Abortion Waiting Periods Force Women to Suffer

North Carolina, like South Dakota, makes women wait 72 hours to get an abortion, for their own good. North Carolina at least does not compound the wait with South Dakota’s patronizing insult of forbidding women from getting abortions on weekends.

But one North Carolina woman’s painful experience illustrates why the 72-hour waiting period endangers women’s health. Sonia Loureiro was bleeding and in pain, but the state forced her to suffer unnecessarily for a week before getting the health care she needed:

Loureiro called the Duke Ryan Clinic expecting to make an appointment on Tuesday or Wednesday. She learned that she would have to wait 72 hours before having the procedure—one feature of a new law, The Women’s and Children’s Protection Act of 2015, passed by North Carolina’s Republican-controlled legislature just the month before, in December. “I did not know about that law,” she said. “I was upset about it—I couldn’t imagine waiting three more days in so much pain.”

…[W]eather forecasters called for snow later in the week, generally a disruptive event in central North Carolina: Schools close over flurries here, and predictions of when and how much can consume local news for days. By Thursday morning, the day before her abortion was scheduled, shoppers were emptying grocery shelves and the roads were striped with brine. While arranging payment over the phone with the clinic’s billing department, Loureiro overheard the scheduling nurse’s voice. “Tell her we’ll be closed for inclement weather,” she recalls the nurse saying. Loureiro had to reschedule for the following Tuesday, turning an increasingly painful and worried 72 hours into seven days of agony [Belle Boggs, “‘Scary and Absurd’,” Slate, 2016.06.16].

North Carolina’s and South Dakota’s 72-hour waiting periods for abortion don’t protect women. They punish women.


79 Responses to Abortion Waiting Periods Force Women to Suffer

  1. I think punishing women is the entire point of those laws. You do the crime (sex), you do the time (child rearing).

  2. Bob Newland

    “North Carolina’s and South Dakota’s 72-hour waiting periods for abortion don’t protect women. They punish women.”

    I agree with ACB. That was exactly the point.

  3. BIll DIthmer

    It is mind rape.

    The Blindman

  4. Sure, 72 hrs is needed because, up to that point, the woman really hasn’t thought about what she is about to do. Really?? Right, ABC, just say “no”, put an aspirin between your legs, don’t wear that sexy outfit,… Anything else you’d like to tell the woman? You want to “punish” her? How about the father? Tell you what! You do what you think is right and leave other folks alone! You never know their situation!

  5. Stace Nelson

    Life begins at conception.

    Too many affordable, reliable, birth control methods available to even list.

    Way past due to end this evil practice.

  6. Does life not begin with birth? That’s when we begin the calculation of how old a person is.

    Do fetuses have the constitutional right to possess guns? How about 5 year olds? What age does the 2nd amendment kick in? Is that age calculated from conception or from birth?

  7. My life began at birth.

  8. Steve Sibson

    “Do fetuses have the constitutional right to possess guns? ”

    If they did and could, that would be the end of abortions.

  9. What age do 2nd amendment rights kick in Mr. Sibson?

  10. BIll DIthmer

    Then what imhearing from you Stace is that you personally will pay for that pregnancy, and find a good home for the then born baby?

    Without that guarantee your argument rings hollow. But then what else could be expected from the party of war.

    War is god
    War is good
    Let us thank all the defense contractors for our existence

    Control from embryo to grave. First make sure the pregnancy isn’t terminated. Then educate as little as you can to make followers not leaders. Then send em off to war.

    Did I leave something out? What will you do when the women are finally fed up?

    Trans penile probe sounds like something a mob of adjetated women might use after the treatment they have been given.

    Ladies, its time to stand up and kick these men where you can get their attention. There are many of us on your side but it has to be you, the women of this country that finish this fight. No vagina, no vote in the issue.

