Trump Back to Saying Terrorists Wage War on Civilization

Permit me a moment to think about Donald Trump’s words far harder than Donald Trump ever will.

Last Sunday, Donald Trump told leaders of Muslim nations that there is no war of civilizations:

This is not a battle between different faiths, different sects, or different civilizations. This is a battle between barbaric criminals who seek to obliterate human life, and decent people of all religions who seek to protect it [Donald Trump, speech to leaders of 50+ Muslim countries, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, as transcribed by CNN, 2017.05.21].

This Friday, responding to another terrorist attack on Coptic Christians in Egypt, Donald Trump threw our the not and resumed his rhetoric about war on civilizations:

Terrorists are engaged in a war against civilization, and it is up to all who value life to confront and defeat this evil….

Civilization is at a precipice—and whether we climb or fall will be decided by our ability to join together to protect all faiths, all religions, and all innocent life. No matter what, America will do what it must to protect its people [Donald Trump, statement, 2017.05.26].

For Donald Trump, words are mere accessories, thrown on like his too-long neckties to tickle and exaggerate his manhood. Looking for logical consistency in such fire-and-forget blurts is an oral fixation not worth pursuing.

I’ll offer this one faint attempt at finding some consistency in Trump’s civilization/war statements. Trump’s words still contradict the thesis of Clare Lopez and his anti-Muslim base, who contend that the Muslim Brotherhood is waging civilization jihad to replace Western civilization with Islamic civilization. However, when he said there is no war between civilizations, he did not logically exclude the possibility that there are extra-civilizational evildoers who are trying to tear down the whole idea of civilization. These two statements five days apart thus allow Trump to cling to the rhetorical position that we face a battle not of civilization versus civilization but of all civilizations versus anarchy.

But there I go again, putting far more thought into Donald Trump’s words than he himself puts into them.

119 Responses to Trump Back to Saying Terrorists Wage War on Civilization

  1. Angela Merkel now says that the US is unreliable as a partner. Geesh, what an incredible disappointment for the Democratic experiment begun in 1776. All empires must fall it seems, but this one, so far in such a short time frame, has been spectacular. As a veteran, on this Memorial Day weekend, it is deplorable to consider the complete failure.….socialflow_twitter

    In just a few months we have fallen to depths that only Putin could dream of happening to the United States. We are now seen by who we put in the White House and those who support him. Thanks NOem, Thune and EB5 guy, thanks for your continuing support of Putin’s coup. In the meantime, there are the holiday sales events. Enjoy while you can.

  2. Donald Pay

    Whether or not Trump understands it, his new rhetoric is consistent with Bush, Obama and just about the entire foreign policy establishment, which doesn’t view current problems as a “war of civilizations.” What is at odds with the new rhetoric are his own policies regarding travel bans. I prefer to judge Trump by actions, because he doesn’t understand his words or reality. If actions followed the words, he would be withdrawing his travel ban executive orders, or revising them to reflect the actual terrorist threats.

  3. Don Coyote

    @cah:”… thrown on like his too-long neckties to tickle and exaggerate his manhood.”

    Slob Obama wore his ties too long as well, way past his belt. At least The Donald takes the time to tie a half windsor knot while Obama used the pedestrian four-in-hand knot to show how he was one with the hoi polloi.–but-it-wont-make-a-dent-in-mass-incarceration.jpg

  4. mike from iowa

    Obama was beyond competent for the job and the tie. Drumpf? The dumbest SOB ever to set foot in the White House and the least competent ever. Paint on the walls has a higher IQ than dirt bag Donnie.

    Can’t wait for Drumpf to be forced to lie under oath. Wingnut’s heads will vaporize.

  5. happy camper

    Trump is a mouth, but if you want more thoughtful assessments of this problem, listen to those who are more personally exposed and knowledgeable, like Haras Rafiq from Quilliam, a London-based left-leaning think tank that focuses specifically against Islamism:

  6. Porter Lansing

    Haras Rafiq from Quilliam, is NOT a valid London-based left-leaning think tank. Quilliam and Haras Rafiq are white supremacists. Happy Camper is a proven liar and should not be accessed, referenced or believed as a valid opinion on Islam.

  7. True that Porter, happy searches the right wing sites to identify them as left and then tries to preach from that soap box. Happy is the perfect pawn for Putin boys.

  8. Porter Lansing

    I know it, Jerry. He’s one of many white supremacists that post here; afraid to self identify. Like disease ridden roaches, they run when exposed.

  9. Me, I had hoped that trump was serious when he said that he would end the hostilities in his first 100 days with the “terrorists”. I know that I could. First, I would do like George W. Bush did in Iraq, pay them to stop. Best use of taxpayer money ever in fighting terrorism. I would have announced that at the get go and then stood down.

    Here is a former US Marine combat vet and his push to prove the point that poverty makes recruitment of terrorists a slam dunk

    We are never going to kill them all or even a small fraction of them. As a world, we must all work together to find the solutions to feed the people, all of them. We have the resources here in the US to do just that. Instead, we get bogged down in a phony scheme called the Farm Bill that does little if anything to alleviate the misery of both the producer and those whose lives we could change. Get smart or else we continue to destroy ourselves trying to destroy them, like a snake devouring itself starting at its tail.

  10. Roger Cornelius

    Obviously this foreign tour was a Jekyl and Hyde performance by Trump. He speaks to Muslim countries and tries to make nice and than goes to Italy and the G-7 conference and degrades our allies.
    Now he is back to claiming that Muslims terrorists are fighting a war about civilization, now that he lied to those Muslim countries that presented him with an orb to kiss and bow to those same countries will not be happy with him.
    President Bush and President Obama both recognized that the war on terror would be an enduring war and concentrated their efforts in fighting terrorism and not religion and ideology.
    I reject Happy and the religion right that this is a war against civilization and wanting to spread radical/Islamist to make us bow to Sharia Law.
    This an American war about fear, period. Trump is provoking Muslims to act against us so he can have the war he desperately wants.
    The last few days I binged watch Season 4 of House of Cards in anticipation for the release of Season 5 on Tuesday and found that fictional President Underwood was the role model for Trump. Uncerwood’s brash behavior, arrogance, and recklessness is a perfect template for the Trump presidency.

  11. Trump trying to piggyback on W’s war messaging might actually work IF Trump let another terrorist attack happen, IF his family values were remotely similar to W’s (or a rural person’s), and IF Trump wasn’t thumbing his nose at the free-market by doing things like banning German imports.

    Trump is proof that Republicans don’t actually have core values – only flavors of the month.

  12. Astute observations, Mr. C. Your binging has paid off.

  13. happy camper

    They are willing to fight and die for a greater cause because of ideology. You can listen to an ex-jihadist explain this on BBC, or are you so sure you know more than they do? That’s like some white guy saying he understands the Native experience better than you.

