Hey, Larry! Your wish for Democrats to embrace a pro-pot strategy may be inching toward fruition. Mark Winegar is hosting a D-Days Democratic Pig Roast in Vermillion on Friday, October 2. The event lists the following speakers:
- Paula Hawks – U.S. House of Representatives Candidate
- Ann Tornberg – Redistricting South Dakota
- Melissa Mentele – Medical Marijuana
- Doug Kronaizl – Respect the Vote SD
- Ray Ring – State Representative (District 17)
- Jonathan C. Hunt, VP Monarch America
That’s the only announced South Dakota Democratic candidate for Congress and the chair of the South Dakota Democratic Party appearing on the same stage as the leader of the medical marijuana petition drive and the VP of the Colorado company bringing pot to the Flandreau Santee Sioux bowling alley.
This convergence of speakers does not establish that the SDDP is buying into cannabis activism. The SDDP appears to be buying into petition synergy with Farmers Union’s call for independent redistricting to end gerrymandering: consider that Winegar lists Chairwoman Tornberg as speaking for the Farmers Union ballot committee rather than for the state party. I would urge the party to go for synergy with Kronaizl’s petition, too, since his proposal would strengthen the initiative and referendum, which would be good for democracy and for the party that stands for democracy (that’s us, Democrats!).
But will Ann Tornberg lay her hands on Melissa Mentele’s shoulders and say, “We like this petition, too! Democrats! Sign for medical marijuana!”?
I don’t think she should. I have yet to see any reliable data that lifting a finger in favor of medical cannabis or any other use of marijuana does anything to help Democrats win elections (and winning elections is the only reason for a party machine to take an action, right?). Nate Silver supports by skepticism of Larry’s claims that pot helps us win elections.
But suppose Melissa Mentele’s vigorous social media outreach brings a huge crowd of signers to the pig roast. Suppose she shows Chairwoman Tornberg an extensive network of circulators who’ve already gathered all the signatures they need for their petition. Suppose Mentele can show that her volunteers and signers are ready, willing, and able to not just show up and vote “D” but work to get others to vote “D”.
Show me that Melissa Mentele can deliver real political goods, and maybe we Democrats can talk about going for a little walk with the supporters of medical marijuana.
But whether Democrats should clasp hands with pot pusher Monarch America on any public stage… well, that’s a much farther walk for me. Chairwoman Tornberg, Candidate Hawks, find out ahead of time where Jonathan Hunt is sitting, and make sure you pick seats well outside his camera frame.
Mr. Heidelberger … You say, “that’s a much farther walk for me”.
I say, it’s always important to know where someone sits before you analyze where they stand. You have a specific bias towards any movement on pot in that if you are even indifferent let alone supportive you’ll never have another teaching job in Sodak and surely not become an elected official. That’s a couple “grains of salt” for the voters to swallow.
Dang! I wasn’t even thinking about the job angle. I’ve declared neutrality: I won’t stand in the way of petitioners campaigning on the issue, but I’m not inclined to lend them material support. I recommend the same position for the party. Does that toast my job prospects?
Ms. Hawks and Mr. Ring are strong for the weed.
Mr. Lansing brings a good point. How does or does not any Mr. H plan to become a teacher again or run for that pretty brunette woman’s seat in congress play into how you muzzle my good friend Bob or Mr. Kurtz on this whacky weed business?
96,
Sorry but there is one thing I won’t go for and I know I’m not alone. But hey if the SDDP is at rock bottom and wants to roll the dice on it will be fun watching. Oh Boy! There will be some people that won’t be happy about this! lol I admit I saw it coming though and expected this. Hoped it wouldn’t but sure enough it’s going that way.
It doesn’t matter where Cory stands on cannabis law. This is most likely the most-read blog in SoDak. As a forum for discussion on cannabis matters in SoDak, DakFreePress is unequalled, as far as I can tell. Anybody here think WarCollege would allow a discussion like this one?
DFP poses a question: Is it a good idea for the SoDak Democrats to endorse a bill that won’t hurt anything but might help a few dozen people stay alive 30 or 40 more years?
In one sense it doesn’t matter, either, as long as the Democratic Party promotes discussion on important matters. On the other hand, there might be a few top Dems who, by virtue of becoming top Dems, have acquired certain physical attributes including, but not limited to, a spine and a conscience.
DFP is as aware as I am of the dearth of money to support any serious Democatic lunge at office. In such situations, it might be a good idea to try doing the right thing, which in this case is to accept and promote the science, along with what your own eyes and ears tell you. You’ll feel better about yourselves, and more people might accept your rhetoric.
Do the right thing, Bob? That’s citizen talk. That’s blogger talk. I’m trying to think like a party exec, who has one amoral mission: elect Democrats. Does endorsing the medical cannabis bill help elect Democrats?
