Last updated on 2019-01-23
Try as he might, Senator Stace Nelson (R-19/Fulton) still didn’t get his forced sonogram/amplified-fetal-heart-murmur bill into first position in the Senate hopper. But he did get seventh slot: Senate Bill 6 would subject pregnant women seeking abortions to a medically unnecessary procedure, just because he thinks he should get to force doctors to do his political bidding in the exam room.
Sharing Senator Nelson’s desire to play doctor (paging Ted Klaudt) are the following ultra-conservative Republican co-sponsors: Senators Jensen (Phil), Monroe, and Russell and Representatives Howard, Brunner, Dennert, Frye-Mueller, Goodwin, Gosch, Livermont, Marty, Mulally, Peterson (Sue), Pischke, and Wiese.
These legislators won’t raise a finger to expand Medicaid and provide more families with affordable health coverage. They won’t support public preschool to help kids get off to a good start in school. But they’ll all rally behind bad science and intrusive government and give Governor-Elect Kristi Noem this bill to sign to prove how much they all deserve to go to Heaven for loving fetuses and hating autonomous women.
The pro fetus party. Spend more time, massive amount of time, trying to force people to do things that are medically unnecessary. Playing doctor without ANY medical background and relying on information that is inaccurate. So dangerous. This is all about controlling women and trying to punish them. Who is paying for the sonogram, Mr Nelson? Is that now in the SD budget?
We have how many “back pack” programs right now? To feed children who don’t get enough to eat? We have people working 2, 3 (or more) jobs just to make ends meet, yet STILL qualify for food stamps and other government assistance because wages in this state aren’t high enough.
Mr Nelson and the rest of the “punish women at all costs”, pro fetus party has their priorities backwards. They hate big government and government overreach — unless it falls under controlling women.
Too bad wingnuts aren’t forced to defend themselves in public. I would like to have them stop by and mansplain all the reasons they believe women can’t make decisions for themselves.
I would also like to know which whacked out right wing websites provide the info they would spew to defend themselves and their views.
I have seen the waters Nelson fishes in. They are, imho, fouled by religious dogma and inaccuracies.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/16/abortion-pregnancy-centers-planned-parenthood-1007765
Wingnuts want anti-abortion clinics to apply for same funds PP gets. Another assault on women and reproductive health.
Evan, what does “running for representation” mean? Do you mean campaigning? As far as I know, nobody is currently “running for representation.”
Do you think somebody has to have experience in the healthcare “sector” to call out politicians who are trying to tell actual doctors how to do their jobs? Why would that be the case?
Are you aware that no person was born with political experience? You seem super smart, right? So you probably know that somebody needs to be a first-timer before they can be experienced, right? Must Cory somehow be a politician prior to being elected to satisfy your apparently not-well-thought-out standard of requiring people who run for office to have previously held an office…?
Well shoot, now my comment makes me look like I’m responding to a non-existent comment! Cory, please move my comment directly below stupid evan’s if that gets re-posted. Thanks!
Ryan,
Actually your comment would fit on any one of Cory’s thread where Evan has commented.
You are correct about “running for representation”, as far as I know Cory has not announced for any elective position.
A basic knowledges of government and civics is very clear about qualifications for political office. Qualifications are usually limited to age and residency.
What are the qualifications for the presidency, that the candidate be 35 years old and a natural citizen of the United States. That’s it.
Now about Cory.
Cory has operated the most successful political blog in the state for a number of years, there is no comparison. Cory will have 3 and even 4 stories a day while other South Dakota blogs will go for days without a new posts.
There is not a blogger in the state the does a better job of investigative reporting (i.e. EB-5 is just one example).
Cory doesn’t just run his mouth and type blogs, he actually does research, you need to do nothing more then read one his threads to see the amount of research he does.
For a number of years now the first thing I do in the morning when I log on to the Internet is scroll to Dakota Free Press.
Hey Stace! Next time you have a doctor appointment, I want to go with you. I will go in the room with you, refuse to let you speak and make all your medical decisions for you. Absurd, right? I have one message for all you pro-birth, fake christians: IT IS NOT YOUR BODY! IT IS NOT YOUR LIFE! M.Y.O.B.!
SDBlue, I think you hit the nail on the head. But we need laws governing the sexual behavior of all males. They cause 100% of the unplanned pregnancies in SD. Obviously we need to manage their sexual behavior because they lack the emotional maturity to do so.
There is a modern equivalent to saltpeter and I suggest it be part of a mandatory monthly vaccination plan beginning at age 10. At age 18 boys will appear before a board of postmenopausal women to make their pitch for cessation of the vaccine. Marital status is irrelevant. The board will have sole discretion and their decision will be final, no appeals.
There. Fixed it. Add it to your bill Stace. We must protect fetuses from those emotionally immature males who are causing the pregnancies.
SD Blue and Debbo. Good show! :)
Thanks Debbo! Your response is perfect!!
Debbo, I wold disagree on one element: instead of a board to review, the ENTIRE decision ought to be in the hands of the consenting female partner. ONLY the consenting female partner can give consent for even the attempt of conception.
In all seriousness, I don’t know if the saltpeter answer is right, but I really am convinced that women should have 100% of the consent in conception.
I also have a concern for a legislature that has such concern for “educating” about fetal development and an accompanying lack of concern for educating about (and providing support for) effective contraception.
Back in my day they used to have to saltpeter me regularly just to make it safe for all the womenfolk, and you would not believe all the complaining that cause from the womenfolk, so they overruled the man-hating short haired lady who was saltpetering me and the ladies were happy and the rest is history. But that was back in the day and you probably can’t get away with that now. Women’s rights to be promiscuous if they choose, you know.
And oh the stories my good friend Bill could tell.
Tell bill to tell em, grudz.
The Chef knows … (In the restaurant we had a quart, plastic, widemouth, container of saltpeter for curing meats. We put a skull and crossbones on the front for the non-English speakers. Very dangerous stuff.) Saltpeter is a naturally occurring chemical compound that has a variety of uses, both for food and otherwise. It’s used for food preservation and color retention, particularly in cured meats such as bacon, bologna, corned beef, ham, hot dogs and pepperoni.
There’s a common belief that saltpeter is used in prisons, the military and all-male colleges to blunt the male sex drive, which is untrue.
~ A solution is … a giant sperm bank holding deposits from every male at puberty after which forced sterilization occurs. Remember Free Love and the 60’s? I do. It was a direct result of the invention of birth control pills.
