I get the impression that comparing racist former nurse Ryane Godkin Oliva and former police chief and Rapid City mayoral candidate Steve Allender is grossly unfair. Oliva exhibits a level of vileness and thoughtlessness that we can only hope is a fading effect of youth and inexperience. Oliva’s online outburst against American Indians is so unpublishably vulgar and her immediate posting of such filth is so ill-advised that Rapid City Regional Health would have done well to re-evaluate her fitness for employment even if she had just been talking about an individual rather than a racial minority. Allender has been accused of making racist comments at work, but while he has not denied much of the offensive language attributed to him, we’ve seen no sign of a rage comparable to Oliva’s or ill judgment in making such comments public.
Oliva had an emotional outburst and shared it immediately with the world, on video. Allender offered notably more thoughtful, well-developed opinions in four years of public blog posts, then deleted them for apparently political reasons. Oliva’s primary error was in her impulsive publication of such vulgar material; Allender’s primary error was in deleting quality content (even though he can offer an arguable, not entirely CYA rationalization for his action).
Yet both made the error of thinking that they could remove online content and make it disappear from public discourse.
The public Internet is a good twenty years old. Widespread social media is pushing ten. Maybe that timeframe makes a steep learning curve for some, but all of us—nurses, politicians, teachers, Grandma and Grandpa—need to understand that the Web is not a fantasy land that operates by different rules. The things we say online are as real as the things we say at the office or at the bar. Whoever hears our words cannot unhear them. And when we say those words online, a whole lot more people can hear them for a lot longer time.
Think before you hit “Publish.” And once you publish, be ready to stand by those words forever.
Unless you post anonymously at DWC. Then you can spew whatever you want at whomever and you aren’t accountable to it.
Rep. Hickey, i’m so sorry that the members of your political party have nothing to do but assail your comments at their blog. My offer to shepherd you into our party still stands.
I agree, Steve, that the barroom brawlers and burblers of the commentariat should put their names to their words as surely as they would put their faces behind their flatulence in direct conversation at the bar.
Larry, both parties reek to me these days. Dems are blind to the humanity of the unborn. Repubs see personhood in corporations.
Rep. Hickey, even the chair of the SDDP believes certain medical procedures should be banned, that women are subject to the whims of an extremist legislature and by a Congress paid for by those corporate persons. We would be honored and humbled to have you join our ranks.
I saw this, not surprised, just saddened that a nurse would say this.
Mr Hickey, I believe you are blind to the thousands of South Dakotans that would be able to afford healthcare if you supported Medicaid expansion. Uninsured people getting the mental health services they need would be an incentive to support expansion. Many times people wait until they are deep into depression and suicidal and then walk into an ER for help, which we know is a huge player in driving up healthcare costs.
If you go into the Rapid Journal comments section about this racist woman’s rants, the mentality of people trying to defend this woman is appalling. People pulling the freedom of speech tirade and that Native Americans do this also and so on…..
Really South Dakotans, get a grip….. the country is watching. Time to call up MPR again.
Just tweeted your comment to MPR, Jenny: good eye.
I’m having difficulty becoming angry at the nurse as I have not yet seen the video in question. Where did everyone see it?
Ever more reasoning to require all posters to use their full name. If you can’t, you are nothing more than a coward.
Racism is racism. There may be worse and worst racism but each level does its damage.
If one is racism with rage, they can at some point be ignored and banned. But when the good guys are racist means that when a person gets past the angry ones and hope to have a chance, then the slyer racists do not give the minority the opportunities they should have. If someone says racial comments just because Dad did it worse, does not make that person immune from denying someone an opportunity for employment of friendship which puts that person still at a disadvantage because of their race.
So the haters are still the worst. But the unintended racism looks nice but is still denying freedom to Americans.
Here is the nurse’s video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f1d57xF6jE&feature=youtu.be
Hope you don’t mind Cory, actually this should be a good learning tool for anyone that is on Social Media. :(
This video can never be erased for good.
Daniel – “Coward”? Cory has my contact info and has my permission to provide it to you.
To any conservatives out there, or anybody that is seeing this wanting to defend her, I don’t want this woman’s life to be ruined by this dreadful mistake. I want her to get help for her anger so hopefully she can be at peace.
Dems have their eyes wide open to the realities of the world,especially to not forcing Motherhood on women who aren’t physically,financially or emotionally stable enough to have children. Wingnuts demand all feti be born,but that is where they feel their obligations end as far as kids are concerned.
Why is it wingnuts find an insurmountable burden for wealthy religious groups to fill out a single gubmint form to show they shouldn’t have to pay for birth control and then they can throw all kinds of obstacles in the way of a woman seeking an abortion and claim the burden(s) are not insurmountable for poor [people?
Yellow belly, coward. I stand by my words and I use my name. If someone has to query that info, then it’s an avenue to retrieve info that is not needed. All that says to me is you are hoping that no one has enough sense to try digging that far. They shouldn’t have to if you truly stand behind what you post. You should have no problem putting it in your posts if you allow Cory to give it out freely to anyone who asks. Sounds to me like some just don’t want to be “searchable” so to speak. That’s shady.
Well said Roger Elgersma, I could not agree more.
Sounds like you are calling Curt out for a duel, DB. Or wishing any who might want the duel to have that easy opportunity.
Some might even come for the ease of drawing duel into their game of entertainment with easy ID on commenters.
For me it is about protecting my biz partners from folks like you.
I watched it twice and can’t hear any actual words she said. I need a transcript.
Jenny raises the matter of those who defend the nurse’s rant on the basis of free speech. The First Amendment prohibits Congress from making laws that prohibit the exercise of free speech. That does not mean that people cannot be called into account for they say or made responsible for the damage they do. And it does not prohibit organizations from establishing standards of expression so that productive discussion is not undermined by malicious scurrility. Rapid City Regional Hospital took very quick action to make sure people understood that Nurse Oliva did not represent their mission or the professions that carry out that mission. Whatever inspired that tirade, Nurse Oliva showed that she did not have the professional mentality to deal with the stressful situations people in the healing professions often meet.
Much of what is published in the social media and in comment sections is libelous. The courts no longer apply the law stringently against defamation, but people are getting fired from their jobs everyday in being held responsible for what they say. Newspapers are held responsible (but not to the degree they were a few decades ago) for any defamatory or false statements made in letters to the editor. That liability extends to other kinds of organizations when their employees speak in ways that reflect negatively and damagingly on their professions. In the case of Nurse Oliva, firing her prevents any Native Americans from being endangered by the kind of treatment she might render them. The licensing board might well take the same action.
Mfi – A transcript would be unprintable. Use your imagination. She is saying hateful things about ‘Indians’ and they are giggling about it.
OK, Mr Buresh. My offer is withdrawn. Have a lovely day – wherever you may be.
Here is the transcript from Lakota Voice: “Indians can suck a mother-f—ing fart out my f—ing ass. Indians f—ing suck. They suck.”
“For me it is about protecting my biz partners from folks like you.”
Funny you say that Les. Cory likes to make digs at my partners all the time. He’s even gone as far as to say that they are putting words into my mouth and to even suggest that I can’t think for myself. It’s not me you should fear, it might be the one you trust in knowing your last name. As I said before….Cowards.
Thanks Curt and David N. I was thinking I might only be hearing “bleeps.”
Daniel Buresh: “Ever more reasoning to require all posters to use their full name. If you can’t, you are nothing more than a coward.”
I always get a kick out of those who apparently know the history of everyone and anyone who has ever posted a comment. It sounds a bit like ICS: Internet Cowboy Syndrome.
Newsflash: there are a number of reasons why someone wouldn’t post under their full name. I happen to know someone who was threatened online by someone who posted the user’s home address and even a picture of their house. Making matters worse the person made comments about his family – all because of a differing viewpoint. Truth is you never know how mentally stable someone is, so protecting yourself shouldn’t equate to cowardice.
I also know of a woman who had to use a pseudonym online because of a prior abusing boyfriend who (along with his family) followed her around and harrassed her. She could no longer use Facebook or any form of social media where friends could find her because eventually the ex would find her as well. So a pseudonym was the only option.
I also have a friend that shares a name with another gentleman with the same name and they are both residents of the same small town. Sure he could use his full name, but I know for certain he is glad the other fellow doesn’t. Would you want to be confused for somoene else or have comments attributed to you that weren’t yours?