Money is nice, but it’s not everything. Serious Democratic lungers can use voters and volunteers, people who will round up friends, take ’em to the polls, and say, “Mark the Ds.” Send money if you’ve got it, but tell me (and the party chair) this: how many voters will change their position based on what Dems say about medical cannabis?
And Bob, I’ll host the discussion, but that doesn’t mean I like it. :-P
The discussion I’d really like to see is what happens when Jonathan Hunt walks up to introduce himself to Ann Tornberg.
A bit of history on weed …. no political party endorsed or commented on any marijuana initiatives or amendments in Colorado. It’s a truly non-partisan personal issue. Slightly more registered Republicans voted for it than Dem’s or Unaffiliateds. Mason Tvert is 99% responsible for legal pot. He got it on the ballot probably six times with a bit of positive growth each time until people got sick of hearing the drone of the naysayers, whose opinions became passe. Legal pot passed with over 60% approval although by last poll only 17% are recreational dabblers. Research showed the biggest mover on the issue was a desire to take control of marijuana from the hands of drug cartels and allow CO to set it’s own paradigm ….. which we’re doing very very well, thank you. :)
Is this a tsunami, a wave or just a plop in the chemical toilet that gets your butt wet?
The positive to this is now we know where things stand and can move forward accordingly. I read this announcement from Clay County Dems earlier today before Cory posted it, made a few phone calls and will now call and email more friends and family members to let them know.
Wow! It’s official! I have always self identified and voted as a Democrat but this will push me to a solid Independent and more moderate Republican leaning. Never thought this day would come but it has and will do what I can to help defeat those candidates and party that supports such a huge and far reaching public policy mistake.
This will be just like gambling. Once it gets approved it will be very difficult to repeal 1st there will be humor just like what happened in Colorado and California where this was sold to help those in chronic pain many of which ailments come with those who are elderly but it will be the “Bring your friends coupon” and most of the patients end up being 18-early 20’s discovering they regretfully voted for a softened recreational marijuana initiative.
As shown by the petitioner at Mitchell’s skateboard park I’m still am amazed that skateboarders seem to be a group that really needs medical marijuana when many of my friends who wrestled in HS and college and participated in other sports working thru all kinds of injuries and intensive training never had a need for medical marijuana.
Thank you for the coverage but let’s be clear. I, and I alone, selected speakers for the evening. My objective was to facilitate the exchange of information on current political issues. It is a mistake to assume any of the speakers necessarily has any connection to another except for an indirect one through me. It is a grave error to assume or suggest otherwise. Our only objective for the evening is to raise awareness and funds for the Clay County Democratic Party.
Don’t let the door hit you in the tinfoil hat, Lynn.
After you accept your failure here, Lynn, maybe go over and genuflect to the
altar</strike alter over at Pat's house of goo.Larry,
Believe me it won’t be my failure! I’ll be fired up to use my skills to defeat this knucklehead decision. :)
Cory,
Can you imagine me sitting next to Jim Bolin at a phone bank making calls leading up to the election? lol At least they have programs being a Republican version of Base Connect I can use from anywhere and make campaign and fundraising calls. :)
don’t forget to use your walker, hun.
lol if you only knew.
Lynn brings up a good point. Democrats brought money for historic preservation in Deadwood and beyond but it took SDGOP to turn it into prostitution. The billboards along I-90 hinting loose women are so offensive it makes me yearn to sue somebody.
Nanny state, indeed.
Lynn: if you were paying attention you would see that the kurtz therapeutic cannabis and hemp positions are very restrictive and that the revenue generated under a compact with tribes could severely curtail the illegal drug trade in my home state.
At what cost, Lynn? Remember, we have not yet established that the SDDP is actively supporting any marijuan-related policy. Whether Dems maintain neutrality, invite the discussion, or voice support for medical cannabis, will you work to defeat Democrats who could beat Jim Bolin and Roger Hunt and end their campaign against transgender students? Will you tell people to vote for Kristi Noem and her self-interest instead of Paula Hawks? Will you support Tehran John Thune over a sincere Democratic challenger? Is a Republican do-nothing, science denier, abortion banner, and theocrat better than a Democrat who sounds the right notes on everything else but also shakes hands with Melissa Mentele and Jonathan Hunt (and we haven’t mentioned Ryan Gaddy—is he going to join the D-Days program?))
The challenge Colorado is facing is that therapeutic cannabis generates a fraction of what over the counter trade produces. Those loopholes need to be banged out in committee not by citizens creating blunt force trauma with initiated law.
Let me repeat: my template could be enacted next session long before an initiated measure gets printed on a ballot.