PS … The Catholic Church bans vasectomies. Doesn’t this say that it’s not about abortion, at all? It’s about demanding as many future Catholic children be born as possible. In short, follow the money.
Just another example of the real reason South Dakota is little more than a theocracy.
Exactly right, Porter, but Pope Whateverhiznameiz also bans in vitro fertilization which seems so hypocritical. I decided it makes no sense several decades ago.
I’m agreeing with o also. I couldn’t do the saltpeter thing. Too much like Bill Cosby. And I don’t want to spend the rest of my life in the next cell.
Catholics and their wannabes (born agains) comprise 65% of the populace. Women’s rights are literally the right to produce more offspring. Women’s choice is immaterial.
Very welll put, Roger. Cory is also a journalist and a teacher. Knows more about SD politics than 9/10ths of our legislators and most of all is an honest man. It’s almost no wonder SD didn’t elect him when we had the chance.
Thank you, O, Debbo, SDBlue, and other friends for returning to the main issue of women’s rights, which is far more important than my CV.
My concern is that, bad as this bill may be, there is no effective opposition in Pierre to stop it. What can shut down SB 7?
Ridicule and character decimation of Dennert, Phil Jenson, Monroe, Russell, Howard, Brunner, Frye-Muller, Sue Peterson, Pischte, Weise and Sen. Nelson. You know. What was done to Billie.
Mr. Ryan, my good friend Bill does indeed have many a story to tell, and it is a rare occasion, such as this, that he does. At this moment he is in my abode, feet up, cigar lit and his big toe protruding from his stained sock…and he has my gut busting and snot bubbling from my right nostril. I am going to endeavor to remember some of them so I can share with you fine fellows. The one he’s telling right now involves our common friend Bob and a load of the demon weed that takes a mind of its own, and it’s a doozie!
“These legislators won’t raise a finger to expand Medicaid and provide more families with affordable health coverage. They won’t support public preschool to help kids get off to a good start in school. But they’ll all rally behind bad science and intrusive government and give Governor-Elect Kristi Noem this bill to sign to prove how much they all deserve to go to Heaven for loving fetuses and hating autonomous women.”
Your last paragraph hits the nail on the head Cory. These same people who keep bringing these bills to save the fetus really don’t care about the baby or the child. If they were consistent they’d be for expanding Medicaid and support public preschool and also for raising teacher pay. The hypocrisy is astounding.
Mr. reitzel, many believe in supporting public preschool, expanding the Medicaid, but making good teachers rise to the top and the average or below average teachers accountable for their mediocrity. Few support just raising teacher pay for the heck of it, didn’t we just do that??
grudznick … The teacher pay is commensurate with the excellent job of the median in teaching. There are absolutely no mediocre, below acceptable level teachers in SD. There are many outstanding teachers who get paid the same as those just below excellent. Don’t you agree?
Grudge, what right winger’s are supporting public preschool or expanding Medicaid?
We’ve gone down the teacher pay road before. You’ve never explained how you can pick out a bad or mediocrity teacher,
Me.
And I have explained the SILT (Seven Indisputable Levels of Teacher) many times. Mr. H, he hisownself, has often pointed out the really good and the really really good teachers, so it’s not that tough to pick them out. And in any group, there is always an average. Law of the maths.
So if you have an average, which we have, and we know there are below average and above average, we have at least 3 levels of teachers. If we take Mr. H’s word about the really good and the really, really good ones, and the great ones he was talked about and is one himself, we have at least 3 levels if not 4 above the average so that’s 5 levels. We know there are below average, by the laws of the maths again. And we know that there are really bad teachers, again, based on some of Mr. H’s bloggings where he points out really bad ones.
So we have
Really Bad
Bad
Average
Good
Really Good
Really Really Good
Great
SILT. It is, of course, indisputable.
The average is well above the level of acceptability, thus those below average are still easily acceptable. There are no unacceptable, below allowable teachers. You set the average unrealistically low with no criterium to support your supposition. – Failing Grade “F”
Again you havent answered mmy quetion. How do you decide who’s good bad or average?
Good one, Owen. The old geezer’s been spewing this nonsense so long he’s beside himself now that his balloon has gone down like the Hindenburg.
Furthermore, if you can’t decide who’s average how do you decide what average even is? Grudzie’s whole argument is a wedge of swiss cheese.
If there were unacceptable teachers in SD someone would immediately say something. Every other little old lady in the state pictures themselves God’s watchdog and worships on the alter of “busy bodies” and “tattle tales”.
Owen, this is easy. Parents should have video and audio access to their child’s classroom at all times.
Cory wrote:
Dr. Stace Nelson wants Dr. Kristi Noem to sign an order directing their fellow physicians to display the sonogram images and play an audible (thus, amplified, thus exaggerated and inaccurate) version of output from the fetal heart auscultation.
Dr. Cory H.
Please explain in detail how a heart beat can be inaccurate and fake.
And the misogynist has arrived!
Jason, please explain in detail what you plan to do about the males who cause 100% of all unplanned pregnancies.
Jason, please explain in detail what you plan to do about the males who cause 100% of all unplanned pregnancies.
Still waiting. Jason, please explain in detail what you plan to do about the males who cause 100% of all unplanned pregnancies.
Debbo,
Are you saying sperm can create a baby without an egg?
Don’t dodge the question. It’s very clear.
Please explain in detail what you plan to do about the males who cause 100% of all unplanned pregnancies.
It’s late. I’ll read your detailed answer to my question tomorrow.
Your premise in the question is false.
Please re-state the question without any factual errors.
Jason continues to dodge a basic and crystal clear question.
Jason, please explain in detail what you plan to do about the males who cause 100% of all unplanned pregnancies.
I would also like to hear Jason’s answer.
The auscultation required by Dr. Nelson and his fellow medical practitioners does not produce an actual heartbeat. It is a modified and amplified representation of inaudible proto-cardiac activity in the fetus:
Not a real sound, but a technological construct.
So it’s not a fake heart beat. We just don’t have the technology to get the actual sound. It’s still pumping though which you can see with our current technology.
You might want to change the article title.
