I didn’t get around to watching Saturday Night Live‘s pre-election show until last night (ah, the asynchronicity of Internet living!). But Michael Che’s observation from the other end of the brain-drain pipeline is worth repeating for Democrats wishing South Dakota weren’t so Republican:
I know a lot of white liberals are probably watching this and blaming me for not voting. But it’s not my fault. They’re the ones wasting their vote in places like New York.
You’re not even from here. If you really wanna make a difference, why don’t you go back to Ohio, Megan, or wherever your parents are paying your rent from, and vote there? That’s where it counts. You know how those red states stay so red? By sending all their liberal kids to coastal cities to study improv [Michael Che, “Weekend Update,” Saturday Night Live, 2018.11.03, transcribed on Huffington Post, 2018.11.05].
Funny to hear Michael Che sounding a lot like our own David Newquist in recognizing the pattern of emigration. But I’ll suggest Mom and Dad probably aren’t having to send rent subsidy checks. New York is a bit spendy, but hop across to New Jersey or several other coastal states—or for that matter to four of the six states bordering our prairie paradise—and household income adjusted for cost of living is higher than in South Dakota. And since young people don’t need a car to get around New York City and other civilized urban realms, they can stretch their paychecks even further than they can on the sparse prairie, where even our biggest towns are laid out with an apparent disregard for foot power (try walking to anything in the 57th and Louise commerce-plex).
But don’t be put off by Che’s teasing, young progressives. He may be bothered (as those of us who keep the faith back home) that you leave your home states in the hands of hypocritical religious zealots, but he and the coasts are glad you’re there buying tickets to their shows and boosting their diverse economy and culture.
It’s a valid observation, but let’s not forget that the polarization of politics is, possibly, the bigger factor. No longer can you be a pro-life, fiscally conservative Democrat, or a Conservative that holds industry responsible for polluting our drinking water, and is against his moderately abusive next-door neighbor having an arsenal of guns in his basement.
You have to pick a side, and conform, or gradually get brainwashed into conforming.
I think the commitment to more Urban-centric policies has hurt Democrats here in rural SD. OTOH, the commitment to conspiracy theories has hurt Republicans among the college-educated, the intelligent, and those that believe in science everywhere. But especially in cities and suburbs.
I was reading an essay in the December 2018 Atlantic magazine this morning. Joan C. Williams, a self-described white liberal law professor, decided to look at the issue of white working class people/voters.
From the article “The Democrats’ White People Problem”:
“‘Why not just wait for the white working class to die off?’ asked an audience member at last year’s Berkeley Festival of Ideas. I get this question a lot, and I always reply: ‘Do you understand now why they voted for Trump? Your attitude is offensive, and Trump is their middle finger.'”
TAG said, “No longer can you be a pro-life, fiscally conservative Democrat.”
I think the “pro-life” part would indeed be very difficult, but you’re entirely wrong about fiscal conservatism. Democrats are the party of fiscal responsibility. We are the ones who clean up GOP excesses of spending, cutting, etc, and get the budget back in balance.
I think I have mentioned before that I have a trumpelstilskin cousin in Missouri whom I like and love. She believes all the conspiracy theories, “deep state” hallucinations, etc. I have no idea how to reach her because she is not at all fact based. I don’t know how to help other trumpelstilskins like her either.
The best thing I know to do is ask them what they physically need in their part of the world, then hope to discuss ways to bring that about.
“You have to pick a side, and conform, or gradually get brainwashed into conforming.” Problem is no political group wants you to think too much on your own they want their members to toe the line, other than Libertarians, Classical Liberals, that’s like herding cats.
Dems have moved WAY to the left, gosh, Nancy Pelosi again Speaker time to get rid of that dinosaur she ain’t worth the trouble.
leave it to the camper to give the advice on Democrats.
That dinosaur raised nearly $50 million for congressional campaigns this past election cycle that helped Democrats take commanding control of the House.
republicans need to do something about that orange dinosaur in the White House that is poised to do more damage to this nation than Nancy Pelosi ever could.
The real question for men is why they are so threatened by Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton.
So Democrats do care about money the obvious problem both parties just want power Trump has no ideology other than opportunism Republicans begrudgingly accepted him just to keep power both parties are corrupt Nancy is poster girl for term limits politics corrupts it just becomes the desire for power and to keep it.
HC, what crimes has Nancy Pelosi committed or been rationally accused of? What policies has Nancy Pelosi pushed that resulted in greater hardship for the bottom 25% of the population? Which of her policies have blown up the budget?
Speaker Pelosi has served as an excellent Congresswoman to the benefit of the USA. Righties like to complain about her, but lack specifics. She hasn’t been perfect, but Speaker Pelosi has done quite well.
If we want to talk about a representative or senator who’s been horrendous for this country, we can easily begin with Chinless Wonder McTurtle. Pootie is very happy with that traitor.
