Contrary to Senator Mike Rounds’s partisan complaint that the House of Representatives isn’t getting anything done, Democratic and Republican Representatives are working together to pass legislation of keen interest to South Dakota. Just yesterday, the House Judiciary Committee passed a bill granting amnesty to all the undocumented immigrant workers whom South Dakota dairies, hog farms, and other agricultural corporations employ and exploit.
H.R. 5083, the Farm Workforce Modernization Act, is long and complicated. But the very first sections appear to authorize the Secretary of Agriculture to grant “certified agricultural worker status” to any foreign applicant who has done farm work here for at least 180 work days over the last two years, even if that person is “inadmissible or deportable.” The Secretary can also grant legal status to any such worker’s dependent spouse and children. Some grounds for inadmissibility remain, but H.R. 5083 allows the Secretary to waive several of those restrictions “for humanitarian purposes, family unity, or if otherwise in the public interest.”
Certified agricultural worker/dependent status issued under this law would be good for five and a half years. They would not be eligible for means-tested public benefits, certain tax benefits, or Affordable Care Act premium subsidies. They can renew their status as long as they didn’t get in under a waiver from the Secretary and keep working for ag outfits.
Certified agricultural workers can apply for permanent residency if they’ve been here for at least ten years and work another four years under certified agricultural worker status under this law. Foreign farm laborers who’ve been here less than ten years can apply for permanent residency once they put in eight years of farm labor. That qualifying labor must be at least 100 work days each year. The workers’ spouses and children can also get permanent residence at the same time; they can also apply independently for permanent residence if their spouse/parent dies or if they’ve been “battered or subjected to extreme cruelty by the certified agricultural worker.”
The Farm Workforce Modernization Act would also terminate removal proceedings against any foreigner who appears to be eligible to apply under this certified agricultural worker or spouse status. So all those hundreds of workers ICE rounded up in Mississippi back in August could be back processing our chickens the day this bill becomes law.
Employers who provide records of their illegal employment of undocumented workers to support those workers’ applications for certified agricultural worker status also get amnesty.
H.R. 5038 also opens up H-2A temporary worker visas, throws subsidies at rural rental units for farm workers, adds some regulation of recruiters of foreign workers, and imposes electronic worker verification rules on agricultural employers.
According to Vox, this legislation could affect 325,000 undocumented farm workers.
The ag industry is quite happy to see H.R. 5038 move toward the floor:
“Throughout the U.S., agriculture is experiencing a critical shortage of labor that jeopardizes our ability to continue producing an abundant, safe and affordable domestic food supply,” said Western Growers in a statement on Thursday.
“Securing a reliable and skilled workforce is critical to the future viability of America’s family farms.”
…the U.S. Apple Association spoke out about the importance of time for the bill.
“Time is of the essence and our growers cannot wait another harvest season for relief. We urge Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., to schedule a vote by the full House of Representatives this calendar year,” it said [“U.S.: Farm Workforce Modernization Act Passage Welcomed by Industry,” Fresh Fruit Portal, 2019.11.21].
The horticulturalists’ lobby (you know, greenhouses, nurseries) says this bill is good for the rural economy:
What happens on the farm doesn’t stay on the farm; the work contributions of each farm worker create and sustain two to three job opportunities in the surrounding economy. Rural areas across the country benefit from the jobs and economic opportunity that farm workers create, so long as we are growing and producing labor-intensive crops and commodities here in America [Craig Regelbrugge, in “What Is the Farm Workforce Modernization Act?” Growing Produce, 2019.10.31].
Labor supports this bill, too:
This bill is a milestone that will help bring stability to farm workers and their families and to the agricultural industry. No longer will children worry whether their moms and dads are coming home from work. The bill addresses the pervasive fear faced every day by the immigrant farm workers who perform one of the toughest jobs in America. The bill also includes significant new protections and rights for groups of farm workers previously excluded from basic rights [Jocelyn Sherman, “Immigration: Farm Workforce Modernization Act of 2019,” United Farm Workers, 2019.11.05].
Prime sponsor Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren (D-CA) has 27 Democratic cosponsors and 24 Republican cosponsors. Our man Dusty Johnson is not among them, but Minnesota’s Peterson and Craig have signed on.
If Senator Rounds is serious about seeing Congress get things done for South Dakota, he’ll quit pushing his plan to favor rich foreigners and coastal real estaters with his rollback of EB-5 reforms and instead call Dusty, tell him to hurry the Farm Workforce Modernization Act through the House, and rally his Senate colleagues to veto-proof approve this bill to give South Dakota farms, CAFOs, and processing plants the stable, legal labor force they need.
Immigant workers are good for America all the way around. The snake in the woodpile may be the activist wingnut majority of the SPOTUS.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/11/supreme-court-criminalize-immigration-advocacy-sineneng-smith.amp
Immigrant advocacy may become illegal.
These legal workers should have access to the same benefits that we have. What if they get sick?
Denying anyone means-tested public benefits, certain tax benefits, or Affordable Care Act premium subsidies is just revenge against people who work harder, endure more hardships, and don’t complain like Republicans do. America isn’t a zero sum country. Helping others doesn’t take anything away from you although those with such low self esteem would be surprised how much helping the needy improves how you feel about yourself.
A farm related note. I get a weekly email from my Congresswoman, Angie Craig, D-MN2. Here’s one of the items she’s been working on:
“This week, on National Rural Health Day, I took time to recognize the unique challenges our rural communities face when accessing quality healthcare. Clinic wait times are untenable and resources are often scarce, and I’m working on several efforts to change that, including the bipartisan Seeding Rural Resilience Act to increase mental health resources for farmers and rural communities across Greater Minnesota, and expanding the use of telemedicine to increase healthcare options for rural communities.”
Is Dustmop a cosponsor? Doing anything similar? Breathing? How about the senators?
Farm workers on all levels better grab for all the help they can get. Economic Oaf has thoroughly trashed our economy and harmed others worldwide.
