The Handmaid’s Tale advances in Georgia, as its legislature has passed a measure criminalizing most abortions after about six weeks, when doctors can detect something debatably called a “heartbeat.” The bill could put doctors performing and women obtaining abortions in prison for up to ten years.
Georgia Democratic State Senator Jennifer Jordan, who has been pregnant ten times but given birth only twice, explains why that bill promises second-class citizenship, if not hell, for women:
…it’s clear that the intent of this law is to criminalize women, which goes much further than any law in the country. I mean, the whole idea that as soon as a woman is able to detect that she’s pregnant – which is at about 5.5 weeks in terms of a pregnancy test – that, at that point in time, her body doesn’t belong to her anymore and belongs to the state of Georgia; I mean, that is clearly exactly what they intended here. I mean, they even put an affirmative defense from prosecution in for women.
When you see that, there can be no doubt that this was directed toward, you know, subjecting women to prosecution if and when they did anything that may result in a loss of pregnancy.
…it is intended to be outrageous. It’s intended to be stopped in the courts and then to go up to the Supreme Court because that’s exactly what they want to do; they want to overturn Roe. But the problem is, is that the implications go far beyond abortion. This affects every decision that women make in their lives and basically relegates us, in Georgia, at least the women, to second – basically, kind of not fully-adult humans responsible for our own choices – second-class citizens [Sen. Jennifer Jordan, interviewed by Steve Inskeep, “Georgia State Senator Speaks Out Against Abortion Bill,” NPR: Morning Edition, 2019.04.01].
Movie stars are proposing a boycott to pressure new Georgia Governor Brian Kemp (you know, the guy who beat Stacey Abrams last November, so hey, Dems, instead of getting all het up over which of the too-darn-many Democrats running for President we’re all going to unite behind anyway to save the planet from Trump, how about focusing on state-level politics to take back your governors’ mansions and Legislatures to stop radical legislation like this in your backyard?) to go against expectations and veto this awful bill.
Maybe a more radical boycott is in order. Maybe if conservative fetus-worshippers in certain states are determined to enact The Handmaid’s Tale and treat women like property, we have a moral obligation to advise women in those states to emigrate, for their own safety and liberty. Maybe in states determined to chattelize and infantilize every child-bearing woman, to subject every woman’s sexual and medical history to public scrutiny and to punish those women who cannot prove their purity, we must turn to young women and say, “In case you haven’t noticed, it’s really this bad. You aren’t safe here. Go to a place that respects you. Go to a place where the state views you as something more than its breeding vessel.” Maybe it’s time for Lysistrata 2.0, in which women not only withhold sex until their male counterparts cease their political folly but remove their sex entirely from the lands of oppression and choose their partners from among “the enemy,” the men in more progressive states who treat women as equals with full autonomy over their own bodies.
A generation of such a boycott probably wouldn’t change policies in those Handmaid states; the same ignorers of science, morality, and economic impact who pass such absurd laws would ignore the evidence of their states’ decline and trust that their staunch oppression of women would get them into heaven. But decline they would, in population and vitality, as their best and brightest young women would go elsewhere… and as sensible young men would follow.
I hate to encourage women to leave any place they love. But when a place won’t love women back, when a state won’t respect women’s basic human rights, it’s hard to discourage women from leaving.
Of course it will erode their equality. There are a great many women who can’t afford to move, don’t have the money or the means. They are caught. Any woman who can independently leave the state can afford to go to another state to have an abortion. Deaths of women from illegal abortion will escalate.
And now they’re doing the same In Alabama per PBS. Is SD next? Wouldn’t be surprised.
What about establishing a penalty for the man who is also responsible?
I wish these laws really were about preventing abortions, but they’re not. As Sen. Jordan, Cory, Robin and just about anyone with a functional brain knows, it is about controlling women and pandering to a rabid base fueled by pseudo “Christian pastors” who lust for power, sexual conquest and wealth.
It’s hard to quantify how angry and frightened it makes me to know that there are (semi) humans in the USA who harbor a powerful desire to subjugate women and POC. That’s so incredibly twisted and sick.
Exactly John. If it was really about abortion, that’s what they’d do, but the people who write, vote for and support these types of laws would never dream of limiting a male’s sexual behavior. In their world males are supposed to behave like cheap, 2 bit, sluts to be Real Men.
Debatably called a heartbeat? Elaborate. I would like to see a State Debate worthy argument.
GOP just loves piling on women. They block the ERA, the VAWA and Equal Pay, to name just a few.
Time Magazine uses Bureau of Labor statistics to show how the unequal pay for exactly identical work stacks up.
“While the equal pay movement will presumably always rally around a single number, it is the accumulation of disparate pay that really drives home the reality of lost wages for women. According to TIME’s calculations, using the same BLS figures as above, a typical woman who works from age 16 to 70 will make $590,000 less than a man working an identical span.”
http://time.com/5562269/equal-pay-day-women-men-lifetime-wages/
$590,000!! Oh yeah. About half of men don’t believe the gender pay gap is real. However, none of them are willing to switch incomes and find out.
See, today is Equal Pay Day. All of last year, plus the first 3 months and 2 days of this year is what it takes for women to be paid the same as men were paid in the 365 days of 2018.
Oh lord this is not about society keeping women barefoot and pregnant Chicago just elected a black, openly gay woman to be their next mayor. Religious fundamentalists simply believe it’s murder. Get a grip Deb they aren’t promoting male promiscuity you’re having a 60s flashback.
No, you open your eyes, read links, look at what states are passing. Just like making the US white, returning women to the position of being unable to vote or sign contracts is part of the GOP leadership’s wet dreams.
Don’t be so damn dense. Women have only been able to vote for 99 years, open our own bank accounts for 40-50, etc. You sound like a pollyanna daydreamer. Pay attention, get in the game or get out of the way.
Why do you think several million women around the world marched on 1/21/2017? Why do you think so many are running for offices and succeeding?
Take off your rose colored glasses and LOOK. They’re coming for POC and women right now. LBTG and the poor are next. Quit being a silly child.
Women are winning because men are voting for them. In case you haven’t noticed Kristi Noem is a woman, a little jumbled up, but she’s having no wet dreams.
Debbo has hit on so many great points, as Debbo always does.
The rabid anti-abortion people can never answer the question about preventing unwanted pregnancies in the first place. Why no efforts/energy on trying to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Why? Sex education, birth control, etc. would help prevent unwanted pregnancies, thus, reducing abortion. But “they” fight that all the way, and enact these sorts of laws. (by the way, abortion is still a constitutionally protected right in this country. They are for the constitution before they are against it)
If this isn’t about controlling women, what is it? It IS about controlling women
To them it’s about preventing murder at least try to understand their perspective. Kristi did an interesting interview before being elected in which she said only a very small minority of people told her she had the wrong body parts to win, and we just have to change their mind. She made history. A woman in South Dakota won the top leadership position. Worth a listen: https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/04/politics/south-dakota-governor-candidate-kristi-noem/index.html
Laws don’t prevent abortion. Abortion, like nuke technology has been let out of the bag and can’t be corralled again.
Working to prevent pregnancy is the one sure way to reduce abortions and all efforts should be directed towards education and funding of birth control.
What I find amazing is wingnuts scream we can’t force them to pay for birth control but they can force women to carry unwanted parasites to full term birth. HC notwithstanding.
“The first recorded evidence of induced abortion is from the Egyptian Ebers Papyrus in 1550 BCE.[4]” we know it ain’t goin away. Some cultures were more comfortable with infanticide and left newborns unattended to the elements, but we’re at this juncture right now with Trump and Kavanaugh because the far left had wet dreams for an unelectable candidate and would not support Hillary, so when you’re looking for the enemy go look in the mirror cause it’s you and your uncompromising natures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_abortion
I agree with happy camper. Some people make this about men controlling women, but dumb women are voting for these crazy abortion laws at equal numbers compared to dumb men. Abortion laws aren’t about making women second-class citizens because the vast majority of women don’t seek abortions.
You can say a thousand times that abortions shouldn’t be restricted until male sexual behavior is restricted, but there is no rational comparison between male sexual behavior and the life or death of a fetus. Whether you think it’s fair or not, men did not design human reproduction. Men can’t get pregnant, and women can. That is a risk unique to women that can’t be blamed on somebody else.
Men are not allowed to kill people. Some folks believe abortions are killing people, so they think we as a society shouldn’t allow that. It’s not a gender war, despite you wanting it to be one. I support safe and available access to abortions for any pregnant women who make that decision, but lots of people apparently think it’s baby murder. You are either deliberately or ignorantly conflating the desire to stop baby murders with the desire to destroy gender equality.
Abortion laws aren’t about making women second-class citizens because the vast majority of women don’t seek abortions.
This makes absolutely no sense, which, I guess, might be your point.
The vast majority of men will never have an abortion, so how can any law they pass to restrict abortions be anything other than attempt to control women?
mike, the point I was making is that abortion laws don’t impact most women because most women don’t seek abortions. So abortion laws aren’t about regulating women, they are about regulating abortions.
Your comment about passing laws makes it sound like you don’t think women have an equal part in passing laws. These laws are stupid, but they are not laws passed “by men” they are laws passed by men and women. Falsely making this a men-versus-women issue is undermining the opinions of most men who actually don’t want to restrict abortions whatsoever because most men, like me, think that if a woman wants to abort her fetus, she darn well should be able to because an unwanted baby is more ethically disgusting to me than the voluntary termination of a pregnancy.
Ryan, only women have abortions. You understand that? Show me a single legislature anywhere in America where the number of women equals or exceeds the number of men. You can’t. Therefore votes to control women are made by vast majorities of men.
Since only women have abortions controlling abortions controls women. Since 1973 women have had a constitutional right to control their reproductive systems and since 1973 vast quantities of male, mostly white, mostly wingnut men have tried to control women.
Arguments about the motives for denying women bodily autonomy seem an irrelevant distraction. Wouldn’t it make more sense to look at what will likely be the results if we disregard the current constitutional restrictions that limit government from involvement in an individual’s choice in procreation decisions?
Questions like the following seem more significant than identifying the motives of proponents or opponents:
Will expansion of the power of the state to intervene in individual procreation decisions impact state power over other formerly individual choices?
Will such an expansion of state power actually reduce the rate of abortions in any meaningful manner or will prohibition simply make illegal and unsafe abortions the only option while doing little or nothing to reduce the number of abortions?
See, e.g.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/abortion-rates-go-down-when-countries-make-it-legal-report-n858476
(“Countries with the most restrictive abortion laws also have the highest rates of abortion, the study by the Guttmacher Institute found. . . “).
If women are reluctant to comply with abortion prohibitions, will additional steps be enacted to more effectively enforce the restrictions (e.g., confining pregnant women until they give birth, or prosecuting women who obtain prohibited abortions for murder)?