I’ve also heard of employers who have used employee’s comments against them even when those comments have nothing to do with their employment nor were they posted during work hours. There are even companies now that scour the Internet looking for anything they can find to use against someone during employment screenings. I know I said and did a lot of stupid things in my teens… and I wouldn’t want those things to haunt my adult life for decades later.
For those reasons and many, many more that I likely have never considered I have zero problems with posters using a partial or fake name provided they do so with respect. If their only purpose is to troll, toss insults, or manufacture controversy then I have no problem with seeing them banned from a site.
I have my own reasons for not posting my full name, but frankly they are none of your business. You can label people and call them names if you must, but that says a lot more about your character than someone who chooses to use an alias online.
P.S. – It is a lot easier for someone named Jim Smith to use his real name online than it is Jeffrifth Leeboy Dwinklenbacher.
It just happens that I know a number of the commenters here that don’t use their full name, notice that they are not the ominous “anonymous” as seen on other blogs. I also understand and agree that this practice is acceptable in the blogosphere, people seem to have a lot to fear from their words and just maybe physically attacked or have their employment jeopardized. Sibson threatened to call my employer for comments that I made here.
What I strongly disagree with is the South Dakota print media in allowing anonymous commenters, the Rapid City Journal and that Sioux Falls newspaper both require a name, address, and phone number for their letters to the editor, people making comments on their news blogs should be held to the same standard as the letters to editor policy.
The Rapid City Journal news blogs that are about Indians garner the most traffic and comments, they are usually the same people showing their racial hatred of Indians, these are the cowards and the Rapid City Journal is encouraging their racial hatred by posting such comments by anonymous sources.
On occasion I do comment on the Journal, most of my responses are not posted, but when my comments are posted it is pretty much like preaching to the choir. These cowards don’t want discussion, they just want to spew their hate.
On the other hand the Journal posting this racial hatred does serve a greater purpose, it shows that Rapid City is a predominately racist city that has earned the title as one of the “most racist cities in America”.
The lady acted stupid, ahe got fired for her stupidity, for what reason was there a rally?
Whos civil rights were violated here? And what was accomplished by the deninstration. It looks like some sort of victory celebration.
She lost her lively hood, what else would people like to take?
I have been called things that bad when I wouldnt give $5 worth od gas for the fifth time, what should I have done?
The Blindman
Craig,
1. People are unstable. There are quacks on both sides of the arena. Those who don’t truly stand behind their beliefs and convictions, don’t stand behind their name. Imagine, if all throughout history the people we call heroes didn’t use their real names. Rosa Parks, Malcom X, Martin Luther King, JR are a few that come to mind.
2. Stalking is a crime. I suggest she talk with the proper authorities. Social networking has evolved so that you can make everything private, including the fact that your account even exists.
3. It’s been done before to me. I’ve simply stated that was not me.
4. Once again, if you are afraid of your employer or future employers, then you really don’t stand behind what you say.
The biggest troll on this site hides behind a pseudo-name. He takes every chance he has to generalize an entire segment of people and calls them nut jobs in nearly every post. I used to think Larry was a bit like that, but I at least respect him for using his name. I’ve come to like his input. This article is exactly about not standing by what you post. I take it you must agree with politicians who remove past history to avoid controversy? I find that unauthentic.
“You can label people and call them names if you must, but that says a lot more about your character than someone who chooses to use an alias online.”
I call them like I see them. I’ve never sugarcoated a thing in my life and you can bet I’ll say the same thing to you face to face as I do online. Trying to discredit my opinion because of your characterization of me having ICS isn’t going to fly. Take a look in the mirror buddy.
P.S. The only reason it is easier is because they can blend in. That only tells me they don’t want to be known for what they say. End of story.
Roger,
Blogs are not considered journalism and they aren’t offered the same protection under the law. If you expect them to connect those racist remarks to a name, you should expect the same for such political hatred and generalizations. I don’t see a middle ground. You either stand behind your name or you don’t. No matter the topic, they are cowards in my book. They fear retribution more than they stand behind their beliefs.
Daniel,
Who is the biggest troll on this blog that you are referring to?
Lynn,
Who calls their opposing political opponents nut jobs in every post? Figure that out, and you have your answer.
sorry not telepathic
It’s so blatantly obvious. RWNJ signing off.
that could be a number of posters here
Cory is correct, attempts by the Journal commenters to link Allender’s previous racial views to Oliva’s racial rant is futile and pointless.
The Journal posters are also trying to link the beer throwing incident to both Allender and Oliva as justification for their racial outbursts.
And of course there are the comments asking “what if” the nurse was an Indian, would she be fired and other irrelevant comments.
Each and every act of racism needs to be treated unto its own, it is not right to victims of hate to be equated to other acts.
There are also numerous comments on the Journal saying that Indians are racist in their treatment of non-Indian employees of RCRH, apparently this is justification for Oliva’s rant.
RCRH has served my family for decades and I have had a past professional relationship with them. My family and most Indian people I know have had positive experiences with Regional.
Rapid City Regional Hospital needs to be congratulated for the “unity” rally and for all that came together to fight that racial disease.
Instead they are being criticized by some cynics for doing the right thing.
Regional Health has a customer service department that is top notch as far as I am concerned. A few years back, a very traditional Lakota family wanted to have a ceremony for a dying loved one. The hospital not only encouraged the medicine men, they allowed a “saging” ceremony and went so far as to provide adequate ventilation so the smoke would not affect patients or staff.
The hospital has upwards of 3,000 customer complaints and they find innovative ways to solve them, as in the “unity” rally held yesterday.
Naturally the naysayers to the rally have questioned why those in attendance were able to attend, implying that they don’t work.
These naysayers hold everyone to their own employment standards while giving no room for school, work, retirement, etc. schedules.
Therein the lies the racist problems in Rapid City, if you are not exactly like me you are a lazy and on the government dole, to be honest, I would not like to like anyone of them and neither should you.
Is Daniel talking about Grudzy?
Women need to especially careful with all these ‘nutjobs’ that you’re talking about, which is why I don’t use my last name. Would you want your daughter (if you have one) to use her last name on various blogs? No, females are many more times likely to be victims of crimes. We women are just protecting ourselves.
Jenny I have no idea but years ago one internet stalker showed up in front of my house after traveling a from few states away and I had to get the police involved. That person ended up in jail, with a felony and I had a long standing protection order. Thankfully that person is living on the west coast but is probably stalking others now.
The question is what is it that people who write such nasty comments get out of doing so?
We know why people write or say what is they write or say, simply put, because they want to. The next question is what is it that they gain from it?
How horrific, Lynn. Glad the police got him, and it just goes to show that, as women, we can never be too careful.
As an outspoken progressive, whatever you want to call it, I have been scared at times with staunchly conservative men getting angry at me on political blogs. It is just naive to believe it’s okay to post your whole name on a blog. Cory knows me and who I am related to on here. That’s enough.
I generally call them wingnuts,not nutjobs,but if the shoe fits…. and I stand behind everything I post. Shakespeare once said “what’s in a name-or something like that. Doesn’t mean I have to tell you mine.
Yep! All the sudden he shows up at my door. A few of us were worried it would become a murder suicide for a while and I was worried about my friends and family that might have been in danger too. He ended up at the mental ward in the hospital a few times before he finally gave up and moved away. He threw a brick threw my window one evening when I had friends over and I was getting to know the police officers fairly well when their squad car was parked across the street. The police and states attorney office were incredible though I’d never wish that experience on anyone.
Mike from Iowa, what the Bard said was, “A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.” (Romeo and Juliet).
Paul McCartney, on the other hand, once said, “I can smell your feet a mile away.”
There’s probably a connection, them both being British and all. :-)
Jenny,
You mean like Larry telling me to: “keep your vaginal ultrasound out of my stash”
“Go say a couple of Hail Marys, Lynn: it might help to keep you from that carton of ice cream”
“Pull your head out of the opiate haze you live under” as just a few of the tame remarks made by Larry usually?
or Jerry throwing out insults?
They are trying to silence me. It is expected unfortunately.
Jenny,
I do agree that Ryane Godkin Oliva needs help, can hopefully learn, change and try to reach out to those she hurt from this. She has done this before targeting her hate and anger towards African Americans.
Sir Paul had something going on with a raccoon,too,didn’t he? I know very little of Shakespeare and his writings (I’m allergic to that verbiage).
Our community had a great school board member, business man, who years ago made an unpopular decision with the teachers. Within months the community darkened his doors and put him out of business. Upset the right people, DB and you just might find your life upside down no matter how tough you think you might be.
