Two years ago, Republicans told us to pray for rain. Now Minister-in-Chief Kristi Noem wants us to pray for folks who don’t need any more rain:
Governor Kristi Noem has declared Sunday, April 7, 2019, a Statewide Day of Prayer for South Dakotans affected by the flooding and disastrous conditions.
…“This coming Sunday, I am asking South Dakotans to join me in praying for the well-being of our state, our first responders, and all those who’ve been affected by this disaster,” Noem continued. “By the grace of God, our communities will emerge from this challenge stronger than ever” [Gov. Kristi Noem, press release, 2019.04.04].
I have yet to see God or prayer fill any sandbags. And who put all that snow and water there in the first place?
But carry on.
Bonus Establishment Clause Complaint: By the way, use of the phrase “Year of Our Lord” on official government proclamations is another official affirmation of Christian faith, violating the First Amendment prohibition on establishment of religion. After all, he’s not every sandbagging South Dakotan’s Lord.
Ohhhhhh, my aching ass!
Now that is what I call leadership! (Sarcasm, for those that missed it! ;-)
Oh Kristi. Good ole Kristi.
And the day selected? Sunday. When many South Dakotans already attend church. She will describe her proclamation as a resounding success. Killing two birds with one stone, legislating.
(eye roll)
Cory is right (of course he is) In Spearfish, there is a church group that has an “annual day of service” (there are probably many more that do this sort of thing) As a group, they select a “service” to do for the community. Painting, clean up, etc. A few years ago, they painted the entire interior of the senior center as their service to the community.
Yep. Alot more could be accomplished by rolling up sleeves, than this so-called proclamation.
Kinda ridiculous to live in a state where so many are terrified of shariah law, elect and support people who are bent on having and supporting Christian shariah law without a second thought.
Actually. It’s not ridiculous it’s terrifying.
Praying the gay away has never helped either, so why does she think this will? So funny, SD politics is always entertaining!
I’m not against a little prayer, but it’s always the answer with the Far Right when it comes to real problems they don’t want address.
Wow. Just Wow. Can someone explain to me how the State gets away with something like this? I’m serious. Can you point me to some resources that allow this within the guidelines of separation of religious ideas and government? I want to do my own research and not assume how bad this is.
Yes, it’s always “thoughts and prayers” with Republicans, isn’t it? It’s almost like they really don’t want to have to actually fix anything.
As soon as I see God fill a sandbag, I’ll start praying. Nothing bad can happen, I suppose, from praying, but it’s about as useful as a fart in the wind. You might think a Governor would actually pitch in and help, rather than lifting up her butt cheeks on Sunday.
Donald, a divinely filled sandbag would be a miracle worth noticing.
Governor Noem doing actual work would also be noteworthy, if not divine.
Sharia for Jesus, Kevin, Sharia for Jesus….
But it is dangerous and completely inappropriate when the executive of the state encourages a notion of cause and effect that is nothing more than superstition. Completely contrary to real empowerment.
Per Morning Consult 47% of the USA feels Christian Nationalism is a big threat to the nation.
https://short1.link/QqyjEj
Count me among the 47%.
https://www.the-immoral-minority.com/nearly-half-of-voting-public-sees-christian-nationalism-as-critical-threat-to-interests-of-our-country/
Beat me to the punch, Debbo, Now let’s hear the trolls deny this.
Cory writes:
The Founding Fathers dated the Constitution in the 12th year of our independence and the 1787th year of Jesus Christ, whom they identified as “our Lord”:
https://twitter.com/KurtEvans2018/status/986828347643760641
Heartfelt thanks to Governor Noem. Proclamations like this may not be as influential as they were when most Americans professed traditional Bible Protestantism, but the power of Christ’s death and resurrection is still available to anyone who honestly seeks Him.
The founding fathers had no evidence in the existence of god or jesus.
Roger Cornelius writes:
The historical evidence outside the Bible fully aligns with the historical evidence inside the Bible.