“Bridgewater, the world’s biggest hedge fund, has bet more than $1 billion that stock markets around the world will fall by March, the Wall Street Journal scoops.”
Mike Allen, Axios
Just when you think the effects of Inept Idiot’s trade war can’t get worse, they do.
“Big retailers like Bed, Bath and Beyond, Target, and TJX Brands are refusing to accept tariff price increases from their brand suppliers, telling the companies they will have to either eat the tariff costs or find another buyer.
“Why it matters: This forces the costs of President Trump’s trade war with China down to smaller businesses that can hardly afford them, while the big companies keep the impact of tariffs at bay.
“The hard line being taken by the bigger players could be enough to shutter smaller retailers. Without tariff relief or the ability to pass on the 10-25% price increase they face, some small businesses say they will likely have to close within a year or so.
“The state of play: After the next round of tariffs — scheduled for Dec. 15 — is implemented, nearly every product traded between the U.S. and China will be affected.”
Mike Allen, Axios
Mike, that Slate link is frightening. Just what Pootie wants from his GOP boys.
Well, I guess the farmers that have been telling their kids to get the hell out of this business for decades now have been right. If they stick around on the farm they will be competing with low wage illegals from outside our borders.
Really makes that wall look stupid now doesn’t it.
Of course it’s bipartisan!
My son’s friend that is trying to compete against mega dairies and pays his family for help rather than illegal’s will be happy to hear this.
Clyde the families I know no way compete with the “illegals”
They drive the dodge pickups and. Kids have mill houses BECAUSR of the illegals. There is no way their dairy farms would work if they had to have “competitive pay” especially in this trade war
T,If you think small dairies aren’t competing with the mega dairies you can’t do simple math. Same goes for the vertically integrated hog industry. It all comes down to way too much money at the top and a bought and payed for government. It’s one big race to the bottom for anyone but the 1%.
I love it when Clyde wakes up full of hate and racism. It’s himself that his subconscious is mad at and that’s only right. You deserve to be an unhappy bigot. Hope it ruins your whole weekend. Kick your dog and berate your wife. That’ll make you a man.
Clyde I didn’t say say small aren’t competing with big
I’m saying families I know are living larger because of illegals
They may not be employing 30 but just 2-3-4-5 employees saves huge on payrolls
“Illegals” aren’t just for the “big” guys in ag ,,,,……
T, I think you are wrong. Just the fact that illegal’s are here taking low pay drives down the standard of living in the mid-west. If the mega dairies and giant hog houses weren’t hiring these people all the prices of commodities would have to go up. The ridiculous argument that they are doing the jobs that American’s won’t do goes on. Farm kids did these jobs and didn’t mind them a bit when they could make a decent living doing them!
Porter, your comments deserve a response that I unfortunately can’t type on this forum!
I am not a racist and have friends that are of the race you are alluding to. I am deeply hateful of what this country has done to rural America and those that have done it. I don’t blame the immigrants. I blame those that import them! It’s NOT humanitarian reason’s that open borders are being touted!
It’s your crappy self-esteem, Clyde. In order to feel better than the worthless cuss you are you need some group of people to imagine to be better than. Now they’re not even “illegal” anymore. You’re really nothing now, aren’t you Clyde? Better get some whiskey and drown the demons.
So, Clyde, how much do we have to pay to get local residents to stay and work at the CAFOs? Is Bernie’s $15 minimum wage enough?
How did we evolve to the point that our entire food production system depends on subsidizing producers who refuse to pay a fair-market wage? And why would we blame the workers who come to do the jobs we won’t rather than blaming the root cause, the farm owners who pay those cheapskate wages and the government (which is us) that facilitates those unfairly low wages?
Porter’s comments don’t deserve a response and I’m not getting into that game.
Cory, its not how much you have to pay local’s to work at the CAFO’s but the fact that this country SHOULDN’T HAVE the CAFO’s! We continue to push the “cheap food at any cost” policy. Let’s take it to fruition! One person owning all of the food production! What will the country eat then and what will it cost? Since that “greatest” of all conservative presidents was elected, R Reagan, rural America has been destroyed! The cheapest housing in the country ought to be a indicator. All of the small town’s are in the process of becoming ghost town’s if they haven’t already. Easily 90% of farmers have gone out of business and America happily gobbles food contaminated with herbicides.
Clyde – I don’t analyze your continued bigotry (labeling certain humans as illegal) to get a response. I do it to make you think of why you’re this way. Sure, you grew up watching Grandpa McCoy belittle and demean the hired Mexican, Pepino and thought it was funny. You used the “N” word with glee until you were embarrassed to do it anymore. You called gay men that word that begins with “F” until you were embarrassed to do it anymore. You’re in a pattern of hate that comes from something that some male did to you as a kid but you’re not a victim, so quit acting like it.
A little more, Cory. Actually I don’t like the idea of a $15 minimum wage. I don’t think that will help the farmers that are still left in this business and I’ll bet the CAFO’s hiring illegals will figure out a way to not have to pay it. Just as they are now figuring out a way to keep their illegal work force.
WAAAAY too much money in the hands of too few people and a bought and payed for government!
I’ve got better things to do.
Clyde … City people interact with multi numbers of races, cultures, and ethnicities on a daily basis. SD farmers however do not. We have a little test to tell ourselves if we’re behaving like a racist. And, you Clyde don’t pass it. Here it is, paco.
~ Do you say things around white people that you wouldn’t say to the face of a 30 year old Mexican? Would you have the courage to get face to face with that Mexican man and call him “illegal” to his face? It’s an easy test. You know that if you said that racist word, you’d walk away (if you could) with a broken face. So, you see labeling a human as illegal is just cowardly bullying. Next Mexican you see go up to him and call him an “illegal”, big mouth. See what happens to rural racists when they confront international reality.
Porter is absolutely right in his analysis of Clyde’s language.
It always makes me gag when someone says “I’m not a racist” and in the same breath repeatedly uses dehumanizing labels to describe complete strangers of a particular ethnicity.