Many folks here know me, probably more who don’t comment than who do. I’ve learned long ago that taking the battle to those who can help remedy rather than a whole town is a lot more cost effective.
DB is speaking of mifi with the rwnj. Mifi is a broken record for the most part which is sad because I don’t read his good posts either.
Lynn, I don’t see why you are getting hazed here. You’ve always seemed polite and fairly reasonable to me. I disagree with you on your position about intoxicating substances, mostly because your arguments don’t really address the heart of the problem. But I don’t think you should be insulted for having an opinion and expressing it.
Poor Les,you’ve changed your tune considerably,Reverend. You aren’t nearly as extreme as you were a year or two ago. Could it be you finally got tired of right wing nuttiness in the extreme?
MFI, in 1991, Paul McCartney painted a picture of Mt. Rushmore. You can see it here. Look for the “Big Mountain Face” title. http://www.paulmccartney.com/arts/faces
Lynn, it IS very disappointing that the DFP boys would attack you like that. I want to think that the progressive wing would treat women better than that, and it makes me cringe when I see comments like that directed to you or anyone else. Would Larry say those comments to you in person, I wonder.
Hey Bill,
Thank you! The only dialog that has devolved with insults thrown at me first were by Jerry and as always Larry who drives many commenters away from this blog and most likely the party. I like Bill Dithmer and he always challenges me and I wish I had more time to dig to counter his argument and see how what he counters with besides enjoying his creative and witty humor. Otherwise BCB you and other’s I’ve enjoyed having a dialog with. There is still room to learn thru disagreement but realizing where we come from in our experiences.
Sibby and Tara Volesky? I’ll simply show up on June 2nd in Mitchell and vote against those two running for school board. No more is needed to be said.
Show me a rwnj statement I’ve made mifi. Ya might have ta get Lynn’s diary but the challenge is on. Btw, mifi, I’ve been here about 7 years so you have some ground to cover. Or is it, you’ve gone soft on someone wearing the GOP tag an not gonna just continue to label all?
i give money to this blog and question the motives of people who accuse me of being addicted to anything then whine when i fight back. my agenda drives me and not the other way around. if my comments drive readers from this blog that means cory has dulled his edge and headed out to pasture. we don’t know if comments here are from one person using three or four handles to troll those using their real names.
Les,
My diary? I was simply sharing with Jenny and other a glimpse into the risks of having your last name out there and I was brief. Otherwise my life is enjoyably boring and drama free! LOL
Besides you told me long ago you ignore my posts. Come on! We can ignore each other’s post and be cool right? :)
keep in mind that pp trolls his own blog readers and has the software he needs to troll this one.
As for driving voters to register as Republicans: that part is true. There are 50,000 reasons to do that: anyone not running for office as a Democrat in South Dakota should be a registered Republican and candidates should be nominated at the state convention.
Larry,
It doesn’t mean crap if your donating money to this blog and your driving away commenters from this blog or away from the efforts from the party which you certainly are unless that is your intention. There were a number of posters that came here that brought really good discussion but how were they greeted? Earth hater! Constant attacks by you and the one in particular had the grace and was polite to excuse himself. He just makes brief announcements now coming over to this blog and he is frustrated with his own party here in SD having no competition to make it better. He has helped out South Dakota Progress another entity that you have continuously slammed while your in New Mexico.
It is what it is Larry and you are a clear liability to the efforts of the party but hey you keep doing what your doing and then get mad and tell those that remain here in SD that they are screwed! Overcoming denial is one of the first and most powerful steps!
Doesn’t Larry have his own blog? If so, why does he have use Cory’s Dakota Free Press?
Larry,
I was looking forward to meeting you in Rapid to tell this to your face what I have long observed with your destructive behavior. I wouldn’t have backed down in my opinion in person. Cory knows I wanted to meet you. LoL If you see my name I have been consistent. Yep I make mistakes at times but I’m not a troll here.
It’s ironic that you wanted the Dakota Progressive to be the official SDDP blog yet with your volatility and postings it was wisely rejected. It’s basically Interested Party #2 with all the vile and whenever someone questions or goes against the legalization of pot sure enough with predictability it shows up on one of you two blogs. It’s humorous in a way.
Lynn, you live in Mitchell and apparently get to Rapid fairly often: how sick of that drive are you?
Always nice to read you, Roger.
Larry,
How much do you donate to buy your place on this blog so you can behave this way and to the party?
As much as I want to donate, Lynn: to Cory or the party. You?
Larry,
The point I’m trying to make is that if your intentions are to help the build the SDDP here in SD your actions negate whatever amount your donating. It really doesn’t matter how much your donating compared to the damage. If your intention is to sabotage your doing a great job!
I have a feeling I could out raise what your donating fairly easy with minimal time in fund raising calls but I won’t lift a finger or waste my time when others who claim to be working towards these same goals end up causing so much damage and hurting the efforts of others including myself.
Have a nice day.
“Imagine, if all throughout history the people we call heroes didn’t use their real names. Rosa Parks, Malcom X, Martin Luther King, JR are a few that come to mind.”
You are comparing civil rights leaders to random comments added to an Internet blog. Think about that for a second. By the way… Malcolm X’s real name was Malcolm Little, so probably not the best example you could provide, but rest assured if someone is really passionate about a topic or event, chances are you’ll see a real name. Some people are involved via different vehicles and their online persona serves a different purpose.
“Stalking is a crime. I suggest she talk with the proper authorities. Social networking has evolved so that you can make everything private, including the fact that your account even exists.”
I’m sure it sounds easy to get a protection order, but in the real world the police aren’t quite as willing to subpoena the records of ISPs or websites in an attempt to track down comments, associate them with IP addresses, and ultimately hope they lead to a person as opposed to someone posting from a public computer at a library or University. It is even harder to prove intent of the comments which could perhaps lead to a criminal conviction.
Trust me – it is much safer, and less intrusive to one’s life to use an alias. It doesn’t really matter if you like it or not.
“It’s been done before to me. I’ve simply stated that was not me.”
Oh well I’m sure that same solution works for everyone then, and I’m sure everyone would always take a person’s word for it. (sarcasm intended)
“Once again, if you are afraid of your employer or future employers, then you really don’t stand behind what you say.”
You’re sort of missing my point. If someone posts a comment about their stance on an issue but ten years later changes their viewpoint due to increased knowledge or a change of heart, should their decade old comment be held against them? It doesn’t matter how much we stood behind our words when they were written, but if our views have changed or if we made past mistakes should those mistakes haunt us for decades?
It is much easier to state an opinion verbally when you know the audience and you have every reason to believe it isn’t recorded nor transcribed for the world to review years into the future. Regardless, I’m sure there are countless reasons why someone wouldn’t want every thought they ever said recorded for posterity. Whether it be comments taken out of context, comments used as part of a legal case such as a custody battle or a lawsuit, or comments waved in someone’s face that were simply misinterpreted – there are times when insulating one from consequences makes sense as none of us can predict the future.
I also find that to some degree anonymity on the Internet opens up dialogue which might otherwise go unheard, and sometimes those statements and views are enlightening. This of course depends upon the site hosting the comments, because while Cory does a fantastic job of controlling spam and trolls there are many sites where anonymity leads to petty name calling, trolling, hate speech, and all around childish behavior.
“The biggest troll on this site hides behind a pseudo-name. He takes every chance he has to generalize an entire segment of people and calls them nut jobs in nearly every post.”
So ignore his comments. Being offended is no reason to restrict the freedoms of others.
“I take it you must agree with politicians who remove past history to avoid controversy? I find that unauthentic.”
I’m not much of a black and white person, so I think each case has to be determined upon its own merits. There are times when it may make sense to remove something that could be misinterpreted, or which had an impact one could not predict. That said, once something is put on the Internet it never really goes away so people need to use caution. If you’re self-employed with all of your friends and family residing in the same echo chamber it is probably easy, but when someone becomes a public figure their words are often taken out of context and purposefully distorted. I can’t speak to specific cases, but obviously there are times when it is easier to retract something and issue a clarification than it is to answer the same questions and give the same explanations time and time again.
Bottom line – you don’t have to like it that people have the freedom to post with their full names or freedom to post as whatever chosen moniker they wish. Yet that is their choice, and in some/many cases the reasons people don’t post under their full names could be very valid. When you visit websites which allow anonymous commenting, then you are making a conscious decision to accept it.
