Thune, Rounds, Noem All Deceived by Video Tricksters Who Lied to Planned Parenthood

Senators John Thune and Mike Rounds are following Iowa freshman Senator Joni Ernst (that ought to be the first sign you’re headed in the wrong direction) demanding that the Department of Health and Human Services investigate Planned Parenthood based on accusations raised by edited ambush video that Planned Parenthood is illegally selling fetus parts.

Thune, Rounds, Ernst, and 47 other Senators are basing their letter on what Bob Mercer calls “an ambush of deliberate distortion.” The New York Times agrees:

The full video of the lunch meeting, over two hours long and released by the Center for Medical Progress after complaints by Planned Parenthood, shows something very different from what these critics claim. Clearly, the shorter version was edited to eliminate statements by Dr. Nucatola explaining that Planned Parenthood does not profit from tissue donation, which requires the clear consent of the patient. Planned Parenthood affiliates only accept money — between $30 and $100 per specimen, according to Dr. Nucatola — to cover costs associated with collecting and transporting the tissue. “This is not something with any revenue stream that affiliates are looking at,” she said. Under federal law, facilities may be reimbursed for costs associated with fetal tissue donation, like transportation and storage [editorial, “The Campaign of Deception Against Planned Parenthood,” New York Times, 2015.07.22].

Rep. Kristi Noem says she’s lost sleep over the ambush videos and the fact that federally funded Planned Parenthood would “deceive people” to sell body parts to “put more dollars in their pockets.” neatly dispatches that hyperbolic accusation:

[Senior director of medical services Deborah] Nucatola’s comment, though, isn’t evidence that Planned Parenthood or its affiliates are selling “body parts” or fetal tissue for profit. The full video shows that after Nucatola mentions the $30 to $100, she describes how those amounts would be reimbursement for expenses related to handling and transportation of the tissues. Nucatola talks about “space issues” and whether shipping would be involved [Dave Levitan and Lori Robertson, “Unspinning the Planned Parenthood Video,”, 2015.07.21]. further cites three medical experts who say it’s more likely that preserving and shipping fetal tissue for scientific research probably loses money for Planned Parenthood:

We also asked experts in the use of human tissue for research about the potential for profit. Sherilyn J. Sawyer, the director of Harvard University and Brigham and Women’s Hospital’s “biorepository,” told us that “there’s no way there’s a profit at that price.” She continued in an email:

Sawyer, July 20: In reality, $30-100 probably constitutes a loss for [Planned Parenthood]. The costs associated with collection, processing, storage, and inventory and records management for specimens are very high. Most hospitals will provide tissue blocks from surgical procedures (ones no longer needed for clinical purposes, and without identity) for research, and cost recover for their time and effort in the range of $100-500 per case/block. In the realm of tissues for research $30-100 is completely reasonable and normal fee.

Jim Vaught, president of the International Society for Biological and Environmental Repositories and formerly the deputy director of the National Cancer Institute’s Office of Biorepositories and Biospecimen Research, told us in an email that “$30 to $100 per sample is a reasonable charge for clinical operations to recover their costs for providing tissue.” In fact, he said, the costs to a clinic are often much higher, but most operations that provide this kind of tissue have “no intention of fully recovering [their] costs, much less making a profit.”

Carolyn Compton, the chief medical and science officer of Arizona State University’s National Biomarkers Development Alliance and a former director of biorepositories and biospecimen research at the National Cancer Institute, agreed that this was “a modest price tag for cost recovery.” Compton told us in an email: ” ‘Profit’ is out of the question, in my mind. I would say that whoever opined about ‘profit’ knows very little about the effort and expense involved in providing human biospecimens for research purposes” [Levitan and Robertson, 2015.07.21].

If Rep. Noem is worried about “deceit,” she ought to check the video creators, the “Center for Medical Progress,” who created a fake company to get access to Planned Parenthood:

Reps. Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.), Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.), Jerry Nadler (D-N.Y.) and Yvette Clarke (D-N.Y.) asked U.S. Attorney General Loretta Lynch and California Attorney General Kamala Harris on Tuesday to review whether the anti-abortion group Center for Medical Progress broke state and federal laws when it created a fake human tissue procurement company in order to gain access to and secretly film Planned Parenthood staffers. The Huffington Post reported on Friday that the CMP may have also illegally deceived the IRS and its donors by posing as a biomedicine charity in 2013. 