Clyde can deny it to himself and others, but the use of such labels speaks much louder than the denials. People who continue to use this dehumanizing language to describe men, women and children, despite having been repeatedly informed about the pain such labels causes those labeled, cannot credibily deny racist conduct by claiming they have “friends” of the same ethnicity of the people they regularly defame.
Porter’s description of Clyde’s racism is supported by this objective evidence, while Clyde’s denials are contrary to the factual evidentiary value of observing a person’s actual conduct. In other words, as Groucho Marx once asked, and Trump asks every day, “Who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?”
BCB … Clyde does it because he knows he can get away with it as long as he stays behind the “White Curtain”. He wouldn’t be so brave if he went to Mpls/St.Paul and acted out his racism.
Before you folks concentrate on doing anything other than calling me a racist you need to actually read what I and Cory wrote. As he stated “How did we evolve to the point that our entire food production system depends on subsidizing producers that refuse to pay a fair-market wage?” He alludes to the workers coming to do the jobs that we won’t which I completely disagree with. The folks that are out here always did those jobs and didn’t mind them a bit till what they were being payed to do them seemed meaningless.
We were in the egg business and the hog business till vertical integrators took over. Dad always said that if you are working on a contract you are doing nothing but paying for your job and you may as well go and try to get a GOOD paying job with better hours. We never went contract. We are still in the beef business but that has to compete with any country in the world willing to sell it cheaper.
This country needs to have a national dialog on just how they want their food produced. If the only consideration is cheap then, I guess, the road we are on is whats best for them until they realize that it’s not healthy or cheap anymore.
Clyde is right about one thing: “It all comes down to way too much money at the top.”
Immigrant labor is not responsible for that, but Clyde’s racism, as Porter and BCB point out, will not allow him to rail at the white men at the top, so he screams about the brown immigrants.
Clyde, what do you do to stop CAFOs? (BTW, I’m in complete agreement about the problem of ag concentration in CAFOs and mega dairies, etc.) Do you contact your state legislators, Rep. Dustmop, Sens. Thin and Roundy? Do you attend hearings?
Or do you just cry about the immigrants who bear no responsibility for or control over the issue?
Sorry, Clyde, but you will never hire enough Americans to do the grunt work of corporate farming. California growers raised wages substantially a few years ago to attract American workers and they still refused to do the grunt work immigrants are more than happy to do because they need the money and don’t complain.
They also are forced to enter hot fields recently sprayed with pesticides before the law says they can safely enter. But, the migrant workers are dependable, hard working, can’t afford time off with illness or injuries and deserve more from Americans than derision and ridicule.
Or do you just cry about the immigrants who bear no responsibility for or control over the issue?
Well said and great defense of those who have no voice. Oh, spit. The SPOTUS is gonna git you for immigrant advocating, Debbo. btw Hawks one and stunk up Kinnick doing it.
At least they “one.” 😉 Did the Illini wave to the kids?
Porter was the one that made the jump to racism! The 1% that is taking over food production with undocumented labor as its main tool is the problem that I have been railing about from the beginning of my rant! And I imagine Kevin Nunnes is leading the push for this bill.
Family Farms! Hah…..they love to trot that out when there really are none left! Factory Farms needs to replace that bunk.
Clyde – It’s racist to label Mexicans as illegal. It wasn’t a jump. It was a defense of good people who don’t deserve your denigration. Why do you think you need to do it? What’s in your background that leads you to have a superiority complex? It’s subconsciously deviant and you need help, sir.
Driving SD, NE, IA, Ill, IN, OH, NC and VA recently I was struck by late night/early morning harvesting of fields after this wet season of climate change. Many crews likely migrants pitched in to save US farmers.
“…harvesters … rely on foreign workers with temporary H-2A visas, which are designed specifically for agricultural work. Most of these workers originate from other wheat producing countries…. By the nature of their visas, these workers tend to be more reliable because they must stay for the entire season if they want to remain in the country. Especially for larger harvesting outfits, H-2A workers have become the norm as the prospect of having to rehire throughout the season is impractical and inefficient.
Long-term, this shift has started to have an impact. The fact that foreign workers eventually return home has undermined the unity that once bonded] the Great Plains. “There’s a social impact,” says North Dakota State’s Isern. ….with every local restaurant or equipment dealership that closes, with every teenager who won’t have the memory of the summer harvest, and with every harvester no longer able to make a living, the loss of community accelerates, taking with it the hopes for the future.” 2019 http://inthesetimes.com/rural-america/entry/21765/custom-harvest-rural-america-farming-wheat-farmers-wheaties-Great-Plains
CLyde-https://soapboxie.com/us-politics/21reasonsReaganwasaterriblepresident
Leslie … In 1969 I was about a half day away from hooking up with a combine crew, out of Oklahoma when they passed through Waverly and harvested the fields on the farm where I was a hired hand, that summer. I had my stuff packed and was ready to join a couple buddies from Watertown to harvest up into Canada for about three months. Something came up and I didn’t go but my friends did. So, custom combining has been going on for a long time. Paid real well, as I recall. 🤓
Good comment and link Leslie.
If small towns want to save themselves they’ll have to welcome immigrants. Small Minnesota towns are succeeding and growing that way. They haven’t lost their heritage and the things that make them special. They’ve added even more.
Goat: Clyde’s got yours
… sad shallow mind
I’m being facetious when i call R R the “greatest” conservative president. Under RR easily half the farmers went out of business and its been scratch and claw ever since. RR was the beginning of the end and no one has stepped up to save us since.
Small towns aren’t going to save themselves with the “new” ag worker, Debbo. That is the idea with the modern CAFO making a profit for someone in the Hampton’s or, in the case of Smithfield, China.
The idea is the least number of workers at the lowest possible cost. Not a formula for a thriving community.
Porter, I remember those wheat harvest days well. Farm kids seldom went on the wheat crews because their folks had plenty for them to do at home. Small town kids with some skill and perhaps some farm labor behind them like you are the ones that did the wheat run. Leslie’s bit make’s it sound as if that isn’t an option for rural town kids anymore either!