And if the constitutional right to be free from government interference from procreation decisions may be disregarded by government officials, then will this mean that other objected to constitutional rights and laws also may be disregarded by lawmakers at will?
These and other questions seem much more relevant than whether we can identify motives, such as stopping murder or controlling women, for the current anti-choice movement. The best motives in the world do not necessarily lead to beneficial, acceptable, or even desirable, results. As T.S. Elliot observed, “Most of the evil in this world is done by people with good intentions.”
mike, you know there are laws regulating performing a circumcision, right? Do you think that those laws are “controlling men”?
In a very real way, all laws, rules, and regulations seek to “control” somebody.
Here’s another example because you likely didn’t read the last several: I’m not an accountant. If I wanted to be an accountant, the laws regulating accountants would apply to me. Do you think the laws regulating accountants currently “control” me? Nope.
All of us appear to want the same thing – abortions for any pregnant person who wants one. We just disagree that regulating abortion equates to men controlling women.
Women get circumcised as well, Ryan.
Abortion is legal and constitutional and one side wants to control it until it is narrowed down and forced to disappear. That is unacceptable.
Mike – you keep missing the point. It is not ONE SIDE that wants to control “it”. Men and women equally support restricting or banning abortion. Most men don’t care. Maybe if I use more caps: JUST AS MANY WOMEN WANT TO RESTRICT OR BAN ABORTION AS MEN. Dance around that fact all you want, but it’s not MEN trying to control WOMEN. You are worsening the divide between the genders by making this men versus women.
I thought with all the recent studies coming out about the “gender wage gap” pretty much being baloney, I had heard the last of it for a while. Study after study is showing that gender is a non-factor in a person’s possible or actual income.
Here’s harvard’s most recent study:
https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/bolotnyy/files/be_gendergap.pdf
If anybody wants the short version, here is the quote for you: “The gap can be explained entirely by the fact that, while having the same choice sets in the workplace, women and men make different choices.”
HC and Ryan, you make the mistake of personalizing my comments to yourselves and other males of your acquaintance. You’re no more important to the enactors of these laws than I am.
My comments refer to the leadership, such as it is, of the GOP. They drool for the 1950s when Jim Crow ruled the land, POC knew their place and women were in the kitchen or James Bond’s bimbos. They’re fairly open about it, if slightly more subtle than they used to be.
In the 1950s most Blacks couldn’t vote, didn’t hold office and you could beat them up with impunity. Women couldn’t open bank accounts, sign contracts, marital rape and spousal abuse were legal and she needed her husband’s permission for many things.
No. The gender wage gap is nearly $600,000 worth of reality. The “choices” include being penalized for bearing children or taking most of the time required to raise them. The Bureau of Labor numbers do not lie.
HC and Ryan, you can sit on your white male pedestals and belittle and patronize me, figuratively pat me on the head and tell me I’m just getting overly emotional about this– precisely because you have a white male pedestal to sit on. Meanwhile, you’re a minority of 2 among males here because the others are refusing to engage in the willful blindness you wallow in. Enjoy yourselves.
debbo, do you think somebody who chooses to be at home with their family should be paid the same as a person who chooses to work more hours? In what possible way does that make any sense?
It’s a choice. If a person wants to earn money, they must work. That’s economy. Your phoney $600k difference is apparently what it costs to avoid manual labor, overtime, and the risk of losing life and limb at work. Men choose to work longer hours at harder jobs than women. Those are just realities. Women don’t have to stay home and raise kids. Some women choose to, sure, but nobody has to. Making the choice to focus on family over career has expected consequences on the receipt of income. I love being a dad. I’m good at it and it is incredibly rewarding. I lose out on a lot of additional income by making sure to have as much family time as I can. I don’t blame patriarchy for that, it’s just part of the real world.
And enough already with the white male pedestal stuff. You have already told us over and over that you are racist and sexist against white males. The reality is, women have much more privilege in this country than men but you will never admit it because it isn’t listed on a W-2. And I know, I know, you have a list of “perks” of being a guy, but guess what – the thermostat at my office is set by women! Wolf crier.
“women have much more privilege in this country than men”
Oh, that’s so precious! But women setting the thermostat in your office totally proves there is no such thing as white male privilege. Perfect.
I suppose women could just “choose” to let babies raise themselves rather than being financially penalized for it. Of course every mother can afford child care. BTW, those “choices” are not the only reasons women are paid less. This is the link I posted earlier. Read it and educate yourself.
http://time.com/5562269/equal-pay-day-women-men-lifetime-wages/
Try addressing BCB’s comment too. Support your thesis.
I don’t think you are aware of how ludicrous your comment is Ryan.
“Biden is the kind of man — and there are so many like him — who believes he is so lovable and well-meaning that everyone, including strangers, will welcome his touch. His self-love blinds him to his own shortcomings.”
It’s from an opinion piece in the Strib about Joe Biden specifically and white male entitlement generally. It’s a valuable read.
https://short1.link/8qSzKK
“[Biden’s] touching is often inappropriate and can be unnerving. He should cut it out and apologize to those who felt uncomfortable. However, this is not #MeToo sexual harassment or assault. In the crazed atmosphere of immediate takes and absolute judgments, it’s difficult for some to make distinctions, but that is what grown-ups are supposed to do. Biden’s habitual embraces can be inappropriate without being sexual harassment; his conduct can be a demerit without being disqualifying. No, you’re not a hypocrite if you think Roy Moore should have been long ago banished from public life and Biden shouldn’t; these two situations are not the same.”
That’s Jennifer Rubin in the same issue of the Strib. I agree with both opinion pieces. What Biden does is unwelcome and inappropriate touching and he should stop. I don’t find it sexual, but if I was the one he held by the neck and rubbed noses with, I’d be freaked out by that. Or if he held my shoulders from behind and sniffed my hair? Ick!! Yeah.
BCB always thinks he should have the authority to frame the argument and everyone else must prove their logic fits or doesn’t fit inside his set of parameters. Get real the anti-abortion crowd is going to look at it their own way and right now they’re winning so you better figure out what motivates them. If Roe is repealed every state may have to put it to a vote so you need to be able to communicate with the broad swath of voters not have a tiny chorus that loves to sing libbie talk to one another.
Sorry Deb but you sound like a paranoid man hater whose backup argument is you just don’t understand our gender. Much of the evidence shows men get paid more for various reasons, more years of experience a main one because women usually end up being the caregiver by choice. Thank goodness Ryan makes some sense listen to him.
WOMEN ARE NOT THE MAJORITY OF POLITICIANS AND THEREFORE CANNOT RESTRICT OR GET RID OF ABORTION! Understand that now?
So HC, you don’t have anything to respond to BCB’S reasonable questions and for me just very old accusations that women always hear whenever we stand up for ourselves.
Didn’t read the links, right?
Later, boys.
bcb was a lawyer and still plays one whether he ever stayed at a Holiday Inn Express or not. But then Drumpf is admittedly smarter than any lawyer or general or accountant. Maybe HC is, as well.
OT McCTurtle invoked nukular option for judiciaL nominees so Drumpf cam fill final 130 federal lifetime judgeships with unqualified ideologues and Dems are powerless to stop them.
I am not sure I fully understand happy’s seemingly completely unrelated to the topic comment about me, but here is a quick response. If happy means I always try to frame an argument in a neutral, objective manner I will take that as a compliment. Unfortunately, however, I am not consistent enough to “always” to do anything.
And when happy suggests a more accurate and effective means of framing an argument than I propose, then I will happily defer to his analysis.
Ryan, abortion laws are about regulating women. Also, there are ignorant men and ignorant women, Kristi Noem is a prime example. Based on my experience thus far in life this is what I’ve come up with. #1. Worked with low income pregnant teens who weren’t educated on contraception. Many were involved in really heart breaking situations in which they had no support. I’ll stop there. If you are going to say I’m “pro-life” then you can’t turn around and criticize these teens for getting food stamps. You can’t limit sex education or access to contraception in schools. And yep, if you say you are “pro-life” that means extending empathy towards kids and adults who are poor, who are African-American, who are LGBT, who are immigrants. You don’t get to dictate who’s life matters.
Rachel, you must not have read my comments closely enough, but I’m as pro choice as they come. I support open and easily accessible access to abortion for anybody seeking one. I support people having any sexual identity and sexual preference under the sun. I’m pro freedom. I’m pro autonomy. I’m pro human. I’m pro personal accountability.
Young kids, poor kids, old people, rich people, white people, all people have struggles and all make mistakes. Lack of education is sad and has all sorts of negative consequences, including risky sexual behavior. Lots of teens also commit crimes and serve decades in prison for their actions.
I grew up poor and on food stamps. Half of the women in my family were poor teen mothers at some point in life. I treat people of all races and genders equally because I absolutely believe in equality. I have had plenty of personal struggles in life and empathize greatly with anybody from any background going through a tough situation. Life is hard. None of that addresses either of my two points:
1) just as many women as men want to regulate or ban abortion; and
2) although their reasons certainly vary, most folks who want to regulate or ban abortion are probably not out to control the entire female population, but to reduce fetal death rates.
Even if you and I agree that these folks are actually doing more harm than good, it doesn’t mean that their intentions are nefarious.
I’m definitely not saying BCB is neutral and objective quite the opposite. In this instance I’m telling you to defer to the power of the voting block, not the power of DFP opinions who will happily give you applause. As Mike says legislatures have the power until it goes to public vote, but you must consider in the mind of a pro-life individual, as Rachel says, you don’t get to dictate whose life matters. The vast majority are not out to “regulate women” but protect the unborn who is inside a woman whose biological purpose, both man and woman, is to reproduce.
The fact that Chicago just elected a gay black woman as mayor doesn’t prove that the current administration and Catholic and Evangelical churches aren’t a thousand years behind. The churches definitely want to control women because they believe it’s their job to regulate and control the population of the earth. Men (some men) believe they should control women’s reproduction because it’s their job. The Bible says so. Ergo, the church fights abortion and the current administration fights birth control because women can’t be trusted en masse to control their own reproduction. How cross purposes can you get.
Then what does a gay, black woman, married to her partner with a child reflect??? Who by the way won the office in a runoff against another black woman. The broader part of society is definitely not living in 1950.
A constitutional right that is inaccessible is a not a right. And the strategy today is to make it inaccessible and therefore empty.
In an earlier comment I said, “My comments refer to the leadership, such as it is, of the GOP. They drool for the 1950s when Jim Crow ruled the land, POC knew their place and women were in the kitchen or James Bond’s bimbos. They’re fairly open about it, if slightly more subtle than they used to be.”
Those are the people, the GOP leadership, who have the power to carry out their desire to control and dominate women and POC. They are my concern and the more citizens who are aware of what that leadership is up to, the better.