“I am deeply concerned about the allegations that federal and state laws were violated in an attempt to attack Planned Parenthood, an organization that provides critical health care services to more than three million men and women each year, and that the attack was coordinated by conservative activists who want to discredit Planned Parenthood and its work,” Clarke said in a statement. “I urge Attorney General Loretta Lynch and the Honorable Kamala Harris, Attorney General of California, to initiate a full investigation into this incident to determine if any fraud or other illegal activities were committed” [Laura Bassett, “Dems Call for Investigation into Group Behind Planned Parenthood ‘Sting’ Videos,” Huffington Post, 2015.07.22].

U.S. Attorney General Loretta Lynch is going to look into matters surrounding the videos. Whether anyone broke the law seems unlikely, but far greater moral culpability appears to lie with the video makers, who lied to get their scoop, and our Congressional delegation who now base on their lies their latest fit of faux fetal moralism.

52 Responses to Thune, Rounds, Noem All Deceived by Video Tricksters Who Lied to Planned Parenthood

  1. hmmmmm. nice work cory. we shall c whether our sleepy 3 amigos spend their partisan time on the hill adding to the fauxfire. geez. what’s it gonna take to de-elect them in SD?

    another 47 senator letter? this just keeps getting better.

  2. Jeff Kroon

    Selling human body parts for a profit is bad but break even is OK?

  3. medical harvest of body parts from dead people to benefit others needing those parts is common.

  4. Bill Dithmer

    ” medical harvest of body parts from dead people to benefit others needing those parts is common.”

    Yup Leslie that tissue has saved a lot of lives and made some people live more comfortable. It also has ruined a few peoples lives in the last ten years. I was one.

    The Blindman

  5. Steve Hickey

    Nice try Cory, but it’s indefensible. We have use for the body parts of dead people but no use for the people themselves?? I shifted on the death penalty and you are long overdue to leave your abortion is okay thinking behind. It’s indefensible. It’s basic human compassion. Life is life and it’s sacred. This pre-70s medical speak Planned Parenthood continues to use – clump of tissue – is deceptive to women . Especially when they turn right around and sell hearts and livers and call them such. Bonhoeffer lied to expose the greatest liar and so what these folks put up a false front to get these doctors to show the world who they really are and what they are really doing. We kill more black babies in NYC than are born. It was Sangers dream to exterminate human weeds. No retraction on the racist roots. Even the Southern Baptists have said sorry . The focus needs to shift off the confederate flag to what Planned Parenthood has and is doing to the black poor.

  6. Here is another issue regarding this video:

    The House of Representatives had been working on a bill to add a woman to a commemorative U.S. coin. The money raised from the sale of the coin would go to Susan G. Komen for breast cancer research. The bill was up for a vote and had bi-partisan support in the GOP-controlled House.


    The anti-abortion group, Center for Medical Progress, released their version of the Planned Parenthood video.

    Now, many Republicans have withdrawn their support for this bill and Representatives have called for an investigation into Planned Parenthood.

    How does this all relate?

    Susan G. Komen gives grant money to Planned Parenthood to help fund breast cancer screenings for women who cannot afford them. In eleven clinics across the country. Eleven.

    Anti-choice zealots released a heavily edited video to kill a bill in the House that would have raised money for breast cancer research because a small percentage of that money would find its way to Planned Parenthood.

    In my opinion, Republicans are calling for an investigation into the wrong people.

    As a side note, Kristi NOem is once again complaining about government overreach on Facebook page. I wonder if that means she is finally going to work to keep the government out of my uterus?

  7. bill d.-i hope my son’s corneas didn’t damage your eyesight.

  8. the people who shot out the doors of planned parenthood rapid city years ago with a high-powered rifle prolly thought “ends-justify-means” in their terrorism too, hickey.

    btw, i appreciate your payday lender stand. best of luck with your phd.

  9. Liberty Dick

    One thing commonly overlooked is that they admit to altering the procedure to accommodate the organ purchasers. According to a couple interviews I saw of doctors who specialize in this field that creates an undo risk for the mother. I will search and link later.
    I would also like to thank everyone commenting that uses the adjective of “people” to describe the unborn. You make the pro life arguments that much easier.

  10. Paul Seamans

    I send a little money to Planned Parenthood each year. This is a reminder that I need to send a special donation.

  11. Steve Hickey

    Well, they are people, biological humans, science says so. Stage of development does dictate who is human and who is not. Sanger talked about indians and blacks as dysgenic races. Certainly no one on this blog will defend those sentiments. There are no biological humans more human than other biological humans.