Thank You Cory! As most reasonable people know the invite to speak is not an endorsement of our cause it is simply a platform to allow discussion. I personally think this is a great opportunity to bring more reasonable factual information to our party and allow for open discussion. I do believe we will pull from the student population at USD and I personally will be inviting the Nursing Program out to engage in this discussion along with extending the invite to my various MD friends & Professors at USD.
I think you will all be amazed at the professionalism and transparency of Monarch America and Mr. Hunt. We are very lucky to have him take time out of his busy schedule to attend this event and speak. I do hope that not only my party but also the people of SD extend some of our hometown hospitality to him at this event. Their business has the potential to create jobs and revenue for not only FSST but also the people of SD.
Lynn anytime you feel you can brave a coffee meeting with me I am open. I have gotten to the point with you continuously being brash and confrontational on social media that I think we should meet and have a big girl discussion. I am game anytime you are. If you attend this event please let me know I will bedazzle you a brand new tin foil hat. I might even invite some of the MN patients and families that advocated for the law you support so vehemently so they can tell you why it isn’t working. Not many are willing to gamble with the lives of their children and MN program allows that by not making strain specific oils with clean genetics. Frankenstein oil is what it is know as nationwide because they have mixed several strains together and are not seeing the results they had hoped for. Do your research before you start posting.
Melissa
South Dakota could stop the meth trade by handing out free Adderall but the law enforcement industry would lose its lobbying power stifling Marty’s campaign bid yelling soft on crime.
Thank YOU, Melissa for putting so much energy and personal time into helping others. Boo-Rah
Lynn, sorry to pile on questions, but consider what Melissa is saying. Suppose the invitation to speak is just that, Clay County Dems saying, “O.K., we’ll hear you out.” Suppose the Clay County Dems’ and SDDP’s involvement in the issue go no further than that. Do they trigger your critique just by opening the door for conversation and giving the message you deem unacceptable a chance to be heard?
Cory, even the AP Stylebook counsels against calling cannabis pot in print. Your evolution as you cover this developing story, even this entire issue is pretty much glaciatic.
Oh! And there’s Mark Winegar himself, commenting above at 20:00, retrieved from my moderation queue! Sorry about the wait, Mark!
Mark makes clear that we err gravely if we assume mutual presence on this program means mutual endorsement. I would suggest that Mark’s open-door, hear-’em-out policy is one expression of the listening to the people that we Democrats need to show that we will do and that Republicans won’t. We Dems will support the initiative and referendum process, even when that means taking a chance that it may produce policies that we aren’t particularly excited about. Chairwoman Tornberg doesn’t owe any of the petitioners assembling at Mark’s pig roast an endorsement, but we Dems should be such passionate and consistent defenders of the initiative and referendum that petitioners want to come up and shake Tornberg’s hand and say, “Thank you for keeping this door open for activists like us… what can we do to help you in return?”
Holy cow, Larry! There’s my answer! Larry keeps telling me that we Dems need to campaign for medical cannabis and legalization to win voters. But I would argue that we do something better by fighting for initiative and referendum: we fight for the process that empowers all of those activist groups to wage their own campaigns. We don’t have to agree with your policies, but we will fight like heck for your right to present those policies to the voters and take your chances with popular democracy.
Lynn, will that position keep you from campaigning for Jim Bolin (whom I’ve met, who is an intelligent dude and a fellow educator, but dang it, I want to replace him with a Democrat!)?
Lynn has legitimate concerns about the future of South Dakota: piling on is not going to gloss over the hard choices a legislature with guns to its head has to make.
Cooler heads have been prevailing for over forty years.
Virabhadrasana
Cory,
I have been following facebook pages for Clay County Democrats and other Democrats for some time now. Clay County Dems have been circulating petitions for Melissa and believe Decrim but not sure on that. There have been things going on that I didn’t mention but have seen it coming. Hunhoff had the Decrim petition on his page. Come on! Look at who is there in the announcement. Otherwise there would be risk by association of totally turning off potential donors and voters.
At least with the God Squad I can see them coming. This is a joke of a medical marijuana initiative. If it was the same as Minnesota’s I’d have no problem with it.
This will have far more long term and wide ranging impact than the God Squad and their fake bills or laws, EB-5, and anything else. That’s all temporary in comparison. You open that door and there will be consequences and it will be hard as hell to repeal it just like video lottery here in SD.
Own or manage a business?
rental properties?
Ever live in other parts of the US especially in high density urban areas?
How about the rust belt or an economically depressed area?
How about a segment of the population that deals with intense discrimination, poverty and limited opportunities? Grow up in the cycle of addiction?
You get to see the impact of what is sold as being so innocent or harmless turn into a costly, painful and life consuming addiction. Employees not showing up to work or if they do they are drunk or stoned.