Men would be wise to listen to women as the experts in being women. While there are coopted women, as there are in every group, it’s critical to read information you may disagree with. Otherwise you become like the wingnuts who only watch Faux Noise. Challenge yourselves and broaden your knowledge base.
Yes, but that doesn’t mean the strategy of these state legislatures is in keeping with the values of the voters in those states. In fact not, that is why it is so important to frame the pro-choice argument for centrist voters not one that only suits the progressives.
Deb, always the hypocrite. Like you listen to anybody else? Only what you want to hear.
Debbo, sure, we all just need to read that article you read and then we’ll all think like you and hate people we don’t know for things they didn’t do based on their race, gender, or religion.
We don’t disagree with you because we are in the dark about the situation. We disagree with you because you are wrong about almost everything, almost always.
You talk like people who disagree with you have never heard your tired, and tiring, point of view before. How precious, indeed. It’s very cliche. Quite stereotypical. Counterproductive, probably.
Anyway, to Cory’s point of encouraging pregnant women seeking an abortion in Georgia to leave the state, they should do so at least in the early stages of their pregnancies.
No man or woman should have to live with government imposed restrictions on their bodies.
Robin Friday is right in that moving from your home creates many obstacles, but this abortion restriction is as good as reason as ever to remove yourself from the situation and maintain your autonomy and control over your life choices.
Are there organizations, legal or otherwise, that would help women in these situations?
I read your link Ryan, about the wages in the Harvard study, to further educate myself. You should try it. BCB and I both went to the time and trouble to include helpful information.
Taking cheap shots at me doesn’t make you look smarter or a better thinker. You just make yourself look cheap, rather than addressing the content of the link. I’m going to leave you to your own devices except when you’re addressing the issue in a constructive way.
I understand what you’re saying HC. My opinion is that GOP leadership is entirely uninterested in the will of the citizens. I say that because 70% or more of the population wants some gun controls and more accessible healthcare, yet the GOP won’t touch either. I believe there are other examples, but those 2 stand out.
Roger, I wouldn’t be surprised if informal underground groups of women coalesce to help those in need go where they can get the necessary medical care. Prior to effective laws against wife beating, that’s how women escaped. It was their only option.
Local women’s groups would be the place to start looking. They’re the ones who helped protesters get to DC to try to keep the last misogynist off SCOTUS.
I’m starting to see why Robin Marty, who thinks repeal of Roe is a good thing, may be right. If ProChoice amendments go to a vote of the people where necessary, far right politics will be neutered. The issue will largely be settled after the people have voted so all the Republican politicians who must pander publicly against abortion will no longer have to cater to the far-right faction of fundamentalists who will lose a whole lot of political power within the Republican Party and they will move forward unencumbered by this issue.
Happy decided to tells readers that;
In response, I wrote
Happy responded:
I reviewed my comment at 2019-04-03 at 11:10, and am having some difficulty in ascertaining what I have written that happy believes to be the opposite of neutral and objective. Perhaps other readers are having the same problem.
I wonder if happy might be confident enough in his description of the nature of all my comments to point out the language in the comment at 11:10 that he concludes is “quite the opposite” of a neutral and objective comment.
If I can understand the factual basis for happy’s criticism, it may help me temper my comments to make them more interesting and invite a response on the merits from happy and other readers. Happy’s clarification could help others who have been mislead by the inappropriate bias in anything I have written, and perhaps even enlighten readers, thereby helping them understand why happy sunnarily rejects the validity of the factual statements underlying my comments.
“summarily” not sunnarily – sorry, I accidentily hit “publish” before I finished editing. No bias was intended.
Oh lord BCB you over-intellectualize. Between Mike who calls the fetus an unwanted parasite, Deb who needs to inject outdated feminist rhetoric (it’s all about misogyny), and you who want to say if we force a pregnant woman to give resources to a fetus why aren’t we forcing her to give resources to her parents and other strange arguments that won’t fly with moderate practical people, ProChoice might just end up losing if they don’t concentrate on making an argument to the centrist, moderate, voting block that matters. Your mental gymnastics are a waste of time. If you care about ProChoice you better get a handle on a message that will sell and silence outlandish statements that will turn voters to the other side. Unwanted parasite??? That’s a disgusting thing to say.
Happy is beginning to sound like OldSferBrains telling us we have to become them to get along with them.
Like I said before, abortion rights will not be decided on scientific/medical/biological truths. It will be decided by at least five unqualified, political ideologues that are being politically seated without regard to judicial temperament or knowledge of the constitution.
These judges aer hand picked and trained by the heritage foundation to hew the wingnut/fake kristianity dogma to make America appear to be a kristian nation and only a kristiaN nation.
Happy, so now it seems that you implicitly admit that you cannot identify any language in my 11:10 comment that you believe to be “quite the opposite” of neutral and objective, despite your earlier statements to the contrary?
Or perhaps you have concluded that intellectual analysis of an issue is inappropriate because you believe intellectual anaysis to be an ineffective tool to persuade people to accept any particular point of view? If this is the case, then we disagree on the meaning of “quite the opposite” of neutral and objective. I could be wrong, but I was always taught that neutral and objective facts should be the foundation of intellectual discussion.
And if you are unwilling to even address the merits of the concerns I raised in my 11:10 comment, I guess there is no point in further attempts to discuss them with you. It seems that you would prefer to elaborate of what you conclude are the techniques of successful persuasion rather than the merits of the substance set forth by my comments. This, in turn, suggests that your assessment that my comments are “always . . . quite the opposite” of neutral and objective was actually a technique to avoid addressing potential problematic and undesired consequences of empowering the government to pre-empt individual decisions on procreation or bodily automony.
BCB, HC does use a technique which I’d call avoidance or minimization so that he only addresses an issue on his terms. He simply declares any other terms invalid in various derogatory ways– “Oh lord BCB you over-intellectualize. Between Mike who calls the fetus an unwanted parasite, Deb who needs to inject outdated feminist rhetoric.”
Meanwhile, he never addresses the issues we raise.
bcb and Debbo work as a team to get to then heart of the matter. And i am prowd to say both have letters in their names.
Kristi’s winning the governorship had nothing to do with her being a woman and, in SD, everything to do with the R behind her name. It’s more newsworthy that her Democrat opponent came within single digits of beating her.
SD has yet to come into the 21st century but at least we’re ahead of Georgia and Alabama in tabling the heartbeat bill.
Georgia? Georgia is investing more money in known hackable, voting machines. I wonder if wingnut pols have a heartbeat in Georgia. Heartbeat abortion bill will eventually come up in Northern Mississippi. It is too much of a base rouser not to.
“According to 2018 Pew Research, female workers in the United States still earn just 85 percent of what their male peers take home. And according to the latest report by McKinsey & Company and LeanIn.org, only 79 women are promoted to manager positions for every 100 men who are promoted in North America, which means the number of women in management will increase by just one percent over the next decade if current promotion rates continue. And in Canada, men continue to reach management positions more often and much earlier. Research published in 2017 by the National Women’s Law Center also reveals that mothers, victims of the so-named “motherhood penalty,” suffer $16,000 in lost wages each year. On top of that, 41 percent of employed Americans perceive mothers to be less devoted to their jobs, according to a Bright Horizons study.”
“According to a 2018 study, researchers found that high-achieving men were called back after job interviews far more often than high-achieving women—specifically at a rate of roughly 2-to-1. ”
“For context, U.S. startups have raised a total of $96.7 billion in 2018, a number that’s expected to surpass $100 billion before the year is through. Female-founded companies have raised just 2.2 percent of that total; mixed-gender teams have raised about 12.8 percent, up from roughly 10.4 percent last year.
“Last year, U.S. startups raised a total of $82 billion across more than 9,000 deals in what was similarly an impressive year for the venture industry.”
Tech Crunch
“While the gender pay gap has shrunk since 1980, it’s also remained relatively constant for the past 15 years, according to Pew’s research.”
Harper’s Bazaar
Kristi’s winning does have meaning she beat Marty Jackley, another Republican, and a male.
“(More than a third of women globally are physically or sexually violated in their lifetime, most by intimate partners.”
“Gender inequality is a global story: It is the most common, most deeply entrenched injustice he has encountered in six years of walking [around the world].”
Camille Bromley
National Geographic
But amazingly Deb Georgia is in the United States Cory likes it when you stay on topic for a reason. Anyone can shift or expand the topic simply to divert. It’s 67 degrees right now in Atlanta holy smokes.
I’m addressing Ryan’s absurd claim that women have it better than men.
“Did you know that the Equal Rights Amendment was introduced in 1967 and still hasn’t passed? We need 38 states to agree that discrimination on the basis of sex is unconstitutional. We’ve had a record number of women running for office and winning, and still we have 23 percent of the House and 25 percent of the Senate.
“I’m getting tired of the novelty of the first female governor of this state, the first female African-American mayor of this city. When is it going to become the norm instead of the exception?
“Right now, less than 5 percent of women are CEOs in Fortune 500 companies.
“So yes, when you look at men’s basketball and 99 percent of the jobs go to men, why shouldn’t 100 or 99 percent of the jobs in women’s basketball go to women? Maybe it’s because we only have 10 percent women athletic directors in Division I. People hire people who look like them, and that’s the problem.”
Muffet McGraw, women’s basketball coach at defending national champion Notre Dame. 4/5/2019
Those examples reflect a pivot in American thinking, something to be proud about, not disdain as singular. A lesbian, black woman mayor of a major U.S. city that’s huge and even though Kristie is behind the times in some areas she’s still woman and from her perspective obviously not out to erode women’s rights. A female governor of South Dakota is also huge but doesn’t fit the liberal narrative so you reject its importance. The problem is religion pure and simple, and reading your walkabout story Hindu and Muslim cultures expect submission from women so put the blame where it is due. As you’ve said 70% of the American public as a whole agree with Pro-Choice but the far-right fundamentalists have a stranglehold on the Republican Party. They embraced that faction to which they are now beholden none or almost no Republicans can run Pro-Choice obviously it’s just politics they are no doubt sick of the fundamentalists themselves but they’re in handcuffs for the votes (or think they are).
From Pew Research:
1″Women and men in both political parties believe recent sexual harassment allegations primarily reflect widespread societal problems. Two-thirds of Americans overall (66%) attribute the allegations mainly to widespread problems in society, while just 28% of adults attribute them mainly to incidents of individual misconduct, according to a survey conducted in November and December.
2″About one-in-five employed women in the U.S. (22%) say they have been sexually harassed at work.
3″About four-in-ten employed women (42%) say they have experienced some form of gender discrimination at work, according to the July and August Pew Research Center survey.
4″A majority of women say the country hasn’t gone far enough when it comes to giving women equal rights with men. About six-in-ten women (57%) hold this view, compared with 42% of men.