I do understand your view to some degree, and there are times when I’ve thought it would be nice to put a real name to every poster you see because if nothing else it would promote civility, but then again I put freedom and personal choice ahead of my desire to rid the Internet of trolls etc. I’m also a realist, and understand that even if I do stand behind my words 100% there are always those out there who are mentally unstable. I don’t need someone calling me at home or at work just because they disagreed with me on the Internet. I may stand behind my words, but I’m also not ignorant to the world around me.
Jes a little cannibalism here today. Mmmm, we eat each other an build a party. The other partay loves you. Heil. Party above all. By all means, cool!
Larry, there’s valuable, useful edge that promotes constructive discussion, and then there’s just being a jerk.
There’s my First Amendment right to say that a student is acting like an a–h—, and there’s Madison Central School District’s right to fire me for using such language in school.
Looking at Roger’s observation on the RCJ commenters, there’s no justification for racist outbursts.
Considering Craig’s statement about employers’ digging for employee words online to use against them at work as a reason for commenters here to not use their full names… is that digging the same thing Rapid City Regional did before firing Ryane Oliva?
Jenny notes that some folks defend Oliva by saying that Native Americans do the same thing. Native Americans cannot do the same thing. Racism is more than just a member of one race saying nasty things about a different race. Racism has an institutional, power-dynamic angle: a member of the dominant culture denigrating the disempowered culture engages in oppression. Members of the disempowered culture by definition cannot do the same thing. It’s still reprehensible for Native Americans to say things like what Oliva said (and, by the way, who really says such things? Oliva’s vulgar tirade is not a real sentence formed with intelligent thought; it is mental flatulence), but such an outburst from an Indian aimed at whites is not the same same sin.
Cory is right. It is just too easy to overlook the effects of “white privilege” when looking from a white privileged viewpoint. Someone with white privilege is not hurt in the same way as someone from a traditionally oppressed or disadvantaged culture who is the recipient of hateful statements about race.
And here in the good old USA, if you are white, you have white privilege. Think about the “dog-whistle” language, such as “welfare queens,” “unwed mothers having babies for more welfare,” or “thugs” who protest the killing of black unarmed individuals – we all know that these disparaging terms implicitly refer to minorities, not anyone in the white majority (despite the fact that whites can and do break laws or abuse the system).
Thank you Cory and BCB, it certainly look like this thread suffered a severe meltdown and would be totally derailed.
The Regional nurse and other acts of racism in South Dakota and Rapid City are worthy of a healthier discussion.
The reality is that until Cory and other bloggers change their policy on anonymous bloggers or ban certain people, “Cory banned me Sibson”, their policies must be respected, it is their right since they own the blog.
The anonymous blogger argument is like deciding whose God is right, it is unending and adds little value to any discussion.
Les,I care less whether you made any right wing statements-for or against. I simply do not care. From this exact moment until I get tired of this(prolly by tomorrow) I will not use wingnuts or rwnj to describe wingnuts and rwnj. They will now be referred to as the party of fools about to fall off the flat Earth and shall not be named.
Meltdown, Roger? This thread illustrates how unnamed commenters don’t have to account for their words and key to the point of Cory’s post.
Roger,
I’m sorry about what happened to this thread!
What if someone like Ryane Godkin Oliva had not said anything to attract attention or posted online and subtly expressed her disgust, anger towards Native or African Americans, the poor or any other group with the care she was giving at that patient’s most vulnerable time in their lives? Will they receive the same quality care as everyone else? Will they be abused out of hatred or some sick humor and not be treated as human beings with family and friends that love them?
It’s not just a hospital but at nursing homes too where elders reside. They may have Alzheimers or other special needs that require a great deal of patience and attention by those caregivers. Those patients, residents and family members are putting their trust into these institutions and with the right people working their they are like angels but in a rare and wrong setting with someone who could have a hatred towards a certain group it could be a nightmare with discovering your relative or friend has been neglected or abused.
It would be nice if hospital officials knew the difference between “vulgarity” and “profanity”. I will not defend what the nurse said and have no doubt that the hospital had the right to fire her for what she said. It appears that somebody ignorant enough to express such is probably not mentally right for nursing, but it would seem that would require detailed inspection of her work.
The hospital has better things to do than allow this nurse to continue there and spend time and money cleaning up after her.
I think it is wise to consider the content of the posts and perhaps apply a discount to the value of them if they are associated with anonymous names or at least not take them as seriously as others. I almost never agree with Steve Sibson on much of anything, but he at least had the courage to put his name along with his posts. Same goes for Roger Cornelius for that matter.
Les,
I get head hunted weekly so I’m not too worried about it.
Craig,
Not the best examples but I was shooting from the hip. I just find it hard to take anyone serious who isn’t willing to put it on the line.
Stalking is not hard to prove if you can identify a pattern. If you can’t prove its the ex, then how do you know it is? Someone not willing to try gets no sympathy from me.
“Oh well I’m sure that same solution works for everyone then, and I’m sure everyone would always take a person’s word for it. (sarcasm intended)”
Spin that around the other way. Using a single name could potentially link you to comments that aren’t yours. Who’s going to take your word that it isn’t? Someone was posting as DB and it wasn’t me. It’s pretty easy for a single name poster to blow off comments and act like they aren’t their own. What’s stopping me from posting as Lynn?….nothing. By the time it is corrected, the damage could already be done.
“If someone posts a comment about their stance on an issue but ten years later changes their viewpoint due to increased knowledge or a change of heart, should their decade old comment be held against them?”
You bet it should. That’s exactly what we are talking about here. I bet progressives want to know if someone was a former racist and I would put money on it that they rarely believe they change. No one is asking to restrict freedoms. Not allowing anonymity on a private blog is anything but restricting freedom. I don’t have to like that they don’t use their full names, but don’t get mad when I look over it and never acknowledge you or take anything you say seriously. It all boils down to a person allowing fear to trump their ability to express their opinion.
This is all about accountability. If you are running for office or attempting to get a job, stating that first name poster isn’t you is too easy. I just see it as an easy cop-out. Employee or public servant, those who are in charge have every right to use your personal comments against you and if you feel that it could get you fired or not elected, then I suggest you keep those comments to yourself.
“This thread illustrates how unnamed commenters don’t have to account for their words and key to the point of Cory’s post.”
Exactly correct, Larry. When the time comes where those alias commenters could be negatively affected by an employer or voters, they have the perfect excuse not to own up to it.
Hey Lynn, better yet, why don’t you write a letter to the editor and publicly come out against me for the school board. What are we teaching our children by not putting our name to our comments. There is a reason SD is oppressed and people our scared to say anything. The good old boys get what they want in towns like Mitchell, because they have people like Lynn to afraid to vote for anything but the status quo. They want to keep you obedient and uninformed. Hey Lynn, did you buy your seat next to Bruce Yackley for the 1240 seat, $20 million dollar Fine Arts Center that the taxpayers will be building for the Oligarchy of Mitchell. Don’t complain about teachers salaries if Sibby and I lose. The only problem is, the 70% of the people we represent, won’t come out and vote because they don’t even know this Tosh Mahal is even being built. They are to busy trying to scrape by. I just ran into a play director that said they are lucky if they get a 150 people to a performance. Come on Lynn, write that letter and don’t be a coward. It won’t offend me at all. In fact maybe I will start respecting you like I do Roger, Larry, Daniel, Nick, Bill, Cory, and whoever else that I missed who puts their name to their comments. Thank you.
Can’t believe I missed this gem…..setting women back 50 years must be their goal.
“Women need to especially careful with all these ‘nutjobs’ that you’re talking about, which is why I don’t use my last name. Would you want your daughter (if you have one) to use her last name on various blogs? No, females are many more times likely to be victims of crimes. We women are just protecting ourselves.”
With the exception of rape, males are more likely to be the victims of violent crime than females are. Even in the cases of rape, its hard to determine since men are even more unlikely to report such instances.
Well Daniel, maybe women just need to be quiet and not run for office? Yes, I hope my daughter does speak out and won’t be afraid to use her name. We need to teach our children to not be afraid. I see in the public schools things are different with the new Common Core. Bye bye local control. Big Business is now in control. Hey Daniel, I just feel we need more female leaders like Elizabeth Warren. She is my role model. So was my mother. If you want to make a difference in this world, wether you are male or female, I would suggest putting your NAME on a ballot and run for local office. All politics are local.
That’s what they are suggesting, not I. I’m not the one suggesting hiding their name because of gender. Even acknowledging such an absurd idea is harmful to women’s rights.
Sorry Daniel, my mistake. After I posted it, I figured it out. Anybody that posts their full name and is a volunteer fireman such as you Daniel has my full respect.