  14. Porter Lansing

    This bigot posting above has been “radicalized” from hate speech websites.
    – The same is true of the Quilliam Foundation and its self-appointed “sheikhs” – it is an oppressive, tyrannical group towards the Muslim community that has tried to undermine Islamic theology, seeking to create confusion, suspicion and mischief for the sake of lining their pockets by demonising the Muslim community, and creating a fear of “extremism” which sanctions legitimate Islamic views for the purposes of government funding and BBC television appearances.

  15. Whatever Trump says, and however he words it, Republicans will force themselves believe it in just that way – for now. It’s REAL SIMPLE: if it tests well with the folks who think/thought Obama wasn’t born in America, then he will say it. He’s got all kinds of message testing mechanisms out there, and even when spundbytes contradict each other, he will speak them both. He needs his base for basic PR survival right now as even though the world’s crashing down on him, his believers are still willing to fight and die for him. That’s all he’s got left.

    The last thing I’d do right now is listen to a Republican about Islam or fighting terror after what they and their voters supported after 911 including Iraq.

  16. happy camper

    Oh Adam, after 9-11 the decision to invade Iraq was supported by Democrats and Hillary Clinton. Saying Republicans all think the same is like saying all Democrats think the same, or all Muslims. This is exactly how a logical debate gets off track, by saying all people of a certain group think and act the same. When it comes to terrorism generalizations cannot be made because we are talking about a very small minority, but nonetheless, it’s not bigotry to look for those causes.

  17. happy camper

    I hope that NPR is not too right wing for some commenters, but it’s worth noting they report:

    These young people “self-radicalized.” They were searching for meaning in their lives and found it through friends who shared their idealism. ISIS recruiters promised them glory, adventure, and purpose – things that appeal to many young people.

    They also report mental illness is not the cause: But many social scientists say nihilism—characterized by a rejection of morality and an indifference to human life—falls short in explaining what drives terrorists. Mental illness and religious fanaticism, two other explanations often used to explain why terrorists sacrifice their families, their futures, and their own lives, also fall short.

  18. Wondered where you were Roger, I have not seen this series and I know when I start, I will watch them all. If you want to know about where the next batch of terror will come from, look no further than just south of us in the southern heart of trump country.

  19. trump just supplied Saudi Arabia with billions in sophisticated weaponry designed especially for its proxy war in Yemen. The Arabs will be using the weaponry that we supplied, who do you think the victims will blame for what is going on there? These people are starving to death. They will fight for who feeds them and who pays them. It is ridiculous not to be able to see how that worked in Iraq dealing with the Sunni insurgents. In the meantime, 17 million face starvation I am thinking that there will be many young folks in Yemen that will answer the call for terror as a matter of vengeance. Great for the military industrial complex, but bad on innocent westerners who are not so innocent.

  20. Mr. camper, that is the way of many of the libbies who blog here. They often throw all Republicans or all men with hair or all fat people into the same basket of thinking. It is a trait of many. I appreciate your wisdom and that you and I can be conservatives but not of the exact same category or ilk on every issue.

  21. Great link happy, proves the point of extreme poverty as the root. Show starving Arabs or any people of color to potential cadre and there ya go. Toss in a little of your hatred towards Muslims and bingo, they can see clearly that you could care less about their belly or their well being, you hate them. Hate begets hate and we are off to the races.

    Solve the root cause of terror, extreme poverty and you can solve the problem. trump is wrong, civilization is waging war on civilians. Though rarely admitted, we in the civilized world kill more unarmed civilians than the terrorists do. I am not talking about armed combatants battling one another, I am talking about the indiscriminate killing of unarmed civilians that are viewed as collateral damage. What a term. Food in the belly keeps the recruitment to nil. Why fight when you are full?

  22. Let me guess, as usual, them dang gone Islams hate us for our freedom. Fight ’em over there or fight ’em over here. When you guys talk about a grave and gathering threat, no one should listen eat that poopoo ever again. You guys blew your own credibility on those issues by initiating the destsbilization of the Middle East over phony WMDs, and then you blamed it on Obama 9 years after the fact.

  23. Mr. grudznick, I mean no harm to you for being a republican and wish you well with your hair, be careful with that fat belly though…many problems with that for a young feller little alone a gent that is long in the tooth, less gravy…etc. Not all republicans are the same, the ones I speak of are in the cult called tribal republican. You are not one of them but you do know who they are.

  24. Thank you for your comment and wishes, Mr. jerry. I am hoping for the best with my hair as well. I do spend my considerable free time focusing my concentration on growing out hair but it seems to result in unintended outcomes.

  25. happy camper

    One of the things I’ve learned here Grutz is that being partisan is just a huge mistake. I can look back, though I don’t want to, at posts from when I saw myself as a liberal and immediately jumped to conclusions about horrible Republicans. Though I’m still a registered Democrat I feel the labels are unhelpful. To be honest you seem the most reasonable poster time and again, though not always. You were too forgiving of the Montana guy over there at DWC where I like to read comments now and then, but you seem to share a solid grasp that some liberals have moved away from their core beliefs. Cory aptly described it as unbounded tolerance.

  26. Roger Cornelius

    Excellent point about poverty Jerry, since the start of 2017 there have been 5 murders on the Pine Ridge Reservation home of one most impoverished counties in America, I’m certain that the poverty and drug use is the primary cause of the violence.
    Donald Trump promised his base that within 30 days of his inaugural he would have a plane in place to eradicate terrorism, to date there is no plan and terrorist killed multiple citizens in Manchester, England.
    If Trump would concentrate on fighting terrorism, as he promised, we wouldn’t need to have these pointless debates about civilization, religion, and ideology.
    Trump does not want to win the war on terrorism, he wants the help of Happy Camper to spread fear and hopefully invoke a war so those Saudis can use all those weapons Trump supplied him with.

  27. happy, npr has been drastically diluted by corporate republic money, power and subversion and is extremely hampered in delivering real news without bias, having listened extensively for 30 some years. pathetic. faux news and rush Limbaugh have done more damage to the nation, as is quite clear for all now

  28. sydicates like APM which does BBC (oddly), patronizing market place, and many other NPR programs are stealthily slanted.

    republicans have no ethics and are complete corporate capitalistic shills. read this for example, for a progressive, liberal democratic outlook:

  29. grudz is a perfect example of republican doublespeak spin.

  30. I am indeed the most reasonable person at most every breakfast discussion, although perhaps you are right that I was too forgiving of that Montana fellow. One of my faults is being too forgiving.

  31. Thanks Roger, on an historical note. As you know, the Great Sioux Uprising or Dakota War that started around St. Cloud, Minnesota, was the direct result of starvation at the hands of the empowered. Many families that scattered from that poverty caused war ended up with the tribes of the North Eastern part of South Dakota as well as Cheyenne River Country. Yes, Indians have seen how the brunt of cruelly inflicted extreme poverty works up close in person.