5″Majorities of both women (54%) and men (58%) say there is no difference in terms of which gender has it easier in the country these days.
6″Roughly three-quarters of U.S. adults (73%) see gender discrimination in the tech industry as at least a minor problem.
7″Most Americans say women face a lot of pressure to be an involved parent and be physically attractive. Large majorities say women face a lot of pressure to be an involved parent (77%) and be physically attractive (71%). Far fewer say men face these types of pressures.
8″A substantial share of men in the U.S. (45%) say men face a lot or some pressure to join in when other men talk about women in a sexual way. Four-in-ten men perceive similar societal pressure on men to have many sexual partners.
9″Seven-in-ten women see online harassment as a major problem.
10″About one-in-five U.S. women under 30 say they have been sexually harassed online.
From Pew Research:
“On average, American men have more leisure time each day than American women—the difference works out to about half an hour.
“This inequity, according to a recent analysis of government data by the Pew Research Center, starts early. Among teens ages 15 to 17, the analysis found, boys had roughly an hour more of free time each day than girls.”
Quote: Further, the average American woman spends 28 more minutes a day than the average American man on “personal care”—a time-use category that encompasses activities such as showering, getting dressed, and applying makeup.
Deb – That’s a choice!!! Vanity before chillin out with her man.
https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/01/tv-leisure-gender-gap/579547/
https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/01/tv-leisure-gender-gap/579547/
Hap, I don’t think you’ll want to risk making that argument with my wife.
“Analysis of the relevant literature suggests that the erosion of American democracy can be attributed to three interrelated causes: Ignorance (especially of politics and governance, and defined as a lack of essential information, not stupidity); the growth of Inequality (not just economic inequality, but also civic inequality, and power and informational asymmetries), and a resurgent Tribalism (racism and White Nationalism, sexism, homophobia, religious bigotry, the urban/rural divide, and political identity).”
Sheila Kennedy
https://short1.link/7kRBqk
Link for above.
“Masturbation is murder!”
https://thenib.com/clinical-trials
Debbo, some additional support for your proposition:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk
Guess that eliminates the “Lemon Song” by Led Zep.
Results of free birth control in Colorado.
https://www.facebook.com/1539955764/posts/10218772799581314/
“Privileged,” by Kyle Korver in the Player’s Tribune. NBA/WNBA
“What I’m realizing is, no matter how passionately I commit to being an ally, and no matter how unwavering my support is for NBA and WNBA players of color….. I’m still in this conversation from the privileged perspective of opting in to it. Which of course means that on the flip side, I could just as easily opt out of it. Every day, I’m given that choice — I’m granted that privilege — based on the color of my skin.
“How can I — as a white man, part of this systemic problem — become part of the solution when it comes to racism in my workplace? In my community? In this country?”
I love Monty Python! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂 Thanks BCB.
Mike, I know whereof ye speak. 😁😁
Kyle Korver- speaking like a true iowan.
The paper version of the Strib has a little side panel paragraph that’s apparently too trivial to include in the online version and not worth greater mention.
small headline:
“DOJ stops defending mutilation ban”
First sentence:
“The Justice Department said it has stopped defending a federal prohibition on female genital mutilation.”
My head exploded. That’s probably the most effective way the deministration and GOP could find to describe how much they totally loathe and detest women. They really are declaring total war on women.
It doesn’t help that a major” news” outlet found this only minimally newsworthy. It’s just another GOP attack on the diminishing human rights of women.
From the Strib Science section:
“A study, released in JAMA by researchers from Northwestern Medicine and the university’s Kellogg School of Management, revealed women scientists received less federal funding than male scientists.
” The study analyzed nearly 54,000 grants from the National Institutes of Health to first-time principal investigators and found women received about $40,000 less than men on average. Analyzing grants given from 2006 to 2017, researchers found women received an average grant amount of $126,615, while men received on average $165,721.”
https://short1.link/eGRUJ0
Debbo, you know the little ladies aren’t physically capable of using a microscope or hammering a computer keyboard as bigly as big sweaty men. What could you have been thinking?
You’re right. I shouldn’t worry my silly little head about it.
You can stay in denial of the physical and genetic differences if you want to, but why not understand and appreciate them rather than insist they don’t exist. Speaking generally most women don’t want to be infantry soldiers. Most women don’t want to kill. They have the genes to nurture hallelujah for that. Men take on the more dangerous jobs as a general statement and get paid more. Oh yeah, and then the women make a choice to spend 30 minutes more in the bathroom than men just to look pretty. The funny thing is, to a great extent women dress up for other women, so they’re oppressing each other, it’s not even the men. The guy is just waiting patiently.
From the Global Gender Gap Report by the World Economic Forum, covering 2018:
“Gender parity is fundamental to whether and how economies and societies thrive. Ensuring the full development and appropriate deployment of half of the world’s total talent pool has a vast bearing on the growth, competitiveness and future-readiness of economies and businesses worldwide. The Global Gender Gap Report benchmarks 149 countries on their progress towards gender parity across four thematic dimensions: Economic Participation and Opportunity, Educational Attainment, Health and Survival, and Political Empowerment. In addition, this year’s edition studies skills gender gaps related to Artificial Intelligence (AI).”
The US ranks 51st in terms of gender gap, behind such stalwarts of equality as Bangladesh, Uganda, Serbia, Albania, Costa Rica and Slovenia. Imagine that.
Melania came from a nation where she had much greater equality than she does now. Yet another reason for her to realize the $ wasn’t worth it.
In political empowerment of women the US ranks 98th. For shame.
There is a tremendous amount of information about women around the world in this report, including many, many charts. It’s extremely well-researched with a copious bibliography and notes. Go to weforum.org and download the Global Gender Gap Report for 2018.
It took until 2019 for the US Congress to have a Mother’s Caucus. Does the SD lege have a Mother’s Caucus?
“How to Confront Bias Without Alienating People” in Fast Company.
(I struggle with that in relation to Ryan and HC.) This article can be helpful to all of us.
“it shouldn’t be the job of minorities and marginalized communities to educate others about their blind spots, especially when they face enough additional emotional labor in their day-to-day lives.”
But, nonetheless, that is the situation.
https://short1.link/PLAWuf
“It has recently become noticeable that many of you are trying to pass laws that affect women’s bodies, without the knowledge of how women’s bodies work. As an Ob/Gyn for 25+ years I feel that I am somewhat of an expert on this topic and would like to set the record straight on a few common misperceptions.”
You can find the entire piece at https://short1.link/PNwLTb
Esteemed Irish novelist Sally Rooney as interviewed in Esquire:
“Specifically for young men, I think there is a sense in which we as a culture are struggling to identify forms of masculinity that are not oppressive. I think that there is a sense of deep uncertainty about identity that can set in when you feel like you’re playing a dominant role in a system that you don’t necessarily endorse. I’m not saying that’s a malaise that’s afflicting most young men, because I have absolutely no authority to speak on that. But I do think there’s a sense in which men are seeking a form of masculinity that doesn’t make them feel like a bad person for engaging in it. I don’t think we, as a culture, have figured out an answer to that.
“I do subscribe to the school of thought that says that the patriarchal social system, while obviously being devised to favor men as a class and to deprive women as a class of certain key socio-economic rights, nonetheless it’s not actually that pleasant for the people who are experiencing it as men. We’re all thrown these roles at birth in a coercive system, then expected to attach huge amounts of our psychological wellbeing to upholding these roles, and I don’t think that’s pleasant for the people who play the dominant roles, nor the people who play the inferior parts. I’m not trying to say it’s equally hard for all of us. As a class, men are absolutely advantaged, but as individual beings moving around as members of that class, do they actually love it? There’s that conversation in the book where Peggy says, ‘Do you not actually enjoy your male privilege?’ And Connell says no. It’s an imposed identity for him that you have to just make peace with in some way, and I don’t think that’s necessarily easy.”
Think Progress:
“When abortion-seekers are thought of solely as women, the experiences of trans and non-binary folks are erased. These individuals also obtain the procedure because needing an abortion has to do with a person’s reproductive system and not their gender.”
“Patriarchy and misogyny is absolutely holding women back and actively holding back trans and non-binary folks at the same time. Our patriarchal system is about keeping cis men in power,” said Alexis Cole, policy director of URGE: Unite for Reproductive & Gender Equity.”
“I bet implementing mandatory child support at first detected heartbeat and a required billing of their insurance at 50% of the total medical bill would change a lot of dude’s minds about women’s choices.”
https://www.facebook.com/161780740866340/posts/828411667536574/
From Axios:
” In the U.S., 37 states require schools to teach abstinence as part of sex-education. Zero states mandate that they address date rape.”
“Tech companies are stepping in to help people identify and handle the problem of drug-facilitated sexual assault, otherwise known as date rape, writes Axios’ Alexi McCammond.
” Numerous companies are offering devices to detect a contaminated drink. They market straws, drink stirrers, coasters, and strip tests, among other products, to test on the spot whether their drinks have been spiked with drugs.
” The products aren’t perfect. They’re single-use, have an expiration date, and don’t say what exactly (or how much) is in your drink.”
IOW, tech companies are taking a woman’s right to security much more seriously than state legislatures.
“There were seven women and five men who were counted as full-time sales associates. In only one case was a woman making more than a man, and it was only when you compared the highest-paid woman with the lowest-paid man. The women’s hourly wages averaged $10.39, and the men’s averaged $13.40 — so that on average, a woman working a 30-hour workweek for 52 weeks each year would make $16,208.40 before bonuses, while a man working the same amount would make $20,904. The men did not have more experience, nor were they quantifiably better salespeople.”
After the rampant sexual harassment was figured in, tens of thousands of women who worked for Sterling Jewelry were included in the class action lawsuit. Sterling is Jared, Kay, Zales and other stores.
https://short1.link/S7kD5O
“In Minnesota, women lose a combined total of nearly $15 billion every year due to the wage gap. Angie is fighting to close the gap.”
Rep. Angie Craig, D-MN2
Bad news, Debbo….. https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/440395-supreme-court-rules-in-favor-of-businesses-seeking-to-block-class
5-4 activist wingnuts ignored precedence to allow businesses to thwart class action suits. All four good justices wrote separate dissenting opinions.
“The average age of coming to grips with childhood molestation and being ready to talk about it? According to Child USA, it’s 52.”
Mike, I hate the GOP leadership.
Well,well,well…certain cretins have glommed onto Drumpf’s grab ’em by the hoo haw comment and taken it to another level.
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/policy-strategy/441756-military-sexual-assaults-reported-in-pentagon-survey-rise
38% rise in one year? Is that some sort of a record, even for the military? Sexual assaults lead to more abortions, so let’s blame the victims for getting assaulted.
Demented Donny is like a putrid infection that is spreading. The rot grows.