Cory, I sure hope you don’t support Women Suppression. Lynn, you talk about Larry, maybe you should start with yourself. My number is 292-0888. I would love to take you out for coffee if you aren’t to scared to call me. And sorry I won’t be a rubberstamper school board member. That’s why I am running.
You know for people who don’t respect those who don’t use their full names, don’t wish to acknowledge them, or take anything they say seriously – you two sure spend a lot of time complaining about them.
As one of my former professors used to say: “Build a bridge and get over it”.
BTW, “Tosh Mahal” is probably the funniest thing I’ve read all week. Thanks for that Tara.
When you build your bridge Craig, make sure you put your name on it. Craig, sorry I can’t take credit for “Tosh Mahal” that’s what the majority of the people of Mitchell refer the FAC too. I think it is pretty funny also. I am waiting for my phone to ring Lynn………come on, you can do it. Even Dr. Graves called me the other day. Just because you aren’t going to vote for me doesn’t mean I don’t like you. I just want women to know that it is very liberating to not fear using your name to something you stand for. Thanks again.
BCB, we all need reminders of the white privilege that benefits us every day and which we in the comfy soup never notice.
Daniel, in line with your philosophy, I avoid engaging with folks on Twitter who use fake handles. I even blew off the pro-Weiland Flyover Wire because they wouldn’t trust me even privately with their identity.
That said, on the stalking “take ’em to court” response—that’s more easily said than done. Some people would rather control their information and suffer the minor inconvenience of your and my not assigning them as much credence in online discussions than incur the stalking, hire lawyers and P.I.s, and hope they can catch the stalker in something prosecutable before suffering harm.
And Tara, Women Suppression? Don’t even think of trying to take me down that road. Point to one comment in this discussion that could point in that direction.
http://www.kansascity.com/news/government-politics/article20822424.html
Here is Exhibit A of why tou don’t use your real name when using social media. OTOH it happened to a member of the party of family values,so i’m good with this.
“When you build your bridge Craig, make sure you put your name on it.”
I think you misunderstood the comment. I wouldn’t be the one building the bridge, but if I were it wouldn’t have my name on it as that would seem rather arrogant. Unlike Denny Sanford, I really wouldn’t want my name on everything I do.
There wouldn’t be any trolls allowed under the bridge either. So there’s that.
That has nothing to do with using your name considering its the recipient who sets the name on texts and imessages, not the sender. Quick, everyone, give an alias to everyone on your phone. That should make things interesting. Swing and a misssssss by the resident troll.
Craig, I rather be called arrogant over a coward.
Good for you Tara. I’d rather not call people names… but to each his/her own I suppose.
You started it Craig ??????????, but I forgive you. Thanks, your friend, Tara Volesky. Come on Craig, there is nothing to fear but fear itself. OK, forgive me if I sound arrogant.
Daniel, if you’re talking sexual crimes, women are far more likely to be victims. I out of every 6 females will have been raped by the time they’re adults. Deb Geelsdottir who comments on Cory’s blog frequently knows a lot about crimes on women and could give you some statistics. I have three sisters and one of them was raped so that is fitting closely with the stats I mentioned above. Yes, men will rape men also, and I also have a brother who was raped when in an alcohol induced state, so I’m not trying to downplay male sexual crimes either.
“No, females are many more times likely to be victims of crimes. We women are just protecting ourselves.”
Jenny, you can’t change the goalposts once I called out your bs statement.
But let’s just downplay everyone’s responsibility in keeping themselves and their family safe from crime.
Your fears are completely unfounded and irrational.
Like I said Daniel, I need to know what kind of crime are you talking about. I will give you credit if what you’re telling me is true, that men are more like to be crime victims. I am interested in reputable statistics for what you’re telling me. Hey DFPers, is it true? Are there more male victims of crime? Honestly, I would like to know.
Cory, Bill Fleming, Bill Dithmer is this true?
So if my fears are unrational are the NRA people that carry their guns around everywhere unfounded and irrational also because they fear they might become victims also?
In Daniel’s mind, he is a victim, like all males are and that gives carte blanche on carrying a pea shooter. I too feel like I am about to be victimized and that is why I am thinking of cross dressing to protect myself. Nothing says “I am more dangerous that you” by wearing a skirt and heels, especially in gumbo. I could be wrong though, lets let Daniel produce the stats on rape and stuff like that.
Women, if you are afraid to use your name, then, keep hiding under your doormats. The Tin Foil Hat Lady, Lora Hubbel is about the only other female that uses her full name on this sight. Is there one Democrat woman that uses her name, or do the Republicans have you beat. So much for Democrat Women being role models for our young girls. I know Kathy Tyler made a few comments. Good job Kathy. Stay scared and make excuses ladies. The boogy man might get you.
While I appreciate people using their first and last names while posting, I understand why some don’t. Of more importance to me is the use of a constant handle, it makes it much easier to follow debates if I know a comment is made by “Jenny” rather than “Craig”. Comment sections on blogs that allow comments signed “anonymous” are much harder to follow because you don’t know which anonymous commenter is making the comment.
I would like to pose a question to the people here, should the young nurse who made this stupid racist comment be forever punished? Should all future employers dismiss her employment application without further thought because of this incident? Is she under a lifelong cloud? Or do we believe that, while she made a grave mistake, redemption and contrition are possible and she can learn a lesson from this? I’m a father of 4 women between the ages of 25-35. If this were one of my daughters I’d be disappointed but would hope she would be able to still find work.
She should not lose her career over a racist rant, but she needs to do the proper steps and ask for forgiveness and possibly be dismissed from her job for a period of time until she is redeemed. And Cory, please get Sibby back on here so I am not the only one getting bashed. Sorry, folks but we are the candidates for teachers and students, not the “Tosh Mahal” lol.
This seriously slews my image of the brains it takes to become an RN. I doubt this gal has enough wit about her to understand racism or white priveledge, Nick and would hate to see her burned at the stake for a comment directed from her experience with a few at best.
Jenny, here’s what I found. There are some other sites as well. The upshot is that while men are more often crime victims, women are more risk averse. Makes sense to me psychologically and ethologically.
http://www.quora.com/Who-tends-to-be-more-more-fearful-of-being-crime-victims-men-or-women-Why
As far as Lynn or any of you not voting a Sib or Tara for the simple reasons stated, that scares me more than anything Sib has ever stated.
I’ve been on boards most of my adult years and the best boards had objectionists who brought thought to the issues on the table. You like status quo, vote the rubber stamper who goes along to get along.
Nick, I don’t think her mistake should ruin her career. Scapegoating is an ugly thing. Almost as ugly as racism, and in many ways just the other side of the same coin.
If Cory ever allows Sibson back on Dakota Free Press (Sibson still calls it Macville Times), I’ll be the first to say goodbye to Cory.
Either that is a childish statement or you’re backing it with good donations to Corys tip jar, Roger.
Jenny,
I’m talking about crime in general as you stated in your initial quote.
Here’s some light reading for you to prove that point: http://nortonbooks.typepad.com/everydaysociology/2009/05/who-is-most-likely-to-be-a-crime-victim.html
Males are more likely to be victims of violence if we are considering gender alone. Stating that simply being a woman means you need to hide your identity in fear of retribution is false. Now, don’t forget to dig into the Bureau of statistics and FBI stats to see how that breakdown compare by types of crime.
That’s quite the addition Jerry. You and Mike should hang out together and have fun eating crow.
Tara: “You started it Craig”
I’m saddened this is the level this discussion has stooped to, but honestly Tara I have no idea what you’re referring to. You’ll note I did not call you arrogant, but rather indicated I would be arrogant to name a bridge after myself. Significant difference.
@Nick – your comment evokes one of my original points. I do think there are ramifications of one’s actions and words and this nurse should be held accountable for those words. Her termination was earned and she has nobody to blame for that other than herself.
However, let’s say for a moment that this is a defining moment in her life and she learns from this experience. Perhaps it will open doors to interactions with minorities that she has never had the benefit of speaking with, perhaps it will help her realize that there are good people and bad people in every race and that just because you have a negative interaction with one person of one race does not in any way indicate all people of that race are the same. Maybe this will offer her some humility, maybe it will teacher her empathy and understanding and actually make her a better nurse in the end because she will learn that there is a difference between treating a person vs. caring for a person.