  32. “Careful, Democrats, don’t be too partisan or you might go too far.” -Sayith the most hyperbolic conservatives over the years who think Democrats want to kill babies, the gays are ruining straight marriages, and Libbies are weak on terror.

    It’s also about time some one FINALLY told you to shove that weak on terror garbage straight up your ass.

    Republicans understand Islam and terroism like they ‘understand’ the fake news stories about how Anthony Weiner is going to reveal evidence on how Hillary murdered that DNC staffer.

  33. Greg "Comrade" Deplorable

    This is just an honest question but why do liberals feel the need to “go to bat” for Islam/muslims all the time? It isn’t like it is reciprocated overseas. When you think about ideals such as tolerance, equality, women’s rights, LGTB freedom and such are all destroyed under countries that are governed under strict Islamic rule. You’d get literally thrown off a building for supporting such ideas.

  34. As Mr. grudznick was saying, painting all republicans as one is not where we should be. Here is from Huffington Post on the three men who stoop up to racist, anti Islam hate

    Just 3 ordinary guys. The older of the three being a Republican who ran for public office not as a Republican but as himself. Retired military man with 4 kids. Murdered, defending young girls whose religion put them in danger here in the United States of America.

    The other young man, a kind hearted soul who studied economics and religion. Murdered, defending young girls whose religion put them in danger here in the United States of America.

    The third is a young man who survived barely. A poet who wrote of condemning Muslim hate. Wounded severely, defending young girls whose religion put them in danger here in the United States of America.

    As we think of Memorial Day, can we at least think of what this country has now become? How can we not see the terrible damage that has been self inflicted upon this great land of promise. How can we tolerate what we now see as just another day in the life of America, that we are so callous as to attack those whose only crime is the religion they have chosen. Are we really a Nation Under God? Are we really even a nation any more? The time has come for a gut check do we really want to remain silent like our president to the outlandish actions of the racially hateful? For far to long we have tolerated the misery of those of us who are so poor and neglected that they have given up. We have tolerated the fact of denying the right to vote because it is known that the now victors would never be in that position if it were done fairly and legitimately. This is not the way you can even begin to say United States, for now, that is simply not true.

    You do not win happy, your fear and hatred is your own cross to bear. You and yours are the problem now with nothing to offer for a solution.

    Remember those who have fallen for this country. They fell with the idea of a better tomorrow for all in the world, not just the Evangelical White man, but for all.

  35. So what terrorists. The real assault on civilization is happening right here in ‘Merica. That we cannot (and yea, refuse) to acknowledge the least among us, provide our citizens with healthcare and a reasonable education and put a dollar value on evertything speaks volumes on our ability and/or readiness to move “civilization” forward. We are exactly what we deserve.

  36. Buckobear, I am with ya. Republicans want everyone to believe Obama ruined a perfectly good health care system when it has been conserva-willingness to address problems in the system – for over 50 years – that has been the problem ALL ALONG.

  37. Greg, I don’t know to whom you’re directing your “honest question,” but it’s not to me or to the thesis of this post. I’m critiquing Trump’s thoughtless use of language. I’m not batting for Islam or any other religion with theocratic, oppressive tendencies.

  38. Roger Cornelius

    Deplorable asks an honest question that deserves an honest answer.
    No one should ever condone the strict fundamental laws of Muslim/Islamic laws and I haven’t seen a liberal here defend them.
    When talking about the horrible acts of violence by fundamental Islamics toward LGBT’s, women, the mutilation of female genitalia and equal rights we often fail to look in the mirror at America itself.
    America is one of the last countries that still practices the barbaric Christian endorsed act of capital punishment, just as the fundamentalist Islamic countries do.
    It has taken generations to finally get equal rights laws passed into law while many Christian churches still openly object to gay rights and same-sex marriage.
    As Jerry aptly points out two innocent men in Portland sacrificed their lives in defense of innocent girls by a known White Supremacist.
    American women are still ridiculed and attempts continue to legislate women healthcare even thought abortion has been legal for decades.
    As we move down the list of how women are treated in America we must include the daily acts of domestic violence perpetuated against women and girls that we as males are assigned to protect.
    Rape continues to be a serious problem in this country and often times goes unsolved or ignored and when prosecuted it is often a slap on the wrist.
    And, right here in South Dakota, we are considered to be one of the most racist states in the country on par with Mississippi.
    You don’t have to be a conservative or liberal to defend the human rights of Muslims, condemn the barbaric acts of Sharia of Law if you must, but you should condemn the barbaric acts of Christianity as well.

  39. Well put Roger. Greg, what countries are you speaking of that are strict Islamic Rule. Would that be Saudi Arabia with no vote on anything? You surely cannot be discussing Iran, the Iran that has Jewish representation in its government as well as Christian and Women!!

    So who are these strict Islamic ruled countries and what are there relationships with America?

  40. Quick question Greg, how many members of the Jewish faith are in both houses that belong to the republican party? In Iran, they have you beaten man

  41. Porter Lansing

    Well put, Roger. That’s so special. One of the deplorables trying to understand liberalism. Does anyone think he’s serious?

  42. Greg "Comrade" Deplorable

    Illuminating fellas. I didn’t expect the joyless venom spewed against our own country, I guess you have something in common with the mullahs of the world.

  43. Don Coyote

    @jerry: “You surely cannot be discussing Iran, the Iran that has Jewish representation in its government as well as Christian and Women!!”

    The Iranian Parliament is a sham as are the Iranian elections. There is one Jew in the Islamic Consultative Assembly, one. Candidates for the assembly have to be approved by the Guardians’ Council, an appointed body of 12 Islamic clerics. A qualifying candidate has to profess a belief in Islam and the holy system of the Islamic Republic of Iran. The one Jew and the four Christians don’t but because they comprise such a small minority of votes it really doesn’t matter. Deaf and blind persons need not apply.
    Votes don’t mean much either in the Assembly since all laws passed are subject to the Guardian’s Council absolute veto rendering up to 50% of the legislation unconstitutional.

  44. Don Coyote

    @jerry: “Quick question Greg, how many members of the Jewish faith are in both houses that belong to the republican party? In Iran, they have you beaten man ”

    Wrong. There are two Republican Jews in the House; David Kustof of Tennessee and Lee Zeldin of New York. There are however a total of 30 Jews in the 115th Congress (5.6%) vs 1 in the Iranian Parliament (0.3%)

  45. Again, Greg is clearly not addressing me or the core argument offered in the original post. I’m filled with joy, not venom. And I have very little in common with “mullahs.”

  46. Correct on the House, my mistake. How many in the Senate was what I should have asked. Dog gone it. So how many Jewish members are the in the republican senate?

  47. 2 republicans in the House and the rest of the Jewish members in both house are Democrats or Independents.

    So then Coyote, you would agree that Iran is not such an Islamic State then with any kind of representation other than that of Muslims, thanks.

    The question still stands on who are the Islamic States and what interests do they have with America? Bonus question of these Islamic States, how many have a trump hotel?