Again…..there is nothing humanitarian about letting some CAFO hire undocumented foreign labor! Kevin Nunnes and the like will stick it to these foreign “illegals” at the first opportunity that benefits them.
“Small towns aren’t going to save themselves with the “new” ag worker, Debbo.”
They are doing so at this very moment, in spite of your opinion.
Debbo< I invite you to visit Luverne Mn. or Storm Lake Ia. and ask an older resident how their town's are doing. I doubt that they will think their town's are being saved.
Storm Lake is a packing house town and the big business of meat packing works the same as the CAFO's. Least number of laborers at the lowest cost. It's my understanding that if the packers hire refugee's from certain country's, the government gives them a subsidy for doing so. So besides paying these people next to nothing the big packers get some of our tax money.
I knew guys that put themselves through college by working in the packing plants in the summer. College degree without debt! Imagine that. Also knew a fellow whose girl friend and subsequent wife came up expecting and he had to set up housekeeping in a hurry. He got a job in the packing plant. Now days the starting pay at the packing plants is about the same as it was in the 1970's without a correction for inflation.
Yes, Porter, lay on the racist label but I'm going to re-title it "Racism AND Big Business"
It's all about the Benjamin's, baby! That is the Benjamin's for the 1% and there is nothing humanitarian about it.
This bill need’s to be killed but none of the South Dakota republican representation is going to vote against it and none of the favorite democrats of those on this forum are going to vote against it either.
So, once again, rural life in South Dakota declines, the food choices for America get fewer and more farmers go out of business.
Kevin Nunnes, his family and their ilk will get richer though.
Read somewhere that the wealth of those on the Forbes 400 has gone up 80 times since this country elected Ronny Reagan. EIGHTY TIMES!!!! Have anyone on this forum seen their wealth increase 80 times?
Tyson pork in Storm Lake, iowa……https://www.nytimes.com › economy › storm-lake-iowa-immigrant-workers
May 29, 2017 – Tyson Foods bought IBP in 2001, and its red oval logo greets visitors as they drive into town. Tacked onto the entry gate, a large banner announces, “New starting pay” — $15 an hour on the production line. Even at that level, more than twice the state’s $7.25 minimum wage, workers can be hard to come by.
They won’t hire many wasicu Americans.
Did everyone hear that the SD Farm Bureau members meeting in Sioux Falls I think it was, voted down a resolution sent in by an unnamed county to approve the growing of industrial hemp in SD? (KELO)
I think there was some discussion recently about Farm Bureau vs. Farmers Union political leanings.
grudznick heard it, Ms. Friday.
“Schomacker said Luverne has plenty of growth planned for the short-term future, even without the shrimp manufacturer. There are $31 million in improvements slated for the Luverne Middle School-High School, plus expansion plans to Gevo Inc.’s isobutanol plant. The Minnesota Army National Guard is planning to build a $15.2 million Readiness Center at the industrial park, next to the site once favored by Tru Shrimp.”
SF AL (2019)
“Just six months after Gold’n Plump Poultry closed its doors, Premium Iowa Pork (PIP) is planning to transform the unoccupied Luverne facility into a pork processing plant.
“The Hospers, Iowa pork producer intends to hire up to 325 full-time employees and process up to 2,200 antibiotic-free hogs per day once it completes renovations to the plant.”
Ag Week (2018)
___________________________
Doesn’t sound like Luverne is doing too badly, Clyde.
Clyde is obsessed with creating victimhood for himself and his farm, no matter who he has to blame or what stories he has to make up.
OK, critic’s, I can’t find exactly what packing house starting wages were in the 70’s but to be payed as good as packing house workers were in 1980 the wages would have had to have gone up three times. The starting wage in 1980 was much better than $5 an hour. I’m comparing to Mikes current $15. 1970 would have to be 6 times better than it was then. The packing plant pay was much better than $2.50. So, adjusting for inflation it looks like I’m pretty much on the money! I may have lost track of recent increases in salary but the pay for that job today has not begun to keep up. I was getting $5 working construction in 1973 and the packing plants paid better than that.
Anybody find anything on the program to subsidize the packers for hiring refugee’s????
I’d like to know how many college kids can pay for school by working summers in that industry today as a friend of mine did.
I don’t consider $15 a good salary for packing plant labor and I invite you to take a packing plant job for that or put your kids to work there for that.
Visit those town’s! Next time you are anywhere near them drive down their main street…talk to the local’s!
I just want to get one thing straight. You folks all support Kevin Nunnes running his dairies with undocumented labor then….right??
Another of my son’s friends with a small dairy and a few acres just threw in the towel and decided to get a job doing something else…I haven’t heard what yet.
BTW, Robin, Farm Bureau is a big insurance company that really is only interested in what benefits them and not the farmer while the Farmers Union does actually try to work for farmers.
Clyde, did you read my comment?
People in Luverne seem to be happy with their growth, increasing tax base and accompanying civic improvements. I’ve no doubt you can find people in Luverne who will complain. I don’t know of any town where everyone is happy. “The locals” were the ones quoted in the article.
If starting pay is $15 for untrained labor how much do you think a third year employee earns. I’d say $22 – $25.
“Farm Bureau is a big insurance company that really is only interested in what benefits them. . .” That’s kinda what I was saying, Clyde. Just because some entity has the word “Farm” in its title does not mean they speak for actual farmers.
A little more…..instead of just piling on me I’d like each of you to convince me as to why you think Kevin Nunnes, Smithfield foods and their ilk should be able to use undocumented labor in their business’s. If they can why not every industry? if every industry then why do we have an ICE? Let’s lay them off and let everyone come in.
Please!! Convince me. Big CAFO’s should be able to get away with hiring anyone! Debbo, Porter, and Mike. Convince me as to why this bill should go through!
So if Mikey Rounds and maybe Johnny Thune read this blog maybe they can work to just add every industry and every country to those that will get amnesty for coming in to work in our industry’s. It sure isn’t fair to the other industry’s or this country to not extend it. Lets stop fooling around with the edges of the problem and open all our borders!