Rents not paid on time and they skip out and trash the apartment or leave it a pit requiring a costly cleanup and remodeling.
Heck my next door neighbor in an apartment building who was addicted to weed and then moved up to cocaine totaled his apartment in a fire. Still can’t believe my apartment escaped damage while living in Uptown Minneapolis.
Reefer Madness? Never seen it, no interest and could care less. It’s called the School of Hard Knocks!
When some news outfit pays me to write for their paper, they can squeeze me into whatever stylebook they want. Until then, I will not be deprived of a nice Anglo-Saxon monosyllable and stylistic fun.
Besides, Monarch America refers to recreational pot and medical pot. Who’s the glaciatic evoluter now? Humperdink, Humperdink, pot pot pot!
Does AP ban “weed”, too?
Even better Lynn you live in Uptown? Well I am from MN and I need to take a trip up to see family….I will come to you for that coffee.
There are times I have questioned if some Dems talking policy have ever been out in the real world to see how things work. It’s like some stereotypical liberal fantasy bubble.
Like I have shared before on this blog. I have had great conversations with friends who have a past in voting some of which identified as Democrat, Independent and Republican and would vote for change here in SD. We go thru various checklists of what we like in policies and candidates and as soon as I get to the fake medical marijuana, Decrim/legalization they were the first ones shocked and could not believe candidates would support it knowing the social and especially if they owned rental properties and businesses with employees the pain in the rear end it is and it will just get worse in dealing with people that are not responsible and costs the rest of us.
This single issue overshadows the gains that would of been made in the candidates and other policies we all agree on. We all are shocked ,get really frustrated and angry that they could be so dumb or misguided to support this.
Since the SDDP chooses to go this route than so be it. Other options will be to work within the Republican Party as other have that left the SDDP, adapt and move forward in life.
Pot worse than EB-5 and the God Squad? Dopers worse than corporate colonizers and theocrats? That’s going to be a hard jump for me to make, Lynn. Part of my problem with some pot activists is that they prioritize marijuana policy and don’t pay enough attention to bigger issues like crony capitalism and the abusive mingling of church and state. Here we are risking making the same mistake.
So Lynn, can we not prove our cred as Democrats by supporting democracy through petitions? Can you not focus your fire on defeating what pot measures make the ballot instead of going to war with any person or organization who doesn’t beat the same war drum? Again, is this one issue really worth re-electing Bolin, Noem, and Thune?
Melissa I lived in Uptown in the 80s before it became so gentrified and expensive now. Rudolphs BBQ? I lived close by. I’d call home to SD and my friends asked if I’d turn down the TV with all the sirens and noise but it was that I had my windows open. lol
Cory,
I have seen this coming. Look! The pro-pot advocates can throw all the BS they want to about it being not addictive and that we have nothing to worry about. I ignore them and it’s entertaining at times but I’ve seen first hand over and over people being dependent on it to the point they can’t do their jobs or practically function in life. Their tolerance goes up and they need a stronger strain or they move up to another drug to get high and numb whatever deep pain they have or to escape.
We are going to see an increase in addiction here in SD especially showing up in our youth which are the most vulnerable chemically to lifelong addiction issues. We already have issues here in SD with gambling addiction, payday loan joints, title loans, low wages, severe teacher shortage, CAFOS, immigration suppressing wages while increasing profits. Then we legalize another addictive substance to escape and numb the hopelessness of being stuck in crappy jobs with limited opportunities?
The weed people are vocal but minor. I find they are usually less coherent than Mr. kurtz or my friend Bob on a good day, and that is saying something. Have you have had a conversation with a person who’s mind was bent with weed smoke?
Weed is bad. It is bad. And if Mr. Winegar put his legitimate Democrat Party candidates up on the stage next to some purveyors of weed that is something the rest of us can’t help any of them with.
Did you know that young Ms. Wismer, who took the biggest butt-whuppin in state history, was uncomfortable being associated with weed smoke?
Was Annie’s Uptown Cafe there then? Best fries in the Cities.
Cory,
It is worth re-electing Noem, Thune and Bolin in a trade off to preventing this huge public policy mistake from happening and by knowing me personally you realize how I’m affected. It’s that important!
You and I have visited extensively about focusing on real issues that South Dakota faces and going forward with a game plan. I hate and despise that my time and energy is going to be devoted towards defeating all those that are associated with this rather than deal with other issues I actually enjoy getting into but it’s unfortunately going to be this way.
Pam Sherman Bakery was there had the best Tomato Basil soup I’d dip sliced cracked wheat herb demi baguette smothered with butter into the soup on cold winter days. It was inexpensive and good for the soul.