“The U.S. position is thus that a woman who has been raped as an act of war and who finds herself pregnant as a result has no right to terminate that pregnancy. Once again, we see that the “religious” doctrine espoused by the President, his Vice-President and his entire party classifies women as incubators, not humans entitled to and capable of self-determination.”
https://short1.link/EjkcLu
I didn’t think the level of my loathing for the above GOP hyenas could rise any further. I was wrong.
“The administration of America’s despicable President–himself a serial abuser and accused rapist–has shamed the country once again.”
https://short1.link/1cYU6R
“Existing as a woman in the world can be frustrating. Men hit on us at bars, make passes at us on the train, even follow us on the streets. It’s so stressful to have to constantly monitor our what we’re wearing, how much we’re drinking, and who’s around us so that we aren’t faced with unwanted male attention. But recently, I’ve noticed that there’s an emerging group of women who barely have to deal with any attention from men at all. I wanted that for my life, so I decided to be one of those women. And that’s why I’m announcing that I’m running for president of the United States.”
Sad but accurate.
Sad but accurate, Debbo. Women in America are highly disrespected and the Trump Chumps are making it worse.
I expect men hit on some women in bars, and pay attention to what some women are wearing. There is a huge group of women who barely have to deal with any attention from men at all, without even trying. Most of those women don’t really want that, they want to be the sort that has to deal with the attention.
But, as Mr. H’s French friends would say, la vie aussi, or some such gibberish.
“An American mom today is 50% more likely to die in childbirth than her own mother was,” said Dr. Neel Shah, a Harvard Medical School obstetrician.
https://short1.link/eUnKjN
And the GOP goes merrily on it’s way, passing even more laws that compromise women’s health.
From Axios:
Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) signed one of the nation’s strictest anti-abortion bills into law, setting “the stage for a legal battle that the legislation’s critics hope will spill over to the polls in 2020,” the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports.
The bill “outlaws most abortions once a doctor can detect a fetus’ ‘heartbeat’ — usually about six weeks into a pregnancy and before many women know they’re pregnant.”
Why it matters: “Georgia’s law is one of several moving through Republican-run state governments across the country with the express purpose of challenging the U.S. Supreme Court’s Roe v. Wade decision.”
And the maternal death rate will climb higher, something the GOP simply shrugs off. Their hatred for and fear of women is very deep.
This is a snapshot of how the medical profession mistreats women. The large majority of medical studies are done on males, as if females and males are identical, but the hormonal differences are critical factors.
In the paragraph below, where it says “men,” that’s exactly what it means. They studied males while ignoring women. Why not study both?
______________________
The time Americans actually take off from work has declined from 20.3 days per year in 1987 to 17.2 days in 2017. In 2017, the average U.S. worker didn’t take six of their paid vacation days on average, which in aggregate amounts to 705 million days of travel that were not used to relax and recharge. That can have serious effects: people who use all or most of their vacation were found in one study to be more likely to receive a raise or bonus, and a 40-year cardiovascular health study found from 1974 to 2004, men who took at least three weeks of vacation were 37 percent less likely to die than those who didn’t.
Ben Healy, The Atlantic
In addition to the above comment– the leading cause of death in women is cardiovascular disease.
In another wingnut assault on poors, Drumpf wants to recalculate inflation as a percentage of the poverty rate so more people will appear above the limits and can be removed so their money can be given to the koch bros.
https://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-trump-poverty-rate-20190507-story.html
Bloomberg and NYT carried similar stories.
“You know what? Vasectomies are reversible. Why not just make all men get them? And then if they’re truly ready to be a father, they can undo them.
“What’s that? You have problems with this? Yes, you’re right, it’s wrong to regulate men’s bodies like that.”
Geraldine on Twitter. Ensuing comments from women and men were hugely in favor. 😆😆😆
Three production companies told Georgia they were not interested in filming there because of the assault on women’s rights.
https://people.com/movies/production-companies-wont-film-in-georgia-abortion-law/
mfi
Just read on Facebook where over 100 actors will boycott Georgia.
Thanks for the info, Roger. Teach them right to lose money.
Regarding the Georgia misogynists:
“I can’t ask any female member of any film production with which I am involved to so marginalize themselves or compromise their inalienable authority over their own bodies.”
https://short1.link/wcbrWZ
***Inalienable authority over their own bodies***
They just keep coming after the women. GOP dearly desires a Handmaid’s nation. We’re looking at Georgia, Aladamnbama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Ohio, Kentucky and Missouri in charge of female human reproduction, just about like their other livestock.
https://short1.link/Z8EhLZ
I don’t know if this will work, but actress Alyssa Milano has suggested a sex strike until men quit meddling with women’s bodies.
It won’t work for the women who like sex, Mr. C.
Roger, a 1600+ year old idea reborn!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysistrata
Bear – Thanks for the reminder of this play.
If only, huh?
Actually, sex strikes have been held and have been effective. One in an African nation was based on the ultimatum that a civil war between tribes must end. It did.
Based on how more violent/conservative men see women, sex is women’s most effective tool. I’m guessing that, although co-opted women will not participate, women in the middle and on the left are quite likely to. In addition, students in high school and college are more closely aligned with Democratic and democratic values and may also participate. That will motivate their husbands/mates/boyfriends to become actively involved. That will make a very significant difference.
Who could lead such a strike? Who could we find who has been leading such a strike for perhaps 70 years? If only there was somebody vastly experienced in leading such sex strikes. But who could we find? Hmm. Who might it be?
I suspect that anyone who knows grudznick understands quite well how easy it would be to avoid any contact at all with it.
Kentucky’s second trimester abortion ban was recently struck down by a federal court.
Good news! It’s nice to get some. I expect more such court rulings, but the knowledge that there are so many hateful GOP males out there is both somewhat scary and depressing.
I think every man who supports any limitations on a woman’s complete and unfettered bodily autonomy should be forced to undergo a vasectomy and take a medication that causes impotence.
Does that sound fair enough, Mike, Roger, CIRD?
After giving this some long serious thought, I have come up with a new solution. It might be a little radical but here goes, child support should began at erection.
Roger, I’m not sure that will work, but . . . :-)
Debbo, sounds as fair as anything they’re trying to push on us women from the hinterlands.
The bad news is that some of those hateful GOP misogynists are on the Supreme Court, and that’s what these new laws are aimed at, ultimately.
The good news, Ms. Friday, is that there are unhateful GOP egalitarians, like grudznick, to help balance things out.
When grudznick dresses like a cowboy he calls himself Franz Tost. 😳
Of course there are, grudz. Too bad they’re so few and far between, in my experience. Clarence Thomas and the two most recent on the Supreme Court are not among them.
Don’t listen to her, Ms. Friday, her mind is clouded with leading a sex strike for the past 70 years.
grudznick has been voted the most-loved conservative on this blog the past 3 years running.
What GOP policies hath wrought:
“Pregnancy-related deaths are rising in the United States, and according to a new report from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 60 percent of those deaths are preventable. The U.S. is the only developed country in the world in which maternal mortality rates are rising.”
“Women of color had significantly higher rates of maternal mortality. Black women in particular were more than three times as likely to have a pregnancy-related death.”
“high rates of maternal mortality in the United States have been attributed to a combination of factors including lack of access to insurance and medical care, poorly equipped hospitals and an insufficient focus on postpartum health.
“Others point to the stark racial variation in death rates as evidence of institutional racism within U.S. medical and health care systems.”
“First, everyone — from doctors to the media to the public — needs to stop blaming women for their own deaths.” — Monica R. McLemore, Scientific American
is.gd/2pQpDU
Racism and misogyny, 2 of the GOP’s favorite things, are clearly in evidence here. Their policies are killing people.
“If you look at national polling, this [Alabama abortion restrictions] isn’t where the American public is and it frankly isn’t even where mainstream Republicans are,” said Debbie Walsh, director of the Center for American Women and Politics at Rutgers University. “The harshness of it is pretty shocking.”
USA Today
“Nearly 60% of U.S. adults say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, according to a 2018 survey from the Pew Research Center.”
“While Gallup shows Americans are evenly split on how they personally identify — 48% of Americans consider themselves pro-life and 48% are pro-choice — as of 2018, 79% of Americans believe abortion should be legal in at least some circumstances.”
USA Today
I must admit I was wrong. I believed my otherwise beloved state was the most backward of the fifty. Now I am gob-smacked to learn that Alabama is moreso.
I understand Robin.
Hard to decide if that’s good or bad news about SoDak and Aladamnbama. What do we say? “Hooray! South Dakota doesn’t hate women the most!”? Ugh.
Wouldn’t it be great to say “Hooray! SD is on our side!”? I’m not holding my breath as long as the misogynist SDGOP leadership is in charge.
Here’s the thing that straight white Christian males will never get in their bones– what it’s like to be hated just because you exist. Women get it, all people of color absolutely get it, LBTG people get it, Muslims certainly get it.
Straight white Christian males do not get it, but, if they’re males of dignity, self-respect, confidence, empathy, kindness, courage and intelligence, they ask those of us who do get it. Then they shut up, listen and believe us.
That’s how we create cultures better for ALL of us.
“Shut up, listen and believe us”. If only. There are so many who do, who understand. Unfortunately the ones who don’t control the legislatures. And the governorships. And the administration. And now the Supreme Court.
A list of women too long to read is donating tonight to a Facebook fund to help Alabama women fight to the case. It’s amazing. I shouldn’t say they’re all women, you can’t possibly read them all. Wow.. Last night, and now this. Incredible.
Yep. Fighting like tigers to protect our basic human rights.
We are in the Endgame now.
After playing the long game of slow erosion and testing the waters of how far abortion restrictions can go and still sneak under Roe (while also restricting Roe’s assurances), Alabama looks to be making a full-on assault at the king. Of course Alabama’s restriction is unconstitutional — that’s the point. Now is the moment where the 5-4 conservative Supreme Court, the court set up by the Garland obstruction, the court set up by the election of a GOP president who placed two justices approved for this upheaval, is used to not rule on Alabama’s restriction but to rule on Roe itself.
Given the tone of political discourse, the Alabama decision will cripple Roe and may well take out the 19th Amendment as well for good measure.
https://short1.link/5DftPZ
More evidence of the bloody, vicious GOP War on Women. They’ve appointed bigoted, self-hating Wendy Vitter, wife of a bigot, to a lifetime judgeship. Her bizarre “beliefs” include that abortion causes cancer and birth control leads to a violent death. She thinks the discriminatory “separate but equal” theory is just fine and if hubby Drew cheats on her apparently she will cut off his teeny weeny as Ms. Bobbit did. The loony Mrs. Vitter says she would have amputated President Clinton’s penis, so Drew better behave.
Yeah, so the vile GOP has put this hateful, ignorant, bigoted and violent person on the court. No doubt they expect her to target women and POC. That is the USA’s other major political party. Sounds Nazified to me.