Does this expose that Rep. Dennert, Phil Jenson, Monroe, Russell, Howard, Brunner, Frye-Muller, Sue Peterson, Pischte, Weise and Sen. Nelson put their professional reputations onto a bill with a provision that isn’t even real? It’s as if these folks are blinded by petitioning the Lord for a cheap trip to Heaven by cursing women’s rights. Who’s behind this blasphemy? The Bishop? TV preachers? Kristi Noem’s success by using anti-women’s issues to get elected?
Jesus knows when you’re trying to pull a fast one on the voters. Shame Shame, Double Shame, Triple Shame on every last one of you!
Jason is (again) anthropomorphizing a fetus. It’s not a heartbeat. It’s the precursor to a heartbeat. A fetus is no more a child than a tadpole is a frog.
Jason. If a fetus is already a baby, is a pregnant woman already a mother? Analyze that question and a thinking person will realize that a fetus doesn’t become a baby until it’s born, at which time God blesses it with a soul (the true determination of a human life).
Your premise in the question is false.
Jason, are you suggesting turkey basters aren’t male? Don’t they look like a penile projection which males have? Are you being a wise guy?
Do you want to argue what constitutes male anatomy?
O, we’re still waiting. Would anyone else like to hear Jason’s answer?
Jason, please explain in detail what you plan to do about the males who cause 100% of all unplanned pregnancies.
debbo wants to blame men for everything she views as negative, as she proves again here. Even women who voluntarily have unprotected sex and later wish to eliminate the consequences of their actions are innocent victims of men in debbo’s mind. She must really not think females are capable of making informed, adult decisions about their own bodies. Ironic.
Anybody got stats on what percentage of pregnancies are the result of non consensual sex? From my quick googling, there are over 6.5 million pregnancies each year in the US. Of those, approximately 25,000-32,000 are the result of non consensual sex. That number is way too high! It should be zero! But it still represents less than one-half of one percent of all pregnancies. That sort of makes it sound like men and women voluntarily and jointly “cause” the overwhelming majority of pregnancies.
debbo, here is a basic and crystal clear question for you: do you believe men and women should be treated as equals?
Two dodgers now, Ryan and Jason.
Tell me boys, what do you plan to do about the males who cause 100% of all unplanned pregnancies?
It’s a basic and crystal clear question. 😁
Ryan and Jason … You two boys are so in over your head. Good luck … well not really. #MysoginistMayhem
Ryan, how many of those 32k acts of non-consensual pregnancies were impregnated by women?
Let’s see if you can answer the question w/o taking the long way around the barn and blaming or accusing Debbo.
Wrong Again Porter – you first. Hashtags are for teenage girls, you fart-sniffing lemming. You seem like the type who is scared of water deep enough to be over your head. I am not. I can swim.
Debbo – You call me a dodger before any question was even posed to me, huh? Seems unreasonable, which is very consistent with your normal behavior.
But, since now I have been asked your question which contains a glaring error in its premise, here is my answer. “What what do you plan to do about the males who cause 100% of all unplanned pregnancies?” My answer is nothing. I plan to do nothing about any unplanned pregnancies because zero of them are under my onus of control or concern. I control my gametes and I encourage everyone to do the same. 99.99% of pregnant people took the calculated risk to engage in intercourse and they get what they get. I wish more people took responsibility for their actions, I really do.
Finally, debbo, your calculation of 100% must then include the pregnancy of the virgin mary, no? Is it your opinion that your god who impregnated mary is a male? Or do you think that she was sleeping around on joseph and then just really stuck to her story when she got busted or what? I guess god could be male, if he existed. Doesn’t the bible give preference to males as the superior gender? I could be wrong, I don’t believe in that stuff, but you do, right? Or no? I can never tell what you believe based on your words and actions because they are often very contradictory…hmm…like…hypocritical even. More consistency from debbo.
Feel free to stop dodging my question, debbo. Whenever you climb down off your pedestal, of course.
Oooooooo, Ryan. My, my, my …..
Thank you, porter. I think I nailed it, too.
Shoot, I should have said:
“Sharona!”
Haha. Genius.
Let’s not forget the women that rape men and get pregnant.
Jason, good observation. That reduces the number even more so than the immaculate conception. Certainly less than 100% even if debbo is granted her incorrect presumption of “cause.”
I wonder how billions of moms would feel about debbo telling them that the biological fathers of their children were 100% responsible for creating their kids. Pretty big understatement of motherhood in my opinion.
I’m guessing they would tell Debbo to go climb a tree.
Or if Ryan wanted to get off in fantasy land he could have said- my,my,my,my, my work is so hard bring me water I’m thirsty my.my,my my work is so hard.
Back to the bat cave lads. You are making fools of yer selves some more.
Thanks for playing, mike! I’ll see your five dollars worth of Unintelligible Ramblings and raise you three pesos worth of It Probably Didn’t Matter Anyway.
Ryan, don’t be obtuse; you are conflating consent for intercourse to consent for conception — they are not the same.
It seems like we agree on the need for better education and more free access (especially through health insurance) for contraceptives? Wouldn’t that be a great way to promote responsibility?
Almost half — 45% — of pregnancies in the US are unintended.
BTW, if serious about reducing the abortion rate: Publicly funded family planning services help women avoid pregnancies they do not want and plan pregnancies they do want. In 2014, these services helped women avoid two million unintended pregnancies, which would likely have resulted in 900,000 unplanned births and nearly 700,000 abortions. https://www.guttmacher.org/report/contraceptive-needs-and-services-2014-update
o, I believe I agree with your goals and the methods of achieving them you mention. However, I don’t think I conflated anything; review the thread and find that I’m merely responding to debbo’s idiotic question.
o, in reading your comment again, I think you may be conflating consent with purpose. Sex may lead to conception. All sexually active people are responsible for the results of their consensual sex. If a person consents to sex they consent to the possibility of conception. Ask every booty call currently paying child support.
Conception may not have been the purpose, but it is not removable from consent to sex.
Ryan, I will go all Jason on you:
Please explain how repeated personal attacks against debbo advance or support a single position you express?
bcb – the purpose for each comment varies. Most of the time the purpose is exclusively to challenge a specific comment made by debbo that I reference in my comment. Same reasons anybody has for calling out hypocrisy and prejudice when they see it on here or anywhere else. Bigots unchallenged are dangerous. I also may need to defend myself against your definition of personal attacks.
She says anything she wants about whoever she wants, so I think it’s fair to expect pushback in kind.
If a bigot feels insulted when called a bigot, is the bigot the victim nowadays?
BCB,
Let’s discuss the personal attacks on this board and by who.