    The Blindman

  11. I’ve got Nelson and Sibson running scared from my questions they are unable/afraid to answer. Semper Bye!

  12. Steve Sibson

    I gave the appropriate answer to your jokes already Rorschach. And if that 2 year had an AR15, it would have been a dead alligator and mommy and daddy would be coming home with new boots.

  13. mike from iowa

    Toddlers kill themselves and others- not gators or gayhaters.

  14. mike from iowa

    I have it from an NRA high mucky-muck that gator chose that beach because it was a gun free zone.

  15. Stace Nelson

    @Bill Dithmer I’ve supported and helped garner $$$$ for a Catholic orphanage in Northern Vietnam for the last 11 years. If my defending the lives of innocent babies makes me responsible for them? Does that mean liberal’s who oppose the death penalty for terrorists and heinous murderers mean you liberal’s should be picking up the tab for those murderers for the rest of their lives?

    Hmmmmm! Disarmed innocent people and eugenics? Where have we witnessed that before?

  16. Bill Dithmer

    Except I’m for the death penalty.i could care less that you help those orphans, thats your right to do so. Good for you. Meanwhile there are kids in this country waiting for adoption, why are we even having this conversation? If you were for real you would have found adoptive parents for every one of those kids.

    i see you are trying to change the subject instead of giving me a yes or no. How political of you.

    The Blindman

  17. Roger Cornelius

    Stace Nelson and unsuccessful blogger Steve Sibson can put an end to abortions by not having one. I vow to support their decision.

  18. Steve Sibson

    “If you were for real you would have found adoptive parents for every one of those kids.”

    Instead of going on Medicaid, have everyone pay for their own healthcare Bill. If you want welfare for others, then you and the rest of your fellow social justice bullies have to fund it all.

  19. mike from iowa

    Sibby-show me one time a 2 year old killed a gator and one big enough to make 2 pairs of boots out of.

  20. Bill Dithmer

    Apples and oranges Sibby. If we go your way, zero abortions, we expand government by continuing to fund those that were born but not wanted or cared for.i keep hearing that the churches of the country will step in for these kids that nobody wants.

    Just another reason I will never trust a preacher, priest, cleric, or rabbi. If these people are real, they are still just middlemen. If there is a god, I dont think she would need an inturpretor to get her point across.

    The Blindman

  21. bearcreekbat

    Assuming for the sake of argument that the unborn should have the same rights as born people, what gives the unborn the right to use another person’s body against her will?

    If you argue that using the woman’s body against her will is needed to make sure the unborn survives, then why can’t any of us use another’s body against his or her will when we need their body parts to survive. If I need a kidney transplant to live, then should I have the right to force Stace or Sibby to give up one of theirs to save my life? If not, please explain why an unborn “person” should be able to use the law to force a woman to give up her own bodily integrity?

    I have asked this questions countless times on DFP, yet for some reason no one wants to answer it. The lack of any intelligent response seems very telling.

  22. Mr Nelson, please do list the sooooo many affordable birth control(s) that are sooooo available to women right now? We’ll wait. One of the most convenient AND affordable ways to get birth control is/was through Planned Parenthood. Sadly, the GOP is continuing to cut funding to Planned Parenthood. Also, for women to receive birth control, it must be prescribed by a doctor. Obviously, this takes a trip to the doctor ($$$) and then the added cost of the birth control ($$$). Health insurance is great to have to help with this….but GOP has been bucking this quite a bit, and specifically, in many circles, the birth control portion of health care. Despite what you think or what you’ve been told, many many women/families can’t afford this.

    I always see that you talk about freedoms and liberty loving, and you fight for that. Why does your belief stop with women having the say-so when it comes to their bodies? Why do you want limited government, but want to push YOUR gov’t right into the womb of a woman?

    I stand up and applaud the $$ you are donating to an orphanage in North Vietnam. That is great. Hopefully you would be willing to help the families here that can’t financially take care of a newborn, that they were forced to bear because of strict abortion laws that continue to be enacted in “freedom – less government” America.