State-level polling found that support for a full abortion ban was below 25 percent in every state. – NYTimes
State lawmakers across the country consistently overestimate their own constituents’ support for full abortion bans, according to research by Leah Stokes and Matto Mildenberger of the University of California, Santa Barbara, as well as Alexander Hertel-Fernandez of Columbia University. As Ms. Stokes explained on Twitter, their survey found that some lawmakers estimated that 75 percent of their constituents supported such a ban, when the real number was usually below 15 percent.
Debbo, speaking of Mrs. Bobbit, I’ve always thought she should have thought of the garbage disposal. The preponderance of men in my life (none of them rapists or abusers) seem to think that is a bit extreme. I’m usually not that vicious on a day-to-day level, but the Alabama decision and the spirit of the times seem to be making me lean more than way.
Porter, polling and public opinion is mid-game/legislative strategic thinking. The packed Supreme Court and the Alabama prohibition are all that are needed to end safe, legal abortions for generations (at least in many states).
I agree, O. I think Roe is gone. The polls just show that Trumpoids are lying when they claim support for repealing it. Probably highly supported in SD though.
Porter, they have echo chamber support – and for them, that’s enough.
South Dakota is run by the Bishop not the people.
Vitter said that about Bobbit back when Clinton was being impeached. Her hubby and his diapers cheated on her several yeaRS after that and apparently no plumbing was changed.
Porter, the more we talk like that (“Roe is gone”) the more it becomes a fait accompli.
Didn’t SD voters soundly reject an anti-abortion measure on the ballot just a few years ago? Or am I remembering something that didn’t happen?
Robin … I think overturning Roe could be good for USA. It would take away the only power that unites groups with no other commonality. My state wouldn’t change if the federal law was gone. The majority of Americans live where there would be no change. More young people from SD would move here, is all. All in all repeal would destroy the thin bonds that hold Republicans together as a group. That o, is why it would be good. States rights aren’t bad as long as people can move away. People would help women in need. PS … I really don’t think Republicans are foolish enough to repeal Roe. I just like to bait them with poison.
No, Porter. People are not that ready, willing and able to move. If they have the money and the wherewithal to move, then they can just travel to another state if they decide they need to. This is an attempt of the evangelicals to have things all their way. And then the wall crumbles entirely.
“Mother Jones looked at the gender breakdown in these nine state legislatures and found a common thread: All have striking gender imbalances. Each legislature—with the exception of Georgia—has a lower than average percentage of women serving in its chambers. The national average is about 29 percent, but in Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama, women make up just 16 percent or less of the states’ legislators. Sometimes that means as few as 22 women are serving, as is the case in Alabama and Louisiana. While better, Georgia is still just a hair above the national average, with women accounting for 31 percent of the total legislators. But as one Georgia Democrat put it:
Jen Jordan
✔
@senatorjen
· May 7, 2019
Replying to @senatorjen
And no matter how many women you round up for your photo op in a closed signing ceremony, the vast majority of us care about the rule of law and the Constitution and our daughters. @GovKemp is right – this is just the beginning. #2020 #2024 #HB481 #gapol
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/05/gender-breakdown-state-legislatures-abortion-laws-alabama/
Without the “baby killers” to bring them together, the evangelicals will break from the Catholics and the liberals will have the largest voting block. Catholics hate born agains fundamentally, you know.
Could be true, Porter, but I’ve read many times that the abortion issue is NOT the priority issue for either Democrats or Republicans or Independents.
Ask any Catholic couple under 50 if they use birth control–they DO, never mind what the church says.
BTW, the title of that Mother Jones piece is “Yes, You Can Blame the Patriarchy for These Horrible Abortion Laws. We Did the Math.” (Present company excepted)
If memory serves me correctly, the legal intellectual/jurisprudential objection to Roe was not Roe‘s ruling on abortion per se, but Roe‘s reliance on a constitutional penumbra creating “right of privacy” that limits the government power over a wide array of personal and private matters. Justice Blackmun, writing for the majority, explained:
Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113, 152-54 (1973)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/410/113%26amp#writing-USSC_CR_0410_0113_ZO
The objection goes that there is no express language granting a right of privacy, hence Roe and cases before Roe that found that a “right of privacy” limiting state power was never part of our Constitution.
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/rightofprivacy.html
Of course Scalia is long gone, but has spawned quite a few disciples, a/k/a “originalists.”.
Intellectually, it seems a stretch to find a reason to overrule Roe while allowing the “right of privacy” to protect other rights. And that seems the most interesting point of all – people who want Roe reversed seem to have no friggin’ idea what such a ruling might mean in other aspects of their lives. It would open the door to allow state legislatures to decide what conduct would be permitted in the bedroom of every home in America. Funny, I strongly suspect no anti-Roe zealot really wants that, but what do I know.
Pat Robertson says Georgia’s new law is “extreme.” And Robertson knows extreme.
“people who want Roe reversed seem to have no friggin’ idea what such a ruling might mean in other aspects of their lives.”
BCB, I think many people who want Roe reversed have no friggin’ ideas, period. They just know that the GOP says it’s a conservative position and liberal women are slaughtering babies while laughing about it, all of which makes their god mad.
Mike, I think the full context of Robertson’s quote was that it was too extreme to survive a Roe test. My thinking is still that Alabama is looking for the Roe knock-out punch from the stolen and stacked court.
FiveThirtyEight (Perry Bacon Jr.) says there are three reasons for the limit abortions: 1. Brett Kavanaugh. 2. one-party rule in states. 3. Republicans unworried about backlash.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/three-reasons-theres-a-new-push-to-limit-abortion-in-state-legislatures/?ex_cid=story-facebook&fbclid=IwAR1ybh19qHCjQD5jjjqXC8y2GjYktREerIvqeiFGXcaw8IsjkoMrg7wMVA0
Robin, yes, the two times that abortion bans have been on the South Dakota ballot, in 2006 and 2008, South Dakotans have rejected greater restrictions 55% to 45%.
Thank you, Cory. How fast the time goes. Didn’t realize it was that far back. I’m thinking it would be much the same now. It isn’t what anybody wants, but people know that it has to be available and safe.
“Yet Romania’s prohibition of the procedure was disproportionately felt by low-income women and disadvantaged groups, which abortion-rights advocates in the United States fear would happen if the Alabama law came into force. As a last resort, many Romanian women turned to home and back-alley abortions, and by 1989, an estimated 10,000 women had died as a result of unsafe procedures. The real number of deaths might have been much higher, as women who sought abortions and those who helped them faced years of imprisonment if caught. Maternal mortality skyrocketed, doubling between 1965 and 1989.”
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/05/16/what-actually-happens-when-a-country-bans-abortion-romania-alabama/?fbclid=IwAR0VaIKLtTw2e5oXCVnAItrpCoPqjl2BAcpc8_5QLkQw7I8B8QOoqDmQ0mk
The women of Seth Meyer’s late night TV show have a few things to say about Aladamnbama’s control of women:
https://short1.link/r5kbcO
American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
_____________________________________________
“Medical decisions should be made by patients and their healthcare providers, we stand firmly against political interference in the exam room. ACOG and other leading professional medical organizations call on policymakers to partner with us to advance policies that protect the patient-physician relationship, expand access to timely, evidence-based, health care, and eliminate health disparities in our nation. https://www.acog.org/About-ACOG/News-Room/Statements/2019/Physicians-Call-on-Politicians-to-End-Political-Interference-in-Medicine #stopthebans”
I have no comment about this…..https://the-immoral-minority.com/new-ohio-law-means-that-11-year-old-made-pregnant-by-her-rapist-would-be-forced-to-give-birth-to-his-baby/
Mike, I probably can’t read it without smashing things, so I’ll pass. However, this is what happened in our dim and grim past that the GOP memorialize in their dominance fantasies.
Science has discovered that some humans possess Neanderthalic DNA. We don’t have to guess that it’s the GOP. I’d like to drag them by the hair and ….. Oh, never mind. This is a G rated, family blog.
Volunteers across the United States and Canada are joining forces to create a network of safe houses for abortion-seeking women from states that are trying to restrict the procedure. – Boston Globe
“Following Jesus is political by nature, but maybe no religious group has been more influenced — and co-opted — by political power than white, conservative Christians in America.”
” ‘Christian America’ was established by those who were almost exclusively white, male, and Christian. It was simultaneously used as a tool to eliminate and subjugate people of color and those who were not white, male, American, or Christian.”
“This is the very essence of Christianity that Westernized Christendom has utterly failed at: loving your neighbor.”
From The Atlantic https://short1.link/Y1g77p
LTE, Strib, 5/17/2019. (In its entirety.)
Dear Alabama,
Congratulations on saving the unborn babies (“Alabama passes near-total abortion ban,” May 15). Now, what are you going to do about the born babies? I eagerly await hearing about your Legislature and governor voting to expand spending for day care and early childhood education to ensure these born babies have the best chance at a successful life. And, of course, there will be need for more health care, since Alabama is fourth worst in the nation for infant mortality. (Does the state hold itself responsible for those born babies’ deaths?) And there will be more need for mental health care to help those born babies’ mothers work through their trauma, especially if the born babies are the product of rape or incest, but also to help process that in the land of the free, the state of Alabama has told them they must be mothers.
Yes, well done, Alabama. But now put your money where you mouth is, the true measure of commitment and conviction in this country.
Carla Steen, St. Paul
Good reading, Debbo. Keep it up.
“Thousands of Polish women dressed in black have boycotted work and taken to the streets in protest against a plan to ban abortions.
“Without half their workforce, government offices, universities and schools in 60 cities across the country closed their doors.”
The new proposal, now being examined by a parliamentary commission, would make all abortions illegal, even in cases of rape or when the woman’s life is at risk, with prison terms of up to five years for women seeking abortion and doctors who perform them.”
“We want doctors, not missionaries!”
Poster: “A government is not like a pregnancy – it can be terminated.”
Kasia Staszewska, director of Amnesty International UK’s Women’s Rights programme, said in a statement: “Poland’s abortion law is already one of the most restrictive in Europe and these proposals are an all-out assault on women and girls and their right to make decisions about their own bodies.
“A woman who needs an abortion is not a criminal and decisions about her body and her health should never be placed in the hands of politicians.”
From The Independent, UK
https://short1.link/nU0NfD
90% of Poland’s citizens belong to what religion?
Exactly. And the pedophilic Vatican Inc., world’s largest sex trafficking business, is fully behind this travesty disguised as a law.
What? Do they think they need more victims?
https://www.facebook.com/100025823808426/posts/347094029494721/
“In Aladamnbama, Ohio and Georgia you can’t harvest organs from someone who died without their consent — but you can force an 11 year old rape victim to have her rapist’s child without her consent.