“Part of my problem with some pot activists is that they prioritize marijuana policy and don’t pay enough attention to bigger issues like crony capitalism and the abusive mingling of church and state. Here we are risking making the same mistake. ”
Cory that’s all they think about is making sure they can get their “fix” without getting in trouble with the law or dealing with other consequences justifying their use. Ever been around addicts? Makes them feel better if your partaking along with them. Then they try to make bargains well if you accept my addiction I’ll accept your whatever.
You should dig a little deeper into Washington State midterm voter participation in the 18-20 something voter turnout after weed was legalized. Turnout was evidently shockingly low and an unexpected political shift occurred that was not predicted in that state.
I’ve never seen a group so fixated with getting high and constantly talking about it even in states where it’s been legal. The Beer brewing community? Nope!
After these people get weed legalized might as well count a good many of them out. They might be after legalizing other drugs or having taxpayers pay for their weed next.
Ms. Lynn,
Marijuana is not addictive and has no physical withdrawal symptoms, period. In fact, I’ll maintain that you are more addicted to this blog than any pot smoker has ever been. Just try to not to post on or read DFP for a month and you’ll see how messed up on self consumption you really are. You’d have more anxiety than you could process. A little dab’ll do ‘ya, ma’am.
Ms. Lynn, I think you are hitting much of the pooch on the nose there. It is just about personal getting high. That’s why it is really more of a Libertarian issue. And the people with real social change on their minds and not just personal “how does it affect me” thoughts get all bent out of whack because it doesn’t jive with the Conservatives or the Democrat party, it is really about the Weed Party. My friends Bob and Lar, they are really Libertarians, although one is far more conservative than the other. What really defines them is the weed.
So in colo they call it pot still and neither party had the Spine to endorse.
Grudz,
Some people eventually grow up and be responsible and some just don’t. Oh well! There are jobs for them too. They may work in an industry with high turnover and not real mentally challenging but they can deliver pizza’s, fry burgers but you may want to double check your order before leaving or eating for mistakes. I’m sure those new CAFOs would sure be happy to have them.
Lynn: How much prison time do you think is about right for someone convicted of ingesting a harmful substance?
-It’s called pot daily in the Denver Post and by every news anchor on TV.
-Why would a political party endorse or denounce a citizens initiative? It would be admitting that party’s distance from the will of the people.
NIDA DIRECTOR VOLKOW says 9% are addicted to marijuana, and 17% of young starters are addicted (1 in 6). Of 7% OF DAILY senior high users, many are already addicted and sub-performing all of the time. 2.2013 “challenging marijuana myths”.
i am a liberal democrat. please take your addiction arguments up with NIDA or cite contrary studies, not anecdotes. personal attacks on scientists are considered bad form, as in FOX, Kochs, grudz and Limbaugh. i am only interested in electing good hearted democrats in a time of phenomenal world turbulence.
leslie,
Their claims not being addictive is an old and tired argument and anyone that has been around knows it’s addictive. Why do the same people come in to work or get high at work every day and it happens time and time again. Smart talented people with so much potential drop off and it’s all they are consumed with is getting high getting numb or tuning out. I hate even because they think you just so gullible. Chronically dependent a better term? https://www.marijuana-anonymous.org/
interestingly, alcohol addiction is about 10% too, as i recall. though all is not in, the addiction process on the plastic brain is all the more appearing to be the same, regardless of the addictive agent. it takes on average, 25 years to wrestle one’s self free from that addiction. lotta lost love and productivity.
Leslie I hate even responding because many of these advocates think people are so gullible. It’s like a script or list of claims. Read it so many times.
I stand corrected. Less than 10% of users become partially dependent on marijuana. I still maintain more are addicted to this blog than addicted to pot. Just try to stop for month, Ms. Leslie.
semantics and hate are not helpful in the struggle, lynn. acronyms may be, like, AA, Alanon, NA, Smart Recovery(C). But they don’t work very well, and recovery rates are very low. Science is way behind the curve here, so who knows, the legalizers may be right after all. as a non-user i have no anecdotal experience, however my extended families have had many, many devastating consequences.
If porter, bob, larry, 96, jerry or others here who speak a lot about legalization are not in these percentages of addicts, more power to them. they are very fortunate. perhaps they can take advantage of the billions of dollars coming the way of legalization. med marijuana is just that, and while not a substantial medicine according to predominant medical science, like hemp, which is not likely a vital product, I too will take cory’s tack.
yah got that right , Porter;) no more posts for a month-ha!
In conclusion, after seeing that less than 10% of pot smokers show signs of emotional dependence (with NO physical withdrawal symptoms) it appears many more are having problems with sugar than cannabis. Diabetes kills ….. pot lowers anxiety and increases endorphin response. Marijuana is safer than doughnuts. Is it time to regulate and criminalize corn syrup? Some (mostly from German descent) would say, “Fun of any Type Is Harmful and WE WILL STOP IT!!” ??