Care to guess which “side” wins?
So Ryan was able to answer my question, while Jason continues to dodge. Oh Jason? Please explain in detail what you plan to do about the males who cause 100% of all unplanned pregnancies.
Ryan dear, I don’t respond to ranters such as yourself. You’ve usually struggle to deal with any comments which might be construed to threaten your sense of masculinity on DFP. Yet the other men here don’t seem to have a similar reaction at all.
You respond with invectives and negative characterizations of the commenter (me), while making all sorts of random and unfounded claims about my inner processes, things of which you know nothing.
It’s very curious. Why do you think you react that way?
Thanks Ryan. I guess I just don’t see how personal attacks against a speaker relate in any way to the merit of what that speaker has said. Someone with whatever terrible characteristics and history you can imagine has the capacity to make an accurate statement or observation, just as the most pure among us has the capacity to make incorrect or unsound statements.
On the other hand, I suppose the idea of ignoring whatever topic is being discussed and, instead, labeling another speaker as a hypocrite or prejudiced person can make one feel better about himself somehow. I think I have done this on occasion too, but as I reflect on such an approach, I think that for me, anyway, it might not be the most persuasive or intelligent use of my comments, and that such an approach has a greater potential for harm than help.
I do try to call out obvious lies and factual mistakes, but I that doesn’t mean I have to label the speaker. That seems better left to the judgment of the reader.
I typically enjoy your comments, Ryan, as many give me food for thought. When you attack debbo, however, your attacks distract from and undermine my ability to recognize the merit of your corresponding substantive comments, if any.
And Jason, for the foregoing reasons I decline your invitation for the discussion you now propose. I see no benefit to anyone in such a discussion.
Of course you do BCB.
I expected nothing less.
Then why did you ask Jason?
bcb – my disgust with most of humanity often exposes itself through overreactions to the ignorance of people whose minds I know I will never be able to change or relate to. I’m bothered to a terrible degree that some people even get to exist and bring down the level of average human competence so I try to share that feeling of being bothered with those I feel are responsible. That’s the bottom line.
I asked BCB because I give everyone a chance to debate me. Most choose not to because they know they will lose.
I am not afraid to debate anyone.
debbo, you repeatedly attempt to make my calling out your bull crap about my “sense of masculinity” but that’s just a diversion tactic. You aren’t the victim you pretend to be. You are a bully.
Most bullies, once challenged, crumple up like a paper cup. You are crumpling now by refusing to answer my basic and crystal clear question about gender equality after proudly prancing your sexist question all about.
Why do I do what I do? Moral obligation. Why do you hate men you’ve never interacted with?
Just got home from the Mensa meeting with Mexican food and tequilla. Glad I missed Ryan’s show tonight. Wow!!
Great Porter.
Let’s discuss how women rape men and get pregnant.
Ryan, here’s a clue for you: The men who comment here don’t come unglued at the mention of gender issues. Only you. Why don’t you ask them why they don’t? You don’t hear what I say, so ask the men here.
Go ahead. Ask them why they don’t get so upset like you do.
Debbo,
Why did you lie when you said women don’t rape men and become pregnant?
Shut up, Jason. Let’s discuss combining downhill ski racking skis with drone technology.
In the meantime, the point I, and women across the nation are making is, it takes two to make an unplanned pregnancy. It never happens without male participation.
Planned pregnancies happen via IVF and other medical procedures, but planned pregnancies are almost never aborted except in extremely rare cases involving the health and safety of the mother or fetus(es).
Therefore, if we are a truly egalitarian society, it is incumbent upon us to act to regulate the reproductive life of the male of the species along with the female. In fact, I would argue that the male is probably in greater need of reproductive regulation since males can procreate at a greater rate than females.
So, how shall we regulate the reproductive lives of males? Or, if we are not, then we should not regulate the reproductive lives of females either.
It’s not complicated. Its equality.
Jason, why do you make stuff up?
Debbo,
Nobody except you is saying it doesn’t take two to make a baby. You are saying it is 100% of the males making the baby which is biologically false. There is no baby without an egg from the woman.
I’m guessing you don’t think women can rape men. Am I correct Debbo?
Porter,
Can you bump that thread when I first started posting here teaching you about science and global warming?
Debbo,
In answer to your question about why most men here and men in general don’t get wound up in these type of discussions is that most men are secure in who they are and what their sex means.
I don’t have to debate you or any other woman to establish my masculinity and the responsibility that comes with it. My dad taught me that nearly sixty years ago and it has served me well.
I don’t have any idea how women think or how they view life, nor do I want to know, the mystery of a woman is what makes them magical.
I’ve known debbo for a number of years now, mostly through Dakota Free Press, and yet I don’t know all there is to know about her. I like that.
What I have learned in this long life of mine is that a woman’s body is hers, nobody has a right to make any kind of decision that affects her body or her life, the Constitution supports me on that thinking.
debbo asks “What do you plan to do about the males who cause 100% of all unplanned pregnancies?”
Other than some distracting digressions, Ryan had a reasonable answer, albeit for the wrong reasons. He said he would do nothing, but incorrectly challenged the premise that men cause all unplanned pregnancies.
debbo’s premise is correct because absent males, there cannot be any pregnancy, planned or unplanned. Nothing in the premise implies that males are the sole cause, and every event, including pregnancy, is caused by multiple discreet factors – i.e. emergence allows for many possibilities from the core theory of being. Remove any single factor and the result will change.
Ryan’s direct answer “nothing” seems reasonable because the issue is termination of a pregnancy, whether planned or unplanned, not prevention of a pregnancy. Once there is a pregnancy there is literally nothing that can be done to the males who are a factor in the cause of the pregnancy that can change anything about the pregnancy.
As for prevention of unwanted pregnancies, males could be required by law to use birth control unless the woman affirmatively consented to no birth control. Of course this still would not prevent the need for abortions due to noncompliance with the rule, birth control failure, changed minds during a desired pregnancy, or adverse medical developments during pregnancy.
Just fer you, Ry old buddy- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmZdvVnMXCc Chain Gang by the late, great Sam Cooke.
Probably wouldn’t matter to white supremacysts.
Some people need to work on their reading comprehension. I call out prejudicial and hypocritical b.s. because it is morally disgusting to me. You can disagree with me, fine, but I believe in equality for all races and genders. Call me a white supremacists or misogynist or any other catchy words you want, but the truth is I advocate for equality. Calling me a white supremacist just because I picked on your bigot friend trivializes the terrible actions of actual racists.