We need cheap food that illegal’s can help out with but we need a lot of other things cheapened up as well. Cheaper housing, hell, cheaper everything!
What benefit is it to convince you of anything? First, explain why you need to denigrate people you don’t know by labeling them “illegals”? A person can’t be illegal. It’s impossible. A person can do an illegal act but a human being can’t be illegal. What does it make you feel like to imagine that you’re better than they are, when clearly you’re not?
Never mind. I’ve told you this more than three times and your self esteem needs something a normal person’s doesn’t.
Debbo, I began to read your comment but lets get real. I can go to people on the city council of my small town and they will give glowing reports of all the great things that are happening in town.
Meanwhile, I can drive down the main street past the empty stores and through the residential district past the houses needing repairs and paint occupied by gray haired folks, like me, and know better.
Porter, you answered your own question. According to our laws those folks came into this country “illegally”.
So you didn’t read my comment because you “know better.” That’s a very effective way to keep out any contrary information.
Debbo, I’ve been in Luverne recently and I DON’T like the town. You can go there and see if you get a different opinion. You are just trying to keep up an argument.Please reply to my question. Why should big CAFO’s get amnesty for hiring undocumented labor? You, too, Porter.
Getting ready for a winter storm tomorrow. I could use the help of some “ILLEGAL’S”, Porter, but I can’t speak the language.
Claiming that it is appropropriate to call a group of people “illegals” because they broke the law is an obvious lie designed to cloud overt racism. The claim is obviously false since the term is not used to label or dehumanize alleged lawbreakers at all. Rather it is used to dehumanize only certain alleged lawbreakers, namely people from south of the border alleged to have committed the victimless misdemeanor of crossing our border without papers, or those people who have not even committed a single crime but have neglected to renew a visa.
Indeed, it is not even a crime nor administrative violation for someone without “papers” to work in the U.S. It is a crime for an employer to hire that person, but we don’t hear these employers called “illegals,” only the immigrant workers.
Likewise, the term “illegals” is not used to label people convicted of assaults, robberies, burglaries, homicides, sexual abuse and other serious crimes with actual victims. No, it is used only to denigrate and dehumanize immigrants who have had the audacity to come to the USA seeking freedom, safety and economic security and are willing to take jobs rejected by most “papered” residents.
I read an essy in the local paper by a retiring clergyman recently. One of his topics was “honor” and how the value of one’s life is related to “honor.” Maybe Clyde can tell us how hurting immigrants with this dehumanizing language constitutes an “honorable” act?
He’s just a lonely, old, man who will say anything to get attention. Just like the simple minded grudznick. That’s understandable. Good luck, Clyde. It’s too late for you to improve or to make a difference.
According to our laws those folks came into this country “illegally”. Not true, Clyde, especially for those seeking asylum. At least until the reign of terror on migrants from drumpf.
Can someone grow a spine and explain why this bill should pass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cory? is it just because it’s bipartisan???? Is that why everyone should jump on it quick???
WHY SHOULD KEVIN NUNNES BE ABLE TO HIRE PEOPLE THAT THE REST OF THE COUNTRY CAN NOT!!!!!
This is totally asinine.
This bill is obviously being put up by the CAFO special interests by people in the pocket of those special interest’s. There is nothing humanitarian about it.
Dusty Johnson will not show a spine either and will support it because his party says to.
Where are the responses to my question?????? That is rather than the idiot “racist” respondents.
Looks like maybe a letter writing campaign to local papers to advise voter’s to get rid of both of these party’s might be in order. How many South Dakotans are really going to be in favor of this????
I’ll take a stab at answering Clyde’s questions:
First off, let me say I haven’t read the actual bill referenced by Cory and Clyde so I am basing my answer on Cory’s post. If I have misunderstood any portion of the bill, perhaps Clyde, Cory or another reader can provide more accurate information about it.
Let me answer Clyde’s inquiries in reverse order:
(1) I saw nothing about the bill that gives Nunes any special treatment in hiring workers over anyone else, thus the third question seems to be based on a mistake of fact by Clyde.
Indeed, I saw nothing in Cory’s comment about the bill granting amnesty or any particular special treatment to individual employers like Nunes that may be currently violating the law in their employment practices. As I pointed out, an immigrant without “papers” does not commit an offense by working in the USA. Employers are the lawbreakers in such relationships. This legislation expands the supply of potential employees and provides an incentive for such employers to return to lawful hiring practices.
(2) The fact that it is bipartisan alone does not seem to be a sufficient reason to pass the bill, although that is evidence that the bill is more likely than not in the public interest.
(3) The bill should pass precisely because it helps decent people seeking freedom and safety and who want to come to our country and contribute to our economy by working. It gives these folks an opportunity to get right with our immigration laws. There are additional positive collateral benefits from the legislation but these two reasons alone seem more than sufficient to explain why the bill should pass.
I hope that helps answer your questions Clyde. And I also want to note that my prior comments have referenced several actual facts that have supported the conclusion that your use of dehumanizing labels constitutes racist behavior. For example:
– your dehumanizing term is not used to denigrate more serious lawbreakers, including employers that break the law;
– it is not illegal for unpapered immigrants to work in the USA;
– immigrants without papers are people just like you who only seek freedom, safety and an economic opportunity to earn enough to support their children and family;
– labeling anyone with derogatory dehumanizing terms is harmful to the men, women and children that are so labeled;
– engaging in this type of hurtful conduct is not honorable because it does nothing to benefit society nor the person using the dehumanizing labels;
– (and as mfi points out, people seeking asylum break no laws by crossing the border without “papers.”)
In your protestations, however, you have not argued that any of these facts are incorrect. Why not directly address these points rather than merely declaring your own victimhood because others have called out this racist behavior?
My impression is that Ol’ Clyde wants to start a little white supremacy group to denigrate Mexicans and Central American refugees. Let us know how that goes, Clyde.
*Just FYI, you’ll get more to join if you give your full name and town so bigots can stay anonymous.