    And level of deformity or disability doesn’t lessen ones status as human. Neither does ones level of depravity, i.e. Death penalty. In terms of values and medical science, Planned Paretnhood is stuck in the 1950s and 1960s. Women should not go to them for accurate information. Those selling abortions are preoccupied with Lamborghinis.

  12. Steve, you’re having an argument about abortion itself, and that’s fine. Thune, Rounds, and Noem are trying to blow up a manipulated video, created on the basis of deception, to say things that aren’t true. That’s unacceptable. We can argue about the morality and utility of scientific research using discarded fetal tissue, but we must also hold our Congressional delegation accountable for lying to us.

  13. I see some people are using their selective memory once again when it comes to discussing anything about Planned Parenthood. It’s so easy for some to forget that:

    “Abortions represent 3 percent of total services provided by Planned Parenthood, and roughly 10 percent of its clients received an abortion. The group does receive federal funding, but the money cannot be used for abortions by law.” (

    We can also use our selective memories and easily forget that abortion is legal in the United States, and this procedure is pretty much a decision that should ultimately be left to women. It’s no surprise that South Dakota women who become pregnant may find themselves forced to consider the option of abortion, because we do such a crappy job of taking care of children in this state after they’re born. Kristi loses sleep over a hinky video put together by people who intended to deceive right from the beginning? She should be losing sleep over all of the South Dakota children who go to bed every night with empty bellies.

  14. wonder how barbie slept in china w/ disgraced ill. (R.) congresschild aaron “redroom” somebody? reuters 3.17.15. see greatwall pic/article wapo 4.28.14

  15. mike from iowa

    It is a crime to intentionally film animal abuse in cafos.

  16. mike from iowa

    As for being deceived,wingnuts deliberately believe falsehoods because they intend to outlaw abortions and are not particularly ethical in their practices to do such. No amount of empirical evidence of criminal activity by these people will change wingnut’s desire to end all legal abortions,

  17. Again, the people that are against abortions have no right to complain about those babies and their single moms being on welfare. Don’t stigmatize them. Lift them up. Make the system better.

    Fight the real problems – missing dads in America, child abuse, drug abuse, low wages, domestic violence. There will always be abortions.

  18. i see sen. tom cotton (R.) is callig SOS kerry “pontius pilate”. “young” republican legislators-do they really have nothing better to do every morning than (have staff) search the headlines to make self-serving partisan headlines of their own? rounds, noem, thune, cotton-tsk, tsk. thehill today

  19. There should be a full investigation of these people who created a fake charity and got non-profit status for it. Sounds like there should at least be some criminal actions involved like the filing of false or fraudulent documents, and perhaps perjury. Anyone who thinks Bosworth committed a crime and should rightfully have faced prosecution should agree that these people should be investigated and prosecuted also.

  20. Nucatola is a cool name. Kind of rolls off the tongue. Nucatola. Nucatola. Nucatola. Nucatola.

  21. Douglas Wiken

    Both conservatives and liberals should remember that news that sounds nearly too good to be true probably isn’t true. Rock Garden Tour on SDPB notes that their stories are so bad, they have to be true as contrasted with those too good to be true.

    Conservatives are busy supporting rapist rights. Makes you wonder about their real values.

  22. Porter Lansing

    Conservative Politicians Gather Campaign Donations by Using Abortion to Ignite Their Base or Dog Bites Man – #NeitherAreNews #cavil

  23. I agree with everything Dave and Jenny said.
    And for our elected leaders to keep pounding the drum, knowing this video is altered, is typical.
    The only people that they are convincing are the wingnuts that want to be convinced. Forrest was right, stupid is as stupid does.

  24. Chalk up another legislative casualty courtesy of the bogus Planned Parenthood video.

  25. mike from iowa

    Breitbart and his proteges have done nothing but push heavily edited videos that are useful for their propaganda purposes,but utterly useless as factual films. From the USDA to ACORN to Planned Parenthood several times,they produce nothing but lies and distortions. Time to grow up and ignore material everyone knows is fake.

  26. Steve Hickey

    Altered video?

    It’s self-evident. It’s indefensible. Why is there such a veil over the humanity of the unborn?