“In short, even a corpse in AL, OH and GA has more rights to its body than do women and girls.”
https://juanitajean.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Screenshot_20190516-104140-768×655.png
Sad, but, true.
Juanita Jean is on a roll…
https://juanitajean.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/crmlu190516.gif
After we win the U.S. Senate … “Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey was first out of the gate on Wednesday, telling BuzzFeed News that if elected president, he would pursue legislation to guarantee abortion rights nationwide, superseding state restrictions, even if the Supreme Court overturned Roe. Senator Kirsten Gillibrand of New York promised the same on Thursday, and Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts came forward Friday morning with a more detailed plan.” NYT
*South Dakota: “Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to replace Sen. Rounds with Billie Sutton or another worthy candidate.”
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/05/previously-unreleased-poll-shows-alabama-voters-disapprove-of-extreme-abortion-ban/
Poll from last year showed 31% favor total ban on abortion and 65% were against it.
While federal legislation to protect abortion rights if Roe is overruled seems a great idea, I can’t help but wonder whether there is any constitutional basis for our federal government to enact such laws. While the federal government would have jurisdiction to pass laws to regulate what happens on federal property, just as it has jursidiction to pass federal criminal statutes concerning normnal local crimes like murder, assault, theft, etc. that occured on federal property or involved federal interests, I don’t see the hook that might enable the federal government to limit each state’s choice to deny women bodily integrity and safe medical care, absent Roe’s constitutional restrictions or right of privacy jurisprudence.
Conditioning federal funding for various progreams might also be an option, but the general protection of a woman’s right to her own bodily integrity and safe medical care seems beyond the power of the federal government. Under our Constitution each state seems to have plenary power to deny women such protection within that state’s jurisdictional boundaries.
What do you suggest, bcb, we kill red states? One could think they’d die on their own from lack of evolving, but that may take more time than Earth has to give. (mostly TIC)
BCB – This might warrant Don’t ask permission. Just apologize, if the Supreme Court strikes it down. That would take years.
mfi, the legally sound solution is a constitutional amendment expressly forbiding government restrictions on a person’s “right of privacy.” Perhaps something simple and starighforward like
This would eliminate the legal argument that a lack of such express language in the Constitution is the fatal flaw in the Roe decision, and would be consistent with prior SCOTUS rulings on privacy as described in Roe and the umkc.ed article I linked earlier.
Porter, can you elaborate?
BCB – No need to go down the road SD legislators travel if your law would suffice. I think it would, also.
SUTTON MEANS SENATE (see the hidden message?)
Wingnuts have managed to change several federal rules with no option of overturning the overturns. Why couldn’t Dems do the same?
Dems could declare Roe the law of the land and p on wingnuts and phony kristians.
I do see it Porter.
BCB, I think you’re right. An amendment is required to be safe. The “medical decisions” part would need just a little tweaking to protect minors from freaky parents, but I’m sure you were just expressing a quick and dirty example.
I want to make sure you gentlemen here on DFP understand how important your supportive and sometimes angry comments here are.
It feels like the attacks on women have just been relentless. For myself and several of my friends it’s been very emotionally wearing and frightening. There are many women who read DFP without commenting and your words matter to them too.
I feel that, even though it’s GOP men rabidly attacking women and POC, it’s not a women v. men issue, or color v. white. Its about basic human decency. The GOP who are leading and/or supporting these attacks have none. I’m so glad they are a minority, a very loud 25%, or even less.
We’re in this together.
BCB, I also feel passing the ERA amendment is critical. Those nasty GOP SOBs and their corrupted SCOTUS will not hesitate to take advantage of the fact that the constitution refers to equality only for “Men.”
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/444403-district-attorneys-near-atlanta-vow-not-to-prosecute-women-who-get
They doubt the constitutionality of the bill and say it does not set out or is blurry about who gets prosecuted.
How do you get prosecuted for something that is constitutional?
Hooray, Atlanta DAs!!!! 👄👄👄👄👄👄👄👄👄
Debbo, you are right – my suggestion was so quick & dirty that I even failed to correct my typos, let alone explore potentially necessary exceptions.
It might be more acceptable if an amendment were drafted more narrowly so the government could deal with situations like freaky parents, such as permitting the government to intervene and deprive individuals of this right of privacy pursuant to due process of law with proof that a compelling state interest outweighs privacy in the individual case.
On the other hand, judicial construction of the 1st Amendment wording that “Congress shall make no law . . .” has ruled that such language does not prevent all general laws in the field. For example, Courts have ruled that defamatory speech and true threats are not protected by the “no law” language.
And that opens up the possibility that the SCOTUS could still rule that a state’s interest in protecting unborn life is a compelling interest that outweighs a woman’s right to privacy in any event. So the solution may need to go further with amendment language that expressly declares abortion restrictions of any nature to be off limits.
From Axios:
“If a fetus is a person, it should get child support, due process and citizenship,” Carliss Chatman of Washington and Lee University School of Law writes on the cover of tomorrow’s WashPost Outlook:
The argument: “The logic of Alabama’s abortion law should permit you to claim a fetus on your taxes and collect insurance if you miscarry.”
Why it matters: “Trying to define citizenship and personhood based on the laws of each state creates some far-fetched and even ridiculous scenarios. If we follow that logic, we’ll tie our Constitution into a knot no court can untangle.”
Tom the Dancing Bug elaborates on Debbo’s post:
https://www.gocomics.com/tomthedancingbug/2019/05/17
Wait. What? Stand her ground? 😳
Excellent, BCB. 👏👏👏👏👏👏
https://www.sheilakennedy.net/2019/05/alabama/
Alabama has some interesting stats…..Alabama is ranked:
– 46th in health care
– 50th in education
– 45th in economy
– 45th in opportunity
– 45th in crime and corrections
– 49th overall
The Alabama legislature appears untroubled by these statistics. They are hysterical, however, about the prospect of allowing women to control their own reproduction.
I saw this interesting legal argument prenatal personhood: If the unborn is a person with the full rights of a citizen of the US (all unborn are citizens correct?), then do they have the right to habeas corpus to be freed from their involuntary imprisonment?
I also echo John and Debbo’s points above: why in the rush to criminalize abortion these legislators look at putting the mother in prison, the performing doctor in prison, but not the father in prison. Again, even in the perverse focus of accountability and responsibility, these laws seem to hold the father unaccountable for any element of a pregnancy. How about this: make it a common law marriage/partnership as soon as any man impregnates a woman. At the moment of conception, she is entitled to 1/2 his property and life-long financial support of the mother and child? If that puts a cheating polygamist in prison as well, then so be it.
“How about this: make it a common law marriage/partnership as soon as any man impregnates a woman. At the moment of conception, she is entitled to 1/2 his property and life-long financial support of the mother and child? If that puts a cheating polygamist in prison as well, then so be it.”
I support the general idea, except it may be the very last thing the woman wants. Let’s write the law excluding the marriage aspect.
Does that encourage some women to have multiple children via multiple fathers? Yes. It also encourages males to be responsible for their own birth control. They need not be helpless victims. I’ll bet pharmaceutical companies would be more than eager to develop male contraceptives for a big market.
Changes the entire paradigm when males are suddenly held responsible for their actions.
https://the-immoral-minority.com/bill-which-defines-abortion-as-murder-introduced-in-alaska/
Must be one of the koch bros model bills circulating around the states.
Debbo, you got mail.
A couple observations.
First, currently the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution declares that all children “born” in the U.S. “are citizens of the United States.” Thus, the answer to o’s inquiry whether “all unborn are citizens?,” must be no until the term “born” is redefined to include a diploid zygote that is unborn – i.e., has never emerged from a woman’s body.
Current medical and scientific advancements, however, make it a bit more complicated. It seems that some eggs, zygotes and embryos may well qualify as citizens because they meet the standard defintion of being born, i.e., coming into being as a result of “birth,” which in turn is typically defined as: “the emergence of a baby or other young from the body of its mother; the start of life as a physically separate being.”
We now have “in vitro fertilization” in which a young egg can be fertilized outside the body. Since these young embryos emerge “from the body of” their mothers and become “physically seperate” beings they seem to fall squarely within the parameters of the above concept of being “born,” hence qualifying as citizens under the 14th Amendment.
So, one must ask, what protections will Aladambama, South Dakota, and other anti-right of privacy states (those that will even deny women autonomy over their own bodies to protect the unborn) provide for these newly “born” zygote/embryo citizens? Indeed, if the true motive is not to control women, but to protect this type of life, then these zygotes and embryos can be granted full rights with no adverse effect upon a woman’s bodily integrity since they are already outside that body.
Do they get due process before being placed inside a body, frozen, donated to some stranger, donated to science, or disposed of? Should they be entitled to child support? Are their legal birthdays the date of conception outside a female body, or the day the egg is removed? Would an embryo frozen for 16 years be eligible for a driver’s licence, one frozen for 18 years be eligible to vote? Can they inherit property in equal shares as their adult brothers and sisters? Can the mother take state and federal income tax deductions for each one as a dependent? And doesn’t it seem a bit unfair to declare these little guys citizens while denying the same status to other zygotes and embryos just because they are unlucky enough to start out inside a woman’s most private physical attributes?
https://www.verywellfamily.com/extra-embryos-after-ivf-what-are-your-options-1960215
Next, as for the idea of declaring a common law marriage and creating property rights for the woman, don’t forget that this is a two way street – a father would also have property rights to half of the woman’s property and support rights in appropriate circumstances.
Howz this for genuiwine logic- https://www.rawstory.com/2019/05/tom-cotton-says-he-can-freely-oppose-abortion-rights-for-rape-victims-because-we-live-in-a-democratic-society/
He opposes abortion rights just because he can?
bcb, what would be wrong if wingnuts used immigrant women and promised them citizenship if they devoted their lives to being brood cows for wayward fetusses? Let’s say they kick out a WHITE bundle of joy once per year for like 20 years and then they are free to stay in America until the next nutjob wants to deport them.
Drumpf claimed today he is pro-life with exceptions for rape and incest. He should have added civilian drone strikes, immigrant children in Border Patrol custody, we lost another child a day or so ago to illness, and those embarrassng times when strange lawyers show up with paternity claims.
mfi – I am not sure I really understand your question.
I see nothing wrong with giving extra points to any immigrant mother of a U.S. citizen that seeks to become a citizen by naturalization. That should be solely the mother’s choice, however, not based on the choice or behavior of another person or “wingnut.”
Incidently, it appears from your link that Tom Cotton’s view that life begins at conception would have to agree with my analysis that an in vitro fertilization resulting in a zygote is an independent life, and should be granted citizenship since the egg resulting in the zygote has already emerged from the woman, hence was “born,” on U.S. soil.