BTW, there are a few Democrats well over on the left side of the Left. They’re led by Bernie Sanders with Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez right beside him. Most Democrats are center Left, having moved there in the last couple years from the right side of the Left. There are still a few Democrats on the right side of the Left.
The Democratic Party as a whole has returned to center Left, where it belongs. Now if the GOP would move from the extreme right precipice of their flat earth to the Republican Party of Eisenhower and even Nixon, in addition to jailing their traitors, the USA would be if great shape again.
Definition “Democrat”: The poor led by the rich to stay poor so the rich stay rich.
She’s out of touch with Middle America and the flyover states.
Higher-up Democrats just give lip service to get votes they don’t care no different from union management.
Speaking of lip service, now there is this for all you insecure campers.
“From boasting about the size of his penis on national television to releasing records of his high testosterone levels, President Trump’s rhetoric and behavior exude machismo. His behavior also seems to have struck a chord with some male voters. See, for example, the “Donald Trump: Finally Someone With Balls” T-shirts common at Trump rallies.
But our research suggests that Trump is not necessarily attracting male supporters who are as confidently masculine as the president presents himself to be. Instead, Trump appears to appeal more to men who are secretly insecure about their manhood. We call this the “fragile masculinity hypothesis.” Here is some of our evidence.” Washington Post 11/30/2018
Absolutely nails the SDGOP and those who put their “fragile manhood’s” into office. No wonder NOem won, she was wearing pants in her political ads along with a masculine hat!! Perfect read, check it out
“The authors report 5 studies that demonstrate that manhood, in contrast to womanhood, is seen as a precarious state requiring continual social proof and validation. Because of this precariousness, they argue that men feel especially threatened by challenges to their masculinity. Certain male-typed behaviors, such as physical aggression, may result from this anxiety. Studies 1-3 document a robust belief in (a) the precarious nature of manhood relative to womanhood and (b) the idea that manhood is defined more by social proof than by biological markers. Study 4 demonstrates that when the precarious nature of manhood is made salient through feedback indicating gender-atypical performance, men experience heightened feelings of threat, whereas similar negative gender feedback has no effect on women. Study 5 suggests that threatening manhood (but not womanhood) activates physically aggressive thoughts. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2016 APA, all rights reserved)” http://psycnet.apa.org/record/2008-16429-006
Perfectly explains The Russian, Prickly PEARson and of course, Jason and the I cannot’s
Happy Camper and Old Sarge are simply repeating the same republican party propaganda of years past, I’ve heard all the claims so many times that I have to make sure I don’t start believing them myself, as republicans have done.
Jerry,
Your comment at 21:30 hours is epic and rightfully stated.
Exactly Roger. Cheap shots come when there is no rational rebuttal.
Jerry, I saw a bit of that article elsewhere. Women are more confident in our gender. I think we have more room for variation than males do. I think it would be nice for them to broaden the role expectations so men could relax and be themselves, rather than be concerned about “being a man.”
Oh goodness gracious this gay man has very big hands!!! This is not about admiring Trump, he’s a scumbag of highest proportions but is right in certain very limited ways that you chose to deny.
Oooo, pretty fakey righteous indignation camper, please. Don’t be frightened of Ms. Pelosi. She is a tough lady that knows her way around both gay and straight men who are not worried about their packages. Be calm, Nancy has this.
Not frighted just think as many do it’s time for her to go including those within her own party she loves position above party garnered enough votes her last one before her face falls off.
No, you’re scared of that gal because she gets the job done. It’s okay, be calm. You’re biting your nose off to spite your face, which is typical of the spooky Republican. Boo
WRONG did you see that picture of Pelosi and Trump smiling at one another like a couple of lovers they don’t care about anything other than money and power you’re just stupid pawns.
Speaker Pelosi has known Orange Imbecile for decades and she knows how to play him. She’s one of the many elders who’ve gotten wiser with age. There is no given correlation between increasing years and decreasing intelligence.
I’m still waiting for you, HC, to name the terrible things the Speaker has done. Or is it that you just don’t like those lovely lines on her feminine face? Just asking. 😁
They always ask for specifics when you’re speaking your mind to find a technicality and dismiss she’s no wise elder she’s just old like Mr. Orangutan both want to keep their power nothing more neither will be swinging from the trees much longer.
“They always ask for specifics when . . . ” they think you’re just making up crap off the top of your head.
So now I know. You just don’t like her because you just don’t like her, even though her policies are good. Thank you for inadvertently clearing that up.
G’night HC.
No Deb they are just flip sides of the same coin they understand each other perfectly she’s no better you just want her to be I dislike both.
Say, what actual “urban-centric” policies have Democrats pushed that have alienated or actually hurt rural America?
Food stamps? In addition to making the Farm Bill possible, food stamps serve higher percentages of rural and small-town populations that they do in big cities.