Lynn, the SDDP has not taken this route yet, at least not in any public, documentable way. As Mark says, the D-Days speaker roster is not proof the SDDP is taking the route you loathe. Don’t hit that SDGOP phone bank yet.
I agree with your assessment that we can’t count on the pot crowd for useful voter turnout. That’s why I recommend the SDDP not take that route. But you and I disagree on the threat assessment. You view backing pot as a dealbreaker, a terrible policy choice that outweighs all other good the Democratic Party can do and all harm the Republican Party can do. I view pro-pot as a tactical error that draws few new voters, reinforces but does not expand conservative bias against our brand, but does not justify telling Paula Hawks and Bernie Hunhoff to go to heck or voting for the destructive theocracy and corporate fascism of Kristi Noem and Roger Hunt.
But again, we’re fighting over something that the SDDP has not yet done.
Getting young people to the polls is the best way to beat the earth hater party: it’s just that simple.
leslie, the Colorado Democratic Party helped drive legalization there just as Democrats in other states are doing.
young people and donuts! awwww
What young people are you referencing, Ms. Les? Most advocates of decriminalization are seniors with aches and pains and a wiser view of what’s important. PS … how much sugar have you used this morning? HUH? :)
Entrenchment in both parties has driven people from the democratic process: witness 20% turnout rates that favor the earth hater party and not progress.
just the facts, ma’am …. NYT this morning – Marijuana advocates in Colorado are seeking to allow legal pot use in establishments like bars or clubs that cater to over-21 crowds, calling it “limited social cannabis use.”
Pot smoking is now allowed only in private homes and on front porches in the state.
Separately, a study shows that marijuana has toppled tobacco as the smokable substance of choice among U.S. college students.
Just like Germany in the 30’s, I see that the Republican National Committee is now requiring a loyalty oath to be signed by members to try to corner the Donald. One thing about Democrats that is a beautiful thing, there is no loyalty oath required. Democrats believe in laws that show that responsible adults should be able to live their lives without the jackboot of government on your neck. All people, but women and folks of color, should take note of this beautiful fact and vote accordingly. Democrats want a society of the people by the people for the people, while Republicans demand a society that is just the opposite. Democrats offer freedom while Republicans demand servitude.
Melissa,
“I believe in winning the honest way and anyone who has to cheat to win is in fact the loser. ”
Posted 8/11/2015 Dakota Free Press
Your Ballot Initiative has already had an issue with promoting swapping drinks for signatures on a petition at a bar in Pierre yet your not disclosing who and how the rent is being paid at the New Approach for South Dakota Offices? Transparency issues? You realize this is not a private venture but a statewide ballot initiative subject to election laws right?
What is the address for these new offices with photos posted to the New Approach facebook page?
Cory,
It’s ok. I’ve seen enough in the past 1 1/2 years with reading posts and comments on Madville, later Dakota Free Press, seeing what’s happening within the SDDP tactically and strategically and this latest move by the party has helped finalize a significant move for me on the political spectrum. I’ll do what I can to help the SDGOP.
One thing for sure is that 2016 will be a very interesting election year here in South Dakota.
@Melissa ….. Tell her to pound sand or just let me do it.
Lynn,
Your childish tantrum and closed-mindedness about anyone or anything that is even tangentially related to marijuana makes it evident that if you are serious about “switching over and helping the SDGOP,” (which I doubt you are, or you wouldn’t have threatened it innumerable times in this thread alone, you would just do it. It’s what high schoolers in relationships do to get attention from their mate) that you would be a perfect fit in that phone bank anyway. So please, don’t threaten the Democrats in SD with a good time.
… vote her off the island
The loyalty oath got to Lynn and she casts her lot. Good for her. Bu bye.
The SDGOP has some brown shirts that I am sure will fit you Lynn, go get’um tiger.
Lynn, maybe I’m naïve, but I don’t think the discussion on this blog represents any tactics of the SDDP. The SDDP seems to interact with this blog very sparingly, and I have yet to see the party directly campaigning for much of anything in these comment sections. If there is a movement afoot to throw wide the doors to reefer madness, I am not part of said plot and will not accept implication therein.
Lynn is not our enemy. Neither is Melissa Mentele. Neither is Jonathan Hunt. If I had to stake a position, I’d draw Lynn, Melissa, and Hunt in a triangle and pinpoint myself somewhere midway between Lynn and Melissa and farther away from Hunt. I might take a potshot at Jonathan Hunt, but I’m focusing my attention on Roger Hunt, the GOP, and our corporate overlords.
Giving Mentele and Hunt an opportunity to speak at the D-Days Pig Roast is not tantamount to genocide. It does not in itself justify abandoning the SDDP (which has not endorsed the position of any of the speakers listed) and actively campaigning for the SDGOP.