    Isn’t it odd that women have a mandated 72 hour waiting period for an abortion…..yet, you can buy a gun in this country that can spray multiple bullets in a matter of seconds, without blinking an eye? Now which stance is pro-life?

    I could go on, but I think Bill Dithmer has the stage tonight. Very important and FACTUAL points you are making Bill. Thank you!

  23. Stace Nelson

    @Dana P Celibacy costs $0. I 100% support a woman’s right to decide if and who she has sex with; however, after she makes that decision and conceives a child? I 100% support the right to life of that unique human being.

  24. Bill Dithmer

    ” Dana P Celibacy costs $0. I 100% support a woman’s right to decide if and who she has sex with; however, after she makes that decision and conceives a child? I 100% support the right to life of that unique human being.”

    There, did you hear that? 100% support, right up until the time of birth. It isn’t just a coincidence that happens to be the same time those moms need help.

    Where the hell does that 100% support go when a baby is born? Tell me, is it like a new car? Does it start to depreciate as soon as it leaves the uterus? How much support are you willing to give once they are born, 10, 20, 50%.

    We wouldnt even be having this discussion if the words you are saying were true. But they arent so here we are again. I get the same feeling when I hear a coach tell someone they need to give 110%. You know thats not even a possibility, and yet there is a certain percentage of people that will still fall for that and other lines.

    Dana, thankyou. I am still the biggest supporter of womens rights you women have, but its not ever going to be enough.

    It has never been the men, that would me, that ever had a shot at breaking the chains that continue to hinder womens reproductive health and freedom . The only ones that can do that have vaginas.

    You need women like my mom to lead the fight. She was advised not to have me because of what might have been. No she didnt have me aborted. If she had the world would have gotten along quite well without little old me. After my Dad died when I was two, mom became a single mom with three kids and a ranch to run. Think of her as Red Forman with permanent PMS. If a man would have tried to force her to do anything, they were risking her foot in their rectum.

    It wont happen any other way, the women just have to take the power over their bodies back from the fundamentalist wankers. This is the type of woman you will need to get er down.

    Dana, this has never about saving babies, its about power, nothing more.

    The Blindman

  25. How many women hold public office? How many women have the time, money and public support & resources to even run for public office so they could introduce laws? You know we are all just home, washing those dishes and changing those diapers so the men can go about their business and do all the important stuff (I am not down-playing the IMPORTANCE of home-making–I am one, myself)!!!!!. But, my point is taken as to what do women’s numbers look like realistically, when women actually do pick up the fight and run for office?? How many women are in Pierre? Or, Washington, D.C.? Yay, you say, we women should take care of this issue of abortion. The last time I checked, men out-number women in public office and they introduce and pass the laws that we all have to follow and live by. We as women CAN put the pressure on legislative bodies to vote for abortion. But, if congress has made up their mind; the law stands. I will never vote for a man or woman running for public office that will not support women to choose to have an abortion or not to have an abortion. It is very personal. I have 3 daughters. We have the death penalty in South Dakota. Few take issue with that. There are countless issues that integrate with abortion such as rape, incest, and now we have the Zika Virus with the mosquitos and it’s a hard push to get Washington, D.C. congressional do-nothings for funding in this country to protect the unborn from Zika — but let’s force women to have these babies anyway. Are you anti-abortionists going to pay for it all? For the life of that child?? You say “you have to have that baby” but “by-god, don’t you ask me to pay for any increased welfare or healthcare or special education”!!! If my anger could show itself, this whole page would bleed red. We are so far from equality, it is not even funny. I just won’t go there as there is too much I could say and this blog isn’t the place. I KNOW many men support women and their right to choose. Thank you, Thank you!!! You get full credit from me and my daughters!!! But, we are light years behind in true equality. That is really what we are talking about. Power, control, and party politics. We need public policy and leaders that will support women and their rights. I appreciate those that serve in the military and public office, both jobs require sacrifice. But, so often it is personal view that’s lobbied and the “public” part is left out both in the state and nationally when it comes to voting for abortion law. It is sensitive. It is one of the hot buttons during elections along with gun rights. Women will need to stay vigilant and elect those persons that support our rights and who strongly believe that women can contribute and make conscious and thoughtful decisions about their own life and body; without being crucified and ostracized by the religious right.