Learn more here:
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/people-cultures-in-the-bible/jesus-historical-jesus/did-jesus-exist/
What physical or empirical evidence did the founding fathers have in the existence of god?
They obviously haven’t read the US Constitution, or First Amendment case law, or George Washington’s letter to the Hebrew congregation – teaching that 4-letter right wing nuts anathema – tolerance.
https://www.argusleader.com/story/opinion/editorials/2019/04/05/editorial-why-state-government-sanctioning-christianity/3377244002/
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Washington/05-06-02-0135
I know that Governor Fiem is grammatically challenged, but can’t we at least expect her to know how to spell her own last name?
Roger Cornelius is right as usual.
South Dakota state government gets away with such things, Mr. Florey, because they lack an opposition party.
Amazon prime has a show called pine ridge (Before the flooding), the governor should watch it. Then visit the ridge now,,,, I suppose prayer will also help those residents???
I bet the residents and friends there are glad for Sunday as well (sarcasm)
Sec. of State website has a search engine for various Proclamations
https://sdsos.gov/general-information/executive-actions/gubernatorial-proclamations/search/
I always thought these tended to be more like a certificate of appreciation (or something like that).
Or bringing awareness to various issues. Then you can do a press release saying, “The Governor filed a Proclamations stating, XYZ Day/John Doe Day in South Dakota…”
Cory, you should send in your own Proclamation and see how it goes.
As your next Governor, I promise never to issue a proclamation urging everyone in South Dakota to respond to a real problem by sitting around muttering to the Fourth Dimension.
cause and effect… real empowerment… Happy Camper gets me thinking: maybe this proclamation is another subtle reinforcement of climate change denialism on behalf of TransCanada and Big Oil. Noem’s proclamation suggests there is nothing real human effort can do to fight the effects of climate change. It’s all God’s will. We can only sit back and accept what He rains down upon us and hope our piety saves us a place on the mountaintop.
Kurt reminds us that even the Founding Fathers made mistakes. Occasional over-godding, fractionating darker folks, excessive suspicion of democracy….
(Ror, I was going to suggest that maybe that great ascending and descending cursive monster was her middle initial, a great swooping L, but that would leave no N.)
Cory
As our next governor I would fully expect you to make available all state resources to any area of the state impacted by any emergency.
If you wish, I would ask you to issue a proclamation calling for a statewide week of volunteering to assist areas impacted by an emergency.
The next proclamation would be to ask god or jesus to knock it off with the bad weather.
I trust that you’ve seen the editorial in the Soo Foo paper about Christian sharia in SD?
“This is part of a national effort called “Project Blitz,” spurred by conservative Christian political groups who are pushing model legislation and other evangelical-based directives on receptive state capitals, with an eye toward greater national influence.”
“Capitol Commission, even handed out Bibles stamped with the South Dakota state seal at a legislative coffee in Pierre in February, a gesture state minister Jarvis Wipf called a “unique gift” for lawmakers.”
1. SD has a “state minister”?!?
2. How much more dominant do Christians want to be in SD?
Matthew 6:5 would probably not be appreciated as a response.
I pray, mostly in thanks for what I have received.
We should pray for those impacted be current or future flooding.
Is a Governor’s Proclamation required? Similar to “thoughts and prayers?”
” If Christianity is to have a future in this country, it needs to become more prophetic and less partisan. It needs to become more dialogical and less evangelical. There needs to be more listening and less preaching, more walking and less talking.”
Carl Kline on the Living Nonviolence blog. (Link is in the blog roll here.)
Roger, as your next Governor, I promise all sorts of activism.
Debbo, Jarvis isn’t on the state payroll; “state minister” is, I think, just a title the private organization gives to its state lobbyists, like Don Haggar is the “state minister” for the Koch Brothers.
mtr: God is Love, Love is God. That’s it. Nothing. No need for stupid self serving egoic certificates. Stop. It’s just stupid.
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2011/06/the_purposeful_flooding_of_americas_heartland.html?fbclid=IwAR0vCeAAbnHm7n_bQcMY9oUO2wkVJPXmB7u5idwHwdrjt2jUOEe_lfEYX8s
I have been studying the above link about the flooding this year.
thanks,
Jerry
There is nothing like a fine Christian calling another human “stupid”.