I expected such an answer from BCB and Porter and if you take that stand you would agree then that EVERY employer in this country should also get the benefit of cheap undocumented laborers from where ever. That our borders should be open to anyone from anywhere. I would say especially from those folks in the mid east that our war’s have displaced. I’m not singling our just folks from immediately south of our border. You two are.
Like I say…you can pick away at the edges but I don’t think the majority of folks in this country are going to side with you and if they will then lets just get rid of ICE and open this country to anyone. Especially the refugees that have been flooding Europe due to our war’s.
I would love to hire some of these folks but my lack of Spanish language skill’s or Arabic will hamper that.
I had my roof redone a few years ago by a crew from south of our border. The contractor confided in me that if the one guy in that crew who could speak both languages knew what he was really worth he could demand many times the salary that he was getting.
There in lies a major problem and a reason why Kevin Nunnes dairy has an advantage. They would require a crew and only need one fellow to do the communicating. Hense they would have a major advantage over Joe Blow the little farmer.
Anyway, whats your opinion on just opening the borders. These folks are hard working and competent. I’ll bet they could even do your job or the job of your kids with a little language training.
What say ye?????
I say that every undocumented cook or dishwasher that ever worked with me knew exactly how much they were worth. That guy was just exploring your disdain, Clyde.
*If they were fluent in more than one language (Italian- Spanish- Lebanese- Moroccan- Vietnamese were languages I worked with) they were worth more per hour than me.
Sure. Open the borders and direct them to Clyde’s county. He could use some cultural adjustments. Guaranteed he’d lose his bigotry within a few years. If you just ask, I’ve not met an undocumented worker that wouldn’t teach you their language, free.
I noticed that Clyde DEMANDS answers to his questions, but ignores questions directed to him.
In addition, I see that Clyde makes the logically fallacious jump from this particular immigration program to opening all US borders to all immigrants.
C’mon Clyde. Take part in a conversation, rather than simply ranting and demanding. You can begin by responding to BCB’s questions.
Little difficult to get any work done till I learned that language, Porter.
Well, I’m betting the majority of readers of this blog will side with me that this bill needs to get killed but really don’t care to get into this ridiculous fray. This is another hand out to big business and has nothing to do with helping out poor folks seeking asylum. Definitely will not help the “Family Farm”. Just more money for the 1%.
I hope they will e-mail Dusty and express their displeasure with it and hope that he won’t just cave to the wish’s of his party. I am going to do just that. May start writing letters to the paper’s as well.
Good point, Porter.
Clyde, someone who’s bi-lingual or multi-lingual is worth more. Being multi-lingual is an indication of general intelligence and adaptability. It’s not easy to learn a non-native language as an adult, not a throw-away skill, not a throw-away person. I know because I tried to learn Spanish, just because I wanted to, and because I thought there might be some translation jobs out there.
For one thing that multi-lingual person is an asset to her/his employer. That person should be paid what he or she is worth. And so should the others. That certainly should provide a stimulus for some workers (not all) to learn the language of the milieu in which they are working.
And his name is DEVIN Nunes, not Kevin.
Being multi-lingual was highly rewarded when I worked in a dining room at the Grand Canyon in ‘72. I also worked with French chefs, but they always had legitimate green cards. Some green cards were a lighter shade of green. 😊
And Clyde, not to be snarky, but if you’re going to advise a letter-writing campaign to the newspapers, please be advised that apostrophes do not belong in simple plurals. Yes, I know it’s picky and annoying, but every time some of us see an apostrophe in a simple plural, the credibility of the writer goes down a notch. Just so you know.
Thanks, Robin….I didn’t study the art enough in my one room grade school and have forgotten much. Will have to have my wife proof read.
Of course it is Devin…knew that….my screw up.
Clyde is right that I mentioned “south of the border” instead of him declaring that he intended to denigrate and dehumanize people from “south of the border” with dehumanizing derogatory name calling. Maybe I’m more racist as I have come to believe that the term is used pretty much exclusively to hurt people from south of the border. If Clyde intends to harm people that come from other origins, then his point is worth considering – maybe his actions are not intended as exclusively racist.
If that is Clyde’s intent then maybe the term “racist” is inappropropriate to describe his particular use of this harmful language since he apparently targets a broader discrete group of people inclusive of more than one race or ethnicity. I suspect people generally that use this name-calling are acting in a racist manner targeting only people from south of the border who are of a particular ethnicity, but I imagine there are exceptions other than Clyde. Trump’s guy Steve Miller comes to mind.
Trouble is, that doesn’t seem to improve the harm caused by labeling members of the designated group with derogatory dehumanizing terms. And an excuse or justification for inflicting harm this distinction remains as meaningless as the excuse for name-calling and labeling is because of a lack of full compliance with a particular victimless laws or administrative rule, while not using the dehumanizing label on actual criminals who have committed violent or property crimes.
Either way, my questions remain unanswered.
As for “opening the border” I would support substantial changes in the law so that absent a specific reason to exclude someone, such as people who have committed serious crimes, our law should permit relatively free access to crossing the border at checkpoints. Checkpoints should be designed to both screen immigrants and assist those immigrants seeking to become permanent residents or citizens of the US. And if deportations were limited to individuals who are found guilty of committing serious crimes, then I would support making it a crime to re-enter after being deported.
Indeed, think about our borders between States. We seem to get along pretty well without checkpoints. Our law enforcement seems able to handle most miscreants crossing the Minnesota/SD border, the Iowa/SD border, the Wyoming/SD border, et al.
Building walls and adopting arbitrary and exclusionary rules making it difficult for refugees, asylum seekers, and others to cross our southern border seems a cruel and counterproductive public policy.
Stop deporting good people who have lived in our midst for years or decades and fulfilled all the demands of good citizenry (including many times, military service) without the damnable papers is a necessary first step. In other words, rein in ICE. If they’re bad dudes, ok, but quit picking up daddies at school and moms at their jobs and busting up people’s perfectly good families, STEP # ONE.