Defend your friends if you want to, just realize that you are defending people you like rather than opinions you agree with, and that is the beginning of tyranny. The suggestion that my distaste for hypocrites is due to some issue with my masculinity is yet another a childish ploy to undermine my opinions. I am very comfortable with who I am, and my masculinity is just one of many pieces of what makes me me. Same with my race. Same with my age. Same with my ancestry. Same with my career. These tiny factors add up to who I am. They are really not that important in defining me. Some of you whom I challenge are much, much more concerned with race, gender, and masculinity than I am.
Again – I support equality. I call out people who don’t support equality. If you are so entrenched in your defense of bigots that you don’t see that they are bigots, you are missing something. You missing something is your problem, not mine. If you need to assign to me traits that I have not displayed to feel good about disagreeing with me, good for you. Feel free to scour my comments and look for anything I have said that suggests I actually believe the things you accuse me of.
Or don’t. Just continue to make groundless accusations and be a part of the dumbing-down of this great country. Up to you.
Dear Debbo Hater, You are too full of yourself. Show me where I called YOU a white supremacyst. Show me where I even suggested you are a white supremacyst. Figures you can’t. Run along and hate on Debbo some more.
mike, show me where I accused you of calling me a white “supremacyst.”
Figures, more nothing from mike.
Waddle along and kiss more arse.
Call me a white supremacists or misogynist or any other catchy words you want, but the truth is I advo
Liar. Figures. Nothing more from the Debbo Hater.
mike, i can’t tell if you are being thick on purpose. Just like YOU didn’t call ME a white supremacyst, I didn’t accuse YOU of calling me anything. We both suggested things, but neither said them.
I don’t know enough about debbo to be a debbo hater, but I am certainly not a debbo liker.
Reflecting on my early a.m. post regarding debbo’s question about what to do about males causing pregnancies, this dense reader experienced an epiphany. Reading Ryan’s comments this morning confirmed a surprising result of my epiphany. debbo and Ryan are making essentially an identical argument. For those as dense as I am, let me explain.
To answer debbo’s inquiry I suggested that society could make it a crime for males to engage in unprotected sex absent a female’s consent. Upon reflection, this suggestion discriminates on the basis of sex, which although permissible in the past is no longer permissible. To avoid unlawful discrimination such a law would have to apply to both males and females.
This idea, in turn, made me think about the actual effect of the proposed sonogram law. To avoid illegal discrimination it would have to impose the same obligations on everyone, both males and females. Since males cannot get pregnant, however, the law imposes an obligation on only females, despite its misleading facial neutrality.
It is settled in our jurisprudence that if a law, although neutral on its face, restricts or affects only one sex, that constitutes illegal discrimination on the basis of sex. Hence, the proposed sonogram law runs afoul of our prohibition against sex discrimination.
As a matter of reality, it appears that all laws restricting the rights of pregnant people (which can only be women) are equally invalid because they, in effect, result in actual discrimination based on sex. Try as I might, can think of no other laws that result in the complete disparate treatment of only one sex.
In years past, we have had many such laws, but we have changed each and every one in an effort to avoid unlawful discrimination based on sex. The only flatly discriminatory laws that remain, and are frequently proposed by anti-choice groups, seem to be laws restricting the rights of pregnant women. All other U.S. laws seem to apply to both sexes by actually affecting the rights and behavior of both sexes. If I have overlooked any other laws that result in discriminating against only the rights of one sex, please point out my mistake.
And the coolest part of this analysis is that in light of Ryan’s latest declaration of his fealty to equal treatment under the law, he and debbo appear to be in full agreement. debbo opposes laws that restrict only the rights of pregnant women and Ryan insists on equal treatment under the law. Go figure!
I really feel Debbo’s frustration in this discussion. I see Ryan’s point about shared responsibility for conception — it take two to tango; but I feel like responsibility in that context is too limiting. Post-conception the responsibility is in NO way equal. It reminds me of the story of a pig and a chicken discussing breakfast for the farmer, the chicken says it is responsible for providing the eggs, the pig says it is committed to providing the bacon. I want to backward engineer responsibility based on the level of commitment post-conception.
SB7 puts all the responsibility, all the commitment on the woman. (which I think also agrees with bear’s thinking above).
Poor little me can’t get past it takes two to tangle and shared responsibility. Their is no shared responsibility in rape or incest. It gets more complicated in gang rapes.
And, as I found out today, there are complications that can set admitted sexual assault perps free that have nothing to do with that person’s guilt or innocence and has nothing to do with actions of the alleged victim.
Amazing and disgusting! https://www.thedailybeast.com/admitted-child-sexual-abuser-walks-free-after-prosecutor-allegedly-arrives-to-court-drunk-report
btw the county attorney was arrested again for driving drunk with her daughter in the vehicle
Ry, buddy, I think you are being thick on purpose. I will let it go at that, Debbo Hater. Yer branded now, fella.
bcb – you are correct that some of debbo’s goals and my goals are the same, but I don’t believe for a second that she believes in equality. The reason she won’t answer my basic and crystal clear question of whether she believes in gender equality is because she hates men – or most men – and doesn’t even try to hide it. She doesn’t think men should be treated as regally as women, because white men are bad victimizers and all women are good, innocent folk. She doesn’t recognize nuance or gray area, just like she presumes all democrats are good and all republicans are bad. She tries to be smart and play “gotcha!” games and thinks she is super slick, but then can’t answer a simple question that most people would find quite easy.
As I said, I understand that my comments are not popular because some people on here like debbo, but I think her comments are ignorant at best and wildly racist and sexist at worst. I don’t mind being unpopular for calling her out. Somebody has to, or she’ll keep on thinking she’s above everyone else.
mike, suggesting i hate debbo is not at all insulting to me, so brand away.
BCB, your analysis is exactly right. My objection is that these laws only target women while irresponsible or criminal male sexual activity is frequently lauded, encourage or lightly punished.
What you miss Ryan, what you blast past in your rage and insecurity, is that my issue is not with males. It’s with the white male dominant culture and its damaging effects on this nation. I’m not claiming every outgrowth of white male privilege is a negative, the fact that it exists in and of itself subverts the equality you claim to support.
White male culture has been good for the USA in some ways, very bad in others. American Indians, in addition to others, can attest to that.