Jerry27’s imagined white racism translated: white man floods hundreds of square miles of the most productive farming, timbering, and hunting ground held by American Indians along the Missouri River to make electricity and recreation, then complains when houses rich white people build on the new flood plain get wet. Thoughts and prayers, Dakota Dunes….
Jerry27’s source, Joe Herring (middle name Red?) is a GOP hack from Nebraska who in March called for the arrest of all Democrats.
jerry27 lives up to his birth date of 1927. The old feller lives in the past. Here is something a little more up to date, like a few days ago regarding the flooding that No Nothing GNoem wants to pray about. That ship has sailed (get it). The article from the American Stinker is as dated as jerry27 is. Get where the Mr. Remus calls us all out on being the “masters of our environment” These old relic dams need to be taken down to allow the natural flow before the environment does it on its own.
““It’s human nature to think we are masters of our environment, the lords of creation,” said Mr. Remus, who works for the United States Army Corps of Engineers. But there are limits, he said. And the storm last week that caused him so much trouble was beyond what his network of dams can control.
“It was not designed to handle this,” he said.
The storm, the “bomb cyclone” that struck the upper Midwest, dumped its rain onto frozen soil, which acted less like dirt and more like concrete. Instead of being absorbed, water from the rain and melted snow raced straight into the Missouri River and its tributaries.
John Remus operates the six dams built years ago to manage the Missouri River.” New York Times March 21, 2019
Here is fuxknee kristian and fauxknee CIC Drumpf on immigrants- .@realDonaldTrump on people asking for asylum “These aren’t people. These are animals.”
13.8K
5:01 PM – Apr 5, 2019
Maybe Noem can offer a bounty on their tails.
Oh Mike. When I hear Frantic Flaccid Fool talk like that I’d like to rub his face in raw sewage!
For those of you who may be confused by my use of a derogatory name for the president, while excoriating him for calling people “animals,” let me be clear:
I denigrate that dirty bastard in the White House based on his actions. While he’s incredibly cruel and certainly mentally ill, I do not question his humanity. That filthy scum, on the other hand, degrades and endangers an entire very large group of people, describing them as subhuman, because he is deeply racist, because he enjoys being hateful and because his voters like it.
Therefore, my use of epithets that pass DFP muster to adequately name the depraved human being in the White House is very different from his bigotry. Just to be clear.
Debbo, in a biblical sense, I cawt another mouse. Number 6 for the New Year.
If Trump can have his hands-on evangelical holy rollers into the White House repeatedly to pray over him and get away with it, I expect that makes it ok for our copycat governor to perpetrate the same on us SDans.
Praying for relief from circumstances she, her constituents in the ag lobby, and her party created beginning over 50 years ago would seem to be hypocritical. The good lord called all, but particularly leadership, to be good stewards of the creation. If she’s going to pray for anything, it aught to be for forgiveness.
Debbo, just the other day you referred to a whole group of people as semi humans. Your comments are often blatantly sexist and racist. You have often been called a hypocrite on this blog, and your attempt at justifying that hypocrisy falls short of convincing. The only difference between trump’s terrible attitudes and yours is that he has a large ignorant audience fanning his hatred and you just have but a few ignorant cheerleaders.
Debbo, although we sometimes disagree, count me as one of your “few ignorant cheerleaders.” I typically find your comments, interesting, thought provoking and empathetic.
Roger Cornelius is among Debbo’s “ignorant cheerleaders”.
Me three. I’m ignorant and Debbo is my friend.
Roger Cornelius asks:
The first sentence of the Declaration of Independence cites the “Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God” as the foundation of our nation. Not all of the laws of nature are physical, but many of them are.
There’s no logical necessity for the natural world to obey any rules, let alone to abide by detailed rules of mathematics, and the fact that it does is evidence for God’s existence.
“While Buddhism does not argue that gods don’t exist, gods are seen as completely irrelevant to those who strive for enlightenment.