  26. Stace Nelson. If you had read the article and heard this woman’s story, you would have learned that she was on “reliable” birth control and got pregnant. No birth control is 100% effective, except abstinence. Which is the goal, right?

    And I second Dana’s comments about the “affordability” of contraception and how Planned Parenthood is a key resource for women in making contraception accessible to women.

    As the article shows, women getting abortions are real people with real, complicated lives, and these ridiculous and paternalistic policies which are intended to hamper their ability to access a LEGAL procedure have a real effect in these women and their families.

  27. I really don’t remember much about my own birth. However, logically my life had to begin at some point. I must have been alive before my memories caught up with me.

    Not that anyone cares, but I would agree with Sibson that the most logical starting point for life would be conception.

  28. Nelson is just more of the same crap we have seen and heard here for decades Roberta. Old fat perverts that just want to see your bedroom to then make judgement’s on your lifestyle. They all hate women and want them to suffer for standing their sorry asses up at prom or some other event where they thought themselves important. A vote for Nelson is a vote for Trump, they are cut from the same cloth. They put South Dakota backward. Instead of finding ways to improve our infrastructure to make life better here, they want to devote all their time to perversion, sick sick sick.

  29. Steve Sibson

    ” women getting abortions are real people ”

    And so are the babies that are sacrificed.

  30. Steve Sibson

    Does anyone have the statistic on the number of people killed by AR15s? We should compare than with the number of abortions. Then we can talk about what should be banned.

  31. Timoteo: there may be some logic to saying that life begins at conception. Clearly an embryo or fetus is an organism of some sort, though entirely dependent on the host organism for its survival. However, the “lifeyness” of a newly conceived embryo does not provide a complete and absolute answer to the legal question of who controls the womb and whether a woman can choose not to submit to the service of that lifey thing inside her.

  32. Steve, committing mass murder and ending a pregnancy are not the same thing. I reject your mingled debate burden.

  33. Oh Stace. Celibacy. Yes, of course. But let’s have some honesty here. That can’t and won’t happen all of the time and you know it. Not even close to being realistic. Your next argument? Still waiting for your numerous birth control (affordable, so forth) that you said were too many to list. You won’t list them because you can’t. You didn’t respond to my question about cost and healthcare and Planned Parenthood. You also didn’t respond to why you are a liberty lover, except for the case of women making their own decisions. Or even respond to what the initial part of this blog was about. Abortion laws punishing women. They are designed to punish and control women. No question.

    If Stace/GOP would spend half…….I’m begging for half, but I would take more….. just HALF of their “pro life” energy on promoting sex education, birth control (provide it, fund Planned Parenthood type organizations, make it legal to be OTC, etc) to help prevent an unwanted pregnancy in the first place, as they do for taking punitive action against women – it would automatically help reduce abortions or the need for them. Common sense! But GOP refuses to do that. They would rather go about things back-asswards, and exert their power over women. If I saw some common sense movement in preventing an unwanted pregnancy in the first place, I could take your “pro life” arguments alot more seriously. Otherwise, it just rings hollow.

    Michigan just passed a law that would punish someone who forces a woman to get an abortion. Hmmm, ok. Why don’t we punish lawmakers who force women to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term? Why don’t we punish lawmakers who are violating women’s privacy and their right to make decisions about their own body. oh that’s right, because that’s d-i-f-f-e-r-e-n-t. Sigh

  34. Bill Dithmer

    Yes Dana, like that.

    The Blindman

  35. Bill D….. I appreciate, more than you know, learning more about your “back story” and your fact based thoughts about women’s rights, abortion, etc. You are so right, and on point with what this blog post started as. Power, control, and punishing women.

    and like I said above, I could take the argument of “its about saving babies” a whole lot more seriously if their efforts, time, and taxpayers money wasn’t being spent doing exactly the opposite.

