, other parts of the ACA have benefited people like Lanny S: The thing that gets lost in this discussion is the savings to be reaped by those who are insured. My Medicare Supplement has several different options. The one that I have, the premium per month went down from 79 to 74. The copay for primary went from 10 to 0 and for specialists went from 20 to 10. My out of pocket for major care outside the US while traveling went from 2500 to 0.

    Great for Lanny, and fine for all if every bucket in America had to carry a little more water, but the individual plans in this state can’t carry all that risk. It’s unsustainable for them to support the Medigap. Tsitrian has some links to problems in New Mexico because they’ve had unexpected rapid increases in Medicaid and a link to data about our state. Yeah, I’m fussing because I feel the pain but I think it’s justified considering the numbers. One small pool can’t do it.

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