I understand the difference between most men and the damaging effects of white male privilege and culture. I know that most men are not that culture, recognize the unfairness of their privilege and work in ways large and small to reduce that privilege and bring actual equality a little closer.
Do you understand the difference?
“Man hater” is an old trope used against suffragists in the 19th century and has followed women who fight for their rights ever since. Hence, it’s not offensive. It puts me in honored company.
Ryan said, “she’ll keep thinking she’s above everyone else.”
Uppity women. Can’t have that.
Debbo, I don’t care what is between your legs. You making this about your gender is a symptom of your overall thought process. Uppity people are disgusting, male or female. I don’t call you out because of who you are, but because of what you say. This recent post is your best attempt to segregate your hate for all men from hate for just bad men. I like to think it is due to my calling you out. Your welcome, world.
Thank you, Mr. Ryan.
Gotta love grudz, man.
Okay, I give up. Once you make a decision, you hang onto it despite any other information from anyone– Mike, O, BCB, Roger. It always comes back to the woman for you, especially in the form of me. So be it. Bye until your next explosion.
Debbno, I regret that male insecurity and hostility so frequently targets you. You are far from uppity; you just happen to be one of the few female voices to speak up here, and that apparently gives some male commenters an excuse to get off topic and give you guff.
Your female perspective helps you see the white male privilege that makes people like Stace Nelson and Al Novstrup think that it’s perfectly fine for them to tell your doctor what to say to you and what medical procedures to carry out on you but that you’re way out of line to talk back to them for intruding on your autonomy.
Hear, hear Cory. Debbo threatens some. Empowers more.
You are all enabling a racist and sexist fool by playing along with her woe-is-me baloney that any of the “guff” she receives is due to her gender.
I can’t be more clear – I don’t care what gender anybody on here is. I think men and women should be treated equally. I call debbo out for her words, not her biology. Same as I call out numerous others on here when they are bigots. Males and females both.
Nobody is at all curious why debbo had all the confidence in the world when she was asking her silly question and calling me and jason dodgers for not playing her word games, and then refuses to answer a simple question about gender equality? Almost like you don’t care what she says or does, you’ll defend her regardless because she is “on your side.” Seems sketchy, folks. Seems like nepotism.
Wow, Ryan! You defenders of “White Male Victimhood” need a symbol. Anyone have suggestions for a proper image? Maybe Pepe the Frog? Maybe a MAGA cap? Maybe a burning cross and a white hood?
~ Remember Libs, White Male Victimhood gave us President Trump. (As Kurt Angle would say, “It’s true. It’s true”.) ⚔
PS … Who on DFP talks about themselves more than Ryan talks about himself? Must be lonely just sitting home alone, surrounded by his own gaseous emissions. heh HEH ho
So Debbo won’t go out with Ryan and he figures he can trash her here at DFP, which the Pompatus of Pablum guesses stands for ‘Dating For Putzes.
You don’t like Debbo. We got that. Move on and stop attacking every post she makes.
porter and mike…fellas, your lack of independent thought is clear, you don’t need to be redundant.
porter, do you think I voted for trump? you would be incorrect. do you think only actual victims should stand up to bullies or might there be non-victim allies (like me) who want bigots challenged? You are on the wrong side of civil rights, buddy.
mike, please continue your ironic and hypocritical attacks on all my posts. While your behavior conflicts with what you request of me, I usually enjoy trying to “read” your broken english gobble-de-gook.
Ryan, in my judgment debbo’s comments are usually powerful, intelligent, comments that are well worth defending. But to clarify, my posts criticizing your attacks on debbo were not intended to defend her comments in any way.
Your response that you think you should call out comments that you believe are inappropriate made perfect sense to me. Many folks here do the same, including me. In fact, that is pretty much what I tried to do by encouraging you to address the merits of debbo’s comments rather than post what seemed to me to be personal, unrelated, attacks on her character.
I now question whether the original intent of the attacking comments was to simply point out what you see as hypocrisy or racism. A comment with that intent does not need to be endlessly repeated. Following up with repetitive attacks, however, suggest that there is some different motive. Once you have given your opinion that someone’s comment might have characteristics you find distasteful, it seems unnecessary to repeat that opinion over and over and over again, absent some other driving motive – perhaps even an unconscious motive that you, yourself, have not considered.
If there is an underlying motive is to hurt or psychologically damage another poster, then your repetitive attacks might be a logical method of accomplishing that goal. Otherwise not so much. I could be wrong, but you don’t strike me as someone who would seek to intentionally hurt anyone.
And as I initially tried to point out, repetitive attacks on a poster weaken, rather than strengthen, the merits of any position on the merits of an issue (at least from my perspective, which to be honest, may not be all that important to you or anyone else). Anyway, that is my take on this ongoing saga for what it is worth.
Nearly everyday on the comment section of DFP someone makes a comment that is racist or bigoted, but when was the last time you heard Ryan or Jason “call out” a white male for his prejudice or discriminatory remarks against a woman or a minority.
Ryan claims to be the champion of equality and yet he feels the freedom to attack one of the few women that posts here on DFP, there are times that Ryan goes on the attack against debbo without reading or comprehending her comment.
When was the last time Ryan found any common ground with debbo?
Not quite on topic, https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/gutting-obamacare-judge-reed-oconnor-handed-texas-win-wasnt-first-time/
This judge, picked for his ideological qualities, has come through for Texas and wingnut policies numerous times as his record shows.
This is the quality of judge Drumpf and wingnuts are stacking the federal judiciary with life time appointees. Now you begin to see what a difference cheating wingnuts made when they blocked Obama’s Scotus appointment, the gentleman basically hand picked by Whorin’ Orrin Hatch for Obama.
Roger, First, I have called out more men on this blog for prejudicial comments than women. Second, I have called out several women other than debbo. I have indeed agreed with debbo on more than one post. This is what I have been saying. Some people like debbo, so they make it about debbo, but to me she is just one bully in a sea of bullies. She is just the commenter who receives the most “protection” from her henchmen. Just like a female trump, immune to reality due to yes-men.
bcb – the reason i have to keep repeating myself is because any time I point out debbo’s prejudices, people defend her without recognizing the content of her words. I absolutely value your input in every conversation, but I admit I think you have picked the wrong horse in this conversation. You don’t think that a person should call out prejudice once and then sit quietly and let their comments fall on deaf ears, do you? I don’t think any progress would be made in civil rights if that was the appropriate response to prejudice. I also don’t think my “attacks” on debbo are as personal and unrelated to the topic as people suggest. I actually believe the opposite – anything I have said that could be offensive to debbo is directly related to the hypocrisy I am calling out or the racism or sexism she supports.