  48. Greg, in case you have missed it, this is now your country. You and the cult of tribal republicans own her lock stock and barrel. The rest of us just pay taxes so you can get the tax breaks. She has some trouble on the corners, but is full of oil. Don’t wind her up too much on the straight aways because the next bridge you come to may just go out from under you. I am sure you will get around to fixing it right after you dismantle nursing home coverage for Grandma and Gramps. Dude has got to get the loot from someplace so you might as well toss a mattress or 10,000 of them here in South Dakota to get your fix.

  49. It looks like 238 republican members in the house including 2 Jewish members. Way to pick them kind of like some other place I was discussing. Democrats now, they offer more exposure and that helps to raise the percentages so it does look much better. Having 2 fellows in the house though is pretty good considering how well Jewish folks are received with the white sheeters. I would look for a primary for the both of them in ’18 under the banner, We dumped Cantor.

  50. Don Coyote

    @jerry: “2 republicans in the House and the rest of the Jewish members in both house are Democrats or Independents.
    So then Coyote, you would agree that Iran is not such an Islamic State then with any kind of representation other than that of Muslims, thanks.”

    Nope, those are not my words. Iran is an Islamic state through and through with a theocratic government as is exhibited by the existence of their religious Guardian Council which decides which candidates can run for office not only in the Parliament but for President as well. You won’t ever see two Jews in the Iranian Parliament because their “constitution” only provides for one. Jews comprise approx 2% of the US population and yet comprise over 5% of the representation in Congress. Your attempt at moral equivalence is as ham handed as is the Iranian government’s attempt to dress up their theocracy as a democratically elected republic.

  51. Don Coyote

    @jerry: Cantor lost for a lot of reasons but being Jewish was not one of them. However one of the main reasons Cantor lost was because of Virginia’s open primary system and the massive Democrat crossover vote to dump Cantor. Maybe a lot of those Virginian Democrats were just expressing their KKK heritage.

  52. happy camper

    Most of the political upheaval (including Trump) is a result of moderate people not having representation. The left and right keep swinging further, splintering, creating instability, and like that Blue Eyes Brown Eyes Experiment it gets tribal for people hanging on to labels which are largely losing their meaning. The disgust by moderates is at a high point and should create a vacuum for one of the parties or even a new party to move to the middle and stop this creeping madness.

    Remember Cory used to be a Repub! It would be interesting to know was he a firebrand Repub, a RINO, are many of his policy positions still the same? Cory, what changed sufficiently for you to identify as something else?

    I am this, you are that, there’s a sort of craziness about labeling and trying to contain someone within a box, including yourself. Did you hear Fareed Zakaria’s lecture on intolerance?

  53. Coyote, name those strict Islamic states and their relationship with America, Greg seems to have not found what he is looking for. Also, what do strict Islamic states have to do with trump personally.

    You are a clever coyote Mr. Coyote, Jews comprise 2% of the US population and only 2 that would be the number 2, personnel in the republican HOUSE. The Democrats are the ones who carry the most in both the HOUSE and the Senate making up the 5% in the total congress. Democrats are proud of their diversity in both the HOUSE and the Senate.

    Here is who beat Cantor and it was a coup led by President Steve Bannon of Brietbart.

    “Breitbart boosted any political outsider who threatened Republican leaders. In 2013, it cheered Ted Cruz when he helped shut down the government. In 2014, it promoted David Brat, who defeated House Majority Leader Eric Cantor in a primary by attacking his Wall Street ties and alleged sympathy for amnesty. It helped instigate the rebellion against Speaker John Boehner, who resigned from Congress in 2015. Bannon tried to entice Sessions into a race for the White House, but he declined.” The Atlantic

    Boehner was not hated by Democrats, he was respected for being a politician. We, who think about the social and economic reality of a capitalistic society, understand the importance of amnesty along with revamping immigration to be workable. Cult tribal republicans do not seem to understand basic animal husbandry, if you will. The cultivation and management of resources means that you understand the place and importance of keeping the herd fresh and strong, Reagan understood that as he was a horseman. Reagan could only go so far, but he did allow 3 million Mexicans to remain in the country. Cult tribal republicans are like a herd of geldings that will never produce anything but the destruction of the range in which they occupy. Cantor was ousted, not only because he was Jewish, but especially because he was Jewish.

    Irony alert: Shadow President Steve Bannon is pretty easy to check out on his standards of hate along with what he did before Brietbart.

    Now to the questions that seem to embarrass you and Greg. Do tell about those Islamic States and there association with America.

  54. happy, great link with good transcript. Regarding liberal and liberty, I think the young folks are correct in the followings of root word meaning liberty. Where in the world have you ever seen, in a supposed democracy, “sanctuary cities”. How is that supposed to be in a democracy. Both Pence and DeVos are stifling democracy with their actions and they should be shunned. Spot on to the young folks for standing for equality, honesty and above all, liberty. Pence and DeVos were invited to speak at the colleges noted. The religious cult tribal schools do not tend to offer speaking invitations to any but those who sing of the same sheet music. “The word liberal in this context has nothing to do with today’s partisan language, but refers instead to the Latin root, pertaining to liberty. And at the heart of liberty in the Western world has been freedom of speech. From the beginning, people understood that this meant protecting and listening to speech with which you disagreed,” Zakaria argued.

    Freedom of speech got itself into on helluva choke hold in Montana by a cult tribal republican that supports through his business bottom line, not only russia but also links to isis.

  55. Prisoner of War John McCain just said this “I think ISIS can do terrible things,” he said. “But it’s the Russians who tried to destroy the fundamental of democracy and that is to change the outcome of an American election.”

    Wow, the Russians are entirely more dangerous to America than the terrorists called whatever. Worst part is that cult tribal republicans don’t seem to mind. McCain represents what should be called real Republicans. When will they stand back up for Democracy? When will they say enough is enough and get to the bottom of this, wherever it may lead. Democracy cannot stand without its foundation.

  56. happy, even the college of middle school? Yowser, Mr. Zakaria should have included these members of education in his dissertation That, mi amigos, is beautiful!

  57. Roger! I’m just starting Season 4. It seems that striving for power is far more interesting than keeping it.

    That said, I will say that Frank Underwood is a more interesting and intelligent President than Donald Trump. Underwood makes plans. Underwood is capable of long-term planning. He can negotiate and bully far more effectively than Trump, who relies solely on bluster and image. Rewind to Season 1, make Trump President while Underwood was in the House, and Underwood would have arranged an impeachment trial, then unraveled the bipartisan coalition to derail the impeachment, brought down Pence in a sex scandal, cashed in his chips by getting Trump to appoint him VP, thrown Jared under a train, framed Ivanka for the murder, and driven Trump to suicide.