Exactly what Robin said.
They deport military vets who have served honorably for a despicable slimeball who doesn’t give a whoop in hell about their service, just the color of their skin.
OK, Robin….I don’t disagree with that. Good hard working folks with family’s should have a way to stay but folks like “Devin” Nunes should be behind bars for knowingly employing undocumented workers. This country needs to get the priority’s right.
Guess there is nothing new with what we have now…. The big can get away with murder while the little get tossed in jail. The rich get subsidized while the poor get blamed.
Exactly right Clyde.
“Good hard working folks with family’s should have a way to stay but folks like “Devin” Nunes should be behind bars for knowingly employing undocumented workers.”
My Grandma was a sweet Norwegian lady born and raised in North of Belle Fourche before she had my mom in Belle Fourche.
If I read this to her, I’m pretty sure she would call this post chicken isht. It was one of her favorite things to say.
I wouldn’t say it’s chicken isht, though. I think about all of the other things Congress could be doing as opposed to pursuing a one world fiat government where we all wear one piece track suits and play grab ass in orbit.
My mind wanders. I’m not Christian, but I’m on their side when it comes to human freedom and agency, from which nationalism springs logically. That being said, I can’t help but contemplate the degree of finality of the next great inquisition.
I teach my kids to respect and revere the core principles of Christianity, and to pay close attention to the reformations to come.
Peace and love.
The best of luck to you in your quest for a socialist utopia.
Just remember .. robots do not interface with this universe at a quantum level, and therefore are doomed.
#humanityfirst
This topic shouldn’t be allowed to die so easily……
Here’s some more on our CAFO produced food that respondents to my post seem to be in favor of:
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a29851866/brexit-vote-american-food-imports-british-protest/
While you are at it you should re-read again of the Nunes family hypocrisy: https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a23471864/devin-nunes-family-farm-iowa-california/
Clyde – I believe this is a problem that foments itself. Amnesty makes the problem worse.
Well, John Dale, that is one thing I will agree with you on.
These people come here knowing that they have to work hard for low wages and not complain. They are in many ways worse off than slaves. The owner of a slave had to keep his slave well since he was an investment. These people don’t have that luxury! BUT, every few years they can expect to be given amnesty. At least that is how the system has been working.
In many cases they have come here BECAUSE of OUR policy’s towards their country.
In recent history we have staged a coup to overthrow Bolivia’s democratically elected socialist government [Largest supply of Lithium in the world] also Venezuela[Largest oil reserves]. We have also meddled in Chile[ copper], Ecuador , [Assange] and probably many others that I don’t recall right now. From a while back we shouldn’t be proud of Nicaragua and a writer I read two years after NAFTA was enacted noted that the number of undocumented people that had crossed the Rio Grande was almost exactly the number of small Mexican farmers that were put out of business by it.
I am right that the fact that modern mega farming is running almost exclusively on these undocumented workers is putting true “family farms” out of business. It is continuing to push farm youth to the cities for better paying jobs that are not competing with desperate undocumented labor. It is accelerating the destruction of the rural America that has been the backbone of this country.
This bill needs to be killed! H.R.5083
Employers need to be penalized and laws that give workers a fighting chance via unionization need to be implemented. Killing this law won’t stop desperate people from looking for a way to feed their families.
Clyde – “In many cases they have come here BECAUSE of OUR policy’s towards their country”
Very well stated.
And when one follows that causal chain, they find that State and CIA are right in the thick of it.
The Arab Spring vaulted tons of “refugees” to Europe creating the exact same type of problem there. It’s called Cloward-Piven (wikipedia has scheduled this article for deletion):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward–Piven_strategy
S386 is also a big problem for the American economy (h1b expansion, the Indians are pressuring Mike Lee and harassing him wherever he goes). This “skilled” labor is not skilled .. if they were, why do Americans need to train them before getting the Axe (I know from experience after working on a 20 million dollar education software project that was taken over by a firm from London)?
Debbo, “it won’t stop desperate people from looking for a way to feed their family’s”.
Immediately, I don’t know what to do about that but rural America shouldn’t be penalized because of it and mega agriculture shouldn’t be rewarded. I’m generous in calling what we now have “agriculture”. Smithfield or Nustar don’t deserve the title. They are more of this country handing all the wealth to the 1%.
What should be done is a national data base that employers must search against any “green” card that is presented. I would think that is being done now but apparently not. Employers that are caught with people that are illegally documented should be prosecuted severely.
Long term this country should stop our efforts to have dominion over any country with wealth that we want. The most efficient farming is subsistence farming. It is the type of farming that exist’s where ever governments don’t subsidize their food production. We need to recognize that. We need to stop meddling with country’s that wish to farm that way and reach agreements with those that are competing with us.
For now this bill needs to be stopped and a sensible discussion on a national basis needs to be undertaken. A huge number of Trump vote’s would have been people that are fed up with this immigration problem and it will be a political foot ball in the future. Maybe even get a lot of votes for the third party that this country need’s.
Comments that indicate “they come here” to be a problem to be resolved are unfortunate, especially considering the dire circumstances that “they” are often trying to escape. Indeed, helping people in dire circumstances used to be considered a positive moral imperative.
Thus, if amnesty policies encourage “those people” to come here to make a better life for themselves and their children, It would seem that such policies are a good thing.
BCB, those are good points but you need to address the disruption caused by them coming here. Also, who is really benefiting and who is not. My argument is that mega ag is the main beneficiary.
John Dales link alludes to the argument that there are a “Liberal” and “Conservative” stance in this. IMO, both party’s are in lock step with the 1% and the only group in this country that get subsidized is the 1%. Liberal and conservative needs to go away and only exits now to distract from the problem.
Carry this all to fruition and as Mark Blythe says…..the Hamptons are not a defensible piece of property!
If the 1% doesn’t want to have to defend them then something has to be done now and IMO this bill needs to be killed as a start.
“Employers that are caught with people that are illegally documented should be prosecuted severely.
“Long term this country should stop our efforts to have dominion over any country with wealth that we want.”