    Why is Planned Parenthood given a free pass from scrutiny regarding their past and present? As far as I’m concerned this organization is among the worst in American history and as they are increasingly exposed they will become increasingly radioactive. Amazing how silent Hillary is on these videos. This isn’t right and left. This is about human life and the devaluation of it. Society is better when we protect our most vulnerable. Society is at its worst when we destroy them and shop out their organs for additional profit.

  27. Nobody’s shopping out organs for profit. You know it, yet you perpetuate the lie. Shame on you.

  28. Steve Hickey

    Come on Rorschach. What were those PP reps doing? They were shopping organs for profit.

    It’s only the tip of the iceberg with PP. Most grievous is that they cover up sexual abuse of minors – aborting and flushing the evidence of rape and incest and sending victims back into the hands of the perps. One day there will be an uprising of women all over America who say… I came to them and told them and they knew and they didn’t help me and it continued and continued. The financial settlements from those cases will dwarf anything the Catholic Church has had to deal with in their cover ups of child hood sexual abuse cases.

  29. I would urge you to read the entirety of the article that Cory quoted.

  30. Bill Dithmero

    “The financial settlements from those cases will dwarf anything the Catholic Church has had to deal with in their cover ups of child hood sexual abuse cases.”

    Isnt there a big difference Rev? After all, those women knew what they were doing there, those abuse victims got molested. Get it? The women got abortions because they wanted one. Those people that were molested werent asked if they wanted to be molested, they didnt sign a paper that forced them to except the fact that they were going to be molested, and they didnt ask to be molested.

    You still have the opinion that a woman just doesnt have the smarts to live in her own body. From what I’ve been reading, those religious fundies are saying that if it takes as lie to get what you want, then the end justifies the means.

    The Blindman

  31. Don Coyote

    @Rita: Altered video? No. Edited? Yes. If you want to watch the full 2+ hours of the unedited version you can find it on Youtube. Here let me help:

  32. Steve Hickey

    Blindman – I’ve talked to many women who said they were coerced by abusers to be there. One that I’ll never forget was crying hysterically and they drugged her to settle her down. Five years later she’d wake up panicked, searching her bed for her baby and then remember again what happened to her and the baby. Planned Parenthood tells these underage gals no to mention the age of the men who are the “father.” It should be a crime.

  33. Barry Smith

    If the anti- choice folks are ever going to win on this issue they will need to change the hearts and minds of those that disagree with them. The use of deception to those aims is a fools game. As soon as trickery is discovered anything of pertinence will be discounted. The only thing that these sort of events do is fortify the walls around the opposing camps. Stupid!

  34. Way to split hairs there, Chuck.
    Edit means to correct, condense or modify. Alter means to change the character or composition in a significant way. They didn’t try to correct it. They didn’t condense it. They changed the character in a significant way to tell the story they were trying to sell–implying that fetal body parts were being sold off for profit. PP is not profiteering off of discarded fetal tissue and organs. These pols know they can fire up their base by supporting these lies. I’d take these guys a lot more seriously if they showed any concern for the life of the fetus outside the womb.

  35. Deb Geelsdottir

    Ohferpete’ssake Hickey! Are you just making stuff up?

    Okay, you want to stop abortions. So we’re talking castration for the males who rape, molest, or impregnate and disappear? That ought to dramatically reduce the number of unplanned pregnancies, which is the number one reason abortions happen.

    This ought to work too. Mandatory, nationwide chemically induced impotence for all males from the onset of puberty till age 25 And they have passed a variety of courses on sexuality, parenting, sexual ethics, and have proven financial responsibility by having deposited $5000,000 per child in an account he cannot access.

    Or this: Prescriptions for impotence medications strictly regulated and available only to males who are not able to fertilize eggs for biological reasons or males who have been approved for impregnation as described in my previous example. Males over age 55 are ineligible because they are not likely to live long enough, nor have the physical energy to adequately raise children.

    There you go Hickey! I’ve provided you with 3 ways to drastically reduce the number of abortions without trying to reduce an adult woman’s autonomy over her own body. Support these ideas and/or offer more of your own and I will wholeheartedly believe that this has nothing to do with controlling women or forcing women and families into the a “(un)traditional” Christian family image.

    Oh, but you’ve already said women are being deceived about abortion. Jeez. I didn’t know you are so aware of our intellectual limitations. But we try really hard and we’re so grateful that a big, strong man, such as yourself, is protecting us!

    I’m absolutely serious about the ways to sharply reduce the number of abortions. I’m also absolutely serious about my sarcastic outrage at the crap you’ve spewed in your comments here. How embarrassing for you. Is it that your not running for office, or that you’re a few thousand miles away so the Real Hickey has been unleashed?