So if there was a legitimate change in her life and an honest apology and a changed outlook… should her words continue to harm her career 10, 20, or 30 years later? Fact is, now that this has transpired there is a good chance that if you Google her name 10 years from now it will result in this incident being the top hit (or at the very least on the first page). Because of this, chances are she will have much more difficulty finding a job unless she opts to change her name. I also suspect many facilities would refuse to hire her because she is a direct reflection upon them, so in many ways she will be like a convicted felon searching for a job. She may land somewhere eventually, but it probably won’t be her first choice, and it may require her to spend years proving herself. Now some might say she deserves that after her actions – but the question is does the punishment fit the “crime”?
Hard to say without being able to see into her heart or into the future. The short term impact is clearly deserved – the longer term impacts are anyone’s guess. However this should be a lesson to everyone that if your actions and words can continue to live a life of their own for years into the future. You may not be remembered for the good things you said or did, but rest assured when you screw up publicly it will carry on and on.
Sorry Craig, I am wrong again. Sorry, I thought you called me arrogant. Forgive my coward comment even though I feel it is cowardly not to use you name. I am still waiting for that phone call Lynn….292-0888. Can anyone name any women Democrats that have commented here using there names. Not even one?????? Roger and Cory, you should like Sibby, he writes articles about you guys all the time. Let him back on and you all can gang up on him. lol.
Well Daniel, why did your stats separate rape from other violent crimes? I’m guessing if all rapes or attemted rapes were reported and taken seriously,your stats would look quite different. Go eat your own crow.
Mike,
It didn’t separate rape from other violent crimes. It merely stated that rape is the one violent crime where women are victims in higher numbers. That is still included in the total for which men are more likely to be victims when totaling all crimes. Learn to comprehend.
Les,
It is neither childish or hitting Cory’s tip jar, Sibson is simply a bore.
I would say Roger is acting childish and thin-skinned. It’s good to have different points of view. Just because Sibby has a different belief system than most on here should not mean you marginalize him. He’s a good guy. You might think he is a little weird, but most people with high IQ’s are weird. I am glad he is running for the school board. We need more people like him the will represent the teachers over special interest projects.
Tara, if Sibson is one of your hero’s, why don’t you ever comment on his blog? Are you too childish and thin skinned to even support his blog?
Or, are you the sole and lonely anonymous that comments there.
To be clear, when I go to that blog I read the headline only and see if there are any comments. One thing is certain, just as with you Tara, if you read one or two of his posts, you have read them all.
Additionally, I’m very selective about my fiction reading, there is plenty of quality material available.
Daniel,your stats left out transgendered Leprechauns,too.
Well Daniel and Bill F, I didn’t realize this but it is indeed true, according to the stats, that men are more likely to be victims of crime than are women. Thank you, Daniel, for educating me on this one. I know if you break it down minority men would be at much more higher rates of crimes than white men, though. Poorer neighborhoods, policemen targeting minority men.
One thing good about today’s social media, people are sure catching the police attacks on African American men today. It is disturbing how prevalent it does happen.
I meant minority men are at higher crime victim rates than white men. Okay, take it from there…..
Tara,
Isn’t “You started it Craig”, rather childish?
No, because I thought he started it with the name calling, but I was adult enough to admit my mistake when I misinterpreted his comment. I did apologize Roger. Roger you are being a big baby because Steve Sibson is too much for you. Quit being so narrow minded. Sibson would make a great Independent. Isn’t he supporting Sanders and Warren who are against the TPP?
Daniel, finding stats from 2003 and saying they are accurate 12 years later is no reason for me to eat crow, but maybe a reason for you to drink some Old Crow to knock the cob webs from the melon. Nice try though, I must admit that you worked your arse off to get this old incomplete story put together. Could you work a little bit more to bring yourself and me up to speed about 2015?
Daniel, I just finished my crow and it was delicious. Now the rest of the crows will have no one to warn them of oncoming traffic. http://www.feminist.org/other/dv/dvfact.html
The good news though, for me anyway, is that I will not have to try to find a skirt nor will I need high heels to try to walk in through the mud, so I would say it turned out reasonably well for me.
Roger, I ask Steve all kinds of questions and one thing we do have in common is we are against the oligarchy that runs Mitchell. You are part of the Democratic establishment club. I am for Democrats and Republicans that are not part of the party elite. It’s much easier being part of the club, but that’s not how I roll. I went to a college that didn’t allow fraternities or sororities. They weren’t allowed because it demonstrated elitism. Everybody had a voice and everybody was treated fairly. My children have been pressured to join a fraternity but they have yet to succumb. Hang in there boy’s.
Here is where we are in South Dakota regarding the treatment of our women, pretty damn sad http://www.sdcedsv.org/information/domesticviolenceinformation-1/
Tara,
I owe you a big apology, I’m sorry to having even engaged you in conversation in the first place. I’m sorry.
If Mitchell voters have any sanity at all, they will dismiss you and Sibson for positions on the school board, hopefully they will see what I see, bores and nuisances.
If you talk to Sibson so frequently why are so thin skinned and won’t make comments on his blog. Do you fear too close an association with him?
“In the final analysis, our chances for violent victimization are more controlled by what we do than by who we are.” http://www.crimeinamerica.net/2010/12/13/what-are-my-chances-of-being-a-victim-of-violent-crime/
Jerry,
Good find and outing of Daniel and his statistics, that was amusing.
In this day and age we can find nearly any damn thing to prove our point, even if it is outdated and has proven to be false.
Roger, you sound like a Republican in disguise. Sibson and I are running against the Republican establishment who are part of the Mitchell Oligarchy. You are a prime example as to why the Democrat Party is dead in SD. You are a Republican/Democrat want-to-be. So instead of supporting Independent candidates that are for the Teachers and Taxpayers, you are a sell out to the party establishment. Shame on you Mr. Want To Be.
Wow Roger, I am very disappointed in you that you are a sell out to the Mitchell Oligarchy. Did you buy your seat next to the banks and Bruce Yackley for the new “Tosh Mohall” thank you by the taxpayers of Mitchell. You don’t care about people…..it’s all about party…so sad.
Democrats George McGovern and Rod Hall are my Hero’s. They are truly for the people. Rod Hall got crucified by people like Roger C. Rod and George are the reasons I am running against the establishment. George and I have a bond no one can break.
Jerry didn’t prove me wrong at all. If anything, he has supported my position since women are more likely to be victims of people they know, rather than random strangers. It makes more sense for men to use an alias.
From his 1st link:
“Although men are more likely to be victims of violent crime overall, a recent study by the U.S. Department of Justice reports that “intimate partner violence is primarily a crime against women.”
From his 2nd link:
“Sex: Males are victimized more than females, but not by much (18.4 vs. 15.8) per thousand. There are big differences per crime category; more men are victims of robbery and serious assault, the rates for simple assault are virtually identical, more women are raped.”
Maybe both Roger and Jerry can take the same comprehension class.
Change the subject. Roger, I dare you to come out against the great George McGovern who encouraged me to run for the Legislature. Go for it Roger! McGovern supported his friend, Tara Volesky? Let’s go against our Hero George McGovern? You are an idiot!!!!!
Tara,
As it happens, I was working George McGovern campaigns when you were still in diapers with a stump stuck in your mouth. My bond and my families bond has always been unbreakable, when he said “I need your help”, we helped.
With each of your utterances Tara, you slide into your well of ignorance, if you keep sliding no will be able to save you, not even yourself.
Mitchell politics is not on my radar, I don’t have a vote there so could care less what the hell they do.
It has always been my belief that school board candidates run for office to provide better schools, better education for the children and livable wages for teachers.
When was the “fighting Mitchell obligatory” a good reason to run for school board. Hell, why don’t you and Steve include abortion, the NRA, and women’s rights in your campaigns?
Is that your third or fourth reference to the Mitchell Tosh Mohall? It was only slightly amusing once.
I’m a Democrat Tara, a big and proud one, I am not part of the machine or establishment that you think is working against you, I’m simply a Democrat because they consistently follow my political ideology. You or no one else can tell me that is wrong and I will make to apology for it.
You and Sibson are not running for the school board for any other reason that it fits your big fat egos. My sympathy lies with the citizens, and particularly the children, should either of you be elected.
Daniel, you should not be so bold to speak about English comprehension. I know that from your last name you post, English is not your mother tongue. But I wrote to you that I was eating that shitty crow and it was all good. You are partially right as there are way to many violence against women acts that are not reported, but why split hairs. As I write, there are many women getting beaten to a pulp by their men and it will not be reported. I am willing to digest the shitty crow if you will kindly allow me that so it will pass, else, I may be forced to regurgitate it, that means puke it.