Just trying to help wingnuts boost the rate of white babies being born so they can maintain their white privilege over all of us.
bob: “Next, as for the idea of declaring a common law marriage and creating property rights for the woman, don’t forget that this is a two way street – a father would also have property rights to half of the woman’s property and support rights in appropriate circumstances.”
Not necessarily, the property arrangement could be one-way toward the woman from the father. I agree that we ought to drop the marriage language (but I do so love charging cheaters who impregnate another woman with polygamy). How about the sharing the abortion penalties with the mother and doctor?
The right often complains of the unfunded mandate – when a regulation creates some cost (especially to a state or other local government entity). Isn’t a requirement to bring a child to term without accompanying that requirement without fully-funded continuing health care for the mother and child an unfunded mandate?
“Would an embryo frozen for 16 years be eligible for a driver’s licence, one frozen for 18 years be eligible to vote?”
BCB, I love these and your other thoughts on the ridiculous laws the red states are writing and passing.
I am thoroughly behind passing laws that require parental responsibilities for the impregnators, but I’m leery of any type of “marriage” with the woman involved. Historically, such deals have almost never worked out to the woman’s or child’s best interests. The rare cases of women making out “like bandits” are very rare and recent exceptions. Let the impregnator fulfill obligations to the state, which can then redirect the support.
That’s the way child support needs to be right now, so mothers aren’t left having to hire attorneys with funds they don’t have to force him to do his court ordered part. That’s why many deadbeat dads get away with it.
When impregnators don’t fulfill their legal responsibilities, it should be a crime and law enforcement should enforce it! (See what I did there?😉)
https://short1.link/0TRhRk
That link is from FB. I have many FB links, as you may have noticed, because women are SO INCREDIBLY ENRAGED about what’s going on.
This link is for those of you especially who’ve been denying that the GOP’s anti-abortion bills are about controlling women.
AL Sen. Clyde Chambliss, a sponsor of the bill, was debating a Democrat in the Senate chamber. The Democrat, Sen. Roger Smitherman, asked Chambliss about fertility clinic embryos. The state has at least 6 such clinics. Smitherman wanted to know what the clinics ought to do with the excess embryos they’d normally destroy when they weren’t needed. Chambliss responded,
“Oh, the egg in the lab doesn’t apply. It’s not in a woman. She’s not pregnant.”
It’s. Not. In. A. Woman.
That’s the deciding factor. IT’S NOT ABOUT THE EMBRYOS!!!
I’D SHOUT LOUDER IF I COULD!!!
This, my brothers, is why many of us females in this nation have never been so outraged or frightened in our lives. They are truly coming after us with everything they’ve got.
Debbo, that FB point seems right on the money. An embryo is an embryo, whether inside a woman or in a petri dish. If life were the true concern rather than controlling women we would see some pretty serious protection for every single “unnecessary” embyro out there resulting from in vitro fertilization. But since “its not in a woman” its seems to garner little concern.
I seem to recall Cory positing the question for people who argue that a fertilized egg is just as much a life as a newborn infant – if you were in a building that started on fire and in one room you saw a live crying newborn infant and in another room you saw 1000 frozen embryos, but could only save either the newborn baby or the embyros, which would you save? It is hard to find a self-declared anti-choice zealot that would say they would save the 1000 frozen embryos and leave the crying baby to burn to death.
Vermont and Mississippi have NEVER elected a woman to Congress. Never.
This “The Nib” comic is titled, “Support the Matriarchy,” and it’s about women in government, specifically state legislatures and DC.
https://short1.link/tfBC1g
Prissy Pussy Pency’s terrifying fear of and deep hatred for women is apparently limitless. He installed what his native state calls the “Indiana Mafia” in the HHS, as Surgeon General and Medicare & Medicaid Services Administrator.
They have not only hit Planned Parenthood with both barrels, but also Title X, which funds women’s health care assistance, loosened the definition of “rape”, tried to gag doctors (federal judge injuncted that), wrote a rule that allowed docs to not treat some patients based on doc’s religion and a few other things less egregious.
https://short1.link/3oXcDO
What a disgusting little, ass-kissing, little, slimy little weasel.
The GOP is attacking women with pretty much every weapon they can put their little groping, little impotent, little tiny little…….hands on. Those bastards don’t know it, but they are in for the fight of their lives and we will win. We women Will Not go back to being the property of a male or anyone else. 100% freedom and liberty. Period.
I have several cousins in Missouri, conservative cousins. Missouri is well along in the process of their own anti-women laws.
Yesterday on FB I saw Missouri cousins post opposing those bills/laws and complaining about the MO GOP. 🤔😲😲🙂 Keep it up women. Give em hell!
“If you keep making these Bill’s I’m going to keep talking about my abortion.”
https://short1.link/xP42Le
Nib comic
“bills”
Shut up, autocorrect!
Carliss Chatman, an assistant professor at Washington and Lee University School of Law, studies corporate personhood, corporate governance and ethics, among other legal topics. She wrote this article for the Washington Post.
Dr. Chatman agrees with points our own wise barrister, BCB, earlier raised.
“We ought to take our laws seriously. Under the laws, people have all sorts of rights and protections. When a state grants full personhood to a fetus, should they not apply equally?
“For example, should child support start at conception?
“And what about deportation? Can a pregnant immigrant who conceived her child in the U.S. be expelled?
“These laws redefining personhood surely mean that a pregnant woman cannot be incarcerated, as doing so requires confining a second person without due process.
“A fetus will need a name and a Social Security number to begin exercising private rights and using public resources.
“Once the life is established, can a mother insure a six-week fetus and collect if she miscarries? Will the tax code be adjusted in these states to allow parents to claim their unborn children as dependents at conception? If so, can a woman who suffers more than one miscarriage in a fiscal year claim all of her children?
“The census currently asks about the age and date of birth of each household resident. Will it now include the date of conception in select states so that fetuses may be counted?
“These questions highlight the unintended and potentially absurd consequences of sweeping abortion bans.”
https://short1.link/YJLyyM
This opinion piece is paywalled in the Strib, but it’s also in Wapo. Wapo allows a certain number of free reads, so you may be able to access it there. Paywalls are so irritating!
This comes from Toni Miller, Democratic candidate for the state house, District 9, 2016.
Toni wrote this as a FB post to help illustrate what kinds of games the misogynistic and supremely ignorant GOP is playing with women’s lives. If Toni lived in Georgia and birth control failed, she would either die or spend the rest of her life in jail. Ponder that as you read her post:
______________________________________________
In 2014 at the age of 36 I told Lane it’s now or never. Being of advanced maternal age, having uncontrolled high blood pressure at times, and two back surgeries under my belt, I knew the window for my child rearing days was slamming shut. We had a discussion about money, of course, and how this would affect Madeline. Being raised in a “traditional” family, I wondered if things would be confusing for her with her parents being divorced. Possibly having “half siblings” or “step siblings” if her mother remarried or had another child. Looking back, none of that mattered. Madeline is a great person and would have been a wonderful sister.
What did matter is whether or not I would survive a pregnancy.
In 2010 I had a back surgery. In 2012 I had another. The neurosurgeon told me it would “Be in my best interest” to never gain weight in my midsection. He was sitting at his desk and I was standing, and I made the gesture with both hands over my stomach that symbolizes “pregnant”, and he shook his head “no.”
When Lane and I started the discussion of having a child together, I made an appointment with a maternal/fetal medicine specialist. I was on a blood pressure medication that was teratogenic, meaning it causes fatal fetal anomalies. I would have to change to a different medication that didn’t work as well for me, in order for the fetus to survive. The specialist was uncouth, to say the least. But what he was, was brutally honest. He told me straight out, with degenerative disc disease I would likely blow my back out. He told me with my history of high blood pressure I was absolutely going to have pre-eclampsia, probably toxemia, high risk for stroke, and possibly death.
I walked out of the doctor’s office feeling utterly defeated.
I went home and told Lane the prognosis.
Lane told me he was not going to take the chance of losing me. He didn’t want Madeline to lose me. He didn’t want to raise a baby alone. He didn’t want the baby to be without a mother. We together, with heavy hearts, made the decision to not have a child.
I am writing this now because if I got pregnant, knowing it could kill me, I would have an abortion.
I know this because I had a neurosurgeon and a maternal/fetal medicine specialist tell me.
Whether or not a woman has an abortion should be left up to her and her doctor. I am choosing to share this very personal story, just so everyone understands how deeply personal this really, really is.
**Disclaimer for those in the back: Sometimes birth control fails!!**
**If you work for a Catholic Organization in South Dakota birth control isn’t covered under your insurance**
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I admire Toni for having the courage to write this intensely personal and private story. She shares it in the hope that this knowledge will help protect women from future attacks on their personal sovereignty.
If District 9 is so lucky to have Toni as a candidate again, they’d be the biggest ignoramuses in SD history if they don’t give her the most votes.
“Oregon Gov. Kate Brown (D) on Tuesday signed into law what advocates called the nation’s most progressive reproductive health policy, expanding access to abortion and birth control at a time when the Trump administration and other states are trying to restrict them.”
That sound you are hearing is a massive, unified sigh of female relief sweeping the country.
BIG NEWS! MALE CONTRACEPTION!!👏👏👏
http://flip.it/ImyPez
HOW TO PREVENT PREGNANCY IN THE FUTURE, MAYBE
1. Penis-haver coats his shoulders in contraceptive gel
2. Penis-haver doesn’t touch anyone for a few hours, then showers the gel off
3. Vagina-haver has to do absolutely nothing.
For the easily triggered Ryan:
“If you want to prevent abortion, you need to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Men seem unable (or unwilling) to admit that they cause 100% of them.”
humanparts.medium.com
“A woman can be the sluttiest slut in the entire world, she can love having orgasms all day and all night long, and she will never find herself with an unwanted pregnancy unless a man shows up and ejaculates irresponsibly. Though our society tends to villainize female pleasure, women’s enjoyment of sex does not equal unwanted pregnancy and abortion. Men’s enjoyment of sex and irresponsible ejaculations do.”
“Our current child support system is a well-known joke. Only about 61 percent of required payments by men are actually made, and there are little to no repercussions for skipping out. In some states, failing to pay child support doesn’t even affect your credit.”
“My point is we need to stop focusing on women if we’re trying to get rid of abortions. Think of abortion as the “cure” for an unwanted pregnancy. To stop abortions, we need to prevent the “disease” — meaning, the unwanted pregnancy itself. And the only way to do that is by focusing on men, because irresponsible ejaculations by men cause 100% of unwanted pregnancy.”
“[Men] Ask yourselves: What would it take for you to value the life of your sexual partner more than your own temporary pleasure or convenience?”
Previous source.
Travis Akers tweeted:
Children detained by Border Patrol had a heartbeat before they died.
Children executed by gunmen in their schools had a heartbeat before they died.
Children without health insurance and affordable medication had a heartbeat before they died.
When is the GOP fighting for them?