  36. mike from iowa

    Just wondering- if a female celibate gets pregnant from rape, is she still celibate?

    Last time I checked, Sibby, abortion is still legal and constitutionally protected. Mass murder, by an means, is not legal or protected.

  37. I’ll have you know that we catholic conservatives have a proud history of honoring pregnant female celibates, tyvm.

  38. Steve Sibson

    Mike, abortion is legalized mass murder. Gun owners are not the vigilantes, Planned Parenthood is. A statement that could get be banned from the “community”.

  39. Bill Dithmer

    Steve is ready to step up to the plate foor his faith. He sounds like he’s ready for the RRT.

    The Blindman

  40. mike from iowa

    Dicta- Proud Mary wasn’t Catholic. Was she still considered celibate? I hope this comes up in court someday.

  41. One can only hope.

  42. mike from iowa

    Somedays it is nice to have you around, Sibby. You make the majority of us seem nice and normal.

  43. Stace Nelson

    @BCB So? Illegal squatters have legal rights but a baby someone willingly conceives doesn’t? We are talking about killing a baby, about ripping it limb for limb because someone is unconvinced and doesn’t like the choices they made to have a baby. Many of you liberal’s will go to war over an unwanted puppy being abused, but an unwanted baby? Many of you claim to support minorities; however, the founder of Planned Parenthood was a racist and supporter of eugenics. It is not happenstance that 80% of Planned Parenthood abortion clinics are in minority communities and target minorities.

    @Roberta please show me in the US Constitution where it’s my responsibility to take another citizens money and give it to someone else so they can buy birth control?

  44. If you want to be pragmatic about eliminating abortions, supporting access to contraceptives has to be a part of the conversation. I’m pro-life and absolutely, positively think you are 100% out to lunch if you can’t make this connection.

  45. mike from iowa

    Many of you claim to support minorities; however, the founder of Planned Parenthood was a racist and supporter of eugenics

    For about 15 minutes, like much of the US of A, It was a fad, a flash in the pan in history.

  46. mike from iowa

    Nelson- did you not take an oath to uphold the constitution of the United States of America? Or did your oath say you agree to uphold those parts you agree with?

  47. Steve Sibson

    To uphold the Constitution one would have to provide due process to all, including babies. So if a mother believes her child is causing problems, then let the child have its day in court. If the court agrees and believes the death penalty is the appropriate punishment, then the state should perform the execution, not the vigilantes of Planned Parenthood.

  48. mike from iowa

    To uphold the constitution, any victim of child molestation must be forced to face their molestors in court, or there is no due process for perverts.

  49. mike from iowa

    Let’s see how goofy we can get,Sibby.

  50. Steve Sibson

    My solution would end the abortion controversy. I suppose both signs would refuse it.

  51. Don Coyote

    @mfia: So in Iowegian years 15 minutes = 70 years? So do Iowegians calculate dog years differently?

  52. Bill Dithmer

    ” Roberta please show me in the US Constitution where it’s my responsibility to take another citizens money and give it to someone else so they can buy birth control?”

    There it is again, that thing about MONEY. Lets put this in a way you can understand.

    I dont like giving money to the government of these United States only to be given to a defense contractor to do what? Thats right, to keep the war current, keep the money flowing, and keep the citizens on edge. Oh ya, there is that pesky thing, you know, all those dead bodies.

    I dont like contributing money from taxes to keep the country of Isreal safe when they continue to spy, lie, and yet beg for another 1.5 billion this year from us, US. Honestly, the Soviet Union has been a better world neighbor then Isreal. At least they spy in the open. Isnt it time for Isreal to leave the nest? Are we indebted to this country so much we have to be on permanent playground patrol that is the middle east and get ivolved either economically or militarily. Isreal hasn’t been about a religion for a long time, its about a little country with nukes that has a big apatite for our money, our money. Its about a spoiled little breast hanger of a country that wants to pick a fight so that we, the US can stay involved.