What is an “urban” policy that hurts “rural” America?
And is it Democrats’ fault (or do Democrats get the credit?) for making Minneapolis and New York big, vibrant cities that offer more job and cultural opportunities than Aberdeen and Winner?
I think I heard that food stamps have been left alone in the latest farm bill.
happy camper
2018-11-30 at 22:05
Not frighted just think as many do it’s time for her to go including those within her own party she loves position above party garnered enough votes her last one before her face falls off.
Do I detect some hate and bias?
Is cosmetic surgery an anti-rural policy?
David Newquist would say that such hate and bias is more prevalent here in small-town South Dakota than it is in the urban places where Michael Che teases the red-state kids for moving.
Corey asked: “…what actual “urban-centric” policies have Democrats pushed that have alienated or actually hurt rural America?”
When I said “hurt Democrats in rural SD” I obviously meant figuratively hurt their re-election chances, not a literal hurt. But I think you knew that.
There are many media and academic sources that have commented about the urban-rural divide, as it relates to our two-party system. And how Urban areas are becoming more blue and Rural areas are becoming more red. Especially here in the upper midwest. That much is clear and demonstrable.
As to the reasons for that change, that is up for debate. Even if you disagree with the view some people have that the Democratic party has shifted focus away from rural america, your disagreement isn’t going to change their view or their vote. Showing people how wrong or stupid they are doesn’t resonate with voters. Validating their concerns does.
Here is one of many recent articles on the subject:
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/411172-how-americas-urban-rural-divide-is-changing-the-democratic-party
“rural communities feel less connected to the Democratic Party that for so long has been their political home. Now, those communities are turning red. Trump won 19 Minnesota counties that voted for Obama in both 2008 and 2012.”
TAG, I agree with you about the perception and there are plenty of media items to reinforce that perception. The rightwing faux media works very hard at it, taking advantage of the relative isolation of rural folks. With no personal experience of Muslim people, it’s easier to believe they are wild, evil terrorists if that’s all they see in the media they use.
It’s also easier to believe that Democrats are all New York and California “elites” if all they see on those media sources is Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi. (Personally, I think Schumer needs to go. He’s way too accommodating of moneyed interests.)
So small state Democrats need to be made more visible by the party, do more interviews, hold more leadership positions, etc.
Minnesota is a midsized state, I think, with 2 Democratic senators and 5 Democratic representatives. How about Nevada? Texas? There are purple and pink/red states who’ve sent Democrats to DC. I think Tammy Duckworth and Tammy Baldwin need more air time.
In the meantime, Democrats in the House need to craft legislation to bolster small, rural states. Health care, broad band, farming and protecting Soc Sec and Medicare would be good places to start, imo.
OldSarge said: “Definition “Democrat”: The poor led by the rich to stay poor so the rich stay rich”
That’s actually a pretty apt description of Trump-style fake populism. Just substitute “Working-class whites” for “The poor” and you have it.
Real populism has a long history in the rural upper midwest. Those that actually want to curb corruption and influence from the rich in American politics are the figures hated and derided in conservative media. Like Sanders and Warren.
Trump has shown loyalty to anyone willing to agree with him and give fealty. Regardless of how corrupt or not. Good job with the swamp.
Sure, but I’m asking what if any policy really supports that perception that Democrats do things to harm rural America. As Michael Che suggests, rural America harms itself by failing to provide sufficient opportunity for progressive young people. The only way in which rural voters can blame Democrats for that is not that Democrats have passed anti-rural policies or that Democrats don’t fight for rural interests in Washington (Trump is the one getting rid of GIPSA, which protects rural producers from Big Ag monopoly) but that Democrats have simply moved to New York and Minneapolis, leaving their rural home communities denuded of youthful creative energy.
Maybe that’s what’s really going on with the rural/urban split: rural folks are bitter about their kids leaving, so they strike back at those liberal kids by voting for their anti-youth, anti-progressive, anti-urban icon… a rich jerk from Manhattan who’s never milked a cow or hefted a hay bale in his life. Good grief, the self-destructive hypocrisy to which anxiety and bitterness can drive human beings!
Corey, there are two very specific and local examples in the article I linked. The mining area of northeast Minnesota has gone red mainly because they blame a loss of jobs to Obama policies.
Also farmers throughout Minnesota feel they have been harmed by state level policies regarding mandatory wetland buffers. Now I personally am very much in favor of wetland buffers, but in certain parts of Minnesota the wetlands are so dense that mandatory buffers in every direction severely impacts the amount of land taken out of production. This disproportionate impact compared to farmers in less wetland-filled areas makes people resentful.
They feel like state government is not considering them, and only focusing on a zero-tolerance wetland protection policy. Things like this turn people’s opinions against environmental protection in rural areas.