  36. Roger Cornelius

    Rep Hickey,

    I’ll call you Rep. Hickey because my question requires a response from a politician.

    You say you are outraged by Planned Parenthood and call it the worst organization in American history.

    What do you have to say about South Dakota state government not testing rape test kits that are sitting on the shelves of evidence rooms gathering dust.

    If you choose to put all your focus on abortions, why don’t you put that weight behind doing the right thing and getting these rape kits tested. As a state representative you have an obligation to the women of South Dakota that have been victims of sexual abuse, why haven’t you done something about this, it is obviously not a new issue and is indefensible.

    What is South Dakota state government protecting rapists, Steve?

  37. mike from iowa

    Force unwanted fetuses to be born and then don’t feed them or educate them. Christ!! What hypocrisy!!

  38. Hey, quick check here: were the actors (that’s a euphemism for liars) from “Center for Medical Progress” ever able to make a deal? Did they ever get a Planned Parenthood employee to sign a contract, take cash, or make any concrete promise to trick women, violate health care protocols, and break the law to make profit on fetal material? If not, then what are Thune, Rounds, and Noem screaming about?

  39. The Lamborghini thing is more exaggeration. No one at Planned Parenthood is selling fetal tissue to get a sportscar:

  40. mikeyc, that's me!

    Geez, Cory.
    Way to go.

  41. Let’s recognize that this brouhaha is all part of a strategy to knock down Planned Parenthood, which provides abortion, contraception, and a whole lot more medical services that help women. John Thune backed Jon Kyl’s lie about Planned Parenthood to argue for defunding Planned Parenthood. That lie didn’t work, so now Thune and friends resort to another lie.

    Let’s talk straight: abortion is legal. It is legal because women have a Constitutional right to control their own bodies. That includes the right to terminate a pregnancy and not be forced by a husband, a rapist, a preacher, or a legislator to bear a child.

    Planned Parenthood provides women that service, legally and safely. That procedure results in unused biological material. Planned Parenthood could throw that material away, or Planned Parenthood could go to the extra trouble and expense of transferring that material to researchers for scientific use. Do what Rorschach says and read the FactCheck article again: it says that, far from raking in cash, Planned Parenthood may be losing money going to that trouble.

    Planned Parenthood isn’t vampires. They aren’t eating babies. They aren’t tricking women to help the boss buy a Lamborghini. And the videomakers trying to convince you otherwise are quite literally liars. I shouldn’t have to work this hard to tell our Congressional delegation to move on. But Thune, Rounds, and Noem appear perfectly content to try to profit from lies.

  42. HAHAHA noem’s sleeplessness is certainly shared w/her concern for human trafficing which the pope now links to GLOBAL MAN-CAUSED CLIMATE CHANGEHAHAHA in the int’l mayors conf. in rome today. npr

    i look forward to her modernization on that front as well.

  43. Deb Geelsdottir

    Cory, you have done a good job of laying out exactly what is going on here, sans Hickey’s hyperbolic bs.

  44. Porter Lansing

    Mr. Hickey … The discussion is about women’s right to choose. The problem is about Conservatives with a Capital C like you believe you have a right to tell others what to do. You don’t, sir. You have no standing beyond the tip of your male nose; which often seems to be in women’s business. That has a distasteful connotation with perverted implications. Opinions about choice are like nipples. We all have them but women’s are a whole lot more important.

  45. Roger Cornelius

    Hickey has been on a Margaret Sanger kick today, he posted on Facebook a meme showing Hillary supporting Sanger and her courage.
    That meme posted by Hickey was likely created by the Medical Center for Progress or Breitbart and Hickey swallowed that lie too.

  46. Blue living in a red state

    Rep. Hickey,

    “In a way, though, they also did us a favor. Many patients weren’t even aware that they could donate fetal tissue for research before these videos helpfully informed them about it. Donating fetal tissue contributes to invaluable scientific research that cannot be performed with other organ and tissue donations, but the stigma surrounding abortion has made it verboten topic — at the cost of medical advancements. In the midst of efforts to push back on these deceitful videos, we’re missing an opportunity to talk about how, and why, to donate fetal tissue to research. For those considering abortion or those who might need the procedure in the future, thinking ahead of time about the possibility of organ and tissue donation is a smart move, one akin to registering as an organ donor.