  58. Consider that it doesn’t matter whether or not fringe radicals style themselves or their perceived enemies as engaged in a great war of civilizations. The point here is that one week, as Roger points out, Trump bends over backward to mollify the Muslim world while alienating our most vital Western allies. Now strategically, if a Brzezinski or a Kissinger could prove to me that America has more to gain from the Muslim leaders than from NATO and the G-7, then I’d say fine, pursue that rational course for national security. But even if Trump had some national-security strategy in mind when he spoke in Riyadh eight days ago, he seems to have undone that advantage after just five days by reviving the rhetoric that he supposedly disavowed for strategic advantage.

    But there’s the real problem (and we’re back to Brzezinski): Trump isn’t saying things for any strategic advantage. He’s not executing any coherent plan. He’s just shooting off his mouth, saying whatever makes him feel good, and to heck with protecting America’s pieces in the multidimensional chess game that every other world leader is playing.

    Moderates, liberals, and conservatives are all served well by coherent, deliberate diplomacy and foreign policy. We now have an empty Presidency, and America is represented instead by a huckster whose only goals are personal profit and TV ratings.

  59. Coyote’s ability to find some distracting false equivalency does not rebut the ills of what Trump says and does. If a woman says her second husband beats her and Coyote replies, “Yeah, well, your first husband beat you, too,” the woman still needs to boot her second husband.

  60. happy camper

    Truly I can’t put any pieces together, or should we just follow the money. This deal with Saudia Arabia set up by son-in-law Kushner is huge, with part of it going to Blackstone (Schwarzman is one of Trumps advisors), and it turns out they made a 400 million dollar loan to Kushner he did not disclose.

    As Jerry notes, Iran seems to have the best relationship with Jews in the Middle East. A quick read of a NY Times article says they live there happily, as where the rest of the Middle East the 100,000 Jews have almost all left.

    Saudia Arabia is sure no bastion of liberal values, unless they are trying to form financial ties to the Jewish community as a way to establish relationships, or is it just a money grab to benefit those most connected to Trump. World politics are way out of my scope, but Bloomberg News for one is raising these flags.

    Kushner looked like a stablizing force for Trump, but with thes back channel he wanted to Russia who knows. Interestingly, he took over his father’s real estate empire after he was convicted of a felony by Chris Christie when he was U.S. Attorney. Jared is not guilty of his father’s crimes, but there is probably more backdrop to the earlier conflict and shakeup with Christie when he was pushed out.

    There are probably a lot of relationships we don’t understand.

  61. I (and approx. every other non-Republican) have thought that the people who think, “Kushner looks like a stablizing force for Trump” have been nothing short of LOOPY and LAZY in that assessment.

    No one even knows the sound of Kushner’s voice as he’s like the most smoky backroom guy you conservatives ever thought you knew.

  62. Here is a Muslim man in Manchester after the attack. We are all in this ride together, now let us solve this by dealing with the problem, poverty, lack of education for starters.

  63. Trump continues the “war on civilizations” rhetoric, adapting a phrase from NSA chief McMaster in today’s Arlington Cemetery Address [I struggle not to edit out the unnecessary, superfluous phatic ad libs with which Trump soils even the most solemn speech]:

    I especially want to extend our gratitude to Secretary John Kelly for joining us today. Incredible man. (Applause.) I always like to call him General. He understands more than most ever could or ever will the wounds and burdens of war. Not only did Secretary proudly serve in the military for more than 40 years, enduring many hardships, but he and his incredible wife Karen have borne the single most difficult hardship of them all—the loss of their son, Robert, in service to our country. Robert died fighting the enemies of all civilizations in Afghanistan [Trump, at Arlington, as transcribed by Time, 2017.05.29].

    “I think what the president does, is he listens to people. … This is the president asking questions, listening, learning, and of course the president will call it whatever he wants to call it,” McMaster told George Stephanopoulos on ABC’s This Week Sunday morning. “I think it’s important that whatever we call it, we recognize that these are not religious people, and in fact, these enemies of all civilization, what they want to do is to cloak their criminal behavior under this false idea of kind of a religious war” [Sarah Wildman, “Trump’s big Islam speech in Saudi Arabia was uncharacteristically inoffensive,” Vox, 2017.05.21]

    Trump and McMaster still aren’t saying what Clare Lopez, Ron Branstner, and others are saying about our Muslim neighbors.

  64. Porter Lansing

    Good one ….. superfluous phatic ad libs

  65. happy camper

    Trump was in Saudia Arabia to announce he was bringing home 100 billion dollars of bacon even he would be uncharacteristically inoffensive under those circumstances.

    But what point are you trying to make with this post anyway? The first and second highlighted paragraphs are not at odds with one another. Trump is logically trying to change the narrative to: All civilizations (in which he is including Muslims) must stand against barbarism. This is legitimate rhetoric to alienate terrorists.

  66. Porter, that may be the first time I’ve ever correctly used the word phatic. I’m still learning….

    Hap, Trump is arming the civilization that his Lopez/Branstner base say is at war with us. The language he’s back to using now seems to step back from what he was saying in Saudi Arabia, but it still doesn’t step into the hoops in which Lopez and Branstner are dancing. If you’re having trouble following me, it’s because I’m having trouble following the aimless drivel coming out of Trump’s mouth.

  67. Congrats to Mr. Trump. He found some legitimate rhetoric – be it in the wording of a sixth grader – he still finally found it within himself to speak some legitimate rhetoric.

    I’m not impressed, but any time a Republican talks tough, or even when they choke slam a journalist, conservatives eat it up like a hog with it’s face down in the slop.

  68. happy camper

    The thing is, we live in South Dakota so for the most part we don’t have first-hand knowledge and experience of Radical Islam, we just have ideas we cherish, often in replacement for religion. You won’t like what Douglas Murray has to say most likely, but Sarah Khan from Inspire often agrees with him. Both, I think, are sincere people, neither necessarily right, but she knows more than we do, and probably Douglas Murray too.

  69. happy, I tell you what, you go fight them. You can sign up with private contractors, the same dudes that brutalized the Natives in North Dakota. They tell me that you can even bring your own jammies and teddy bear. Let us know how that works for ya. Take old Sarah Khan with you, she seems to know the ropes and the lingo. Make your own you tubes and sell the rights, great future.

  70. Good news though, all you haters can just pray it away. See crime, pray it away. See some dog poo on the sidewalk, pray it away.

  71. It always sucks when South Dakotan’s abdicate the responsibility of understanding American issues which are not in their immediate backyard.

    In the ISL mining permitting process, the state of South Dakota said, “we don’t have the expertise to know whether this could be safe or not, so we will wait until the Federal government rules on it.”

    Then the Federal government said, “well, it looks like the state of South Dakota isn’t against it, so maybe the people of South Dakota are for it and allow us to provide a draft permit for everyone to argue about.”

    All because we just ain’t smart enough to understand stuff – WAAAAY out here in South Dakota. Sad!

  72. happy camper

    If you believe in equality there is no in or out, but it seems to me Jerry you defined yourself as a minority a long time ago from your own experiences. That’s your personal prism. People who believe they are a minority, often self-defined, are unwilling, perhaps afraid to believe in their own equality, but don’t blame everybody else old fart.