    How about the money this country spends so that everyone can have cheaper gas? If not for the cost of military action in the middle east the price of a gallon of gas would be over $15. Now we are exporting oil but we will continue to subsidize the petrolatum industry to the tune of $12 bucks a gallon to protect their oil. It is and has always been like that where oil is concerned. Its like the oil companies have their own private security firm that just happen to have the most advanced weapons on earth, and they dont have to pay one cent. In fact they are “subsidized.” There has always been something smelly about the relationship that our petrol companies have with defense contractors, arent you just a little bit curious what that relationship actually is?

    I dont like the war on drugs. First because it was a bad joke that wouldnt die, and then there is that thing again, thats right the money bomb. Super prisons would have never been needed if the war on drugs had never been. But then, its about the money to be made by someone, not about drugs.

    Dont get your panties in a bunch, my bitch is almost over.

    Now we find out that some moron from Idaho has proposed a bill that gives the states millians of acres to then give control to someone else for, wait for it, MONEY.! Those federal lands have been paid for by us, that means US. I resent even the emplcation that someone could get control of land set aside for its citizens in perpituity.

    I’ll stop for now, but the talk about abortion has been brought into perspective when Stace started to to cross the bridge that connects the people that control your tax money. These people treat that money like it is their own, funding political power when that is an option. Or giving it to a friend in return for future profits. None of the rest of us, US will ever see any of that money. In fact the only time we will see that cash is when we donate it through our taxes, WTF.

    Thats enough for now. Stace, you cant even get your own bulls— to stick to the wall, maybe you should give some thought as to why that is.

    The Blindman

  53. mike from iowa

    Blindman,someday I hope you open up and tell DFP how you really see and feel about the goings on in America.

  54. bearcreekbat

    Stace, you didn’t answer my inquiry. Assuming that the unborn should have all the rights of the living, how does that give the unborn the additional right to use a living woman’s body against her will?

  55. BIll DIthmer

    MFI. Nobody needs to read the regurgitated undigested redundancy that is my view. That post would be a book.

    The Blindman

  56. (rolls eyes) I am forever in awe the amount of time men spend debating what a woman can do with her vagina, it’s legal get over it. The 72 hour wait is ludacrious, are there 72 hour wait periods for vascectomies? Meanwhile, Chicago is a slaughter house, massacreing child and families, and we turn our heads. Ask the mothers of the thalidomide babies if taking would have been a better option for the hell some of their babies endured or continue to endure,… Yep , but let’s keep governing the woman’s legal choice…..,cannot control the massacres so let’s make sure we spend time and money controlling legal choices. Time well spent (not)

  57. Saying it like it is, Blindman! Exactly. But whoa is Stace to—- a) answer a direct question without regurgitating b.s. propaganda rhetoric— b) offer a solution. a bonafide solution.

    Money and power. Your money “list” is extensive and accurate, and you are right, you could go on. But how about the millions and millons of taxpayer dollars spent on “abstinence only” programs? How bout that? Look no further than Sarah Palin’s daughter (Bristol) who has made a bunch of money being the so-called poster child for abstinence only – yet, has gotten pregnant, TWICE, out of wedlock. Family values! Abstinence works!

    Stace —- you continue to lecture all of us that you hate taxpayer dollars going into pockets of people that shouldn’t have it/that is wasteful. The only thing that “works” on the abstinence only program is making people alot of money doing something that isn’t working. The joke is on the American taxpayer as far as that goes. Use that money to provide birth control, and my goodness, what a change.

    I understand that you don’t like or care for abortion. I understand that, Stace, and that is fine. But you appear to be unwilling to try to work to improve or work on this issue. You just use political rhetoric (Eugenics, race, limb from limb, etc) I just don’t get that. That tells me you don’t have an answer. Punishing and controlling women isn’t the answer. If your only weapon is a hammer, you are going to see each and every problem as a nail.