I use the term “genocide” in reference to a high-school policy debate tendency to link every disadvantage argument against a plan to the end of the world. Instead of settling for a fair argument about the relative benefits and disadvantages of a policy in terms of marginal changes in tax burdens, GDP, environmental conditions, etc., Negative debaters feel compelled to concatenate a wild series of causes and effects to demonstrate that some minor federal policy change would lead to the death of the planet, an ultimate harm that outweighs every possible good that any imaginable Affirmative plan could produce. The intent is to simplify the debate for the judge, who should ignore all the percentages of growth and increased jobs and reduced pollutants in favor the insurmountable Annihilation of Everything. Lynn has argued herself into believing that liberalizing the law on marijuana will lead to absolute social devastation, outweighing any possible good that could come from any other candidate and any other policy.
That’s a false absolutism. I don’t accept it in debate rounds, and I don’t accept it in policy. More kids smoking dope is bad. So is denying South Dakota women and same-sex couples and transgender students and American Indians equality under the law. So is the youth minimum wage, gerrymandering, payday lending, and the Incumbent Protection Plan.
Even if Democrats lose the round on marijuana policy, they win rounds on at least eight other policies that I can come up with off the top of my head.
Marijuana has harms. Its Solvency is questionable. Running a marijuana plan does not offer Democrats a significant offensive advantage, and so far, the Democrats have not committed to running that plan. Even if they do, as long as that plan is not run to the exclusion of the eight issues I just laid out above and others, Democrats will on the whole still be doing more right than the Republicans and will deserve our continued support.
On petition bribery, Melissa offered an explanation of that situation here.
Query …. Did either political party endorse video lottery?
The average IQ of both the major political parties in SoDak rises noticeably.
Lynn,
If you feel the need to send me flowers or love notes please send them to my home as it is a public record and I maintain a land line with a listed number. Our office space is a within the offices of our donor that is why we are not sharing the address and the 200.00 a month donation of shared office space will be claimed in our end of year finance report. Thank You for your interest in our cause.
As always gentlemen it has been a pleasure.
Melissa
Porter,
I don’t think they did.
However, the first time the issue was on the ballot, which was in 1994, Beddow the Democratic nominee for governor that year came out at the end of the fall campaign in favor of the initiative to end video lottery; while state Democrats were relying heavy upon on money from that industry to fund state legislative races at the same time.
In a Kelo interview between Janklow’s two two-term reigns, I remember him agreeing with a reporter that VL might have been a mistake, but then he defeated Beddow in 1994 (when he returned to power the second time), kept VL and increased the state’s share of the takings to fund property tax relief for homeowners.
As far as its initial coming of age through the legislature, VL was the Mickelson administrations’ idea and I do not remember what the Democraticposition was on it publicly at the time, however.
Dang, Melissa—I was hoping the office was a location to send donations, conduct public meetings, invite the press for interviews, etc.
For what it’s worth, I’d tell your donors to cowboy up! If you believe in something, believe boldly! Standing for issues publicly is a good way to encourage more people to stand.
Interesting note on video lottery and Beddow’s position. Is there any sign that his position significantly changed his vote total?
SDAP has a bigger online presence than New Approach. . . If only people weren’t he’ll bent on being competitiive. . .to a point of trying to take other people’s things. . . Maybe resources could be shared. Mentele has made it clear. . . She doesn’t want affiliated events with SDAP. .. But was frothing at the mouth to “share” our state fair booth after she unsuccessfully attempted to heist our contracted spot. Even so much that I was told by state fair coordinator, New Approach is blacklisted from future fair events.
Cory, that I do not remember. The final days of that race were dictated by the VL insider trading allegations alleged against BJ at the time, however – which put an interesting twist on that race and the VL initiative that year…. Yet, VL prevailed.
Beddow did do better than most Democrats running for governor that year (the 1994 Newt Year) in the region, but I think it was a culmination of things which caused that to happen like the allegations and the fatigue of a Republican nominee running for a third term after a hotly contested primary race against the sitting Republican governor at the time, Walter D Miller.
A bigger online presence, Ryan? How do you quantify that presence? And can you show us how that presence translates into signatures, donors, and votes?
And hang on: New Approach is blacklisted from the State Fair, but SDAP is not? That’s unexpected! Can we get the fair director on record with that statement?
solem: welcome from san francisco :) seriously, ewwww-a fair booth controversy could upend pot in SD? wow. finally, cory, u forgot to say nevada taxation is egregious, and bad!
I wish you would consider the issue of medical marijuana on its merits, Cory, rather than through this partisan lens. There are people suffering because a harmless plant is senselessly criminalized, and the best they can get from you is “what can you do for me?” It seems crass, and not at all in line with the thoughtful, compassionate approach you take to most other issues.