  73. Ya know, if Christians just had their pulse on treating people the way they want to be treated, Islamophobia wouldn’t be a thing in rural America.

    But they do not; so, we have these problems with certain American cultures.

  74. happy camper

    So the terrorism in Britain is whose fault?

  75. Roger Cornelius

    The terrorism in Britain is Trump’s fault.

    He promised to have a plan in place the first thirty days in office and to eliminate ISIS in the first hundred days of his presidency.

    Had Trump kept his promise the acts of terrorism wouldn’t be happening in Britain.

  76. The terrorism is the fault of climate change that brings on poverty and an overwhelming sense of anger. The Arab Spring started over bread shortages and has spread. When you are poor, it is livable, when you are poor and hungry, you have to survive.

  77. I have no fear of equality because that word no longer has a meaning, it is just a word. A prism, as you say, proves that point in its actions. The light hits and then it deflects with beams that go everywhere and nowhere. Or, perhaps a better way to describe would be the old fart, when that cuts through the lining of the pants, one cannot be sure how it will react to those around it. The only thing one really knows for sure about an old fart is they cannot be trusted. Sometimes, you cannot take credit and look to everyone else in the area so you do not own it, it can reek that badly. Kind of like hate, as you know much about.

    So when you suiting up to go full commando? Think of the charge of the light brigade, and head on into the valley for God and country.

  78. Yeah, Grumpy, that’s clearly what I said. What don’t you understand about it? – LOL – take every word literally why don’t ya?

  79. mike from iowa

    Maxine Waters stomped a mudhole in a journalist yesterday for getting in her way.

    This poor wuss isn’t getting any sympathy from Twitterverse. Ms Waters tossed him around like a cheap salad.

  80. trump now wants a 20 billion dollar cruise missile with a nuke head. Armageddon to civilization is trumps solution to global warming, get it over with already. I don’t think my children’s children are gonna make it to where I am today. Unless they move to Nicaragua or further south, they are toast here.

  81. trumps intelligence comittee (Fox) of which trump is a disciple, had this to say:

    “MORRIS: Talk about the nuts and bolts of this. Nigel Farage, a short time ago was on the show bringing up the word internment, bringing up the specter here in the United States of internment camps, Japanese internment camps. You’re mentioning deportation and rounding up and mass incarceration. What would that look like and do you think that Theresa May and do you think that the British government would actually do that?

    HOPKINS: i don’t think they’ve got the stomach to do that. I don’t think they’ve got the political will to do that. I also see how they pander still, relentlessly to these preachers who are on the wrong side of this argument, people who are against the prevent strategy for counterterrorism.

    People like Cage who speak out, always in defense of Islam and how great it is, kind of Islamic preachers who speak out about the fact that what we need to be worried about is Islamophobia. We’re not worried about that. We do need internment camps.”

    You just know that trump is thinking that might not be a bad thing. Meanwhile, Muslims, Jews, Catholics, Mormons and everyone but the Evangelicals should be sweating bullets. We all have seen how internment camps work. If not, there are plenty of historical sites that can bring you up to speed.

    Solve the poverty by creating jobs that have to do with cleaning this trash heap up, as an eample. Give someone a job and they are on top of the world instead of wanting to blow the top off the world. Sober the hell up and look down the road, it is pretty obvious if you do not have a future, why would you allow anyone else to have one either.

  82. every day republican’s president proves he is an idiot.

  83. happy camper

    “An estimated 60 percent of those who espouse violent jihadism in Europe are second-generation Muslims who have lost their connection with their country of origin and have failed to integrate into Western societies,” Roy says.

    They are subject to a “process of deculturation” that leaves them ignorant of and detached from both the European society and the one of their origins. The result, Roy argues, is a dangerous “identity vacuum” in which “violent extremism thrives.”

    Born in Britain in 1994, Abedi would later be drawn to violent fundamentalism after a life in limbo. On the one hand, he tried to reconnect with Libya, where he traveled shortly before this week’s attack, while on the other, he strove to emulate the same British young people he killed.

    “Unlike second generations like Abedi’s, third generations are normally better integrated in the West and don’t account for more than 15 percent of homegrown jihadis,” Roy says. “Converts, who also have an approach to Islam decontextualized from any culture, account for about 25 percent of those who fall prey to violent fundamentalism.”

    read more:

  84. happy camper

    Spiritual vacuum:

    “If comments by French Interior Minister Gérard Collomb are confirmed, Abedi will join the long list of returning jihadis who have struck in Europe after fighting in Syria. But Roy also notes some positive news: Hundreds of foreign fighters from Europe are seeking a safe return to Europe by turning themselves in to their embassies in Turkey, according to the Italian press.

    “This means they don’t have the suicidal instincts characterizing terrorists like Abedi,” Roy says, though he warns that the “hegemony of secularism” and the rejection of “all forms of religiosity” in the West have created a spiritual vacuum that can be a breeding ground for fundamentalism.”

  85. Not to give this dude cover, but his parents worked directly for Qaddafi In Libya. We killed Qaddafi even when he gave up his weapons program, that put the family out of work and out of resources. These guys there are all about revenge, honor and payback and have been that way for a few centuries. That eye for an eye thingy did not come out from the blue.

    Fight the poverty with jobs and you have won over a fundamentalist who now has a future. Or, you can try to kill them off. While you are doing that, white boys in the US are converting. Jobs jobs jobs will make the difference.

    BTW, what about all of the white supremacist killings within the United States borders? Dylan Roof gunned down 8 Christian African Americans in a church. The dude in Portland, Colorado Springs, etc., intimidation all over the country in terrorist fashion. How do you know that a visit to the mall might be your last because one of our locals had too much of a Fox or Infowars fix.

  86. Roger Cornelius

    5 people were shot and killed in a workplace shooting in Orlando today.

  87. Roger, it was just a bad apple. Only good guys buy guns. If you like guns, then you’re one of the good guys. If you’re a self proclaimed Christian, no one has the right to judge your character or sanity.

    “It is everyone’s God given right to kill as many people as possible before your own suicide.” -Texas Mega-Church Pastor #36

  88. happy camper

    There will always be unstable people and religious nutcases, but workplace violence is not the same as people part of a terrorist network. One of the terrorists was filmed openly praying to the black ISIS flag. As a general statement modern Christianity is relatively benign, although they feel everyone judges them because they are the majority, and ok to criticize the majority, but not any minority. There is an obvious double standard. It’s time to let go of ideas of minorities just people all equal.

    From link: A former friend told the BBC’s Asian Network he had contacted the authorities after becoming me concerned about Butt’s extremist views.

    Butt had been radicalised watching extremist videos online, he said, adding: “We spoke about a particular attack that happened and like most radicals he had a justification for anything and everything, and that day I realised I needed to contact the authorities.”