Roger, you didn’t spend the time I did personally with George McGovern during his final years. He was my neighbor, and we spent numerous hours discussing SD politics. I let him drive me up to the SD State Fair knowing he probably didn’t have a drivers license. He was 89 years old, and I said George I will drive…He said Tara, I was a bomber pilot and look at my reflexes, I can handled it. I said, ok George, go for it. He got me up to the fair and we had a great time, but one of our son’s drove us back. You are still and idiot and an angry man Roger. You are a prime reason the Democrat Party is in shambles. I side with McGovern. He knew and he knows people like you are toxic for the Party.
Change your diaper Tara, you’re getting s—-y.
Something I’m still trying to learn after sixty plus years, Tara. “Respect”, even if the person possibly or probably doesn’t deserve it.
I admire your spunk and I admire Sib whether I agree or not. At least he is in the arena, something that cannot be said for many.
Les. sorry, people like Roger make me sick, I only wish George were alive today. George would whip that man into shape. It is now a free for all with no respect to George McGovern. McGovern would not be happy that people like Roger Cornelius, Lynn and other DFP would sell their sole to the Republican establishment of Mitchell SD. Mitchell SD marginalized Senator McGovern. They won’t even consider naming a school after him. FYI, he did graduate from Mitchell High School. He got harassed up until his final days. He still lived in his home town even though the majority of people were against him. RIP George. I will never win school board because I wear your tee shirt in public.
” I will never win school board because I wear your tee shirt in public.” Don’t expect to with that kind of attitude. A tee shirt? Really? Please don’t tell the voters you are a Democrat with that kind of give up attitude.
Sorry Jerry, it’s not attitude, it’s reality. If you are a McGovernik, you can’t win in Mitchell. That’s ok, I would rather lose, than sell out to the Oligarchy.
IF, and that’s a big IF, George McGovern encouraged Tara Volesky to run for any public office it only proves one thing, that even in his brilliance Senator McGovern was capable of making mistakes.
Somewhere in Tara’s imagination she thinks I said something about our great Senator McGovern, I’m looking for that and so should Tara.
Tara’s inconsistent political ideology is baffling, first she comes on to a “True Liberal Blog” and hurls insult after insult against them, and turns around and claims to be a believer in George McGovern and Bernie Sanders.
I’ve observed that she does not go on the Republican blogs and spout her twisted logic, or lack thereof.
Tara has no balance or consistency, I only hope the good people of Mitchell pay attention to that on election day.
Sorry to all for my part in letting this become a TARA VOLESKY thread and not discussing more about the racist Rapid City nurse and anonymous commenters.
BOSWORTH
Tara – I also knew Mr McGovern quite well. I think it’s awfully presumptuous of you to condemn my friend Roger in the late Senator’s name. Please stop.
Roger, go for it. You are free to express whatever you want and exploit the Senator because McGovern is not able to defend himself since he is deceased. You are still a jerk.
Curt, Shut up.
George McGovern wouldn’t approve of either party, Tara, as many of us don’t.
The pubs understand that. The reason for Corey Browns attempts to throttle the Indies.
They are also worried that, wonder of all wonders the Dems may actually get smart enough to tag team the GOP primaries. Nah, I think it’s just the pain meds I’m on.
News flash to Tara, if Mitchell voters were to see your antics, you would be damn lucky to get 10 votes, including your relatives. Hang on to that tee shirt though, it represented a fine man that helped me when I needed it many years ago.
You are so right Les????? McGovern would be applaud at comments coming from Cornelius and Curt
Jerry, I don’t give a damn if I get 10 votes. I would rather tell the truth and die than kiss ass and win.
Atta girl, go get’um. I am sure that all of those involved in the racism portion of this thread are breathing a sigh of relief that we have (me too) decided to give them a pass.
Jerry, thanks, but I am running against the good old boys. I don’t care what Roger C. has to say because he isn’t a taxpayer of Mitchell that happens to pay the second highest property taxes in SD. Roger is a party elitist. People like Roger who buy into elitism will never win. The democrats need to support the common folk and people who fight against the powers that be. Roger has endorsed the Republican establishment of Mitchell by not supporting candidates like me who are for teachers, local control, and for the taxpayers. Roger, you need to give Dr. Graves a call and give him your support. Thanks to people like you Roger, the Democrat Party is Dead. RIP SDDP.
Jerry,
There may be hope that Mitchell will be spared from Tara after all.
If she is running he campaign for school board the same way she ran the Myers/what’s her name campaign for governor, she doesn’t stand a chance of winning.
Tara calling me an ass, an idiot, or telling Curt to shut up simply demonstrates Tara’s limited intellect.
Tara always follows a pattern in these discussions where she inevitably tells some to call so and so and ask them something, she did it with this Graves fellow, I don’t have a clue who this guy is and have no reason to call him.
Tara has all this rhetoric and uses buzz words and is totally lacking in substance, she does not tell us details of the obligatory she is fighting or how being on the school board in Mitchell will fight obligatory. She just says it.
Hey Curt, nice to hear from you, its been awhile.
You are right, Tara using the good name of Senator McGovern to fight her inane campaign is shameful and shows great disrespect for the man.
Tara seems to think that I am some kind of closet Republican but cannot state any evidence of that. Republicans have been gunning for me for over four decades and counting.
If anyone is a Republican it is Tara masking herself as an independent. Why else would she come on a liberal blog and attack liberals?
Yes Roger, and Curt who ever you are, you are both idiots. Just write a letter to the editor against me and get on the band wagon with Bruce Yackley, CEO of Trail King and company who have purchased VIP seats for the Tosh Mohall that will
be built and paid for by yours truly, the taxpayers of Mitchell. I would throw both of you out of the party……..Traders…………..You do not represent the common folk.
Roger and Curt, send your checks to Mitchell Development Corporation, or the rubber stamp club committee against teachers and taxpayers of Mitchell. The Democrat Party will never change until they start putting people over party and quit enabling the Roger Cornelius’s of the State.
For the record. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taj_Mahal
I can’t help myself.
trader: one who trades, or exchanges goods for money, goods or other valuable consideration
traitor: a person who betrays a friend, country or principle
A traitor could make a trade in exchange for a betrayal.
Mike from Iowa, your Missouri example isn’t a reason not to use one’s full name in social media. Your example is a reason for married men not to flirt with their college interns.
Bill, your statement about Oliva’s comments not justifying ruining her career raises a good point, which Nick acknowledges well: How long should Oliva have to sit out? How long should a racist outburst cost an individual her livelihood? Would it be a more appropriate punishment for Rapid City Regional to keep Oliva on staff but require her to undergo some anti-racism training? Or if firing is appropriate, when should the punishment end?
Recall that, after Madison High School fired me for “poor performance and unprofessional conduct,” I was hired by Montrose for the immediately following school year.
Jenny asks a reasonable question about who’s a victim of crime more often, women or men. Recall the 2014 South Dakota crime report that I wrote up a couple weeks ago. According to page 38 of that report, 365 females were victims of rape in South Dakota in 2014; 13 males were raped.
Kidnapping/abduction victims: 85 female, 41 male.
Statutory rape: 102 female, 19 male.
Fondling victims: 235 female, 54 male.
Aggravated assault: 720 female, 770 male.
Simple assault: 3,499 female, 2,541 male.
Intimidation: 569 female, 273 male.
Males are more often victims of most categories of theft/burglary/larceny.
Total victims for South Dakota in 2014: 13,067 female, 12,845 male.
I find caution in the use of one’s name online a much more practical, inexpensive, and likely effective way to avoid harm than carrying a firearm.
OK Nick, you couldn’t help yourself. lol……excuse me for my error again…. I stand corrected. Traitor, I meant to say. Thank you. I really tried hard to find people to run for school board. I didn’t want to do it, but it’s almost impossible to get anybody to run for anything anymore. And Lynn you don’t have to change your party affiliation to vote for my opponents. The Republican establishment is alive and well in Mitchell. lol. I would call the new FAC the Crown Palace. Can someone pull up the picture please? My technical skills are a D-. Remember……it’s for the CHILDREN! Oh and by the way Roger…….George McGovern begged me to run for the Legislature……..which I didn’t. At least I know George would vote for me because he was a true Democrat.
Jerry’s comment about men’s victim mentality gets me thinking about the victim mentality that may lie behind some of the angry responses from Oliva’s defenders. Some white folks get mad and try to equate Oliva’s actions with the angry outbursts of some American Indians. They reject the idea that racism is not a perfect two-way street, that racism includes the power dynamic, because acknowledging that difference means acknowledging white privilege. The privileged class doesn’t want to give up its privilege. It’s embarrassing to admit we benefit from privilege, and it makes us feel like victims to have to give it up.