I think its amazing that asking when we knew you were short on resources is considered “Frothing at the mouth” our conversations were very reasonable. What you did was not a win. You out of your desire for fame and being competitive….after you post and preach about how well medical cannabis works….effectively blocked the medical cannabis bill and patients from being properly represented at one of the largest events in the state. Your refusal also made it so all of you able bodied people will get to sit while the disabled volunteers of New Approach will have to stand and hustle for signatures. Bravo quite a win you got there. Interestingly the comment of being “black listed” from future fair events is not true but hey you got the seed planted somewhere that we are bad people for fighting for the rights of patients in SD. I think we are doing pretty damn good….close to 8000 signatures worth of good.
Neal, I’m not as interested in debating the merits of any specific medicine because I am not a medical expert. It may seem crass, but as we’ve seen from other discussions on this topic, there is an important political question for the SDDP to resolve: Does supporting either medical marijuana or marijuana decriminalization affect its chances of winning elections? Will the medical marijuana issue unleasg a groundswell of activism that can be put to good use on other issues?
I’m not going to be Mr. Compassion on this issue, because frankly, I share some of Lynn’s suspicions. I know there are activists of good conscience fighting to alleviate genuine suffering, but pushes for medical marijuana also bear their own whiff of self-interest: “Yeah, dude, let’s support medical marijuana, ‘cuz then it will be easier for us to get our own pot!” When I bring up the “crass” question of “What can the medical marijuana backers do for the SDDP?” I’m really looking for evidence that the MM push is genuine and not just dopers out for their own good time whose compassion and enthusiasm for social justice won’t disappear in the haze of easier marijuana access.
8,000 signatures in hand: 58% of the way to the legal threshold, 44% of the way to a 30% cushion, with two months to go… that’s not bad. It’s certainly a more concrete metric of success than an assertion of “bigger online presence.” Right now, can we agree that signature count is the only metric that matters? Ryan, care to share SDAP’s signature count? I mean, if we’re going to have a pissing match, let’s put some real piss in the bucket.
Thanks for the reply Cory. I realize we’re down on the 2nd page now, but if I can keep this conversation going…
You said: “I’m not as interested in debating the merits of any specific medicine because I am not a medical expert.”
You don’t need to be a medical expert to evaluate the merits of this issue. Answer this question: does marijuana have therapeutic value for some people suffering from some conditions? Can any reasonable person actually say “no” to that at this point?
And if marijuana can serve as medicine for some people, should they really be faced with criminal prohibitions for using it as such? Up to a YEAR in jail for possession of effective, safe, and virtually harmless medicine? Can any reasonable person actually say “yes” to that?
Who cares if some supporters of medical marijuana are using the issue to advance a greater agenda. That greater agenda will be decided on its own merits. It doesn’t change the fact that marijuana is medicine, and that there are people suffering because they are criminally prohibited from using it. Your skepticism about the motives of some activists doesn’t diminish the opportunity you have to be compassionate toward those who this law is designed to help. Your skepticism about individuals doesn’t have any proper bearing on the merits of the issue itself.
My skepticism does properly bear on our evaluation of the evidence presented by people who are trying to advance a greater agenda.
Perhaps, if there was a genuine debate about the questions I posed above.
But there isn’t, and if the avalanche of anecdotal evidence isn’t enough to persuade you, just consider the 20+ years of history of medical marijuana in what now is around half of the United States. If marijuana didn’t work as medicine, or if abuses of legal medical marijuana programs outweighed benefits, wouldn’t just one of those states have reconsidered their laws and returned to prohibition?
But that hasn’t happened. Not one state that has legalized medical marijuana has gone back. That’s because 1) marijuana works as medicine, and 2) legal medical marijuana works as policy.
I look forward to genuine advocates bringing forward that genuine debate. I look forward to Mentele having a chance to make her case before the attendees at Winegar’s Vermillion event. I look forward to hearing how those attendees evaluate the evidence offered and what role they decide they and the party should take in promoting that message. I particularly look forward to seeing if South Dakota’s medical community can be persuaded to support Mentele’s message.
I won’t stand in the way of that discussion. But I have yet to be persuaded that the issue warrants more of my active analysis and argument than I have offered in this post. I’ll work for broader democratic and Democratic issues that empower all people to act on a wider array of issues, including medical marijuana, but I won’t focus on this issue specifically.
anecdotal evidence is that bob lazar back engineered one of nine flying saucers that bend space and travel light years instantly, all hangared in a mountainside near the air force’s groom lake nevada in 1989, all powered by a heavy, stable element 115 (that was recently discovered in a big particle accelerator). that’s what we need for marijuana- a scientific analysis.