According to Jainism, the universe is eternal, and while gods may exist, they too must be reborn, just like humans are. The gods play no role in spiritual liberation and enlightenment; humans must find their own path to enlightenment with the help of wise human teachers.”
So there ya go, we are all just mystery machines trying to do our best with what our wise human teachers have taught us.
The empirical evidence from Nebraska and other wet heartland places is that God is displeased with his prairie-wrecking followers.
However, for what it’s worth, on this executively declared day of Sharia prayer, Aberdeen enjoyed the sunniest, warmest day of the year so far.
Of course, I didn’t pray a lick, and I got as much sunshine as my pious neighbors.
As an atheist, my favorite Bible verse is where God says this after chastising those who “make a big noise” in praising or thanking Him: “I want to see a might flood of justice, a torrent of doing good.” That might be considered a little smack to Noem’s backside. I’m not big on God, but I do like that idea.
Well, it looks like another huge storm is moving our way this week with wind, rain and snow and, potentially, lots of it. Can we say the day of prayer wasn’t quite effective?
Kurt Evans, with all due respect the first line of the Declaration of Independence is not evidence of god’s existence.
That first sentence is made without foundation.
Not much has changed since the founders created those documents. Just as Kristi sponsoring a statewide day of prayer, the founders words have more to do with want and need.
Cory points out the devastating floods in Nebraska and South Dakota with some of the worst flooding happening on the poverty stricken Pine Ridge Reservation. Evangelicals and Christians hardly ever point to national disasters as god’s work.
“God” is mankind’s way of filling the gaps science does not. I see how religion feels attacked as the realm of science explanation expands – it is a zero sum game in that arena: the more science explains, the more it pushed out the “God” explanation of old. The real issue to me has always been the misapplication of “God” into science. Maybe it’s OK – even better – to say “we do not know – yet” instead of defaulting to “God.”
You’re right O, the problem is the unknown is so vast and inconceivable it will always create the temptation to fill it with absolutes.
The bible was never intended to be a history or science textbook. It’s about faith and a deity. Fact is not a requisite of faith. If it was all about facts, faith would be irrelevant. “Believers” would just need to learn the proper info, like algebraic theorems, to be set. But there’s something about “belief in things not seen” and the like many, many times in the bible.
There’s just no need for Christians to fight about historic or scientific biblical accuracy. They’re 2 entirely different things. Your faith is just fine and absolutely functional without trying to force it into forms it was never made for. Only trouble and diminishing of the faith and the faithful comes from that.
As O said, “The real issue to me has always been the misapplication of “God” into science. Maybe it’s OK – even better – to say “we do not know – yet” instead of defaulting to “God.”
Amen, brother.
Once again Deb desperately tries to shimmy her way into a tight spot that does not exist in order to justify her faith. Pick a lane. You’re too logical to deny it.
Thanks o and Debbo for your logical comments.
Surprisingly I read your comments as very similar in the intent I was seeking.
What are you talking about HC?
Oh get real there’s no Big G on one hand you don’t want women to be submissive to men, but on the other oh heavenly father. This is actually a funny thing about Barbara Bush her son said today she would be President but in her time she “only” wanted to be a mother/husband/supporter.
You’re not making much sense HC. Perhaps you’ve posted this on the wrong topic? Are you trying to respond to a comment I have written here?
I’m not being sarcastic. I’m not following you. I was talking about religion and science. I’m not sure what you’re talking about.
Roger Cornelius writes:
Actually it is, but that isn’t what I said. I said the fact that the natural world obeys rules is evidence for God’s existence. The first sentence of the Declaration of Independence indicates that the Founding Fathers had that evidence.
“o” writes:
Modern science was born amid the rapid spread of traditional Bible Protestantism in the AD 1500s and 1600s, and it has deep roots in the conviction that beauty and order can be discovered in the universe because our loving Creator has put them here. Your suggestion that God and science are in some sense mutually exclusive is very nearly the opposite of the truth.