White Male Victimhood ~ exhibit A
Ryan uses the words “I” or “me” fifteen times in one post but still thinks he’s the one on the stinky side of the poop stick. It’s white male privilege, young man. Expecting everyone to play by your rules (when only white males are allowed to) isn’t enlightened thinking. It’s WMV (white male victimhood) and it needs to be denounced ad nauseum.
bcb points out and states his position more eloquently than i ever imagined me doing, but we have maybe the same idea. There seems to be another motive for Ryan to constantly attack one female poster.
Debbo does not need me or anyone else to defend her. She has not asked me or anyone else, that I know of, for help. And, for the record, I do not always get involved, but it seems to me, Ryan comes down hard on Debbo without sufficient, or any provocation. This will hopefully be my last word on this subject.
MFI … Ryan will come around to the right side of history. Some cultures are less perceptive to reality than others. Ryan lives in a protected environment where his viewpoint isn’t ridiculed like it is almost everywhere else in USA. He’ll flip. They all do, eventually. Until then … one vote is one vote. No more or no less.
Porter, you know less about my environment and the frequency with which my viewpoint is ridiculed than would be necessary to make that comment. You are a mouthpiece without a brainpiece. You should be embarrassed.
What will I flip to? Thinking that men and women should not be treated equally? Thinking that people should be judged based on skin color? I will certainly not flip to “your” side if you and debbo share those beliefs. And what in the world are you talking about – people playing by my rules? You have obviously not been following along. All I am advocating for is equality. Maybe you care to answer my question that debbo dodged. Do you believe people should be treated equally regardless of gender or race?
Several years ago we had a regular commenter on DFP that masked his racism and prejudices behind the “I am for equality” mantra. He felt he could say any damn thing by saying he was for “equality” and then launch into a tirade explaining himself. When you called him on it he would say you were the one being sexist or racist.
Ryan can’t point to a time when he has even remotely agreed with debbo or when was the last time he called out a white man for being a white privileged SOB
Ryan isn’t the Martin Luther King of DFP, he is a southern preacher.l
debbo left DFP for a long period of time for being bullied by the likes of Ryan and a few others, I hope that doesn’t happen again. While I don’t always agree with her I always respect her opinions, often times simply because she is a woman.
debbo brings a valuable amount of experience and opinions to Dakota Free Press.
Ryan – For men and women to be treated equally (what we all want) men have to give up some because men start out with a built in advantage. White men even more of an advantage. You’re being dominant and misogynistic if you don’t agree.
Roger, i am not obligated to research your curiosities for you. As I said, I have agreed with debbo, and on more than one occasion – in writing even. If you want to find those threads, get to work, but I’m too busy to prove you wrong.
As for calling out a white man for being a “white privileged SOB” that is certainly not something I would do. Do you suggest I should be upset with somebody for the happenstance that they were born a white male? That seems dumb. If a person SAYS or DOES something I find problematic, I will call them out on it. I don’t think a person being a white male is reason to do so. Do you? A lot of the time on here, when people say and do dumb stuff, I don’t know their race or gender, so I don’t go out of my way to cherry-pick the people who need education – i am trully an equal opportunity b.s. caller-outer. Doubt me if you want, but your doubt doesn’t equal fact.
What exactly am I masking with my call for equality? I don’t see how somebody who advocates for equal treatment of all people despite differences in immutable characteristics is masking racism or sexism.
Porter – equal does not mean identical. Would you support women giving up their uteri because men don’t have them? That’s dumb.
Didn’t you have a father taught you this? You exist with a male advantage. That you can’t see that is proof you have it.
Enough. I’m about to call you a pig headed German and that (although true) won’t help.
Didn’t you have a Father around that taught you this? Men in American culture have a built in, unfair advantage over women. That you can’t see it is prove that it exists. Enough. I’m about to call you a pig headed German and even though it’s true, it won’t help get you to the center where you can grow.
Stay away from women, Ryan. You’re not worthy.
Hear! Hear! Porter, nothing much to add for the Ryan’s of the world.
“Women Beware”
Haha OK cupcakes, I’ll go easy on you and all the ladies. You convinced me to sit up on the pedestal with you and pity women for their terrible misfortune of being female. Congratulations for turning me crooked.
Well Ryan, why not? You ask this of Porter “Porter – equal does not mean identical. Would you support women giving up their uteri because men don’t have them? That’s dumb.” We are doing that with livestock, so why not? This is what Nelson and the ghouls want to do. Make sure that in their brave new world, they will not need potty bills because we will all be the same.
Three cows clomped, single-file, through a chute to line up for sonograms — ultrasound “preg checks” — to reveal if they were expecting calves next summer.
“Right now. This is exciting, right this minute,” animal geneticist Alison Van Eenennaam said as she waited for a tiny blob of a fetus to materialize on a laptop screen on a recent afternoon at the Beef Barn, part of the University of California at Davis’s sprawling agricultural facilities for teaching and research.
The cows had been implanted a month and a half earlier with embryos genetically edited to grow and look like males, regardless of their biological gender.”
“Gene-edited farm animals are coming. Will we eat them? Cutting-edge lab techniques could improve animal breeding, but society may not be ready” Washington Post 12/17/2018
They seem to want preg testing so they can manipulate the genders of those they force to undergo the preg test. Shame you into their will and then gene-edit your embryo. Science fiction? With this bunch of Frankenstein’s (Sara are you reading this?) nothing is out of bounds. The master race once again.
I support treating humans and livestock differently. I think Nelson’s bill is super dumb, along with all other silly barriers between women and access to top notch healthcare on their own terms.
cupcakes? Anybody else feels mortally wounded?
You seem to be making the argument for Nelson’s preg testing. Nelson and the ghouls want those embryo’s so they can change their makeup while you seem in agreement.
Sanford Health says this: “DNA. We all have heard of it — and probably learned how to say it in school, even if we can’t spell it (deoxyribonucleic acid). We all have it. And each of us has DNA so unique that no two of us share the same complete genetic code. Fifty percent from mom, 50 percent from dad, 100 percent you -– 100 percent individual.