  89. happy camper

    The thing is Cory, if race is just a social construct, then there are no minorities, and quotas, and special classes of people make no sense. So supporting quotas for classes of people then you’re reinforcing something you say doesn’t exist. There are some biological differences, but all the labels help nobody.

  90. Porter Lansing

    This suspected undercover ISIL agent who calls his mission “happy camper” may just be working daily for Islamic State leaders. Jihadists love dupes and believers alike. Those who preach anti-Muslim and anti-Islamic State hate speech are immensely important in recruiting new suicide bombers. I.S. uses these agents to direct readers to selected hate sites and gives them hate speech copy to distribute on blogs and Facebook. This HappyCamper knows just too many of these obscure sites to be legitimate. Just think about it. If a young Muslim man feels welcome he’s much less apt to radicalize than a young Muslim man living in a community where the hate against him raises a stench anyone would want to bomb.
    It wouldn’t be surprising if Homeland Security asked the FreePress for this agent “HC’s” internet address … and the readers that have joined him, also. He’s one that should be watched, ‘ya know? It’s simple to register a web address in South Dakota even if you live in another state or country. Who knows where this woman/man lives? Many signs indicate that Ron Branstner, Clare Lopez and Brigitte Gabriel are undercover, too. What better disguise than to pose as an anti-Islamist when you’re secretly working for the people you’re preaching hate speech against? Be on guard with these radicalized imposters, folks. If we all became hateful of Muslims, as these agents want and reject what Jesus teaches us, that would mean that the terrorists have won. South Dakotans won’t let terrorists win, no matter what!! Will you?

  91. We can reduce most/all the mass-killing suicider bad apples by letting EVERYONE in America who wants a gun to buy one.

    We should just legalize grenades and rocket launchers – make real life more like Grand Theft Auto video games.

    Yeah, that would prevent nutbags from mass-murdering. Wow, I feel so smart.

  92. trumps hand holder May, fired 20,000 police officers in the UK. What did she think was gonna happen? She is so damn dumb she fits right into the rest of the cult tribal republicans. She, like trump, should resign immediately.

  93. NOem, Thune and EB5 guy all think this is swell for South Dakota. It seems like something might be wrong with this picture. “President Trump will lay out a vision this coming week for sharply curtailing the federal government’s funding of the nation’s infrastructure and calling upon states, cities and corporations to shoulder most of the cost of rebuilding roads, bridges, railways and waterways.” Non meandered waterways, no problem, put a toll on them. What to cross the Missouri River, pay the dude behind the curtain. Out on the prairie,

  94. Hap, we’ve had that conversation. I’d be happy to endorse Lawrence Diggs’ “race doesn’t exist” thesis in public policy. But I can’t do that until everyone in the public stops using that fallacious concept as grounds for discrimination. I’ve got neighbors who are shouting on Kaleb Weis’s website with their translations of Trump’s civilization-war talk that we should kick all refugees out of Aberdeen, which for them (and the Donald) is code for, “Deport all those brown people!” I’d be happy to have them all sit down for a nice esoteric talk with you and Mr. Diggs about the fallacy of their racial thinking, but it’s a little more important right now that we knock the torches out of their hands and tell them to quit acting like the Klan.

  95. happy camper

    But Cory your logic is flawed. You’ve reinforcing a continuous loop you don’t even like. So, “We’re equal and the same, but since other people don’t agree, I’ll accept those definitions and categories.” That is solidifying and rewarding differences which for all practical purposes don’t even exist.

    And to address Porter’s statement that it’s a lack of acceptance that fuels the extremism, that may not be the case if the expert from the Jewish paper is correct. One of the terrorist’s neighbors was just flabbergasted because they were so friendly to one another. This crisis of identify he talks is probably a very real thing which relates back to our way of thinking that we are just the same, but not everyone thinks this way or will even accept it, so for them, we are not equal. In fact many people on this blog insist they are Minorities. Different. Not the same.

  96. Porter Lansing

    Agent Camper … If I was doing the work of the terrorists, like you are, I’d say exactly the same thing you just said and try to misdirect. I can’t prove yet if you’re willingly helping their jihad or you’re just a dupe but none the less, you’re involved in radicalizing Muslim young men in South Dakota. Quit it before something tragic happens in Aberdeen, you inerudite patsy.

  97. happy camper

    You are equal because you know you are equal, not because you need someone else’s permission to feel equal. You are perpetuating inequality Cory, as is Roger, Leslie, and those who insist they are minorities. Not sure about Jerry, but anytime someone insists they are a minority, then they are confirming they don’t believe in equality.

  98. Grumpy Cat says that, “anytime someone insists they are a minority, then they are confirming they don’t believe in equality.”

    He thinks minorities are an illusion – not a statistical fact of all societies on Earth.

    He be driving down the road with his blinker on – jamming out to music – not paying attention to the road.

  99. Roger Cornelius

    It isn’t necessary for me to insist that I am a minority, it is a fact that I am.

    Happy periodically trots out this hobby horse of his that we are all one race and therefore there is no racism, prejudice, or discrimination. I have listened to this arguments from different fronts for nearly 70 years and find no basis to it.
    Equality is simply a made up feel good word used to ease one’s conscience for their racism.
    The Founding Fathers included equality in the founding documents at the same time they were slave owners and treated blacks with the harshest treatment known to man.
    White men have enjoyed many of the freedoms this country has to offer that women, minorities and others have had to fight for over centuries and decades to achieve.
    NO, we are not one race, we may share a biological beginning, but that is it.
    Like Cory says, we’ve had this discussion before and frankly it is getting old.
    Happy can provide as many blue links from propaganda sites as he chooses, but that doesn’t change the fact that we are not all of one race.

  100. Porter Lansing

    RC’s my guru …..

  101. Mine, too. I have great manly affection for Mr. C.

  102. Roger Cornelius

    Thanks Porter and grudz.

  103. happy camper

    Progressive Racial Perpetuators on the left are creating the new generation of racists, reverse racists but still the same thing, more so now than white supremacists. Some think they are helping, some just want the votes, but to teach people they are minorities and victims rots them from the inside and creates division among the vast majority of people that don’t see race as any part of how they judge someone. King’s dream is not entirely dead but you’re doing a good job of stomping on it.

  104. Porter Lansing

    You are exhibiting all the traits of a white supremacist, yourself Agent Camper. First you deny that race is a factor in anything, which is true for people that only obsess about themselves and their whiteness. Then, you use the pillar of American equality (Dr. King) to make a “fake news” statement about your repulsive assertions. What? When you’re not hating on Muslims you feel a need to hide behind anonymity and insult people of minorities? Say your hate speech eye to eye, face to face and toe to toe with someone whom you’re so quick to disparage, sometime. Walk up to a black man, a Mexican man or an Indian man and say, “Equality is simply a made up feel good word used to ease your conscience.” You won’t, will you? What you are is just a coward.