Evans says, “Your suggestion that God and science are in some sense mutually exclusive is very nearly the opposite of the truth.
Porter says, “For every myth there is an equal and opposite myth.”
-Anyone knowledgeable about the history of science in Europe has reason to question this claim. Christian ideas of the universe are not exclusively Christian ideas. They have their roots in Judaism, are shared by other revealed religions as diverse as Buddhism and Zoroastrianism, and emerge from cultures as widely separated as the Chinese and the Greek. Muslim scholars such as Ibn Sina, Ibn Rushd and others also had a heavy influence on science and culture.
-In fact, everyone involved in bringing science to the world stood upon the shoulders of the scholars who went before. No science leapt, fully formed, from a particular worldview, culture, religion or philosophy. Realistically, the Christian scholars of medieval Europe owed much of their science to the work their Indian, Persian, and Greek forebears incorporated and expanded upon. By the ninth century, there were more volumes of scientific interest translated into Arabic than into Latin or any other language.
-Evans claims, in essence, that science has only one history, one point of origin, and that it can only be understood in one way. It takes only a moment of reflection to grasp that this particular concept of Christianity is light-years from the spirit of belief and faith that inspired the early Christian scientists and philosophers. It reduces both the religion and science of non-Christian scholars to admirable insignificance, devoid of the sort of intellectual quality Christian scholars alone are supposed to possess.
https://bahaiteachings.org/did-christianity-give-birth-to-modern-science
Hi Porter, nice to have you back on DFP. Hopefully this finds you well, my friend.
Kurt, can you quote for me verbatim the first line of the Declaration of Independence.
Hey Porter, you aware of the grdz/lobbyist kerfuffle here?
Hey, Leslie. – Yes. When reading Cory’s post you must read between the lines. His pertinent statement is, “I don’t reveal or deny the name of ANY commenter.” I take that literally. The title of his post was, “Jeremiah E. Murphy is not grudznick.” Of course not. Grudznick is a fictional character. However, I’m 100% convinced that Murphy portrays grudznick and I could convince a jury of it. Grudznick has admitted it, while on his usual Friday night bender. He’s said things that only Murphy would know. But overall, the point is to stop grudz from insulting women. Once that happens, his characterization matters little.
I’d written:
Porter Lansing copy-and-pastes with small but important changes:
All of that was prior to the Copernican revolution, and none of it is conventionally regarded as modern science.
Did you know I was a state-certified high school science teacher, Porter? I wrote a college term paper on the ideological roots of modern science, and I definitely don’t claim that science can only be understood in one way.
Roger Cornelius writes:
“When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to …”
(The rest of the sentence is in the second and third lines.)
Kurt Evans … I know more about you than you’d want me to reveal. One thing is that when backed into an epistemological corner you’re prone to making things up and trying to pass them off as facts.
The fine women on the blog have removed your facade and spanked your ego enough, lately. No need to interrupt their rodeo roping.
Porter Lansing writes to me:
You’re the one who’s prone to reckless lies, Porter, and there’s a definitive example in the comment at this link (@21:44):
https://dakotafreepress.com/2018/10/19/i-♡-amanda-bachmann-so-should-district-24/#comment-118016
John writes:
As I’ve already said above, the Founding Fathers dated the Constitution in the 12th year of our independence and the 1787th year of Jesus Christ, whom they identified as “our Lord”:
https://twitter.com/KurtEvans2018/status/986828347643760641
The Founding Fathers’ concept of religious tolerance was derived primarily from the Bible, but most government-educated Americans today probably don’t even recognize the allusions to the Bible in President Washington’s letter. Here’s the last paragraph with the Bible references I noticed in brackets:
The Founding Fathers almost exclusively professed Protestant Christianity, and they clearly never intended for any version of so-called “religious tolerance” to exclude their own religious views.
Article Six of the United States Constitution provides that “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States”. Prior to the adoption of the Bill of Rights, this was the only mention of religion in the Constitution.
What Washington did with his letter was to welcome a new religion’s house of worship, simple as that.