That’s what the complaining about “political correctness” is really about. Efforts to change the privileged majority’s language and behavior are efforts to correct that privilege, that power imbalance that oppresses the minority.
Cory, it would appear that women are much more likely to be a victim of violent crime. In the theft/burglary/larceny category where males are more likely to be victims could this be because in cases, where for example a family home is broken into, the husband is listed as the person making the report and the contact person for the police? If so this practice would tend to artificially inflate the percent of male victims.
Tara, Sibby does not “write articles” about Roger and me. He is engaged in an ongoing defamation campaign, attempting to grab search engine attentions with outlandish accusations of ill-doing. His campaign verges into unhealthy obsession which distracts him from much more important targets. I am annoyed to see Roger’s and my names smeared in such a morass of words with no constructive value in public discourse.
As Roger says, Sibby’s blog is mostly fiction. Even when he strings together kernels of accurate of information, he so buries them with wild conspiracy theories and codewords that 99.99% of South Dakotans will stop reading after a few sentences. Yet Tara, you come here and tell me that I should dismiss Roger Cornelius as an idiot and open the comment section to Sibson’s audience-repelling monologues? That mad criticism, Tara, indicates you clearly are focused on some strange personal agenda of bashing people who won’t follow you down your rabbit holes. Roger has vast experience and wisdom, worth consulting in any discussion of race relations and political action in South Dakota. Sibson has some research skills that have been lost in useless rage and rambling.
I’m sorry, I can barely stand to get through the Tara drama thread. Tara makes it feel like some days subbing with an unruly student. We try to correct her, and she lashes out in some new way each time. There comes a point where I realize that further words will not correct a student’s misbehavior. Perhaps that was the thought process that went through the minds of the folks in charge of Rapid City Regional when they reviewed Oliva’s situation. They saw egregious misbehavior, they saw harm to the people around her in their work setting, and they decided it was best not to engage Oliva in further conversation but to simply tell her to leave.
Tara, I don’t want to kick you out permanently, any more than we should banish Oliva permanently from the workforce and doom her to lifelong poverty. But if Oliva were to continue engage in public speech like the speech that got her fired this week, her next employer would surely fire her, too. If you keep coming here and turning comment threads into outbursts of insults (and review the record, Tara: this is what you do every time), we’ll have to “fire” you from participation in public discourse.
That might be the Tara’s goal. I really would like to have a discussion on Nurse Olivia but find it hard to do so wading through the unrelated drama.
http://juanitajean.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/wpcbe150513.jpg
White privilege?
Agreed, Nick. Tara’s on time-out. Let’s drop the drama and get back to the topic.
Mr. Nemec, In my opinion, we should revisit what Cory wrote and especially this:
“They reject the idea that racism is not a perfect two-way street, that racism includes the power dynamic, because acknowledging that difference means acknowledging white privilege. The privileged class doesn’t want to give up its privilege. It’s embarrassing to admit we benefit from privilege, and it makes us feel like victims to have to give it up.”
Most of my life, I have been trying to figure why there is such a gap between us regarding racial issues. I read this earlier, stopped for some time to think about it, the perfect storm has been seen. Now, what to do about it?
Tara has indicated that Mitchell is controlled by “Republican establishment” and that the reason she can’t win is because she isn’t a part of the group.
Perhaps Tara should ask Mel Olson how he has been so succesful in Mitchell and South Dakota politics. Not only was he elected to the SD House of Representatives and the SD Senate in the past, but he has also been elected (and currently serves) as a member of the Mitchell City Council. In case you’re not aware, Olson is a Democrat and has served in various positions within the party including Assistant Minority Leader during his time in Pierre.
With all due respect to Tara, her association to a particular political party (or lack thereof) has nothing to do with her inability to be elected. The fact she might wear a specific shirt, or the fact she knew and respected the late Senator McGovern also has nothing to do with it. Instead, it boils down to one’s qualifications and temperment for the job at hand. When I see Tara get angry and start calling others fools, cowards, idiots, etc. or blatantly telling them to shut up, it proves that Tara is not of the proper mindset to be elected to any public position.
In my opinion, a public servant needs to respect the opinions of the public even if he or she doesn’t agree with them. They should not lash out nor stoop to the level of a gradeschool child tossing names and insults, but instead should work to bring the conversation up to a level where adults can have disagreements but still make progress. That is as much of an art as it is a science, and although I personally don’t see those qualities in Tara, perhaps the average Mitchell voter will.
However, much like Ryane Oliva, I do hope Tara can learn from her prior statements and I also hope that in the end the reaction to her words will make her a better, stronger, more aware person. I don’t wish for comments being made today to hurt someone’s potential decades into the future if that person has taken steps to improve themselves and if they have made sincere progress to better themselves as a person.
I would also suggest one of the primary reason’s Tara won’t succeed politically is because she has already admitted defeat. She has stated or suggested on several occasions that she won’t win and then she proceeds to make excuses on why that may be the case. Voters don’t generally support candidates who don’t even feel they have a chance, and people respect confidence. They want to support a person who will fight instead of someone who gives up half way through. This is why we so often see politicians making speeches about how they are going to win an election even when ever available poll suggests they are 20 points behind. Are they lying to themselves? Perhaps – but one thing is certain and that is that they present confidence in themselves and confidence in their platforms.
It also probably helps to have a strong platform beyond being against a single project, and when saying you want to increase teacher salaries it probably helps to explain how you anticipate doing so (people love specifics)… but above all else you just need to listen to the people. Not just some of the people and not just those who share the same view on an issue… but ALL of the people.
Remember – it’s impossible to learn what you think you already know.
Excellent point Craig “Are they lying to themselves?” I wonder about that too in general terms especially regarding racism. What is it that may have happened to this young lady in the firestorm that made her go off? She was clearly being made the fool of by those who filmed it as you can hear cackling in the background. What happens?
Looks and sounds to me like she was pretty drunk. Mind dulled to the lizard layer where xenophobia reigns and some people will eat their own arms off. I’d be real surprised to learn she was sober.
I heard it was taken shortly after her sister was hospitalized after being assaulted by a group of NAs. Not trying to justify her actions one bit, nor do I know if it is true. Emotional states can play into our decision making.
True, and we all have to learn to control our emotional states… or at least refrain from making public comment or commanding a starship when overwhelmed by our emotions. (See also Starfleet Regulation 619.)
http://juanitajean.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/crmra150512.jpg
Let the speaker/writer/poster/blogger beware.
It was important for Regional to fire Oliva, the hospital not only serves Rapid City but the region which included the reservations, tribal members are referred to Regional with regularity for services not provided by IHS. Regardless of Oliva’s professional capabilities, she would be a constant lightening rod. Can you imagine an encounter between her and an Indian when they recognized here name and her racial outburst?
But, can racism be overcome? The short answer is yes. I’ll use myself as an example
During the Indian uprising of the 60’s and 70’s and the founding of AIM many young Natives and elders alike responded to racism with hate, I was one of them. I hated everything that was white. I was involved in protests and demonstrations all around the country and spewed my hate.
Fortunately for me I learned early on of my white ancestry, my grandfather was a white farmer/rancher from Iowa, he was a hard worker that provided for his family of 11 children. He was an Indian advocate even before the term came about. He was vocal when the government tried to take advantage of the tribe or tribal members, tribal leaders consulted with him on a regular basis to understand the “white mind”.
Now, how could I hate all white people with people like my grandfather loving the Lakota people that accepted him.
As I learned more, my words and actions changed almost immediately.
I no longer look at white people as the enemy, I look at specific people and their words and actions that are racist.
There are a couple of racist bloggers here on Dakota Free Press that I tangle with regularly because of their racist comments and their condemnation of the lifestyle of the Lakota.
How long should Oliva’s punishment be and should she be forgiven? She offered a lame apology on the local news, apologized on Facebook and made excuses for her family being attacked by Indians. (I have yet to see any police reports, court documents or other evidence of this attack).
Steve Allender’s history was racism is another matter. He too has apologized for his words and actions saying it happened a long time ago, but with candidates for public office, you have to wonder if this was done only for political expediency. At one point he proudly stated that his father was the most racist man in the state. How deep are Allender’s racist roots. To date he has not convinced me that he has changed for the better.
The Allender’s and Oliva’s of this state are in their own prison, it is up to them to earn their parole or be granted a public pardon.