    Still waiting on that extensive list of reliable and affordable birth control that you said was too much to list. (because it was more than likely just bloviating on your part – and you don’t have such a “list”) You want less government, but you want more government when it comes to this issue. Still waiting as to why you think increased government (which you don’t like) in women and their doctors’ decisions is best. And how about health insurance, when it comes to birth control? Still waiting. And…..bearcreekbat is still waiting for an answer.

  58. T….. your eye rolling and your post is perfect. You are right. It makes absolutely no sense, no sense at all.

  59. Steve Sibson

    “how does that give the unborn the additional right to use a living woman’s body against her will?”

    It is not an additional right, it is the same right to life that we all have, unless it is taken away after a hearing that provides due process. Anything less is vigilantism.

  60. Vingilantism is the practice of taking the law into ones own hands and acting without legal authority. Abortions, while morally abhorrent to me, are allowed under the law and thus cannot be vigilantism. In other words: I don’t think you understand what vigilantism is.

  61. BIll DIthmer

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  62. Steve Sibson

    “I don’t think you understand what vigilantism is.”

    There is legal and there is lawful. Do you know the difference? Abortion is legalized murder, just like corny capitalism is legalized corruption.

  63. mike from iowa

    Dicta, I see you have encountered the resident religious cuckoo bird. Hope you have had the bird flu shot.

  64. Of course, but the difference between the two is irrelevant in this context. A vigilante takes the law into their own hands, frequently breaking laws, based on their concept of right vs. wrong. People conducting abortions are not taking the law into their own hands when the law explicitly allows what they are doing. The fact you are so married to the term is bizarre.

  65. All residents of South Dakota are neo-nazis because they have skin on their heads.

    You see how you can produce ridiculous descriptions of people when you bend terms to suit your agenda?

  66. Steve Sibson

    “the law explicitly allows what they are doing”

    The law that I am referring to is the due process requirement of the 14th Amendment. You cannot lawfully kill another human. Only the state can due that via the death penalty after the requirements of due process has been fulfilled. Legal abortions still violate that law. My solution is to “explicitly” put that law into the legal system and stop the vigilantism that is going on in abortion mills.

  67. I suspect you know the history of the common law born alive rule and subsequent state statutes regarding feiticide versus abortion and what constitutes a person for the purposes of legal rights and protections, so I won’t rehash the clear case law that undermines the argument you very clearly are making in bad faith. I’m with you on the morality of abortions, but you are wrong about the legal argument and you have to know it.

  68. bearcreekbat

    Sibby has a point, but it is in the wrong direction. Due process limits actions of the government, not private individuals. Even if the unborn has a right to due process, that right limits what the government can forcibly do to the unborn, but not what the woman or her medical team can do to the unborn. A woman and her doctor are not part of the government and hence cannot be limited or controlled in any way by the Due Process Clause.

    And Sibby, of all people, seems to think there is no such concept as justifiable homicide. Sibby, weren’t you arguing to the legislature just a few short years ago that we needed a law allowing you to kill anyone unlawfully on your property? And I doubt that you would think you have no right to defend your body with deadly force to stop another’s unwanted intrusion on or into your body.

    So we are back to square one on my question: Assuming that the unborn should have all the rights of the living, how does that give the unborn the additional right to use a living woman’s body against her will?

  69. Steve Sibson

    “Due process is the legal requirement that the state must respect all legal rights that are owed to a person.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_process

    The government is not respecting the rights of babies by allowing abortions.

    Your analogy to the stand your ground laws would only be applicable in cases that involved situations where the child is putting the mother in immediate danger. The stand your ground laws does not allow one to kill a person in your home or vehicle simply because they are inconvenient.

  70. Steve Sibson

    “And I doubt that you would think you have no right to defend your body with deadly force to stop another’s unwanted intrusion on or into your body.”