Jerry writes:
Article VI refers to a test by the government, not by the voter. In the words of Founding Father John Jay, the first chief justice of the Supreme Court, “Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.”
Jerry, Kurt’s point in quoting John Jay is a bit unclear since it is basic that the Constitution limits the activities of our government lawmakers and enforcers rather than citizens.
That said, the Jay quote is from a letter written to John Murry in 1816, over 25 years after the drafting of the Constitution, and does not claim to reflect Jay’s thinking way back then. Hence the letter has little if any probative value on Jay’s intent when the Constitution was proposed.
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Jay
Kurt, I’m not excluding any religious views (although you Wiccans—seriously? Come on!). But the Constitution, even if written mostly by Christians, is written to ensure that no one religious sect becomes the exclusive holder of power or gets to use the government to promote its views.BCB nicely points out that Jay’s comment is not a governing statement, but a preference outside the workings of the Constitution.
America must not define itself exclusively as a Christian nation. Its robustness depends on inclusivity.
The thing you have to accept Cory, a lot of these small groups don’t want inclusiveness. Only within their own set of narrow beliefs or others to subscribe to them. They use the U.S. to do their own thing and set their own priorities. Under a much larger tent of shared American values you would say, but some of these small groups (and bigger groups) don’t subscribe to that as you do. Away from religion how about the NRA. Are they willing to comply with most of America’s values? No. Are they dangerous? Yes. Too much untethered liberalness there would have chaos. There has to be a set of shared rules to go into the big tent.
Kurt, the Jay remark reminds me of a time when Catholics were seen as bad political candidates, even through the Kennedy campaigns. One fear was that Catholic leaders would take “orders” from the Pope. Under your paradigm of religious conviction make a man “good,” would this be an asset to you now as a voter? When the Pope speaks of taking in our neighbor, when the Pope speaks of obscene wealth being a cardinal sin, are those policy directives a good Catholic candidate ought to pursue for this nation?
O … It’s mostly about women’s rights. Geo W. Bush’s election was won because he lied to and secured the Born Again Christian vote. Romney lost because Born-Agains don’t believe Mormons are Christian. Trump also won with this extremist evangelical voting block and will no doubt do it again. They overlook everything else and support Trump because he claims to be anti-abortion (even though he’s paid for six of them among his girlfriends).
O, the whole Catholic thing was a HUGE issue during JFK’s run for the Presidency. And he had to make a formal speech about it, promising to serve the country, not the Pope.
I’d written to Jerry:
“bearcreekbat” writes:
Or at least the part of the Constitution under discussion here does. That was exactly my point in quoting Jay.
*Murray
From September of 1787 to October of 1816 was just over 29 years, but Jay’s earlier writings show very little change in his thinking.
Your suggestion that Jay couldn’t have remembered the Founding Fathers’ intent less than 30 years later is absurd.
Cory writes:
If that had been the point “bearcreekbat” was making, I’d have agreed, but Jay said it’s the duty of the American people to select Christians for our rulers, and both Jerry and “bearcreekbat” seemed to suggest that evaluating potential officeholders on a religious basis was not merely “outside” the Constitution but contrary to it.
“o” writes to me:
No, as a traditional Bible Protestant, I definitely wouldn’t regard taking orders from the pope as an asset.
Did you intend for the word good to modify Catholic or candidate in that question? I’ll let the pope define a good Catholic, but a good candidate of any religion should recognize that government has no business trying to define “obscene” wealth or forcing anyone to take in his or her neighbors.
Kurt, do you think a government has any business defining “obscenity.”
Kurt has incorrectly described the meaning of my comments. Nothing that I wrote was intended to suggest either
or
I think I was pretty clear in my comments, so I see no productive reason to further explain the meaning of these comments unless there are some further questions or discussion about them.
Fat is fat, Bob. You’ve seen me, and I’m fat. Mr. Evans isn’t fat. Government doesn’t need to define it.
Oh, I thought you said “obesity.” Nevermind.
Bob Newland asks:
At the state level, yes, but mainly just as it relates to children or involuntary exposure.