With the discovery of DNA has come DNA testing, or genetic testing. The ability to genetic test has truly changed life, health and care. Rather than trying to guess what is going on, we can actually test to find out some of the answers. Maybe not all of the answers, but every day we get closer. Genetic testing helps find answers that can save – a person or possibly multiple people.” https://news.sanfordhealth.org/genetics/daring-to-discover-me-with-sanford-chip/?&utm_source=mediamath&utm_medium=native&utm_campaign=imagenetics-chip-2018&utm_content=ashley-headline-c
Nelson and the ghouls preg testing is something republicans drool over.
158 posts and we still have the fact that Men do not cause 100% of all unplanned pregnancies.
159 posts and we still have no justification for Stace Nelson to play doctor on my wife, or yours, or anyone else’s.
Isn’t it a doctor’s ethical responsibility to give all available information to the patient Cory?
“Arkansas’ ban is part of an anti-abortion campaign being orchestrated by states across the country. Already, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, and Kentucky have passed similar bans. But so far, every court to examine these laws has seen them for what they are — blatant attempts to ban abortion and prohibit physicians from using their best judgment in caring for their patients.
Arkansas is not alone in these efforts to obstruct abortion access. Kentucky has also attempted to ban D&E abortions. The Kentucky legislature also attempted to shut down the Commonwealth’s last abortion clinic without any medical justification, and passed a law mandating that women undergo a forced, medically unnecessary ultrasound prior to abortion, designed to shame them and stigmatize abortion care. We challenged that law too, and a federal court blocked it last year.”
https://www.aclu.org/blog/reproductive-freedom/abortion/arkansas-attempting-ban-safe-and-effective-abortion-method?fbclid=IwAR3DH0Sve66agPmWbDS-RU1OaP9oHL2Fw1JFakExVrt5ksr_6oarCvSfuaM
I just stopped by to drop this off here. Most of you fine gentlemen will find it interesting and educational. A few will probably feel threatened.
https://www.sheilakennedy.net/2018/12/speaking-of-fragile-masculinity/
I’m going back to read more about that pathetic farm bill.
I’m threatened by the cold wind from the speedy dodging of questions as it rattles my windows in their frames.
Shutters and boards, cover the windows, on the house where you used to live.
All you have now is a house full of sorrow since you started your silly thread. Thanks Audie Murphy
Put a shutter on the window Ryan. Happy first day of winter!!!
Stace anti abortion
Debbo what law for males responsible for 100% unplanned preg
Ryan Debbo is a man hater, man hater
Grdz hates Debbo Ryan gotta love Grdz
Medical professionals apparently recognize something that slips right by Sen. Nelson and 1 or 3 others here.
“It takes two people to make a baby.” The University of Washington is one testing forms of male birth control and supported by the NIH. They recognize that males are responsible for 100% of all unplanned pregnancies. (For those with limited reading comprehension, note the word “solely” prior to responsible does not appear, but the word “unplanned” does precede “pregnancies.)
One product is a gel to be rubbed on the shoulders or upper arms. It reduces sperm count but not sexual arousal or performance. Sperm count returns to normal 3-4 months after discontinuing. A side effect of this gel is weight gain, but mostly in muscle. I imagine some will look at that as a plus. It also caused zits in some who had heavy acne when they were young.
The other is a pill that reduces testosterone levels. There are no side effects, including none involving any changes in masculine characteristics, sexual desire or activity.
https://goo.gl/BZqHLu
Weight gain in muscle and zits has to be a steroid and will cause no end of problems for athletes of all levels and drug testing.
It won’t so a thing to prevent sexual assaults.
Excellent post, Debbo. An effective male birth control, as described above, would be embraced by thinking males, worldwide. As I can recall, before, during and after getting laid not getting pregnant was always in the middle of my mind. Eliminating that distraction would have been wonderful. It would have been the same mindset I’ve experienced since having a vasectomy. Not that having sex isn’t without serious emotional issues to be addressed but the physical penalty of an unwanted pregnancy would be highly mitigated.
Thinking males would also be an effective Trump control.
56% of white males support Trump. Probably higher in SD. More thinking is necessary.
https://www.google.com/search?q=what%20percent%20of%20white%20males%20support%20trump
Did you read the article Mike? It doesn’t mention steroids and I don’t think that’s the only thing that might have those side effects. I’m not positive though.
Here’s a comic titled “4000 Years of Abortion History.” It’s actual and factual.
https://goo.gl/xfV8vf
I did, Debbo. Progestin and testosterone are both steroids.
Okay. Thanks.
Here’s another educational bit for you gentlemen who really want to understand women better. Sen. Nelson, I really hope you’re taking advantage of this to get a better sense of your constituents. And yes indeed, I guarantee that you do have constituents who feel like this comic describes. Guarantee.
https://goo.gl/8hHWij
Blasey Ford and Anita Hill were more than believable as witnesses.
Male righteous indignation, in a mostly male setting, is too much to overcome. imho.
Abortion comic was interesting, but the Kavernmouth one was the best.
😄😄The Nib has lots of good comics.
Mike, I’d change this “Male righteous indignation” to this, “Male SELF-righteous indignation.”
You got it, girl.
Nelson isn’t anti-abortion, he and the goons are anti-woman, always have been. These guys could give a care about abortion, but the word gets those goof ball supporters all hyped up to the slobber point. What they know is that through their smoke screen, they really want to destroy women. https://www.wabe.org/maternal-mortality-georgia/
This report lists Georgia, but when you look at the map of maternal mortality, South Dakota is ranked right up there as well. The “sonogram bill” should be called the “Women Euthanasia Bill”. The short acronym would be WEB, so they can remember it. There, fixed it for them.
From the AP:
“Trump administration rules that allow more employers to opt out of providing women with no-cost birth control pose “potentially dire” financial and public health consequences for 13 states and Washington, D.C., a U.S. judge said in a decision blocking the rules from taking effect in those jurisdictions.
“Judge Haywood Gilliam on Sunday granted a request for a preliminary injunction, but limited his order to California, New York and the other plaintiffs before him. They sought to prevent the rules from taking effect Monday while a lawsuit against them moved forward.”
HOORAY!!!!!
I found this an interesting twist on the “person” and rights debate to be worth dipping back into the “right to life” discussion:
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/2/7/18215586/india-man-suing-parents-giving-birth-antinatalism-raphael-samuel