  105. too funny. Here is how your cult republican team treat an 8 year old girl in Nebraska The only way cult tribal republicans can win at anything, is to eliminate competition.
    It looks like even a supposed gay man can be inclined to look the other way when racism and homophobia is clearly deemed appropriate by your team.

  106. I do not perpetuate inequality by telling people not to act like racist thugs. I do not perpetuate inequality by critiquing the reckless rhetoric of a President who fuels racist, un-American anti-immigrant sentiment in Aberdeen.

  107. happy camper

    Not directly, but you’re allowing the idea of race to be perpetuated by believing and saying it’s a social construct, while some of your commentators directly refute you and insist race is important. I’m this race, you’re that race. That’s racism. That’s inequality.

    Roger’s statement is perverse and twisted: “Equality is simply a made up feel good word used to ease one’s conscience for their racism.” So if you believe in equality, you’re a racist. Wow, just wow.

    To a large degree I think this is generational. Someone like Grutz probably observed discrimination and learned a very different set of values, while someone like Roger experienced discrimination first hand, so it’s part of their prism based on their actual experiences.

    Last week I had a nice talk with a lesbian who is 33 years old. Her father’s advice to her at age 23 when she came out to him was: Don’t let being gay define you. She took that to heart and her life is working well. This is in deep contrast to earlier generations of gay people where it was the main focus, or overwhelming part of their identify if they even came out. My father’s advice was: Don’t tell anybody.

    There is a real danger in teaching your kids or grandkids an outdated view of the world, because modern people don’t see race. They see people first, then cultural influences and appreciate these differences as long as they are not harmful.

    But regarding craziness on the left, and really perpetuating racial divides, it’s happening on college campuses, Evergreen being the extreme example. African American students wanted white people to stay off campus for a day, a teacher said no, that would have to be voluntary, so they labeled him racist, threatened him, created near riots, and he is a progressive devoted to racial equality. You can’t make this stuff up. This YouTuber did a good job of putting together the footage. It’s unexplainable, by me anyway. What the heck is going on there?

  108. Porter Lansing

    Camp … You post here as a release of your subconscious, huh? Your father put a heavy backpack on you and you’re trying to share the pain with Muslims and minorities. It’s ok to love yourself, man.
    Leave others alone and focus on yourself until you can give unconditionally. Just because your Dad said you’re messed up, you don’t have to try and please him by proving him right.
    (PS … when my daughter came out, I recall saying that exact thing to her. “Don’t let it define you.” She’s happily married to my executive chef daughter-in-law and has found her calling as a hospice nurse supervisor.)
    But ….. your dad didn’t care about you when you came out. He cared about himself and how people would judge him by what you are. You can do better. Your unsettled heart is making you miserable and causing you to act out in revenge. One decision at a time is how you start to heal.

  109. Roger Cornelius

    camper continues to omit a crucial word in his continued insistence that we are all the same and their is no racism, discrimination or prejudice. That word is individuality.
    camper tells us different stories of how he and others came out and the support or lack of it helped define who they are.
    I’ll admit that in the 60’s and 70’s I hated whites and anything white and was a radical in pursuit of equality for Native Americans.
    Somewhere along the line I learned of my white grandfather and white great grandfather and my thinking and life changed and I learned to respect a race and culture that I was a part of.
    My Lakota grandmother would often tell me not be a sheep, follower, and I never was.
    Corey knows me pretty well and can attest to my passion to protect our culture and my fight for that equality camper brags about, obviously with all the racial divides in this country and continued fights to gain that elusive equality will continue to be a work in progress.
    I often have the feeling that camper tries to be a deep thinker and by doing so creates for himself more problems than are necessary.

  110. happy camper

    I want to think honestly wherever that takes me, and my gut tells me we won’t get to equality by making divisions first, trying to get them all up to some kind of equal footing before eliminating special classes of people.

    The video of Evergreen College, while painful to watch, shows something similar to Arthur Murray’s play The Crucible. Our divisions allow people to call someone Racist, or Islamophobic and make others temble in fear. That college president does exactly that as he is ordered by a student to put his hands by his side rather than move his hands while speaking, because they call it a microagression. Other students giggle in delight as he complies. It is a sick social exercise of power.

    Think what they would do to Cory.

  111. Roger Cornelius

    Since Biblical times there have been divisions and there always will be.
    It is idealistic thinking to believe that the world will ever be on equal footing and have equal rights.
    Our destiny is to fight for any of the divisions you may fit into and to challenge any system that puts roadblocks up for equality.
    I’m like you happy, I try to think honestly and realistically about the fate of Native Americans and the tribes.
    For many of those divisions you refer to, it has been a life of fighting for their rights and recognition and the generations after them will continue that fight.
    It is as though the fight for personal and civil rights are actually a part of American culture.

  112. happy, u r still touting your “no-race’ theory, or political correctness effort or whatever it is. as an anthropology student it seems humorous for u to be wedded to a concept such as “there is no race”.

    academia’s however debate it justifiability. when they work it out i’ll pay attention.

    “The concept of biological race has declined significantly in frequency of use in physical anthropology in the United States during the 20th century. A majority of physical anthropologists in the United States have rejected the concept of biological races.[157]” wiki

    Indians often have little reverence for anthropological opinions I have found, as the field of study matures over the centuries. it has never been considered a pure science afaik.

  113. It is easy to see happy’s point of view, he is a white man of privilege. In his world, there is only one color, the green of money.

  114. I do think about what theocrats would do to me, Happy, every day. I think about it every time I recite the Pledge of Allegiance that theocrats have co-opted to reinforce their religion.

    If we’re worried about other people forcing their religion on us, then our first, best weapon against them is to preserve an open, pluralistic democracy where we prescribe clear limits to the intrusion of the state in religion and of religion in the state.

  115. I wish I could slam a ‘like’ button on some blog comments! I know it might be a tall order but sometimes I don’t have a lot of time to comment yet I wish I could just smack a ‘love’ button -or something- when I read down a comment chain, and I sort of feel like a troll if I comment about how I really like some other previous comment.

    That being said, when I read jerry saying, “Non meandered waterways, no problem, put a toll on them” – at that moment, it hit me just right, I smiled bigger than any point in my whole relatively tough day.

    Grumpy Cat saying, “my gut tells me we won’t get to equality by making divisions first” screams for editing of the sentence to then read, “my gut tells me we won’t get to equality by recognizing divisions first” – as that is what Grumpy really means, from his gut (definitely not the brain).

  116. happy camper

    Up down arrows just reinforce bias.

    If you believe in race and individuality, perhaps you know of Shelby Steele. His message is worth considering:

  117. Grumpy thinks a guy has to “believe in” race or individuality in order to acknowledge it’s existence.


  118. Adam, the more widgets in the comment section, the slower the load. Text is beautiful… and fast!

  119. happy camper

    Yes, of course Adam, after considering your comment further I must admit there are races. You present yourself as a typical Caucasoid. They love to roll on the ground.