Yes Clyde, these two items are critical and at the root of the problem. Your suggestion of an easily searchable national green card database is good too.
In accepting the positive value of helping people needing to escape desperate circumstances, but then asserting a supposed “disruption caused by them coming here” seems a bit dis-connected.
This approach is reminiscent of one officer’s reported rationalization for killing civilians during the Battle of Bến Tre:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Arnett
This rationalization objecting to a law that helps migrants comply with US law when seeking this Country’s help in escaping dangerous and deplorable circumstances seems suspect when such opposition claims to worry about a bill helping migrants simply because it would also benefit large agricultural groups is clearly similar thinking – to paraphase:
Perhaps there might be a better way to express animosity toward particular employers than to oppose efforts to help potential employees.
drumpf isn’t letting asylum seekers seek asylum any more.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/11/us/politics/supreme-court-trump-asylum.html
not sure if there is a paywall.
Clyde, I’m with you on wanting to get rid of CAFOs. So how about this plan: let’s amend the bill:
Dissolve any ag corporation found to have employed any undocumented workers over the last ten years.
Redistribute the assets of those corporations, especially their land holdings, to any of their interested past employees, including undocumented workers.
We still extend the same amnesty offered in the bill above, with special conditions for those who stay in the U.S. to work on small farms. We grant no amnesty to individuals working at CAFOs.
If we don’t get enough takers from among past workers, we offer the remaining land holdings to interested homesteaders willing to engage in small-scale, locally focused sustainable agriculture.
We continue to audit and investigate every CAFO until we catch and dissolve every one with undocumented workers… and for thbe next five years, we prosecute only the owners, not the workers.
Deal?
So, Amnesty and property?
How does that reduce the incentive for future illegal immigrants?
You started pretty good .. :)
I disagree with the reward of land. That ought to first be offered to families who farmed that land as real families.
(I just finished the excellent Time magazine article about family farms, so that is on my mind.)
Debbo raises an interesting argument that the prior owners of the land ought to have dibs on property seized from lawbreaking CAFO operators.
So… back to the Lakota? ;-)
My proposed reform to accommodate Clyde’s concern is probably too big of a reach for this law. We should just stick with amnesty for honest farm workers and handle the proper redistribution of wealth through another vehicle… like the Market Facilitation Program. Instead of distracting farmers from Trump’s destruction of America’s access to foreign markets, we could really facilitate markets by clawing back those Trumpfare checks and instead giving them as tax credits for small sustainable farming practices.
Here’s a plan…..National data base for all green card holders and a requirement that anyone hiring them record their employment on that data base. That way we could keep track of “legal” green card holders and force employers to keep better track of them as well. I think that the only way a “undocumented” worker could get around that requirement would be to claim they were citizens. In which case they would need a drivers licence or a licence bureau issued ID card. The licence bureau’s are pretty thorough now day’s. I can’t see a way to scam such a system but I imagine there is always a way.
Mandatory prison time for any employer caught with undocumented laborers.
Then a special “minimum” wage for “guest” workers with green cards. Say $16 an hour. Most of you folks would agree they are worth that.
I think such legislation would cure the whole problem.
To add….The reason I have been beating a dead horse about all of this is that the reason these folks are here is because big business want’s “CHEAP” labor. Its not because of anything to do with being a humanitarian.
What’s up, Clyde. Why don’t you call these people illegals anymore?
Good plan Clyde.
It’s true that big business wants them here for cheap labor.
It’s also true that some are here because their home nation has become lawless and too dangerous.
That is a humanitarian reason and it is just as real to many Americans as greed is to big business.
So both reasons are true. I think your plan would make a big reduction in the number of *undocumented workers.
*I noticed your change in naming them. Kudos to you!
What about those workers that follow the harvests all across the Americas? They are called guest workers here and are only here for the harvesting of crops and then they move to the next country? They do not stay here.
CAFOS, otoh, need year round workers.
I trust MFI to be technically correct with the terminology of “undocumented”. IMO, the whole issue is just a matter of semantics.
If the issue of the “undocumented” is truly as a refugee then they ought to get a green card.
MFI, I didn’t know that the temporary workers are any different than those that are here longer. Assumed that they would both require the same papers. Either way they ought to be kept track of but, hey, lets make sure that the only reason they are here isn’t just because they will work cheap.
Mike, who is from Iowa, cannot be trusted because he is from Iowa. His mentionings and bloggings are, by definition, illegitimate. Like they say in Des Moineees, “sucer”
See what Bernie has to say on the subject of immigration….if you don’t want to watch all of this it begins at about 12 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSnxuzDm7C0
He appears to think that determining if these folks are truly asylum seekers should be determined.
BTW this bill is HR 5038 not HR 5083 and break neck speed as it moves along is the only way to describe it.
Be nice to know how “Dusty” voted on this thing if that is possible. Also like to know how Stevie King and the his three democratic house companions voted.
Looks like my only hope on this thing might be my fearless leader Donald Trump!
The Democratic House is working to improve our economy.
Meanwhile America’s Canker Sore and the Russian GOP continue to flounder and accomplish nothing constructive.
Paul Krugman writes about the failed economic policies of No Impulse Control.
“It may actually be good political strategy to do stupid things for a while, then stop doing them around a year before the election, which is a fair summary of Trump’s trade actions.”
That’s got to be the depths of faint praise for a collection of inept bunglers.
But ….. “The business uncertainty created by Trump’s capriciousness won’t go away; he is, after all, a master of the art of the broken deal.
“Our rivals have learned not to fear us. Like the North Koreans, who flattered Trump but kept on building nukes, the Chinese have taken Trump’s measure. They now know that he talks loudly but carries a small stick, and backs down when confronted in ways that might hurt him politically.
“These things matter. Having a leader who is neither trusted by our erstwhile friends nor feared by our foreign rivals reduces our global influence in ways we’re just starting to see. Trump’s trade war didn’t achieve any of its goals, but it did succeed in making America weak again.”
is.gd/rjWuJB