    And you should also consider that a baby has a right not to have its limbs ripped off its body. That is not a special right.

    We need the courts to weigh which right (the mother or the child) carries more weight based on each case, and then apply due process. What I am proposing is not an abortion ban. So why are you against the idea? Don’t you believe in justice? Or do you insist on the mother having more rights than both the child and the father, because the biology is not acceptable? Biology does not allow woman and men to be the same, and thereby violates the “equality” worldview of the Neo-Marxist socialist. I have already read comments by Cory saying that special rights are to granted to blacks.

    My argument is more in line with equal justice than what you will find in an abortion mill where the rights of the baby are zero.

  71. Blindman, interesting idea. But do men have to wait 72 hours to make a decision on their purchase? And will they be mandated to receive counseling from an anti-vasectomy group? And will a doctor be mandated to read medical information to the purchaser, that has been proven by the medical community to be a big fat lie? And what if a woman is forcing them to make this purchase? And will they be forced to have a medical procedure (ultrasound) that is unnecessary and not prescribed by a doctor?

  72. mike from iowa

    No brainer,Sibby. Until the fetus can get a job and support itself outside the womb, the courts will agree the mother’s wishes take priority over anything you want. You have zero standing in any court.

  73. At 22:47, Stace shows the right-wing’s real agenda: impose celibacy on women. At 09:20 he shows the GOP strategy to deny women birth control, demonizing one of the best providers of birth control and other liberating women’s health care with wild accusations that have nothing to do with the fundamental rights at stake. If I waved my magic wand, dissolved Planned Parenthood, and conjured an absolutely saintly provider of affordable birth control, Stace would find some other argument to delegitimize that provider.

  74. Steve, for me to take seriously your claim that abortion is murder, I need to hear you, the Family Heritage Alliance, Concerned Women for America, and the GOP advocate life sentences as punishment for women who abort/murder their fetuses. Are you game?

  75. I’m also eagerly awaiting an answer to bearcreekbat’s question.

  76. Roger Cornelius

    Stace is so predictable, it is election time in South Dakota so he needs to raise his two favorite issues, the 2nd Amendment and abortion.
    He contends he wants to fight republican corruption in his party, but we don’t hear a lot of conversation on that point coming from him, do we?
    The 2nd Amendment and abortion are perpetual fights and most likely always will be.
    Come on Stace, tell South Dakotans how you are going to improve the state if you are elected.

  77. Steve Sibson

    I answered BCB question. The right to life is universal and not special. That right can be taken away if one is causing undue harm to another human.

    Cory, I am asking you if you would support due process instead of a ban on abortion. If a woman can prove the child is causing undue harm to her, then seek the death penalty.

  78. (Grabs sandwich, also waiting) Agree with Roger, “how you going to improve the state”? What about how current nuclear waiste law. How are you going to and when, change that law to a citizens vote? ..or no waste period, ever……..
    Equality for minorities and women? ….Agriculture and/or destitute area college credits, vocational training? you need to think about the future, one of these days the religious old white women who fall for the abortion vote will be dead… As well as the politicians who have careered campaigned on this sole issue….in the meantime..,,,,how has this helped SD evolve into a prosperous yet safe state to live in, how has this helped to become a viable state, while maintaining the quality of life of rural living for people accustomed to living here….. ? ?

  79. What utter crap, Steve. What utter crap. Men don’t have to undergo due process and prove their sperm are causing them undue harm to have a vasectomy.

    You have not answered BCB’s question directly: if your life depends on my body, must I submit my body to your service? I take it your answer is that the right to life is absolute, so yes, you can commandeer my kidney? (I think we’ve had this discussion before.)

    You’re also not answering my fundamental question: why no death penalty or life sentence for women aborting their fetuses?

    T, I do appreciate your question about how abortion absolutism has done anything to improve the quality of life in South Dakota. Waiting periods and other restrictions on women’s health care only make life harder for South Dakota women, just like the North Carolina woman in the original post.