Rather than preaching to them how bad they are for wanting to pollute wetlands, maybe the policy should be to listen to their concerns build in some concessions for farmers that are disproportionately impacted.
TAG, you have a very good point in your last paragraph about the wetlands policy. I support it too and MN’s rivers and lakes need attention due to pollution. A balance must be struck for farmers most impacted.
For many environmental issues, farmers are going to be most affected. If their goal is to be left alone, that’s not going to be an option. How can the DFL satisfy them, yet do our part to save the planet?
Sometimes the differences are in how the same programs are administered geographically by GOP and Democratic administrations. In education, an example I’m somewhat familiar with, reaching underprivileged students with grant-funded programs has a decidedly urban focus in Democratic administrations and a more rural focus in Republican ones. NOTE: I am not using an “all or none” lens here, but rather where the funding and programmatic emphasis is placed.
Debbo said “How can the DFL satisfy them, yet do our part to save the planet?”
I guess I don’t have the answer to that. Some farmers have become so anti-environmentalist and anti-government that trying to appease them is pointless. Some farmers have such a strong land-ethic that they see the wisdom in sustainable practices, and some are in the middle. There is diversity of opinion there, just as there is in the city.
I will say that most farmers are very independent. They take pride in being their own boss, and being self-reliant. Generally speaking, policies that have opt-in versus mandates are far less irritating to them. So the approach matters. I think just talking and negotiating with farmers advocacy groups could be a start.
To me it goes without question that protecting our natural resources like soil and water is in the best interests of farmers and their children that have to deal with the consequences of soil erosion, pollution, etc. At the end of the day, I think most farmers know this, and want to preserve the quality of the land for their descendants.
The solution for this, and many other things IMO, is compromise, concession, empathy, etc. try to see things from the other perspective. Try to let both sides feel like they have gotten something from the negotiation, rather than the majority winner ramming things down the other’s throat. JMO
Education—interesting: the Trump/DeVos policy of school choice would seem to focus on urban and suburban areas rather than rural areas, where there aren’t many schools to choose from.
Coal—also interesting. The miners are wrong, of course: Obama didn’t kill coal; gas, tech, and the economy did. Miners can use Democrats as a scapegoat if they want to deceive themselves, but I feel no obligation to accommodate false views in policy or politics. Coal miners blaming Democrats for their lost jobs are wrong, and they are pining for a return to the wrong industry. Democrats offered them job retraining for industries with a future; if miners are too stubborn to accept facts and the future, well, tough shiskey. The country must not be run by false beliefs and bad ideas.
Cory said, “if miners are too stubborn to accept facts and the future, well, tough shiskey.”
Yes, but, should Democrats write off miner votes? How can Dems earn miner votes? Can we show them that utilities won’t burn their coal even if they do mine it? Maybe if we create better health and safety systems for them, impacts that are direct and visible, that would have an impact. Or ? ? ?
How do we counteract rightwing propaganda? I think we must have boots on the ground so they can see our faces, be personal witnesses, record their own phone videos, engage personally.
In the mid 80s I worked cutting up hogs at the Swift plant in Huron. One summer as we were leaving the plant Tom Daschle was at the gate shaking hands, answering questions, etc. Just him. No entourage, no reporters. It was impactful. We talked about him for the next several days, reciting conversations and Tom’s thoughts. He got some votes out of it and respect even when he didn’t get votes.
Cory:
That one recent policy may seem so, but the history more generally is the alignment of education initiatives with the constituencies of the administration’s party and, to a lesser extent, the constituencies of key legislators with oversight of education appropriations. It’s also crucial, especially now, to pay attention to the choices and issues that are *not* being reported as controversial or “major”. A headline (or Tweet) can obscure more than it draws attention to.
They don’t mine coal in Minnesota, but thanks again for not reading the article.
I wasn’t referring only to Minnesota. I was thinking of West Virginia, Pennsylvania, etc.
It’s better to ask, rather than assume.
Sorry, I was referring to Corey’s comment. I’ll try to be more clear.
No problem.
Sorry, TAG—you’re right: I need to heed my own admonishments to click and read first, rebut second.
Iron mining jobs appear to be in long-term decline, since the Reagan Administration. Chinese dumping is just the latest factor contributing to losses from automation. Democrats offer all sorts of policies, most fundamentally education, to help miners and communities recover from those job losses.
I’m not suggesting we write off any votes. I’m suggesting we campaign on the superior policies we offer. As Debbo and Michael suggest, we need to make that case and overcome the angry Trumpist noise that gets desperate people to vote on their emotions instead of reason. Democrats need to make clear all the ways we have helped and are trying to help rural America and all the ways that Republican policies leave rural and urban America in decline.
But if voters still choose to vote on their patriarchal id instead of facts, well, I can’t change that, and I can’t force their progressive neighbors and kids to stick around in places where their fact-based, rational arguments will be heard and respected.