    Here’s why to donate to research: Some research can only take place with fetal tissue, as Jessica Mason Pieklo of Reproductive Health Reality Check points out in an interview with Bustle. The American Society for Cell Biology lays out the reasons fetal tissue research is so important, and articulates the huge social benefit to working with these rapidly dividing, highly adaptive cells. The practice is very long established, and the organization points out that fetal tissue could contribute to huge developments for science, like the development of the rubella and varicella vaccines, both of which were invented with fetal cell lines. That’s research we’d be missing out on without generous donations from patients who terminate their pregnancies.”

  47. Deb Geelsdottir

    Porter and Roger, 2 outstanding comments. This woman appreciates you both very much. The truth is there are more men like you two than Hickey and the worthless SD senators.

  48. Mr. Hickey,

    I get it that you are opposed to abortion. Fine. But the science HAS been settled on it. PLUS, doctors (you know, those folks that actually spend years getting training on this?) also disagree with much of the “spin” that is put on the entire abortion debate. I won’t get into a debate with you about what it is, and what it isn’t – because your mind is made up on this. And you know what happens when you try to argue with a brick wall…..

    But I do need to correct you on a few things……first, Hillary Clinton HAS spoken about this (you said she hadn’t)

    And as far as indefensible? Yes, very defensible. Fact checkers out there have whittled this down. And NO, they are not selling fetal tissue for profit. (so you need to stop saying that) In fact, she indeed says that isn’t happening if you look at the entire 3 hour video. Or, did you look at the 7-9 minute heavily edited video to make it appear that way? And to appeal to those that listen to dog whistles?

    And why, if this was “above board” and people were so alarmed about this……why did the folks at “Center for Medical Process” sit on this tape/information for over a year? And why, when some politicians were shown this video 30-45 days ago, and if they was so aghast, did they wait? This faux outrage is just trying tear at people’s emotions…….and falsely at that.

    Planned Parenthood has helped people and their lives, AND no doubt has saved lives based on what they do. I thought you supported saving lives? And to throw the death penalty in there as a comparison? Seriously?

    If we could put all this energy into preventing an unwanted pregnancy in the first place, it would be the key to really driving down abortions. But no, apparently folks like you Mr Hickey, would rather be reactive, rather than proactive. And not make your argument factually. Sad.

    PS – have you ever gotten a vaccine for say…polio? rubela? chicken pox? you might want to see how those vaccines were derived.

    PSS – and there is a little ole thing called the constitution. abortion is legal and a protected right of women. period.

  49. Barry Smith hit the nail on the head. Instead of trying to legislate people’s right to autonomy away, he ought to be trying to change hearts and minds – like Jesus did. And Hickey should stand against lies such as those being spread by the Fictitious Center for Medical Progress, our congressional delegation, and Rep. Hickey himself. No minister should lend himself to a dishonest, ends-justify-the-means distortion campaign. Seek the high ground in your arguments as Barry Smith suggests, Rev. Hickey, and may they bear fruit in the hearts and minds of those in need of Godly guidance.

  50. What?! The faux-news crowd is gullible? subject to easy manipulation? Say it isn’t so . . .

  51. tim johnson

    check out the moral equivalency here: lying to get these videos, vs. dealing with fetal body parts, profit or not. Harvesting organs from unborn humans on massive scale; tons of flesh. Not from an adult who voted to donate their own organs. Taken from an unborn… unborn what? If not for the abortion, “it” would have been born…born something.

    Most of the PP supporters would oppose doing this sort of stuff to kittens or monkeys.
    The moral outrage over the horrible crime of lying to get the videos is like castigating death penalty opponents for breaking parking laws to demonstrate, then lying about it. Heavens, what a sin.
    If, perchance, human fetuses are human beings,(are you certain they are not?) it would be morally defensible to shoot the video at gunpoint….just as it’s morally defensible to use violence against malefactors to save an innocent person.
    check out krauthammer’s column below; he’s no crusader against abortion, generally; and personally could probably use lots of fetal tissue for his own health.

    On another note: nothing is more unscientific than to say “the science is settled;” it’s a slogan used in place of an argument.

    Any strong supporter of abortion should witness an abortion and the disposal of the parts, the careful counting to make sure no fingers or toes are left inside…. is that really OK?

  52. mike from iowa

    A fetus cannot give consent. Children up to the age of nearly 16 are unable to give consent. That must be why people with a vested interest-not right wing politicians-make these decisions. Not hard to understand at all.